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Sacramento Kings acquiring Robin Lopez, but will waive him

No other deadline moves for the Kings.
By | 166 Comments | Feb 8, 2024

Feb 3, 2024; Dallas, Texas, USA; Milwaukee Bucks center Robin Lopez (42) warms up before the game between the Dallas Mavericks and the Milwaukee Bucks at the American Airlines Center. Mandatory Credit: Jerome Miron-USA TODAY Sports

Well, shit.

The NBA trade deadline has passed, and the Kings big move was…[checks notes]…acquiring Robin Lopez only to waive him. But hey! At least the Kings got some cash!

I am truly at a loss right now. I don’t know how the front office can look at this roster and how they’ve performed this season and think “yes, this is fine”. The Kings gambled on continuity in the offseason, and the results have been underwhelming. The record is good, sure, but the West has gotten tougher and the Kings have not. If the season ended today, the Kings would be in the Play-In. Do you trust the Kings to step up and win a play-in game? I certainly don’t. Not when the Kings just lost a game to the Detroit Pistons in the exact same manner that they’ve lost multiple “should-win” games all season long.

The only good thing to come of this is Robin Lopez, who has now been acquired by the Kings only to be immediately cut for the second time in his career:

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jwalker1395
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February 8, 2024 12:38 pm

that’ll move the needle!

TImorous_Me
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February 8, 2024 12:45 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

Nancy Reagan wouldn’t approve of the direction of the needle, though.

SexyNapear
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February 8, 2024 1:37 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

I’d actually take the corpse of Robin Lopez over some of the Kings on this roster right now

Mike120
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February 8, 2024 4:20 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

I’d take the corpse of Nancy Reagan

AnybodyButBagley
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February 8, 2024 9:31 pm
Reply to  Mike120

Having boundaries is a healthy thing.

nolookpass432
February 8, 2024 12:45 pm

Well, that’s something…I guess

no-sense
1951
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February 8, 2024 2:13 pm
Reply to  nolookpass432

comment image

Ralph_Furleys_Tailor
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February 9, 2024 12:42 am
Reply to  1951

I think this is perfect trade deadline for this team.

Their best player takes too many mental nights off. No max player should have lost to the Pistons, Hornets and a undermanned Pacers team. The regular b*tch slapping they take from the Pelicans doesn’t augur well for their playoff future.

Keegan is a Sacramento 9, but a South Beach 6, and I still think he tops out at multi-year starter, but never an all-star…which is nice, but not my choice for a 4th pick.
Monk walking
Barnes on his last decent contract.
Red Velvet = Buddy with a superior nick name.
Davion. Zero trade value.

When all is said and done Fox will be the most lamentable draft pick in the Sacramento era. Not because he is a bad person, nor because he is a bad player, but because of all the things we didn’t do believing that he is something he is not. Couldn’t fit with Luka, didn’t fit with Hali, and before long this will be looked at as the deadline we should’ve moved him.
I get it, I know, it’s hard to believe that, but I just don’t seeing us getting over the hump with him…unless your idea of the mountain top is bounced in the second round.
Someone please tell me what Fox’s stat lines is since that report came out about him turning down the extension, because I bet it is awful.

Haiku time

Fox trot not so clutch
much love for breaking drought years
weeping purple tears

Its been a minute since my last comment. Much love to the Herald staff and board regulars.

kings4ever
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February 9, 2024 6:41 am

I give this a thumbs up for the creativity related to the Haiku, everything re: Fox is misinformed, borderline comedy, and trollish.

Does Fox fit with Domas? You left out that relationship. Fox not fitting with Luka is a hypothetical. Fox didn’t fit with Haliburton but he wasn’t suppose to. We drafted Haliburton as BPA and talent upgrade to a talent deficient team.

Nab BPA and figure it out later, that was the unspoken plan. McGenius figured it out later when he traded for the Walking Triple Double Machine, a virtual heist, the trade that was poo-pooed around these parts with exception of myself and a few stragglers.

Does Fox have a weakness? Yes, I would say so. He’s a little too dependent on external versus internal motivation and certain standards independent of the opponent. Domas busts his ass regardless if its the Pistons or the Cavs.

Why did it take the assistant coach, after the Heat game, for example, to challenge Fox to be more locked in defensively? We’ve seen the uptick, the 11 steals over 2 games, the increase in the number of deflections.

A wholly internally motivated player, think of Black Mamba in his prime, or Giannis, or Domas, say 95% (internal) versus 5% (external) vs a more externally motivated player like Fox, say 75% (internal) versus 25% (external) does not need to the elite opponent or the special circumstances of the one point game with 5 minutes to go to manifest his best. The motor and effort and execution is relatively constant. No so with Fox.

This is a good and bad thing and why fans are making a mistake when the extrapolate because we have had so many bad losses our season is doomed.

In the grand scheme, Fox is better than last year (three pointers and disruptuive D). Domas is better with two functional thumbs. What we really need now that NO trade help is coming is the best version of Kevin, HB and an accelerated actualized version of Keegan, all peaking about the right time to get out of the 1st Round, regardless of the opponent.

The coaching staff needs to be better too, instead of benching their best or second best defender (Keegan) while Jaden Ivery goes off for 37 points.

Bluejohn
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February 9, 2024 5:15 pm

Love the last line of your haiku……..Weeping Purple Tears…..My twitter handle which I hardly ever used is…….BadKingsDreams

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
February 8, 2024 12:46 pm

Serious question: Is this franchise committed to winning?

What is the plan going forward? They hope to make the playoffs again, which is looking like a difficult task, then go into the offseason with what…the same damn roster and hoping to retain Monk?

If the Kings make the playoffs, their draft pick goes to ATL and frees up future obligations. Maybe they can keep Monk on a discount and make a move in the offseason via trade to bolster the roster. That is the best case scenario.

A more likely scenario, IMO, is they miss the playoffs, keep the late lottery pick in a shitty draft, all while the pick obligations get kicked down the road. The Kings enter the offseason capped out, with no assets, and Monk walks for money well deserved. The Kings roll is back with the same starting five and patchwork bench of fringe NBA players and a rookie with limited upside.

Monte has put it all on making the playoffs this year.

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Hobby916
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February 8, 2024 12:49 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

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aplumley
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February 8, 2024 12:53 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Walk yourself away from the ledge. There simply weren’t any moves to be made. The team has been erratic, but mostly good. Monte isn’t making desperate moves, he’s making opportunistic ones.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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February 8, 2024 1:15 pm
Reply to  Greg

I was just about to say the same.

jwalker1395
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February 8, 2024 1:17 pm
Reply to  Greg

Kelly Olynyk/Agbaji, Grant Williams, and Xavier Tillman were all guys that got moved for a price that I thought was worth paying

KANGZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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February 8, 2024 1:35 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

I can’t believe that Agbaji move. That would’ve been great for the kings. Would give us something to look forward towards development besides Keegan

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 2:04 pm

Seriously? Would you have a given up a 1st for him? I wouldn’t and I really like Agbaji.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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February 8, 2024 2:18 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

They gave up the worse of OKC or Clippers pick. That’s likely around #28 in a crappy draft. Agbaji was a lottery pick and still looks like a solid two way prospect.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 3:47 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Like I said, I like Agbaji as a two-way contributor and think he’d be great coming off the bench, but IMO he isn’t worth the Kings FRP (the Kings would’ve had to trade their 2026 FRP because the 2024 FRP is going to ATL. The SAC 2026 FRP is worth more than the LAC/OKC 2024 FRP that UTA received).

jwalker1395
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February 8, 2024 2:34 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

A late first for a solid bench contributor at a position of need (Olynyk) and a prospective 3&D wing is pretty tremendous value imo

WizsSox
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February 8, 2024 3:55 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

That’s great…the Kings don’t have a late first to offer currently. So what then?

Bluejohn
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February 9, 2024 5:25 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Not an Agbaji fan but the price alone for Olynyk was worth paying. Of course if the FO had been looking at him we wouldn’t have been the party with interest. Still swe would have had a shot at a player I believe would have added skill at the margins. Would they have taken both JaVale & Len and whatever else we would have to been added to make the trade work.

Uh…….probably not

SelecaoKOJ
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February 8, 2024 11:32 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

The Funny Thing is The Kings drafted Tillman in 2020. for Robert Woodard. A guy that’s not even in the league anymore.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 2:10 pm
Reply to  Greg

Simply making moves doesn’t equate to success. Seems like you’re suffering from FOMO rather than upset that the Kings couldn’t improve because the two examples provided wouldn’t have moved the needle in the slightest.

I’m frustrated they didn’t improve too, but there wasn’t single deal out there today that I look at and say “Damn, that would’ve really helped the Kings.” The Kings couldn’t compete with NYK’s offer for OG and they were never really in the running for Pascal. The rest of the TDL was minor changes on the edges.

aplumley
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February 8, 2024 2:35 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Exactly. Short sighted bad moves is pre-McNair stuff. Missing out on fringe moves ain’t anything to get mad about. McNair’s philosophy has been to remain flexible and be opportunistic.

SelecaoKOJ
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February 8, 2024 11:35 pm
Reply to  Greg

I Would not say Keegan is a core piece at all. Not on a contending team. Cmon. A guy that has scored 20 pts total in the last 4 games is a core piece. Sure his D has improved greatly. But calling this guy core or a two way player is a joke. Has next to zero creation skills. On top of that. That is funny though,

rockbottom
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February 9, 2024 8:34 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

Compare his 2 year to OG or Pega . Better in most ways including winning . Ask Bulls how they feel about Markenton now . Patience

kings4ever
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February 9, 2024 7:27 am
Reply to  Greg

You don’t think our GM knows this, the reigning GM of the Year? If a fringe move was worthy of being made, it would have been made.

It is an insult to presume that the GM who turned the franchise around from laughingstock to 48 wins is somehow or for some inexplicable reason “asleep at the wheel”.

This was the ludicrous assertion from a significant portion of the fan base before he traded for Domas. That was not a GM asleep at the wheel, it was a GM biding his time, waiting to pounce like a rattler when the right opportunity presented itself.

We probably had an offer of Kevin, Davion and a protected future pick for Kuzma (or Caruso). Or maybe substitute pending UFA Monk in the place of Kevin.

Why should we give more than that? I am not going to criticize the GM because he lost self-control and reason and overpaid in a move that would become regretabble, with the same critics eager to pounce for the exorbinant price.

Hobby916
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February 8, 2024 3:03 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Royce would slot in as the 8th best player on the team behind Fox, Huerter, Barnes, Murray, Domas, Monk, Lyles. His minutes would be better for the team than Davion, Javale, Kessler, Duarte, on and on.

That being said, he wouldn’t have made the Kings a top 4 team, but they would have solidified their top 8 rotation to be more competitive.

The price for him is probably what Monte did not want to pay, or maybe Brooklyn did not like the package the Kings may have had. We will probably never know.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 4:15 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

They traded 3 SRPs for O’Neale which is too rich for me, he’d be the 8th-10th player in the rotation at 31yrs old on an expiring contract.

There is one exception, if the Kings could’ve traded Mitchell and Duarte for O’Neale, I’d have been ecstatic just to get off their contracts, but Brooklyn would never do that trade as they wanted the draft capital they got.

Would rather keep those assets (3 SRPs) in the chamber for another move or to actually draft players with as the Kings will be cap-constrained in the next 2-3 years once Keegan is off his rookie contract and extended to whatever max offer good players coming off their 1st contracts are getting.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 3:40 pm
Reply to  Greg

I didn’t say irrational and my mention of FOMO was not intended as a slight. You’ve made it clear you think there should’ve been moves made and you seem rather upset that nothing took place hence my use of the term.

I disagree that the two targets mentioned would’ve made a difference at all because the problem the Kings have is with their starting lineup leaning too heavily toward the offensive side, not with the bench play (SAC is 10th in bench scoring per game). Maybe O’Neale and McDermott filled specific holes for those other playoff teams, but they’ve wouldn’t have fixed the Kings defensive problems in the starting lineup which is what MM seems to have been attempting to do.

There is nothing that indicates that other teams had any desire for what the Kings were offering so I didn’t expect anything to happen unless the Kings massively overpaid which I was against them doing. They didn’t make any moves but the season didn’t end today so I don’t see what all the hand-wringing is about.

murraytant
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February 9, 2024 12:37 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

O’Neil may start in Phoenix with Allen off the bench.
Suns have rebounding with Nurkik and 3 scorers. Would O’Neil displace HB to the bench? but not the same- Kings don’t have 3 consistent scorers and HB is not expected to provide boost for bench.
O’Neil would have been 3rd guy off bench in Sac

aplumley
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February 8, 2024 2:32 pm
Reply to  Greg

If you think Royce O’Neale or Douggie McBuckets would’ve put the team over the top, then I see why you’re mad. I’m not.

ForKingsandCountry
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February 8, 2024 2:38 pm
Reply to  aplumley

There’s a difference between “put them over the top” and “make sure they make the playoffs”. This team wasn’t close to a contender regardless of what they did today. That said, they are currently a play-in team with a very tough schedule and zero guarantee they’re making the playoffs. I would have preferred they tried to secure a playoff spot this season.

BeTheBall
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February 9, 2024 8:33 am

Yeah, I don’t see any realistic trade out there changes them into instant title contenders. This team is going to need a “leveled upgrade” type of building to get there. Improving the current 2nd unit is a big first step toward that, and a Royce O’Neale or Tyus Jones type of move begins that process.

kings4ever
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February 9, 2024 7:18 am
Reply to  Greg

Adding Doug McDermott would be a terrible signal and message to Sasha, who seems to be getting more comfortable. You create friction in your locker room in pursuit of the potential of minor incremental improvement.

Royce O’Neale is shooting 39% this season. Hes the game changer? LOL.

SelecaoKOJ
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February 8, 2024 11:30 pm
Reply to  aplumley

I think you’re giving in to that in Monte We Trust verbiage. Opportunistic? Sac will never ever be A FA destination. The only way the Kings can truly improve exponentially is Number one, The Draft. Check OKC, Memphis, Hous, and Minny for Reference.

Monte is Not Pat Riley or Danny Ainge. He can’t even do their laundry. He made one trade. A lateral one where both the Kings and Pacers both benefited. Outside of that? He drafted Keegan. What else has he done: A rag tag of Duerte, Mcgee(LOL), Mitchell, that dude from Europe(Who I told everyone would not work out), Resigning Barnes, Who was past his prime 2 years ago. Now that contract is an albatross.

Opportunity in the Summer? Kings are not going to be more appealing in July than they are in Feb.

Kings don’t have a wealth of assets like a lot of other teams. Pels, Grizz, Knicks, Houston and OKC are going to load up on FA. Tons of Picks (First Rounders) and a lot more young and appealing prospects.

I am really at a loss why this Monte guy gets the same type of hype than GM’s who are clearly far superior. I Guess achieving a playoff berth for the first time in 16 years. Makes the guy, the next Pat Riley. Except one small detail. Riles can find diamonds in the rough and evaluate talent. Not sure Monte has that skill.

What did Monte do last summer:

Signed: Jalen Slawson, Colby Jones, Keon Ellis, Nerlens Noel, Neemais Queta, Mcgee. Every single one of those players are no better than G league or washed like Noel and Mcgee

2022: Quinn Cook, Bazemore, Okpala, Delladova, Moneke, All G league or out of the league.

Prior to 2022. Monte signed a bunch of G league prospect and players way past their prime.Mudiay, Terry, Coleman, Stewart, Murkey, Jefferson, Thompson, Harkless, Davis, Holmes, Silva, Metu, Robinson, Woodard, Kaminsky, Jefferson, Whiteside

So, Since Sept 2020.

Haliburton for Sabonis: Lateral Trade.
Signed Lyles(Bench) Averages 7 ppg (Servicable Rotation Player, Below Avg)
Signed Monk(6th Man)
Traded for Huerter.(Huerter is a below average starter) 11ppg on 44.9 shooting.
Resigned: Fox and Sabonis(Great)
Resigned Barnes(Not So Smart)
Signed Len to a long term contract(Sits on the Bench)

If you ask me that’s about a C. He’s made one great lateral trade and the Monk acquisition was his best pick up.

rockbottom
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February 9, 2024 8:43 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

Sadly, I am forced to admit you are correct on most points . May be time for a bit more scrutiny instead of my fanboy optimism .

discocricket
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February 8, 2024 12:59 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It seems like the Front Office is “happy to be here”, and perhaps really scared of falling backwards.

TheGrantNapear
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February 8, 2024 1:06 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Goodness Adam, take a chill pill. Perhaps there were no legitimate moves to be made.
This is still one of the best teams in the West. Let the season play out and go from there. With the right matchup in the first round, we can win ourselves a playoff series.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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February 8, 2024 1:14 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I just pointed out the two pathways going forward. Making the playoffs vs. not making the playoffs and what may become. IMO, the most likely path is them not making the playoffs which will result in a difficult situation this summer. A lot of it has to do with the pick obligations to ATL and Monk’s future.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 2:16 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

How is the most likely scenario the one where a bunch of things would need to change before it could become true?

The most likely scenario is that things continue going the way they’ve gone, with the Kings making the playoffs outright as the 5th or 6th seed and winning/losing in the 1st round will almost entirely be dependent on the matchups.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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February 8, 2024 2:24 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

They are currently the 7th seed and are about to have the hardest 10 game stretch of the season.

Most likely is not 5th or 6th seed.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 3:10 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

They are still basically in same place as before last night (as they fell from 5th to 7th and are a half game back from being in 5th again) and this with Kings not playing well. If they even play average for the rest of the year, they climb the rankings, if not, they’ll remain in the 2nd tier of teams in the West (behind the top 4 and grouped with NO & PHX).

WizsSox
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February 8, 2024 4:07 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I agree with many takes you’ve had on the board today NorCal. The Kings are in the group of 5-8 likely. Of all the names moved today, had the Kings acquired one, the Kings would still be in that 5-8 range likely.

If the Kings get the 5/6…great. Are they beating either a 3/4 seed in the First round? Highly unlikely.

If they end up 7/8 and in the play in, they have to win one out of 2 games at home. If they do are they beating the 1-2 seed? Probably not. If they can’t win 1 of 2 home play in games and miss out, then what’s the opportunity lost besides playoff money and attendance? The West is different this year and they are not favored to win a first round series regardless of moves today unless something major happened, which seems far fetched.

If you want to contend about WHY they are in this middle 5-8 ground and that Monte screwed up somehow in getting this team there then fine I suppose. But not making a move today that likely would have no real consequence on the end result for this season (goal of winning a playoff series) doesn’t seem that tragic or a miss by the Front office in my book. Progress is not always linear and last I checked this team is having more success this year (STILL) than all but about 3-5 seasons in 40 years of Kings basketball.

MichaelMack
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February 8, 2024 6:00 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

Well reasoned and well said.

I never felt any of the names bandied about were ones I felt excited about, even with my being pretty disappointed in the vibe of the team this year.

I would much rather see what Keegan finishes the season like, if Sasha can be a rotation player, and see where they end up so they can make a significant move this summer, rather than marginal ones right now.

Bluejohn
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February 9, 2024 7:28 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

You could possibly be right or not. You think (and not entirely wrongly) but you don’t know anymore than any of us do. Play the games and let’s see how the won-loss record turns out.

Seemingly after the entirely ugly loss to Detroit and lack of movement at the trade deadline has turned the vibe of this thread and others into one with a negative view. I don’t care what anybody says or feels or reads their particular tea leaves but after the prior 16 seasons without a playoff I’m willing to give this team the latitude to compete as best they can and see where they end up.

Regardless they are not going to end up at or near the bottom of the standings. Take the break, win or lose as many games as they can and we will…..as we did last season……see what they and their competitors
do with the last 30% of the season.

For everyone posting here don’t turn your feelings or opinions into fact because neither you, I or anyone else has any fore knowledge of how the season is going to play out.

TheGrantNapear
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February 8, 2024 3:06 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

We’re currently tied for the 5-7 seed.
The teams below is I do not believe are better than us (lakers, duds, rockets, mavs, jazz).
I think we easily make the playoffs and a top 6 seed.
I also don’t think the suns and clips will win at their current pace. Injuries and rest will set in for those two teams as they eye the playoffs.

SelecaoKOJ
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February 8, 2024 11:40 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Clips are clearly better than the Kings. The CLips would sweep the KIngs in a series and it wouldn’t be close.Think you’re wearing those purple sunglasses like Leo BEas. Kawhi is Number one for MVP now. So, don’t keep on praying for him to sit.

BeTheBall
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February 9, 2024 8:47 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

I don’t think Kawhi’s sitting will be his choice. He’ll wind up injured at his current game pace.However, the Clippers have enough talent to maintain a top 3 seed for the rest of the season. That said, I think the Kings ultimately fall behind the Mavericks and the Lakers, but manage to stay ahead of the Jazz and keep the 9 spot. However, missing the postseason is also a distinct possibility if either Sabonis or Fox miss a couple weeks.

oshima9
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February 8, 2024 2:20 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Based upon what I’ve seen this year, the Kings aren’t one of the best teams in the West, and will be fortunate to avoid a play-in game.

SexyNapear
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February 8, 2024 1:38 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

This is what happens when none of your young assets has developed. They have zip to trade.

Biscuit
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February 8, 2024 2:12 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

Not true. Queta developed.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 2:24 pm
Reply to  Biscuit

Its a false argument in the first place, just because you don’t trade young developing players doesn’t mean that they aren’t improving; and if they truly are improving, you generally don’t want to trade them anyway.

Hobby916
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February 8, 2024 2:56 pm
Reply to  Biscuit

Queta has played 22 games with the Celtics, averaging 12.2mpg.

Developed from when he was drafted? Sure. Playing any meaningful minutes in the NBA? No

SelecaoKOJ
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February 8, 2024 11:41 pm
Reply to  Biscuit

I can name 50 that haven’t under Monte’s Watch. Check my post ahead.

Amonk81
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February 8, 2024 10:48 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

Bad on the young assets for sure. Bummer Monte missed. They do have some players-Hierter, Davion, Vez…you can trade I guess.

. I was baffled they essentially ran it back rather then pushing while the window is open.

They banked on individual improvements, which have happened, and Brown magically making the guys play physical D. Play D as a team.

I hope Monte sees what we don’t and the Kings figure it out second 1/2…Fox heals up….Brown adjust O and D…but I doubt if

kings4ever
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February 9, 2024 7:13 am
Reply to  Adamsite

A more likely scenario, IMO, is they miss the playoffs

Haha. The more likely scenario is we miss the playoffs? This post will not age well.

I am disappointed as anyone else we did not add Kuzma or Caruso or a fringe move to add defensive length and toughness. But unlike you I trust in our GM to be prudent and discerning and painstakingly patient if necessary.

I can guarantee you that if we coughed up two future firsts for Kuzma or Grant or Caruso, the likely asking price, you would be the first or among the first up in arms of the overpay.

We will make the Playoffs, probably as a 4 to 6 seed. We are too good to slip any lower than this. This post will age well, like most of my posts do.

Serious question: Is this franchise committed to winning?

Serious question: Are you commited to offering fair and reasonable and occassionally insightful commentary?

You cannot legtiimately critcize the reigning GM of the Year who constructed the team that won 48 games last year and would have advanced to Round 2, had Kevin and HB not choked, and if the coach played Davion over TD in Game 7 to prevent Curry from 50, without knowing the trade options that were present to him without coming off as buffoonish and hysterical.

It is true not all the fringe roster moves have worked (Duarte, Kessler, McGee), whereas the addition of Lyles worked spectacularly, but it is obviously the case that when you make moves like this you are at best betting on a 50/50 probability that you acquire an effective rotational player.

The GM not would disclose even privately that the addition of a player like McGee or Duarte would undoubtedly be bountfiul. All he is doing is betting on probabilities and opportunity costs relative to other options. A lot of the end of bench adds we have made have had an effective cost of ZERO, who in their right mind can be bemoan this.

It is easy to think we are forked with Mavs and Wolves making moves and us standing pat. But it is easy to confuse activity or lateral moves with progress. The Mavs were praised for example for adding Grant Williams last summer. Why didn’t we sign him declared the critics. Well maybe because he kind of sucks, just like I suspect the proposed deals we could have made yesterday.

aplumley
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February 8, 2024 12:50 pm

Some possible waiver pick ups. Spencer Dinwiddie and Killian Hayes are waived. End of bench upgrades maybe. I’m not mad that the Kings didn’t make any moves. Asking prices too high for marginal upgrades. Let’s go Kings.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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February 8, 2024 12:52 pm
Reply to  aplumley

That’s funny, legit playoff teams didn’t consider the asking prices to high. They went out and got better.

aplumley
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February 8, 2024 12:56 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Did they? Time will tell. Some of these trades will be disasters. Which trade do you think the Kings could have gotten done? From the actual trades that happened, not a pipe dream trade machine standpoint.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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February 8, 2024 1:17 pm
Reply to  aplumley

OKC, Minny, Dallas, and PHX were buyers and added talent. All are looking like teams that will now finish ahead of the Kings.

I don’t know what moves could have been made, but selling your open roster spot to another contender sure seems like a cheap ass move to me, all while sticking with a roster that got embarrassed by the Pistons B squad last night.

This team is not as good as last year and others have gotten better. So is status quo the way to proceed?

Kfan
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February 8, 2024 1:22 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Knicks got better too. Today and earlier. Maybe more concerning is not having the assets to compete with what the Knicks and Pacers got. What’s our path to improvement?

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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February 8, 2024 1:31 pm
Reply to  Kfan

What’s our path to improvement?

That is my concern. It’s not so much the guys on the roster because I like them all, it’s just where does Monte go from here?

They are already at around $145M committed to next year’s cap (that doesn’t include any possible draft picks or retaining Monk), which is set to be at $141M.

Amonk81
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February 8, 2024 10:53 pm
Reply to  Kfan

Those young assets Monte hasn’t drafted/picked up are what might sink the Kings playoff/contending hopes

Knicks had IQ and Grimez-both late picks. Kings have bupkis. Colby/Davion/Duarte/??? Plus Knicks have a cache of 1st….

WizsSox
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February 8, 2024 4:10 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

This team is not as good as last year and others have gotten better. So is status quo the way to proceed?

When you adding “talent” like these other teams did, likely doesn’t change the Status quo and your end of the season outcome, then sure…keeping the status quo might be the way to proceed.

TheGrantNapear
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February 8, 2024 1:08 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

What teams got legit better? I didn’t see any needle moving trades. The league pretty much stood pat. Let’s see what happens the rest of the way.

BeTheBall
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February 8, 2024 2:08 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

WRT the Kings position, I think Dallas got better. They’ve long been week in the middle. Now they add Gafford to provide a back up to Lively. It is a game changer, no. However it’s the incremental type of improvement that we were hoping to see from Monte. Improvement that will probably move them past us in the standings.

I also think the Suns improved, as they added depth. Something they didn’t have much of before.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 3:03 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

DAL added a good rotation player but PHX just got different and somehow even more shallow. They swapped 4 bench players for 2 bench players.

MichaelMack
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February 8, 2024 6:05 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

This is a great point NorCal.

I think the same applies to Dallas. PJ’s rep sure exceeds his game. Not a good corner 3pt shooter, very mediocre defender, and poor rebounder on a team that needs it. He is a pretty versatile scorer who can go on some heaters, but I am not sure he is “better” than Grant versus different. I think that trade was as much as no one likes Grant’s personality as much as anything.

BeTheBall
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February 8, 2024 6:11 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

PHX swapped 4 guys at the end of the bench for 2 guys to plug into their 2nd unit.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 9:33 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

True, but they are now an old team entirely reliant on 7-8 players throughout the rest of the season. We’ll see if they can stay healthy enough to finish.

SelecaoKOJ
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February 8, 2024 11:45 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Losers Mentality. When the Clips get to the Finals and the Kings are at home. Get back to me.

BeTheBall
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February 9, 2024 9:02 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

To be fair, I don’t see where there’s a path forward to the finals with this team/staff. So it’s not a winners/losers mentality thing.

murraytant
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February 9, 2024 12:46 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

O’Neale may start. But would not start in Sac.
Mavs got Gafford to replace Rashon and substitute before Klieber and D Powell and got PJ Washington for Grant Williams
They are better but long term emptied the future draft capital.
Kings in fight with NOP, Mavs, Suns for 5 and 6.Two in and two out. Right now Kings out.
Play-in could be trouble.
Agree that Suns got more shallow An injury could hurt them

SelecaoKOJ
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February 8, 2024 11:44 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

The Knicks got exponentially better. Almost unbeatable until OG went down with the elbow. Miami picked up Rozier. Much like Harden. Once he learn the Miami offense. That Backcourt will be sick. So, I would say picking up a 20 pt scorer is pretty big. Especially since Miami always makes the right moves.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
February 8, 2024 12:50 pm

Matt George with the truth.

jwalker1395
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February 8, 2024 1:19 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

can wait to have him make my ears bleed while shouting about it

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 2:46 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Who knows, they may have tried but MIL only has 2 SRPs from 2024-2030, ALL of their draft assets for next 6 years have all been traded except for a 2024 SRP and a 2027 SRP, I assume MIL was desperate to hang onto them.

It would’ve been nice to get something tangible like an SRP, but its not really something I would be concerned about, especially since the REAL contender they’re helping is in the East so it has no bearing on the Kings whatsoever. Nothing about this transaction was a negative for the Kings, no real positives either except to show that the Kings can be called on to help out once in a while.

Hobby916
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February 8, 2024 3:05 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

The Kings are not contenders, so “helping” contenders doesn’t really matter.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 3:12 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I agree

Amonk81
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February 8, 2024 10:57 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

For once….and completely agree.

I think what gets lost in all this is that yes, Mike Brown was talking about building a contender. They all were weren’t they? That’s what, so irritating about this.

So what the hell happened? Did Monte and Brown think that he could turn this team into a defensive unit? Ego? Did Monte suddenly realize all the people he brought in this year are not doing much?

not to mention the weird vibe with Fox, and with the team in general. What happened to all the fun and the talking in the joy?

SmoothSactown
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February 8, 2024 12:58 pm

While I understand the sentiment that a move would be welcome, this was a relatively chill trade deadline, all things said. Some minor shuffling, a few eyebrows raised, but nothing that I felt like we truly lost out on. I’m surprised that I finding the buyout market to be a bit more intriguing than the trades that happened today.
I wonder how much of things might be nerves about how the new CBA will play out?

discocricket
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February 8, 2024 12:58 pm

Unlike actions, which can be judged in terms of short and long term cap and roster effects, not taking action has the benefit of full opacity.

-There were no moves we liked
-Other teams overvalued their guys
-Other teams undervalued our guys
-We believe in our team short term
-We believe in our team long term
-I’ve got a plan
-I’ve got no plan

Pick any combination!

SlamsonsRollerskates
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February 8, 2024 1:55 pm
Reply to  discocricket

not taking action…”

Monte must believe in Taoism!

BeTheBall
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February 8, 2024 1:55 pm
Reply to  discocricket

I think it was a combination of:

-There were no moves we liked.
-I’ve got no plan.

aplumley
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February 8, 2024 12:59 pm

Love Lopez tweet. Great attitude.

HumboldtCPA
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February 8, 2024 1:03 pm

So does this count as a single trade for the prediction contest?

TheGrantNapear
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February 8, 2024 1:05 pm

Glad we didn’t make any rash moves. Play this season and playoffs out and see what the biggest needs are this offseason and address them.
I will say though, come on MM, you can’t even get a measly second rounder out of the Robin Lopez deal?
We have a paltry amount of assets in terms of young players and extra picks, and that is on MM one hundred percent.
His past offseason moves just haven’t panned out and most of us were skeptical of them from the start.
Anyways, should be an interesting and active offseason I imagine.

BeTheBall
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February 8, 2024 1:57 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I think we’re going to need to cross some fingers and toes to get into the playoffs.

TheGrantNapear
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February 8, 2024 3:07 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

We easily make the playoffs imo.

BeTheBall
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February 8, 2024 6:14 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Short of this offense reverting back to #1 in the league, or a slew of key injuries, I simply don’t see an easy path to the 6th spot.

Kfan
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February 8, 2024 1:17 pm

Maybe we can trade Monte for Ainge and tear it down to the studs?

We’re in real danger of topping out in the 6-11 seed range.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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February 8, 2024 1:26 pm
Reply to  Kfan

My butt pulled prediction: They finish 8th and loose the fist play-in to the Pels, and will then face a 9th seed Lakers squad for the final playoff spot. It won’t be pretty and we will be discussing who’s available at the 14th pick in the draft.

RockRichmond2
February 8, 2024 2:10 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

If that happens, we all know there’s no way the League allows the Lakers to miss the playoffs. LA might get 37 fourth quarter free throws this time.

BeTheBall
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February 8, 2024 2:16 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I’m starting to lean more toward missing the play-in over making the playoffs.

Unless this team can miraculously turn their entire play around, and suddenly become passable defenders. However, they haven’t been able to do it in a year and a half so far. So I simply don’t see that happening.

Our postseason hopes are tied to the Lakers and Jazz not improving, and the Warrior continuing in shambles.

oshima9
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February 8, 2024 2:25 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

Heard on 1320 that the Kings are one of the worst teams defending the 3 in NBA history. That’s not a path to success. I think the Warriors have turned the corner.

BeTheBall
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February 8, 2024 2:33 pm
Reply to  oshima9

29th, and only 0.1% ahead of 30th.

TerzoM
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February 8, 2024 2:47 pm
Reply to  oshima9

What is causing this? Too much switching or too much paint-help defense?

oshima9
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February 8, 2024 2:49 pm
Reply to  TerzoM

We have a roster of players who, with few exceptions, aren’t very good defensively.

andy_sims
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February 8, 2024 4:12 pm
Reply to  TerzoM

I’ve been bitching about help defense for years. You don’t want to provide an open look to anyone remotely competent at shooting threes, but I see teams (not just Sacramento] sag off of guys who shoot closer to 40% than 35%.

Unless Sabonis is just getting pushed around in the post, why are you leaving a shooter open to help prevent a guy from taking a contested two?

Help defense is the NBA version of the prevent defense in football. They’re both based on idiotic premises, and they fail again and again.

Just stay near your man.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 4:31 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Well said.

Personally, I also despise the “prevent defense” philosophy in the NFL (stats show it doesn’t work) and I dislike many of the current defensive schemes used in the NBA. My main issue is with “switch” heavy teams that constantly allow for mismatches on defense.

Switching is fine, as long as it used in conjuction with other schemes, like man-to-man, zones, traps, and funnels; it should not be used as a team’s only defensive scheme. Like any other scheme, it has weaknesses and can be picked apart. Greater care should be taken to avoid bad mismatches every trip down the court.

My last reason for disliking the switch-everything scheme is petty, but its a real complaint I have as a fan. I think switching everything can make it hard to determine “who” is not doing their job defensively or “who” missed their assignment which is simply frustrating as a fan to have to deal.

rockbottom
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February 9, 2024 9:00 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Great point . Switching everything is similar to a zone as no one is accountable . Both can be effective in situations but rarely as key strategy . I thought Brown was a Defensive guru . Guess not .

AnybodyButBagley
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February 9, 2024 11:07 am
Reply to  andy_sims

“Just stay near your man.”

Basketball wisdom that any NBA player needs.

How is that you are not a hall of fame coach?

ajonez81
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February 8, 2024 1:18 pm

How dare you release Sideshow Bob! We just lost to the Pistons, we’re good bruh juggernaut ova here. Pure Kings, when you think they might make a splash they do absolutely nothing. Still love this team but a back up PG or defensive wing woulda been nice sheesh. Going to need some upgrades at some point, there’s no way we’re cracking top 4 in West this year.

SlamsonsRollerskates
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February 8, 2024 1:27 pm

Fact: After last year’s trade deadline we had 28 games left and went 17-11 with exactly half of those games at home. This year we have 32 games left and 18 at home. If we hit the same winning percentage we will win 19 of those games and finish at 48-34.

Opinion: I think Monte is gambling we will make the playoffs outright. He isn’t his mentor Morey and willing to throw first round picks around full tilt. At least, not yet. I also think a big factor in not swinging big is committing to Keegan Murray developing as the third best player. I wanted a big move too, or at least something meaningful to “move the needle”, but the reigning GM of the year has my trust. He did the same thing last year and it worked.

Hobby916
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February 8, 2024 1:44 pm

Well the 3rd best player got benched last night against the lowly Pistons.

SlamsonsRollerskates
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February 8, 2024 1:53 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I’m not going to defend 0 points and 4 fouls, other than to say it’s just one game. An embarrassing game for him (and the team), but just one game.

Hobby916
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February 8, 2024 3:09 pm

Yeah, it was a bad night for him. Like probably his worst game as an adult.

Mike120
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February 8, 2024 4:44 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Highlighted by Jaden Ivey putting up 37 points.

SelecaoKOJ
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February 8, 2024 11:47 pm

Actually the last 4. He’s only scored 20 combined. But yeah, Core piece.

rockbottom
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February 9, 2024 9:06 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

Yes he is a core piece . 2nd year much improved overall . A hard working quality kid that attacking and betting against will look foolish soon enough . .Overall , a better second year than Pega, OG, Fox, and Tyrese .

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 1:33 pm

Not too disappointed, the only realistic move I really liked was OG and that has been long gone. Considering that the Kings are likely to make the playoffs, it seems that MM wants to roll the dice and see how they look and decide on where to go from there.

Personally, I’d make another run at Tari Eason (or a similar type player) in the offseason when you no longer have trade restrictions on FRPs.

Jack
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February 8, 2024 3:32 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

That was my hope this time around. Kid is a player.

SexyNapear
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February 8, 2024 1:36 pm

Pathetic. A GM without a clever bone in his body. This team is badly flawed and it seems like every observer can see it but the people who matter. They are defensive disaster.

And now Fox, for whatever reason (exhaustion, nagging injury, some weird petty hurt feeling), has become a stone-faced, inconsistent drag.

Just yuck.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 3:01 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

Is there a player out there that was moved this trade deadline that would’ve help fix the “defensive disaster” that this team is? Other than OG (and the Kings never had a viable offer), I don’t see anyone that would make the slightest bit of difference.

Since they decided to run it back with the same players, we knew that going into the season that the defense would be roughly the same, the teams defensive rating last year was 116.8 and this year its 116.4.

Unrealistic expectations will always set you up for disappointment.

NinjaFetus
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February 8, 2024 6:15 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

If we are going only by the players that were moved today or prior, the only one I think the Kings could’ve been in on was for Pat Bev. (Maybe they were and their package wasn’t enough?)

He’s lost a step and obviously wouldn’t be a big difference maker, but would’ve made a point in attempting to address the biggest weakness, which is perimeter defense. Maybe he would’ve been helpful to light a fire under people for the last part of the season so the Kings make the playoffs without having to go through the play-in?

Either of Mitchell or Duarte would’ve been more than enough financially, and I would’ve been fine with up to 2 SRP’s.

I wasn’t expecting a big move, just maybe a tweak around the edges somewhere. I think our frustration as fans comes when we see (and the team talks about) a weakness and then nothing appears to be done to address it when there are opportunities, looking at it from the outside. Maybe the only way to do that is during the offseason.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 9:48 pm
Reply to  NinjaFetus

It sucks to not get better at every opportunity, feels like the shot-clock ran down without getting a shot up. GM just dribbled the clock away.

With that said, I don’t know who or what was available or offered or anything. MM has earned more than a single year’s good-grace with me for drafting Murray and by making that ballsy-ass move to get Domas (I wouldn’t have done it) and breaking that non-playoff streak.

I didn’t like trading the 2023 FRP w/ Holmes to DAL, but when they resigned Domas early, I understood (would’ve much rather had Oliver-Maxence Prosper or one of the other wings taken here).

I didn’t like standing pat last year at the TDL and I don’t like it this year, but I understand.

MM has earned my trust for now.

NinjaFetus
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February 9, 2024 8:44 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Yeah, I don’t think MM really likes to make in season moves in order to see how things play out. Unfortunately, with how they’ve been playing this year I think it’ll be only as far as the first round again. I’m okay with that after missing it for so long, I just hope it’s not a sweep.

I get that with the success they had last year that gambling on seeing how this year went with mostly the same team might’ve been an incremental improvement. No GM gets every move right, and I’m with you on having more trust with MM right now. But this upcoming offseason is going to be difficult, and I’ve got to admit I’m a bit more anxious and skeptical about what will be done to make improvements. Hoping for the best though!

TheGrantNapear
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February 8, 2024 3:08 pm
Reply to  SexyNapear

Epic Grant Rant!

Hobby916
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February 8, 2024 3:10 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

comment image

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 3:53 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I gotta say, I miss Giles being on the team.

I know he really isn’t a NBA player at this point (due to his injuries), but he is one hell of a quality dude and I loved to cheer him on.

Hobby916
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February 8, 2024 4:24 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I miss Grant calling games. Leaps and bounds better than Kyle and Mark.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 4:38 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

He was good when he called the games, such a great rapport with Jerry…absolutely hated him on the radio and as a person though.

TheGrantNapear
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February 8, 2024 4:43 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Agreed. Grant calling games with Jerry was peak announcing…Grant on the radio was disgusting.

rockbottom
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February 9, 2024 9:11 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

They rarely talked over the game and focused on actual on court action . Very much missed . Usually, enjoy this team but forced to mute often to save ears .

Amonk81
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February 8, 2024 10:59 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I loved Giles. So skilled. With good knees woulda been awesome.

kings4ever
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February 9, 2024 7:57 am
Reply to  SexyNapear

LOL. You are the clever one? The next time you say something clever will be the first time. The team is not “badly flawed”. We are undersized. And we need a more actualized version of Keegan, and Huerter to stop missing so many high quality looks.

You act like being “stone-faced” is a bad thing. It is called stoicism, which is constructive to being an elite performer, reflecting an emotional equanimity through the highs and lows.

What is the alternative? Being hyperemotional, a la Boogie Cousins, an unhinged loser?

I offer my critique above of Fox, one rooted in fairness and objectivty, not inane rhetoric in regards to a Top 10 NBA player.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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February 8, 2024 1:38 pm

So the Kings had to have sent something to the Bucks in this deal, right? What was it?

Kfan
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February 8, 2024 1:39 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Likely a heavily protected 2nd rounder

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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February 8, 2024 1:42 pm
Reply to  Kfan

But since the Kings are over the cap, don’t they have to near matching salary?

Hobby916
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February 8, 2024 1:45 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Lopez was on a vet minimum so they didn’t have to send anything back, right? I read that somewhere.

Adamsite
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February 8, 2024 2:12 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Could be. I was not aware of that rule.

Hobby916
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February 8, 2024 3:08 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

“Lopez was on a veteran’s minimum salary deal, so Sacramento didn’t have to match a salary or use a traded player exception to pull off the deal. The Kings had an open roster spot to make the trade.”

TerzoM
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February 8, 2024 2:10 pm

Yuck, could end up losing 6 in a row.

Screenshot-2024-02-08-140700
BeTheBall
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February 8, 2024 2:27 pm
Reply to  TerzoM

I like our chances tomorrow and Sunday. Denver is on a SEGABABA and we always seem to get up for them. Same with the Thunder.

My biggest concern is how much longer will it be before Fox’s attitude/effort get back to normal. Because if he continues along in his mental funk, we’re in for a rough finish.

andy_sims
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February 8, 2024 4:17 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

Love the absolutely farcical notion that De’Aaron Fox has a poor attitude and isn’t giving his best effort.

My assumption is that he’s got some nagging injury, and it makes it hard for him to be at his best. That man is not a slacker, and he’s not a quitter.

BeTheBall
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February 8, 2024 6:16 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I’ve seen zero evidence of injury, that’s the problem.

Jman1949
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February 8, 2024 6:45 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

Almost every game he winces and rubs his right shoulder. I remember him starting a game a couple months ago with the shoulder taped. He didn’t like the feel of the tape and ripped it off after just a few minutes of playing time. I don’t remember the circumstances of how he sustained the injury, but have a vague recollection of him taking a hit the game before the shoulder was taped.

BeTheBall
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February 8, 2024 7:12 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

I can’t recall having seen him do that since shortly after the media blackout.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 9:52 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

It still happens every game, multiples times a game. Another poster and I watch for it and mention it every once in a while as we were trying to chair-diagnose his injury (is it a shoulder, wrist, elbow?).

urkiddinme
February 9, 2024 7:56 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

But why would he snub the media if he’s just physically sore?

BeTheBall
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February 9, 2024 8:56 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Seems like a night or two off is in order then, if it’s that much of an issue for him to play through. The team would be better served having somebody productive and healthy out there. Not to mention, they’re risking an even bigger injury that takes him out for a couple weeks.

AnybodyButBagley
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February 9, 2024 11:09 am
Reply to  andy_sims

The great defender Mr. Fox should “Just stay near his man”.

That will fix the worst part of his game.

Has he called you to tell you he isn’t feeling right?

Your assumptions are always solid and not at all an assumption. Avoiding the press for 16 days is all about solid leadership.

Last edited 5 months ago by AnybodyButBagley
RobHessing
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February 8, 2024 2:34 pm

Robin Lopez weighs in –
comment image

WiltLives
February 8, 2024 3:39 pm

Speaking of Xavier Tillman (to the Celtics) – you do remember that we traded him to Memphis where he was a useful bench player and did well enough to be a desired piece in a trade? We took Robert Woodard with the acquired pick and he was zilch. I wonder if Barnes had not upped his game the last couple of weeks if they would have traded him — on the other hand, the way he was playing, he was only worth a 2nd round pick, which is not worth much.

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February 8, 2024 3:46 pm

I don’t know how the front office can look at this roster and how they’ve performed this season and think “yes, this is fine”.

Objection: Assertion based on facts not in evidence.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 8, 2024 3:59 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Sustained: The assertion assumed something as true for which no evidence as been shown.

AnybodyButBagley
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February 9, 2024 11:12 am
Reply to  andy_sims

…..from the man who openly begins every sentence with “My assumption is….”

Hobby916
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February 8, 2024 5:49 pm

Why was there no banner for this trade on the TKH homepage?