Vent away.
Full recap to follow.
Postgame Thread: Trail Blazers 115, Kings 106
Oh no, we suck again!
By Greg Wissinger | 106 Comments | Nov 29, 2024
Nov 29, 2024; Portland, Oregon, USA; Portland Trail Blazers center Deandre Ayton (2) is fouled by Sacramento Kings guard De'Aaron Fox (5) during the first half at Moda Center. Mandatory Credit: Troy Wayrynen-Imagn Images
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Can we just do a proper tank and rebuild for once? Vivek won’t allow it.
Who’s getting fired this year? Monte or Brown or both?
Just once. Please. Rebuild like a competent organization. Just once, try to compete for a title. Like one time.
We’re tanking, albeit unintentionally but still effectively. Don’t know if Brown will be fired this year but I sure as heck bet he won’t make it to the end of his new contract. That contract is looking stupider by the day.
Hopefully both. Monte shouldn’t have survived the offseason based on his job performance & Brown didn’t deserve the extension.
If Monte goes Brown is next. The new GM should have his choice of the coach.
Attendance is down about 1,000 per game so far this season for the Kings. Vivek and the minority owners care about the bottom line, money.
When the low attendance becomes an issue for the owners making a return in their investment, then changes will come. Until that point, it will be the team just trying to stay afloat and competitive enough without spending too much.
Boycotts work, seen that with many procedures and companies in recent years. It’s the main way fans can show displeasure.
(I am not advocating for a boycott of the team)
If they arena is empty they pipe in some noise for television. The money comes from the television deals.
20 games in. IMO, small sample sizes are no longer a thing. This is who this team is.
Your move, Monte.
I wish Monte had the balls to blow this up but we know that’s not happening. They continue to seek short term improvement at the expense of long term cohesion and they continue to fail. It’s clear now that two years ago was a fluke.
The only thing that matters now is making sure they keep their pick. That’s it. It’s the only goal. Making the play-in and losing is the absolute worst outcome.
I think not tanking is more of a Vivek call. Monte has worked within the constraints of his boss. They should have tanked years ago but Vivek keeps making win-now moves that shortcut the team building process and ultimately end up being half-measures that lead to nowhere.
I think you’re probably right and it’s so frustrating. But Monte is the the GM and the buck ultimately stops with him because Vivek isn’t going anywhere.
I don’t want Monty to tank this team. This is a selfish reason. I’m 81 and if we tankI will never see the Kings win a championship or just have a good playoff win. I supported this team back when and still do.
They might not even have this years pick.
what is the move? Team is now on the balance between having a veteran team that you dont want to trade first round picks to build around..
I think you just need to have a gap year and keep the pick and hope Carter is the real deal and get better depth
Thing is, if Monte waffles/fails to make moves, Fox will just ask out and force the issue. Or, god forbid, Monte tries to play chicken with him, and he leaves for nothing.
The prudent thing to do it proactively move Fox before he has the chance to force anything.
I have lost much confidence in Monte and Brown for sure has an unbalanced roster to work with. But there is still too much talent on this roster for it to be this mediocre, and that is on Brown.
We are likely a borderline play-in team for a second season in a row. Time to blow this shit up before we lose Fox for nothing.
And if blowing it up includes Monte and Brown, I won’t lose any sleep over it.
We have 4 players of decent quality on the roster in Fox, Sabonis, Monk and DeRozan, and the last one is starting what seems to be a pretty noticeable decline. I think with a roster like that, we’re right about where we should be in terms of record.
So many key rotation players regressing (Keegan, Huerter, Lyles), it’s difficult to give the coach a mulligan.
Huerter is the only one of those players that consistently put up the numbers. Keegan and Lyles did it for a brief period of time. Keegan and Lyles could just be at their realistic abilities. Huerter is working through some stuff in my opinion.
I mean, Domas had 14 points in the first quarter, 18 at the half.
He finished with 21 for the game and barely gets involved offensively because our former coach of the year’s busy complaining to the refs.
WTH?
Domas quietly put up a triple double in a stupid loss. Wasted.
Anyone can put up numbers, there are guys on all 30 teams putting them up and some of those teams sre horrible. Domas isn’t a good defender or leader and he’s soft, doesn’t win games. I’m not impressed by stats, only wins.
This is what nobody seems to get. You know why it was quiet? Because he is afraid to be anything but quiet. He is either to afraid, or just not good enough to lead a team. You know what the best player on a team doesn’t do? Shoot 8-10. because if they are shooting that well they know they need the ball. Something Sabonis can’t, or won’t, do.
This roster has talent but none of it fits together. Basketball teams have to be cohesive with pieces that fit and the DeRozan trade broke the balance of the roster. Nobody knows their role and now everyone is playing like a lesser version of themselves save maaaaybe Fox.
I was recently starting to believe that DeRozan really is a square peg but then again even when he’s out (today being a prime example), the offense stagnates. DeRozan may not be a great fit but I think the team’s problems are bigger than just his fit.
i think a creative coaching staff would find a way to make DeRozan fit on this team. i always said that’s what it would take. It wasn’t going to be seamless, but it can still fit. Big problem is all those floor-spacers we were counting on completely forgot how to shoot.
Yes Fox is putting up numbers but only because there is no actual offense and Fox thrives in ISO ball. That’s not a good sign, he’s having to work extremely hard. I see it all over his face and body language. It’s crazy when I watch this offense nothing comes easy because of how non-existent it is, looked fluid and balanced a couple years ago but we didn’t evolve. Brown got lazy, it’s easy to do. He’s an average coach that had one good year.
The “mastermind” of the offense is Jay Triano. He hasn’t done anything remotely impressive the past 2 seasons.
Brown is ultimately in charge, so empowering/allowing this offensive strategy to happen is completely on him. Just a mess, from top to bottom.
I listened to Matt George this morning and in most part go along with what he said. He blames 3 things: Brown, Monty and the team. I blame Brown a lot but this is his team. Some really good players. He can’t seem to bring them together to be a good consistent basketball team.
He blamed Monty. Monty has’nt done anything except bring in Derozan. Nothing else. Maybe he can’t find trades out there that would help the team especially from the bench. Who wants Huerter? Who wants Lyles? Who wants Len or McLaughlin? He isn’t willing to use any first rounders to help the situation. Or seconds for that matter.
IMO I have 2 blames George didn’t mention. First IMO all the other teams have found out how to defend Brown’;s offense. Since we don’t or can’t shoot 3’s this offense isn’t going to work. Maybe just don’t dump the whole thing but either subtract and add some different sets decause this offense sucks.
Second Matt didn’t mention the team could be the problem. He did mention turnovers. 20 in one game just doesn’t cut it. The Blazers packed the paint not allowing any offense there. Why because the Kings just can’t shoot the 3. Same old offense just doesn’t cut it. One player that starts that is really hurting us is Keegan Murray. 3 points in 29 minutes and those 3 were in garbage time. Not just last night but almost the entire season. Great defense but pathetic offense. If he can’t remedy this then he might be looking at the trading block. You can’t win with just 4 on offense. I watched Murray brive into the paint 8 feet from the basket nobody around. He had the shot but instead tried to get the ball to Sabonis. Result turnover. Shows be he has completely lost his confidence and is playing scared. Huerter and Lyles are not contributing at all. If Brown plays McDermoot one more minute I’ll change teams. Not really. One right spot in the last 2 games has been Issac Jones. Play him more. We need the bigger body out there.
What’s wrong with this team. Brown, Monty and the team its self. Hope things change or forget playoffs or even play-ins.GO KINGS!
Keegan just play like coward, no guts to back smaller people down, even with nobody around him, he afraid to shoot or get into the paint……
It’s all on him, he should be benched, and come out as 2nd unit, and let him be the main offense..(i.e. without Sabonis to hand him the ball), just let him to create for himself, to build up his confidence.
What an embarrassment. It’s hard to believe in Monte’s ability to deal out of the mess he made here.
Especially considering he got us into the mess.
The GM’s that have average teams would have turned this roster at least once by now.
When a teams starting shooting guard and starting power forward cannot average 10 points a night you will not win much. Mix that with sloppy turnovers, lack of effort, and a general melancholy attitude.
This is the recipe the Kings have built and they lose.
It’s a few degrees above freezing and I walked home because the cold was more invigorating than this team tonight.
Well, that and I would’ve been waiting maybe an hour for the streetcar, but I needed the walk to clear the mind anyways.
Fix the bench. Get some defenders. Get someone with some fire in them.
Someone with fire is key. Fire to defend. Fire to win a game.
I will stand by my controversial take that we need a Patrick Beverley to bring some energy.
That is not at all controversial. I like him and was thinking the same today. He has some chatter about making a return to the NBA. Not sure it is real or just him talking. I love him as a player. Put him at the two and Derozan at the three with Crowder slipping in to relieve them both.
Ideally, what I’d rather see is Beverley and Monk off the bench, because we have zero energy there unless Monk is scoring. That would be dependent on getting a wing or PF for the starting unit to shift Keegan. Send Lyles/Huerter/whatever else to Brooklyn to get DFS and Cam Johnson.
I just don’t see anyone taking Huerter or Lyles at this point.
Getting a power forward has been obvious need that they keep dancing around. Keegan back at the three. Derozan at the two. Beverly on the bench or anywhere near this team is solid. He is not soft player. He won’t be popular in the locker room.
Beverly is washed.
cmon. More deck chairs. Let’s bring in another 36 year old really?
A 36 year old small guard that no team wanted . Yeah , that’s the ticket !
Maybe they can get Demarcus Cousins back too……….
Cousins at least complained about losing.
Hope you enjoyed a couple of beers and the sights and sounds of the live action.
Many years sober now, but damn it all if 2024 hasn’t tested me harder than a German spelling bee.
Hahahha!
I respect that choice and I am glad you had the respect for yourself to make that choice today.
Maybe one day watching this team will be consistently euphoric and exciting?
Time to go all in on winning. Start Monk at the two and Issac at the four. When Derozan gets back he plays the three.
Sadly, a Fox, Monk, DeRozan, Jones, Sabonis lineup is probably going to have to score 150 a night to have a shot at winning.
True. Isaac will out score Keegan and Ellis combined. That will still leave us twenty or thirty points short.
Roster that has 3 all-star level players but not a true superstar that can elevate a team mixed with maybe 2 functional rotational options(Monk and then Keon/Murray alternate from game to game on who can be reliable for both scoring and defense). After that it’s a bunch of guys that simply aren’t good enough for a true contending team. Team can’t shoot the 3ball to save their life and they stink at defending the perimeter so every game their backs are against the wall losing the 3PT battle by a good 10-15+ points usually. Also starting to believe that Jordi was the real brains behind things while he was here and now that he’s gone Bronw is being exposed more. Add it all up and you get a roster build that is dead in the water in a stacked Western conference
Right now they have the look and feel of a team that hovers at or around .500 all year long. Not sure that’ll be enough to get the 10 spot in this conference
Three all star level players is not true. None of them were all stars.
I mean in general they are all-star worthy type guys/have prior all-star nods. They’re good players, just not those top 10 type guys that can transform a team. It’s imperative to have good depth paired with those types otherwise we get what we see right now, which obviously isn’t good enough
I see what you mean and agree.
Looking at other teams the bench has at least three players that could arguably start on any team. We have Monk and that is all.
Keegan’s shot falling off a cliff has been such a killer for the team overall, especially since he’s usually playing heavy minutes since they lack quality wing depth of any kind
I think at this point we need a new four. Keegan is not it. Put him back home at the three. He might be happier there. If not Derozan and Crowder are just fine there.
Crowder is not a three or much of anything except a spot shooter and so_called tough guy that all teams passed on except the Kings .
TBF, the Kings passed on him,too…until Monte got desperate
He was passe on here too. Now he is the back up three. Better than any other option this team has.
And we’re back!
When do pitchers report again?
We’re talking pitchers of beer right? Right?
It seems that all pitchers are reporting to LA. More BS.
Hello darkness my old friennnnnndddd
Did you take that photo today in case we got blown out? 😛
My daughter snagged my Kangz shirt and hs been wearing it to school. I asked her why she likes it, and she says it’s “vintage.” I told here the shirt isn’t that old and just came with the start of TKH.
She responded total deadpan, “Yeah but the Kings have sucked forever.” She is 17 and not wrong. They’ve sucked for basically her entire life.
They have been good for 8/40 years in Sacramento, and haven’t been good since, what, 2006? 22-23 seems like an anomaly at this point, aided by an injury riddled conference and career years by many Kings players.
Kings fans born in 2006 have only seen the team make the postseason once. They were old enough to drive before that one good season.
Similar issues in my home. Cannot argue with the kids that know anything about basketball. Two decades of trash has wiped out three generations of Kings fans.
Didnt watch the game thank God. I dont know what happened to Keegan but 3 points aint gonna cut it. If he has an average game we dont lose.
Was he his usual timid self or was his shot just not falling?
Trading Fox, Monk and Sabonis seems logical. There will be plenty of draft picks and young assets out there from many teams.
Vivek is either still meddling for the sake of his cash cow or he’s really dumb at being an NBA owner.
This team is not going anywhere regardless of Demar in or out of the lineup.
A smart organization would be calling the Pels, Rockets, Heat, Nets, Spurs, Raptors, Blazers, all these teem loaded with young assets, picks and opportunities to rebuild proper.
The team has completely tuned out Brown. No, Brown is not entirely at fault. Huerter is done. Keegan is NOT that guy. The bench is non existent. Save Monk.
Team was down by 20. With more than half of The Blazers roster out.’Scoot?’Grant, Williams all starters. Alongside rising rook Clingan and Thybuille still out. AUFKM. I am not the biggest Billips guy. But he has that team playing some inspired ball every night.
They also have a super bright future. And trade chips. Banton, Clingan and Camara look like keepers. Scoot and Sharpe will
improve. Trade chips Grant and Simons.
Fox being traded to the Rockets, Heat. Spurs, or even Pels sounds fantastic about right now.
Why would Rockets want him ? They are contenders now with terrific guard line and no desire to pay Fox 50 million per year .
He has been talking about Houston for eternity. Committed.
Len, Lyles, McDermott, Huerter -why are we wasting time here watching these guys play – expecting something else to happen. Colossal staffing fail. Don’t need to waste more time on the court with these guys when we could get some newer players with some potential. Nothing to see here folks.
add McLaughlin to that list as well.
Sounds good. Is potential being given out for free? Because that aforementioned grab bag of players won’t yield you the newer players
you’re looking for. You have to give something to get something.
For example Kings are are calling about acquiring Camera/Clingan from the blazers.
Kings offer any of a
grab bag of Huerter,
Len, Lyles, Ellis, etc,
etc
. Blazers laugh and promptly disconnect.
The team is ranked 27th in the league at 3pt shooting percentage (coincidentally also ranked 27th in opponents’ 3pt percentage) . With all the crappy 3pt shooting, I wonder if they practice 3pt shooting at all. For any group of professionals it seems like addressing a shortcoming would be a logical thing to do.
Looking at it again, this game is such a head-scratcher.
You win the rebounding battle by one (41-40).
You win the 3-point shooting battle; 15 makes at a.357 clip agaiunst 11 makes at .297.
Despite all your complaining, you shoot 28 ft’s vs 15 (21 vs 12 makes).
Monk has a good game.
Yes, you had 20 TO’s (5 each by Fox, Domas and Monk) but only 6 in the second half and were only down 4 points at halftime. So what went wrong in the second half?
At the half, Sabonis had 18 points, almost exclusively on pick & roll actions (mainly with Monk and once McLaughlin). The second half, he was almost exclusively standing around, doing dribble handoffs.
Without Clingan and Time Lord, Portland has no point protection. Yet the Blazers scored 64 points in the game, to Sacramento’s 34.
So despite Domas having a monster first half, mainly feasting inside, you go away from it and end up get outscored in the paint 64-34.
You can talk about roster construction and fit all you want (and with cause), but DDR wasn’t there and you just completely failed to exploit your opponent’s soft spot in the second half. That’s coaching.
I see people claiming Keegan had bad Octobers and Novembers in his previous seasons. I hope that’s it and if so, December can’t come quick enough. But as I believe Adamsite pointed out in the game thread, he’s being completely misused on offense. Brown tasked him to work on his weaknesses (fine), but totally took him away from his strengths (absolutely not fine).
MIke Brown is not a good coach. He’s not even a decent coach. He’s an overpaid mediocre coach who got a way too rich, premature extension.
That extension decision falls on Monte, like many other decisions that led to this shit show. But Brown is also a big part of the problem, and not near to being a part of the solution.
Many harsh words there, but it’s mostly true. The players deserve some of the blame for poor shooting but Brown deserves a shit-ton of blame for poor play calling (does he have any set plays?), wearing down his starters, using weirdo rotations, not playing to his players’ strengths, mismanaging timeouts and challenges, etc, etc. No, Brown is not a good coach, and a lot of the players’ struggles we’re now seeing stem from that poor coaching.
And I still contend that among Brown’s weirdo-est weirdo rotations was starting Crowder in the Minny game when he had exactly zero seconds of experience on this team. Good way to tell your bench that you have no faith in them.
Terrible way to instill confidence in your bench. I personally would never play McDermott again. One of Monty’s worst pickups. Can’t play defense. Instead of Crowder I personally would have started I. Jones. Give him some confidence. Play him more that 2 or 3 minutes. Let him get used to the flow.
About the wearing down his starters comment, absolutely.
As I wrote pregame, we have 4 players in the top 16 in minutes per game.
Fox at 2, Keegan at 7, Domas at 15 and DDR at 16.
So we make up 25% of players logging the most minutes in the NBA. Not good.
The Knicks only have 3 in the top 25 list. Brown is the new Thibs.
Harsh? Maybe, but the truth hurts.
There is plenty of blame to go around starting from the very top on down. Vivek I sense still can’t keep his hands out of day to day operations. Monte, what were you smoking this last off season when you concocted our messed up roster? Are you blind man? We had front court positions of need that you completely ignored and filled the roster with guards. Now you’ve brought in players as old as Methuselah or are one-trick ponies (see McDermott). MB seems to have no set plays or rotations and is forced to play starters too many minutes because he lacks a productive bench. Keegan for all his improvements on defense and rebounding has regressed in scoring. Partly (I assume) from playing out of position at the 4. Put him back at the 3. In my mind this guy was supposed to be a future cornerstone of the franchise. Huerter is a complete mess, Keon should have been our starting 2 from day one. Lyles is fragile as glass. Alex Len can’t get PT. Etc., etc., etc.
Harsh, no. Just plain fucked up.
Monte still thinks he’s in Houston doing small ball around Harden. He learned from Daryl Morey who’s not even that good of a GM lol, look at the shiz show in Philly sheesh. One good season then back to mediocrity…Kangz’d.
Like playing C, Jones and McDermott. I personally don’t want to see McDermott on the court again. I kind of undersand why Crower but why in the h… did Monty pick up McDarmott. Worst defensive player ever.
Jordi leaves to go to a tanking team of has-beens and G-leaguers, but has them balling out. While we bring back marginally improved team (on paper), and the wheels come off. Very telling.
Once again in the Vivek era, the better coach may been let go. Malone and now Jordi.
I tend to agree.
Spoelstra, Kerr, D’agenault, Udoka, etc would have this team playing much better. Brown just looks clueless, and gets out coached almost every game.
It’s odd that every shooter, aside from Keon, has completely fallen off a cliff this season. Something isn’t right. They all just didn’t magically forgot how to shoot at the same time, while all being on the same team.
Actually, Domas is now the best 3 point shooter and has numbers of 62, 41, 82 % shooting . He needs to shoot more and everyone else less .
I didn’t include Domas because he hasn’t been a “shooter” in his career until recently. He has been fine when taking open 3s.
Judge a player on his shooting percentage but don’t include the one with the highest percentage?
Keon won’t shoot though.
Mostly agree but Brown’s 25 million extension falls directly on Vivek . Also, remember many in media and this site calling for this un-necessary new contract when he had 1 year remaining .
Yeah I feel bad the way people try to be so positive and say much-earned and all this stuff. Be realistic, he had one good year and then a so-so one, only the trauma and history of Kangzdom makes you think that is definitely extension worthy. The glazing is not authentic for me boss, that’s how you stay mediocre. Gotta be tougher. Everything top to bottom about this team/organization is SOFT.
Ur hired Rik Smits, I believe in you more than MB already, nice analysis.
1st step: Just try to trade for Zion, as his value is low now…
2nd step: TANK
3rd step: Pick Cooper
4th step: Rebuild Success !
This team right now is un-watchable……….
5 or 10 games or so, I didn’t think Brown would make it to Christmas as Kings coach. That is looking like it will become more and more true every game.
They beat the Wolves mainly because Monk got hot late in the game. They look more disjointed on offense as the season goes on. Brown looks confused on the sidelines, often standing there looking blankly, mouth agape, while his team is playing like crap.
The shine has worn off. There is no wax left in the container.
Yup, this would be a 6 game losing streak if Monk and Fox and had not gone supernova in the 4th against Minny. As a team, they’ve been stinky for a while.
The scary thing about the idea of removing Brown, is then you get Jay Triano (the supposed offensive mind of the coaching staff) as interim head coach for remainder of the year. I guess it’s a solid way to tank.
Murray needs to go to the bench until
he gets his head out of his ass. 1-9, 3 points is unacceptable. Start Monk in his place.
Right now, he get some mental issue, afraid to shoot………..
He need to be benched, and regain his confidence…
Maybe we should put Issan Jones to replace him….We don’t need to spread the floor…
Just all mid-range jumper
Serious question. Hearing all the calls to blow it up and do a complete tank and rebuild, what makes you think they will even THAT right? I remember going to a draft party in Natomas, maybe at C-Web’s old restaurant, and being so excited for “the rebuild” of 2008. Only took, checks watch, 14 seasons, for the team to be good again.
Just be careful what you wish for.
To be fair, they’ve never done a proper rebuild. It’s continually been a random infusion of patchwork talent to try to keep their heads above water.
Honest question, when was the last time this team sold assets to get future first round draft capital? I honestly can’t recall. The only one that comes to mind was DMC for Buddy Hield and the Pelicans first round pick (#10) in 2017.
And that #10 pick was traded and turned into….Justin Jackson and Harry Giles.
It seems like only yesterday (OK, June) that I was ‘armchair scouting’ draft picks, free agents, and potential trades. When they got an undersized, injured point guard in the draft and traded an older, undersized 4 for an old, undersized 3, I thought ‘Kangz’ but decided to hope for a team that could ‘outscore its way’ into the 6 spot. Smits is right; Monte sucks but you could get more out of this roster than Brown is getting, by playing to the strengths of these guys on the offensive end. So they both suck. You don’t blame the welders when a car design sucks and it runs bad to boot, so don’t blame the players here.
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