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Marvin Bagley’s struggles go far beyond a lack of shooting touch

The third year big man needs to find a way to impact the game outside of scoring.
By | 257 Comments | Jan 5, 2021

Credit: Kimani Okearah

Marvin Bagley hasn’t exactly enjoyed a triumphant return to the hardwood this season. He can’t knock down shots from anywhere on the floor, ranking in the 0th percentile among big men in effective field goal percentage, and things only seem to get worse from there.

At the rim, Marvin places in the 10th percentile and in the midrange he sits in the 14th percentile. Hell, he’s shooting 11 of 26 (42%) on layups this year.

That lack of touch around the rim and Bagley’s inability to get anything to actually go through the hoop has been an understandable source of consternation among the kingdom, but his shooting percentages will also probably recover over the course of an entire season, at least to a certain extent. It’s Marvin’s complete lack of ability to impact any other part of the game that has served to amplify the attention paid to his missed bunnies and free throw attempts.

For some reason, a few highlight blocks in Bagley’s rookie season convinced a portion of the fan base that he possessed potential as a future positive defender and above-average rim protector. But three seasons into his career he has yet to show any of that dynamic. Out of 214 qualified players, Marvin Bagley ranks 213th in defensive field goal percentage, the percent that an opponent’s field goal percentage increases or decreases when guarded by a particular player. On the season, his opponents have posted a pedestrian 48.1% FG%, but when defended by Bagley, that accuracy jumps to an incredible 62%, an increase of 13.9%. For comparison’s sake, Buddy Hield was considered the worst defender on the squad last year, and he posted a DFG% Differential of 5.2%. Unfortunately, the numbers somehow get worse for Marvin as he shifts closer to the basket. Of the 107 players who have defended at least three shots per game at the rim, Bagley currently places 99th, allowing his opponents to shoot a whopping 83.4% in the paint, a 15.1% jump from their average of 68.3%.

The team’s overall defensive numbers are directly reflective of this awful performance. When Bagley is on the floor, the Kings post a defensive rating of 115.8, equivalent to the second-worst defensive rating in the league, and the worst mark among Kings players who have played at least 75 total minutes this season. When Marvin sits, Sacramento’s entire defensive identity seems to change, as their rating plummets to 105, on par with the sixth-best defense in the NBA. The Kings aren’t going to win many games if they continue to give Bagley undeserved minutes and give up an additional 10 points per 100 possessions when he’s in the game.

On the opposite end of the floor, Bagley’s inability to hit shots, at least up until this point in the season, has been magnified by his refusal to do anything to help his teammates get better themselves. As a big man who can theoretically play on the perimeter and in the paint (again, theoretically), Marvin should be feasting in the pick-and-roll with his athleticism, finding his teammates when he’s swarmed in the post, and backing off on offense when his shot isn’t falling, but none of those concepts have come to fruition. He’s featured in the pick-and-roll only 11% of the time, and while part of that obviously comes down to the coaching scheme, it’s also partly due to his lack of interest in running the play correctly. When coming off of the pick, he either somehow manages to run straight toward the guard and clog the area or he drifts lifelessly toward the free throw line, as evidenced by his 0.83 points per possession in that situation, ranking in the 12th percentile. Peforming well in the pick-and-roll is all about combining skill with effort, and Marvin has displayed no desire to peform in either category.

When he’s not meandering around the court pretending to set screens on offense, Bagley has yet to show any growth in his black hole nature once the ball gets in his hands. Among fellow big men, he places in the 84th percentile in usage (24.2%), second on the team, yet he also ranks in the 14th percentile in assist percentage (5.3%), the lowest among rotational players, and in the 8th percentile in usage to assist ratio at 0.22, also the lowest on the Kings. Those numbers are eerily similar to his rookie season, in which he posted a usage of 22.5% (86th percentile), an assist percentage of 5.9% (14th percentile), and an assist to usage ratio of 0.26 (3rd percentile). Desipite his compete inability to knock down the easiest of shots this year, Bagley continues to refuse to give up the rock once he gets ahold of it, a disturbing lack of progress from his first season in the league.

Of course, there is one area in which Marvin has been relatively successful this season: rebounding. His 10.8% offensive reboudning rate is good enough for the 82nd percentile among big men, and his defensive rebounding doesn’t fall far behind, sitting in the 71st percentile. The issue with Bagley’s rebounding is that it isn’t particularly valuable when framed against his other flaws, his high-usage, low-efficiency offense, and his complete lack of impact on the defensive end. Hassan Whiteside is a great rebounder and he’s making the league minimum for a reason. If that’s all that Marvin can contribute, he essentially can’t contribute anything at all.

Marvin Bagley’s shot is going to start falling at some point, but his poor shooting has also been perhaps the least concerning portion of his unbelievably bad start to the 2020-2021 season. Whether or not he’s scoring, Marvin needs to start making an impact in other ways, whether that’s on the defensive end of the floor, setting up his own teammates for buckets, or in helping his guards in the screening game. Until he can conquer some or all of those areas, Marvin Bagley isn’t going to make much of a difference when he walks out onto the hardwood, whether or not he’s knocking down shots.

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Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
January 5, 2021 9:49 am

Truth be told, rookies and “developing players” have been sent to the G-League for putting up BETTER numbers than Bagley has posted.

He’s been downright awful. I don’t think I’ve ever stated a player is on a bad contract while still on his rookie deal, but here we have it. At this rate, he doesn’t even deserve the QO at the end of next season.

RikSmits
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January 5, 2021 9:57 am
Reply to  Adamsite

You have to wonder if at this point Monte is regretting picking up his option.
That’s crazy.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
January 5, 2021 10:03 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Remember when we all scoffed at PapaG getting his option picked up? That was for $2M. Bagley’s is for over $11M.

RikSmits
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January 5, 2021 10:14 am
Reply to  Adamsite

And PapaG was out a few weeks later….

beephop
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January 5, 2021 10:25 am
Reply to  Adamsite

And PapaG had spunk and sass! *cue the papaG head nod gif*

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 11:10 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Breaking: Kings receive offer of Papagiannis. Greek Basket League Team Panathinaikos requests Bagley plus Cash Considerations in exchange.

Last edited 3 years ago by Kosta
eddie41
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January 5, 2021 11:12 am
Reply to  Kosta

Plus all the cardboard cutouts of his head that were handed out at his Sacramento arrival.

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 11:16 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Giles QO was $3.9MM.

Kingsguru21
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January 5, 2021 2:24 pm

Bagley’s QO is 14.7 million. Ouch.

beephop
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January 5, 2021 10:25 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Took an expensive flyer on a previous #2 pick. Bagley does suck, but I don’t think picking up his option is going to hurt us real bad, considering how much it would have helped had it worked out.

Reluctantkingfan
January 5, 2021 10:35 am
Reply to  beephop

He’s not good, but his stats can disguise his poor play. Once he goes a month averaging a double/double I say you flip for a mid-late first rounder.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
January 5, 2021 10:48 am

Bagley is miles away from being worth a first rounder. I’d argue he doesn’t even fetch you a 2nd rounder due to his contract.

530-rain
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January 5, 2021 9:09 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It will be tough, but let him pad his stats. There will be some GM and coach out there who think they can “fix” him.

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 11:00 am

I don’t know if front offices base their decisions on double doubles though.

unfairweather
January 5, 2021 11:26 am
Reply to  RORDOG

Probably to some degree. I mean not for prospect evaluation, but for flailing teams to sell a move (any move) to fans.

illuminance
January 5, 2021 12:05 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Whiteside posted 15.5 pts 13.5 reb last year, and he was lucky to get the mniinum. Mid/late 1st rounder? Don’t see it.

Timmy_13
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January 5, 2021 12:56 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

I know someone who bases it off of double jumps per game.

Storm
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January 5, 2021 12:37 pm

Probably our best case scenario at this point.

I still can’t believe I managed to hype myself into believing Bags was gonna be good in his rookie season, but that’s what happens I guess when you get a little bit of hope to gnaw at after not choosing Luka

Storm
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January 5, 2021 12:35 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

He shouldn’t. Marvin’s been bad but you have to give your #2 pick the time to prove that he isn’t worth keeping

Maybe I’m going to easy on Monte but I still really feel like this is the ghost of Vlades tenure here haunting us as opposed to a mistake by McNair

TheFifthMookie
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January 5, 2021 1:17 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I give Monte a pass on that, since it came up so quickly after his hiring.

Kingsguru21
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January 5, 2021 2:27 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Monte had no choice unless you wanted a repeat of the Harry Giles situation. It’s not like teams get until the draft to make these decisions. Rookie scale deals work under an entire set of rules onto itself. And normally you have to pick up the option by October 31st which is why so many teams do. They don’t want to leave money on the table and the cost is minimal.

rc50cal
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January 5, 2021 11:37 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I really tried to be optimistic this year about Bagley. He took 7 games to break me.

GFunkClassic
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January 5, 2021 3:11 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Seems hyperbolic. Any examples of these players with BETTER numbers that get sent to G League?

oshima9
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January 5, 2021 5:23 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

I’m admittedly guessing, but Kevan Looney probably did, if only because the Warriors sent him to the G League after being drafted. So he didn’t have a chance to put up horrible numbers like Bagley.

Otis
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January 5, 2021 4:44 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Oddly enough, I was thinking about that this morning – if the G League were up and running, would Bagley already be there?

Carl
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January 5, 2021 11:24 pm
Reply to  Otis

I don’t think there’s any circumstance where they send him to the G League. I mean, his dad is whining about minutes when he’s generally played abysmally, except for about a half of one game.

(I’m assuming that Bagley is unhappy, as though this is somehow the fault of the team. Walton is terrible, but he’s not turning average players into the worst players in the NBA.)

Last edited 3 years ago by Carl
DrJohn
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January 5, 2021 9:50 am

Great write up!

RikSmits
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January 5, 2021 9:50 am

This article leaves me with one big, burning question.

Who is no. 214?

Out of 214 qualified players, Marvin Bagley ranks 213th in defensive field goal percentage, 

RikSmits
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January 5, 2021 9:52 am
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

Thanks.

Want2win
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January 5, 2021 1:19 pm
Reply to  BabyGiraffe

And I believe those are games that Marvin did better in when he played against Paul

Klam
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January 5, 2021 9:52 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Section214

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 12:28 pm
Reply to  Klam

Section215 with the downvote!comment image

King4life
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January 5, 2021 9:52 am

I’ve been an advocate of trading him since last season. The more he plays, the lower his trade value becomes. Who’s giving up anything of value for a post player who can’t post, defend, pass, or make shots?

The team would’ve been better off trading him during the offseason since there would’ve been limited tape on his game and teams could’ve potentially talked themselves into trading for his potential. Now, I’d be happy to get him off the team for a 2nd round pick. He’s a sunk cost.

Also, fuck Vlade and unretire his jersey.

JackassCentral916
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January 5, 2021 9:56 am
Reply to  King4life

I especially agree with your last sentence.

Timmy_13
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January 5, 2021 12:59 pm

Seriously. I don’t know if I’m just salty as fuck because of this goddamn franchise passing on the next great thing in the NBA or I’m morally wrong but fuck Vlade. Retired as a Laker, passed to Horry, can’t say €œflop€ without mentioning Vlade, passed on Luka, and also just a fucking idiot. I don’t want an idiot hanging at Golden1.

unfairweather
January 5, 2021 10:08 am
Reply to  King4life

Reminder: When the Kings received Derrick Williams, the #2 overall-pick power forward in his third season with questionable utility — but elite athleticism and hopes of maybe delivering on potential in a new franchise — they sent out Luc Mbah a Moute.

That’s the value for teams looking for this type of longshot lottery ticket prospect: a middling veteran on a market-level contract..

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 10:11 am
Reply to  unfairweather

lol I just said in the post game thread that the Kings could probably do a Bagley for Al-Farouq Aminu trade if the Kings were willing to include a second rounder in the deal.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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January 5, 2021 10:13 am
Reply to  unfairweather

Truth. I’ve said it a few time now, but I think Bagley’s market value is getting a meddling vet, hopefully on an expiring deal. That’s about it.

If the Kings were to trade Bagley and maximize his value, he needs to be shipped with someone like Buddy as filler.

Jman1949
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January 5, 2021 10:36 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Wouldn’t mind getting a €meddling€ vet so long as he doesn’t have a meddling dad!

Gregoryl
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January 5, 2021 10:26 am
Reply to  unfairweather

Mbah a Moute played well for us.

rc50cal
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January 5, 2021 11:39 am
Reply to  unfairweather

I’ll take it!

eddie41
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January 5, 2021 10:19 am
Reply to  King4life

How about getting Giles back for him?

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
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January 5, 2021 12:07 pm
Reply to  eddie41

So in. Harry was the right kind of young player. All determination and desire, no drama.

SMF-PDXConnection
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January 5, 2021 1:21 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Please don’t send Bagley to my backup team. I want to keep liking the Blazers.

Amonk81
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January 5, 2021 11:37 am
Reply to  King4life

Yes, yes, yes. Agree! I’ve been advocating getting rid of Bags forever. He cane in the league without a modern game and unfixable issues and he’s never going to change.

I have gotten scoffed at for pointing out the obvious…..

…..Bags was never a good NBA player, never will be, amd needs to be traded, even for nothing, because he makes the Kings worse.

And ditto-F Vlade. Get rid of Bags and Walton. Hope that Vivek stays out and the Kings can be good again.

oshima9
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January 5, 2021 5:24 pm
Reply to  King4life

If we can see it, GMs around the league can surely see it.

Falconsfury
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January 5, 2021 7:19 pm
Reply to  King4life

Also forgot bad at setting screens

154-98
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January 5, 2021 9:56 am

He has more assists than Luka has triple doubles this year.

Check mate, Vlade doubters.

/s

eddie41
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January 5, 2021 9:58 am

The Bagley bust is certainly a show! Although I do think his touch around the rim is good, I can’t argue with the other points. We’re paying good money for this show. Let’s watch it more. Encourage his father to tweet more. Get some popcorn and laugh your ass off.

andy_sims
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January 5, 2021 9:58 am

Damning stuff, to be sure.

I’ve heard talk of Charlotte sending Malik Monk and either a rookie-contract player or pick for Bagley, and I’d be inclined to take it. I don’t think Monk is ever going to be an effectively consistent NBA player, but maybe a change of scenery and culture helps both guys. Whatever the additional asset turns out to be would really be the main thing.

I still think Marvin can be a steady double-double guy, but the well is obviously poisoned here, and I’d be content to let his father play hemorrhoid to another team’s fans.

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 10:22 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Bagley + Holmes for Zeller + Riller + 2021 1st.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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January 5, 2021 10:51 am

No way the Hornets are giving up a 2021 first rounder.

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 10:55 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Looks like it may be late lottery. Heck, they may even make the playoffs. Make it protected. A mid-first to unload Zeller for a high value upgrade at C and a high upside prospect at a position of major need? Doesn’t sound so outlandish to me.

PhutureKings
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January 5, 2021 1:33 pm

I feel like I keep seeing people throwing Holmes into trade scenarios as if he’s not leading the team in PER and on arguably the best contract the Kings have on the books right now.

I’d try to keep that type of player.

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 1:54 pm
Reply to  PhutureKings

You throw Holmes into trades specifically because of those things. There seems to be a big misconception around here at times that the only reason you would trade a player is that he’s bad. The problem with that is if you only trade bad players you only get bad returns. I like Holmes a lot, and his contract is a good-to-great value. But ultimately, on a theoretical good team, he’s a fringe starter/solid role player. At the moment, the Kings are made up almost entirely of those guys. So the question remains “how are the Kings going to acquire the high-end talent they need?” It certainly isn’t going to be through FA. So it’s going to have to be through trades and draft picks. Maximizing our return in trades and/or acquiring more draft assets means trading guys with value like Holmes.

Also, because the nature of Holmes’ deal, they’re going to have a tough time re-signing him at the end of the season.

So, because he has value and he’s unlikely to stay past this season, he’s a prime candidate for a trade.

NorCalKingsFan
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January 5, 2021 6:07 pm

Totally agree, would prefer to see him remain, but he is an asset for the reasons stated and could be a necessary piece for potential trades.

Also, because the nature of Holmes’ deal, they’re going to have a tough time re-signing him at the end of the season.

Question: What specifically about his contract prevents the Kings from putting out another offer?

Timmy_13
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January 5, 2021 6:35 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

He’s likely going to command more salary, thereby reducing his value as an asset.

Also lots of suitors for him. I agree that he and other €œgood€ expiring contracts would be prime trade baits.

CoreyBrewersD
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January 5, 2021 1:02 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

So MJ gets the real and the Dollar Tree LaVar to contend with! I see a reality show!!

LLcoolRay
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January 5, 2021 10:02 am

Anyone who knows me at all knows that I’ve not been a fan of Bagley’s game from the very beginning.
I’ve always worried about his effectiveness because of the fact that his entire game revolves around him being athletic – even his rebounding is mainly good because he outjumps other big men, not because he is good at boxing out.
And yet, despite being athletic, he gets beat on defense consistently because he is too slow to react.

I got shit for comparing his game to Thomas Robinson in that regard but man is he starting to look like it this season.

It’s still early days and I really hope he turns it around and makes me look stupid but all of this paired with his injury problems and his dad’s insanity don’t make me feel great. All this said, I still don’t think we should trade him unless there is some super surprising offer that comes along.

jlandweh
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January 5, 2021 10:06 am

My problems with Marvin Bagley extend WAY beyond his performance.

As a fan base, we would give him a tremendous amount of lee-way if he did some crucial things. He doesn’t hit the deck for a loose ball, he doesn’t celebrate with his teammates, he shows little to no passion about winning basketball in the crucial points. He plays selfishly and too many times tries to play hero ball. Finally, his father publically requested a trade after 2 good games and a few mediocre/poor games.

I think my sentiments are not singular. We wanted to like Marvin. He was our 2nd overall pick. He isn’t Luka, but we all wanted to see him succeed and prosper as a great running mate next to Fox and Haliburton. However; all of these factors show that he isn’t and doesn’t want to be. At this point, you almost have to trade Bagley or the tank will continue to roll…which isn’t exactly a bad thing.

Excited to see the plan McNair has. Lord knows, Sacramento is desperate for just competitive, fun basketball.

02kingsfan
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January 5, 2021 12:34 pm
Reply to  jlandweh

So sad that Bagley can’t even be poor man version of enes kanter….

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 1:20 pm
Reply to  02kingsfan

if you want to get real sad check out Bagley’s player comps on 538’s player projection tool.

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 1:42 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Stop the count!

PhutureKings
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January 5, 2021 1:44 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

If you want to be even more sad, look at Luka’s.

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 2:06 pm
Reply to  PhutureKings

4-point swing!

We turned it over, and the other team capitalized.

oshima9
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January 5, 2021 5:29 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Yes, a must read. I particularly enjoyed Drew Gooden.

RikSmits
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January 5, 2021 10:15 am
Last edited 3 years ago by RikSmits
RikSmits
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January 5, 2021 10:37 am
Reply to  RikSmits

How does this get a downvote? I am seriously puzzled.

A Poku or Kylian Hayes fan?
Will?

Last edited 3 years ago by RikSmits
Jman1949
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January 5, 2021 10:39 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Because they told us there would be no math?

Bbmuteman
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January 5, 2021 11:58 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Deni fan. 😉

ManilaBayCleanerCrew
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January 5, 2021 9:10 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Must be Team Bagley’s burner TKH account.

Marty
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January 5, 2021 10:56 am
Reply to  RikSmits

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RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 11:03 am
Reply to  Marty

the kings would have a pretty decent starting 5 if they went with Fox/Haliburton/JJ/Barnes/Holmes

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 11:06 am
Reply to  RORDOG

I’m not sure any lineup with Justin James can be considered decent unless it has a couple top 10 guys playing next to him.

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 11:15 am

lol I just think it’s funny the kings have like 4 total players that you can classify as “not bad.” James got thrown in there because his face is like the bullseye on that graph. If Jeffries was healthy, I would’ve thrown him in there.

Also, can we start calling Marvin “Bagley Island?”

ForKingsandCountry
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January 5, 2021 11:57 am
Reply to  RORDOG

To be fair, I think this is what we all sort of expected when the year started right? That this team would be really bad with the exception of Fox, Richaun and maybe the rookie is pretty good? Personally this is about exactly what I would have expected. I do think getting Haliburton back in the lineup will make a huge difference though. I think his impact on wins and losses is far greater than anyone on the team outside of maybe Fox. I get he’s a rookie but he’s already been really freaking good.

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 12:51 pm

Yeah I guess I’m actually a little surprised that Bagley and Buddy have been this bad. They both tend to be a little streaky, but they’ve been so bad. Bagley seems to always start slow after a long layoff, and Buddy tends to run hot and cold, so I guess this isn’t that surprising in hindsight.

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 1:13 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

They’ve been bad, but it’s still just 7 games.

andy_sims
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January 5, 2021 1:27 pm

A fact which is entirely relevant

Carl
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January 5, 2021 4:57 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Bagley’s offensive numbers will improve some to below average to possibly average. His defensive numbers will improve to bad from abysmal, and his passing numbers will continue to be terrible. Rebounding will be good.

Counting stats will impress people not paying attention. Hold me to it: This still isn’t a good basketball player.

Last edited 3 years ago by Carl
oshima9
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January 5, 2021 5:31 pm
Reply to  Carl

I see you are an optimist.

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Nostradumbass 14
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January 5, 2021 11:06 am
Reply to  Marty

comment image

Last edited 3 years ago by Adamsite
RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 11:28 am
Reply to  RikSmits

DiVincenzo and Doncic are hanging out together taunting us

Timmy_13
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January 5, 2021 1:46 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Looks like Monte had the right mind regarding Divincenzo. Damn

Adamsite
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January 5, 2021 12:49 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

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Adamsite
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January 5, 2021 12:51 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

So there are like 3 to 4 player worse than Marvin right now…IN THE ENTIRE NBA.

https://twitter.com/NBA_Math/status/1346231837597683713

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 12:55 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Boban is just happy to hang out with some friends
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RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 1:15 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

that’s actually generous. According to bball reference, Bagley has the second worst VORP (-.3) in the NBA. That’s crazy bad this early in the season. Someone good at math can probably get the exact number, but if Bagley maintained this level of awfulness and MPG over the course of a 72 game season, then he could single-handedly reduce the team’s win total by like ~8 wins.

ForKingsandCountry
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January 5, 2021 3:44 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

TANK COMMANDER

NorCalKingsFan
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January 5, 2021 6:16 pm

Staph Sgt. Bagley

ImJoeKing
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January 6, 2021 6:37 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Welp, at least we know where Bagley Island is located now. Just start on this chart and go south.

ZillersCat
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January 5, 2021 11:58 am
Reply to  Marty

That seems to be skewing Kings?

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
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January 5, 2021 12:08 pm
Reply to  Marty

Holy cow.

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 12:15 pm
Reply to  Marty

comment image

Last edited 3 years ago by Kosta
Storm
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January 5, 2021 12:53 pm
Reply to  Kosta

There’s no Z axis to show how many players have a III in their name, therefore this list is dangerous misinformation

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 1:13 pm
Reply to  Storm

Damn. Good catch, haha 🙂

ScottyPop
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January 5, 2021 3:08 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Thanks for the laughs. Classic.

Paolo6
January 5, 2021 10:23 am

It’s frustrating! Bagley looks more like a BUST then a starter in this team. 0 I say 0 defense, 0 impact in the game, 0 intensity. His only good quality, offense in the post, disappear to became a package of offensives fouls and tournovers. And Doncic… Let him go, let his father go as well in a minor basketball league in Asia or in China. He doesn’t deserve his minutes before learning to be HUMBLE.

Reluctantkingfan
January 5, 2021 10:32 am

Great article. Completely agree that scoring, or lack their of, is one of the many flaws in his game. When it improves, there’s so much more work to do. Not making excuses here, but I don’t think he’s 100% recovered from his injuries. Watch some tape of his rookie season to now, looks considerably less explosive. Anyways, if you’re the Kings, you’ve gotta play him. Worst case scenario, his poor play results in more losses in a forgettable, fan-less 2020-2021 season and a better draft pick in what many say is a loaded draft. Best case scenario, he finds his scoring touch and we ship him and Buddy off to a team in exchange for draft picks. This team needs high iq players..Barnes, Hali and Fox fit the mold…build from there.

eurostep
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January 5, 2021 10:33 am

Great article! After reading it, there is no way to defend Bagley. For a number 2 pick he has been terrible and it may be too late to change anything about his game. Trade him for whatever you can get and move on.

RikSmits
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January 5, 2021 10:35 am
Reply to  eurostep

Actually, it is quite easy to defend Bagley. Make him go right.

LandParkJimmer
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January 5, 2021 10:35 am
Reply to  RikSmits

This made me chuckle – thank you!

eurostep
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January 5, 2021 11:03 am
Reply to  RikSmits

lol. That’s a good one.

02kingsfan
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January 5, 2021 12:37 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Thinking about it, he hasn’t done the €œright€ thing since being drafted…..

LandParkJimmer
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January 5, 2021 10:35 am

Bagley sucks. Send Bagley to the G-League.

PlayoffModeT
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January 5, 2021 11:21 am
Reply to  LandParkJimmer

Honestly, I think the G-League is best for him. He can play a ton of minutes and get humbled. Maybe his shot goes in more? Maybe it shows him that he needs to change something? Or he just gets traded and hopefully, we can move on soon.

itsjabby
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January 5, 2021 12:39 pm
Reply to  LandParkJimmer

Are the Kings participating in G-League this year? I know it starts closer to March but I thought not all teams were participating.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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January 5, 2021 12:47 pm
Reply to  itsjabby

There has been no news on that front. I do know the Stockton Kings declined to participate in the G-League bubble in Florida. For all I know, they may not even have a season.

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 12:52 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

they don’t even have a coach!

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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January 5, 2021 12:54 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

LOL…KANGZ!

I wonder what happens to the two-way players once they hit game 50?

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 1:17 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

they just can’t suit up I think. I think they got rid of the rule that the players can’t be with the main team the other games/days.

4on5
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January 5, 2021 10:40 am

He’s abysmal on defense, in several regards … effort, instinct, and skill. If he was decent at defense, he could be a rich man’s Keon Clark. Despite his lack of shooting and face up play making skills, as he gets stronger, he could be a serviceable center if he wasn’t terrible at defense. But, no matter how strong he gets, no team can be competitive with him as the anchor of their defense at this point.

Making him a 4 man means he’s not the primary anchor of the defense, but also requires him to improve his defense and make massive play making, passing and shooting gains that seem very unlikely.

You see fans say things like €œhe’s young€ €œhe needs time,€ €œhe will get stronger,€ or €œhis shooting will improve.€ But his path forward is more like trying to draw an inside straight than just needing time and normal development.

reydarly
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January 5, 2021 10:44 am

Bagley ruins Fox’s game when you think about it. They are both lefties and want to go left. Bagley clogs up the left side of the paint. Teams can just load up the left side and handicap our offense with both of them on the floor.

Bagley himself needs to stop going to the post against bigs until he gains more functional strength. The kind you get from squatting, benching and deadlifts. More spot up mid range jumpers and playing from the triple threat position on opposing bigs for now, please.

andy_sims
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January 5, 2021 1:30 pm
Reply to  reydarly

Hah, sure, because a guy who primarily moves from right to left approaching the basket would definitely hang out on the left side of the paint.

GhostMalone
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January 5, 2021 4:47 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Yea left handed post players normally like the right block haha

Marty
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January 5, 2021 10:52 am

This

When coming off of the pick, he either somehow manages to run straight toward the guard

TerzoM
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January 5, 2021 11:05 am
Reply to  Marty

Cringeworthy every time

LesJepsen3pointer
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January 5, 2021 10:55 am

Dang. Now that’s a takedown.

Dirkula
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January 5, 2021 1:50 pm

70CAFCCB-1FD0-47A0-80AE-93D965496C7D.gif
Kosta
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January 5, 2021 10:57 am

Metu World Peace wasn’t too shabby last night.

SunBreakTheDawn
January 5, 2021 1:01 pm
Reply to  Kosta

I’m on the Metu train. He’s got legit skills and plays hard.

AmateurNerd
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January 5, 2021 10:57 am

If Bagley becomes a successful NBA player, it won’t be in Sacramento. His ball-hogging, aloofness, and lack of development (suggesting a lack of maturity) have, along with his meddling family, poisoned the well for him here. Get whatever you can for him ASAP; it will be addition by subtraction. He’s been dragged through the mud for the past week in the media, and none of his teammates have come to his defense, which speaks volumes.

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 10:58 am
Reply to  AmateurNerd

If he gets traded, I hope he won’t feel be-traded.

Kingsguru21
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January 5, 2021 4:54 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Bogi’d.

TerzoM
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January 5, 2021 10:58 am

Ugh a painful read. We fans will have some good days and probably more bad days. However with Monte at the helm and Tyrese H to watch, I like the light at the end of the tunnel(s) in a few years.

deltarich
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January 5, 2021 10:59 am

Never forget

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TerzoM
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January 5, 2021 11:03 am
Reply to  deltarich

Blooooodyyyyy…. Divac

Gregoryl
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January 5, 2021 11:06 am
Reply to  deltarich

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Kosta
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January 5, 2021 11:21 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

All other NBA franchises were pissed when Vlade wasn’t retained by the Kings.

G-naps
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January 5, 2021 11:37 am
Reply to  Kosta

And now look at all those teams clamoring over one another to bring Vlade in for an interview.

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 11:20 am
Reply to  deltarich

Vlade screwed over the Kings, Kings fans, AND Marvin with that selection.

reydarly
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January 5, 2021 11:57 am
Reply to  Kosta

He screwed the pooch on that pick so bad. Luka was the obvious pick. But no Vlade had to get cute. No one is battering Ayton getting drafted before Luka. Why? Because he was the obvious pick and he actually can play NBA basketball. His main knock was that he just needed a good point guard to help reach his potential, which the Suns didn’t have at the time. This situation is more akin to the Olajuwan/Jordan draft. Where everyone would take Jordan first in a redraft but the Hakeem selection isn’t completely scoffed at.

KGB-Ball
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January 5, 2021 2:14 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Screwed himself, too.

If he’d simply drafted the consensus #2 pick in 2018, he’d still have a job today.

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 3:05 pm
Reply to  KGB-Ball

true

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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January 5, 2021 12:46 pm
Reply to  deltarich

Man, I’d love to know where Bagley was on the draft board of other teams drafting in 2018.

Otis
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January 5, 2021 4:52 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Hard to know, of course. But he was very highly rated on most boards coming into the draft.

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 5:14 pm
Reply to  Otis

I would assume most teams had him in the 3-6 range.

Hobby916
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January 5, 2021 11:15 am

How much of that rebounding percentage are his own misses? With such a terrible shooting percentage, he has to be benefitting from his own ineptitude at the rim.

I say throw out Woodard and Metu and see what they can do. Maybe Bagley will see that and make a positive adjustment. If he sulks and does not improve, further solidifies the reasons to trade him

unfairweather
January 5, 2021 11:36 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Rebounding own misses? That’s the Second Jump„¢, baby!

Last edited 3 years ago by unfairweather
Marty
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January 5, 2021 1:59 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

A B S O L U T E L Y

on one possession he was standing under the rim, got the rebound, went up, got blocked, rebounded, went up again, got blocked and fouled, and went to the free-throw line.

Mark Jones; €œlook at that effort by Bagley!€

SMH

1951
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January 5, 2021 2:59 pm
Reply to  Marty

Jones and Christie gushing over him constantly is getting a bit tiresome.

I mean, he goes one for two from the stripe and they are like, “that is tremendous form for a big man. So much talent there.”

Otis
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January 5, 2021 4:54 pm
Reply to  1951

They seemingly do that with everyone though. Doug’s still so bad – I’m surprised he didn’t give Bagley kudos for tripping on that fast break last night.

Marty
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January 5, 2021 6:15 pm
Reply to  Otis

Yea it’s my first year with the broadcast in some time, and I’m already done with Doug.

SMF-PDXConnection
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January 5, 2021 2:24 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I’ve only seen (or at least paid enough attention for it to register) one Bagley play.

In one of the Houston games, during the second quarter. Fox runs across halfcourt, Bagley trails. Fox passes the ball as Bagley gets near the key. Bagley takes the ball, pounds it for TEN SECONDS backing down a smaller player, then tried a hook shot from around the free throw line that bounced off the front rim.

Think I turned off the game sometime within ten seconds of that

BeTheBall
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January 5, 2021 3:23 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

How much of that rebounding percentage are his own misses? 

Ah, the ol’ Boogie Board

lazlohollyfeld
January 5, 2021 11:23 am

About as rough an assessment as I have ever seen on a player in any publication. But those numbers are eye-popping awful. I knew he wasn’t playing well, but had no idea his numbers with this bad. Hard to believe a player from Duke comes into the NBA without any of these basic skills and still gets a glowing review from Krzyzewski that essentially says he was worth the second pick. I know he had only one year at Duke, but one would hope he would learn something. I look at players like Christian Wood and watch him develop in his third year into someone who may make an all-star team this year and there is no way Houston would consider trading him for Bagley unless Fox was thrown in (and still they would have to give that some thought). I still say give him more time to end up like Anthony Bennet or Kwame Brown and let him pass around the League showing he can toss the ball at the basket and follow up with a missed tip . He doesn’t have Krzyewski coaching him and the team is a jumbled mess with everyone out playing for themselves as evidenced by the dropping assist number. They’re a lost team, mired in their 14th makeover, aimlessly led by a coach over his head, directed by an owner that should stick to his business or sell the team, and up until this year, was led for five years by a general manager who should have stuck to being a fan favorite player rather than running a front office. In other words, what’s the point in getting too exercised about him?

RikSmits
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January 5, 2021 11:45 am
Reply to  lazlohollyfeld

and still gets a glowing review from Krzyzewski that essentially says he was worth the second pick.

That people actually bought that stuff still amazes me. Of course coach K will pimp up his guys. Helps with recruiting.

Amonk81
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January 5, 2021 11:51 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Yes. As I was yelling to deaf ears€”-Coach K did the exact same thing with Okafor (Ofor4). Another without a modern NBA game/D etc.

some things are obvious. Bags not having an NBA game was obvious. And fucking Vlade could have picked almost anyone else at gotten better. JJJ anyone.

Want2win
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January 5, 2021 1:40 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

Could have received a draft pick and drafted JJJ

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 1:59 pm
Reply to  Want2win

Could have received a draft pick and draft Bagley if they wanted him that badly. I don’t see any reason to think ATL or MEM would have taken him.

Ccc
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Ccc
January 5, 2021 11:24 am

Great argument.
Bagleys offensive rebounding numbers are good only because he is getting his own missed layups.

Hobby916
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January 5, 2021 12:17 pm
Reply to  Ccc

Rebounds better than a Coke machine. That has to be worth something.

BeTheBall
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January 5, 2021 3:21 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Oddly (sadly) the one thing his does ok with, is the only area where he’s better than a Coke machine.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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January 5, 2021 12:42 pm
Reply to  Ccc

Yup. As good as his rebounding numbers are, they’re artificially inflated by his own misses at the rim. I don’t recall which game it was but I distinctly saw him miss three bunny tips at the rim all in the same possession. The box score would show three offensive rebounds, but that stat totally lacks context.

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 2:44 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

As much as I don’t believe Bagley will ever be an impact player, I fully expect his inside shooting to come around and he is an above average rebounder even without the self-putbacks.

reydarly
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January 5, 2021 11:37 am

At this rate, I would consider any deal that trades a half eaten tv dinner and late second round pick for Bagley a complete con job on our part. He has been that bad. But hey, keep playing him and letting him have high usage. I will gladly take Cade as a consolation for our suffering.

Last edited 3 years ago by Daryl Adams
Kingsguru21
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January 5, 2021 4:53 pm
Reply to  reydarly

I believe Bagley could still be an impact player, but man it’s tough to see with how things are going atm.

oshima9
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January 5, 2021 5:39 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Actually, Bagley is an impact player, just not in the way that the term is commonly understood.

Kingsguru21
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January 5, 2021 8:30 pm
Reply to  oshima9

Positive impact player.

extra
January 5, 2021 11:49 am

As I see it, one reason that his numbers are bad is because he is predictable and stubborn. For instances, he gets tunnel vision in the post. Even when the defense doubles him in the post he’ll try to muscle his way to the basket (and often turn it over) as opposed to kicking it out so the team can circulate the ball to the open man. It’s like he doesn’t understand that his tunnel vision makes him easy to defend. Another trait that has become predictable is that when he gets beat badly on defense he often goes immediately at the player that beat him, like he’s playing a one-on-one game against the other team’s big man. He makes the same mistakes now that he did in his rookie season.

andy_sims
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January 5, 2021 12:05 pm

Despite all of it, he’s still got to have 30+ minutes a game. As long as he’s on the roster, a vigorous and unflagging effort to develop him must be the plan. He’s been awful, but I don’t believe that he’s anywhere close to this bad.

He’s an asset, albeit one with low value at this point. I don’t think that he should be given away for nothing, which isn’t to say that the return has to be a high pick or promising young player. At this point, the Kings have little leverage to demand a whole lot. But while he’s on the roster, with the playoffs not a legitimate goal, and with such a highly-regarded draft class in sight, you ride this horse until you absolutely know what you’ve got. If he improves, you’ve checked off one of the long-term goals for the franchise. If he sucks, you have a better opportunity to draft his replacement.

Under Joerger, Marvin showed a great deal of promise, and was productive when healthy. Playing for Lose Walton is not doing him or anyone else any favors. Having said that, Marvin has got to show indicators that he’s making concrete advances on the fundamentals at both ends. He must have the opportunity to grow, or play himself out of the league.

It’s not his fault that he was drafted at #2, despite every indication that at least one better player was available. It is his fault if he is unable to grow enough to become a solid, consistent rotation player. He has the physical tools, the rest is up to him.

02kingsfan
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January 5, 2021 12:47 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

It’s Lose Alton, without the W

Otis
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January 5, 2021 4:58 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Yep, completely agreed. Trade him, waive him, whatever. But if he’s on the roster, he should get playing time. Three quarters of his minutes in the NBA showed solid potential, under a decent HC.

Frankly, I’m shocked that so many people are anti-Bagley getting minutes. The Venn diagram overlap of people here who want Bagley on the bench yet want the team to tank for next year’s draft is actually pretty swole.

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 5:45 pm
Reply to  Otis

comment image

Kingsguru21
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January 5, 2021 8:31 pm
Reply to  Kosta

This is hilarious.

Otis
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January 6, 2021 4:38 am
Reply to  Kosta

Source: Otis

🙂

oshima9
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January 5, 2021 5:46 pm
Reply to  Otis

I agree to an extent, but there comes a point where a coach loses a team if a player is allowed to play a lot of minutes without executing basic team offense and defense requirements. So, I can see the minutes Bagley gets now, but if he wants to get over 30 and play meaningful minutes in the 4th, he has to show that he understands what the coaches want him to do, and try to do it on the floor.

Right now, he doesn’t, he looks lost. And, if you reward that with more minutes, the other players started thinking, he doesn’t do what the coach says, why should I?

Carl
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January 5, 2021 11:31 pm
Reply to  Otis

Yep, completely agreed. Trade him, waive him, whatever. But if he’s on the roster, he should get playing time.

Agreed.

Three quarters of his minutes in the NBA showed solid potential, under a decent HC.

Do not agree. Maybe I’m revising history, but Bagley always looked like a high-usage, low efficiency stat stuffer to me.

Otis
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January 6, 2021 4:37 am
Reply to  Carl

You were among a few, then:

https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2019/5/21/18632571/sacramento-kings-grade-the-season-marvin-bagley

And full disclosure, I’ve never seen him (and still don’t) as much more than that – UNLESS he developed the ability to become a stretch big.

BestHyperboleEver
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January 6, 2021 9:05 am
Reply to  Otis

Personally, despite his current struggles, I’ve always seen him as a high-floor, low-ish ceiling garbage man type. Which I think he will be. Basically a guy that rebounds, finishes, and attacks close-outs. His willingness to embrace his role within the team concept and play to his strengths will be the deciding factor in exactly how impactful his is in his teams ultimate success. But either way, he’ll be a useful NBA player.

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
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January 5, 2021 12:05 pm

How many triple-doubles does Doncic have now?

Nevermind don’t answer that.

02kingsfan
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January 5, 2021 12:48 pm

26 and I am not joking. Bagley career double double? 24. Can’t make that up even if I wanted to

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
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January 6, 2021 7:27 am
Reply to  02kingsfan

*Sobs into Fox jersey*

Dirkula
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January 5, 2021 1:55 pm

NBA 2020-21: Luka Doncic 4th fastest player in NBA history to reach 1,000 points, rebounds, and assists

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
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January 6, 2021 7:29 am
Reply to  Dirkula

That’s great but I heard Vlade and his Dad don’t like each other…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Bill2455
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January 5, 2021 12:13 pm

If I had to make a bet on either:

Marvin Bagley being a significant contributor to another team’s championship run in the next 5 years or
The Kings being a top 4 seed in the next 5 years

My money would be on Marvin.

KingofNOthing
January 5, 2021 1:20 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

Um, how about neither, but if i had to chose, its not even close, Marvin doesnt have a position in the NBA that he can play on a non playoff team, and he sure as hell isnt gonna contribute to a winner. I remember one of the analysis of Marvin`s game was 20-10 stats player on a bad team. Turns out that was generous…

Last edited 3 years ago by KingofNOthing
andy_sims
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January 5, 2021 1:34 pm
Reply to  KingofNOthing

I love it when people type out “Um.”

“You know that thing that people utter when they’ve lost their train of thought, and are stalling for time? I should absolutely include that when I’m typing.”

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
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January 6, 2021 7:30 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Um, um, um, nevermind. 😉

Bill2455
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January 5, 2021 1:50 pm
Reply to  KingofNOthing

Ben Wallace was not much in Orlando… nor was Kyle Lowry when in Orlando… nor was Jermaine O’Neal in Portland… we will see. I like my odds.

unfairweather
January 5, 2021 1:59 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

KON’s point wasn’t that players can’t become important players on a Championship team after an unsuccessful stint. It is more specific to Bagley in that the complimentary role-type skills that Championship-level teams need to fill the gaps are also the biggest holes in Marvin’s game.

Bill2455
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January 5, 2021 2:02 pm
Reply to  unfairweather

Different coach, different management, different city.. we will see.

unfairweather
January 5, 2021 2:28 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

Different Dad?

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 2:23 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

I guess it depends on the odds

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 2:25 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

There’s way too much random chance involved here to really be worth discussing. Much less betting about. Neither of those things are likely to happen. Obviously, a very small percentage of even very good players win championships. Is there a chance Bagley ends up in the rotation of one of them? Sure. Significant contributor? That would depend on your definition of “significant contributor.” As for the Kings, only 8 different teams have gotten a top 4 seed in the West in the past 5 seasons. There doesn’t tend to be a lot of turnover in that top tier over the course of 5 years. So also very unlikely.

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 2:30 pm

yeah it’s like if Houston had gone farther in the bubble, then would that have made Ben McLemore a significant contributor on the Rockets championship run?

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 2:36 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Tristan Thompson and JR Smith were starters on a championship team. Would anybody actually call them good NBA players? Literally every player below LeBron and AD on the Lakers team sheet could have been replaced by replacement level players and it probably wouldn’t have significantly changed the outcome. So, could Bagley be the next Norris Cole? Sure. Why not.

Which leads me to wonder who the worst player to get over 1000 minutes for a championship team was.

Last edited 3 years ago by BestHyperboleEver
02kingsfan
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January 5, 2021 12:28 pm

I think it’s crazy that despite all these numbers you pointed here being so bad, there are actually players that are worse than him

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
January 5, 2021 12:39 pm
Reply to  02kingsfan

Really, who? The list can’t be that long.

02kingsfan
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January 5, 2021 1:24 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I was referencing each stats-like defensive field goal percentage. Also if he was ranked in the 13th percentile wouldn’t that mean 13% of the league players perform worse than he does in that one category?

Carl
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January 5, 2021 5:09 pm
Reply to  02kingsfan

Not sure if Tim controlled for minutes in his (outstanding!) analysis. It may be that the guys behind Bagley have only played a few minutes this season.

Sir_tajj
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January 5, 2021 12:35 pm

I know it’s off topic but, man. I just lost some respect for Bogi and his comments about being clueless to the bucks deal. NBA investigation already determined that either he or his agent spoke to the bucks before free agency opened. Unless the NBA is lying and slapping fines on teams for optics, which I don’t know why the bucks would go along with, it makes no sense for him to make those comments.

itsjabby
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January 5, 2021 12:53 pm
Reply to  Sir_tajj

Innocent until proven guilty I guess. He is taking that one to the grave.

andy_sims
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January 5, 2021 1:35 pm
Reply to  Sir_tajj

Bogi and his agent are both full of shit.

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 1:47 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

It Boggles the mind to think they had no knowledge of what was happening.

BeTheBall
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January 5, 2021 1:51 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Yeah, his “this caught me by complete surprise” doesn’t jive with what he also said in that article: that the team had talked to he and his agent about looking at the trade market, and they said fine. If you told them you were fine with shopping, why are you surprised by a deal?

Kingsguru21
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January 5, 2021 4:57 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

The whole thing struck me as Bogi being mad Vlade wasn’t the GM cuz he didn’t get his money. Which I get……. but a 4-72 deal with a full 15% trade kicker ain’t a bad fallback, either.

Last edited 3 years ago by Kingsguru21
BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 5:05 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

And, of course, ATL is playing pretty okay basketball so far.

GFunkClassic
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January 5, 2021 5:12 pm

Not so much because of anything Bogi is doing. His numbers are down across the board.

Otis
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January 5, 2021 5:22 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

Maybe a few games ago, but only his assist rate appears to be down from last season.

TS% – up
3p% – up
Rebounding rate – up

Kingsguru21
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January 5, 2021 8:42 pm
Reply to  Otis

Bogi’s value is up……..but his WS/48 is still under .100. His DRtg in Atlanta is 112….after 3 years in Sac it was 113.

I still want to see where his numbers are 20 games in. I would assume most of the noise is gone by then.

Kingsguru21
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January 5, 2021 8:36 pm

Yeah. It must be suffering in basketball hell to have to play with Trae Young. I really don’t know how Bogi does it.

LesJepsen3pointer
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January 5, 2021 12:55 pm

Marvin Bagley and the Vindication of Dave Joerger, a novel.

Remember when we fired a coach because he insisted on rookies earning minutes? That was fun.

Gojira2021
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January 5, 2021 1:01 pm

The early scouting reports were correct about Bagley’s “lack of instinct” on the defensive end. Numerous articles have pointed out that Coach K switched to a 2-3 zone defense because Bagley lacked instinct to guard one-on-one and would get constantly scorched off of the pick-and-roll. Unfortunately Bagley’s “lack of instinct” still prevails today, which begs the question…why on earth did Vlade draft Bagley? Instead of trying to alleviate the Kings defensive issues, Vlade only seemed to add to the problem. Hopefully McNair has something up his sleeve in regards to getting rid of Bagley. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

eddie41
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January 5, 2021 1:14 pm
Reply to  Gojira2021

Partly footwork also. Any reasonably coordinated child in grammar school who has played one year of soccer or tennis already has better footwork that can translate to the basketball court than Bagley’s footwork.

eddie41
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January 5, 2021 2:55 pm
Reply to  eddie41

I mean, you got kids in Laos in playing volleyball with only their feet. I played a pickup soccer game in the mountains and a high school kid did a flying bicycle kick for a goal, and no one acted like it was a big deal.

oshima9
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January 5, 2021 5:51 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Sadly, this is true. Soccer does wonders for kids who end up playing basketball later, kids develop great lateral movement and learn how to see the pitch from side to side, end to end, which translates amazingly to the court.

02kingsfan
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January 5, 2021 1:26 pm
Reply to  Gojira2021

He also went from lack of €œinstinct€ to €œinterest€ and that bothers me a lot

Want2win
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January 5, 2021 1:15 pm

Great and depressing article… maybe he will do better in second unit to gain confidence

SMF-PDXConnection
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January 5, 2021 1:24 pm

Of course, there is one area in which Marvin has been relatively successful this season: rebounding. His 10.8% offensive reboudning rate is good enough for the 82nd percentile among big men, and his defensive rebounding doesn’t fall far behind, sitting in the 71st percentile.

So, basically, he’s Reggie Evans if Reggie Evans thought he was Kevin Durant.

unfairweather
January 5, 2021 1:27 pm

He’s no Reggie. Evans had an absurd career 15% ORB% and 29% DRB%.

SMF-PDXConnection
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January 5, 2021 2:25 pm
Reply to  unfairweather

You’re right, I’ve insulted Reggie Evans with the comparison. My bad.

ForKingsandCountry
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January 5, 2021 3:53 pm

Right now he’s basically Thomas Robinson. Except maybe worse.

Otis
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January 5, 2021 5:04 pm

This notion is actually pretty easy to dispel with a quick stat search.

Carl
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January 5, 2021 5:12 pm
Reply to  Otis

I haven’t looked at the stats, but on a guess, Bagley is a little more offensively efficient and has better counting stats, and is the same or worse than Robinson in literally every other area.

Last edited 3 years ago by Carl
Otis
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January 5, 2021 5:29 pm
Reply to  Carl

Are we talking about these seven games or career to this point? Bagley’s been a lot more offensively efficient at a significantly higher volume.

I mean, I watched a lot of Thomas Robinson, and all he did was rebound. He didn’t really try to do anything else, and when he did, he’d turn the ball over.

Comparing these guys with a straight face is just Kings fans piling on at this point.

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 10:32 pm
Reply to  Otis

Bagley isn’t TRob. Bagley is a player that necessitates being built around, but isn’t good enough to build around. He’s Costco Brand Boogie.

RORDOG
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January 5, 2021 10:32 pm
Reply to  RORDOG

Kirkland Cousins?

Carl
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January 5, 2021 11:42 pm
Reply to  Otis

OK, so compared to Robinson, Bagley is offensively more efficient, less turnover prone, has a significantly lower assist percentage on much higher usage, worse defensive rating, worse rebounder, better shot blocker.

I wasn’t that far off.

I think Bagley will probably stick in the league because he may someday get to average offensively and is a good rebounder, in spite of doing pretty much everything else poorly. I maintain that half of the problem is in his head. He either can’t learn how to help his team or doesn’t care to, both of which are bad.

Last edited 3 years ago by Carl
BabalooMagoo
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January 5, 2021 1:38 pm

Can someone get Jack Cooley’s phone number for Monte?

aplumley
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January 5, 2021 1:44 pm

This is almost as painful to read as it is watching it in real life.

eddie41
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January 5, 2021 1:52 pm
Reply to  aplumley

Yeah, Kings fans have been living a Kafka novel since Adelman was fired.

Kosta
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January 5, 2021 2:11 pm
Reply to  eddie41

I was thinking maybe more of a Kaka novel, but maybe that’s too scatalogical.

1951
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January 5, 2021 2:18 pm

No one could have predicted this. No one.

It’s Marvin’s complete lack of ability to impact any other part of the game 

CoreyBrewersD
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January 5, 2021 3:17 pm

There has to something better to talk about. MB3 can’t be worse than last night. Lets hope for less pops and more growth.

Last edited 3 years ago by CoreyBrewersD
frn
frn
January 5, 2021 3:23 pm

I just don’t understand why a team like the King’s would not pour all there efforts into scouting and player development. We are a small market team that free agents won’t sign with unless they get a big payday or on there last leg. We have nothing of value for trades and if we did any good player would refuse the trade some way or another. In my opinion the only way we get better is to develop young players.

BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 4:18 pm
Reply to  frn

It isn’t the market size that’s stopping big FAs from signing Sac.

1951
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January 5, 2021 4:25 pm
Reply to  frn

While I think the general concept is fair, I don’t get this conclusion for the players that don’t work out. Fox is developing. Haliburton seems to be developing. Heck, even Buddy improved in many facets of the game since coming over from OKC.

Pushing further back, Boogie and IT “developed” in Sacramento.

Maybe the difference between the ITs of the world and the Jimmers isn’t a lack of an opportunity to develop. Maybe some of it is the quality of the player, no?

I have no doubt that Luka would have “developed” quite nicely in Sacramento, or Trae Young, or Shai or JJJ or Donovan Mitchell, etc.

But yes, on scouting and draft decision making, I am right with you!

Last edited 3 years ago by 1951
BestHyperboleEver
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January 5, 2021 5:02 pm
Reply to  1951

Honestly, I think a BIG part of player development IS scouting. Specifically identifying the players with the capacity and desire to improve and adjust. I really don’t think there are any teams that are meaningfully better than any other teams at helping Fox with his shot, or Buddy with his handle. But I do think there are teams that are better at:

  1. Identifying players with the capacity for major improvement in key areas.
  2. Identifying players who fit their team/system
  3. Putting those players in a situation to succeed where they are able to play to their strengths while they develop their weaknesses.
1951
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January 5, 2021 5:06 pm

100% agree. That’s why I focus on scouting/evaluation. It’s all about the decision makers to me, and it’s pretty clear that Sacramento has sucked since Vivek took over simply because the Chairman has made bad BB decisions and employed bad decision makers.

I tend to think that the post-decision “development” side of the equation is over rated and that the Kings have, by all accounts, employed plenty of good assistants and development coaches.

Despite a few hits, they just generally suck at picking the right players.

1951
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January 5, 2021 5:17 pm
Reply to  1951

Also, I just saw that I typed OKC, not NO.

[Oh well gif]

GhostMalone
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January 5, 2021 4:31 pm

Stop! He’s already dead!

1951
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January 5, 2021 5:00 pm

Tim Maxwell and all you hater sheeple are just meany mean-heads! Stats = hate. Stop the stats, stop the hate!

https://twitter.com/_Tyler_Jennings/status/1346593653544742912

GFunkClassic
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January 5, 2021 5:19 pm
Reply to  1951

I like Tyler’s post. Nothing wrong with a little positivity. It does actually seem as some are rooting for his failure.

NorCalKingsFan
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January 5, 2021 6:41 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

I don’t see any posts explicitly rooting for him to fail as much as I see a bunch of “we all knew he would fail” remarks, which are mostly true based on the results to date.

There really is no way of defending Bagley here because so many of his failings are in regards to effort. He doesn’t seem to care or try all that hard. I don’t think Bagley enjoys playing basketball anymore.

This is like when someone shows up at Coffee & Cars in their new 2004 Chevrolet SSR. You want to laugh at them, but they are so serious about how awesome their car is, it just becomes sad (offense meant to any current or former SSR owners out there).

Otis
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January 6, 2021 4:46 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I think the “failings are in regard to effort” comments are a branch off the “rooting for him to fail” tree.

I don’t really see it, but I do see a guy that looks completely lost and awkward in Walton’s system.

Carl
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January 6, 2021 8:26 am
Reply to  Otis

FWIW, I don’t think it’s effort. I think it’s an unwillingness or inability to learn. I don’t want the kid to fail, but I’m endlessly frustrated with how he plays. He has a real knack for constantly doing the wrong thing.

Buddy Hield has some of the same problems, but he’s at least productive.)

Last edited 3 years ago by Carl
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January 5, 2021 7:25 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

I was mostly being cheeky and yet I find it amusing when €œstay positive€ folks write off valid criticism as €œhate.€

/shrugs

aplumley
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January 5, 2021 8:42 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

I want MBIII to succeed with the Kings. I was hoping all of the players under their control (MBIII, Fox, Hali, Hield, Barnes, the second rounders) would succeed. It’s his third year and time is running out. Disappointing, especially when he was the #2 pick in a very good draft. I want him to succeed, which is the whole frustrating part of it.

GFunkClassic
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January 5, 2021 5:11 pm

I’m a Marvin supporter, and I always will be while he’s young and is a KING. The target he’s had on his back here in Sac has been unique, and interesting to say the least. I feel bad for the kid. Some interesting points brought up in the article…but I think he’s vastly underselling the value of rebounding but other than that I agree with much of it. I would be happy if he just picks up the intensity, and starts putting in effort to contest shots at the rim. On the passing front I think he’s shown that he’s improved. He’s had a few bad possessions where he just puts his head down and forces something bad, but I think overall his shot selection has been good. He’s just not making them. This is where he does need to be more selective in shooting jumpers and attack the rime more often. Defensively, I don’t think the guards, nor scheme have been doing him any favors. They run this switch scheme a lot where they switch everything. Warriors were able to get Bagley vs. Curry on the perimeter multiple times with ease. Why are we allowing that switch so easily? That’s not a good strategy and puts Bagley in a bad spot. He’s setup to fail there. I’ve also seen the guards get blown by way too easily, putting Bagley in a spot where he steps up to stop the uncontested layup only to have his guy be wide open for a dump off dunk or oop. But he has shown some poor defensive fundamentals regarding crossing his feet up in defensive stances/ slides and aloof help defense. He did not have a good game last game. No intensity. Sometimes I do wonder if this is Dad’s dream or his. He’s the only one that can answer that. If it’s his, he needs to start playing like it, with grit, intensity, and tenacity. I think that will solve a lot of his problems.

HongKongKingsFan
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January 5, 2021 5:37 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

He’s had a few bad possessions where he just puts his head down and forces something bad

How many times did you see the same shit happened ? (as shown in Gif)comment image

Never looked to pass, automatic turnover by running into the opponent….all teammate knows his move aka turnover…

They run this switch scheme a lot where they switch everything. Warriors were able to get Bagley vs. Curry on the perimeter multiple times with ease. 

Did you really watch games ?
It’s all on Bagley…he stepped onto Curry before our guards react….I mean….Guard was forced to switch by Bagley’s switch……you looked at other teammates…most will fight for screen to guard back his own man…but Bagley never does that.

GFunkClassic
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January 5, 2021 6:24 pm

How many times? As I said “A few” …this gif is one that came to mind. It was a bad possession.

Do I really watch the games? Yes, I do. I watch most games.

Carl
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January 6, 2021 12:11 am
Reply to  GFunkClassic

We may not necessarily agree on this, but 100% appreciate how reasonably you state your opinion on Bagley. I appreciate your perspective!

Last edited 3 years ago by Carl
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January 5, 2021 5:43 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

He has plenty of [misguided] intensity. His physical effort is there, without an understanding of team basketball, to the point that it causes unforced errors.

Jman1949
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January 5, 2021 5:33 pm
andy_sims
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January 5, 2021 11:46 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

Big deal, I’ve been questionable for decades.

Convoy
January 5, 2021 6:10 pm

This issue is just a microcosm of the greater issue of the Kangs brass not being able to conduct a proper risk/rewards assessment of their current and projected player talent. The jig is up, its time to see what he will fetch on the market. We could always try and bring him back after he has developed, like we did with Hassan Whiteside. If Sacramento is willing to experiment with bringing in a under-performing 2nd overall pick in Jabari Parker, there surely is another team among the other 29 that would be willing to gamble on Bagley. Besides, its time to play Parker and see what all the preseason hype was all about.

HongKongKingsFan
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January 6, 2021 5:17 am
Reply to  Convoy

Finally, there is another one who think we should try to play some J. Parker……

I have said before, Bagley is a failure through-out 7 games…it maybe time to see what Parker can do on the court.

kgdobter
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January 5, 2021 7:10 pm

My only hope in this Bagley debacle is that Tyrese can draw out his talent in a way that Fox can’t. Nobody here can deny that the kid has athletic talent, he just doesn’t know how to use it. Everybody in the league is capitalizing on his weaknesses and he has many, no doubt about that. But a really great player, and it’s way too early to say that Tyrese is great, can make everyone around him better, and my hope is that Tyrese can be that guy. If this can’t happen then we not only blew a generational pick in Luka, but also blew the chance to pick a Trae Young and many others. We should know soon.

530-rain
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January 5, 2021 9:07 pm

Very insightful data points here and it confirms what my eyes have been telling me. It’s just incredibly easy to score on him. Hands down, lazy footwork, no help d. That a guy with his physical tools had to be hidden at Duke on the college level is embarrassing.

what makes this even worse is that he doesn’t seem like a good teammate and is always in his own world. He needs a change of scenery where he rides the bench and humbles himself.

Dirkula
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January 5, 2021 10:03 pm
Reply to  530-rain

what makes this even worse is that he doesn’t seem like a good teammate and is always in his own world

The fact that €œBagleygate€ is all we’ve been able to talk about the past few articles amplifies this point.
He’s a distraction, and a poor player with limited skills, who can’t be fun to play with…

scatshot
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January 5, 2021 10:48 pm

You guys are approaching this all wrong.
If you come from the standpoint that each kings game is the marvin bagley comedy hour, you will find that there are plenty of laughs and ha ha’s. Think in terms of Benny Hill without the music.

BBIQ4U
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January 6, 2021 8:34 am

I have said this since the day we drafted him, Marvin is trash. He is a net negative on the court and even worse when factor in his attitude and his fathers. This stuff was all noticeable before we drafted him. Duke had to switch to a zone defense just to be able to play with him on the floor. All he did was jump over smaller non athletic players. I remember the vitriol I got from people on here saying he’s horrible. I remember Many commenters who seem to be Very quiet right now being huge proponents of Bagleys, he’s trash, and if you ever thought Bagley was going to be good you should probably just delete your account. Take Luka out of the equation and Marvin is still trash. He’s Nerlens Noel or willie Cayley stein but he thinks he’s Anthony Davis. He’ll never be either of those guys because he wont put his head down and do the tough work. Cut him and get it over with so we can move forward

keith_kar
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January 6, 2021 2:58 pm

If anything, Walton has to go first, before Bagley. Who knows, if Bagley is playing under a good NBA coach and coaching staff, who actually know what they’re doing, this could be a completely different story right now.

He seemed to be playing much better under a Joerger system, but now Bagley has regressed so much, he could be damaged goods at this point.

I get that Bagley looks awful right now, but this carousal of coaches doesn’t help much either. A lot of the team’s problems comes from the top, Walton must go first, then get some decent coaching in here, and then evaluate Bagley at the end of the season.

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