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Breaking: Luke Walton will be retained as Head Coach

I don't get it either.

According to James Ham of NBCS, the Sacramento Kings will retain Head Coach Luke Walton heading into the 2021-2022 NBA season.

In two seasons with the Kings, Walton has compiled a 62-82 record and has missed the playoffs and play-in tournament in both years. And despite many questioning his job security throughout the entire season, it's clear he earned the trust of his players, as De'Aaron Fox, Tyrese Haliburton, and Harrison Barnes all recently spoke up in favor of their leader. The decision to retain Walton marks Monte McNair's second critical decision as Sacramento's General Manger after drafting Tyrese Haliburton last fall, although many are much more skeptical of this choice.

Walton has two years left on his original four-year contract with the Kings.

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Amonk81
May 17, 2021 5:16 pm

Fucking Joke. Was hoping it actually was……

How? Why? Pure, unadulterated idiocy. Obviously Vivek has not given up power.

Bringing back same coach and team that didn’t even make the playin, coming off a horrible season the previous year…..great idea.

HarveySpecter
May 17, 2021 5:17 pm

I honestly just don’t care anymore about this crap-scarfing team. They suck year after year. The only reason I’ve stayed around is the KingsHerald crowd. Cool, the Kings stayed. Too bad they still suck just as bad as ever.

I don’t care that Hali and Fox throw their support behind Lose Walton. Point me to a “player coach” that wins championships that a monkey with cymbals couldn’t have led that team to a championship (here’s looking at you, Kerr).

Whatever. The apathy will continue to mount. If this was Monte’s choice, I have no faith in him. If it was Vivek’s choice, he really needs to get the F out of the way and let people with actual basketball knowledge do their job.

Last edited 1 month ago by HarveySpecter
Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
May 17, 2021 7:07 pm
Reply to  HarveySpecter

The Kings Herald and the community here is the ONLY reason these days I’m connected in anyway with the Kings. If it hadn’t been for the website I wouldn’t be following anything with them right now.

HarveySpecter
May 17, 2021 9:03 pm
Reply to  Klam

Seriously. It’s such a tragedy, honestly. Such a devoted fanbase, left in the crapper by the team and management.

Hamlet1989
May 17, 2021 9:29 pm
Reply to  HarveySpecter

Vivek doesn’t care. Why should we?

HongKongKingsFan
May 17, 2021 5:17 pm

What the fuck is Monte McNair thinking ?

There is lots of good coaches out there, and is way better than Walton…….

I just don’t see the reason he is staying, except the financial reason.

Should #HereWeBillboard be rise again ? 
(i.e. Fire Luke Walton / We Want Kenny Atkinson / We Want Becky Hammon)

Amonk81
May 17, 2021 5:22 pm

We definitely need a billboard and some type of Embarrassment for Vivek/way to get him to back off.

I seriously doubt this was McNair decision because that would make him an idiot. I’d put my money on the decision being made-pushed by the real idiot.

I don’t think I’ll watch/follow until something changes.

cbrody
May 17, 2021 9:00 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

Pretty sure the king will field a collection of people we will refer to as a “team” next year. They will be embarrassment enough.

G-naps
May 17, 2021 8:06 pm

For any embarrassment it would need to happen around a nationally televised game. My guess is that wont be until late in the season and by that point Luke may be gone.

Sadly this is also on McNair…he accepted the position knowing all that comes with working for Vivek.

TerzoM
May 17, 2021 8:14 pm

Kings Announce 21-22 “Shitty” Editioncomment image

RocklinRoll
May 18, 2021 8:10 am

Monte McNair isn’t thinking anything.
He’s carrying out ownership’s instructions. It’s becoming pretty clear that’s exactly what he was hired to do.

AlRey
May 18, 2021 9:08 am

Hard pass on Becky Hammon. First female NBA head coach deserves a real opportunity to be successful. Not some bullshit clusterfuck situation reporting to an arrogant and dismissive little chap

ArsLegendi
May 17, 2021 5:20 pm

I’m out.

Not a dollar more of my money and not a second more of my time until something actually changes. They end up breaking the drought next season? Great! I’ll eat crow and take the label of fairweather fan with as much grace as someone who has followed this franchise for over 20 years can.

This is fucking stupid, and this front office is a laughing stock. I’m done.

RPO
RPO
May 17, 2021 5:21 pm

Breaking: I will not be retained as a fan.

aljout
May 17, 2021 5:24 pm

Hope to gosh I’m wrong but it looks like we’ll break the playoff-less streak next year. I won’t be around to watch.

Taking a break. At least for the year, maybe longer if Luke is still the coach.

PhutureKings
May 17, 2021 5:26 pm

This is about money. It has to be.

No coach should be allowed to keep their job after so much losing and historically bad defense.

RikSmits
May 17, 2021 10:07 pm
Reply to  PhutureKings

If it’s about money it is penny-wise, pound-foolish. You let this guy in charge of your most valuable assets, your players? Dumb and short-sighted.

jwalker1395
May 18, 2021 6:03 am
Reply to  RikSmits

If the Kings were truly concerned with money, might I suggest…..putting a watchable product on television?

RobHessing
May 17, 2021 5:27 pm

A winning percentage under Walton that equates to a 35 win season (out of 82 games). Hell, give him an extension!

I’ll call it now. The playoff drought record will belong solely to the Kings, and it may not stop at sixteen seasons.

Nice arena, though. It won’t see one penny of my money.

deltarich
May 17, 2021 5:34 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

In Sacramento they accept failure and embrace it. Walton was brought in to “take the team to the next level” and has only proceeded to make them worse for 2 years and yet they want to run it back again for a 3rd year. Comical

BigDrewbot
May 17, 2021 6:14 pm
Reply to  deltarich

‘take the team to the next level’ – apparently, they meant the next level down in the basement. success!

jjdski
May 17, 2021 7:00 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

We can own that record by ourselves if we miss the playoffs next year. Why not root for being the best of the worst ever?

deltarich
May 17, 2021 5:28 pm

I absolutely get it. This is completely expected when it comes to being an unfortunate fan of one of the worst, if not the worst run pro sports franchise. We deserve better and this franchise just refuses to give it to us. I’ve long since taken the apathetic approach towards this team the last 6 or so years now, so this decision doesn’t upset me as it’s just one of many typical Kings embarrassments.

I’ll continue to root for individual players and also hope those said players can get away from this franchise so their careers can truly blossom. Guys like Fox and Haliburton don’t deserve to rot away in basketball hell

SMF-PDXConnection
May 17, 2021 5:31 pm
Reply to  deltarich

From what it sounds like, Fox and Hali are part of maintaining Basketball Hell.

deltarich
May 17, 2021 5:36 pm

Walton is a players coach, so I totally get why they like him. Their thoughts on him should have had no bearing on the FO decision to keep him.

Gregoryl
May 18, 2021 9:29 am

Yep, if you can get paid enormous sums of money to cruise the season with zero repercussions, I think many players would prefer that path.

Otis
May 18, 2021 9:34 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

I mean, these guys may well think they can win by focusing on offense, and that the defense will magically come around. But I don’t know what they are seeing at the defensive end of the floor from this coaching staff that gives them confidence.

If I were a player (and if I really and truly “wanted to win”), I’d prefer a defensive minded coaching staff, and work under the assumption that the offense could be maintained, or at least the dropoff would be minimal.

Gregoryl
May 18, 2021 9:44 am
Reply to  Otis

Small sample size with this roster, but my guess is that defensive-minded coaches are much less fun to play for than coaches that let them stuff their offensive stat lines, hold no one accountable, and gush about them to the media.

aljout
May 17, 2021 5:33 pm
Reply to  deltarich

I’ve been apathetic since the play-in last year.

Kosta
May 17, 2021 6:19 pm
Reply to  deltarich

FUCK IT, WE DON’T DESERVE THIS

Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
May 17, 2021 7:07 pm
Reply to  deltarich

The sad thing is that the fans don’t even ask for a lot. The two moments of Vivek’s era where we were trending in the right direction and he cans the coach. We are well past the point of “be patient.”

TheGuyOnTheCouch
May 17, 2021 5:36 pm

This franchise has no plans on appeasing its fans.
There are definitely coaches available that are better than Luke Walton.
There is definitely one that can be hired to run this team.
They definitely know the fan base has always had disdain for Luke Walton since his hire.
Yet, here we are, learning that he’s being retained after 2 insanely disappointing seasons.

I have no interest in giving this franchise any more of my money or time until they figure out a way to make this team better.
Monte better do more than draft a no brainer that fell in his lap. He better do more than let a fan favorite walk for nothing. He better start making some decisions, I was going to say “tough” decisions, but I’ll settle for any decision. Because he hasn’t done anything to improve this team.

BeTheBall
May 17, 2021 7:40 pm

They also know this is a fan base where the majority are still just happy the team stayed. That place where having the Kings is #1, and having a winning team is distant second. That mentality is a big reason that we’re in this position we are.

When I’ve had discussions (both IRL and online) about voting with my wallet, the go to response is, more often than not, “and then Vivek will just move the team”. It’s battered-fan syndrome, and it goes back almost 3 decades now. I get the feeling that our only hope is to luck into another playoff run like we did during the turn of the century.

TheGuyOnTheCouch
May 17, 2021 9:22 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

Yeah I hear what you’re saying,but I’m not too afraid of them leaving. You don’t build a state of the art arena just to remove the main event.

Gregoryl
May 18, 2021 8:20 am

If you think of his 3 big decisions so far as being: not resigning Bogi, keeping Luke and his trade deadline moves, you could say that at least 2/3 of those were the lazy path to take.

1951
May 17, 2021 5:39 pm

What can I do but just laugh?
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Last edited 1 month ago by 1951
Marty
May 17, 2021 5:44 pm

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Last edited 1 month ago by Marty Marty
Tunel_21
May 17, 2021 5:52 pm

When I saw “Breaking” and a photo of Luke Walton I got so excited. Only for that excitement to body slam me down to earth after reading the headline a second time. I refuse to believe this is Monte. Why would he want so many of Vlade’s failed holdovers?

Klam
Nostradumbass 18
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May 17, 2021 7:11 pm
Reply to  Tunel_21

I had the exact same reaction too when I first saw the red banner.

aljout
May 17, 2021 5:54 pm

I watched highlights of the 2018 season to make myself feel better. It didn’t work.

murraytant
May 17, 2021 5:55 pm

I am not at all surprised. Not pleased but not surprised.
I do like, I think, most of the assistants. Except not sure about Jesse.
Not at all sure what this means except that more years of not even mediocrety

Dub_TC
May 17, 2021 5:57 pm

This was 100% about money.

no joke, I’ve already given up for next season. The Kings will suck again. He’s not a good coach.

basketball hell, it is.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
May 17, 2021 6:06 pm
Reply to  Dub_TC

Just wait for the vitriol when Holmes walks for nothing this summer. Things around here may get very ugly.

Carl
May 17, 2021 7:46 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

If Holmes walks, McNair will deserve every bit of vitriol he gets. If you’re not going to re-sign the guy, deal him at the deadline. Most of the fans on this site understand that much. It doesn’t matter that no one would have given us a lot for Holmes. McNair should at minimum understand the optics of throwing away an asset on a bad team by a guy in his first GM job working for a meddling owner. And if he doesn’t, he will.

Last edited 1 month ago by Carl
AnybodyButBagley
May 17, 2021 9:47 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

No possible way Holmes’s agent allows him to stay on this shit team.

1951
May 17, 2021 6:39 pm
Reply to  Dub_TC

Covid may have taken a lot of lives, but at least it saved one spoiled kid’s job!

Dirkula
May 18, 2021 2:01 pm
Reply to  Dub_TC

Its completely about money. Walton has a “no stretch” clause in his contract, meaning they would have to pay him his full amount when they let him go. This team already seems cash strapped, so Im Vivek has no problem keeping the POS rather than paying him out.
Life of a Kings fan!

Bill2455
May 17, 2021 5:58 pm

Told you. Kings have an arena. Winning is irrelevant if it affects the bottom line. I will be laughing at the vulgar loser andy sims.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
May 17, 2021 6:04 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

Not cool calling out another member of this community. Take that shit elsewhere.

TheGrantNapear
May 17, 2021 6:23 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

To be fair, Andy Sims has been rather persnickety and combative of late.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
May 17, 2021 8:00 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

So what? Calling out another member of this site not in direct conversation with said member is weak move and looking for confrontation. Bill pulls this bait crap all the time. So I’ll call it as it is…in the thread he started.

AnybodyButBagley
May 17, 2021 9:49 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Watching the seventh grade comments and threats of more comments is more entertaining than the Kangz.

Last edited 1 month ago by AnybodyButBagley
Bill2455
May 17, 2021 6:40 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

When someone tells me to eff off using the actual words, he earned my disdain. I appreciate you being vulgar as well.

ArsLegendi
May 17, 2021 7:27 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

Well, I’d tell you what my experience tells me about people who concoct a big dog-and-pony show over being offended by peepee poopoo words, but I wouldn’t want be labeled “vulgar.”

Last edited 1 month ago by ArsLegendi
Bill2455
May 18, 2021 5:32 am
Reply to  ArsLegendi

Really, personally I am able to restrain myself from such words unless I have been in the midst of actual physical danger.

But I suppose this forum may be your idea of you being dangerous.

Otis
May 18, 2021 9:36 am
Reply to  Bill2455

LOL, you drop as much “Billy Badass” around here as anyone.

I’m sure everyone finds you quite intimidating.

ArsLegendi
May 18, 2021 10:13 am
Reply to  Bill2455

“Dangerous?” Who is trying to be “dangerous” here?

What a weird fucking thing to say.

WizsSox
May 17, 2021 7:42 pm
Reply to  Bill2455

Your quote from your interaction with Andy the other day.

I don’t pay attention to internet warriors you do give me a chuckle that you are so easily triggered

For someone who doesn’t pay attention to internet warriors, you certainly gave it your attention a full two days later.

It’s almost as if you seem, what’s the word…triggered???comment image

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
Bill2455
May 18, 2021 5:29 am
Reply to  WizsSox

You went back over two days of posts to find that comment? I appreciate that you are one of my fans. You need me to make your life more interesting.

WizsSox
May 18, 2021 6:18 am
Reply to  Bill2455

Took about 2 mins. I remembered exactly where it was because, I had taken great pleasure in Andy being so “vulgar” towards you because it was well deserved.

So yes big fan here…seems you have a lot of them. Enjoy your TKH celebrity status.

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
Bill2455
May 18, 2021 7:09 am
Reply to  WizsSox

I understand I am the flame. It is clear what you are.

Jerzig
May 18, 2021 8:47 am
Reply to  Bill2455

Every time I see your user name on the comments section I cringe. Every comment you make is framed in a better-than-you, antagonistic perspective. You’re not here to engage in conversation and banter, you’re here to feel tough and smart. You’re trolling and you know it. Don’t get mad when you get called out or someone else plays your own game on you.

kgdobter
May 17, 2021 6:01 pm

I was going to write something really nasty about this, but I decided to just shut up.

SelecaoKOJ
May 17, 2021 6:01 pm

Not a surprise. Brass rational will be the following: We solidified the bench at the trade deadline. The team played much better down the stretch. Expecially, with some key players out. Vivek believes this team is on the cusp of at at least a play in, Right?

The Kings really can’t make any major moves with very few assets. No GM will touch Buddy Hield. His contact and BBIQ make him untradeable. Barnes is a year older and his decline might start next year. Holmes is probably gone. Too be honest. I love Holmes energy and fire. But, is he a playff type Big. Not really. I would love Enes Kantor. But, he would never end up here. It makes too much sense. A Nice Draft pick in the Top 4 would help a little.

Vivek is banking on this lineup and this remodeled bench being able to compete. No, the Kings won’t be terrible. Mediocre is the high watermark. They simply don’t have enough GUns to compete in the West. Could they improve 5-6 games. Absolutely. But, if the play in or first round sweep is considered success, then an extension for Walton will be on the table. That’s why there is No Hot Seat for Walton.

Literally, improve the win total a few games and you’re Golden.
This offseason will be like all the rest. Rumors, Rumblings, and Basketball trade soap opera.

Come October, Kings are going to roll most of this lineup back again. Hoping for different results. Same Shizzle Every Year.

Last edited 1 month ago by SelecaoKOJ
jlandweh
May 17, 2021 6:02 pm

3rd critical decision…letting Bogi walk for nothing after a botched trade (especially after the way he’s been playing) is definitely one.

This reeks of Vivek meddling either because of money or liking former players/names. The players can only vouch for so much. At some point, results and playing identity need to factor in to the decision.

Bad move.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
May 17, 2021 6:02 pm

I’d love for some superior basketball mind to explain this one to me while convincing me it doesn’t have something to do with financials. Many of you know my thoughts and theories on this and it has little to do with winning and more about the bottom line.

Fuck you Vivek.

jjdski
May 17, 2021 7:08 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It’s quite simple, the players and organization like him. He has the best winning percentage of any coach since Adelman, and he’s been coaching with a positive attitude and player development plan throughout COVID.

Last edited 1 month ago by jjdski
Otis
May 17, 2021 7:12 pm
Reply to  jjdski

That “best winning percentage” line I keep hearing feels like it’s straight out of the Kings propaganda machine.

He inherited a 39 win team with the 18th best net rating in the league, and the team has subsequently played worse each season.

ArsLegendi
May 17, 2021 7:30 pm
Reply to  Otis

“The best winning percentage since Adelman.” So, a few thousandths of a percentage point higher than all of the other sub-.500 seasons? After the second time in his career overseeing a 30th-best defense, across different teams?

Jesus.

Carl
May 17, 2021 7:52 pm
Reply to  Otis

Walton turned a .476 team into a .431 team, and then made zero improvement the following season, in spite of career years of three separate core rotation players.

AnybodyButBagley
May 17, 2021 9:52 pm
Reply to  jjdski

His best winning percentage since Adelman is almost as worthless as Bagley’s never ending potential.

Melmoth
May 18, 2021 8:43 am
Reply to  jjdski

There was a player development plan? I thought we were still at the tape-watching phase

Amonk81
May 17, 2021 9:40 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

That’s the billboard right there. Or T-shirt.

Fuck you Vivek

Feels good to say it/type it.

Carl
May 17, 2021 6:06 pm

I am disgusted and utterly unsurprised. Next, watch them roll out the same team as last year, minus Holmes.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
May 17, 2021 6:09 pm
Reply to  Carl

I think 100% that is what it is going to be. The Metu, Jones, Bagley, and (insert vet minimum big) front court is our fate.

SmallBallReject
May 18, 2021 2:20 am
Reply to  Adamsite

TBH, I really like Richaun and hope we keep him, but not at an overpay. He does many things well. Many of those things can be achieved by the front court you listed; somethings Richaun is not as effective at as Metu-Jones-Bagley (Jones and defending big Bigs, Metu and SSS/recency hitting 3s ). One player worth a big payday needs to do all those things. If the MLE will keep Richaun, I think we should.

Jerzig
May 18, 2021 8:50 am
Reply to  Carl

Absolutely right. All the talk about how to retain Holmes has been a waste of energy. He will 100% leave this team this summer. He’s a smart guy, which is why he says he loves Sacramento when asked, and why he will be playing for a functional franchise next year.

May 17, 2021 6:08 pm

Simple. Bad basketball franchises make bad decisions about basketball.

May 17, 2021 6:12 pm

This site should expand! Give us all a second team to discuss. Let’s collectively bandwagon!!

RocklinRoll
May 18, 2021 8:17 am

One vote for Toronto!
The Kings can be our American team, and Toronto our international team.
Who’s with me???

BigDrewbot
May 17, 2021 6:11 pm

The slow-motion trainwreck continues.

Only the Kangz would rather flush $100+ million of payroll down the toilet (along with another year of Fox/Hali/et al’s careers) in another wasted season than acknowledge that the Luke Walton experiment is a failure and pay a few extra million to dump him and get a real coach.

I’m not sure that even the brilliant and amazing TKH community could keep me engaged if this news is really true.

Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 6:17 pm

I’ll play devil’s advocate here. Let me get the record straight I was also expecting and hoping for Walton to get the boot.

And now to the advocating.

-For those saying why keep Walton another year when he hasn’t had success, what kind of expectations did you have for this team? We’re you fooled (as I was) during the 3 short stretches of winning basketball this team played? We have a bottom 10 roster in terms of talent. This team performed as expected with Fox and Hali making leaps throughout the season and of lesser importance, Holmes and Barnes as well.
-The defense was the worst in NBA history and that in and of itself is a firable offense, but we also played the 1st half with the worst defensive players in NBA history and improved (albeit against softer competition) when we got real role players.
-While some may see this as a negative of Walton being too laid back or not holding players accountable, he has the backing of every player and guys don’t constantly defend their coach and blame themselves and their teammates if not for a good reason. I’m going to side with the players on this one instead of being an emotional fan.
-This team has played modern NBA basketball all year and that’s a good sign, all that’s left is to fix the defense. So get better players. If the team is behind Walton especially Fox, then give Walton another half season.

Idk, but as a Kings fan we shouldn’t expect a new coach to be the quick fix this team needs as history shows. Since we’re keeping the coach, I’m expecting a significant move in regards to the talent on this team. If not, then screw McNair and screw Vivek for running it back for another season.

All in all, Walton will get fired by the first 5 game losing streak next season or have this team playing better, so it’ll be a win-win. I know alot will disagree and that’s fine, but I’ve grown callous to any hope that any new hiring or firing will bring. When the Kings start to win, it’ll happen when it happens.

Otis
May 17, 2021 6:36 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

This roster isn’t that bad. It’s probably better than Joerger’s. And the team has regressed in consecutive seasons.

If a five game losing streak would be enough to get this guy fired, he’d be gone already.

HongKongKingsFan
May 17, 2021 6:44 pm
Reply to  Otis

Even with a worse roster, Joerger is way bette than Walton, he knows how to ulitize the players, he is hiding Bagley’s weakness, and not allowing Hield to bring the ball up.

Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 8:01 pm

Joerger is definitely the better coach no doubt. I’m not defending Walton, but Joerger had the benefit of catching teams off guard with the young squad in the 1st half and then predictably they fell off in the 2nd half as teams adjusted which cost Joerger his job.

2nd, Bagley is a bench scoring center, which was what he was under Joerger and that’s why he looked better than he was his rookie year. Now being forced to play him and start him this season exposed Bagley and made the team suffer to Luke’s detriment. While Luke used Buddy like an idiot last year, Buddy was used perfectly this year as just a shooter, for some reason he just got worse at shooting this year. Joerger wouldn’t have succeeded with this version of the Kings either in my opinion. Don’t forget, that Joerger year defense was bad too.

Otis
May 17, 2021 8:08 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

The Kings were 22nd in the NBA in net rating the first 41 games of Joerger’s last season, and 17th the second half of that season.

Their record was one game worse in the second half, but I’d say the team was pretty consistent that season.

And it feels like you’re criticizing Joerger for using Bagley more effectively??

Last edited 1 month ago by Otis
Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 8:13 pm
Reply to  Otis

How was their record one game worse when they were if I remember correctly 30-27 at the All Star break and finished 39-43?…… by halves I mean the all star break not the 41 game mark.

And no I’m not criticizing Joerger, I’m stating the fact that Joerger had the luxury of using Bagley off the bench, while the message to Luke was clear this year which was to start Bagley no matter what. And I’m saying that benefitted Joerger and hurt Luke.

How many more games would the Kings have won early this season if Luke had the option to start Bjelica? Luke’s hands were tied this season.

Otis
May 17, 2021 8:20 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Well, you answered your own question. Sounds like you’re prioritizing the smaller sample of games.

Walton had Bjelica as well, but didn’t want to use him. You realize that he was on the roster most of the season?

The starting/not starting thing makes no sense to me. If anything, Walton got the more experienced Bagley, while Joerger got the raw version.

Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 8:27 pm
Reply to  Otis

I’m not prioritizing the smaller sample, you’re only looking at the positives. Joerger crumbled when the games mattered the most, during the latter months fighting for the playoffs and when teams had adequate time to adjust to their team. And he acquired Barnes too!

The way Bagley looked this year, he’s the same Bagley as his rookie year just with a better 3 point jumper. He did miss all of his 2nd season btw, which stunted development. A majority of Kings fans would still classify him as “raw” right now…..

Also, Bjelica was on the roster but he asked to sit out because he was waiting to be traded and he was upset that Bagley was handed the starting job. He didn’t want to play. I’m not gonna cite sources if you don’t remember, but the stories came from Ham, Amick, and Jason Jones etc.

Otis
May 17, 2021 8:31 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

So it sounds like you’re saying that Joerger deserved to be fired but Walton deserves to stay, despite less success on the floor?

This is completely nonsensical. I was never a huge Joerger guy, but he accomplished far more with a bad roster than Walton has subsequently.

And I’m not giving credit to Coach Walton for Bjelica’s behavior, some of that was within Walton’s control.

Last edited 1 month ago by Otis
Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 8:53 pm
Reply to  Otis

Walton has less success? It doesn’t mean much but he does have the 2nd best record in Sac history after Adelman. Not even using that as a positive, that’s just a fact to prove that Walton has had more success than Joerger. Joerger’s first 2 years were a joke, but you’re saying he did a great job for one good year (still just 39 wins I might add) and for finally letting Fox run after keeping brakes on him his rookie season, so it’s not like he didn’t have huge flubs either.

Also, stop acting like Joerger had a terrible roster. Joerger had a very good Bjelica, Bogi, and a Willie who worked in the system, which a Bagley who worked off the bench, then he added Barnes at the end.

Finally, Idk how you can keep connecting Bjelica not playing and Walton. Bjelica was still in the rotation early in the season. Luke was playing him, but Bjelica decided to sit. IT WAS BJELICA. What is Luke gonna do, force Bjelica to play?

Otis
May 17, 2021 9:03 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Let’s pretend Njelica didn’t play the first 25 games or so of the season.

And that whole “best winning percentage since Adelman” is embarrassing. That’s a fact.

Otis
May 17, 2021 8:12 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Two other things – Bagley played more minutes in his first season than he has in two seasons under Walton.

And that last Joerger team was 18th in the NBA in defense.

Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 7:57 pm
Reply to  Otis

I’d have to disagree on how bad this roster is or was especially before the trade deadline. Did u forget that the rotation was 8 deep on most nights, maybe 9 deep on some nights?

Blame Luke if you want for not trusting other guys, but if a guy played so well in practice, he would play in the real game and be added to the rotation.

Even if you think the roster isn’t that bad, they’re definitely either the 11th best roster or a few spots worse in the West at least, which is where they finished. They met expectations this year.

On the 5 game losing streak, Luke has no more excuses next year, it’s not a “gap year” to use McNair’s view for this year. I see his leash being short next year, especially if they keep Gentry.

Last edited 1 month ago by Kangz_Landing
BeTheBall
May 17, 2021 8:27 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Which would be further example of front office/ownership ineptitude. “We’re bringing you back next year, but we’ll be looking to fire you at the first sign of a problem.”

Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 8:34 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

I agree, but I see their mindset.

Better to fire him early and replace him with an assistant on the payroll already than hire a new guy and a whole new staff I guess.

RikSmits
May 17, 2021 8:52 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Sorry but this is totally moronic. That would basically be punting a whole season.

Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 8:54 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Didn’t work for the Hawks right?

Morons.

It’s not moronic, it’s giving the coach another year after a year of low expectations.

Last edited 1 month ago by Kangz_Landing
RikSmits
May 17, 2021 10:13 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

The times that it has no discernible effect is much higher than the few times that it does.

This is not a good strategy. If you have so little faith in your coach that you are poised to fire him within half a season, then you should not retain him.

TheKingsGuard
May 17, 2021 10:24 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Exactly!!!!!

Otis
May 17, 2021 9:05 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Better to fire him now and give the next HC the off-season to get started.

TheKingsGuard
May 17, 2021 10:24 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Why not start the season and training camp with a new coach? You’re saying it’s better to fire him midseason. That crazy.

TheKingsGuard
May 17, 2021 10:22 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Who gives a fuck how deep the rotation is if they don’t win games. You are spinning nonsense.

Gregoryl
May 18, 2021 9:19 am
Reply to  Otis

Apparently Walton can have multiple losing streaks as long as those same players are happy and nice to Vivek.

BeTheBall
May 17, 2021 7:54 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

I see a team that gives the minimum amount of effort on a regular basis. It also lacks any sense of pride or accountability from the coaching staff. The staff message seems to be that they’re allowed to do what they want, how they want (minus a Jason Kidd-esque clipboard punch) That’s enough of a reason to move on for me.

Of course, I’m not the one in the hole well over $100m over the last two seasons on just my basketball team alone.

Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 8:08 pm
Reply to  BeTheBall

Very true, and I see the same thing and wanted Luke fired for lack of passion on this team as well. But again idk what it is. The players love him and don’t blame him at all, but we fans see a different narrative that a coach should at least motivate his players every night. But Fox, Hali, Barnes, and Holmes had career years too, give credit to Walton or not but it happened. It’s a freakin mystery. If there is any player to trust the most, it’s Barnes and he echoed the same opinion of the whole team, that it was the players’ not doing their jobs and not to blame the coaches. I personally think they need end of bench vets to kick the team in the ass or that one glue guy in the starting 5.

Yeah all in all it’s about money and not having to pay a fired coach and hire a new coach after a season where you made no money from fans. So it is what it us.

Otis
May 17, 2021 8:15 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

It’s not a real mystery – they had career years… offensively. I feel like the important half of the basketball court is being disregarded when evaluating the players.

And of course they like Walton, they are getting their numbers.

Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 8:19 pm
Reply to  Otis

I’d argue and say that Barnes and Fox care more about winning than numbers at this stage of their careers, with Fox not having sniffed the playoffs and Barnes not even getting close ever since he left Oakland.

So they wouldn’t defend Walton just because they’re putting up numbers, they’re getting PAID already….. my point is why would Barnes be advocating to keep Walton and devaluing defense when he’s a champion….

So if Fox and Barnes are saying blame the players, trust the coaches than I’ll do that.

Otis
May 17, 2021 8:23 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

I don’t know why you’d think that about Fox at all. Maybe Barnes, but he’s had a career year offensively as well.

This was by far the worst defense in the league. Clearly players who are defending the coaching staff don’t really care about that end of the floor

Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 8:33 pm
Reply to  Otis

I would think that an NBA player who is in his 4th year of losing would want to start winning now. I guess Fox was just trying to put up numbers when he became a top 5 4th quarter scorer and constantly put this team on his back in crunch time.

Idk how you would think a whole team of NBA players, who’s goal is to win an NBA championship, make the playoffs, or Oh idk WIN GAMES, would be satisfied with only putting up numbers.

That’s high school stuff.

Otis
May 17, 2021 8:36 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

I dunno, high schoolers who really wanted to win games would give max effort on the defensive end.

You’re being fooled by words, I’m looking at actions.

Kangz_Landing
May 17, 2021 9:01 pm
Reply to  Otis

You really just said high schoolers want to win more than NBA players. I guess 14 teams who don’t make the playoffs every year are just chasing stats then since they don’t win.

Again Fox and Barnes played 40+ minutes most nights to try help this team win. But they just play every game hoping to lose and score 30 huh?

Actions are right there, idk what you’re seeing.

Otis
May 17, 2021 9:10 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

LoL, that’s not what I said.

These guys talk a good game, and I’m sure they would like to win more games and still get their numbers. But if they really WANTED to win, they’d play hard at both ends. They don’t.

Ultimately, you’re putting credence in the words of guys who seem to think things are fine, even though you watched this team play all year.

TheKingsGuard
May 17, 2021 10:27 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Did playing those minutes or getting those numbers win games? No. So improve in every area like coaching. The facts state this was basically the worst defensive team in history. And you want the coach of that team back?

Last edited 1 month ago by TheKingsGuard
AnybodyButBagley
May 17, 2021 9:54 pm
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

Is modern NBA basketball two nine game losing streaks while playing zero defense?

Kingsguru21
May 17, 2021 6:18 pm

Eh, doesn’t matter. You improve the talent, you’ll improve the team. Walton isn’t a needle mover either way IMO. But unless you’re getting a coach with a known track record, like Erik Spoelstra or someone like that, that could turn over the roster if necessary to get the changes he deem necessary with a good reason in doing so, I don’t see the point of firing Walton necessarily. Plus, here’s another thing. Month by month ORtg/DRtg/NetRtg:

Dec: 110.4/110.5/-0.1
Jan: 112.1/121.0/-9.0
Feb: 114.8/119.3/-4.8
Mar: 116.8/115.4/+1.4
Apr: 110.9/119.3/ -8.4
May: 108.6/105.2/+3.4

I’m not saying the Kings were anything to write home about. They aren’t. They missed the play-in game. They struggled on the defensive end all year. One last thing. From March 11th (1st game back from the ASB) to April 26th (a 11-14 record) here are those same splits of ORtg/DRtg/NetRtg: 113.5/115.7/-2.3. That was good for 10th in ORtg, 26th in DRtg, and 23rd on NetRtg. That sounds about right for a team that had a 5 game win streak and a 9 game losing streak in that stretch.

This team has to improve itself talent wise before anything else. This roster was not the roster it was throughout the season with all the turnover, either. Which doesn’t help for a team so thin on it’s margins. There’s not a ton of continuity. At least by announcing this today they don’t have to drag this decision on and make people wait.

It wasn’t what people around here wanted. I get that. But it’s hardly the end of the world either. There’s certainly coaches I’d rather have, no question. But I don’t think the first problem the Kings have is Luke Walton either, and I’ll stick by that until I see otherwise.

Last edited 1 month ago by Kingsguru21
1951
May 17, 2021 6:35 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

25% of their games in May were against OKC.

So, about that 105.2 DRtg in May …

RikSmits
May 17, 2021 8:56 pm
Reply to  1951

And during the time that Fox didn’t play…

Otis
May 17, 2021 6:40 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

This is where we look at smaller samples instead of the larger ones? That makes no sense to me…every bad or mediocre NBA team has stretches of decent play.

Two nine game losing streaks and the worst defense in the league should be a fireable offense, but only in competent organizations.

And I’ve watched enough post game pressers to still wonder if Walton has any idea what ails this team.

G-naps
May 17, 2021 8:13 pm
Reply to  Otis

Two nine game losing streaks

This right here…the team played uninspired basketball for 1/4 of the season

RikSmits
May 17, 2021 8:55 pm
Reply to  G-naps

Yeah but if you take away these two 9 game losing streaks they actually played really well!!!

RPO
RPO
May 17, 2021 11:35 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Good point! And if you take away *all* the losses we’re actually undefeated!

HarveySpecter
May 17, 2021 9:05 pm
Reply to  Otis

He doesn’t have any idea. He’ll have to watch the tape.

invader_zim_doom_by_shulky_d2r48cn-fullview.jpg
Kingsguru21
May 18, 2021 6:45 am
Reply to  Otis

This is where we look at smaller samples instead of the larger ones?

I didn’t realize we were talking about small samples. I was talking about distortions of singular bad games making a garden variety bad team looking historically bad on defense (when they really weren’t).

The reason I used the 25 game sample was hopefully an obvious one: It was post ASB and the game right up to the 49 point disaster against Utah. A bad, horrible no-good game, to be sure. But hardly reflective of the season overall. That really hurt the overall month of April, it certainly sunk the DRtg by a couple of points just for that one singular game. In January, they lost by 38 to the Clippers, 26 to the Blazers, 31 to the Warriors, 21 to the Raptors. That tends to sink your DRtg when you don’t win by those margins.

That’s why I pointed out the month by month splits. It was really a single game in April, and a few bad losses in January, that made this team look “historically awful.” This isn’t a defense of Luke Walton, I didn’t mean it to be. But unless you’re getting an actual improvement and not a new head coach to complain about 10 games into the season when the team doesn’t play every nano-second the way your preferences would…prefer, forgive me for thinking that changing out the head coach is change for changes sake rather than forward progress. Which is all I see most of the Walton complaining to be, in essence.

Two nine game losing streaks and the worst defense in the league should be a fireable offense, but only in competent organizations.

In a normal season, I’d agree. But this wasn’t a normal year, and there was a ton of oddities league wide. Injuries were a major problem all year for everyone. Next year, there’s no way Walton can survive something like that. But in a year where so much was consistently and constantly in flux, I think it snowballed in a way it wouldn’t in other years.

There were some positives, some negatives, and some “it is what it is.” It’s been a weird year, and if I’m being honest, I’m glad nobody is dead as a result of playing the season. It is what it is. The same people that were negative on Walton at the beginning are negative now. It is what it is. I wouldn’t have fired Dave Joerger the way the Kings did. I certainly would have claimed victory for a 39 win season like they did. But I never thought Vlade Divac was a good executive, I never thought he built good rosters, and I don’t think Luke Walton’s coaching record should reflect poor executive choices. Which, essentially, is what people do both on his time with the Lakers and Kings. Unless, of course, you want Magic Johnson to run the Kings and find out. I certainly don’t.

Adults, in theory, are running the organization at the moment. I’d like to see what they do with a normal’ish off-season and a year’s worth of data, weird distortions and all, and forward progress with a roster that at least has a chance to work forward in a reasonable way. Crazy? Sure, why not. But demz da breakz of da game, and how I roll. I do it my way, you do it yours. But with what the points you are arguing in the manner you are arguing them, you will never convince me you are right. That I can assure you.

Otis
May 18, 2021 9:41 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Yeah, I stand corrected…you weren’t focusing on small samples, just selective endpoints.

It was really a single game in April, and a few bad losses in January, that made this team look “historically awful.”

Simply put, I disagree entirely. Unless both nine game losing streaks equate to “a few”.

Kingsguru21
May 18, 2021 10:09 am
Reply to  Otis

Simply put, I disagree entirely. Unless both nine game losing streaks equate to “a few”.

I think the losing streaks are oddities in an odd season. And yes, we disagree entirely.

Gregoryl
May 18, 2021 10:56 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

The losing streaks are players not feeling any urgency or fear of repercussions.

Kingsguru21
May 18, 2021 12:25 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

The losing streaks are players not feeling any urgency or fear of repercussions.

Ah, okay. I always wondered.

NorCalKingsFan
May 18, 2021 5:34 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Losing streaks are not oddities at all. They are the result of trying the same losing strategy over and over again with no tactical adjustments.

Walton is incapable of even recognizing what he is seeing (“I’ll have to watch the tape”), and he because of it, he fails to make any meaningful adjustments.

GFunkClassic
May 17, 2021 6:19 pm

Not what I wanted, but I’m willing to get over it. Here’s my attempt to rationalize it….They’ve made kneejerk reactions with coaches in years past and that for sure hasn’t worked. Walton’s winning (or lack thereof) is close to the 2 coaches that were blunderly fired. That surprises me. Fox has his back, and he’s our best and highest paid player. I think money probably has something to do with it too, which I understand because they paid a lot for earlier coaching blunders. I’m already over it, as I’m writing this. I’m more interested in our personnel decisions moving forward.

TheGrantNapear
May 17, 2021 6:20 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

This is has everything to do with money. It is what it is.

Otis
May 17, 2021 6:41 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

It’s a time sink. They’ll inevitably fire this guy down the road, then we’ll have to give the new guy time to implement his system.

TheKingsGuard
May 17, 2021 10:32 pm
Reply to  GFunkClassic

Money has everything to do with it otherwise McNair is a joke.

RAP87
May 18, 2021 8:39 am
Reply to  GFunkClassic

Yeah.. It’s surely disappointing but ain’t nothing we can do about it now. Just like you I’m now interested about personnel moves going forward. Our defense suck and everyone knows it. Does Mcnair try to hire a better defensive coordinator? Who should the Kings trade and keep this offseason.

They better damn try to improve this roster if they are not firing the coach.

TheGrantNapear
May 17, 2021 6:19 pm

Vivek’d.
Kangz.

Mike120
May 17, 2021 6:20 pm

So that rather quickly answered pretty much the only question that mattered.

Kosta
May 17, 2021 6:23 pm