In roughly 24 hours, the Sacramento Kings will be tipping off their 2021-22 regular season vs. the Trail Blazers in Portland. The vibes in training camp and preseason have been immaculate. The Kings, for the first time in forever, have something resembling playoff (or play-in) expectations. Realistic or not, that has been the mindset of this organization since everyone arrived back in Sacramento last month.
The vibes ran into a brick wall Wednesday afternoon. Out of seemingly nowhere, Marvin Bagley's agent, Jeff Schwartz of Excel Sports, blasted the organization for how they intend to use Bagley to start the season. According to Schwartz, Bagley was informed that he is not a part of Luke Walton's rotation tomorrow night.
— excel sports (@excelsm) October 19, 2021
In case the tweet gets deleted, because yikes, the statement reads:
"Sacramento has informed Marvin Bagley he is not in the opening night rotation, which is completely baffling. It's clear they have no plans for him in the future, and yet, passed on potential deals at last year's deadline and this summer based on "value". Instead, they chose to bring him back but not play him, a move completely contradictory to their "value" argument. This is a case study in mismanagement by the Kings organization." - Jeff Schwartz
What Jeff Schwartz conveniently left out of his statement is what happens to Marvin Bagley's qualifying offer if he doesn't meet starter criteria this season. Starter criteria would mean starting at least 41 games or playing at least 2,000 minutes in the fourth season, or an average of those in seasons 3 and 4. If Bagley misses those benchmarks, his QO goes from around $14 million to around $6 million.
In other words, Marvin Bagley is going to lose a shit ton of QO money if he isn't in the rotation, and it sounds like the Kings told him that would be the case.
I'm sure we'll have more on this story soon as information begins to leak out. For now – your move, Monte.
Team Bagley not helping basketball player Bagley at all.
I’m kind of fired up for the late second we’re gonna get for him.
Yeah, but in 2025.
And top 55 protected.
Dude, with these its hard to know what is true or not
Sorry, it’s fake!
Dumb Owner hired Dumb GM. Sorry kid you are fucked.
The question is, who is Keanu in this video?
Is it Marvin Bagley? Is it Kings fans?
Who is Keanu in this situation???
The Kings have led the league in mismanagement the last 15 years, Bagley’s drafting included. Benching Bagley right now isn’t one of them.
It’s the right decision. Len, Thompson, Davis, Mitchell have all earned a rotation spot, and Marvin hasn’t. He’s bench filler, nothing more.
It’s (probably) the right coaching decision for this team as it’s constructed. It doesn’t seem like the right front office decision to hang on to him knowing the situation might blow, and you weren’t going to play him anyway.
The strawman you’ve constructed, where the front office has prioritized keeping Marvin Bagley? Aside from the fact that he is in Sacramento, is there anything that you could explain to me that would demonstrate that this is as a result of a management strategy being employed?
And since the market is so hot for Bagley, what would you say the range is for types of players who might come back to Sacramento? What would constitute success, or failure in that regard?
The Bagley thing is obviously not going to work out, which alters VD’s selection from catastrophically stupid, to historically embarrassing. If I’m able to reach this conclusion, are you under the impression that other NBA GM’s see it differently, and have been offering McNair anything of value?
Because it seems like you’re just saying stuff.
Uh huh. You mean like this?
Or maybe more like this?
Are you sure you’d know a strawman when you see it?
Bagley being in Sacramento is pretty good evidence of the thing I actually said, and not thing you pretended I said, which is that the front office has decided to keep him in Sacramento as of today. That decision has now backfired.
If you’re going to sit the guy, even salary relief has value. And yet, here he is.
And it seems like you’ve anointed yourself the Monte McNair’s white knight, trolling anyone who dares criticize him. It’s beyond tired, and adds nothing to the discussion.
Yes, I’m down on the team, and for good reason. I get that some folks don’t want to hear that, and that’s their prerogative. I’m allowed my opinion and what I have going for me is I don’t spend time trolling other people for disagreeing with me.
I’m no Monte apologist, but it is worth noting that players with talent retain trade value, even if they are benched, while the converse is also true, players who get on the floor a lot, but lack talent, don’t have much trade value. Bagley is one of the latter.
100% fair point. I’m not arguing Bagley has any specific value. I’m saying Bagley had more value (whatever that was) before this blew up, and the blowup has been inevitable for months. The front office should have moved him before this happened.
I don’t disagree, but there were headwinds that Monte faced: (1) Team Bagley fans that kept adding up Bagley’s points and rebounds and saying that showed he was a good player requiring a good return in trade; and (2) local media propagandists that would have had us believe that Bagley was a budding star. Can you imagine the furor if Monte had traded Bagley for less, which would have been inevitable?
With that said, Monte still should have done it.
If Monte is influenced by Team Bagley (fans) and the local media (propagandists), he’s worthless.
That was the only thing Monte could have done this summer. When the Marv trade does inevitably happen it will be for less.
This doesn’t affect his value one bit. The front office should have moved him last year, that is true. Now… it’s actually good asset management to not have him in the rotation. If you can’t get shit you like for such a talented player with #2 pick hype and that guy hasn’t proven shit yet then getting his qualifying offer down is actually brilliant from my perspective. There’s WAY WORSE things then having Marvin Bagley be your end of the bench big man for 6.5 million a year for 4 years and MAYBE he figures it out at some point. But even if he doesn’t “figure it out”, Marvin in 2022 on a 6 million dollar contract on a very limited role the previous year retains upside curiosity and could be very attractive to another team. At least from my perspective.
This would seem to depend on how they value the cap-space. They seem fine with letting him go for nothing more than the $11 mil. And the trade offers may not be as helpful as 11 mil. in cap-space.
Best post so far….
Andy comments. He doesn’t converse. If you question him, he takes his comments and goes home.
But would you say not trading him last season was a mismanaging move though? I don’t understand paying the guy 11 million this year to be out of rotation is wise…
I still believe Vivek is/has been meddling in all this. McNair started last season saying he was gonna trade all and then at deadline Vivek (we heard) decided to hang onto players a go for play in.
It makes waaaay more sense to me that not trading Bags (or others) and retaining Puke Is Vivek and Co.
Makes a lot less sense that a GM is that dumb. A GM who worked in a real organization.
I think McNair is working within limits set by the piece of shit owner
Amonk, I don’t necessarily disagree with your opinion, but I do have an honest question.
What is your source of information that Vivek is meddling and not trading Bagley, and others, to apparently spite himself rather than because the market is not there or the offers are completely underwhelming?
My understanding is that Buddy, one of the owners favorite players, was all but traded to the Lakers until Westbrook’s agent changed the compass points. That doesn’t sound like an owner that won’t move players, in fact, one of his favorite Kings was moved until the trade fell through.
It’s definitely an opinion. I do recall articles talking about Vivek not wanting to trade players at trade deadline. Going for playin And that sounds more logical than McNair changing his mind.
As for this off season, I think they were up for grabs.. My thoughts about trades were only about that trade deadline.
You are not wrong about the Kings shifting to try for the play in when they were originally looking to maximize their draft position. I also remember articles about the team not wanting to trade Barnes at the deadline. Any owner of any business will weigh in on an organization’s strategic or tactical moves. It’s just my opinion, but I think Vivek defers to Monte. I definitely don’t think he would sabotage his team just to spite a player that has not delivered a return on the team’s investment such as Marvin. Monte offered Bagley for Bay. Similar stats, but the deal was never consummated. Happens a lot in the NBA. Too bad, the Kings would be in a better place today had they been successful in finishing that trade.
Just my two cents.
Don’t get too frustrated, you are in for a treat with Davion and how he works with younger players (seems odd to say that about a rookie to be sure, but that is what he does) and helps them to get better. Not to mention how mature he is and the aura of intense competitiveness that just oozes from him. It is contagious in a positive sense of that word.
Bagley is as Bagley does at this stage. He is the only person that can change his trajectory. The Kings have made that clear to him now. That is a good development in my mind.
I am frustrated with this organization, mostly because Vivek. Tired of them always choosing the least logical/smart path. Never figuring out the obvious or way too late-like finally making Bags earn his start.
And I am excited to see Davion amd love Haliburton. Those 2 plus Fox are a good start.
I don’t know that the Kings can overcome the reign of Vivek. Or that he’ll fully back away-ala Dolan If he does, and they fire Luke, maybe……
I am on board re Luke.
I’ll take Vivek over the Maloofs. Every. Fucking. Time.
Would be great if he’d let his GM do his damn job, tho.
It’s an excellent development
I’m sure they weren’t 100% sure he wouldn’t be part of the rotation. I am 100% sure they hoped he would come into camp this year with 10 pounds of added muscle and improved defensive mechanics and IQ. Marvin f’d this up himself. Not Monte.
ps I have been more critical of Monte than impressed in his time here. However, not this time. I tip my hat to him here.
Bleacher Report once suggested we trade Bagley to the Thunder for Kenrich Williams and the PHX first rounder. I’d do that deal in a heartbeat right now.
hell, I’d take either one of them straight up at this point.
His whole camp is so exhausting.
Vivek amd his whole camp is fucking exhausting. In this mess because of Vivek/FO.
Too stupid to cut bait. Same idiotic logic of not trading vets and rebuilding cause they think they are close. Same idiot logic that allows Coachless Walton to still be here.
Yeah, as if we needed more reminders of how much this organization has just completely fucked up so many things, even in the 2018 draft when they were LITERALLY gifted the best-case scenario pick number and somehow managed to find a way to crash and burn even that.
Yes. They fucked up the pick and every step thereafter.
Part of why it is sooooo infuriating hearing Kings announcers, etc keep trying to tell me Bagely was good. Give him time etc. Fock that. The media shoulda been all
over Vivek and these idiots from the jump, not talking down to fans.
You are welcomed
They’re the campers that leave the camp site with smoldering logs in the pit.
Higher career earnings going forward, Marvin Bagley or Jabari Parker? 😉
Jabari’s made $55 million his career. I really do hope I’m wrong but I don’t think Bagley comes close to that.
He’s already north of $40 mil, if my math is right, and still only 22.
“Going forward “
Jabari is somehow only 25!
Then who the hell was that wearing his uniform last year!?
That next 15 million isn’t going to be as easy. Bagley’s injuries essentially gave him an extra year. Although I think his deal gets picked up based on what he produced his rookie year.
This didn’t age well. Or at all…lol
But they are literally the same person.
There it is!
As I posted in other thread, Kings-Vivek are fucking idiots. They should have gotten rid of him before last season.
As I’ve been saying, they needed to get rid of Bags before league realized how useless and injured Bags is.
Historically bad pick and the Kings heaped error on top of error by living in a fantasy land where Bagely gets good. News flash—he never was and never will be.
Can’t disagree about the historically bad pick. But when was the window when the Kings knew but the league didn’t? He has been injured practically since day 1.
Just the idea that after year 1 or 2 Years some teams may still have thought Bags is worth getting. Maybe they’d think, ok, he’s injured but maybe he’s not injury plagued etc.
Teams like the Kings?
Or, they coulda just cut bait and have that $ for another player. Addition by subtraction.
Isaiah Thomas, or Harry Giles?
The entitlement in this camp is mind blowing.
It’s not entitlement, at least from his agent– it’s desperation. Schwartz has to create a narrative about “KANGZ mismanagement” to distract from his client’s basketball shortcomings, which are so severe that a 31-41 team in desperate need of talent has decided he isn’t good enough to take off his warmups unless Tristan Thompson, Alex Len, and Terence Davis all get hurt. It’s the only way Bagley gets anything more than an unguaranteed camp contract next summer.
I agree. If Bagley wants a larger role, he should improve on the parts of his game that would ensure playing time. He’s talented enough to average 14 and 7 using one hand, smart enough to be enrolled at Duke, but can’t learn where he’s supposed to be on defense in three years in the league? At this point I’d be impressed with him getting into a defensive stance on a regular basis.
If Bagley took the challenge of having to earn minutes instead of insisting on his right to them, a lower QO wouldn’t mean anything because a team would take a chance on him with a larger contract.
Yeah desperation is exactly right. The agent knows that absolutely no Kings fans really believe his struggles are due to mismanagement by the team, rather than Marv’s own body and skill.
So the audience for the tweet is really the next team’s GM, who can use that as the argument for why they’re paying anything more than league minimum for him.
It’s too bad that Bagley being removed from the rotation didn’t come with Vlade Divac’s jersey being unretired.
Or Robert horry missing that fateful shot…
I was around for the glory years. Love Vlade the player, and love his uniform on the rafters.
I was also around for the glory years. I liked Vlade as a player, but he wasn’t nearly as good as CWebb or Peja, so I wouldn’t have retired his #.
I am glad the decision was not yours to make. Those teams wouldn’t have been what they were without Vlade. Facts.
The great thing about those years was how well the team played together and their ball movement and Vlade was integral to that. I see what you mean, he was not magic Johnson or Lebron, but that was the best thing ever to happen to a weak franchise and he deserves a lot of credit for that. And we should appreciate it because as we have seen over the last 15 years, it is not to be taken for granted.
Should this be a dance thread?
I nominate this for comment of the year. 👆
I think his agent has a point though. If they had offers for him or received counters, move on! It’s time to be done. What did they expect to get in trade – a starter and a protected 1st?? And his value ain’t gonna climb being out of the rotation.
My guess (based on nothing) is they were/are hoping to package him with Buddy and maybe other assets in exchange for a player who’s actually kind of good. It hasn’t happened yet. Schwartz is doing the only thing he can to try to salvage Bagley’s value: shout “KANGZ” to distract from the fact that his client has not shown himself worthy of a spot in an NBA rotation.
That said, I believe the only person from whom we’ve heard anything about offers or counters for him is his agent. Which is about as biased a source as you can get.
And on top of that we don’t know if any of those potential trades would have been good for the Kings. The agent doesn’t care about that. He only cares if they would’ve been good for his client. Any trade would’ve been good from his standpoint.
The “if” at the beginning of your second sentence is doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting.
When did you start believing what agents say?
The Kings gave Bagley every chance to earn a spot in the rotation over the last 3 seasons. He responded by being a defensive sieve and an offensive black hole, with the durability of wet paper. He still can’t use his right hand, he can’t rotate on time to protect the lane, and he breaks every time the cooling Delta breeze comes wafting through G1C’s hangar doors from the southwest. Marvin Bagley and his “camp” have mismanaged Marvin Bagley. The Kings’ only sin was picking him in the first round, never mind the top 2.
All this. Especially regarding Marvin’s camp…
So basically you’re saying that it’s the hangar doors fault. Gotcha.
Because of course something like this was going to happen. And yet I’m not even a bit surprised. Good ‘ol Kangz never fails to disappoint.
Well, he can’t get hurt if they send him home!
The agent is right about it being a little crazy that he is out of the rotation and that we haven’t moved him (also hilarious he openly says his client isn’t worth anything).
On the other hand, he is horribly wrong about how he is going about this. The Bagleys in the end may be worse than the Ball family and not even close to as good.
Finally, the Kings make Bagley accountable by making him earn his minutes. The team has turned a corner, with young players like Haliburton and Mitchell setting the tone without being held back by Bagley’s sense of entitlement. I can only imagine what Mitchell thinks of him.
As I said on the other thread, most of the responsibility with what’s happening is on Marvin Bagley, not his dad or his agent. That being said, it was obvious to everyone that this was coming, and the front office has now blown up whatever value Bagley had by getting next to nothing done with the roster over the last year.
Yes, Alex Len and Tristan Thompson are less of a net negative than Bagley today, and the Kings front office completely mismanaged this situation by not dealing Bagley earlier.
Shucks, and Bagley’s value around the league was so high before all of this, but McNair insisted on getting an All-Star, and now here we are.
I’m not going to respond to you trying to distort or create a straw man out of my argument, other than to point out that I see it happening.
A couple of weeks ago you wanted to guarantee him playing time. Now he is garbage?
I would argue (as other people above have) that a $6 million worthless player is more valuable than a $14 million worthless player, at least in terms of actually being able to trade him.
Your move, Monte?
Do you actually want him to address this? The only concern McNair has with Bagley is trying to spin him off for something of decent value. If Bagley’s agent wants to lower his own client’s value, then give the man credit for innovating a new way to get paid as an agent: Cutting his own throat and percentage.
If McNair says anything about this, I will be greatly disappointed.
I think readers on this site will say plenty on his behalf! Agreed that Monte just needs to sit tight and wait for the right offer. And who knows, Bagley might very well be worth a $6 million QO some day.
It’s a lot more than saying things. A motive is frequently ascribed to McNair as the reason why Bagley is still on the roster. As if Kings fans were the only people on earth able to understand that Marvin Bagley isn’t worth $11 million per season.
There’s no demand around the league for Wilt Chamberlain, either.
Would love to see the $6 million dollar man turn his career around in Sacto. next year….Your move Team Bagley
If only Bagley would pull a Ben Simmons. Now, that would be hilarious.
Phone in his sweatpants pockets during practice?
I fully expect this to be the next headline on TKH
Marvin never fails to always disappoint.