The Sacramento Kings are riding high after beating two injury-depleted teams. Good news! The injury-depleted Grizzlies are coming to town! Can the Kings continue to take advantage? Can the good vibes keep rolling? Did Doug Christie magically fix everything???
Let’s talk Kings basketball!
When: Friday, January 3rd, 7:00 PM PST
Where: Golden 1 Center, Sacramento, CA
TV: NBCSCA
Radio: Sactown Sports 1140 AM
For Your Consideration
The Grizzlies and Kings played a hard fought but ultimately frustrating game on December 5th, with the Grizzlies executing better down the stretch and winning 115-110. This matchup will look very different. The Kings have a new coach at the helm, and Doug Christie seems willing to play Keon Ellis more than the 2 minutes Mike Brown played Ellis in the last Memphis matchup. But that game also featured 40 minutes of Keegan Murray, who is still listed as Doubtful for this game with ankle soreness. Memphis will also look quite a bit different, as the injury bug has hit them hard. Ja Morant, Marcus Smart, Santi Aldama, and Vince Williams Jr are all out for this game, in addition to GG Jackson who has been out most of the season. Zach Edey, Brandon Clarke, Yuki Kawamura, and Jake LaRavia are all listed as Questionable. The Grizz are in a bad spot, but we all know Memphis’ depth is not to be taken lightly. Jaren Jackson Jr, Desmond Bane, Jaylen Wells, and the whoever else suits up are sure to fight like hell. The Kings have an opportunity here, but they can’t assume it will be easy. If the 15-19 Kings start getting cocky, Memphis will punch them in the mouth.
I’m hoping the Kings come out with a similar level of effort as they did against Philly. Although the Kings did have to come back in that game, the Kings buckled down and showed a level of execution we haven’t seen much of this season. Fox and Monk attacked the paint down the stretch instead of settling for jumpers. The defense threw traps, double teams, and picked up their man at half court or even in the backcourt. That’s the type of play they need to build on. Keep the urgency, keep the focus, keep the intensity, and don’t let this opportunity slip by.
Prediction
Sacramento wins through the power of friendship. And making shots.
Kings 120, Grizzlies 103
It’s never easy. Carp Diem, Kings. Holy Mackerel. In the name of John Salmons and Matt Fish, we beseech thee.
They’ve been without Ja, their main guy,
Yet the Grizzlies are still riding high.
They’ll sit lots of players—
That could answer our prayers
For a bright purple beam in the sky!
+1 All those Grizzlies on the injured list!
&ct=g
Looks like we might be seeing Devin Carter today.
Beat me to it.
I wonder if he’ll get minutes, and at the expense of who.
And curious to see how he’s doing, after two nice G-league games.
My guess (hope) would be Huerter.
I’m excited to see him play. All I have seen are some highlights.
With Keegan doubtful, that probably means similar minutes to last game. Maybe they throw him in there tonight if they are up big at the end of the game, or perhaps for a end of the quarter possession. The sentimental part of me thinks he will play tonight because his dad is in the arena on the opposing bench. That would be a nice moment for them and the league.
Yeah, playing against his father’s team would be sweet.
I would think Doug will be aware of it and at least give him a few minutes, if the game allows it.
There will be other opportunities. Dad got to see him dominate last night courtside in Stockton. Personally, after watching Carter roll his ankle last night, I would prefer they err on the side of caution. If the Kings are going to turn the season around, I suspect Carter may play a part, so I’d rather not jeopardize the future for a Kodak moment.
Because of all their injuries, the Grizzlies played their 6’3” two-way guard Cam Spencer double digit minutes in each of their last two games. If that happens again tonight, that could provide an opportunity to play Devin in a reasonable matchup.
I tend to be more of the sink or swim mentality and less conservative worrying about injuries.
I say throw him in for a few minutes and see what happens.
I can’t imagine that he’ll get more than a handful of minutes. Toward the end of his highlight video from last night’s game, he looked gassed.
He also landed on an opponent after a made three in the fourth quarter (sweet 4 pt play, actually) and rolled his ankle. They pulled him with maybe 5 minutes left and immediately put the ankle on ice. I don’t see him getting more than a few minutes tonight, if any.
After watching him utterly dominate G League talent in every facet of two games, I cannot wait for him to get some meaningful time with the Kings. I doubt tonight will be the night for that after 34 minutes last night, but we’ll see.
These games against teams with injuries are coming at a good time for the Kings. They need some time to figure out their identity, and these games are helping. They need these wins to stay afloat in the Western Conference, and hopefully they can get right.
I was thinking the same. Kind of like a shooter in a slump – even just seeing the ball go in via FT can make the difference. Gotta take these W opportunities when they present themselves. The Grizzlies are really well coached. It’s not a gimme at all.
Let’s stay undefeated this year.
What’s Keegan’s status?
I saw doubtful but not sure if that was up to date
Just saw this:
Sacramento Kings:Keegan Murray – DOUBTFUL (ankle)
Orlando Robinson – OUT (G League)
Memphis Grizzlies:Santi Aldama – OUT (ankle)
Brandon Clarke – QUESTIONABLE (calf)
Zach Edey – QUESTIONABLE (concussion)
GG Jackson – OUT (foot)
Yuki Kawamura – QUESTIONABLE (shoulder)
Jake LaRavia – QUESTIONABLE (ankle)
Ja Morant – OUT (shoulder)
Marcus Smart – OUT (finger)
Vince Williams Jr. – OUT (ankle)
James Ham mentioned that Murray’s foot injury occurred in the Houston game on December 3rd. Sounds like he jammed his foot (not sure how that happened) and it swells up quite a bit a times. He has been trying to play through the injury and is a good deal of pain.
5 out??!!
Have the Kings even once this season had 5 players out? Have they even had 3 out for a single game?
By count of the Kings core, Fox has missed 0, Sabonis 3, DeRozan 5, Monk 7, Keegan 2, Huerter 4, Ellis 2, Lyles 10
For those keeping track, Fox is getting closer to getting an All-NBA nod due to the amount of star players who have already missed 17 games or are on pace to do so. HERE is the list as of Dec. 26th. Bobby Marks has stated that 73% of all NBA players are on pace to NOT make the 65 game minimum for end of the season awards.
I think Domas, DeRozan and Monk were all out for the Utah and Atlanta games back in November.
Let’s say Fox gets an All-NBA spot. Do you think that the resulting possibility of a supermax contract forces the Kings’ hand in terms of whether they feel the need to trade him? Or does it really have no impact at all?
It may come down to how the season goes and if the Kings make the playoffs (I don’t think they will). If he gets All-NBA, he’s definitely going to want the super max, which by the way, will be the largest contract in NBA history when signed. Do the Kings give the super max to a guy who after 8 seasons only took you to the playoffs once?
What I don’t know is if the Kings can do a S&T on the super max. I do know the Kings are the only team that can sign him to that deal, so if he doesn’t get All-NBA, he has no monetary incentive to stay.
I wonder if anyone would want him on a S&T for a supermax, if that’s even possible. GMs aren’t going to look too kindly on the single (fingers crossed, 2) playoff appearance as it relates to his value. If Carter is as good as I think he’s going to be, I’ll be shocked if Fox starts the 2025-26 season as a King.
The other elephant in the room is Clutch Sports. Should Monte decide to move Fox by the deadline, AND he still makes ALL-NBA after being traded, he cannot get the super max. That is going to piss off the entire Fox camp and Clutch Sports.
I really don’t envy the position Monte is in right now, but it is his own doing.
The way I see it, Monte can help his position by making the right moves at the deadline, which may include moving Fox. Klutch can get pissed off all they want but Monte still holds most of the cards in the relationship, I think.
I wonder how many players have been traded in the middle of an All-NBA season? Feels like that would be pretty rare.
That is what I was going to say, if you trade Fox who cares if you piss him off or Clutch? It’s not like Clutch is ever going to do the Kings any favors.
I think Durant got traded midseason before. Maybe Harden or Westbrook. Not sure if they were All NBA though.
Klutch (sorry I spelled them as Clutch) represents at lease 35 NBA players and is the largest and most lucrative sports agency in the league. Pissing them off may not be wise for a market like Sacramento.
Oh I just followed the misspelling LOL.
I don’t think pissing them off matters, besides Fox being here Sacramento is nothing to them. Sac is probably already at the bottom of the list of teams they want to help.
I don’t think its ever a good idea to manage out of fear.
I agree that they shouldn’t manage in fear, but relationships should be a factor. The truth is, we have no idea what kind of relationship Klutch has with any GM. Monte may already be on their shit list.
They just fired the coach that Fox allegedly liked and wasn’t consulted on before they did it.
I don’t think managing that relation is going very well but maybe Monte has a card up his – coughs – sleeveless vest.
LOL
Monte has a card up his – coughs – sleeveless vest.
I think it has less to do with relationships and all to do with pecking order. And the Kings are already at about the bottom of the pecking order. So who cares if you piss them off.
DMC was off back to back All-NBA teams, and could have likely gotten a third when Vlade traded him. IMO, it was one of the reasons they moved him. They didn’t want to pay him the super max, which he most surely would have demanded. The situation is not that dissimilar to Fox’s.
I’d also say, that in year’s past, Fox may not be a finalist for an All-NBA team with his current numbers and team’s performance. He very well could be this year due to the injuries to his peers around the league.
Embiid, Kawhi, Paolo, Zion, and Chet are already eliminated and more are likely to come with the season not even being half over yet. Luka, PG, and Durant are likely to follow.
Also, All-NBA voting is now positionless.
Great points. And trading DMC and avoiding giving him a supermax ended up being a good decision.
IMO, unless the player is an MVP caliber player, a supermax in a small market seems like a death wish.
And the All NBA status seems like it has lost some luster going forward.
My real fear is that should Fox get All-NBA he, and Klutch, are going to hold Monte to the fire and demand the super max. Should the Kings balk, he is going to want out and Monte will be forced to sell at a discount.
Of course Klutch will do that. That’s why I wrote what I did at 12:03…
This is why I have to believe that Monte must move Fox by the deadline. It makes no sense to keep him until summer unless we go on a tear. Feels unlikely. They’d need a 12-4 or 11-5 run during a stretch when they’re facing a ton of top teams.
It feels weirdly self-defeating for Rich Paul to have been quietly demanding a trade. These guys do this for a living but I don’t understand the approach.
Yup, if this team is still 5ish games below .500 by the deadline, Monte is going to be sweating bullets, IMO.
I kind of disagree. It feels like Fox is already half way out the door already. Other teams in this same situation just open things up for a bidding war. You want Fox? Pony up.
Now, if nobody enters the bidding war, it might be time to sweat.
Fox’s extension is going to be hanging over the team’s heads. Few are going to trade for him if they don’t get a verbal agreement on an extension.
Fox may have a say in where he gets traded.
Yeah, the worst case scenario would be having to unload him for a bunch of non-optimal contracts. I’m thinking of when the Kings had to take back Corliss, Kenny Thomas, and Brian Skinner in return for C-Webb and Barnes.
I worry of a Carmelo to the Knicks type of scenario. Melo and Denver had a breakdown in extension talks and he wanted to go to the Knicks…and everyone knew it. Denver then negotiated from a position of weakness.
I don’t remember, were the Nuggets at the same point timeline wise as this scenario with the Kings?
Or did they wait longer and it cost them?
Yup. Melo was 26, in his 7th season and ready for a max deal. He was also upset with some recent roster moves. The difference is, Melo had been a certified star wih 4 ALL-NBA awards and in the playoffs multiple times, but got past the first round just once.
I should point out, that it didn’t play out so well for Melo in NY either. He got to the second round just once there as well. The Knicks finished over .500 just twice in his 6 full years there.
Melo seems like a very accurate comp for Fox in a lot of ways.
So knowing that, do you think DEN would have been better off keeping him and giving him the giant contract?
From what I recall, Denver wanted to keep and build around him, but it was Melo who was a threat of walking. Denver’s hand was forced. I think it was a months long ordeal.
Great memory, better than me! Got me curious about that trade, lots of Kings connections including Devin Carter’s dad, not a great haul for DEN IMO:
On February 22, 2011, after months of speculation that he wanted to leave the Nuggets, Carmelo Anthony was traded along with Chauncey Billups, Anthony Carter, Shelden Williams and Renaldo Balkman to the New York Knicks in a multi-player deal also involving the Minnesota Timberwolves in which the Nuggets received Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov and Kosta Koufos.
I mean they DID get Kosta Koufos.
King of the half hook and receding hairline
Peak male form
I should also add, that looking back at the Melo deal and the players in involved (it was a huge trade that involved 12 players and 3 teams), it wasn’t as bad a deal as it might look like today.
Denver got Gallo on his rookie deal and he went on to have very good years for the Nuggets. They also got Wilson Chandler, who was a solid two way role player, rookie Timofey Mosgov and Raymond Felton to go along with a first round pick and a couple of seconds.
FWIW, as a comparison that might be akin to the Spurs sending Jeremy Sochan, Stephan Castle, Zach Collins, Julian Champagnie, a 1st round pick and two 2nds.
I agree on this deal although I would ask for another first or drop Sochan and ask for 3 firsts. I would then use Huerter, Lyles, Colby Jones or even Len McDermott and Crowder as fillers and go after either Cam Johnson. Herb Jones or John Collins. Pretty good team.
I’d prefer the prospects. The Spurs picks are going to be outside the lottery for the foreseeable future with Wemby down there.
Prospects and players can always be flipped for picks elsewhere if preferred.
Okay let’s tell Monte. Listened to Loocked On Kings this morning where Matt was talking a Fox trade to the Rockets. I like this trade better. Still have a little leverage with Huerter, Lyles and Colby Jones and if needed Monte also has some trade chips. Just wondering Adamsite which of the 3 I mentioned Johnson H. Jones or J. Collins would you prefer?
Great point of reference, thanks Adamsite!
This is why I think Monte needs to move him right now.
First, this season already feels lost in terms of the playoffs, so who cares if dealing Fox results in an additional few losses?
Second, we have a glut of guards and a center to run the offense through anyway. Plus, the Kings have a complete, if unbalanced, roster even without Fox.
Third, I don’t want to get too far out over my skis here, but I think Carter may be the real deal. What I’ve seen out of him already tells me he may be equal to or better than Fox on defense and as a rebounder right now.
Fourth, and perhaps most importantly, the longer Monte waits, the greater likelihood he gets boxed in by Fox’s/Klutch’s demands. Better to act like you’re willing to keep him until summer while entertaining offers and not giving Klutch time to force the Kings to move from a position of weakness.
Fifth, Fox is a stat sheet filler but his game is so predictable and clearly doesn’t result in wins. Better to cut bait after 7+ years of futility.
It pains me to say all of this because I absolutely love Fox in so many ways. He rekindled my love for the Kings at a time when DMC had really worn me down. I just wish that his greatness as a player translated into team greatness.
Well said, I agree with a lot of this.
And I said this earlier, but I think unless you are talking about an MVP level player the supermax is a death wish for a small market team.
Oddly, that trade worked out OK for Denver, as there was a pick swap involved that ultimately became Jamal Murray.
But to your point, Denver was over a barrel.
Agreed.
That is my biggest fear, that the market/return for Fox is not great.
So you have to overpay with the supermax or not get much.
IMO, Monte needs to stay ahead of this and try to forecast what will happen and not be so conservative and reactive.
If it was me and I thought Fox was going to get All-NBA and consequently the super max, I would trade him for the best package available ASAP.
The better GMs know when to take a chance and when to lie back. And the Kings given their market and history are going to have to take a chance at some point or get very lucky with ping pong balls if they want to be real contenders.
Loving this conversation – so many layers to it. Very thought provoking.
For the sake of the convo, let’s add this to the mix – While a supermax for Fox would be an overpay, I’m not sure that the Kings would be better off shipping him out as a means to avoid the payout. It is a miniscule list of Kings that have been as good or better than Fox over the Sacramento years (Webber, Richmond, maybe Peja?). In that regard, an overpay for Fox may be better than the alternative.
We get caught up on who is and who is not a max or supermax player. I think that it may be a false narrative to associate championship contender only to max players. At any given time, there are probably 4-6 true title contenders, and probably 4-6 truly tanking teams. That leaves 18-20 teams in between, and these teams still need to roll out their best product and fill payroll, lest they face the ire of the fans for underspending.
It is certainly to the benefit of Fox and Rich Paul to help the Kings put the best product possible on the floor this year. It would mean an awful lot of extra money for both Fox and Klutch. In that regard, Paul is probably less combative with the front office than he is trying to guide the trade winds to benefit both him and Fox in Sacramento. That surely takes a turn at the end of the season if Fox does not make all-NBA.
I would still really like to see this team with Sabonis, Fox, and a balanced roster. To wit, if the Kings had Aaron Gordon instead of DDR, how would things look right now? Hell, the addition of a Cam Johnson and the existence of a PJ Washington (or even Bobby Portis) would really change the look of the lineup, as it would either move Murray to the two for what would be a much longer lineup, or it would turn Murray into a 6th man. I think that would be a team, under the right leadership, that could go toe-to-toe with the West’s best. Championship contender? Who knows? But potentially the best or 2nd best permutation of Kings basketball in 40 years. When I bounce that against dealing Fox for what would likely be less singular talent (that is, the trade package coming back does not contain a single player of Fox’s caliber), I cringe. I mean, if this front office can’t finish the job of building around Sabonis and Fox, how much confidence should we have in them doing it from a step (or two or three) farther back?
The way I see (fear) it, should the Kings get to a place where they need to deal Fox, they are going to be worse off for it, and for more than a little bit of time. But if that has to happen, the off season probably provides them more agility and suitors than the trade deadline. In that regard, I do not think that time is of the essence when it comes to trading him. And if he makes all-NBA, it will be largely because this team turned things around to some extent, and I would find him worthy of being one of the two dozen players or so that will make over $50m next season. And when you look at that list, it is not unreasonable for Fox to be included.
Of course, and it cannot be overstated, I know nothing.
Great points! Yes, lots of layers and moving parts for sure.
I think so much of this is how good do you think Fox is and can become vs how much you could trade him for.
My guess is he won’t be a top 10 NBA player but I would love it if I was wrong.
You are right if you added Aaron Gordon to this team and changed nothing else, I think they are probably a top 6 seed and on their way to contending.
Then the question becomes can Monte pull something like this off? I have my doubts on this too but, again, I hope I am wrong.
Yep. Therein lies the problem: change the players all you want, but ownership and the front office remains, and that is ground zero for what does and does not get accomplished around here.
Webber (5 times, and the only 1st team nod), Richmond (5), Cousins (2), Sabonis (2), Stojakovic (1), Fox (1). That is the complete list of Sacramento Kings that have made all-NBA. The odds are overwhelming that none of the players that you get back in a Fox trade reach those heights. So for me, it’s not whether or not Fox can be a top ten player. It’s whether he is a reasonable expenditure when compared to the other max players being paid throughout the league (it appears that he would be), and whether you would be building with or without him (I think that answer is with, since historical odds say that you’re not going to pull a better player.
Now, if the bar is top 10 player of bust, blow it all to smithereens and trade every player that can get you pulls at the brass ring in return. That means dealing Fox, Sabonis, Murray, and maybe more. Take on other teams’ shitty contracts with the price tag being their future, unprotected picks (there will be opportunities when as the punitive 2nd apron becomes more prevalent). That fills your coffers with picks and gets you to the salary minimum, and keeps payroll to a bare minimum to offset your very empty arena.
From a business model perspective, I am probably retaining Fox up until he demands out. And if that happens, it will only take two suitors to ensure that you get fair market value for him. And I think that there will be at least two suitors this off season for Fox, as there will be very few players on the market that could have a more immediate and positive impact for teams looking to take that next step.
Your plan makes sense in that the Kings are already on that path. Some of the hard to get pieces are already in place.
As an alternative on a previous thread it was discussed going the ‘contenders without a superstar’ approach.
Just saying what if the Kings could do a trade for say Markkanen and Collins for Fox and picks and/or filler and most of the rest of roster stays intact.
I think that roster is longer, more balanced and competitive.
(please don’t get too caught up in these specifics, just spitballing about the approach and giving examples, I did not fact check it to death, it could totally be different players, my point is what you might get for Fox, added to the current roster)
I can’t argue with that. Should the Kings save this season on the back of Fox and make the playoffs, THEN PAY THE MAN. That chances of that happening, however, are getting slimmer by the day, and IMO will still requires Monte to make some changes. The clock is ticking…
Agreed, though I don’t think that the clock is ticking all that loudly. That is, I really don’t think that any opportunity or value is lost if Fox is dealt this off season instead of at the deadline, regardless of whether or not he makes all-NBA.
This is the crux of it. If you don’t show sufficient progress you may have to trade Fox for pennies on the dollar or even lose him for nothing.
How confident are we that – even with trades – this team can improve enough in little time to convince Paul / Fox to stay?
Hey, if someone makes you a lights-out deal at the deadline, pull the trigger. But beyond that, I’m not worried about getting fewer than more magic beans. I’m absolutely not trading him out of fear of ultimately getting nothing for him. This is the new NBA thanks to the new CBA. As the Clips showed with PG13 and as the Heat are showing with Butler, the rules have changed. Cap space has a value that may now be above and beyond a handful of future picks and/or B+ players/prospects.
But this is the part I’m struggling with. Fox on a super max deal forces you to make tougher decisions about other players. If Fox isn’t making you elite, can you build a contender around him with him taking 30% of your total available spending? I don’t see how they get out of that forest but I’m not getting paid GM bucks to do so.
If Fox makes you better than you could otherwise be for the run of his contract, I’m not sure that a few picks or prospects makes up for that. For me, it all comes back to, if you are going to lose a player of Fox’s caliber, how are you going to get that back? And the NBA being a superstar league, it is much harder to get it back in the aggregate than it is in, say, the NFL.
To me, it really comes down to what “better” is in this scenario. If that’s 48-50 wins and home court for a playoff series or two, great. If it’s 41 wins or worse, I’d rather retool the roster with a Fox trade being the kickstart. It feels like I’m more impulsive or knee-jerk reactive in this situation than you would be.
A lot of spilled milk here but if Keegan comes out shooting 40% from three or if DeMar had been a better fit or if we had just gotten that needed PF in the offseason, maybe we’re not in this pickle. Frustrating.
OKC gave up a fringe MVP candidate in PG13 to get a rookie scale SGA. Few could see that kind of return at the time, but Sam Presti knows his shit.
If Monte is worth his weight at GM of the year, he may be able to get prospects and picks in return that may not pay off immediately, but could pay in dividends down the road.
I’d wager the chances of that kind of scenario happening are currently near the same as Fox taking this team deep into the playoffs.
Heads or tails?
Aye, there’s the rub. And that is probably my biggest concern, as I really have little faith in ownership and the front office at this point. Jeebus, they handle the firing of Brown so poorly, I’m not sure that they possess the dexterity to peel a tangerine.
Yes, either you trust Monte/Vivek (NO CLASS, NO BALLS had to get it in) to trade Fox and get a decent return or keep Fox and make a move or two to build around Fox.
Either way you are hoping this FO/ownership can make some good moves to get better. Sketchy
Absolutely. I think that retaining Fox requires fewer moves and moving parts, which is why it is my preferred route for Runtadive and Vesty McVesterson.
OOOO…I like those nicknames too. Throw them on the pile!
Couldn’t agree more. There are damn near 29 other front offices and ownerships that I might trust more with a move like trading Fox, but the same goes for handling a max contract extension and building around him.
I mean this is the same front office that singed DDR, Crowder, McDermott, and drafted the injured falling knife in Carter (jury is still a long ways out on that one) to bolster the roster.
That is why I am super apprehensive to give Fox a super max. Might as well be the world’s biggest pair of handcuffs.
This. At the moment I can’t think of any max or super max contracts of player that are on teams that have made just one playoff series on 8 years.
I honestly don’t know if a lottery team has handed out a max deal to one of their own players, let alone a super max deal.
Right. And is Fox really just one of those B+ / A- players disguised by very good stats? Or is he a legit elite? I suspect A-, even though I love watching the guy play.
I’d put Fox in the sphere of Trae Young, Laurie and healthy Zach Lavine, all of whom have been paid max contracts to this point, and at least two of whom (Young, Laurie) I see getting the max on their next contract.
When you look at future salaries and factor in the players that have not yet landed their future contracts, you can easily project Fox in the 20-30 range, which I think is appropriate for him. Again, I’m not getting hung up on buzz words like super max or franchise player. I’m just looking at what he will be making compared to players of this talent and stature, and it seems fair and reasonable (by NBA standards).
https://hoopshype.com/salaries/players/
you can easily project Fox in the 20-30 range, which I think is appropriate for him
I agree with this. Possibly even higher maybe 15-20. Is that worth a supermax? I don’t know but I know I would be leery if I was a GM. Especially if it handcuffs your franchise going forward.
Another factor I have not see today is how do you think Fox’s game will age?
I don’t think it will age well and makes me more in the trade him boat.
I don’t see him aging out during the run of his next contract.
Makes me leery because he relies on being fast so much. Its the first thing to go and now the Kings are 3 years in and he is WAY overpaid and can’t give him away. Just looking at the doom and gloom crystal ball….
Anybody know off hand how many supermax contracts are in the league? And who has them?
I have no idea, but might give some context.
If you crack open that link, it at least shows you who the highest paid players are.
My bad, didn’t see it thanks!
Looking at those say top 30 contracts of the top paid guys. How many do you think the team has buyers remorse?
Seems like a lot to me.
A few, at least. But that is the nature of the business.
Here is my thought exercise. It is by no means a comprehensive list, but these are the guys that I would rather have than Fox when I take age, health and cost into consideration (paying Fox the max): Giannis, Jokic, SGA, Tatum, Wemby, Ant, Luka, Spida, Paolo, Jalen Williams, Jaylen Brown, Luka. That’s a dozen guys, and none of them are walking through that door.
Next, the guys that I would be fine with instead of Fox, though the level of team improvement is more of a moving target: Chet, Brunson, Maxey, Garland, Mobely, Hali, LaMelo, Jamal Murray. And Cade Cunningham is coming. That’s nine more, and none of them are walking through that door.
So 21 guys, and I’m sure that I missed a half dozen. Note that I do not have the elder statesmen on the list (LeBron, AD, KD, Steph, Dame, and so on), nor do I have the oft-injured or otherwise unavailable (Kawhi, Ja, etc.).
For clarity, my list is quite subjective, and others could probably add other players that they like as much or more than Fox (while taking contract, age and health into account).
Again, I do not fear (or really recognize) the max / supermax or franchise player conundrum. I look at the market, and whether or not a player is a value or an overpay within that market. I do not think that Fox would be an overpay, at least not to the extent that it would cripple a payroll. At worst, his presence on the payroll costs you a BAE or MLE player. So the next question is, who is the player that you can pay less for and make up the talent difference via that BAE or MLE player? Would I deal Fox for Cade Cunningham and Isaiah Stewart? I’d sure consider it. But also note that Cunningham is going to make $225m over the next five years, so it’s not as though you are banking all of Fox’s salary.
The thing is, it’s not salaries that hold the Kings back. It’s opportunity. So I don’t fear the Fox contract nearly as much as I fear that his payroll slot will go to four middling players that don’t move the needle.
Great points. And I am right with you on your list.
I do think you have a bit higher view of Fox as a player than I do so his place on your list is higher than my list. For example, if you offered Cade and Stewart for Fox to me, DONE, no considering needed.
The other thing that I am strongly considering is how his game will age, he relies on speed too much. I have a strong suspicion once he starts to slow it might be a cliff. And now the Kings are stuck with a Bradley Beal type contract.
Hypothetically speaking, would anyone trade Zion for Fox? Because of Zion’s health history, Fox would be more desireable. If Kings acquire Hawkins and Herb Jones as well, for Fox, Huerter, and fillers, would you do it? A line up of Monk,Hawkins, Keegan, Zion, Sabonis would be potent.
All good, thought-provoking points in favor of keeping Fox. You make some good arguments for it.
And I could be so very wrong about every bit of it. That’s my gift!
That’s insane. I didn’t realize how many Grizzlies players were injured. Kings need to take advantage of that.
Three point shooting…Doubtful. 😀
2 minutes for Keon in a game where Huerter played 25 minutes and went 0-6 beyond the arc. Borderline criminal.
There were a lot of things to like about Mike Brown but his handling of Keon was not one of them.
I think the players recognized that too. All the players talked about how having Keon out there was great, he was always prepared and ready, played with energy, etc. And for Brown to basically not play him for a few games, and limit his minutes in many game, may have caused some frustration in the locker room.
Absolutely. MB vs Keon was a SUPER weird vibe that I’m sure messed with the team.
100% that one baffled me to no end.
MB would preach about defense a lot and then DNP his best (or 2nd best) defender. Must have been something personal.
Seriously. Preaches defense and takes Davion off Curry in Game 7 who was straight clamping him down.
That decision is my Pete Carroll 1-yardline moment for the Kings. Would we have won Game 7? Maybe not but I guarantee you Curry wasn’t gonna drop 50 with Off Night on him all game.
100%
This was the hardest thing for me to get past, I liked MB (and thought the roster he was given every year had a few huge wholes in it) but his rotations in that GS series keep coming back to me as indefensible and then he stopped playing Keon when I thought it was obvious that Keon should be on the floor way more often than he was.
That kind of decision making can really cause people to stop listening to you because it no longer sounds like what you’re saying is what you mean.
The recent coaching change has brought a glimmer of hope to the team, with a 2-1 record in their last three games. This improvement, after a dismal 4-10 stretch, suggests a potential turning point.
However, the team’s history of quitting when faced with adversity raises concerns. It remains to be seen if this new-found intensity is sustainable or if it will fade as challenges arise.
Key questions:
Can Doug maintain this level of effort and focus? His ability to consistently motivate and inspire the players will be crucial.Will the players buy into Doug’s system and maintain their commitment? Past struggles suggest they may revert to old habits if faced with significant adversity.The upcoming games against resting opponents offer a valuable opportunity to build momentum and confidence. Capitalizing on these matchups is essential to establish a winning culture and prove that the recent improvement is not a fluke.
They’ve had 14 combined wins and losses in the last 10 games? I’m no mathematician, but…
Seriously, though, I wish we knew the answers to your questions but they’ll unfold over time. I do really like how he’s specifically hearkening back to his playing days and talking about playing so hard you need to ask to be taken out.
I would be thrilled if the FO has found their next COY. All I really know about him is what he brought as a broadcaster and I thought he was such a complete dork back then. Doesn’t mean he can’t coach, it just means I have my doubts. I hope he proves my doubts to be horribly wrong.
Just stay focused on fake user names and how many profiles are on this site. We need you for that. Someone using a pseudonym should always worry about people being truly identified.
The math is a mistake. You got the point though.
Just seeing that GIF gives me PTSD
I truly don’t believe I will ever get over that whiffed draft pick in 2018.
It set this franchise back a decade, and maybe more.
I’m here to talk basketball with actual Kings fans. You’ll notice my posts aren’t particularly repetitive.
Did you have thoughts on Doug Christie, Keon Ellis, or Devin Carter? It seems that your feelings about Keon have been evolving, if I’m not mistaken. I’d be interested in understanding how you came to recognize Keon’s value after all this time, for one.
Enjoy the game tonight.
Thanks for reading in detail and checking my math. Good to know you are somewhat interested in the team.
Could you two please kiss and make up? Someone needs to check junior’s homework before bedtime, and the garbage cans need to be brought in.
Don’t forget to bring in the dog and put out the cat. Yakkity yak.
Apologies, I have a relatively low tolerance for people who engage in trollish behavior when I don’t have access to a mute option. I try (poorly) to keep it to myself but occasionally can’t help myself but comment. I’ll do my best to go back to just basketball talk.
What are you referring to about the 14wins and losses in the last 10games? I don’t see where Delesandro mentions anything about 10games? I checked the schedule and it’s not actually 4-10 but 5wins 9 losses in the last 14games prior to Christie taking over. ??
It was edited as I was posting. I was just needling him a little. It’s neither here nor there.
Lol. Nice! All in good fun.
I was scratching my head trying to figure it out.
Yes, is it a real change or a short term we got our coach fired boost?
I’m very curious to see how Fox in particular comes out. He has had a tendency to revert to settling for quick 3s after being aggressive for a game or two.
I think that is Fox and to get to the next level Fox needs to improve that part of his game. In a Kings uniform or any other uniform.
Maybe Doug can do that. Maybe give him an uppercut to piss him off before the game. He has done that to a Fox before.
I have started reading Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. The book is about leadership, in short. It got me thinking about the Kings and where they are as a franchise. The ultimate one in charge, Mr. Shaka himself, Vivek, ain’t going anywhere, so how does the org/team improve? When the leader of an underperforming team/squad was switched with the leader of a winning team/squad. Changing only the leaders, the underperforming team/squad started placing 1st and 2nd in tasks where they had been dead last by a large amount…There was a passage that stuck out to me…
“How is it possible that switching a single individual, only the leader, had completely turned around the performance of an entire group? The answer: leadership is the single greatest factor in any team’s performance. Whether a team succeeds or fails is all up to the leader. The leader’s attitude sets the tone for the entire team. The leader drives performance, or doesn’t. And this applies not just to the most senior leader of an overall team, but to the junior leaders of teams within the team.”
Christie for Brown was the change in leadership for this team. We have seen a difference in performance on the court, depleted opponents or not, and I think the vibes are changing amongst the guys. I think they can see clearly now, the fog gone, and they are reinvigorated. Whether that leads to wins and post-season basketball, who knows. But the effort, belief, energy has shifted in a positive manner.
Teams that are considering trading players before the all-star break do often not want to risk the injury of their star players during this period. Sometimes sitting your assets is less risk than giving yourself the best chance to get your team a win. Also, resting your stars and playing your bench lets other teams see your bench depth in an actual NBA-level game. This is an important consideration in trade packages, as teams want to see what your bench product looks like right NOW.
Devin Carter available tonight. I will not be surprised when the grizzlies dodge Carter by forfeiting tonight’s game.
DeMar played 25 and 31 mins last 2 games. It’s probably good for the old man to rest and do his thing in the 4th?