Malik Monk once said about his tandem with De’Aaron Fox: “They can’t stop both of us.” Now, opponents will have to stop Fox, Monk and DeMar DeRozan. While this also results in some roster imbalance with the current Sacramento Kings rotation, that offensive firepower is a good problem to have.
The Kings, in an effort to improve on the last two seasons and keep up with the Western Conference, traded Harrison Barnes, Chris Duarte, an unprotected first round pick swap, and second round picks Saturday for DeRozan. The veteran was signed to a reported three-year, $74 million deal.
Here’s a look at DeRozan’s addition to the Kings lineup.
How DeRozan Will Help the Kings
Steady Scoring Punch
Most are aware of DeRozan’s scoring ability. Since the 2009-10 season when he entered the league, he has averaged 21.2 points per game with a career field goal percentage of 46%. DeRozan, also known as “Deebo,” is lethal from midrange and is crafty at scoring around the rim. At 34 years old, many are right to question how much he has left in the tank, but last season indicates there is plenty: he averaged 24 points, 5.3 assists, 4.3 rebounds and 1.1 steals in 37 minutes per game – yes, 37 minutes per game, the second most minutes per game in his career. He played a league-leading 2,998 minutes, at 34 years old. Domantas Sabonis was second with 2,928. He also started in 79 games for the Chicago Bulls last season. His ability to score consistently should help improve the Kings offense and maybe get it closer to where it was two seasons ago (depending on fit, of course). A third consistent scoring option in the starting lineup is likely a big relief for Fox and Domantas Sabonis.
Versatile Offensive Skills
There is a lot in Deebo’s offensive bag. He has nifty finishes at the rim, nasty fadeaway jumpers, isolation, back-to-the-basket game, step-backs, lean-in floaters, sly pump fakes, hesitation dribbles and some incredible patience. Not to mention, he rarely turns the ball over, even when dribbling into tough shots and positions on the floor (he averaged just 1.7 turnovers last season). He isn’t the best at it, but he can knock down a three on occasion (he shot 33% from three last season on 2.8 attempts per game).
Take a look at some his highlights from last season.
Another Playmaker/Clutch Player
DeRozan is a good playmaker, averaging more than five assists per game in recent seasons. His passing ability shouldn’t be forgotten because of his midrange game. He has been known to pass out of the lane off 360 spins – something I am excited to see happen in Golden 1 Center. This should complement Fox’s responsibility as primary ball handler and give him the ability to focus a little more on scoring. This might, and I say might because there may be more dribbling going on in this new offense and less touches for Sabonis, result in better ball movement and an increase in open shots for others.
The real benefit though comes with the fact that Kings desperately needed a third player who could get their own shot. As of last season that list was Fox and Monk. We saw how detrimental that was when Monk went down with an injury toward the end of the season. Now, if Fox or Monk is out with an injury opponents won’t be able to collapse on the other because no one else can play-make. This also will come in handy during close games as DeRozan finished second last season for the Clutch Player Of The Year Award. He can make difficult clutch shots that will alleviate some of the pressure on Fox and Monk, and give Mike Brown more flexibility in those moments. Imagine having Fox, Monk and DeRozan coming at you in the closing minute of a tight game. They can’t stop all three, especially when the game slows down and they can dump it into Deebo to get his shot however he wants in the midrange with three-point shooters spread out around him.
Veteran Leadership
DeRozan is a six-time All Star and has appeared in the playoffs seven times over his career. With this comes a level of veteran leadership that can be crucial for a team with a core lacking a lot of playoff experience. His wisdom should help the team’s younger players, especially Keegan Murray who is likely hard at work right now adding elements to his offensive arsenal. If Deebo can pass on just a fraction of that midrange knowledge to Murray that would be a big boost.
Aside from that, the sense of calm and confidence in clutch situations will be very much welcomed, especially should the Kings get back to the playoffs next season.
Bulls coach Billy Donovan had this to say:
“I appreciate him. He’s a consummate professional. The thing I love about him is he’ll do whatever he’s gotta do to help the team. In conversations with him about us having to play faster and him to get up the floor, he does what you ask him to do. He’s an elite closer. And he’s been that way for his career. When the game slows down, you try to get him in areas of the floor where he does what he does. But the unselfishness and sacrifice for him for 36 minutes of trying to get off the ball, advance the ball, help us play fast, get those other guys involved, generate shots for those guys and still keep his head in the game, it speaks to his greatness.”
Offensive Flexibility
DeRozan can score from pretty much anywhere on the floor, which adds a new element to the Kings offense. The midrange shot, ability to finish at the rim and make an occasional three creates a balanced scoring punch that can keep opponents guessing. This versatility may complement the quick attacking style of Fox, as well as his ability to hit threes, and the inside-out style of Sabonis, depending on the scheme.
Free Throws
The Kings were dead last in free throw percentage last season at 74.6%. They were 21st in free throws attempted at 20.8 per game. DeRozan attempted 7.7 free throws per game last season and averaged 85% from the line. Fox led the team last season with 5.7 attempts per game, but only averaged 73%. Sabonis was second on the team with 5.1 attempts, but only averaged 70%. Monk, a good free throw shooter, was a distant third in terms of attempts at 2.8 per game.
Injecting DeRozan into the lineup should show great returns for the team in this regard.
Steals Leading To Transition Baskets
DeRozan isn’t known for defense, and we will get to that, but he can close on passing lanes in the backcourt and grab steals that can lead to fast break buckets. His defensive on/off stats throughout his career don’t show the greatest results, but he can force turnovers which will be a valuable asset when you have quick guards like Fox and Monk alongside him.
How DeRozan Might Not Help the Kings
Defensive Limitations
While the Kings did improve on defense last season, there is much more still needed. That should start with rim protection, size in the front court and length on the perimeter. DeRozan does not come with a versatile defensive skill package that can solve this. DeRozan can use his anticipation and positioning to force mistakes by opponents. However, he struggles to fight through screens and can’t guard players who can change direction fast, which results in the players he is guarding getting a lot of open shots. Fox will need to keep his tenacity on defense up at a high level when sharing the court with DeRozan, and it will put even more pressure on Sabonis with rim protection if more reinforcements don’t come this offseason. As Hoop Venue so greatly broke down, the Bulls used DeRozan as a four on defense to hide his limitations in stopping the ball in space in the backcourt. In that role, he would do what he could to help around the rim.
Three-Point Shooting
Deebo is the midrange king for a reason: He doesn’t take a lot of threes. Over his career, he has averaged just 1.6 three attempts per game, though he did increase that to 2.8 last season. But his career average is just 29% from three (33% last season). Mike Brown loves spray threes and spacing as part of his offense, so this will be an interesting wrinkle to watch next season. With less threes taken in the starting lineup; opponents could collapse on the team’s top scorers. That is unless more of the offense runs through DeRozan in the middle of the floor with him passing out for open threes.
Potential Spacing Issues
Speaking of spacing, both Sabonis and DeRozan lean toward operating in the mid-range and interior areas of the court. Brown will need to adjust his schemes/usage next season to make sure the floor is properly spaced so that both Sabonis and DeRozan can operate effectively and avoid overcrowding. The two of them could potentially fit together in the pick and roll though. The good news is that Deebo is flexible in terms of his playing style depending on the rest of the roster.
Donovan had this to say about his time in Chicago:
“He’s also getting everybody else involved and playing stylistically in a way that’s best for those guys. To his greatness, he can play a lot of different ways.”
Rim Protection
While DeRozan can grab boards for his position(s) (4.3 rebounds per game last season), he does not address the Kings’ need for more rim protection. This shouldn’t be a surprise considering he’s 6’6’’ and not a front court player, but this still remains one of the biggest holes in the rotation. The front office will need to look for a solid defensive big man to deliver the necessary shot-blocking and front-court defense to alleviate some of the pressure on that side of the ball for Sabonis.
Age and Fit with Team Timeline
DeRozan will be 35 when next season begins. Fox, Sabonis, Monk and Murray are all under 29. But the NBA is a talent league and the Kings needed to add talent regardless of age. This is a concern for the longevity of how DeRozan will mold with the team as time goes on, but he has more than proven himself to be durable and productive into his later playing days. As mentioned before, he averaged a very productive 37 minutes per game last season. And being productive into his later years is a goal of his. He said:
“I hate the stigma in terms that 33, 34, 35 is old. I hate that. So, I try to just break the stigma of that,” DeRozan told The Athletic.
The Kings offense is going to look different next season and if Monte McNair can balance out the rest of the roster and Brown can effectively incorporate DeRozan into his schemes this could end up being a really successful deal. The potential spacing issues and how this changes what Sabonis does, as well as how much DeRozan’s dribbling combined with Fox’s ball dominance are some big questions. This is a talent-driven league though and when it comes to the playoffs, these last two seasons proved that the Kings existing talent pool isn’t enough to keep up. Kudos to the front office for bringing in an offensive weapon of this caliber while not impacting future flexibility heavily.
And shout out to Harrison Barnes for his professionalism and being part of the original Beam Team.
Check out this video Barnes posted:
Thank you, Sacramento. pic.twitter.com/S2O5tEwLxS
— Harrison Barnes (@hbarnes) July 7, 2024
Also, I mentioned it above already, but I encourage you to check out the excellent video breakdown from Hoop Venue about DeRozan’s fit with the Kings.
Wasn’t there a game last year where Demar DeRoozan almost singlehandedly beat the Kings in the fourth quarter? Glad to have him on our side.
You could be talking about so many players, most of them not nearly as talented as DDR.
Yes, he was shut down for 3 quarters and then outscored the Kings in the 4th, I believe.
Yes and my family and I were at that game for my son’s 8th birthday. We did not have fun…..
First there was Hedo.
Then Z-Bo.
Now Deebo.
It’s a whole new world, for Kings fans.
(Sing it, Peabo!)
Bryson’d
I am very excited for this season. If we stay healthy we gonna be a problem for everybody. MM got more moves left too.
Sam Vecenie says we should try to get Beef Stew from the Pistons.
I totally agree. Either Stewart or Collins. The Pistons I believe are looking to trade Beef Stew. They also want more shooting espacially 3 point shooting. Huerter might be the ticket. His contract almost matches Stewarts.
I’d be happy with either of those two you mentioned.
Also, saw this on Twitter, but I can’t find the original piece on James Ham’s twitter feed which is interesting because it still mentions Lauri Markannen as a Kings target…
https://x.com/bretthuff22/status/1810361353003216962
Given the likely cost, I just don’t really want either of them. Sacramento needs a PF, but to quote Used Cars, that price to too fuckin’ high!
Marshall Lucky’d.
You can ride a scooter or buy a car.
You call Stewart a used car. He is only 23 years old.
I’d be surprised if Detroit moves Stewart now. They have very little big man depth. Utah, however, is swimming in bigs.
Huerter is the only larger contract as of now that I think will be moved. Guard depth just got a bit thinner with Carter being out for surgery. Trading Huerter for John Collins, for example, makes the depth even less. They need to fill that PF/C somehow though.
Huerter and Lyles for Collins is what works contractually. Sure the guard depth is lower, but you can rotate DeRozan to SG as needed with Keegan and Collins at the forward spots.
That sill leaves Collins as the only real PF on the roster, and I guess Keegan but he doesn’t really have PF size. They would still need to add another PF/C with the MLE or BAE.
Monte has some creative work to do in the coming weeks.
There is even less room than that now that the Kings are hard capped. They don’t have space for the full MLE.
Paul Reed is a FA.
Kings are about $7m under the tax, so Reed to have to fit in to that if no other moves are made that increase the team salary.
Keegan is 6’8 225. That is definitely PF size in this league. What I will say is, he doesn’t use his attributes correctly. Keegan has the potential to be a beast if he learns how to play through contact and body the opposing player when they are trying to post him up.
He just doesn’t play physical enough to matchup with some of the other PFs. He got moved around a lot last year, and Barnes had to step in with his old man strength to play the bigger PFs.
This is why they are looking for a true PF.
What position did he mostly play last year? I believe it wqs PF.
We need their backup big, Yurtseven, if we lose Lyles (would love to trade Colby Jones instead of Lyles). He’s cheap and serviceable.
Much more easier to replace a guard in the NBA , I wish our GM know that . Money is very important to our owner . I don’t see John Collins ending up a king , especially with Danny asking for a first for him . We had a chance when he was salary dumped. But I can be wrong lol
plus derozan was playing the small ball 4 role in Chicago a lot . So I’m guessing he plays the 4 a lot in sac .
i think grant williams ,Dorian finney smith are most likely. I would rather have grant . Dorian is kinda washed to me , kings burnt him on the perimeter like crazy last year and sucks at rebounding. Nets are stupid for not trading him lol
I will honestly rather have keegan at shooting guard , derozan at the 3 and grant at the 4 .
Get Collins.
Yes Utah is swimming in bigs, especially the biggest head of all- Ainge.
With Carter being out for 6-8 monthly, potentially, the guard rotation becomes a bit more thin. Moving Huerter would make the depth chart Fox, Ellis, Monk, Jones, McLaughlin, maybe Derozan if he is used as a SG in some lineups. My guess is that they hold on to Huerter for now and look at moving him closer to the All-Star break.
We need a PF now not at the All-Star break. We need to jump on teams at the beggining of the season not in the middle.
This is the truest statement you’ve ever made. We need to throw the first punch out the gate.
This organization is definitely not known for closing out the last half of the season strong.
last season.
The season prior, 2022-2023, Sac went 18-10 (losing the last 3 when playoff position was already set).
Elephants have long memories they say. Sports fans, not so much.
I remember the sixteen years before that year. One out 20 is ok I guess.
IMHO a 3-guard rotation of Fox, Ellis, and Monk (plus Jones in spot cases) is fine. The 4th guard in a 4-guard rotation gets limited minutes anyway, and Huerter would be wasted in that kind of role. Better to move him for a piece that can be more impactful going forward.
Add Beef Stew and we be cookin.
I imagine DeRozan’s addition will undoubtedly impact the number of touches and scoring opportunities his teammates get, because there are simply only so many shots per game.
My question is, does DeRozan addition lower the numbers for Fox who himself is attempting to make All-NBA and earn a super max extension? The team should definitely be better, but may come at the expense of individual accolades.
I would hope that DeRozan taking shots will limit the unwarranted bad shots taken by Fox, which would likely increase his overall efficiency. His raw numbers might go down, but they might also go up by being more fresh from not chucking random 3s. I think that will be the same for Monk.
All the shots from Barnes (8.9/game), a couple from Fox and Monk each, would get DeRozan to around 13 or FGA/game. Brown and Triano will have to work to feed all the guys, but I think the players would be fine with a couple less shots if it means more wins?
It would be difficult to describe Fox, Sabonis or Monk as selfish players, so I don’t imagine there will be any hard feelings about spreading some attempts to a highly-efficient scorer like DeRozan.
I agree. That is why I think it should work out with those players wanting to share the ball and play winning basketball. The culture of players on the Kings seems to be about winning and not necessarily “getting theirs”.
It could also enhance the trend of him taking more 3’s, in an attempt to help spacing. Not sure I’d love that but there is a realistic chance that teams will clog the paint and dare the Kings to beat them form outside.
Our top 4 3-point shooters (Fox, Keegan, Monk and Huerter) took a total of 25.6 threes per game, while their 3P% was between .350 (Monk) and .369 (Fox). Not ideal.
Fox shot 39% on Catch and Shoot 3s last season. 35% on Pull-up 3s. Hopefully the C&S 3s will increase in frequency, and the Pull-up 3s will decrease. Ideally…
Let’s work a little math here.
DeRozan was at 10 more shots per game than Barnes last year when you factor in free throw attempts. The Kings were worth a shot more per game than the Bulls, so maybe that’s one of the ten? DeRozan, no longer the lead dog on a bad team, will not be called upon to shoot as much. So maybe one less shot per quarter, which gets the difference down to 5?
Next, let’s say that Ellis starts instead of Huerter (or Lyles if you want to put DeRozan at the 2 and Lyles at the 4). Huerter takes 3 more shots per 36 than Lyles, 5 more than Ellis. So maybe you pick up a couple there and reduce the number to 3? A couple less shots from Monk and Fox, who were not overly efficient while being far and away the shots per minute leaders on the roster, and you’re there.
And 1 – DeRozan’s presence could very well make Fox far more efficient, reducing the number of times that Fox has to force up shots as the clock winds down. In the end, Fox’s raw counting stats may be unaffected while his advanced stats and percentages benefit.
Or not.
When Huerter is back to his shooting form and starting the team will be much more efficient. Huerter will spread the defense.
Sure. But if you’re going to plug in Huerter’s shooting frequency vs. Ellis, you are now asking the top of the core to sacrifice another 5 shots per game, so the effort to attain fit becomes at least a bit more challenging. You are also sacrificing defense for offense that you may not need, given that you
re really talking about your shooting guard being the 5th option.
The reality is that it is an “if” and not a “when.” I’d love to see it, as it would spike his value and improve the team. But the guy has basically been in a slump since the 2023 playoffs, shooting at a clip beyond the arc that has been less than the team average. In other words, the team has been better off when Huerter doesn’t do the thing that he allegedly does best.
Taking away five shots and adding made three pointers will help the whole team score more. More open shots when someone on the floor can hit a three. I don’t think the number of shots is finite number that is not to be exceeded. My point is Huerter opens up the offense by spreading the defense which allows more shots.
Ellis at peak scoring allows the defense to double team someone.
Huerter at peak scoring eliminates the double team on Sabonis, Fox, and Derozan.
When he gets his shot back of course.
Huerter has shot 34% from deep from the 23 playoffs through last season. The rest of the roster has shot 37% from the floor during that time. Now, the Huerter from prior to the playoffs was converting at a 40% clip. That Huerter would be a benefit. We have not seen that Huerter since the 2022-23 playoffs.
Based on that, I’m going with the word “if” instead of “when” as it pertains to Huerter.
Yes, if is the correct way to look at it.
Keon Ellis shot 41.7% on 2.9 attempts a game. Kevin Huerter does shoot a higher volume of 3s, so there is some additional gravity that he has for defenses. That was mainly due to the high amount of DHO with Sabonis.
Huerter is a movement shooter, Ellis is a spot-up shooter. Huerter does best when running off screens or in the DHO. They are both good shooters, just different types of shooters.
Do you think Ellis can put up the numbers Huerter has in the past?
Just curious where you think he is headed. I’ve great if he can.
Seems like Fox is already on board with the signing:
This is great to read.
Derozan should eliminate the majority of ISO Fox during the last ten minutes of the game. If ISO Fox exists with Derozan and Sabonis on the floor then Fox needs to look within himself.
Mike Brown has his work cut out for him, both for offensive schemes and defensive schemes.
And Monte needs to find a good, long rebounder/ rimprotector to address the more immediate needs.
I would think Demar expects to be a starter. And what about Monk? Does he start along side Fox and slide Demar to a forward spot?
There’s still a lot of moving pieces. We’ll have to see what we can get if we trade Huerter, to balance out this roster..
I think Ellis has to be the starter. The defense dramatically improved in March and April when he started, like 4th best in the league during that time. Starting or not, Ellis should be near 30mpg for this team to compete defensively.
I think 30 is a little high but maybe not. IMO shoud be out their in the 4th.
Also it depends on the flow of the game and who the other team has out there.
When Ellis starts Monk, Derozan, or Keegan will have to sit.
Is the emotional connection to Ellis so strong that obvious lack of scoring in the lineup is not considered?
I know this will cause a great hatred for me by saying this. So…once again….Ellis is an average player that the Kings were lucky to find. He isn’t bad at basketball.
Monk did not start one game last year.
There is talk about him wanting to start and commenters trying to manipulate him into the starting lineups. If Ellis starts Monk doesn’t. I also think that if you look at the numbers Monk should clearly start before Ellis does.
Talk? Discounted. I have not seen anything from Monk.
Commenters?: Discounted. I have not seen anything from Mike Brown.
Depends on the numbers – Monk was actually wildly inefficient down the stretch of the season prior to his injury. No doubt, he is the better player. But as a plug-in with Fox, DeRozan, Murray and Sabonis, Ellis may be the better fit – he certainly was by a wide margin defensively by any measurable statistics.
Manu Ginobli was better than every shooting guard that started in front of him during his prime, but Manu is what the Spurs needed off the bench, and he was on the floor for the close of games, especially when the Spurs needed O more than D. And this is the Ellis / Monk dynamic. Ellis can flourish in this starting lineup, but he cannot replicate what Monk does off the bench. Ellis starts, but Monk gets more minutes.
I appreciate you discounting every single one of my observations. Conversation with people who are open minded and considerate of others thoughts and ideas is generally useful.
Manu played behind Tony Parker. Different situation.
Many people have talked about Monk starting. I might listen more than some.
I’m not discounting your observation. I am discounting “talk” and “commenters” that are 3rd party (or worse) and have no weight or sway when it comes to Malik Monk and whether or not he is going to start for the Kings.
And Manu did not play behind Tony Parker. He came off the bench for Michael Finley, Bruce Brown, Roger Mason, Keith Bogans, etc. It was extremely rare for Parker to come out when Manu came in in the 1st quarter. And the standard was for both of them to be on the floor at the end of the game. That is not me discounting your observation. That is me countering it based on memory, followed by confirmation by looking at basketball reference.com.
You talk here as a commenter. Those are the people talking and the comments I was referring to.
I won’t discount your opinion. What context you apply to my observations to fit your internet sleuthing is up to you.
I truly do enjoy the vast majority of the conversations here. I am new to this group. Some people clearly prefer to keep it to the same few people they agree with.
The only thing I have heard about Monk wanting to start was at his exit interview when he mentioned it. He also said that he is willing to do whatever is best for the team. I think most players want the title “NBA Starter”, so saying that is kind of expected.
Yes, we agree, Monk said he would like to start. Other commenters here have also inserted him into the fantasy starting line ups when he signed the deal.
It is ok. We can all get along. I don’t think Monk will start. I was trying to have a conversation that recognized other people’s opinion that he should start. I also think that Monk is clearly a better player than Ellis.
Shall I impale myself on my sword or walk into the wilderness never to return while the cool kids of the Kings Herald stone me?
Or simply understand that it is not personal when someone does not agree with your opinion, no more so than it is when someone agrees with it?
It isn’t personal. My point was clearly understood. Thanks.
Sure, people here have included Monk in starting lineups. They have done the same for Trey Lyles over Harrison Barnes. Sasha Vezenkov over Harrison Barnes.
Commenters like to theory craft and opine for lineup changes on this site. Usually with some good points, and at times a little off-base.
Exactly. That is what I was talking about. I appreciate your open mind and candor. People have put Jordan Ford in the starting line up.
I think the Monk vs. Ellis as a starter is an interesting thing to look at.
Maybe Ellis is a better sixth man because he is a defensive player on a team full of offense first players?
Maybe Monk is better starter because he can score and put pressure on defense?
Conversation worth having in my opinion.
I say the opposite. Starter have 4 scorers, so Ellis starting makes sense. Bench is not very offensive, so Monk is needed to balance the scoring. Either way, they all play together at times, so it doesn’t matter much.
Very true. I brought it up because I think it is an interesting and valid variation.
Clearly any question about Ellis, real or assumed, is not allowed.
So far you are the only person capable of this type of discussion. Appreciate your willingness to do so.
And realistically, if Ellis’ not scoring at the rate Monk does feels like a problem, then the guy converting threes at 41% can mitigate your concerns simply by taking more shots.
Ellis is Doug Christie. He can get you twenty, but is content to work within the offense, which has a couple of All-NBA guys in it. I’d guess the defensive numbers with Monk starting at SG would look a great deal like they did when Huerter was starting.
Let Ellis continue to start with DeRozan at SF. If it stops working, you try something else, but if you look at the numbers, or just go by what you’ve seen, Ellis makes a difference, that no other guards have come close to generating.
Come on, Rob. Brown should really be basing more of his personnel decisions based on what fantasy GMs think.
And if you want to give those comments weight, great. I’m going with the fact that Mike Brown started Ellis 11 times when Monk was an option, and that he never started Monk (even when Fox was out), and that Brown has stated in the past how important and unique Monk is when it comes what he brings off the bench, and that it cannot be replicated by anyone else on the roster. Meanwhile, the Kings were 9-2 in those 11 games. Brown loves defensive effort, and Ellis gives that in a big way. For all of those reasons, I lean Ellis over Monk as a starting option. And as I often note – as a commenter – I know nothing.
I don’t understand the rest of your comment. I apologize if I have offended you in any way.
You are talking as a commenter on a public forum. Per your standards this should be discounted.
I will still respect you though.
If you are an NBA GM and you had to pick Ellis or Monk who do you pick?
The drama that follows any discussion of Ellis being less than a god of basketball is dramatic here.
It should absolutely be discounted. I know nothing.
And you don’t know me, so respecting me is not really on the table. Respecting my opinion is another matter, since it is on display here. Respect that or not at your discretion and pleasure.
Go on. Get it out. Feel free. This is your safe place.
Yeah, tapping out on this, as I’m sure that it is boring the ever living shit out of the folks that came here to talk Kings basketball and not measure internet genitalia.
Go Kings.
Go put some pants on!!!
You are measuring. It makes sense now.
I will not discount your measurements but don’t try to claim the centimeters are inches.
ShaneKC saying things most around here are afraid to say. Big ups to you.
I enjoy the conversation. I see a lot of basketball and a lot of different teams. I guess my perspective is different. I am a basketball fan that would enjoy seeing this team go from entertainment to contender.
Right, because not enough of us here are talking about genitalia.
I mean, I do what I can.
I’d like to know what numbers you are referring to.
All of them.
Now you will come back and have a very specific manipulation of stats to try to “prove me wrong”. Saying Ellis is average and that Monk is a better player is clearly dangerous here.
I understand. I am ok with my own opinions and not being cool.
Overall, Keon Ellis is an average NBA player. I haven’t seen anyone say he was an all-star level player. For the group of players on the current roster, Ellis fits in as very good player because he is unique. He plays defense at a prime position and shoots the 3 well. The rest of his game is just okay, but those two attributes I listed make him so important to the Kings.
I’ll add that he is an insane value to contract, and you need a couple of those to offset the deals at the top of your payroll.
Please continue.
Yes we agree.
Why is talking about Ellis such a sensitive subject here?
There was a commenter who kept jokingly saying that Keon was the G-League player that was going to the Hall of Fame, basically taking any praise for Ellis out of context.
Also, Keon was undrafted and made his way through the Stockton Kings to the big show, worked his ass off, and Sacramento fans seems to have a place in their hearts for a guy like that.
I know all about Ellis and his journey. A great use of the G League and he is an average player. More than most that come out of that process.
I am not knocking the guy. There are better players and one day the Kings may replace him with a better player. Reality.
Maybe he gets better?
Maybe to make a playoff run they need someone other than Ellis?
That very well could be. Or it could be that they replace Ellis with a player who is conventionally known to be a better player but is a worse fit, leading to more losses. Those things are so hard to know.
FWIW, I agree with you that Ellis is average at the moment. But his fit seems to be really great with the Kings, for some of the reasons mentioned above – excellent net rating, lack of need to control the ball translating into great shot decisions, ability to switch on defense. His strengths are things the Kings have badly needed for a long time. At his contract, I would be hard-pressed to do anything other than increase his minutes.
Funny how that person seems to have disappeared at the same time ShaneKC became painfully ubiquitous.
That other person also claimed to be from KC and writes very similarly, needing to respond to absolutely every comment with the final word. Hmm…
What’s “all of them?”
I mean Ellis is 41.7 3PT% and Monk is 35 3PT% so it is not all of them. And Ellis is a significantly better defender.
Well clearly it is not all of them.
As expected.
Lol. That’s why I asked what numbers you used so we can try to make sense of it.
Instead you gave me “all of them”.
Or you can just give me one stat and we can discuss about it.
If you had to pick one player who would you take?
Ellis?
Monk?
Every player has a single stat that makes them better than other players.
The cool kids appreciate your participation. You belong.
Nah man. I am a stat nerd. I am not cool.
I can see the argument why Monk should start but he does not have to. For the balance of the roster.
But he could close games depending on certain situations.
They are both similar players if Ellis continues to develop as he has. Which is why I think the conversation about which could start is interesting.
An NBA sixth man is either Ellis style or Monk style.
No they are different types of players. Ellis’ ceiling is about Kentavious-Cauldwell Pope.
If you understand why the Orlando Magic, who had been rumored to go after Monk in free agency, chose to pay KCP 22mil/year, then you know why Keon Ellis is valuable.
Maybe Keon Ellis will develop into KCP. Maybe not. We will see.
That is an interesting connection. Haven’t thought of those two as being similar.
The Kings staggered ball handling/playmaking last season by having 2 of Fox/Monk/Sabonis on the court almost every game. I expect that to similar this season by adding DeRozan in to that group.
Ellis fits in well (as an average player) because he doesn’t demand the ball, nor does he need to get his shots to be effective. He provides spacing with his 42% Spot-up from 3 and his stellar defense. Every team needs a 3-and-D guy in the starting unit when there are other high usage players starting as well.
I suspect that the guard rotation will look something like Fox/Ellis, Monk/Ellis, Fox/Monk, etc. They did that same type of thing last season.
Ellis had a net rating of 5.5, while Monk was 0.1. Offensive Rating was nearly the same, but Ellis was much better defensively. End of the day, it is about scoring more than you give you up, and I think that is where Ellis comes in to play on this team, as currently constructed.
Are you saying Ellis will score more than Monk?
I don’t think either one should start but if one had to choose Monk is the clear choice for me.
No. Monk will always average more Points than Ellis. The TEAM performed better when Ellis was on the court.
If the team performed better when Ellis was on the court he should play more than Monk. I am all for it if that works out to be reality.
It’s all about the synergy that a 5 man unit has. Monk is needed for his play style, and Ellis for his.
Great point! Ellis has much better value for the contract and does what very few players do well– play great defense. Yes, Monk is the more coveted player, but he is inefficient and has a good amount of turnovers. I think Ellis makes pretty good decisions and should start, unless Monk really gets mad, as Ellis is likely ok finding his role in any way possible.
No, Monk would score more.
But the opponent SG would score significantly less when Ellis is in instead of Monk.
“I mean Ellis is 41.7 3PT% and Monk is 35 3PT% so it is not all of them”
Flip a coin I guess?
Um, maybe you don’t know how to analyze stats.
Those were the stats you used to say that Ellis would score more. Now you say Monk would score morel.
Flip a coin.
Monk will take more shots, therefore he will probably score more.
Good defense. You helped a buddy out with math.
Monk attempts almost twice as many shots per 36 minutes as Keon (16.1 vs 8.5) but Ellis’s FG% (.460 vs .433), 2P% (.559 vs .514), and 3P% (.422 vs .355) are all better. Monk has a much better FT% (.844 vs.714).
Additionally, Keon rebounds slightly better per 36 (4.5 vs 4.1) while Monk’s assists are better (4.7 vs 3.1). Ellis is also better with steals (1.9 vs 0.9), blocks (1.0 vs 0.5) and turnovers (1.3 vs 2.6) while fouling quite a bit more (4.2 vs 2.6).
We really need to take Keon’s numbers with a grain of salt, given how much less time he’s been in the league. That said, right now the pros for Keon look like this:
Pros:
FG%
2P%
3P%
Rebounds
Steals
Blocks
Turnovers
For Monk, the pros are:
FT%
Assists
Fouls
In short, Keon (after only 73 games, mind you) shoots a better percentage and his defensive stats are much better. Plus, he doesn’t demand the ball, so he plays within the flow of the offense.
Monk is a playmaker who hits his free throws and takes a lot of shots.
I don’t have any emotion over Keon whatsoever. Just looking at the numbers per 36, I can’t even imagine why Brown would entertain plugging Monk into the starting lineup. He’s the guy who gets the second lineup involved – something Keon just doesn’t do at the same level. As far as end of game, I’ll take the high usage player who hits his free throws.
With no additional moves via trade or FA, then I think Ellis comes in for Fox or DD. Ellis needs to be the 1-3 options off the bench (minutes at each position would help him reach 25-30 a game) unless we get a big man to start.
Well, that’s Monk, obviously.
For sure or we get a second (not as good option) player, like Stewart or Zach Collins (I doubt SA would trade him now, but Monte should have tried). A guy who deflects passes and gets steals (Ellis) might help a bit more than a shot blocker, but we need both either way.
As Adamsite pointed out, you are exchanging a low usage guy (Barnes) for a high usage guy (DeMar), so I don’t see how you’re gonna find balance if you’ll add Monk to the mix.
IMO Monk needs to be that 6th man. Look what he did last year and the year before that. He brings a whole lot different game to the name” backup”. I would also IMO be there in the 4th. quarter.
Yeah, I like him for the energy and playmaking he brings off the bench. I know he would like to start but he’s very needed to run the 2nd team. Plus, he gets plenty of crunch time play.
Not having a blatantly obvious starting five is a sign the Kings are moving towards the ranks of the better NBA teams.
That’s a tough one. I don’t know if Malik resigns if he’s not starting. Or maybe he’s accepted the Lou Williams role. I think DDR plays the 3, which moves Keegan to the 4. Now, if we somehow get a quality starting PF, then that creates a problem because SOMEBODY has to come off the bench. And it won’t be Fox, DDR, KM, or Domas.
I think a good backup PF/C works, but dammit MM needs to get on it.
Just my opinion.
Putting money to the side – I don’t believe that any of the other possible landing spots for Malik Monk were offering a starting SG role for him.
And how has MM excelled? He was 2nd in Sixth Man of the Year Award voting because he is a darn good 6th man. Maybe let him play to his strength, and maybe he knows that.
Opinion accepted my friend. Me personally, I’m open to all options that makes us a true contender. Last chip was 1956 I believe???
We are well overdue.
Very thorough breakdown of the pros and, well, if not cons, then maybe not-pros?
If Sabonis’ improvement from three is real, and he can take & make more of them per game, that would certainly alleviate the problem of too many Kings needing to operate in the paint.
One of Mike Brown’s goals should be to try to limit Deebo’s minutes to something like 33 per game, if at all possible. The man is durable, but ideally, he’s not among the leaders in minutes per game. If a solid backup SF or PF can be found, Keegan should be able to slide down to SF when DeRozan is resting.
No summer league threads, but I was able to watch most of three games so far. Small sample size disclaimer in effect, but Keon’s defense is crazy good, and I like that he’s creating his own shot more often. I still start him at shooting guard with DeRozan at the three.
Adonis Arms, already a hall-of-famer going by name, sure looks like a guy who could be developed into an NBA player. Aggressive getting to the rim on offense and for boards, and a very encouraging ability to keep the ball moving and make good passes.
Antoine Davis can shoot the ass off the ball. It’s a shame that he’s only 6’1″ but if he joins Stockton and can rain down threes in the neighborhood of forty percent, he’ll be a hard man to keep down.
And Mason Jones? He came to play! He looks assertive without being greedy, and has been in everyone’s face on defense. Speaking to that, the players on both Sacramento squads appear to have been told that defense is highly valued, and they have taken that to heart. If my memory serves, the Kings 1 squad has given up just 109 points in two games, which is pretty impressive.
(After hearing about the travel schedule for China’s team, it’s possible that they were playing as the most jet-lagged squad in the history of the sport, but kudos to the Kings team for getting the kind of result you’d hope for against a team like that at 101-50.)
Boogie Ellis (small guard alert #655) is looking like a player worth investing in. Ordinarily, I’m opposed to having too many players with the same names (Joneses & Ellises galore), but there may be some exceptions.
Isaiah Crawford is looking like a smart signing, and Lual-Acuil looks to be a hyper-athletic rim-runner and rebounder. If the latter can be taught to shoot with more consistency, he could be stashable, possibly.
Always hard to say if there are any NBA rotation guys in the mix, but if nothing else, I like the two groups, and the way they’ve played the game so far.
All great points – still early but always great to watch some ball.
I agree that Boogie Ellis looks very intriguing in that Jordan Ford-esque development role. 3rd PG 2-Way kind of kid. He’s looked comfortable in his drives, defense, and shot. His leadership also kind of jumps off the screen. Could’ve been another developmental steal.
I’d add to your list that Isaac Jones has looked interesting as a stretch 4 with some length and energy. Another 2-way guy to stash and develop. He’s not ready yet, but seems to fit. Maybe a future roster spot replacement after the Lyles contract.
Both are definitely fun teams to root for and maybe some Neil Diamonds in the Rough.
You know, it’s interesting about Jordan Ford…
This is in no way meant to imply a hard comparison, or even that Ford is at the same athletic level, but Ford clearly spent a lot of time watching Steph Curry play ball.
His moves to make space for his shot, and ability to improvise at the rim just echo things that Curry does. Ford is a fun watch, whether or not he ever gets to the NBA.
Curry changed the game. The majority of young players and coaches at the lower levels have been copying his game and the Warriors style of play for obvious reasons.
The bits and pieces of games that I watched has me jonesing for more—especially more of Mason Jones. Mason’s new physique seems to have unleashed a lot more energy on the court, putting him ahead of Colby in the Jones sweepstakes.
P.S. I found a summer league thread.
The only guy in Summer League that popped as an obvious NBA player was Keon. Which is a good thing, since he’s probably our starting SG. He actually showed some 3-level scoring which was quite surprising and intriguing. He really might be a lot better than I expected him to be this season, and I already felt I was expecting a lot for a guy who only has 20 games of good basketball under his belt.
Everyone else had some flashes but ehhh. Flashes are better than nothing, but I’m not going to bet any of these guys ever move beyond the G-League at this moment in time. You did a good job of touching on everyone’s relative strengths.
Colby Jones has been a disappointment thus far. As a guy I was high on last draft, and who has had a year of seasoning so far, he didn’t dominate lesser talent like I’d hoped. I believe part of this is that he’s an extremely unselfish, do-the-little-things, connective player and the Summer League is a lot of guys trying to get theirs to impress scouts. It’s not conducive to his playstyle. Still, he defends well, can grab and go, and constantly makes good choices. There’s an outline of a versatile player there, but he needs to fill it in with more substance – particularly being able to score enough and shoot the 3 well enough that teams need to respect him on that end. His passing isn’t as useful if teams can always anticipate that’s what he will do, and his driving isn’t useful if he isn’t enough of a shooting threat to open lanes, and doesn’t have a tight enough handle to execute, anyway. Ballhandling and shooting are certainly teachable skills to an extent, so I’m not giving up on him if those are his swing traits. But if he were going to develop them, I would’ve thought he’d be further along after a year in the NBA.
I do apologize if I suggested that any of the players other than Keon was an obvious NBA player. I meant to convey that there were some who could eventually play in the NBA, not that any of them were already at that level.
I understood what you were saying. I also forgot to mention that Mason Jones actually does look like he might be an NBA player.
I was at the game last night. I think you’re right in saying his play style isn’t conducive to what Summer League is. They’re playing a formalized version of pick-up basketball right now so it’s nice to see dominance but really you just don’t want to see a guy getting embarrassed. I wish he would have been in attack mode more, but at the end of the day these games are valuable reps and this is an important part of his development process. I don’t remember Keon dominating last year during Summer League and as it turns out he might be a starting guard for us.
I think one of the most impressive things that Keon has done while playing in the SL so far is how often he is putting people in the right position.
He is constantly telling other players where to be on offense in order to get the play going; sometimes he isn’t even in the play while directing it. He took on the yoke of leadership and he’s helping his SL teammates show what they can do.
Adonis Arms is absolutely one of the best names in human history, not just in athletics.
Great fit offensively…suspect fit defensively. Hopefully there are more moves to come because this team is likely still a 5-6 seed in the West. They definitely improved their talent level and huge upgrade over Barnes. It was a win of a night for sure.
I think we’re all seeing the same positional needs – possible starting PF, Backup Rim Protecting C, and Defensive Minded Bench Wing.
With Carter out, does that limit trading Huerter? I am not sure we can get Collins coming back with just Huerter salary-wise.
Obviously we all have talked about Markannen, Collins, Bey or Kuzma…but here are some interesting names that haven’t discussed. What do you think? Would any of these fit?
Huerter for Robert Williams and Matisse Thybulle
Signing Precious Achiuwa, Isaac Okoro, Covington, T.J. Warren
What other names would you be interested in other than the most talked about to fill out the roster with our exemptions?
I will note one thing as it pertains to the defense. DeRozan for Barnes does not hurt the defense, and the defense was more than cromulent after Ellis entered the starting lineup – I think that defensive stats over that haul were very encouraging (beware the small sample size, however). DeRozan does not solve the “New Orleans Conundrum,” however, so to your point, there is still work to be done.
If the Kings do nothing else but have improved by even 2 points per game, they will have moved from 16th in point differential to 7th. That’s 50 win territory, and yes, that probably translates into a 5-6 seed in the brutal West. But that avoids the play-in, and then it comes down to playoff matchups. Also, it buys you time to the trade deadline to see how this group works and to (hopefully) adjust accordingly at that time.
I’d love to see Huerter go for Stewart or Collins or some such, but failing at that, Huerter does have some value to this roster as bench guard / small forward (matchup specific).
Also, barring an injury exception for Carter (meaning that he misses the year), I will be very surprised if the Kings add contract beyond the vet minimum at this point, given their proximity to the 1st apron.
I can’t help but smile about the concern that Sacramento doesn’t have enough guards on the roster if Huerter leaves, particularly after reading so much to the contrary last week.
We’ve lost two in trades, although, in reality, only one, considering DeRozan is more than capable at the position. I’m hopeful that DDR will spend the majority of his time at SF, but depth on the perimeter doesn’t feel like a particularly urgent concern.
As ever, you add talent wherever you can find it.
To your point:
Fox / Monk / Ellis / McLaughln. These are the guys that can handle PG, especially when you take into consideration that Sabonis and DeRozan are on the floor (the number of times that Sabonis rebounds, brings the ball up and initiates is both insane and under-appreciated).
Ellis / Monk / DeRozan / Murray / Jones. This would be your complement of rostered players that could serve at the 2 sans Huerter. This does not include Devin Carter.
To your point, the guard position is no more than the 3rd largest depth concern on the roster, depending on how you feel about Alex Len. Talent at the 4 and depth at the 3 seem to be more pressing concerns to me, and another big body wouldn’t hurt, either.
I would like another vet minimum C on the roster before training camp, which I feel confident will get done. Right now we can’t afford Sabonis nor Len to miss a minute of time, and that just doesn’t seem feasible.
Huerter for Isaiah Stewart would solve the PF/C issue. Thinking about Huerter more, it seems like he will be the odd man out.
I disagree. To me, Huerter will become expendable if Devin Carter proves that he’s an NBA wing when he returns from injury. Otherwise, I see Huerter getting about 15-20 mpg at the 2/3 spot. Him and Lyles look like the 7th and 8th men in the rotation because of their positional versatility and shooting. I think he’ll actually play an extremely valuable role this season.
He might be valuable, he might also be the guy that needs to go. The options for a good PF/C on the market are thin at best. Going in to the season with Lyles as the only PF is scary to me. It is going to be up to the staff to decide if they want to play small with Huerter, or bigger with a PF.
We certainly still need a long, athletic forward. And Huerter+Lyles are the only contracts that will bring back a guy like that. Still, I believe the two of them are excellent depth pieces for this roster, and so I’d be hesitant to ship out both unless the upgrade at the forward position was extremely obvious, particularly on the defensive end (John Collins, Jonathan Isaac, DFS). DeMar makes me much less interested in a guy like Kuzma, since Kuzma’s main appeal was his secondary scoring and tertiary playmaking, which is what DeMar is here for.
What works, but is probably unlikey to happen, is Huerter + Lyles for Beef Stew + Fontecchio. It even saves the Kings roughly $2m on the cap, opening up more options for Paul Reed, etc.
I doubt that happens, but I also doubted that DeRozan would be a King at the start of free agency.
Whatever the deal is, I’ll feel more comfortable making one if Carter or Colby prove by the trade deadline that they’ll be able to replace Huerter’s production in the rotation. Otherwise, we get our upgrade over Lyles and leave a gaping hole behind Ellis/DeRozan at the 2/3. For now, I just wanna get a look at what this team is like right now before we take another swing.
The big if is Lyles is in a position of need. I might want to throw in Colby Jones there for Stewart and Font. This is how we stay out of the tax range and get better.
At $16 million with average defense in a position that we don’t need, a lot of GMS would move him for a better defender at the position of need– 4/5. He costs a lot for his production of 10-15 minutes and psychologically will likely not be able to handle a bench role. He has to go if you want to crack the top 5 in the West, as he’s our only trade chip. Please move him fast before John and Zach Collins, Stewart, and Achiuwa are not possibilities.
If not Reed then Precious.
I’ve liked Reed for a while now. He’d be a great depth 4/5.
Reed for a good deal, but we may need to give up Colby Jones and a second for Precious (he might be restricted FA).
I think the need for a true four has been obvious for at least two years now.
The “this hurts the Kings defense” talking point is being conjured up by national media talking heads who don’t know what they’re talking about, and LA fans who are mad as hell that Deebo isn’t on their team right now.
There is merit to how DeMar will affect spacing, but I also think this point is being overblown as a chance to dunk on the Kings from commentators that would not be nearly as concerned about spacing if he were in a Lakers/Clippers jersey right now. It’d all be about “LA adds another star! Are they title contenders!?!?!?”. But when the Kings land that same player it’s “yeah, but idk if they’ll make it out of the play-in.” Kings bias is extremely real.
We’ll see how the season goes, but with the exception of the Thunder and maybe TWolves/Mavericks, I’ll back the Kings 8-10 man rotation against anyone in the conference. And that’s before we land another forward.
Kings are nowhere near beating The Pels. Pels are significantly more complete on defense 1-8. And it’s not close. Even if the Kings had a 2
month stretch of good defense at the end of the season. The Pels, Where everyone is a top notch defender.
not just a couple players. If a team beats you 6x. And an azz kicking none of the games were close. Let that resonate. Demar does not neutralize the Pels strengths or solve that issue at all.Brown or Murphy will completely shut him down. Pels have so many horses to shut all of Sacs offense down. Length and disciplined across the board. Kings are improved. But right now no better than 5-6 And while they may make another move. Other teams In the West hierarchy are probably doing the same.
Demar gets the Kings back in the playoff conversation. But Demar has a ceiling. His age. Regardless it’s a great pick up. They are only playing him 25, he makes the Kings a playoff team again, and the team will
improve.
But this team is not a championship
contender.
Dallas is more seasoned. Better backcourt by far. Picked up Klay. Say what you will but still shot 40
from 3 last year. Better than most Kings.
Minny: Too long and defensive.
OKC: A year more tenured. Incredible ceiling to dominate for the next 10
years. Youth, Picks, Assts, Money, one of the best Gms and owners in the NBa
The Pels crushed the Kings when JV could neutralize Sabonis on the interior. Who’s gonna do that now? Yves Missi?
The Pels would also neutralize Murray and Barnes on the wings with Herb Jones and Naji Marshall. But now Naji is gone and DeRozan is not one to be neutralized by anybody. Pels also lost Dyson Daniels and Nance Jr. This is not the tenacious defensive team it was just a couple months ago, and that makes this is a vastly different matchup now.
No JV, Daniels, Naji, and Nance changes the entire identity of this squad. Only Herb Jones remains as a high level defensive talent. They have a lot of ??? rn.
THEY ADDED DANIEL THEIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you have a pretty fair analysis.
DeMar averaged 24pts, 5.5 reb, 7.5 ast, on 54.8% from the field with only 4 turnovers in 80 minutes against the Pelicans, with the Bulls winning both games.
I guess the phrase “will be completely locked down” from the previous commenter means different things to different people.
I’d argue that the Pels are close to Minnesota, whereas Dallas, albeit good, might be a step below them. I think Dallas and Denver can be beaten and OKC is close to us, but like the Pels and Wolves– lengthy.
Pels only have length on the perimeter. They will be demolished on the defensive glass.
Monty adds that PF and I agree with you 100%.
Nuggets?
Jokic is the only reason to believe the Kings aren’t head and shoulders better than the Nuggs rn imo. They are a 5 player rotation at the moment.
Jokic is on the Nuggets roster.
Fair and agree with the assessment of playoff matchups (Dallas being #5 this year definitely speaks to that)…so what are those vet minimum guys that you are eyeing?
Right now it’s most likely…
Fox / McLaughlin
Ellis / Monk
DeRozan / Huerter
Murray / Lyles
Sabonis / Len
Not a bad 10 player lineup but would like to upgrade that Len spot.
You probably can get Paul Reed with the MLE.
If you’re Vivek, do you go over the apron for Paul Reed?
Would I go into the first apron for Paul Reed? Probably because to me it’s a need…but it isn’t my money. Would Vivek or MM do it, probably not.
I like some of the names you threw out there for potential spot fillers. Could be interested in either Achiuwa or DeAndre Jordan. How much is DeAndre an upgrade over Javale? I don’t know, just posing the question.
I thought DeAndre agreed to return to the Nuggets
you’re right – sorry was replying to Rob’s point below. DeAndre is “expected to sign” a one year vet minimum $3.6 million contract to stay with the Nuggets according to Chris Haynes.
So yeah, he’s off the board.
From what I understand the Kings cannot go over the first apron as they are now hard capped. Any additions, either by trade or free agency, now have to be under the apron. According to Spotrac, they are about $11M below the apron, but I’m not sure if that is accurate.
I saw the other day that Bertans had been waived by Charlotte. Asking honestly: Do we care?
DET claimed Paul Reed off of the waiver wire. Roughly $8M/yr with 2 yrs left on his deal, but his full salary ($7.7M) for 2025 is not guaranteed until Jan 2025.
Could be this be a move to add depth because Stew is on the table?
I don’t know if Cedi Osman or Okoro are at vet. minimum player level yet, but that would be OK as a backup at the 3-4, as well as maybe McDermott, Covington or Achiuwa.. There are quite a few Cs still out there (DeAndre Jordan, Mike Muscala, Paul Reed). From the don’t laugh bin, how about Metu or Harry Giles?
I won’t laugh at that, if you won’t laugh at a Huerter for Nikola Vucevic trade
Count me in on the Metu movement. And bringing back Giles would give me smiles.
IMO it would take Huerter and Lyles to get Collins. Contracts close to matching. For Stewart IMO Huerter’s salary almost matches Stewart’s but would probably cost more in picks.
My hope is that someone wants Colby Jones, who does not really justify a chance at playing time (maybe 5 minutes on defense), and we package him with Huerter. That would give us a roster spot and maybe about $2-3 million.
It might work. Huerter and Jones for Isaiah Stewart. Might have to throw in a second or two.
I’d be surprised if he has any value on the market, since he has so very little here.
I think he’s got a good feel for the game, but his shooting is crap, and he’s not the kind of athlete who can overcome something like that.
Let him develop some more, I’d be delighted for Jones to surprise me.
Robert Williams, if healthy, would be solid. Thybulle doesn’t help with the shooting, so he’s not as needed when we have Ellis. Achuiway and Stewart are some of the best players we can get at this point. Okoro would be solid and I would take Covington for cheap, as I have wanted him for about 2 years if he still has a decent motor.
Tari Eason. I will die on this hill!
Did Deebo use the Lakers to sign with us like Iggy used us to sign with the Warriors? Git fukt LA. Love the player, veteran leadership and, from what I keep hearing, just seems like a really good dude to have on a team and in a locker room.
I’m torn on Huerter. I love him as a backup wing, but moving him for the right defensive big would be tough to pass on.
If the Kings trade for Stewart or Collins I’m worried about team chemistry. Both guys are starters that play big minutes and are use to being in the game at crunch time, not sure if either would be happy coming off the bench. Does Brown bench Keegan down the stretch in favor of Stewart or Collins? Does Brown slide Keegan to the 3, DeRozan to the 2, which would mean benching Monk. What about Ellis who wants to play and is essential to the defense?
Sorry to be long winded but team chemistry is fragile. If I’m an NBA player the guy taking my minutes better be better than me.
All of them are better than me.
Great problem to have.
The Kings “Big” Lineup:
Fox
DeRozan
Keegan
Lyles (or PF Collins, Cam Johnson, Stewart, etc.)
Sabonis
The Kings “Scoring/Small” Lineup
Fox
Monk
DeRozan
Keegan
Sabonis
The Kings “Defensive” Lineup
Fox
Elllis
DeRozan
Keegan
Sabonis
of note; Maybe Jalen McDaniels is this season’s Chris Duarte. However, he is 6’81/4″ barefoot, 7’1/4″ wingspan. He is a very light #190 and maybe he can add some D. Maybe not.
And to keep comments on the real, let’s use this Billy Donovan quote:
And realize that DeMar DeRozan played 37 min per game. SO – what about that other minute, that 37th one. Is is something that folks just don’t want to talk about? Inquiring minds need to know.
DeMar DeRozan besides being a 6x All-Star has also been All-NBA three times. The guy can defend. Maybe he’s not on the All-D teams, but no one makes All-NBA 3x and is a poor or less than average defender. Oh and the pundit on the Athletic that covers the Celtics and grades the trade as Spurs: A and Kings D- has been muted on my X feed. Has this guy ever watched a Kings game in his life?
He gave the Kings a D- in his analysis?
His analysis is an F-.
Great thoughts on the different lineups. I have been thinking along the same lines. We do not want DD to play more than 35 minutes, so we need to hold a nice lead, by putting in Keon, Fox, and Keegan (with maybe Len until we get a better big man).
Man derozan can’t play the 2 . The dude hasn’t played the 2 in years .
Which is great, because that’s where Sacramento needs him the least.
IMO if and when either Stewart or Collins become a king both would love to be on a contending team. Neither the Pistons or the Jazz are in the mix. IMO it won’t take much to convince either one to play team ball and do what it takes to move up the ladder. I really like Collins. Been around. Knows a lot of what it takes to be a teammate. I do prefer Stewart. He is big and agile and has a great motor. Did some comparisons with Naz Reid who I really like. Stewart right there and in some cases better. He is all we need to rebound, protect the rim, space the floor( good 3 point shooter) and in my opinion wants to win. Can’t go wrong on either one.
Collins is not a starter especially with what the Jazz did in the draft and signed Eubanks
Great signing, quality upgrade, out of interest does anyone know why the site blocked me ( in the uk ) from visiting till 48 hours after the trade- it did that after the draft for a slightly shorter period of time?
I don’t think it was just you. The times you mention are when everyone tries to get on the site at the same time. Site gets swamped.
Did it happen around the 4th of July? If so, maybe it’s the Americans holding a grudge against the crown still.
But seeriously, I was vacationing in Germany around that same time and got blocked a couple of times when trying to access the site. And I saw some other people mention having the same issue from another European country.
No, it was also an issue in the Netherlands.
TKH’s server discriminates against foreigners.
He definitely doesn’t solve the issues the Kings have had against bigger more physical teams nor does he improve the defense but he DOES give the Kings another shot creator which was badly needed last year. The last couple months of the season and particularly after Huerter and Monk went down, this team couldn’t score efficiently in the half court unless they were red hot from three. That problem should be solved now I would think. There’s just never going to be a time when you don’t have two creators on the court.
Now, the shooting is a real issue but I am willing to bet that Keegan Murray is going to have a pretty big bounce back season as a shooter for a couple reasons. First, he isn’t going to need to be relied upon as the third option on offense and play more like he did his rookie which isn’t a bad thing. I’m glad he got the reps he did last year and showed he can attack a closeout with some success but that’s not where he’s best at this point in his career. I think he actually moves back into a more natural 4th option role now. Second, he should just get more open shots with the defense collapsing constantly to help on either Fox, Derozan or Monk getting into the paint. Right now he is really the key to making this all work. If he can be a reliable high volume shooter it opens up the floor for everyone else.
I still think we’re two moves away from really competing with the upper echelon of the West in the playoffs. We still need another 3 and D wing to spell Keegan and we still need a big that protect the rim. Barring those two things we still have huge matchup issues with bigger teams but we meaningfully improved the talent level of the team and that’s important. Incremental growth is a good thing! At the very least I think we’re closer to the 6th seed than the 10th seed now and that’s important.
Let’s try to get Kennard for a fair price and then our shooting jumps up a ton.
That’s alright but where is the PF?
I like Kennard but I don’t know if he fits. We really need a big wing or a big that can hit a 3. That would take this team to the next level so it’ll be interesting to see if Monte can get that done before the season starts.
Agreed, we just don’t have the money to spend or the trade assets to get someone better than Kennard. Okoro would be nice, but his shot is not good. We need affordable contracts at the 4/5, such as Yurtseven, Stewart, Wendell Carter, Zach Collins, Achiuwa,Love etc.
I’m liking the idea of Achiuwa more and more as a fall back if the other stuff doesn’t pan out. He should be cheap and has even shown the ability to hit the occasional three. I like it.
I just don’t understand why KH isn’t traded for Beef Stew straight up??? It makes sense for both teams. It’s a win win.
Also from other reports, we can get Cam Johnson for KH and a second.
WHY!!!! Make the move MM. We are very close to contending.
Cam has a big contract so that won’t work. Huerter for Stewart I really like.
I agree. KH for Stew is very solid.
Red Velvet for Beef Stew.
Different tastes, but I’d be excited to see him cook with the Kings.
Can Beef Stew work with Lithuanian Lasagna?
Why not?
Will the dressing area be transformed to The Meat Locker?
With the two of them on the court, will the hue and cry from the Arena be something akin to:
Totally agree– I just think that Monte should be trying for John Collins, Zach Collins, and then Steward and Achiuwa, as the next best options.
Alright, if I had to watch this, you ALL have to watch this. 🙁
https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1810449351308693892
I would, but I refuse to give a single click to xitter.
I’m in. You got me buddy! They Not Like Us!
Cringe asf.
“They’re Nothing Like Us!”
I think TKH has their new motto for an apparel line.
Uhg. Uncomfortable. DeRozen does a good job of pretending
Now that I have watched it, can I try and unwatch it?
It’s so on-point for Vivek, cringey & corny in equal parts.
Happy to see so many people getting on the Beef Stew Wagon. On the DeMar fit/chemistry issue, I’ll defer to Rik Smits: ‘Mike Brown has his work cut out for him’.
With a great salary increase comes great responsibility!
That’s why we paid Brown that big money.
Why not deandre hunter ? Trade Kevin huerter to the pistons and Colby w a second round draft pick or two to the hawks . They want to clear cap space and the kings still need to get longer .
Hunter has a big contract, Can we afford that?
i mean other guys that fans want like Collins kuzma and cam got bigger contracts so I’m guessing yes lol
Kevin Huerter to the Pistons works. If you add Jones then you add about 3mil, Hunter has a big contract so you wouldn’t want to do that. Hawks wouldn’t go for that anyway.
DeMar’s numbers against the Pelicans last year:
MIN PTS REB AST FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA FTM FTA FT%
40 24 6 7 6 13 46.2 2 4 10 12 83.3 +4
40 24 5 10 10 18 55.6 2 4 2 2 100.0 +2
Not bad.
I was playing with the fanspo trade machine (https://fanspo.com/nba/trade-machine) and FWIW, it says trading Kevin Huerter straight up for any of the following is a legit trade:
John Collins
Zach Collins
Kyle Kuzma
DeAndre Hunter
Cameron Johnson
Isaiah Stewart
Lauri Markannen
I just ran these particular players because they were mentioned in the thread as a possible target by at least one commenter. I didn’t consider what additional draft assets might have to accompany each trade or the long-term salary ramifications in my scope.
I can’t speak to that machine’s accuracy, but I couldn’t double-check against ESPN since ESPN hadn’t updated the roster for DeRozan at the time I was doing it.
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