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Answering your offseason questions

You asked, we answer.
By and | 157 Comments | Jul 19, 2024

You had plenty of good questions for us, and we managed to pull Tim away from trolling on Twitter long enough to provide some answers as well! Let’s jump in.

From andy_sims:

Assuming a stretch four isn’t acquired ahead of the season, can you think if any reason why Ellis wouldn’t start at shooting guard, with DeRozan at small forward, given the defensive boost that Ellis provides? (He also shoots really well.)

And if we do get that PF, should Mike Brown start him or Ellis, depending on matchups?

Tim: First and foremost, I want to apologize to the masses. Greg posted a mailbag without including a fable-esque story about himself. I’ve received thousands upon thousands of complaints. You are heard. You are understood.

With that ugliness out of the way, I would like to see Ellis start between Fox and DeRozan. That would allow Sacramento to sic Ellis on the opposing team’s best perimeter threat, which would help to prop up Mike Brown’s overall defensive scheme. Between Fox, Ellis, and Murray, the Kings could shift their defensive pressure around as needed, with quite a bit of versatility between the trio. As mentioned in the question above, Ellis is also a quality shooter (career 42% from deep on 2.5 attempts per game), who has shown some additional skills in Summer League. Unfortunately, I can see the Kings starting the season with Huerter next to Fox, both to reset his trade value and to rebuild his confidence, but if that experiment goes awry again, I expect a quick rotational change by the coaching staff.

Greg: I agree that barring some other impact acquisition, Keon Ellis should be in the starting lineup. He gives you perimeter defense without sacrificing spacing. Essentially you’d be swapping out Harrison Barnes for DeMar DeRozan in the lineup the Kings finished last season with, a lineup that was pretty elite on defense. DeRozan isn’t a great defender, but neither was Barnes. Keegan Murray essentially becomes your 4, which I don’t really have concerns about. Keegan and Keon are both really versatile defenders and can guard a variety of positions, and Fox is no slouch when he’s engaged.

From ThisHotFireKevin:

what one piece of this teams big 3-4 is the most replaceable , and why ?

Tim: Out of Fox, Sabonis, Monk, and Murray, Monk is the most replaceable player, but that’s more of a reflection of the uniqueness of the other three players, rather than a condemnation or criticism of Monk. De’Aaron Fox is a top-20 player in the league, Domantas Sabonis is the engine that makes Sacramento’s engine run, Keegan Murray is a big two-way wing who plays legit defense (imagine if we had two of those!), and Monk is a great scorer and pick-and-roll gunner off of the bench who probably won’t do much else for the Kings this year. If the Kings lost Monk, they would certainly be a much worse team. If the Kings lost any of the either three, they would be a lottery team.

Greg: Agree with Tim, the answer is Monk, especially after the acquisition of DeRozan, giving the team another offensive creator. The Kings really struggled when Monk went down last season because they didn’t have another creator, but DeRozan gives them another option. That’s not to suggest that Monk and DeRozan are redundant, they are both very needed, but DeRozan makes Monk more replaceable than the others.

From RikSmits:

When will the NBA start whistling like FIBA when it comes to players blatantly hunting for fouls?

Things seemed to improve a bit after the AS break, but it’s still annoying.

Tim: Never. Never ever.

Greg: They’re never going to whistle player for foul-hunting, but my hope is that we see a continuation of how the league was officiated in the latter part of last season. The league allowed more physicality, more aggressive defense, and it was wonderful. I think it’s necessary for the long-term health of the game.

From Hippity_Hop_Barbershop:

Is Monte’s vest stuffed with freezer packs in the summer?

Tim: It’s stuffed with future flexibility.

Greg: While we often joke about the Kings always trading for cash considerations, it can’t be cheap to keep Golden 1 Center cold enough for Monte to wear vests all summer.

From Marty:

I finally sat down to start Game of Thrones. I made it halfway through the second episode before I realized I was watching a soap opera and bailed. Is there something wrong with me, or is my assessment correct?

Tim: It’s a soap opera WITH DRAGONS.

Greg: Isn’t most prestige television just fancy soap operas?

From murraytant:

when can McDaniels be traded? and is there a reason he has not been “introduced”?

Tim: McDaniels can actually be traded at any time; however, he cannot be aggregated with other players until two months have passed since the trade date. Sacramento made the trade on the 27th of June, so that restriction should be lifted around the 27th of August. And would you bother introducing salary filler?

Greg: Yeah, the lack of an official introduction seems to suggest that he won’t be in Sacramento very long, and the Kings are waiting for the 60 days to pass so he can be moved in another deal they’ve lined up. Or maybe Jalen has just been busy and didn’t want to drop everything to come to Sacramento in the middle of a July heatwave.

From jwalker1395:

We all agreed Mike Brown wasnt given the personnel last season to build off the 48 wins the year prior. But now, roster is looking pretty stacked.

So what should Kings fans expectations be for this season (certain # of wins? Top 6 seed? 2nd round of playoffs or further?) and if we fail to meet those expectations, what should be the consequences for MB, Monte, and the roster?

Tim: The roster is still short a backup wing and a true backup point guard, but overall, the depth chart is much improved since last season, especially with no one ever having to watch Chris Duarte play again. Personally, my standards for Sacramento this year are second round or bust. They lost no major rotational players, they added a guy who put up 24, 5, and 5 last season, and they have assets left at their disposal to spend.

If the Kings don’t make the second round of the playoffs (postseason success is more important to me than regular season wins), it will depend on the cause of that failure and how close they came. An injury-ravaged season that saw them losing a first round series in six or seven games would be wholly different than losing a play-in game at full strength. If there is a true collapse/failed season, I would expect Monte to be on the hot seat come summer time.

Greg: I actually still have some concerns about the depth of this roster. The Kings need another backup center, and they need another forward. The Kings have a solid top of their rotation with Fox, Monk, Ellis, DeRozan, Murray, Sabonis, Lyles, and Huerter. That’s 8 solid guys. But it’s obviously still very guard-heavy. It’s a roster with talent, but I still don’t think it’s a well-constructed roster. Hopefully the Kings have another move or two before the end of the summer that can balance things out.

From A_Night_At_The_Arco:

Is this draft class really this bad, or do you think folks all making more of SL than we should? I’m not referring to the Kings undrafted 2 way players as they seem better than some of the top picks so far, but they’re also all much more experienced. Thank you!

Tim: The draft seems pretty bad to me. There will be some pretty good starters and role players to come out of it, but no one is really shining.

Greg: This isn’t a bad draft class, it’s just lacking clear top-end talent. But there will be quite a few rotation NBA players in this class, and one or two will become real stars. It’s important to remember that rookies struggling in Summer League isn’t an automatic cause for alarm.

From Adamsite:

Because I haven’t heard much on the subject, will Huerter be healthy and available for camp and/or the start of the season? If not, could his possible trade value be too low at the moment for Monte to consider moving him?

Tim: According to the reports when the surgery was announced, Huerter is expected to be ready for the start of training camp, although we haven’t heard anything either way in the offseason. Huerter’s value isn’t particularly high right now, and I imagine trying to rehab his image before going hard in the trade market is probably the right move.

Greg: Here’s my issue with the idea of not moving a player because their value is low right now: it might not go up any further. I don’t think Huerter’s value is at its peak right now, but it wasn’t as its peak at any time last season. And yet we know from reports that Huerter still has value around the league because front offices don’t put too much stock into one down year. But if Huerter has another year like last year, of if the shoulder is still giving him issues (which I don’t actually expect), or if he just can’t find his rhythm off the bench, maybe it stops looking like a one-year fluke. If Huerter needs a change of scenery, and you can get a player back that you think helps the team, you make the deal even if it isn’t “peak value” for Huerter.

From BuiltToSpill:

Disclaimer: I’m not educated on the NBA cap at all (and really, have no interest in doing the work necessary to understand it). That said, the core of Domas/Fox/DDR/Monk/Keegan are locked in through 2025/26 and all but Fox are locked through 2026/27. To me, the goal should be more than simply making the playoffs – we would all love for the team to be in reach of a championship.

If you guys put on your prognosticator hat, do the Kings have a realistic opportunity (specifically re: cap flexibility) to add another player to the mix who can make the team a championship contender? Alternatively, given that we saw this last year with parity in the West and a 5 seed making the Finals, is it possible that the FO thinks they’re only a move or two away from being a championship contender?

Tim: Salary cap expert or not, I don’ think anyone can fully prognosticate the impact of the second apron in the coming years. This summer, we’ve seen teams duck it at all costs, but does that change if a couple of teams (outside of the Suns) simply go for it for a few years and win a ring or two?

With that in mind, the Kings certainly could make an aggressive move to put them in contender status, especially after the 2025 draft, although it would likely preclude trading DeRozan a year or two after he joined the team. Assuming that a young or in-prime star became available, the Kings could offer DeRozan as major salary in any deal, alongside four first round picks and three of four swaps. Considering the fact that DeRozan is set to make $25 million in 25-26 and $26 million in 26-27, a trade for a third star in their prime would be nearly cap neutral. The Kings might run into some trouble in a year or two, but that’s for them to figure out at that point. They could certainly become a second apron team and deal with those restrictions if they’re a true contender.

Greg: As Tim said, the impacts of the second apron are significant. The biggest impact, even if a couple teams decide to flaunt it, is that the majority of teams will not have the appetite to endure the penalties, both financial and otherwise. It limits your ability to build a team too much. So the expected result is going to be move parity across the league. Windows will be harder to maintain, and teams will make otherwise unfavorable moves to avoid the luxury tax, first apron, and second apron. The status quo will shift.

With that will come opportunity. Opportunity to acquire very good players, especially via sign-and-trade (like we just saw with DeRozan), because those players run out of other options. The Kings really need one move Malik Monk-level move to put them into the next level. Remember when Monk first joined the Kings he was a young, talented player who hadn’t fully put it together yet, and the Kings got him for a bargain. Nail one more impact signing or trade, and the Kings can take a step forward. A year ago Dallas missed the play-in, and last season they went to the Finals. A few lucky breaks is all it takes to dramatically shift your fortunes.

Rapid Fire Lightning Round, from CorlissWinlesson:

Would you rather have Bibby and Webber or Fox and Domas?

Do you think Domas could succeed at the 4?

Do you think there is a strategic reason we haven’t improved our big man depth?

Do you think Fox will stay on the Kings long term?

Can you provide examples of potential starting, 2nd string rotations with current roster?

Do you have any free tickets for next season?

If the Kings ceased to exist, would you rather be a Warriors fan or a Lakers fan?

Did DeRozan join the kings for the money, chance of winning, or other?

If you had to, would you rather start Marvin Bagley or Jimmer Fredette?

Do you think the Kings were considering Ke’lel Ware with the pick?

Tim:

Would you rather have Bibby and Webber or Fox and Domas?: Bibby and Webber

Do you think Domas could succeed at the 4?: Absolutely not.

Do you think there is a strategic reason we haven’t improved our big man depth?: The Kings need wings more than they need bigs.

Do you think Fox will stay on the Kings long term? Absolutely.

Can you provide examples of potential starting, 2nd string rotations with current roster? Starters: Fox/Ellis/DeRozan/Murray/Sabonis, Bench: Monk/Huerter/Lyles/Len

Do you have any free tickets for next season? I live in Arizona.

If the Kings ceased to exist, would you rather be a Warriors fan or a Lakers fan? Warriors, without question.

Did DeRozan join the kings for the money, chance of winning, or other? Money and the Beam.

If you had to, would you rather start Marvin Bagley or Jimmer Fredette? Jimmer Fredette – he can shoot!

Do you think the Kings were considering Ke’lel Ware with the pick? No.

Greg: 

Would you rather have Bibby and Webber or Fox and Domas?: Fox and Domas. Bibby and Webber are way too old now.

Do you think Domas could succeed at the 4?: Not for long stretches.

Do you think there is a strategic reason we haven’t improved our big man depth?: I suspect they’ve tried but just haven’t been able to, I don’t think it’s a strategy to avoid big man depth.

Do you think Fox will stay on the Kings long term? Yes.

Can you provide examples of potential starting, 2nd string rotations with current roster? Starters: Fox/Ellis/DeRozan/Murray/Sabonis, Bench: McLaughlin/Monk/Huerter/Lyles/Len

Do you have any free tickets for next season? I live in Colorado.

If the Kings ceased to exist, would you rather be a Warriors fan or a Lakers fan? If those are my only options, Warriors.

Did DeRozan join the kings for the money, chance of winning, or other? Kings were the best combination of money and winning.

If you had to, would you rather start Marvin Bagley or Jimmer Fredette? Bagley, because I’d get to start someone else after Bagley gets hurt.

Do you think the Kings were considering Ke’lel Ware with the pick? Not with 13. I think he could have been an option if they had traded down.

From RobHessing:

Jerry Reynolds: Great American, or Greatest American?

Can’t wait to vote him for President in 2032 when he’s finally old enough

Tim: Greatest human.

Greg: American, human, why put qualifiers on it? He’s simply the Greatest.

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157 Comments
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TheGrantNapear
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July 19, 2024 10:20 am

Appreciate bringing the Chain Mail column back after a short hiatus, always a good read and appreciate you putting this column out during this global outage! Crazy times of late.

Hobby916
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July 19, 2024 10:29 am

Thanks for the fun read.

As currently constructed, I can’t see a better starting lineup than Fox, Ellis, DeRozan, Murray, Sabonis. With Monk, Huerter, Lyles, and Len as the main bench group, that gives solid production with the varied lineups.

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
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July 19, 2024 10:54 am

Y’all are awesome. Appreciate the double top-secret insider info. Now we know cash considerations = G1C SMUD bill

A_Night_At_The_Arco
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July 19, 2024 11:35 am

Thanks for answering my question!

RikSmits
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July 19, 2024 1:28 pm

Same.

BuiltToSpill
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July 19, 2024 12:05 pm

This was red meat for those of us who are hungry for the season to start now. Thanks for the responses!

I particularly like the callout of the fact that they need to find another Malik-like player on the ascent. It feels like commenters here like Jack are pointing out trades that the Kings could make to acquire those types. As you guys point out, it sure looks like we’ll see a move involving McDaniels at the end of August. Hoping there’s an impact PF coming our way!

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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July 19, 2024 12:19 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

We are guaranteed to see something else this summer. Kings currently have 13 rostered players and must carry a minimum of 14 when they start the season. Now, if they decide to give one of their summer league dudes a regular contract, I’ll be disappointed.

Hobby916
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July 19, 2024 12:21 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

Younger players on the rise, who are also on friendly contracts are going to need to acquired. Fox and Domas are max contracts, Keegan will more than likely get the max rookie scale soon too. Add in DeRozan and Monk, and the cap sheet gets bigger and bigger.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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July 19, 2024 12:28 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I believe they basically have this season and next before a likely Fox and Keegan extension kicks in for the 2026-27 season as well as DeRozan’s partial guarantee. Interestingly enough, Huerter and Ellis will also hit UFA that summer.

Hobby916
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July 19, 2024 12:43 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

The numbers are going to get tight in a couple years. Hopefully they can find some smaller contracts to offset the max contracts.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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July 19, 2024 1:30 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

To your point, I feel that is why future picks are gong to be so valuable, Having controlled and low cost talent is going to be a must with the new CBA and apron rules. Teams who have leveraged all their future picks to win now (Suns) are going to struggle in the years to come. Other pick hungry teams, like OKC and Utah, are going to control the market with all of their low cost contacts. They can retool through the draft each year and not be forced to give out overpays to fringe all-stars.

All that being said, thiis why I’m in the camp of not leveraging our future picks for another “star.” Keep the contracts low and controlled and give out two max deals at the most. This logic makes the DeRozan signing all the wiser, a contract like Huerter’s all the more desirable, and a contract like Ellis’ all the more valuable. Fingers crossed Devin Carter can turn into the next cheap and controlled role player for years to come.

MichaelMack
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July 21, 2024 10:09 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Excellent point Adam.

Hamlet1989
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July 22, 2024 6:19 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I can’t wait to see how bad the Suns are this next season, especially after KD goes on IR.

caseycheesecake
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July 22, 2024 9:44 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Would you trade future mediocrity in 2026-2029 for a 25% chance to win a championship this year?

What about 33%?

Maximus
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July 19, 2024 3:51 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I would decline Ellis’ 2025-2026 option and make him a RFA at the end of this year.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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July 19, 2024 5:54 pm
Reply to  Maximus

Can they? Wouldn’t they need his full bird rights to do that? Do two-way deals count towards 3 year bird rights?

Maximus
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July 19, 2024 8:47 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Yes, bird right counts years of service which include 2-way contract.

No, even early bird right is fine. I think Herb Jones was an early Bird RFA when he signed his current contract.

andy_sims
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July 19, 2024 12:23 pm

Fast turnaround on the mailbag, well done!

As to backup point guards, I think McLaughlin is going to surprise people. The only real knock on him is that he’s just six feet tall, but I expect that he’ll be productive at both ends when he’s on the floor. I think he’s a gamer.

RobHessing
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July 19, 2024 1:21 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Agreed. I think that the guard position is the absolute least of this current roster’s concerns, even with Devin Carter on the shelf.

Sabonis / Len / Lyles
Murray / Lyles /McDaniels
DeRozan / Murray / Huerter
Ellis / Monk / Huerter / Jones (Carter)
Fox / Monk / McLaughlin

Unless we’re sleeping on McDaniels, I’d like to see improvement at the 4. And the 3 could use a little more depth. Unfortunately, it appears that the free agent well has run pretty dry. Barring any trades, I’d try to sign Achiuwa and Osman and call it a summer.

Last edited 10 months ago by RobHessing
RobHessing
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July 19, 2024 1:24 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

And 1 – Maybe the Kings think that their two-ways are going to bring more to the table than I do (for 24-25). Crawford and/or Jones could add some wing depth, though it would be wishful thinking to even hope for Kessler Edwards-level contributions at this point.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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July 19, 2024 1:35 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I agree with you on the wishful thinking in terms of two-way contributions. Maybe we’ve been spoiled with Ellis, but for Monte to find another potential diamond on a two-way could land him the lion’s of GM of the year votes this year. it’s very much a long shot and probably not the best method to building a competitive playoff team. Put it this way, if there is that much talent going undrafted, then the league is long overdue for expansion.

RobHessing
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July 19, 2024 1:45 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

And remember, it took Ellis almost two seasons to convert from a two-way to a guy deserving of an NBA contract. So even if lightning strikes twice with one of these guys, it would seem more likely that they would become viable NBA players a year or two from now.

Adamsite
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July 19, 2024 1:53 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

Great point.

MichaelMack
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July 21, 2024 10:12 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Osman could be a nice fit to soak up 1000-1200 minutes this year. Good size, plays hard, and has had some success as a shooter. Being 10th man doesn’t mean he has to be good every night, but he is streaky enough to make an impact a couple of games a month.

murraytant
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July 21, 2024 9:51 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

there were quite a few gems in the SL- Jones and Crawford were fine but below the level of the gems.

MidtownMike
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July 20, 2024 1:45 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

They pulled Arms from summer league, could be something to that

Hamlet1989
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July 22, 2024 6:33 am
Reply to  MidtownMike

Adonis Arms may be the most allegorical sports name ever!

Jack
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July 19, 2024 3:47 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

The talk with most of you is around do we need a big #4 and should we keep Huerter or not, IMO we do need a #4 that rebounds protects the rim and stretches the floor. I IMO should keep Kevin. He can come off the bench as a reliable shooter. To get this I propose we trade Lyles, Daniels and Jones (money works) and a second or two for Isaiah Stewart. He has everything we need in a #4 as mentioned above. He can also come in for Sabonis when needed or most importantly fill that PF spot in what IMO we really need.

Jack
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July 19, 2024 3:49 pm
Reply to  Jack

IMO Carter is a keeper and when healthy will have an impact on this team.

murraytant
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July 21, 2024 9:55 pm
Reply to  Jack

Jack- there you go- talking to yourself again.
McDaniels is expendable. Lyles vs. Huerter? not sure. C. Jones- disappointment I thought he would be the next Keon.
Stewart would help. Does Detroit want to trade him?

Jack
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July 22, 2024 6:47 am
Reply to  murraytant

Yes.

Hamlet1989
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July 22, 2024 6:43 am
Reply to  Jack

Boston has Tatum. The Kings have Murray. Boston doesn’t have another Tatum, and they won it all. How many 6’9″ forwards do you think it takes?

murraytant
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July 21, 2024 9:50 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

McLaughlin is fine as temporary back up. Pure PG unlike Monk, Jones and unproven Carter.
I do think Monk needs a lob buddy. and the team needs wing depth- And Not Jalen or Jaden or whoever.
I like Huerter’s shooting but too many guards. I would like C. Jones to step it up and be an NBA player- that is a huge disappointment.
I. Jones and Crawford not ready yet although they might get minutes
No intro for McDaniel’s so I think he is on the block on Aug 27.
I would not mind Kuzma, C. Johnson or DFS
I think the duds are being “Ainged”
DeRozen better than Barnes, Cater better than Davion but have to wait and Duarte and Sasha were just baggage.
If zero happens , would not be surprised to see Edwards again.

Jack
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July 22, 2024 6:50 am
Reply to  murraytant

No Kuzma. You know better. Cam maybe but not much defense. DFS not much of anything. Eason yes. Stewart yes.

Hamlet1989
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July 22, 2024 6:31 am
Reply to  RobHessing

I’m wondering why no one seems interested in Okoro. Is there a chance Fox, DeMar, Okoro, Murray, Sabonis, could be better than Ellis at the 2 and DD at 3?
That may be the only scenario where I’m ok moving Ellis to the bench. I think he showed how the starting 5 needs that defensive disruptor, and a little more size might be good. I like Okoro better than Osman, and before you say “He can’t shoot!” check his latest numbers. I could see him making a leap. He is restricted so I suppose no one expects him to be allowed to walk.

Jack
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July 22, 2024 6:51 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

IMO Ellis is as good as Okoro.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 22, 2024 9:44 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

I like Okoro, but not as much as Ellis. Ellis’ perimeter shooting is just that important.

SactownLegendz
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July 19, 2024 3:14 pm

Need some big man depth…feeling nervous if Lyles & Len get hurt again. Hope they could land a guy like Achuiwa, but doubt he’d be willing to come to Sac for the amount they have left of MLE. Wouldn’t mind if they grabbed a vet wing like Crowder/Covington who can also play PF.

Jack
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July 19, 2024 3:53 pm
Reply to  SactownLegendz

Just talking but what about Hary Giles. One of my favorite Kings. IMO he can still play the game.

Jman1949
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July 19, 2024 5:11 pm
Reply to  Jack

If I put on my purple-colored glasses, I’d love to have Giles back with the Kings…but I don’t think we can afford to have someone with his injury history as our emergency backup big. If Monte doesn’t have a better move lined up, I wouldn’t be against bringing back Chimezie Metu or Damian Jones to fill that role.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 19, 2024 10:49 pm
Reply to  Jack

Where is Giles now?

My daughter and I used to him around. Always a nice guy.

TheGrantNapear
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July 20, 2024 7:41 am

Apparently HG signed a two way contract with the Lakers so basically he’s a G league player.
That ship has sailed.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 20, 2024 4:08 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

At least he is getting paid. It is good to see that the desire for nostalgia did not beat the logic of winning.

BuiltToSpill
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July 19, 2024 6:03 pm

Thinking about the question of whether Ellis should start. A few weeks back, I recall that someone posted some numbers showing Net Rating when Fox / Monk are on the floor together. I’d love to see comparisons for Fox/Monk, Fox/Huerter, Fox/Ellis. Does anyone have that data available?

Side note: if there are any sites where I can find that type of data, I would really appreciate any links.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 19, 2024 10:48 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

I ask this question entirely in sincerity.

Other than Keon Ellis starting what is a concern or thought you have about this team?

Jack
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July 20, 2024 6:59 am

IMO we need a PF who can rebound, protect the rim (especially weakside) and stretch the floor. He also can be a backup to Sabonis. IMO Isaiah Stewart can do both. If not Stewart then Tari Eason although he would not be a backup center. Although I like Eason over Stewart ” beef stew” but IMO Stewart would be easier to get.

Jack
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July 20, 2024 7:08 am
Reply to  Jack

If you bring in Stewart he would probably take Keon’s spot. Now you lose some defense but gain in other things like rebounding etc. Brown now has to decide which one to play as to who on the other team is on the floor. With Stewart you do have a more balanced team. And as Monty always wants flexibility.

RikSmits
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July 20, 2024 8:01 am
Reply to  Jack

I seem to remember after the end of last season, everybody was agreeing that our main needs were length, athleticism, physicality and rim protection and that we have to address the roster imbalance (too may guards, too few PF’s C’s). We were talking about guys like Portis, Collins, Jalen Smith and Brook Lopez, and in the draft we were focusing on big guys like Holmes and Ware etc.

We haven’t addressed any of those needs, but now we seem to be saying that our main need was another closer who can create his own shot? Is that wishful thinking?

I really like DeRozan, and just looking at him through the lense of replacing Barnes, it is a clear upgrade, But there’s more to it than that, as we have not addressed the area’s of need at all, and the roster imbalance is as bad as it was at the end of the season.

Yes, there is still time, and Monte can still adress those needs, but options are dwindling.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 20, 2024 4:19 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

We definitely still need a power forward. There is log jam at the two spot. If needed put Ellis in a deal to get a true 4. We still have a few guards left and fill a gaping hole next to number 11.

murraytant
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July 21, 2024 9:59 pm

Ellis has such a good -value contract ad a unique skill- keep him

Jack
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July 22, 2024 6:54 am
Reply to  murraytant

Hey. We both agree. How about that.

murraytant
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July 22, 2024 12:36 pm
Reply to  Jack

There is reason for hope

NorCalKingsFan
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July 20, 2024 6:10 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Yes, they still need to do more in acquiring the rare and valuable player archetype that we need but every team in the league wants players on the front line that provide “length, athleticism, physicality and rim protection”, they can be hard to find.

  • The Kings have added D. Carter who provides all of those things at the wing position plus he can handle some PG duties if needed.
  • They made a legitimate offer to the Jazz for Lauri and they made a run for Ingram, the type of players that do some of the things above while also bringing more talent to the team. The Kings didn’t close the trades because it appears the asking prices were too high (I support that decision if that is the case).
  • They still improved one of the F positions in the short-term by bringing in DDR. While it didn’t solve the existing problems it did improve the overall talent.

It’s definitely frustrating that they haven’t fixed the known deficiencies and unbalanced nature of the roster, but I do think the team got better and they’ve done so using minimal assets. I’m not thrilled but personally, I’m happy enough for now.

RikSmits
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July 21, 2024 6:45 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I applaud you for your optimism. I can’t share it yet and I don’t agree with most of your points.

every team in the league wants players on the front line that provide “length, athleticism, physicality and rim protection”, they can be hard to find.

If it was easy, every team would be a true contender. That’s why they pay Monte the big bucks.

D. Carter who provides all of those things at the wing position 

I like Carter, but fore the time being he will provide absolutely nothing, and it is hard to really see what he will become before having played a single NBA minute. But whatever he will be, it will be hard to envision him as a rim protector.

They made a legitimate offer to the Jazz for Lauri 

comment image
This is a result-based league.

They still improved one of the F positions in the short-term by bringing in DDR. While it didn’t solve the existing problems it did improve the overall talent.

That was basically my point, but with the emphasis on the lack of solving the existing problems.

I hope that DDR actually helps Brown to find away to work around these problems because he isn’t really fixing any of them. And I have my doubts about his defense, especially if Brown sticks with the switch-happy approach.

Last edited 10 months ago by RikSmits
Jack
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July 22, 2024 9:58 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

You say Carter provides all those things. He can’t. He is only 6’2″ and canit bang with the big boys. Has to be a big PF who rebounds, protects the rim and can stretch the floor.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 22, 2024 12:45 pm
Reply to  Jack

I didn’t really mean that Carter would provide actual “rim-protection”, more that despite being 6’2″, he has a 6’8″ wingspan and has a good block-rate at his position (2.8%, which compared to positional averages in the NBA:PG=1.0/SG=1.0/SF=1.3/PF=2.2/C=3.9).

Carter provides the team with length (89th percentile in steal rate and 77th percentile in block rate), athleticism (tied for first at NBA combine with a 42-in max vert and set a combine record with a 2.87-sec 3/4 court sprint), and physicality (number one in the Big East in defensive rebounding percentage despite being a guard).

My point was that the front office is in fact looking to improve those attributes at every position. Finding a player who has skills that the team needs more of inside a high IQ player with a great motor is not something to dismiss. I was using the drafting of Carter and the rumored discussions in trading for BI and LM as an example that the Front Office is at least looking to address the team’s known weaknesses. Just because the team still has clear weaknesses doesn’t mean that they’ve failed to improve.

They still need a PF/C who can protect the rim, rebound, and adequately space the floor but I don’t fault the team for not making a move yet since there is still a lot of time left in the offseason.

I think we both agree that the front office hasn’t done enough to put this team in a position to compete for a Championship, but I do believe they improved the team over last year’s squad and didn’t spend a lot to do it.

Jack
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July 22, 2024 3:31 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I agree. IMO Carter was the right pick in the draft. I believe he will after his return will really help the Kings in a lot of areas.

murraytant
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July 21, 2024 9:59 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

I agree. DD was an odd choice/option but a good one. The other needs remain and are still unaddressed.

BuiltToSpill
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July 20, 2024 12:20 pm

They answered my non-Keon questions as part of this article, in case you missed that. Like everyone else, I want to know how the Kings can obtain the length and athleticism at PF and backup C that is desperately needed.

My question here is fairly broad based, to be honest. I’m looking for links to tools where people can analyze net rating when two or more players are together on the floor. Do you have an answer for that or did you just want to gaslight me by acting like Keon is the only thing I talk about?

Jman1949
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July 20, 2024 1:55 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

The NBA.com stats site has a “Lineup” tool that can give you what you’re looking for. You still have to do a lot of filtering and sorting for specific combinations. Here’s a link to the Kings two-man lineup stats for last season:

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/traditional?slug=traditional&SeasonType=Regular+Season&TeamID=1610612758&GroupQuantity=2

NorCalKingsFan
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July 20, 2024 6:28 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

What is interesting to me was then when you filter for +/-, the majority of the negative +/- lineups (min of 20 gms) included one of Edwards, Duarte, Mitchell, Vezenkov, and/or Barnes.

Looking at it further, the only 2 two-man lineups that were negative and include two players that will still be on the team next year were Domas and C. Jones at -0.8 (12 gms) and Domas and Monk at -0.7 (71 gms). Every other combination on the negative side included a player that is no longer on the team.

Jack
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July 22, 2024 3:34 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

you also can do a comparison chart on 2 players.Some sites will even give their opinion on who should start.

BuiltToSpill
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July 22, 2024 4:50 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

Thanks for this, J!

Fox and Ellis had a +/- of +1.3 across 40 games / 13.3 mpg.

Fox and Monk had a +/- of +0.4 across 63 games / 17.2 mpg.

When the lineup is Sabonis, Barnes, Murray, and Fox, the +/- is 0 when you insert Ellis in the lineup (24 games / 10.9 mpg) and also 0 when Monk is in the lineup (36 games / 4.2 mpg).

When you look at the 5 player lineups, it seems to be a wash but when you simply compare Fox with Ellis vs. Monk, there does seem to be a stronger combo with Fox / Ellis. I’ll be watching these numbers this season.

Maximus
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July 20, 2024 6:25 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

NBA.com stats is incredibly useful.

Cleaningtheglass.com is even more focused on lineup advanced stats but you will need a subscription
https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/lineups#tab-four_factors

murraytant
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July 21, 2024 9:57 pm

Rim protection
Back up big – one with some athleticism i.e. anti-Len
size on the wing for D

ajonez81
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July 19, 2024 11:18 pm

Nice job guys, real Kings fans live in Sac just FYI. Well I live in Placerville area because I don’t like big cities anymore, so I guess I’m guilty too. Kinda curious what Monk as a starter would produce though even though no one else wants that. He’s our 4th or 5th best player and will close most games so why not try to jump out to an early lead? Kings seem to struggle with starts. I feel bad for the guy he seems to want to start. Keon is nice but I think it’s a stretch to say we need him as a starter or he has the talent at this point. The added defense was nice but the team did not win as many games with him at the end. Bottom line, give Monk more minutes and let him cook. We really need another good 3 and D wing. Go Kings!

Jack
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July 20, 2024 7:11 am
Reply to  ajonez81

Last year in Keon’s first 8 games when inserted as a starter we won all 8. Not to shabby.

MidtownMike
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July 20, 2024 2:33 pm
Reply to  Jack

Might have been 10, either way yeah weird take lol

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 20, 2024 4:15 pm
Reply to  ajonez81

Monk on paper is the starter but his sixth man abilities are solid. Heurter or Monk should definitely get the nod to start. Put points on the board to win. Bring Ellis off the bench for defense.

MidtownMike
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July 21, 2024 6:11 pm

It’s better to bring offense off the bench, easier to feel the difference

Jack
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July 22, 2024 7:13 am

Start Ellis for his defense.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 20, 2024 5:27 pm
Reply to  ajonez81

Ellis in the starting lineup allows Fox to avoid having to defend an opposing team’s best G. Murray and Ellis each do a good job making it difficult on the opposing team’s two best offensive players. Then with Fox, you have 3 plus defenders against the opposing team’s starting lineup to set the tone of the game.

Monk will get a good portion of the G mins and should be closing games (with Ellis being subbed in & out as needed between timeouts). If he starts, the rotation would require either he or Fox come out before they’re even warmed-up. If he doesn’t start, he can come in for Fox or Ellis and play a healthy amount of consecutive minutes.

If only talent were considered, Monk would start…but for a balanced-team-rotation that gets the most out of the Kings best players, Ellis should start and Monk is first off the bench.

murraytant
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July 21, 2024 10:02 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

yes

TheGrantNapear
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July 20, 2024 7:44 am

The biggest reason Ellis should start is how well the D played the final third or so of the season once he was starting.
Fox can be a plus defender.
Keon is a good defender.
DDR is capable of being an avg defender.
KM can be a plus defender.
Domas bless his heart tries, but as a 5 he’s a negative on D.
Overall, there’s potential for this starting five to be above average on D.

Jack
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July 20, 2024 10:14 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

IMO we need both a PF and backup center. Len does a great job in short periods but if Sabonis gets injured(heaven forbid) or needs rest more we need a backup for him. Also when Sabonis leaves the paint to defend ( he does this a lot) we only have Murray to protect the paint. IMO he is good a doing this but we need someone to come in and cover for him when he needs rest or if again he gets injured. Monty has options but starting to dwindle if you want to keep Huerter on the roster. Isaiah Steward and Tari Eason come to mind. Eason is the better PF but Stewart can play both PF and center. Using Lyles, McDaniels and Colby as an example you should be able to get Stewart(money works) with a second or 2 and not give up Huerter. Usuing those 3 as trades you could maybe get Eason and Tate(money works) without over spending. Need a second or 2.

ForKingsandCountry
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July 21, 2024 10:45 pm
Reply to  Jack

Why would the Pistons or Rockets want to give up either of those players for underwhelming trade packages? I think that’s wishful thinking. John Collins seems much more gettable but good luck dealing with Danny Ainge.

Jack
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July 22, 2024 7:17 am

Then you have to give up Huerter and probably Lyles. Are you willing to do this? I would. FYM the Pistons have too many bigs. They would be willing IMO to trade Stewaty.

BestHyperboleEver
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July 20, 2024 11:29 am

With the caveat that I definitely wasn’t able to pay as much attention to each prospect as I have in the past, I think this draft class really is THAT bad. Not because of their performance in SL. Just based on pre-draft profiles and performance. The best college players are HUGE question marks about how their games will transfer to the NBA while the young player are all “potential” with very little product. There will probably be a guy or two that pops up, and there will be a handful of useful rotation players, because there always are, but aside from the advantage of a broader, more developed international game, I don’t see much reason to believe this draft is clearly better than some of the weaker classes in recent memory. Something like 2006 seems about right. Not THE WORST since the turn of the century, but among them.

MidtownMike
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July 20, 2024 1:41 pm

Think they sat Adonis Arms from summer league because they want to change one of the two way contracts to him?

Jman1949
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July 20, 2024 1:48 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

Looks like Arms chose to leave the team…

Sean Cunningham: Keon Ellis in street clothes for this afternoon’s Summer League game vs. Wizards. His summer duties have concluded. Adonis Arms has also left the squad. pic.twitter.com/guDt0rtQjI 2 days ago – via Twitter SeanCunningham

MidtownMike
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July 20, 2024 2:34 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

Bummer

NorCalKingsFan
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July 20, 2024 5:13 pm
Reply to  Jman1949

the rumor is that he is getting a two-way from another team

murraytant
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July 21, 2024 10:04 pm
Reply to  MidtownMike

doubtful

rockbottom
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July 20, 2024 3:54 pm

Feel Kings like many teams missed on ke’lel Ware . Was much better in Summer League than Clingan or Sarr . Heat hits again as Ware seems a Mavs Lively but better shooter .

SmallBallReject
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July 22, 2024 4:34 am
Reply to  rockbottom

Yeah, I was “hoping” the Kings would select Ware: I thought positional fit with upside. I was halfway consoled when Carter “fell” to us (the knife?), but now that Carter will be out for (at least) six months, and we acquired another G/F in Derozan and cannot seem to acquire an improvement at PF/ backup C *and* Ware is delivering in SL, I am downright disappointed!

Jack
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July 22, 2024 7:18 am

IMO I would take Carter over Ware.

TheGrantNapear
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July 22, 2024 8:56 am
Reply to  rockbottom

I would have taken Ware over DC. Obviously DC has a higher floor and Ware is a boom or bust pick, but that’s the type of pick we needed to try and fill the whole at the 4. Odds are DC ends up being the better player, but you have to take risks sometimes on players like Ware.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 20, 2024 5:11 pm

After watching all the SL games, I think:

  • Mason Jones should be converted to a full contract, he’s a legit NBA player.
  • I would sign Boogie Ellis to the open two-way contract.
  • I. Jones will get a chance to see the court this year, he plays within himself and has a nice skillset including rim-protection from the 4 spot.
  • I would attempt to sign Drew Timme, Xavier Sneed, and Antoine Davis (and maybe even Jo Lual-Acuil) to the Stockton Kings for further development.
BuiltToSpill
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July 21, 2024 10:55 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I think I’m buying into Mason Jones, too. Most of this SL, I’ve thought he looked better than Colby – not to dump on Colby because I think he can be an NBA player.

I agree on Boogie if a two way opens up, we need to use it on him. I don’t see Isaac Jones contributing much this year but he and Crawford showed some potential.

murraytant
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July 21, 2024 10:08 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Honestly and I mean this with respect- there were some good players in SL- if we just look away from the Kings for awhile ( they barely won half their games), we can see that I. Jones and Crawford were ok with some potential. M. Jones limited, C. Jones a disappointment and Boogie Ellis good enough to replace M. Jones as a 2 way. But some of the players on other teams stood out as well, like Brawny ( LOL)

Hamlet1989
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July 22, 2024 5:36 am

The writers should ask the questions and let the commenters come up with answers.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 22, 2024 9:50 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

I like this idea

Hamlet1989
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July 22, 2024 6:14 am

I really felt like this team needs another long forward to compete at an elite level. Then I looked, and realized Boston has two forward-sized wings. Tatum plays Forward, Brown, and the others are over-sized, physical guards, Brisset and Svi never saw the floor. Sam Hauser is Kevin Huerter, you can call him a forward so long as you only need him on one end of the floor. That’s it! Unless you call Horford a wing. They pretty much have a lot of Devin Carters, and that’s how they won it. Porzingis is really just extra ammo on the nights when he actually plays.

TheGrantNapear
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July 22, 2024 8:54 am
Reply to  Hamlet1989

Kings don’t have the athletic big wings that the C’s have. In addition, KM and Domas at the 4/5 provide no athleticism or rim protection…which is why we still need an athletic 4 with length.

Jack
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July 22, 2024 10:09 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

You are absolutely right. The big doesn’t have to start but ready to come in if the situations dictates. If we need defense especially on the front line then Keon is the answer. If we need a PF to come in to rebound, protect the rim etc. then he would be available.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 11:32 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I agree. It is apparent that the masses have once again accepted that this hole in the roster does not matter and the team will succeed despite this. Many do not like Vivek. He has clearly succeeded at marketing.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 22, 2024 12:51 pm

What? Where are you getting this?

It is apparent that the masses have once again accepted that this hole in the roster does not matter and the team will succeed despite this.

Just because not every fan is upset that the PF hole in the roster hasn’t been filled yet doesn’t mean that that those same people don’t want it filled.

BuiltToSpill
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July 22, 2024 1:12 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Right? Virtually everyone commenting here is keenly aware of our PF needs but Marvin acts like they’re the only one who sees it.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 1:14 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

For the majority of two decades this team has been incomplete and the masses have not left. He has a great marketing department.

BuiltToSpill
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July 22, 2024 1:30 pm

“the masses have not left”.

Yet here you are, too. God, the nerve you have to just dismiss everyone as “the masses”, Marvin.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 22, 2024 6:40 pm

Maybe, but he’s only owned the team for one decade (11yrs); there’s no reason to put the prior owner’s/regime’s poor decision making on Vivek, he’s made plenty of his own mistakes (mostly early on and very few since he hired McNair).

IMO, Vivek is not one of the Kings top problems. He could easily slide into that category should he refuse to pay into the lux tax to get better, but as of right now I haven’t seen any evidence that is the case.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 6:46 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I actually like Vivek. He is definitely good at marketing, Simple as that. The mass audience has never left this team despite the below average basketball until recently.

If he wants to win he will pay the tax. In the meantime the playoffs are looking like a possibility. He gets my family’s money every year and we enjoy the NBA.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 22, 2024 10:46 pm

The Sacramento Kings have had the community’s undying support before Vivek even became rich.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 23, 2024 9:44 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Must hate Vivek. No other options. Rich man bad. Cheer for Kings but hate on owner.

RikSmits
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July 22, 2024 12:09 pm
Reply to  Hamlet1989

There’s squinting, and there’s squeezing your eyes shut and seeing stars.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 12:55 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Porzingis worked out pretty well for Boston. The Kings could really benefit from a player like that.

BuiltToSpill
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July 22, 2024 1:08 pm

When a 7’2″ 20 pt, 8 rb player comes available, we should just pick them up. Easy peasy.

NorCalKingsFan
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July 22, 2024 6:42 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

Kings call dibs on next Porzingis!

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 7:08 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I guess getting a player like Porzingis is a negative for some?

I would love to have him or a player like him in a Kings uniform.

Maximus
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July 22, 2024 7:24 pm

The question is what do you give up to get him. Zinger is an All-Star level center. Whom would you trade to get him? Murray or Sabonis?

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 7:36 pm
Reply to  Maximus

Was never talking about it as a trade scenario. I simply think having a player like Porzingis or Porzingis here would be awesome. He didn’t spend his entire career in Boston. It is possible.

Given your question I definitely give Murray up for him but he would not be enough.

Maximus
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July 22, 2024 7:53 pm

He didn’t spend his entire career in Boston. It is possible.

Not at all. He was never a free agent. He would have to be traded.

It is very hard to get All-Star level talents to come here as free agents. Heck even trading for one is tough. Our best bet is to hope that our own players develop into highly impact players.

So, how about rooting for Keon Ellis and Keegan Murray to make a leap this year?

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 9:20 pm
Reply to  Maximus

He was traded.

I root for them all the time.

How about root for Vivek and Monte building a contender?

Hope as one’s best bet is sad.

Last edited 10 months ago by Sara Janelle Trampe
Maximus
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July 22, 2024 10:20 pm

Hope as one’s best bet is sad.

Not at all. Hoping is still rooted in reality. On the other hand, dreaming is completely off the rail.

Maximus
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July 22, 2024 10:45 pm
Reply to  Maximus

Monte and Vivek need a plan just like all of the other contenders have a plan and a process. All star players should be part of the plan

Two winning years. Two All-NBA caliber players. That’s pretty much on par with some contenders out there. Is there anything that suggests they won’t be on the same course in the next few years?

My dream is to see the Kings be a contender again

You don’t have to dream about this. There is a realistic chance this could happen. The biggest factor is Mike Brown and his coaching staff. Monte delivered a talented roster. Now Mike Brown needs to find the right systems to mesh all these talents.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 23, 2024 9:40 am
Reply to  Maximus

Wanting good things and strategically aiming for good things must be evil. Boston and many other teams are good with it. Do not see their fans worried about it either.

TheGrantNapear
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July 22, 2024 9:03 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

It didn’t cost the C’s that much to trade for KP (see below). KP at the time was regarded as an empty stats oft injured player.
Monte just doesn’t seem to value or recognize the need for athletic, talented bigs. That’s how you consistently end up with Len, Lyles and whoever else has been put beside and behind Sabonis.
IMO, overlooking this major need is simply bizarre and getting old.

Celtics receive: 

  • Kristaps Porzingis (via Wizards)
  • No. 25 pick in 2023 Draft (via Grizzlies)
  • 2024 first-round pick (top-four protected, via Warriors)

Grizzlies receive:

  • Marcus Smart (via Celtics)

Wizards receive: 

  • Tyus Jones (via Grizzlies)
  • Danilo Gallinari (via Celtics)
  • Mike Muscala (via Celtics)
  • No. 35 pick in 2023 Draft (via Celtics)
Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 9:16 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Porzingis or a player like Prozingis is possible and is pretty amazing as well. We can have nice things.

Was it the Mavericks that gave up on him before he was sent to die in DC?

Last edited 10 months ago by Sara Janelle Trampe
BuiltToSpill
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July 22, 2024 9:26 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

There’s a lot of validity to that perception of him. He’s only played 60 games in 3 of his 9 seasons and only hit 70 in his rookie season. He only suited up for 7 of 19 Celtics playoff games this year. The Celtics really didn’t need him to win it all. They’re stacked from top to bottom.

To go get a guy like Porzingis, you need tradeable assets. I would argue that Monte continues to bring in talent on reasonable contracts. Down the road, he has a lot of pieces to make necessary moves. He’s already moved Haliburton for Domas and now Barnes for DeRozan. Even Demar’s contract is solid value.

He’s sitting on an incredibly moveable contract in Monk and he’s shown he’s not afraid to make bold moves. Yeah, I get that we all want an athletic PF. In the absence of available players that fit his criteria, I’m very happy that he’s put himself in position to pounce when ready.

I guess my patience makes me one of the stupid “masses” in Marvin’s book.

Last edited 10 months ago by BuiltToSpill
Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 10:44 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

Masses as in the large number of Kings fans, which is a good thing. Nobody said Kings fans or you are stupid.

Respect your opinions and thoughts.

TheGrantNapear
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July 23, 2024 11:00 am
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

To go get a guy like Porzingis, you need tradeable assets.

Well who’s fault is it that we don’t have tradeable assets to make significant moves? There’s a reason we have struck out on a lot of trades and it’s because we don’t have the assets to offer what other teams do. That’s how you end up settling for a 35 year old wing and give up a potentially juicy unprotected swap seven years hence.

MM has been GM for around four years now and hasn’t addressed the glaring need of athleticism at the 4. He’s being awfully patient.

BuiltToSpill
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July 23, 2024 1:43 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I would argue that PF was only one of many needs when McNair took over. The most glaring needs at the time, to me, were:

  • A lack of top line talent (Fox, Hield, Bogdan, Barnes, Bagley, Holmes, and Bjelica were the main contributors the year before his arrival)
  • No true center
  • Abysmal team defense. Truly abysmal. Look upon the seven main contributors above!
  • Even worse than the team defense was the coaching carousel. Corbin, Karl, Joerger, Walton, Gentry
  • A significant lack of trade pieces

Would you add others? In my opinion, he addressed every single one of those, with a need for a PF still waiting to be addressed.

  • Top line talent – kept Fox, added Haliburton, then Domas, Keegan, Monk, DDR
  • No true center – Domas
  • Team defense – still a work in progress but we all saw the improvement, particularly once Ellis got significant minutes
  • Coaching carousel – Brown
  • Lack of trade pieces – right now, I don’t see a single untradeable player. In fact, even players like Huerter are, at worst, neutral assets.

I totally agree that there’s still a hole at PF. I don’t think for a minute that he isn’t looking to address the issue. It’s cool with me if you measure MM as a failure. But I don’t see it that way at all and my patience with him stems from observing his methodical, deliberate approach to taking the opportunities in front of him

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 23, 2024 2:04 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

As you describe, Monte has definitely improved this team. Nobody has labeled him as a failure.

Last edited 10 months ago by Sara Janelle Trampe
Klam
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July 22, 2024 1:00 pm

Sasha getting waived by Raptors.

https://x.com/BlakeMurphyODC/status/1815464193589735922

Also…

Vezenkov is leaving the entire $6,658,536 on the table in the buyout, per a source. The Raptors pay $0. He has no cap hit any longer.

Last edited 10 months ago by Klam
Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
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July 22, 2024 1:28 pm
Reply to  Klam

Damn he wanted out of the NBA really badly.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 1:59 pm
Reply to  Klam

Everyone said he couldn’t simply leave.

Adamsite
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July 22, 2024 2:18 pm
Reply to  Klam

So why exactly did the Kings trade him along with Mitchell and a 2nd roundif was going to leave all that money on the table?

That means the Kings basically traded Mitchell and a 2nd round pick for McDaniels which saved the Kings a whopping….$2M.

Hippity_Hop_Barbershop
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July 22, 2024 2:35 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I’m guessing it had something to do with needing to get DDR and maybe Sasha sticking it to us a bit.

Adamsite
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July 22, 2024 3:21 pm

I’m not sure how it would have effected the DeRozan deal since the Sasha trade was nearly 2 weeps prior. Maybe there were other deals Monte was working on that needed to clear space immediately for, but they never fully materialized?

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July 23, 2024 7:15 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Cap space and knowing Sasha wanted out but couldn’t let him out of a deal like the Raps could?

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 2:44 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

If you do the math it does not look good. I think Monte was moving a player knowing he was not going to play on this team next year. He probably did not know he would walk away entirely.

Adamsite
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July 22, 2024 3:17 pm

But there was talk that Sasha wanted to go back to Europe long before the trade. It hasn’t even been a month since the trade and if Monte didn’t know what Sasha’s intentions were, but everyone else here heard about it, then something is off.

andy_sims
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July 22, 2024 4:41 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 22, 2024 5:39 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I honestly don’t think Sasha ever wanted to play in the US. He refused to come over for college and multiple refusals for the NBA. Something soured and Monte knew he could at least dump around $2MM.

Too bad Sasha wasn’t up front about it with the Kings. At least Sasha is happy and the experience didn’t turn into a soap opera.

Last edited 10 months ago by Sara Janelle Trampe
RikSmits
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July 22, 2024 9:58 pm

Or he came over based on stories of playing time etc. and then found out that they weren’t up front about it?

And maybe he had already decided to forego his salary but Monte wasn’t communicating with him and missed the opportunity?

I know it’s more convenient to accuse the guy who left than our celebrated GM but the truth probably lies somewhere in between.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 23, 2024 8:11 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Yes, very true. So far our GM is average. Not at all celebrated.

BuiltToSpill
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July 23, 2024 10:08 am

I suppose if you ignore his being NBA’s Executive of the Year in 2022-23, he’s totally not celebrated at all.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 23, 2024 10:18 am
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

I prefer to see playoff wins and a championship contender. Big leap from the previous GM though.

murraytant
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July 22, 2024 5:36 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Kings did not expect Carter to drop to 13. When he did, since they had him in their top 10 easy, even injured, they nixed a couple of trades (to Washington for Kuzma I suspect) and went with what they saw as a top player in a bad draft. And a player on a controlled contract. This left Davion redundant and sine he only could dribble cross court they gave up 2 second rounders to get rid of him, AND Sasha who had to be included in order to get enough money to explore DDR. Did they know he was going to bail? No but knew he considered it. For the Raptors to facilitate a retirement was easy. For the Kings it would look like failure.
Could they have kept him, had him do that here and saved his money? Maybe but it would have taken time.
It all worked out: Carter for Davion and Sasha and his disgruntlement gone. Lost 2 second rounders who may have value but got McDaniel’s who I think is headed out of town on Aug 27.
Ke’el Ware instead of Carter? maybe but if Carter is truly special, take the best guy. regardless of position.
I like the potential of Boogie Ellis. I wish C. Jones had shown out better. I would switch M. Jones for B. Ellis in 2 way and either switch out M. Jones (trade C, Jones along with Lyles or Huerter or McDaniel’s (of course) for length at 3/4, back up 5 or a lob threat.
There is no pick next year. of the free agents, who could have helped? DJJ, N. Marshal, .. who?
and how much is left of the midlevel?
the trade saved more than 2 M because at that time, Sasha was still taking up cap space

Jack
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July 22, 2024 7:10 pm
Reply to  murraytant

I really like Carter. I was very disappointed in Colby Jones. IMO the Kings have given him enough time to show something. He along with Lyles and McDaniels should be enough to get a backup PF/C. Someone along the lines of Stewart or Eason. The rest like Collins Cam Johnson etc. would take Huerter also. Don’t know if I would do that.

Maximus
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July 22, 2024 7:38 pm
Reply to  Jack

You would need to include a 1st round pick for either Stewart or Easson. I don’t think Monte likes that, especially for unproven talents.

John Collins makes way too much money. And he is just slightly better than Trey. No thanks.

The Magic has 4 quality bigs (Isaac, WCJ, Wagner and Bitadze). One could be available by deadline.

Jack
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July 23, 2024 7:03 am
Reply to  Maximus

First Collins is a lot better than Lyles. Compare rebounds which we need at around 9 per game. Knows how to protect the wealside rim. Of the 4 above IMO only WCJ would I consider. Like Issac but gets injured too much. Monty hasn’t used a first this year. IMO if and I say if it would cost one to get either Eason or Stewart I would consider it.

Hobby916
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July 23, 2024 5:43 am
Reply to  Jack

192 total NBA minutes is enough time for Colby to show he can play? Okie dokie.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 23, 2024 9:33 am
Reply to  Hobby916

I see a whole bunch of guards on this team. Colby Jones is not something this team needs to focus on.

Hobby916
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July 23, 2024 10:00 am

The comment I made was about him having enough time to see if he is a player or not, not whether he needs to be on the roster.

He can get traded, and that would be fine with me.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 23, 2024 10:03 am
Reply to  Hobby916

I see. I like to see the time and effort spent with the players that will be the impact players. Colby is not that in my opinion. Time to move on and give another guy a chance.

Last edited 10 months ago by Sara Janelle Trampe
Hobby916
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July 23, 2024 12:09 pm

Was Ellis an “impact player” during his 1st season with the Kings?

The team has like 47 coaches, I am sure there is enough time for Colby to keep working on skill development.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 23, 2024 12:43 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Ellis did very well. I don’t think Ellis and Jones are comparable players. I do not see the value in coaches using time to develop a player that is likely not going to contribute. I think they need to move on from Colby. He is borderline NBA caliber and plays a position that is not a need on this team. I think the team should dedicate the time and resources to a player that fills a need for this team.

Colby Jones can and should go play elsewhere in my opinion. I appreciate your opinion.

BuiltToSpill
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July 23, 2024 1:51 pm

Player A rookie season per 36: 12.2 pts, 4.1 rbs, 3.0 ast, 3.5 stl, 0.5 blk, 0.5 to

Player B rookie season per 36: 12.0 pts, 7.5 rbs, 3.7 ast, 1.3 stl, 0.9 blk, 1.9 to

Is there a clear impact player between these? Which one and why?

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 23, 2024 1:59 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

C

This discussion is about Colby Jones. I think he is more useful elsewhere. Hobby 916 thinks he deserves more opportunity here. I see his perspective and respect that.

How do you feel about this?

BuiltToSpill
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July 23, 2024 2:06 pm

Ellis did very well. I don’t think Ellis and Jones are comparable players.

Answer the question. You don’t even have to say which player. Is there a clear winner? After all, you’re saying they aren’t comparable.

Obviously, one of the two players is Colby Jones and the other is Keon. They look pretty damn comparable to me.

Last edited 10 months ago by BuiltToSpill
Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 23, 2024 2:11 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

I answered the question.

Moving on to more relevant and worthwhile discussion.

Do you think Colby Jones should be given more opportunity?

Who on this team should give up minutes for him to play in the NBA?

BuiltToSpill
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July 23, 2024 2:15 pm

I’m not dignifying your questions if you won’t dignify mine.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 23, 2024 2:26 pm
Reply to  BuiltToSpill

Based on the stats you provided do you think Colby Jones should take minutes from someone else on this team?

I answered. I don’t think he is a viable option for this team because he is not good enough to take minutes from the glut of guards already here.

You may not agree and I respect that.

Last edited 10 months ago by Sara Janelle Trampe
Hobby916
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July 24, 2024 5:19 am

He doesn’t even necessarily need minutes on the Kings, just by practicing with them and the coaches he should develop his skills. If he doesn’t do it in practice, then they have their answer.

I just don’t see the issue with keeping the guy around. If a team wants him included in a deal to make a roster upgrade, then include him.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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July 24, 2024 6:50 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Keeping the guy around takes up space on the roster. Fill the two way deals and the G league with athletic power forwards. A sub par power forward could actually do something here unfortunately. A sub par guard is a little redundant here.

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