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Are there reasons for optimism in Sacramento heading into an ultra-important offseason for the Kings? | TKHS Episode 17

Charles Barkley believes the Kings are doomed. Is he correct?

The Kings Herald Show returns without any Sacramento Kings basketball to talk about, but Jerry Reynolds, Will Griffith, and Tony Xypteras are here to discuss some recent comments from Charles Barkley, fake Kristaps Porzingis trades, Marvin Bagley's offseason plans, the NBA's coaching carousel, the NBA playoffs, and more!

Timestamps
  • (1:40) Is there any reason to be optimistic about the future of the Sacramento Kings, despite what Charles Barkley says?
  • (6:10) Is current Kings management good enough to turn this franchise around?
  • (12:50) Should the Kings pursue an often-speculated Kristaps Porzingis trade?
  • (19:35) Marvin Bagley’s offseason plans.
  • (26:26) The NBA’s coaching carousel
  • (100:00) NBA Playoff talk

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TheGrantNapear
June 15, 2021 9:04 am

We are doomed.
The last decade and a half speaks for itself.
Vivek is still in charge.
Compared to the other bad teams in the West, we have the weakest roster and draft capital moving forward.
For a bad team, we’re oddly capped out.

So yes, we are doomed. The only way we are not doomed is if both Fox and Hali become stars with at least one of them reaching superstar status or if we win the draft lottery this year. Neither of these scenarios seems likely.

TerzoM
June 15, 2021 9:12 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I think Fox/Hali 3 or 4 prime years from now, best case 6th seed eliminated first round. That is the shaka ceiling. Keeps the “fanbase” going and makes Vivek richer.

Last edited 1 month ago by TerzoM
Otis
June 15, 2021 9:22 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Nah, we aren’t doomed. Just need competent people making decisions.

And the draft capital seems fine, no? We have all our future first currently, as well as some additional seconds.

TheGrantNapear
June 15, 2021 10:52 am
Reply to  Otis

My bad, I should’ve explained I mean our draft capital compared to the other bottom dwellers in the West (NOP, OKC). Basically, they have the upper hand in trading for a star given all the draft cap they’ve accumulated.

Otis
June 15, 2021 11:39 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

True, OKC specifically – scroll down this page to NOP and OKC, then see how sore your scrolling finger gets to get past them:

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

WizsSox
June 15, 2021 2:20 pm
Reply to  Otis

Agreed. Suns were doomed with Sarver, until they suddenly weren’t. For Chirst sakes that guy has sold mult first round draft picks. Knicks were doomed with Dolan until this year. Suddenly looking rosier.

Are bad owners a hinderance to the process? Absolutely. Doesn’t mean a blind squirrel can’t find a nut with the right GM and coach combo. Maybe we are halfway there with Monte? Who knows.

RikSmits
June 16, 2021 9:27 am
Reply to  Otis

Just need competent people making decisions.

How do you say we’re doomed without saying that we’re doomed?

TerzoM
June 15, 2021 9:08 am

As long as this dude is here, we are fuckedcomment image

RobHessing
June 15, 2021 9:21 am
Reply to  TerzoM

Blather. Rinse. Repeat.

RAP87
June 15, 2021 9:56 am
Reply to  TerzoM

and Matina

TheGrantNapear
June 15, 2021 10:52 am
Reply to  RAP87

And Luke

BeTheBall
June 15, 2021 3:41 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

and my axe

Amonk81
June 15, 2021 12:56 pm
Reply to  TerzoM

Anyone who downvotes this-the truth, is hiding their head in the sand, a troll, or Vivek.

Vivek has been nothing but terrible.

WizsSox
June 15, 2021 5:09 pm
Reply to  Amonk81

I didn’t downvote it…I think Vivek sucks.

But this is a strange take from someone who is a huge Redskins fan and recently told me about how the fanbase forced Snyder to turn the corner, get a great coach/GM and the Washington football team is on the rise as a result. An owner who was/is consistently ranked as one of the absolute worst in sports.

Don’t see how it’s all that different from this situation…

Amonk81
June 15, 2021 7:28 pm
Reply to  WizsSox

Sorry. Didn’t realize you were down voting Vivek.

And the difference in Snyder-who is still a dick-gave up control of The Washington Football Team to Rivera. I believe, Vivek has not. Seems obvious. Maybe if enough pressure is applied by fans he’ll give over power. I’m dubious.

That’s exactly what happened in Washington, w The Knicks and Suns. All crappy owners who gave up control of hoops to GM etc. Vivek has not.

WizsSox
June 16, 2021 9:36 am
Reply to  Amonk81

Confusion between us : ) No I was literally saying I didn’t down vote the post at all. I just kind of laying out not a Vivek defender really before I posted.

I guess I struggle over the last couple years to know what exactly he has to do to show he is giving control to Basketball Ops people. Early on tons of reporting of meddling (Stauskas?) etc. Seems a bit more thin the last couple years.

He let Vlade draft Bagley when reporting says Vivek wanted Doncic (who knows). Monte says he has power…yes, what else is he going to say? Just feels like we are projecting at times past behaviors over the last couple years of Vivek and his “meddling”. Maybe I am missing something big.

Overall point is that all those teams were in shit situations too and terrible owners and turned it around…at least temporarily. His being here (original GIF), doesn’t mean the franchise is necessarily doomed, but maybe rowing against the tide a bit.

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
SMF-PDXConnection
June 15, 2021 9:25 am

Not to quibble, but at this point, is there even such a thing as an “important” offseason for us?

BestHyperboleEver
June 15, 2021 9:54 am

Agreed. There’s no reason this offseason is any more important than any other.

SMF-PDXConnection
June 15, 2021 10:14 am

Yeah, for us, anyways.

Blazers have an important offseason. So do the Celtics, Knicks, Raptors, etc.

BestHyperboleEver
June 15, 2021 10:20 am

My hope is that Monte is able to take advantage of those situations where teams may be getting a bit desperate or are transitioning. Teams like the Pelicans, Blazers, Raptors, etc. that for one reason or another may be motivated to shake things up.

SMF-PDXConnection
June 15, 2021 10:23 am

I think Monte is definitely capable of pulling something off. I just don’t think it matters as long as Walton is around, though. Pick any two players from the All Defense teams and I don’t think we get out of the bottom five.

Gregoryl
June 15, 2021 10:51 am

Luke will be gone by the AS break.

TheGrantNapear
June 15, 2021 10:54 am
Reply to  Gregoryl

let’s say Lukenis gone by the AS break, problem is the season would likely be lost by then. Another wasted year.

Amonk81
June 15, 2021 12:59 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

It’s already a wasted year most likely. The moment they brought Puke back and didn’t change the squad

andy_sims
June 15, 2021 1:05 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Tell that to the Hawks.

Gregoryl
June 15, 2021 2:35 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

100%

Amonk81
June 15, 2021 12:58 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

Ha. I wish. Luke will probably sign a lifetime contract extension by all star break with Kings in a race for the bottom.

TheGrantNapear
June 15, 2021 10:56 am

BHE, that’s a good point. Our best hope is taking advantage of one of these teams desperate for change.
I think the Pels would be interested in Barnes for vet leadership and he’d fit nicely with Zion. Even Buddy makes sense for floor spacing for Zion to work.

BestHyperboleEver
June 15, 2021 11:02 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Yeah, they badly need floor spacing assuming their plan is based around Ingram and Zion.

I mention elsewhere that I think something like Hield + 39 for Adams + NAW and/or Naji makes sense for both teams.

Carl
June 15, 2021 11:31 am

Adams gives them an out after losing for Holmes for nothing as well.

WizsSox
June 15, 2021 5:12 pm

My take might be that when you haven’t made the playoffs in 15 years, every offseason is more important than the last.

Or if you give up hope then none of them are important at all, because it doesn’t matter what they do….destined to fail. To your and SMF’s point.

Either take can make sense.

Last edited 1 month ago by WizsSox
andy_sims
June 15, 2021 9:35 am

I enjoy Barkley, but my response would be, in comparison to the last fifteen years, what would “doomed” look like?

Including everything short of the team leaving town, what’s left?

andy_sims
June 15, 2021 9:51 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Jerry is king, but his inclination to do a deal to get Porzingis is just out to lunch. If his rationale is that Hield is superfluous, and Bagley is still a question mark, then a trade to get KP would be the “big move” that needs to happen, I vehemently disagree. Porzingis only has value if he’s at least 90% healthy, and with his incredible history of injuries, committing $100 million to him over the next three years is madness.

I’m absolutely wide open to taking a big swing, but for a big who’s lost most of his mobility, and with it, the ability to defend? That ain’t it.

Without getting into asinine territory, assuming that the Kings’ moving parts in a deal could potentially include Hield, Bagley, Barnes, and bench players under contract, what (even remotely) feasible big moves do you like?

Otis
June 15, 2021 9:56 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Yeah, I disagreed with him on that as well. Porzingis isn’t a #1 guy, even when healthy, and it’s clear he doesn’t like being the #2 player in Dallas – even though he ostensibly had the best statistical season (and team success) of his career.

Trading for Porzingis is a recipe for long term sadness here.

andy_sims
June 15, 2021 10:16 am
Reply to  Otis

Continued long-term sadness.

rockbottom
June 15, 2021 1:01 pm
Reply to  Otis

I may have mis heard but I got the impression it involved Medical giving a thumbs up , Dallas adding something and the Kings drafting a guard as well ( due to best player available ). and no other trades for Heild ! No body thinks he is a no.1 guy anymore !

andy_sims
June 15, 2021 1:07 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

I would love to see anything where someone said that Hield was a #1 option on this team, or any other.

rockbottom
June 15, 2021 3:59 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Meant Porzingas ! Seems two over paid and over rated players at this point ! KP was a no. 1 potential , briefly and Buddy
, never !

BestHyperboleEver
June 15, 2021 10:13 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Yeah, for me to pick up the phone on Porzingis he would have to come with A LOT of additional assets. Certainly more than the Mavs have to give. As for other targets, I’d be real interested to see if the price has come down significantly on Siakam due to his injury. I’m not sure if it would quality as a big move, but I think something involving a Hield/Steven Adams swap (I’d love to see if we could get NAW and/or Naji Marshall in the deal) makes sense for both teams. Same with something built around Barnes/Turner. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see the pick used in a trade in some way, either for an Anunoby-level player or in a trade down scenario where they get a moderate prospect and a pick or two (ie. #9 for Kenyon Martin Jr, #19, and maybe another pick.)

andy_sims
June 15, 2021 10:23 am

I do like Siakam, he does a lot of things very well, not the least of which is playing defense. Assuming he’s able to fully recover, he’s only just turned 27, and even though his deal is in Porzingis territory, he’s a hell of a lot more durable. He’d also add considerable toughness, which the Kings need, and KP can’t provide.

BestHyperboleEver
June 15, 2021 10:43 am
Reply to  andy_sims

I’d be really interested to see if, given his injury and contract, Hield + Bagley would get it done. I mean, if they could do something that looks something like:

Hield + Bagley for Siakam
Barnes + 9 for Turner + 13

Then, to take it further into the fantasy worm hole.

13 to HOU for 19 + Martin, Jr.

Take a couple low-cost, decent upside swings on broken wings like Winslow and Otto Porter Jr.

Use #19 on a big wing type like Prkacin?Edwards. Use #34 on a modern big like Todd.

Then you’re walking into the season with a key rotation that looks something like

Fox/Wright
Haliburton/Davis
Porter/Winslow/Martin Jr.
Siakam/Prkacin
Turner/Todd

TheGrantNapear
June 15, 2021 11:00 am

This would be amazing. Not sure how reasonable it is, but I could certainly get behind a core of Fox, Hali, Siakam and Myles. That’s a core that would fit snuggly with one another.

BestHyperboleEver
June 15, 2021 11:03 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I’m sure I’m undervaluing some players in there. But both Siakam and Turner are coming off injuries and both their teams have some questions about how they’ll move forward.

andy_sims
June 15, 2021 11:07 am

With the Hield/Bagley for Siakam deal, I might be willing to throw in #9, if Toronto included an asset, either a decent young player, or a first-rounder in the next few seasons. PS is likely not going to be ready at the start of the season, but if his prognosis over the next couple of months is positive, I could live with it. It’s not as if Walton will know what the hell to do with him, anyway.

The Barnes deal makes sense, and Turner would be a reasonable replacement for Holmes, who I think is probably gone due to limited cap/asking for too much money. I’m hoping a sign & trade scenario will be possible for Holmes.

For a reasonable price, I’d look at Porter and/or Winslow, but wonder if Otto can get back to being even an average starter. With Winslow, I really thought that he was going to become a player in the Marcus Smart mold, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. He doesn’t spread the floor, can’t make free throws, and he doesn’t defend very well. He’s not an improvement over Wright, Davis, or even Mo, so I’d pass.

Your other ideas deal with players I’m not really familiar with, so I’ll have to do some homework, as to not sound ignorant. Which would be a nice change.

Carl
June 15, 2021 11:45 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Agree with all of this as well and particularly that Hield/Bagley would need the #9 to even have a chance.

Porter is still young-ish (younger than Barnes) but it has been a long time since he’s been healthy at this point. I wonder if he’s a guy who will just fade into retirement over the next few seasons. As others have mentioned, worth a swing if you can afford to get nothing from him.

Last edited 1 month ago by Carl
Carl
June 15, 2021 11:35 am

I’d be really interested to see if, given his injury and contract, Hield + Bagley would get it done.

I can’t see a universe where that’s enough. I think you have to put in the Kings first to even have a chance. Hield is a negative asset.

Carl
June 15, 2021 11:33 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Without getting into asinine territory, assuming that the Kings’ moving parts in a deal could potentially include Hield, Bagley, Barnes, and bench players under contract

The Kings first round picks are absolutely in play, and I don’t think it’s asinine to believe that. They’re also fairly valuable given the franchise’s propensity to crash and burn.

Last edited 1 month ago by Carl
andy_sims
June 15, 2021 1:10 pm
Reply to  Carl

You’re right, I should have added the pick as one of the moving parts in the initial post.

BestHyperboleEver
June 15, 2021 1:18 pm
Reply to  Carl

Yeah, a future unprotected King’s first is probably the single most valuable future draft asset in the league.

BasketballHella
June 15, 2021 3:09 pm

Yes times a thousand. But I don’t think we are there yet as far as front office and ownership desperation.

I can totally see it in the next two years when they solidly own the streak at that point.

Then that Kangz trade 3 future firsts and fox for a 40 year old Russell Westbrook on the last year of his deal.

HongKongKingsFan
June 15, 2021 9:46 am

Q.) Is current Kings management good enough to turn this franchise around?

A.) As the FO decided to retain Walton…..so, I would suggest by adding more defensive players may helps………..e.g. Matisse Thybulle and drafting Kuminga…..(At the same times, minusing some players don’t know how to play defense)

Kangz_Landing
June 15, 2021 10:03 am

The only reason for optimism is Fox and Hali.

Other than that, expectations will continue to be low for next season. Why? LUKE WALTON.

A lot of people see the Suns as the model for what the Kings can do, but after their 8-0 bubble, optimism was sky high and they capitalized on it. Booker said they built that culture from the bubble experience and used the CP3 signing to accelerate that progression.

But with the Kings under Walton, we’ve seen multiple 7-1 stretches followed by 9 game losing streaks. Any other fan base of a losing team would be encouraged if their team finished the season playing as well as the Kings played to end the season (against soft competition yes, but team did pass the eye test as well playing hard), but with Walton, hashtag KANGZ culture, and Vivek hope and optimism are out the door. We’re gonna get another season of “are they or aren’t they turning the corner” to ultimately be right back where we started at the end of next season.

Last edited 1 month ago by Kangz_Landing
TheGrantNapear
June 15, 2021 11:01 am
Reply to  Kangz_Landing

CP3 isn’t walking through that door.
This team needs vet leadership, I just don’t see any realistic high end FA that would come here and provide that.

Kangz_Landing
June 15, 2021 2:28 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Don’t necessarily think we need a CP3 level All-Star, because hell no are we getting a surefire Hall of Famer, but there are guys who I actually think can make some sort of difference.

Alot of ppl are mentioning Marcus Smart, ppl loved Derrick Jones before last year and with the year he had, I think he’s a buy low guy rn. Heck Bazemore and Len are gonna be FA agent. Lunch pail guys are out there, and what kinda guys Monte brings in this offseason will show if he’s out of touch with what this team needs or not.

June 15, 2021 10:16 am

Two happy pills, please!

BestHyperboleEver
June 15, 2021 10:17 am

The best reason for optimism is that it’s incredibly statistically unlikely for any team to be this bad for this long. At some point, they’re bound to accidentally stumble into some success.

RobHessing
June 15, 2021 10:42 am

…again…comment image

TheGrantNapear
June 15, 2021 11:03 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Maybe Luka is angry at the Mavs FO and is angling his way for a trade to Sac.
Vivek has already instructed Monte to put together some Luka trade packages.

2263D5B0-E204-4E6E-A444-288E9E09B443.jpeg
andy_sims
June 15, 2021 11:10 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Anyone angling for a trade to the Kings has judgment which cannot be trusted.

SMF-PDXConnection
June 15, 2021 11:36 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Like Groucho Marx said, I refuse to be a part of any club that would have me as a member.

Otis
June 15, 2021 11:36 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Or angling to get drafted by the Kings.

RobHessing
June 15, 2021 12:16 pm
Reply to  Otis

.

8929887F-E464-4BAD-8563-0C9EBBAED23F.jpeg
Amonk81
June 15, 2021 7:35 pm

The Kings stumble into success, kick it out the door and invite failure and ineptitude to come on in and stay awhile.

Gojira2021
June 15, 2021 10:25 am

A resounding “no”, unless we get lucky with the ping pong balls…..

BestHyperboleEver
June 15, 2021 10:52 am
Reply to  Gojira2021

It’s happened 2 of the last 4 drafts we’ve been in. Why not this year too?

RAP87
June 15, 2021 12:56 pm

That’s the problem. I don’t think they’ll get lucky and make it 3 out of the last 5.

My gut says we get unlucky this time and drop down to 10th-12th in the lottery.

eddie41
June 15, 2021 12:25 pm

3 for 100 million is a lot of cash for a guy who continues to injure body parts we never even knew existed. If his defense was better, it might be worth the gamble, but I’m reading some pretty bad things about his defense. I’d rather trade the other way. Instead of trading Buddy’s 60 million contract + an expiring for Porzingis’ 100 million, I’d rather trade it for a 35 million contract plus an expiring.

ajon_es
June 15, 2021 1:30 pm

What are folks thoughts on Myles Turner?
Can we take advantage of their redundancy with Sabonis?

Would something like Bagley, Hield and our 2021 1st <—–> Turner work?

Hield is likely a negative asset with his contract, but Indiana is one of the worst 3% shooting teams. Take 2 fliers with Bags and 2021 first.

Kings do it to replace Holmes. And suddenly we have a very flexible cap situation…

Also on the topic of the Pacers, kinda interested in bring back UFA Jakarr Sampson for another round off the bench.

ajon_es
June 15, 2021 1:30 pm
Reply to  ajon_es

** Assuming 2021 first is top-4 protected **

BasketballHella
June 15, 2021 2:15 pm

I honestly will be optimistic when Vivek finally gets blasted by active players. The slow leak of meddling and his past front and center attitude got him some mild media embarrassment. We have since seen him turtle and I for one thought that was a good thing at first. But it’s only proved to be false hope and in my opinion worse because now it’s like unraveling a really bad conspiracy theory. Was it Matina in the library with a candlestick?

What we all know is that it takes a talent to be this bad for this long. I mean that sincerely. You have to try to constantly prove the basketball world wrong over and over and over and never listen or actually examine your results to accomplish this.

The reason why I have ZERO hope for the future is that the real guy making the decisions made billions on analytical evaluations of himself and those around him to build an empire, that’s not luck. But with his toy he’s abandoned all of that and feels that his non athletic gut is enough to get by.

We will all see one day because that’s the thing about what us fans don’t understand. That or when we finally make that 10th seed because the 9th seeds plane crashes.

Gregoryl
June 15, 2021 2:36 pm

Listening to the podcast, love it. I also love Jerry not letting ownership use money/salary cap as an excuse to not resign Bogi.

ajon_es
June 15, 2021 4:27 pm

Win / win / win?

Screen Shot 2021-06-15 at 4.26.23 PM.png

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