The NBA Trade Deadline is February 10th. As we near the deadline, urgency will increase and trade activity should pick up. We've seen the beginning of that already. Today the Atlanta Hawks traded Cam Reddish to the New York Knicks in one of the more significant deals we've seen so far this season.
The Reddish deal was of particular note to Kings fans. It had been rumored all season that Reddish would likely be traded by the deadline. A 22-year old wing who can score and play defense seems to fit the bill of both fitting a need for the Kings while also being a piece that could help the Kings build for the future. So when the price tag was a heavily protected first round pick and a player who was out of New York's rotation, it irked some Kings fans, myself included.
The Hawks wanted a first round pick, but got a first rounder that is heavily protected and may end up eventually converting to a pair of second round picks. I don't consider that a high price for a player of Reddish's ability and upside. We can argue whether the Kings should have traded one of their own firsts for Reddish and what kinds of protections they could have added and how long you want your draft assets tied up by protections. We all lived through the drawn out protections of the infamous Vlade Divac trade with the 76ers. We know the risks. But we also know that the draft and trades are the two biggest avenues for the Kings to acquire talent, and there was an opportunity for the Kings to acquire a young, talented player at Sacramento's biggest areas of weakness, and the Kings didn't do it. The Athletic doesn't even list the Kings as one of the teams that Atlanta was in talks with.
But I'm not writing this to talk just about Cam Reddish. I'm writing this because I think it's important to discuss how we evaluate Monte McNair's front office as we approach the deadline. Whenever we complain about the Kings not making a move, there are two common and predictable responses.
- What if the Kings are saving those assets for something else?
- You don't know what offers the Kings made or what offers the Kings received.
Let's address those two ideas.
I firmly believe the Kings are saving their assets for something. What they're saving them for is anyone's guess. Ben Simmons? Maybe. Some surprise star that we don't even know is on the market? Your guess is as good as mine. But I know that the Kings have been holding their assets ever since Monte got the job. Maximizing your assets is obviously difficult. But holding an asset longer doesn't make it increase in value. Is Buddy Hield worth more this deadline than he was last deadline? What about Harrison Barnes? We don't know, but it feels unlikely to me.
But that brings us to the second and I believe more important point. We don't know what discussions the Kings are having. And that is absolutely true. The Athletic doesn't mention the Kings as being in talks for Reddish, but that just means that the Athletic's sources didn't name the Kings as a suitor. It doesn't mean McNair didn't do his due diligence. It doesn't mean he didn't try.
But that's also not an excuse.
At the end of the day it is Monte McNair's job to improve this team. We know his marching orders are to make the playoffs. Whether I agree or disagree with that strategy doesn't matter, we know that's the goal. And since Monte took over we haven't seen the Kings make a significant move to swing the odds towards the Kings being a real playoff team. The goal isn't (or shouldn't be) the play-in. It's the playoffs.
We don't know what deals Monte has offered. We don't know what deals he's been offered. But we know that Monte has had the shortened offseason when he took over, up through his first trade deadline, all of last offseason, and up to this point and time to find a deal. If nobody is offering him what he thinks a player is worth, over that period of time, then it likely means the player isn't worth what Monte is asking for.
The job is to improve the team and make the best deals possible. And sure, there are times that means holding an asset. But choosing not to take an action is an action unto itself, and should be judged just the same.
I say all of this because I don't feel like repeating it all endlessly in the comments and on twitter for the next month. I'm going to judge the moves that the Kings make or don't make. I'm going to judge them based on all possible information I have available. I understand that I may be missing information. Dear god I hope I'm missing information. I hope Monte McNair is operating with more intel than I am, and I am hoping that time proves his actions or inactions to be wise. Because at the end of the day Monte's goal is to make this team better and I want him to succeed in that goal. But as a fan and a blog boy I am going to judge actions or inactions that I see as running counter to that goal. I do so knowing full well that I might be missing key information or that I could end up being very wrong.
I'm going to be critical until the Kings give me reason to stop. Because until then I'm not sure what the Kings have done to make anyone think they still deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Please give me reason to stop doubting you, Monte.
My prediction: minor moves that do nothing significant. Enter the offseason rutterless yet again.
When you lose your rudder the boat is going to crash or go in circles…..when you lose your rutter your only destination is up shit creek
Sad but probably accurate.
My comment… is ‘no comment needed’. You got it Greg. As a corollary, I promise to not be a critic of trades if Monte actually does them. Trade somebody Monte. Maybe one of your three point guards. Maybe Buddy. Maybe Barnes. Just do it…
I make no such promise.
Blog Boy prerogative strikes again!
But it’s happening!
Ugh. Not a fan if this happens.
I’d actually be for Simmons for Fox, straight up. I think that Simmons is the better baseline-to-baseline player, I think that the hyperbole over the playoffs actually has him a bit underrated offensively, and that he would fill the wing void (especially defensively!) while opening up the backcourt for Hali / Mitchell.
There would still be work to be done – a Hali / Mitchell / Simmons lineup would need some scoring punch up front, for sure.
Given that the Sixers are looking to unload Harris, I wonder how amenable they would be to Simmons/Harris for Fox/Hield/Barnes. Harris actually played a lot better when Simmons was on the floor with him. Again, far from perfect – your bench would be sorely lacking in scoring punch and overall depth – but Holmes / Harris / Simmons / Mitchell / Hali would be an interesting starting five. Much more fun to watch on the defensive end, and a mixed bag on offense.
Yep, I’m for it. Fox has hit his ceiling and is now dropping. This team is going nowhere as it is.
And 1 – If you could figure out a way to add Simmons and Myles Turner while giving up no more than Fox and a protected pick (along with anyone not named Tyrese Haliburton), you could be a lighter version of the Griz, especially if you retained Mitchell. That would be a rather dynamic team on defense.
You could probably achieve that by giving up our 2022 and 2023 draft but i’m not sure that’s wise although a starting lineup of Hali, Simmons, Harris, Mitchell and Turner would be the best staring lineup we’d have in 15 years. I just don’t see how you improve from there with no draft picks and cap space.
Agreed Fox for Simmons looks pretty good right now. Especially with Mitchell staying. I can’t help but wonder what that squad could look like, defensively with Ty, Davion, and Ben. Trying not to hope.
not sure I understand the hype surrounding Simmons. He has the opportunity to play for a championship with his current team. Instead, he is sulking. If you trade him to the Warriors, Steph and Draymond might set him straight (turns out Mr Wiggins is pretty good after all). But on a team like the Kiings? Where does your optimism come from that he will give 110% every evening for a team that fights for the 10th place? Fox is still a good asset, wouldn’t a high character guy make more sense if he’s traded at all?
Would be willing to give this a try, but it would be a team that can’t shoot straight. Would definitely have to add shooting (which is doable).
I’ve jumped around this and I am now 100% on board for the Simmons and Harris deal.
Simmons > Fox. Harris > Hb. That is a significant change up!
Yea I could be wrong but I’m guessing Philadelphia is not getting offers anywhere near the haul they were expecting for Simmons. I suspect as we move closer to February 10th, Fox for Simmons will be the best offer they have. I’m not sure however if I’d want to take on the big Harris contract. I’ve been advocating Fox for Simmons straight across but vehemently oppose adding our 2022 first round pick as some have suggested. I would love to also move Barnes and Buddy hoping to get some draft capital and cap space. Taking on Harris will greatly reduce our flexibility to make other moves IMO.
Can anyone confirm for me that Richaun Holmes cannot be traded until summer because he was signed using his bird rights? I think I read that on Twitter and hadn’t heard of that restriction.
I checked. He can’t be traded until 1/15/22. So Saturday.
Might be a busy weekend then?
On terms of leaks, possibly. But when the league actually stamps and signs off on the deal won’t take place until Monday at the earliest.
And that assumes, too, there won’t be a failed physical by a team on a player. Like there was in the failed Bol Bol trade to Detroit.
As Elron pointed out, due to resigning with EBRs (early bird rights), you are not eligible to be traded until at least January 15th.
Which is Saturday here in 2022.
Live from Vivek’s Office:
I have come to a sad reality that since the bottom of the West is so bad and Portland has basically just thrown in the towel. The Kings can do absolutely nothing with this roster and would still be the favorites to get the 10th spot and reach the play-in tournament. They can stumble their way into it. It’s that easy.
It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if that is the plan and they then hope an opponent’s twisted ankle or protocols gets them to advance.
Look at the standings, it may just be their plan.
The old “better to be lucky than good” scenario.
Or failing and believing it’s success ! Which is what 10th spot is !
Can’t they just give everybody a trophy at the end of the season?
That would be a “participant” ribbon
Exactly why I was so bummed about Lilard injury.
I am quite convinced that this is their plan; the window of opportunity to stumble ass backwards into the play-in has never been bigger.
“Success” is within our grasp!
Poop or get off the pot, Mr. McNair. Attendance is dismal, the fanbase is past frustration and well into apathy, and nobody in town is getting excited by a play-in appearance. Nobody. it’s a pathetically weak goal that, even if reached, will signal nothing about the current team’s long-term prospects, and everyone knows it. It’s time to exit the spreadsheet and just Get. Something. Done. Ben Simmons? John Collins? Domantas Sabonis? Nobody really gives a rip anymore WHO, or WHAT (picks?) you acquire. Just acquire SOMETHING, anything, that completely re-sets this sad excuse for a table. If it doesn’t work in 2 years, that’s FINE. Seriously. Just try. I haven’t even watched a full game (in person OR on TV) in years now. Give me a reason to tune in again.
THIS! At this point, what’s the worst that can happen? We miss the playoffs again? We’ve been missing them the last 15 years.
Yeah the seemingly lack of urgency to do something is perplexing and frustrating. We do however have to wait until February 10th unit we pass final judgment. Having said that not getting Reddish in a deal similar to the Knicks deal isn’t a great loss to me. I want deals that bring back draft capital and open up cap space. I think it’s pretty clear a significant almost total rebuild is necessary.
Agreed, wait until Feb 10 for a final judgment… but at that time, render the final judgment. I’m not at all upset about not making a play for Reddish; in the all-too-well-known parlance, he does not “move the needle” in either direction (toward legitimate playoff contention or the top of the lottery). He’s a “nice player,” and depending on “nice players” to play above themselves is a recipe for 32-50 basketball. We in Sac know this very well by now!
Agree and well put.
I think Vivek believes he’s smarter than everyone and that this team is talented enough to win in the playoffs and win big.
Soneine needs to distract him like a string pulled around in front of a cat, and makes moves.
Vivek’s playoff mandate is an issue. And it’s not even real playoffs. Fucking playin
Vivek is the problem
That’s why I’m reluctant to “just do something.” I think a rebuild is necessary and the Reddish deal would have fit well in that scenario.
If we package Fox (or any of our value players) with picks for a “star,” I don’t see that changing much. Maybe it adds a few wins, but a lower playoff seed at most.
Then we’d be stuck with no picks to fortify the team. We can trade, but that likely won’t change fortunes that much as we would not want to trade any of the value players we have left.
Unfortunately, I think this team needs a rebuild from the ground up. Keep Fox, Hali, Damian and trade everyone else for any kind of picks or young players possible. Tank and keep building through the draft.
It will take a long time, but Vlade screwed everything when he passed on Doncic.
I know the FO doesn’t want to do this.
They are “saving their assets” for Viveks cheapass. Guy is a penny pincher who won’t invest in the team yet blows money on stupid gm/coaches hires
Vivek may be an idiot, but he’s not cheap.
We were one of the first franchises to furlough a sizeable part of the employees.
The Kings shareholders were also confronted with a capital call not too long ago.
This year is the largest payroll the team has had in years, he has paid multiple coaches/GMs simultaneously for years, the team had to pay a sizable overage on the arena costs, its reported the team lost at least $100M during the pandemic, etc..
I would say his incredibly poor decision-making has been a much bigger problem than his lack of spending.
He is not willing to do what it takes to build a winning team. The payroll and paying old coaches/gm’s are due to dumb decisions not because the owner isn’t cheap. All teams suffered through covid. Why doesn’t he drop money on a real gm instead of rookies? I’ll tell you why, because rookies cost less just like rookie nba players cost less. I don’t see Vivek investing much into the team beyond what the minimum is. If he would invest and step away we wouldn’t be in this situation 8 years after he bought the damn team.
Reddish will be eligible for a rookie-scale extension this summer, which is one of the reasons the Hawks, who already have several sizable contracts in place, were willing to move him. Also the protections on the first round pick from Charlotte are top 18 2022, top 16 2023, and top 14 2024. There really is no reason to assume the pick will convert to two second rounders. Lastly, Reddish is not a good defender yet as you mentioned. He can score and is shooting a fairly impressive percentage but I don’t see a great deal of ability yet for him to create his own shot. Also, I’m not impressed with his court sense and vision which may likely improve with time. I don’t think the trade was necessarily a slam dunk and I not sure a Kings first rounder only somewhat protected due to the Kings ineptitude would be a good move for the Kings. I do however share the fan base frustration that the Kings still have failed to do something. I guess to be fair however we have to wait until February 10th to pass definitive judgment.
Agree with this. And that Monte will be judged only on what he does, not how hard he does or doesn’t try. He should get until the start of next season. If that team starts slow, he should be out.
Ah the old, “we have to wait and see if ____ can integrate into the new system.” Insert coaches, gms, players, 916 crew, etc.
Agree with this timeline. He’s waiting and waiting and waiting for a trade to come along that will improve the team. I certainly hope he doesn’t think (and doesn’t get) three years to make one trade that actually improves the team.
Yet he will make the Knicks better and likely a 15-20 point scorer sooner than later ! Kings pick not likely to be as good !
Kings pick will be 8-10. Hawks would go for that. Hawks got Knicks second first rounder at around 20. Reddish MIGHT be worth that. Might.
If he averages 15, it is 30 one night and zero the next.
A Kings first rounder is too high for Reddish. Knicks gave up a Charlotte pick protected but not enough that it will not probably convey.
So this is not their own first rounder.
Redish not a good defender and never met his potential. I see a taller B-Mac.
and he is inconsistent. Sabonis is a good player but cannot spread the floor- Redundant with Holmes. Collins is fine but at what price?
I suspect only minor deals if any and lots of “we had a better deal yesterday stuff”
Sabonis is better than any King and why is an All Star !
Do the Kings have two superstars? No.
Arrange what you need. Without two superstars it will never be anything but a night out.
That’s why you accumulate a bunch of draft capital and hope you get lucky with a couple. First step is to move expensive veterans like Barnes and Buddy and I think Holmes when eligible for draft picks and cap space. I’d also move Fox if I can get a couple of firsts and some longer term cap space but it have to be a pretty decent haul. Once, I’ve done that, I use the cap space to pickup a bad contract no more than two years in exchange for more draft picks. If you get to the point a couple years down the road where you think you’re just a piece or two away then consider sacrificing some draft capital for a NBA ready player. I’d be very reluctant to give up any first round picks for marginal gambles like Reddish at this point.
Your strategy is fine except that 4 teams have a head start- OKC, Detroit, Houston and Orlando. Look at teams with multiple first round picks- they acquired them with this strategy and do not want to give them up for middle aged vets.
The teams that want middle aged vets- the contending teams -have little left in the cupboard – very few picks except late first round picks and very few young players who might make a difference.
at this point, no one is giving up a potential high lottery pick and the Kings need that + a ton of luck to get a player. They could get enough ping pong balls to get a #2 !!!!! and, oh yes, pick a Bagley
Holmes is eligible to be traded tomorrow, January 15th.
I agree with your plan. The Kings front office definitely have to find suitors for Buddy, Barnes and possibly Holmes. I think you’re right on at least dangling Fox to see what the market offers. If the payback is big enough, go for it.
The Kings have to go big, or go home. I know it’s not always possible, but just doing minor moves ain’t gonna cut it this time.
Pistons and Spurs had long, successful runs without 2 stars, in my book. But they required elite coaching and player leadership – neither of which has been here since Adelman.
I mean when you talk about the Spurs did you consider, Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Genobli, Tony Parker, KL. I’m not sure what era your referring to but there was plenty of talent there.
To me Ginobli and Parker weren’t stars. Robinson was declining when Duncan became a star. Duncan was declining when Kawhi became a star. I saw them as always having one star, and then some very good players.
I guess it depends on how you define a star. To me there was a good window of time where Tony Parker was perhaps the most complete back court player in the game.
Put them on another team and what would do they do? That’s how I’d measure a star. Of course, it’s theoretical, because it doesn’t often happen. But I don’t think Parker, Ginobli, old Duncan, or old Robinson would’ve turned the Kings into anything. LeBron, Durant, Curry, Kawhi, etc would have.
It is theoretical, but I believe that, given the mostly slow pace and deliberate, team-oriented play of the Spurs, Manu and Parker would have been able to play a bigger role on different teams. Their efficiency might have dropped a little, but they would make it up with bigger raw numbers (and that is what most people would still look at).
In their best seasons, they averaged 22 points and 6.9 assists (Parker) and 19.5 points, 4.8 rebs and 4.5 assists (Manu).
And then think about the fact that they averaged relatively low minutes, and would play longer as the main man on another team (Manu highest season 31.3 minutes per game, Parker 34.4).
For comparison, Lillard averages 36.3 minutes over his whole career. Manu 25.4 and Parker 30.5.
I don’t think Tony Parker’s Sacramento Kings or Manu Ginobli’s Orlando Magic scare anyone. Put Duncan on those teams, however.
Ginobli will be an early Hall of Famer and Parker later !
Ehhhhh. Robinson was still a top 10 player the first few years of Duncan’s career. He was a top 25 or so player 5 of the 6 seasons they played together. There is absolutely zero rationale that supports the idea those Duncan/Robinson teams didn’t have two stars. As for Ginobili, well, if he wasn’t a star I’m not sure what is. He put up top 20 level production for 7-8 straight seasons, top 10 in many of those, and even fringe MVP consideration level in a few. Even those good Pistons teams had two top 20 producers in Wallace and Billups. Then added in like 3-4 top 50 producers.
Well reasoned and well stated Greg. +1.
welcome to the kings Russell Westbrook and Tobias Harris!
Either Haliburton or Fox will have to get moved for any trade that moves the needle. Otherwise, it’s all nibbling around the edges.
That should be the only discussion internally.
Which player makes the most sense going forward.
IDK, it depends on what you can get for Barnes, Buddy and Holmes. Start there and then maybe move Fox.
Role players are going to bring back role players. This team can no longer make minor moves hoping they pay off big.
Need to make big moves that guarantee a big change.
Which maybe the reason they haven’t done anything yet. Trading for a superstar is not the only way to build/improve a team. Depending on who you listen to there are no more than 5 superstars in the league. Small market teams usually improve by drafting and developing well and by making smart trades to improve the team’s roster position by position.
Hoping for one or two great players who will magically turn the team instantly into a chip contender is a fantasy.
Milwaukee disagrees with you
Really hoping for a Barnes/Holmes/2 FRPs for John Collins type of deal. Maybe Atlanta says no especially if they want Simmons. But that’s my favorite potential deal the Kings COULD make.
Yep. Maybe more than I give up for Collins, but something like that might be as good as this team can do. I don’t think that move shifts the team into playoff contention, but maybe it improves you from an asset perspective. Win incremental deals like this and keep making them until you actually get better. I wouldn’t complain too much about this even if I think it’s too much. It’s better than sitting around not getting anything done with Vlade Divac’s core until you get fired.
Don’t need a superstar. We need a core that works at this point. We have proven that the core we have does not work.
Significant move is moving on from this core.
Just role players of a different type ! Think Delon Wright for T Thompson !
At this point Tristan is all role, no player.
Unfortunately, I think the play-in is what Vivek is looking at, as if that should somehow be considered a great accomplishment that’ll placate the fanbase. IF the goal were truly to get to the playoffs, we should have seen some significant moves from Monte over the past 1+ year. Instead, he’s just been polishing the same turd, and there’s nothing that’s happened so far to convince me that there’s a plan to make any significant moves. A desperate “he’s got the green light” leak to the press doesn’t count for anything. I’ve got a bleak feeling about this trade deadline, and the foreseeable future.
10 seed = one postseason road game, right? As if all of Sacramento is going to lose their minds over that.
I see more minor moves. Maybe, something hideous, like Wiggens, Hart, Bazemore, or Okogie.
I did see a pretty cool trade for Fox on Fansided:
Toronto Trades: Scottie Barnes, Goran Dragic, Precious, and Toronto’s 22 pick for Fox.
Some other moves I like, that won’t Happen: Trading for D’Andre Hunter(Was playing well before the injury), Christian Wood, John Collins, If the Kings trade one of Fox/Hali, I like the KIngs going after Coby WHite or Colin Sexton. Nic Claxton, Patrick Williams, Derrick Jones Jr, I would take THT and Nunn for Hield(That would be great), Fox to the Knicks for Barrett/Toppin.
No way in Hell are the Raptors giving up Barnes for Fox. That dude will be the face of their franchise by this time next year and a multi-year all-star the way he is trending.
I’m not exaggerating when I feel he’s one of those Paul George/Kawhi Leonard type players you build around for a decade.
Barnes can be the next Scottie Pippen ! A potential Hall of Famer ! Fox not close to that !
So the Raptors are trading a versatile, exciting guy having an exceptional rookie season as the absolute prototype of a modern NBA wing in order to pick up a max player that plays the same position as their best player. Oh, and they’re throwing in a 1st round pick for the pleasure of doing it.
So it’s the Hail Mary with the backup QB strategy?
No, it’s the green light for bolstering our postseason chances in the present while giving us a runway for sustained success in the future.
And that runway is darned short, it seems.
So he’s basically made very clear that the team will suck in perpetuity. Great way to inspire confidence in the fans.
Neither is any other strategy. He’s not doing anything.
Its clear what’s going on
the poor ownership cant afford this team
keeping Walton was a financial move
this poor ownership has been hit with a tidal wave of covid reeking havoc on franchise sales and their projects downtown
they cant afford several more years of bad ticket prices
Keep thowin’ things at the wall…
Ham proposed this deal on his podcast: Bagley to PDX for Covington. Trade Covington, buddy, Barnes and 2 unprotected 1s to philly for Simmons and Tobias.
I would not do that. If Simmons craps out like he has in Philadelphia you now have no draft, no cap space, no roster and your hole is one they may never get out of. Simmons for Fox straight across would be a reasonable gamble and at this point I don’t think Philadelphia is going to do much better for Simmons.
I’d be OK with that, minus the “unprotected” part.
I don’t believe you can package a newly acquired player in a new trade. Isn’t there some kind timespan that newly acquired player needs to be on the new team before he can be packaged again. From that, I think Covington would have to be traded independently from Buddy and Barnes, which wouldn’t work salary wise.
Also why does PDX do that trade and it doesn’t even work in the trade machine as a 3 team trade. More salary would be needed to be exchanged
60 days Adam. That’s what you’re thinking of.
Thanks, I knew there was some kind of rule like that.