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30Q: Can Kevin Huerter regain his mojo?

Kevin Huerter needs a bounce back season more than anyone else on the Kings.
By | 109 Comments | Sep 3, 2024

Mar 18, 2024; Sacramento, California, USA; Sacramento Kings guard Kevin Huerter (9) suffers an injury during the first quarter against the Memphis Grizzlies at Golden 1 Center. Mandatory Credit: Sergio Estrada-USA TODAY Sports

If there was one Sacramento Kings player to be targeted as having the most disappointing season of 2023-24, it would have been Kevin Huerter.  In his second year with the Kings, Huerter struggled to figure out his role as Coach Mike Brown opted for a more defensive-minded approach.  His time in the rotation and starting lineup was inconsistent, and so was his once pure shot, dipping from 40.2% from three the year before to just 36.1% in year two.  Worst of all, Huerter suffered a shoulder injury that required surgery with just a month left into the season, and it’s only recently that he’s been cleared for on-court activity.  For much of this summer, it was unclear if Huerter was even going to be on the team come training camp as he was dangled as a piece in trade rumors.

Huerter remains a King for now though, but his role may look far different this season.  Huerter was Sacramento’s de facto starting shooting guard during his first two seasons, but it’s hard to see that being the case when he comes back after Keon Ellis laid a claim to the role late in the season. But Huerter can still be an effective player, and a bench role might unlock him in a way that starting doesn’t.

Huerter is a shooter first and foremost, and coming off the bench as a backup wing should allow him to focus on that strength.  Huerter also has some playmaking chops and has shown himself to be a willing passer, giving the Kings a secondary playmaker in the rotation.  The Kings should also be able to always have one of Fox, Sabonis or DeRozan on the floor at all times, giving a guy like Huerter someone to play off of.  Huerter and Sabonis’ chemistry in particular has been very evident during their time together; In 2022-23, 17.9% of Sabonis’ total passes went to Kevin Huerter.  Huerter shot 43.3% on threes off of Domas’ passes, usually thanks to being wide open after a dribble hand off with Sabonis screening his man.  However in 2023-24, opponents attacked those DHOs far more aggressively and both the frequency (12.7%) and effectiveness (36.7%) of the shots generated fell off.

Coming off the bench will likely mean that Huerter isn’t playing with Domas quite as much (although they should still play together when possible to maximize effectiveness) and will need to be a bit more effective off the ball to get open for spot up shots.  Playing with a guy like DeMar DeRozan who can suck in the defense when driving the paint should help as well.  We haven’t seen the Kings play Monk and Huerter together a ton so far, but that could change this season if both are coming off the bench.  Monk will likely be a primary initiator and playmaker with the bench unit, while Huerter offers a secondary playmaking option and yet another perimeter threat for the defense to worry about.  Huerter should also benefit from having a more defined and consistent role, as his playing time as a starter was inconsistent last season as Coach Brown experimented at times with guys like Chris Duarte or Keon Ellis playing more as he sought to improve the team’s defense, often giving Huerter the early hook.

A healthy and consistent Kevin Huerter makes the Kings a better and more dangerous team.  Hopefully he comes into camp fully healed and ready to embrace a new role in the Kings offense.  If he can rediscover his shot and play at the level he was in his first season with the Kings, Sacramento will have one of the most dangerous bench units in the league. If he can’t, he may very well be on his way out sooner rather than later.

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Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
September 3, 2024 9:39 am

If he remains a King, I see Huerter as a very solid backup 2/3, whereas Monk is the backup 1/2. We know he is a shooter so having him come off the bench if Keegan an/or Keon are struggling with their shot is a luxury, especially if injures occur elsewhere on the depth chart. I could see a situation where his minutes take a hit, but his efficiency improves. His three point gravity could be a real asset to team spacing, especially with the excellent mid-range games of Fox, DDR, and Sabonis.

All that being said, I think we need to realize that Huerter’s numbers last year (excluding games missed to injury) are actually closer to his career averages. Huerter’s best year as a pro was his first in Sacramento, so maybe that is the outlier and our expectations are a bit high?

In the end, however, if Keon proves to be the starting off guard and with Monk signed long term, Huerter is likely very good trade fodder by the deadline, especially if Carter heals up and becomes the two way player we all hope him to be.

Jack
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September 3, 2024 10:15 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I am torn between Huerter staying as a King or traded for someone like a power forward with defense and stretch. I agree with all the above assessments. I quess it’s up to Monty to make that decision. IMO the decision will be a hard one but will really affect where the team is heading.

Adamsite
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September 3, 2024 10:27 am
Reply to  Jack

or traded for someone like a power forward with defense and stretch.

Isn’t that Keegan?

I feel Monte and Brown have committed to running Keegan at the 4 spot. He has the size and will continue to bulk up. In my mind, the traditional PF isn’t really a thing anymore in the NBA. All three wing positions have become interchangeable. Boston roles with Tatum, Dallas has PJ Washington, Denver has Aaron Gordon, and OKC plays Jalen Williams at the 4. Those 4 title contending teams run smaller than traditional PFs who are switchable and can guard multiple positions. I don’t see why 6’8″ Keegan can’t be the same kind of player.

catterj
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September 3, 2024 11:07 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I was ready to disagree, but I looked up some stats and I think you’re right!

I agree with what you’re saying about positionless basketball. The traditional positions don’t matter as much as lineups having the right skills. Domas is a big who doesn’t defend well at the rim, and every team wants to have shooters to get 3 instead of 2 and spread the floor for drives to the rim. Hence, Jack wanting a 3&D PF next to Domas or at least that’s what I was thinking.

But Keegan could be that. His def FG% at the rim was 59.5% which isn’t that bad on 3.6 attempts. He led the team in blocks even though I don’t think blocks are the end-all-be-all. They mean the shot missed which is good, but you don’t need a block for a shot to miss. And we know Keegan can shoot.

With Barnes not occupying the 4 anymore, we will see more of whether this is a good fit to start next season.

andy_sims
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September 3, 2024 11:16 am
Reply to  Adamsite

My guess is that Jack was talking about a power forward with more height, and more about defense & rebounding than offense. We could definitely use a guy like that, and if Huerter needs to go in order to make that happen, that’s not a dealbreaker for me.

I do think that Huerter has a good chance of coming back and being effective. As Akis pointed out, a player like DeRozan makes life much easier for perimeter shooters, and while their on-court time together will depend on rotations, it’s not as if the Kings are short of players who can force a defense to collapse away from the arc.

The structure would appear to be in place for Huerter to be his best self, and we’ll all have to wait to see how that goes.

Jack
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September 3, 2024 7:10 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

After mulling things over for quite sometime IMO we should stay pat with the roster we have. I think two things have to happen though. One Keven needs to get his mojo back, Do I think he can? Absolutely. Second will Devin, when healthy,contribute to this team? Absolutely. GO KINGS!

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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September 3, 2024 7:15 pm
Reply to  Jack

I too think the roster is set for camp. Monte now has time to evaluate and see how roles play out in Brown’s system. It’s nice to have depth and competition for playing time!

Huerter off the bench really is a luxury. The Kings have two starting caliber players in Monk and Huerter coming off the bench. Playoff teams need that kind of depth in case of injury or matchups. I truly feel this roster is better than the roster that entered camp last season. Let it ride and time will tell.

TheGrantNapear
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September 3, 2024 11:27 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

The issue with KM and DS at the 4 and 5 is the clear lack of athleticism and length. Commenters have pointed this issue out ad nauseum as the achilles heal of this roster for two years.
It was on full display in the series against the duds two years ago and last year as a whole. IMO it’s the thing that will continue to hold back this roster back.
MM doesn’t seem concerned though.

murraytant
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September 3, 2024 10:49 pm
Reply to  Jack

If KH starts, teams have to guard all 5 guys. If Keon starts, get more firepower off bench and more D from starting unit.
KH out 8months would be after start of season.
Carter had same injury- when is 8 months past his surgery?

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 9:51 am

Kevin mentioned at the end of the season that he focused on a certain part of his game after the 1st season with the Kings, which he thought ultimately hurt his overall game (my guess is just focusing on the DHO and little else).

Hopefully he will be able to go back to being a bit more well-rounded player offensively. His shooting is needed, and the guard depth really isn’t that deep (Fox/Monk/Keon/Huerter/McLaughlin/Jones). DeRozan could slot in at a Guard, but probably not where the team would want him a lot. Carter is not included because he is hurt and a rookie, so it is challenging to know what he will bring.

RikSmits
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September 3, 2024 10:28 am
Reply to  Hobby916

I feel last season that teams were following the Warriors’ blueprint from the playoffs and focused strongly on taking away the DHO, and there was no plan B, other than spray 3’s. I think Huerter’s play was a letdown, but the lack of counters to teams overplaying the DHO let Huerter down. Brown showed very little flexibility or creativity.

And as much as I like Domas, once the DHO didn’t work and he had to improvise, it all became a bit mechanic, ponderous and predictable. Lots of stripped balls in those instances, IIRC.

But again, it starts with coaching, and IMO Brown didn’t do Huerter and Domas much favors in that regard.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 10:39 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Correct. Take away the main play and Coach Brown just kept trying to push that square peg in the round hole.

One of the reasons why I like the DeRozan trade. Teams can take away the DHO, but then they have DeRozan there to give a completely different look.

RikSmits
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September 3, 2024 10:51 am
Reply to  Hobby916

True, I just hope it won’t be the predictable dumping to DDR for a 1-4 flat ISO with the clock running down.
There needs to be ball movement and movement without the ball.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 10:57 am
Reply to  RikSmits

The ball movement is key, always will be in basketball. I think DeRozan will have more gravity than Barnes, which might deter defenses to jump to stop the DHO. They go after Huerter DHO, then DeRozan is probably left on the weakside with Keegan in the corner. Not a good place for a defense.

Brown and Triano better have some additional styles this season, or things will get ugly.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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September 3, 2024 1:37 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

If I’m a Head Coach… then oh boy! that team and franchise is in deep, subterranean level doo doo – but all I do is pack the paint for the mid-range games of Fox and DeRozan and make the Kings beat from beyond 22’9″/23′. Thus, I expect Fox will continue to shoot more 3s and I would be fine with that (as the opposing HC).

As a Kings fan, I am happy to see the ball in young Keegan’s 3 point shooting hands. No one makes them all, but giving him the touches in this stage of his career seems the right move.

Having approached end of the game strategies on this Kevin Huerter headlined thread… my biggest beef with Red Velvet is that his “clutch time” play has been Darren Collison level poooooop. (sorry, yesterday’s harken back to the Kings of times past got me going).

Of course, Huerter is now the 6th? option in the closing minutes… Fox, DeRozan, Monk, Keegs, Domas, … Huerter? More likely than not, he won’t be on the floor anyway, but I will mention this, nonetheless.

I have to believe that Jaden (not Jalen) and Kevon (not Keon) will not be wearing the purple and grey after the trade deadline February date.

Sacto_J
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September 3, 2024 2:27 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Domas didn’t attack the basket as much as much as he could’ve / should’ve. He looked to pass to a fault, quite a lot actually. Teams knew they didn’t have to guard him going to the rim on his dribble drives much so they were able to guard the DHO almost exclusively and it made for a season long problem.
Whether that’s an issue of recognition on Domas’ part, the playbook / Mike Brown, whatever, they didn’t adapt all season and it cost them repeatedly.
DeRozan should fix some of that. But Domas has to attack the basket and command that attention in the same way Fox, now that he’s a legitimate 3 level scorer, can’t be ignored from range; it opens up space and creates lanes. Domas was the most 1 dimensional triple double threat I’ve ever seen over the course of the season last year. I love his play, but that can’t happen again for the Kings to have success moving forward.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sacto_J
Jack
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September 3, 2024 7:22 pm
Reply to  Sacto_J

I respectively disagree. Sabonis is one of the top 4 centers in the league. I will take every triple double and double double he had last year this year as well. Sure every player in this league can improve on certain areas of his game. He is not a great defensive center but who rebounded better? Who was better than assists? Who is a better passer at center than Domas? One thing he needs to improve on is mid range shooting. He has the stroke he just doesn’t use it. He is truly a team player and along with Fox they are one of the best duos in the league.

RikSmits
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September 3, 2024 9:37 pm
Reply to  Sacto_J

With Mike Brown constantly complaining about not shooting enough spray 3’s I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it was mainly the playbook.

jwalker1395
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September 3, 2024 11:20 am
Reply to  Hobby916

To this point, I think coming off the bench will be beneficial. Rather than being a 5th option with the starters and placed into a C&S box, Huerter will likely be the 2nd/3rd option against second units which will ask him to be a more complete player with his playmaking and self creation. I expect a more varied shot diet this season with increased efficiency. Im a believer in Huerter and think he’s a perfect fit as an offensive swiss army knife for this team.

Jack
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September 3, 2024 7:24 pm
Reply to  jwalker1395

I agree.

Jman1949
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September 3, 2024 9:56 am

Huerter was cleared for on-court workouts just a few days ago but won’t be fully cleared until at least mid-October.

Huerter has been cleared for on-court workouts, shooting drills and a complete strength training program, the team announced, and he will be re-evaluated in mid-October before being cleared for full contact court activity.

Jack
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September 3, 2024 10:24 am
Reply to  Jman1949

IMO what happens to Kevin depends on things like where will Keon be placed (Brown’s decision). Will he start? Another decision is how much will Carter affect the overall team’s makeup. We don’t know but from all we think he will contribute both on offense and more on defense. Another guard. A lot to decide on both with Monty and Mike. IMO a decision might be made before training camp starts. Kevin’s future depends on decisions.

Jack
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September 3, 2024 10:26 am
Reply to  Jack

PS. Then there is Malik. He IMO needs to play as much as possible. Another decision.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 10:44 am
Reply to  Jack

Monk played 26mpg last season. I think that is close to what he should be playing. He is still up and down with his play, which means some games he was glued to the bench because of his decisions. If he is on and making shots and good decisions, then keep him out there. If it is a bad Malik game, then pivot to another option.

RikSmits
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September 3, 2024 10:35 am
Reply to  Jack

I would be surprised if Carter will be any consideration the upcoming season, and if he is, we are probably in trouble.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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September 3, 2024 2:52 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

On this Kevin Huerter based thread:

Who’s your first bench five in February/March/April?

Jordan McLaughlin/Malik Monk or Keon Ellis/Devin Carter/Trey Lyles/Alex Len

Orlando Robinson and a MIC Jones (Mason/Isaac/Colby). Where are you putting Kevin Huerter once Devin Carter is ready for Play? McDaniels could be another Jones (Jaden (not Jalen) McDaniels Jones, maybe).

Jack
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September 3, 2024 3:03 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

How so?

RikSmits
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September 3, 2024 9:30 pm
Reply to  Jack

Because he’s injured and will be rusty when he comes back late in the season and because he’s a rookie, late lotto, from an allegedly so-so draft who hasn’t played a minute of NBA ball yet and because his coach likes to stick with his favorites.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 10:49 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

He is also one of many guards so he is not needed at this point. Fortunately this team has reached the point at which players need to earn playing time. This a great place to be. No more building rosters around rookies.

Klam
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September 3, 2024 10:32 am
Reply to  Jman1949

How long after being cleared for full contact court activity until a player is usually good to go for playing?

murraytant
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September 3, 2024 10:57 pm
Reply to  Klam

week or so

catterj
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September 3, 2024 10:52 am

In the last two seasons, Brown took Fox out pretty early, kept Domas in longer, then when he took Domas out put Fox back in with the second unit. If this persists and Huerter is in the second unit, he will have to get more of his looks from Monk and Fox. That should definitely be doable; it will just require a change in preparation and practice. 

I agree with others that Huerter will be in trade discussions. He has a nice-sized $16M salary to make a trade work financially with only one year after if a team wants to re-trade him.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 11:03 am

In an ideal perfect world Huerter gets his shot back and is the starter. That allows the team to move Keon in a deal for a highly talented power forward.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 11:07 am

Where does that leave Keegan? He is the current PF.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 11:09 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Playing his natural position. Which is not PF.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 11:12 am

I can only guess that you mean SF(?) Now what about DeRozan?

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 11:16 am
Reply to  Hobby916

That is what this team needs to sort out isn’t it?

Keegan and Derozan at the three spot. They will likely share time and play without a real four most of the time. Forcing Keegan in the four spot is not ideal.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 11:21 am

I don’t think Keegan is miscast as a 4. He might struggle against some of the bigger 4s, but he is in line with most others at his position.

I also think that Monte has it sorted out. DeRozan at 3, Keegan at 4. He made the moves.

Last edited 1 month ago by Josh Hobson
Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 12:28 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I think there is another move to be made. Get a talented true four.

“This is the best we could do” isn’t enough. Maybe Keegan is option to trade now he is redundant and playing a position out of his box?

Your opinion and my opinion.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 12:37 pm

Before the DeRozan trade, I thought the best move was to get that bigger PF and slide Keegan to the SF for the bulk of his minutes. But that never materialized. My hunch is that DeRozan will be around for 2 years, and traded on the last year of that deal, maybe for a bigger PF?

andy_sims
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September 3, 2024 2:29 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I agree with you, Murray is likely most-effective at small forward, as he’d often have advantages in height and strength.

A stretch four who can rebound and play decent defense would allow Brown to throw a pretty huge lineup out there (Keegan at 3, DDR at 2), but those guys can be tough to get.

And as has been discussed, none of the guys who are actually potentially available don’t exactly knock anyone’s socks off, unless Sacramento could get a deal that looks a lot more like highway robbery than a typical trade.

The Kings can be a pretty good team as constructed, but finding that legit PF could make them a great one.

but those guys can be tough to get

Yeah, I quoted myself. I feel dirty.

JoeEnzyme
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September 3, 2024 6:30 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Well at least you quoted somebody with whom you have a committed relationship. LOL

Last edited 1 month ago by JoeEnzyme
andy_sims
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September 4, 2024 10:00 am
Reply to  JoeEnzyme

Love/hate at best.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 10:51 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Was it you that mentioned Portis being traded for Ellis?

murraytant
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September 3, 2024 11:06 pm

Portis would be fine, but the price is high. There are still a few serviceable unsigned FA’s out there- Crowder, Covington, Cedi Osmond one of the Morris twins- but most are older. Need Sasha replacement.
at the end of camp, some teams might want to get in under the cap or apron. Kings have one open spot
Lost 6 players, gained 5.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 11:43 pm
Reply to  murraytant

I think it was Jack that mentioned a Portis for Keon trade?

I think it is a possibility but know nothing of it in terms of reality. Portis is probably pretty cheap realistically for what he is as a player. I like seeing your list of options. Good to know there are a number of fours around.

Jack
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September 4, 2024 6:55 am

It was not Jack. IMO I WOULD NOT trade Keon Ellis. Wrong person.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 4, 2024 9:07 am
Reply to  Jack

Crazy that your name was next to it?

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 10:02 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Have never seen Derozan play in a Kings uniform. If he continues his career averages I hope he finishes his career here. Keeping the trio of Fox, Sabonis, and Derozan with a legitimately good power forward would be nice. Keon, Huerter and the seventeen other guards are interchangeable.

Jack
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September 4, 2024 6:56 am

Keegan Murray is a legitimate power forward.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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September 3, 2024 3:11 pm

Can you name a “more talented four” that’s available and does what Keegan does not? Keep in mind that would also mean sliding Keegan to the 3 and DDR to the 2 to make it worthwhile.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 4:40 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

comment image

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 10:05 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Not one that anyone knows is available. That is Monte’s job. I would like to see is team with a good power forward. Up until about a week ago the entire world clearly saw that as a need for this team.

I think Rik Smits explained it best one of his previous comments.

murraytant
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September 3, 2024 11:01 pm

there ought to be another move. I do not like Jaden- on same or worse level than Edwards.
Could use some length at 4.
Kings do have 2 trade exceptions for about 6 M each- means can take in 6M more than goes out. Jaden can be now aggregated in a trade.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 11:44 pm
Reply to  murraytant

I think as the season gets close to starting Monte will have some opportunities.

Daydreamer
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September 3, 2024 11:13 am

Where does that leave DeRozan?

Jack
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September 3, 2024 1:13 pm
Reply to  Daydreamer

At small forward.

RikSmits
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September 3, 2024 9:26 pm
Reply to  Daydreamer

Positionless basketball baby!

A great buzzword when you play your SF out of position at PF but meaningless when you have a 35 year old guard playing SF’s because he can’t hang with guards anymore…

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 10:07 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

The marketing department has always been well above average while the team was busy setting record breaking losing streaks.

All of a sudden we are good at power forward. Kind of like when Barnes, who is a three, was pushed into the four spot.

Jack
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September 3, 2024 1:11 pm

I would not do this as Keon is our best defender and IMO has earned the starting role as SG. With all the offense we are going to have we still need defense.Keon rakes care of the front court and Keegan the back court. still believe Fox has good defendive skills at his position. IMO if I would trade one of those two Huerter would be the one. Also IMO if we stay pat right now I woundn’t have a problem with that.

andy_sims
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September 3, 2024 2:34 pm
Reply to  Jack

ABB has never been a fan of Keon, mostly, I think, to play the contrarian for whatever reason.

A number of us saw Ellis’ potential early on, but I get as many wrong as anyone else. I just don’t see the point of dying on a particular hill when I swing and miss.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 4:41 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Sara and ABB are the same person? Responses seemed familiar.

Daydreamer
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September 3, 2024 5:49 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

ABB = ShaneKC = Sara Janelle Trampe.

”Keon is a G-League player” becomes “Keon is not as good as Monk/Huerter; start one of them” becomes “Trade Keon.”

It’s hard for me to understand what view is behind all of this. As many have pointed out, Kings defense improved dramatically with Keon in the starting lineup; Fox played better defense too. Keon shot well.

Last edited 1 month ago by Daydreamer
Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 6:18 pm
Reply to  Daydreamer

comment image&ct=g

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 10:15 pm
Reply to  Jack

Davion used to be the best defender. Did not equal wins. Keon is a player that very few expected to be the player he was in a short stint. That is great and Monte did good getting an average player for nothing. Average is not the ultimate goal. Winning playoff series and rings is the ultimate goal. I think a power forward will help that. Keon is a great value player that may help in a trade.

Haliburton did.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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September 3, 2024 1:42 pm

Keon Ellis has a $5.1M/3 yr deal – which highly talented power forward are you trading him for to match that salary?

catterj
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September 3, 2024 2:37 pm

Per Spotrac, the Kings did not use their non-taxpayer mid-level exception, so with the new CBA rules that’s $12.8M they can use as salary. Throw in Jalen McDaniels’ $4.7M and Keon’s $2.1M gets you to about $20M. It will be interesting to see how the NTMLE is used at the deadline.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 4:43 pm
Reply to  catterj

I don’t think the MLE can be used in trades with other players…it think it’s like a TPE in that it can only be used by itself for a player that fits in to the amount

UpgradedToQuestionable
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September 3, 2024 5:43 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

So….

Ben Simmons?

catterj
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September 3, 2024 6:06 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I’m not sure what you mean. You’re saying it can’t be used in trades with other players. You’re saying it can be used by itself for a player. I don’t know what you mean by that. Would you provide a hypothetical example? Thanks.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 6:16 pm
Reply to  catterj

Let’s say Player X makes $10m dollars. Kings can use the MLE to absorb that player and his contract.

If that same player makes $15m, the Kings can not use the MLE and Keon Ellis + Colby Jones (as examples) all in the same trade to get that player.

So the Kings can use the MLE to only absorb a player that fits under the MLE amount. No other Kings players can be used with the MLE to get a player making more than the MLE

Adamsite
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September 3, 2024 7:11 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Kings are hard capped after the DDR sign and trade anyway. They only have the room that is available below the threshold.

Hobby916
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September 3, 2024 7:23 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Yeah, it was more a general statement on the MLE rules. Kings can’t really do much unless they shed some salary somehow.

catterj
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September 3, 2024 7:27 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Ah yes, gotcha. Thanks.

andy_sims
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September 3, 2024 2:37 pm

Exactly this. Assuming even marginal growth on Ellis’ part, he’ll be the best value contract in the league. And as you pointed out, you’d still need to throw in a ton of other assets to get anywhere near the contract of a PF that could make a real difference.

Never say never, but I have no discomfort in saying highly unlikely.

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September 3, 2024 3:03 pm

You really have a thing for wanting to move Keon, and I just can’t figure out why. The dude shot over 40% from three while starting and helped the Kings move to #6 in defense over the last quarter of the season. You don’t trade a guy that makes that kind of impact, especially for one on his steal of a deal.

Jack
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September 3, 2024 5:27 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I agree!

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 10:31 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I like Keon and he is welcome to stay. He is also a player that has value in a trade and is tradeable because he is redundant. Hence the discussions that continue about Huerter or Keon. Huerter and Keon can also be easily replaced by many players in the NBA. I think a power forward would be much more helpful for this team. So did the rest of the world not too long ago.

Pretty sure you felt the same about needing a power forward?

There was not a deal to be had for a four. We got Derozan which is great. Traded Haliburton for Sabonis to improve the team.

Why is Ellis untouchable?

I want to see this team thrive. I have never said outright trade Keon. I have said many times that Keon might bring some value in a trade and not leave an irreparable hole on the roster. Every player is one that can be traded. Keon happens to be one that other teams may want because of his contract and his age but, only if he continues to perform like he has for a very short period of time. Hopefully he does.

I respect your thoughts and useful comments regarding this team.

What do you think about having a very valuable player to trade that we picked up for essentially nothing?

Is that not a strategy that Monte should consider?

Last edited 1 month ago by Sara Janelle Trampe
Adamsite
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September 4, 2024 8:20 am

You are correct, I did want a PF, but that was because Keegan was the best option at SF, up until the DDR trade. Keegan to me has always been a PF/SF combo. I’d argue that most forwards in the league are this way. Denver has a pair of them, as does Orlando, and many other teams.

Had Monte traded away Barnes for a guy like John Collins or Kuzma, then sure, slot Keegan in as the SF. The issue is, he didn’t. He went in on DDR. At this stage in his career DDR is clearly not a perimeter player to slot in next to Fox. As player age, they get bigger, stronger, and slower. Keegan will as well, which is why I’m fine with him playing either PF or SF.

Unless Monte can swing a trade for an all-defensive true PF, like a JJJ in Memphis, then the justification of sliding Keegan to SF and DDR to SG is off. Moving DDR at SG hurts the team tremendously at the POA and, IMO, would negate any marginal defensive upgrade at PF in place of Keegan.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 4, 2024 9:05 am
Reply to  Adamsite

The concept of obtaining a player for next to nothing, that player establishing themselves in the NBA, and then having that player to trade for an asset that specifically helps the team is a good thing.

Do you think that is something Monte should be thinking about when always going with a guard as the best player available?

Maybe Carter becomes a trade asset as well?

Maximus
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September 4, 2024 9:29 am

In general, you have to match salary when trading. Keon only makes 2M which is really small. Guys that make around 2M are either rookies or guys on minimum contracts. Rookies that have size and high impact are untouchable.

The best way to trade Keon is really to give him lots of minutes this year so he can develop. Then give him a big salary bump at the end of the year and then trade him.

Otherwise, Huerter is the best trade chip this year. He has a nice medium size contract. For example you can trade Huerter straight up for Isaiah Steward. You can’t do Keon for Isaiah Steward because the trade rules do not allow it.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 4, 2024 10:25 am
Reply to  Maximus

You can trade a young gifted player for a young gifted player that plays a position your team needs.

I understand you cannot trade Keon for Embid.

Other teams have also picked up young talented players and need a different player. Like a team that has a young but good power forward playing behind a much better power forward but needs a guard like Keon.

Having Keon is a great. He can produce or be traded for another player of value. The point of building a roster is to have a roster full of good players that battle for playing time or can be traded. Having a roster without any competition for playing time and no other team valuing the players in a trade is bad.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sara Janelle Trampe
Maximus
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September 4, 2024 10:37 am

I understand you cannot trade Keon for Embid.

Is Embiid not young or is he not as gifted as Keon? You have to explain a bit further to show why you understand it cannot happen.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 4, 2024 10:44 am
Reply to  Maximus

I think it is obvious.

Do you think you Embid for Keon works?

We should do that deal.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sara Janelle Trampe
Maximus
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September 4, 2024 11:04 am

Yeah man, the more you learn, the better discourse you can have with other people.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 4, 2024 11:14 am
Reply to  Maximus

So Embid for Keon then?

That trade definitely checks all of the boxes. Salaries do not matter at all.

Maximus
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September 4, 2024 11:34 am

Salaries do matter in trades.

You should start researching these salary cap rules. You have spent a lot of time on this forum. Might as well spend some time to get much better grasp on these stuff.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 4, 2024 2:21 pm
Reply to  Maximus

I have never heard that salaries matter in a trade.

Is that why we cannot trade Keon for Embid?

This is a paradigm shift. These stuff matters.

Can a team combine salaries to make a deal work?

Why is the salary cap not infinite?

Looking forward to your tutelage. My life has been a wreck up until this point.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sara Janelle Trampe
Maximus
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September 4, 2024 1:40 pm

You have the basic understanding of team building. So you understand why we been coming up with trade scenarios of Huerter for a decent forward.

Huerter for Beef Stew.
Huerter for DFS.

OK, let me know which forward you like and I will come up with trade scenarios for you.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 4, 2024 2:20 pm
Reply to  Maximus

I want a talented above average forward. There are many.

I prefer Jack run the trade the scenarios. That is his expertise.

Maximus
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September 4, 2024 9:03 pm

You sure? Jack would never trade Keon though.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 4, 2024 10:04 pm
Reply to  Maximus

Jack is awesome. Jack found some totally obscure and unreal trade scenario saying the Bucks want to trade Portis for Ellis. I appreciate his understanding of players being traded to move a team in a better direction.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sara Janelle Trampe
andy_sims
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September 4, 2024 10:05 am

Haha, when the best defender on your team is “redundant.”

RikSmits
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September 4, 2024 10:26 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Well, that best defender seemed sort of redundant in the eyes of the coach until Huerter went down…

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 4, 2024 10:30 am
Reply to  RikSmits

One player that can defend while the rest of the team does not. Seems like that forces a coach to play offense to out score a team that nobody will defend.

Maximus
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September 4, 2024 10:44 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Huerter and Keon have similar impact, except one for defense and one for offense. The one that should have played less is Davion.

But they were showcasing Davion so they could not lessen his minutes.

RikSmits
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September 4, 2024 10:48 am
Reply to  Maximus

You’re in a middle of a dogfight for playoff/play-in position and you are busy showcasing a bench player?
I find that hard to believe.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 4, 2024 11:01 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Don’t forget that according to everyone here we easily beat GSW in that game if Brown left Davion in to defend Curry.

Curry would only score 47 against him and the Kings would have scored 70 as a team with Davion playing a whole game.

Maximus
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September 4, 2024 11:07 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Not “busy”, more like “conveniently”

andy_sims
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September 4, 2024 12:23 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Take it up with Mike Brown, it has nothing to do with me.

murraytant
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September 3, 2024 10:58 pm

But I love my Keon.
best contract in the league

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 11:45 pm
Reply to  murraytant

Monte did well with him.

TheGrantNapear
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September 3, 2024 11:30 pm

A roster in need of defense should not trade it’s best defender.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 3, 2024 11:47 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Where is Davion?

An equal to or better than defender or defenders cannot be returned in a deal?

What about a defensively gifted four?

Maximus
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September 4, 2024 12:04 am

Except Davion was just an ok defender last year. He is a one trick pony on defense. Can only check ball handlers. Bad at switching. Bad at contesting 3s.

Adamsite
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September 4, 2024 8:26 am
Reply to  Maximus

This. Keon is deceptively long, with nearly a 6’9″ wingspan, that can disrupt passing lanes and contest shots. Those are things Davion could never do. The kid was 2nd in blocked shots that final two months of the season…including 5 in the two play-in games.

Hobby916
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September 4, 2024 9:19 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Davion has a reputation as a good defender, but there are no numbers to back that up. Add in that he is small for the position and has no switchability, he needed to go.

As you said, Keon has a good wingspan and can guard some of the bigger 2s that Fox can’t or shouldn’t.

Jack
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September 4, 2024 7:05 am

OK Keon for Markannen. No other.

Sara Janelle Trampe
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September 4, 2024 11:05 am
Reply to  Jack

Sad to see Keon in that fantasy deal but the team definitely got better.

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