A very ugly loss against the Spurs. Full recap to follow. For now, vent away.
Postgame Thread: Spurs 116, Kings 96
A very ugly outing.
By Greg Wissinger | 59 Comments | Nov 11, 2024
Nov 11, 2024; San Antonio, Texas, USA; San Antonio Spurs forward Keldon Johnson (0) dunks during the first half against the Sacramento Kings at Frost Bank Center. Mandatory Credit: Scott Wachter-Imagn Images
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Seems bad to be awful at both shooting 3s and defending against them, idk.
Ya think? I’m assuming the smelly dudes planted at any local sports book have figured this one out.
As a Fanduel player, I tend to pick shooters playing against the Kings. There are just so many options each game, it’s hard getting the one that will have a great night from 3.
Now we’re past the 10 game mark, can we panic?
It will get moved to 20 games, because of the injury. Then allow for another few weeks for Monk to get back in to the flow.
So maybe by Christmas we would be allowed to raise legitimate concerns.
I usually like listening to James Ham and podcast crew, but he has been overly apologetic this season for the poor play. It’s just a hard listen now.
I have to take frequent long breaks from Ham. He rarely looks at reality.
They are just bad at defending the three. We were bad last year too. They might get passable at making the 3, say 35%, but they just don’t have good 3 point shooters. Fox is ok but his hand is messed up. Heurter is good, maybe. Can’t tell yet. Kings general ineptitude at making 3s has carried over to McDermott. Lyles is ok. Keon is ok. Monk is ok. I’m just not seeing any room for big improvement,
As of today, does this Kings team make the playoffs in the West?
If yes, please explain how?
If no, what needs to change?
They may if they stay relatively healthy while the rest of the West is riddled with injuries.
I believe that was a big contributing factor the year we got the 3rd seed, and we kind of ignored it in our enthusiasm.
This team’s absolute ceiling looks like a second-round exit to me. I hope I am wrong.
So is the one playoff appearance an anomaly in an otherwise record level of sub mediocrity?
Somewhat, perhaps? I mean, the team is clearly better than the 28-53 teams. But how much better?
I think it is closer to the 9th seed and a play-in loss than to a 3rd seed and a playoff run. And I wonder if the DDR acquisition really moves the needle by much.
What do you think?
I’m leaning the same way.
I had (still have) high hopes the DDR signing, but am now seeing some glaring issues. The 3pt discrepancy on offense vs defense is currently unsurmountable. If things continue on this path, they won’t even be a .500 ball club by the trade deadline.
As long as they can’t defend or shoot the 3? They are cooked. Play in and out. And in the offseason. They will be stuck with this team next year. Unless they move a core piece or 2.
Realistically,this team is not competing for a championship. Any time soon.
Competing for a chanpionship? Competing for a championship? You’ve got to be kidding.Things have to change drastically or this team isn’t going anywhere. They can’t defend especially the 3. They can’t shoot the 3. They have zero cofidence in shooting the 3. They have one of the weakess benches in the NBA. Competing for a championship? You’ve got to be kidding.
Second Round? What healthy Top 6 west team are they beating? Be realistic. This team has not beat a single good opponent. Not one. Unless you count the Suns with no Durant or Nurk.
Try first round as a ceiling. I have seen nothing that tells me they can even beat a playoff contender in the regular season. Because they haven’t.
They are 0-3 against .500 and above teams.
From my eyes they don’t have 1 real quality win. Sorry. A below .500 Heat win is not quality.
This team will lose in the play in again.
Front office is not going to do much. They are going to play the chemistry game. If the Kings are 8-11 at the deadline. They will Kangz it again. Bring in some washed up big and or shooter past his prime.
They really don’t have tons of options . This is their core 4. Unless they plan to blow it up. This is what you will see.
But their is no way they are beating the likes of Okc, Minny, Dallas, Denver, Hou, or even The Dubs in a first round series.
ESP since they are ranked 27th in 3 pt D and 30th 3pt makes.
Also one of the weakest benches in the NBA.
I’d have it at 50/50. I think they make the play in. I do think we have some chance to win a series or 2 if we bolster the team at the deadline.
The coach and GM both need to improve. They’ve fallen off since the 22-23 season. Neither demonstrate sufficient creativity. Both seem set in their ways and unable to adapt.
If we don’t get out of the first round, I think you shop Fox and look to rework the team a bit, changing up 2-3 of the top 9 rotation players.
Win A series or 2? Lol! Please entertain me. Who are they beating in the top 6? If that said team is healthy. Elaborate. You’re bolstering the team with what? With what assets? What cap? Be realistic.
As of now we make the play in only because we score a bunch. We won’t beat any real contenders this way though.
We are one in grown toe nail or sprained pinky away from a ten or twelve game slide.
Agreed. If Sabonis or Keegan miss anytime, they are screwed. There is just no one to back those two up. The Kings may be able weather a Fox or DDR absence with the likes of Huerter, Monk, and Keon on the wings, but no one can help the frontcourt.
If Fox or DDR go down, this team will struggle mightily and probably be in the bottom 8 of the league. The depth is that bad, and the West is that good.
I just saw this stat:
Total Points from 3 this season:
Kings: 339
Opponents: 501
That’s a 163 Point difference through 11 games, good for a 14.7 average deficit per game.
https://x.com/will_zimmerle/status/1856175845599260996
Ha! just posted the same thing seconds later.
Everyone, please check out Will’s stuff on the socials.
This is an absolutely insane stat pulled by Wiil Z Stats (definitely worth a follow) on how the Kings have been killed by the 3. 163 points through 11 games so far.
https://x.com/will_zimmerle/status/1856175845599260996
Wouldn’t it be ironic if Keegan obliterated all the rookie records in 3 point shooting only to regress and never get near the .40 % mark again?
The sample size is growing…
I suspect that if you put him on just about any other team in the league his percentage surges back close to his rookie year. I suspect it’s something about the way this team is coached that’s causing the whole gang to shoot all crappy.
I think that is a convenient explanation, but I doubt it is a likely explanation.
Being free and having the green light to shoot boils down to making the shot or not; I doubt that coaching has much to do with it. Maybe fatigue; but it is early in the season, and they also shoot badly from the start of games when they are still fresh.
But what part of coaching would impact an individual player’s 3 point shot, in your view?
I’m guessing that Brown & the coaching staff have been instructing the players on getting to preferred locations for shooting, getting the shot up at particular moments during the play or after some amount of time has expired from the shot clock, and I’m also guessing that the coaching staff has been de-emphasizing the 3pt shot this year, perhaps as a nod toward DDR’s offensive game. All of these factors put together have the players thinking too much or hesitating when shooting the 3 rather than just naturally shooting. This all, again, is just a guess. My real reason for suspecting that the coaching is problematic is that the alternative explanation would be that these players just can’t shoot well and I don’t think that’s the case. We’ve seen in the past that these players can get really hot from 3. This isn’t just a slump – there seems to be something systematic going on that’s persistent over time and is affecting every player.
All of the attention is focused on missing threes and not defending the three. Both are important but not killing us. This team can score with or without the three.
Tonight our overall shooting percentage was not great and definitely worse than the Spurs. If we cannot hit the three stop relying on them. The Spurs had almost twice the number of assists we had. Again, if the three is not falling don’t jog up the floor and launch them before passing it. Run an offense. Shoot the high percentage shots and pass the ball to make a defense have to work. Launching threes is easy.
Rebound the ball. It is pretty simple. Possessions equals shots.
Defend the three and EVERYWHERE else on the floor.
I’m not sure what your angle is here, but the Spurs hit 22 3pt shots at 47% to the Kings 10 makes at 26%. Thats your ballgame.
For the record, the Spurs average 12.3 makes at 37% from 3 for the season. This ain’t rocket science.
My angle is if they rebound and play team basketball they will have a tendency to win. They have already won by doing this. The three point shot will come. That is going to happen. When they defend the entire floor they will defend the three.
The Kings biggest issue BY FAR is making and defending the 3. It’s not remotely close. They are defending effectively in other areas of the floor and making shots in other areas of the floor effectively. It’s literally the three point shooting and defending. That’s the whole ball game.
On one point, the Spurs had a ton of assists because they made all their 3’s because the Kings played horrific 3 point defense. It’s the 3’s on both ends that are dictating the outcome of wins and losses to an extreme degree for the Kings.
It’s hard to get assists when the team shoots like ass from 3.
I do question MB when you hear his post game comments and it’s some version of ‘We are getting good looks they will start falling’ or ‘We need to not hesitate and let it fly’ or ‘We need more threes’
I am wondering if he is living in the past a bit and thinking the shooting from two years ago was the real deal. The longer this continues I am thinking two years ago was an aberration.
As a coach at some point he needs to be real and question if this team can hit a high percentage of 3s consistently and if the answer is no he needs to adjust the amount of 3s they are taking. They can score other ways and rely on the three less.
Defending the threes is a bigger issue IMO because I see it as physical limitations (roster construction) and not scheme. Also, it is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy because if teams are scouting and about to play the Kings, their shooting confidence is high going into every game and licking their chops.
They need to play the game that is working. Derozan getting into the paint. Sabonis using his athleticism to score. If the threes are starting to fall for a player let him shoot.
Defense of the three is the same as any defense. The guards we have don’t play defense. Those guards also happen to on the perimeter where the three point line is.
Fox and Ellis do. Huerter has been better at defense this season (as you have noted many times). So that leaves Monk as the bad defender on the perimeter.
Leads me to believe that there is a scheme issue.
Monk is really bad. Huerter and DeRozan are slightly bad but they are trending up, especially in this kind of defense where there is a lot of defending the gaps.
Keegan is slipping though. Probably too much responsibility.
We might see Keon in the starting lineup to relieve defensive pressure from both Fox and Keegan.
One thing for sure, there is a lot of running is this scheme
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/speed-distance?Season=2024-25&dir=D&sort=DIST_FEET
Keegan sees a big jump in his distance travel. DeRozan as well but he came from a low paced team. Fox sees a not so insignificant jump.
Tired legs. Hard to hit a three like that.
Only way Fox can play is running.
Ellis plays D. Huerter has recently done well. Fox is one of the softest on the NBA. He gets a few steals but other than that his defense is streaky at best.
It is both.
Allowing a high number of 3s is scheme. Opponents shoot high percentage is personnel.
My recent comment on this, pertains to percentage more:
I think the 3pt defense is a result of lack of rim/paint protection and also due to a lack of length. They need to sag more than most teams because Sabonis (yes hard to believe but he does have a weakness) is not a great rim protector. And then when they close out on the 3pt shots the length/athleticism hurts them. A long quick 6′-9″ guy vs 6′-4″ guy closing on a jumper is a big difference. The lack of wings is key.
I agree.
In Brown’s 1st year, they chose to defend the 3pt line and yielded the mid range. And they got torched from the midrange and in the paint.
Without a rim protector, it is like pick your poison.
This is the worst three point shooting and defending Kings team I can remember in a long time. They are monumentally bad at both while being generally good at almost everything else. It’s a really strange recipe. This team still has a winning record but they won’t for much longer and will have zero shot if they somehow make the playoffs with this formula.
Well said, IMO it is a very oddball roster construction
It’s the passiveness of De’Aaron for me. The whole team is waiting to defer to him but he won’t step up and take the lead. And he’s admitted that’s just him, his personality. He made the statement about waiting to sign to see what the best opportunity is too. So he might leave anyway especially if we can’t get it together. And tbh it’s hard for me to see him as a max player when he won’t step up and really take the reigns of the team.
Then to top it off, the passsiveness of Keegan. Two starters with super passive personalities, I don’t think that works.
I have been hoping they trade Fox. Hou, Spurs, Miami, Pels. I see the Kings shopping him in the offseason. No way you’re going to pay this guy 70mil/5 years. That would be insane
This is a one and done play in team.
If you want to talk empty stats that’s the Kings.
3 very good regular season offensive players.
But not one of them. Not 1 is Option 1s on a contending team.
All true. Honestly I can’t blame fox this game. Fox is born to be a jrue holiday type of player like fox is going to win a championship one day on a stack team. The kings should empty the clip before it’s too late. Praying he demands a trade at the deadline.
Keegan is the guy that needs to step up. The kings players are actually looking at him and waiting for him to step up. Brown is legit leaving him on the court without derozan and fox. That’s your turn to put up shots don’t pass the ball to Kevin. You have a 6’5 shooting guard on you post him up. His dunks on fast breaks are soft. Brown needs to coach him harder one of them guys you have to piss off like pop. Actually brown needs to be the emotional leader since the kings don’t have one. The only guy he doesn’t need to motivate is Derozan.
lets give a round of applause to our GM who spent most of the picks on guards lol
ps: the season is still not over lol
Honestly it’s my hope that de’aaron takes responsibility as the true leader and also puts in the work to fix his ball handling issues. Really like most of us, I love DFox. He’s one of the most exciting players in the league, one the best athletes, clutch player, all that. Great character, family man, it’s beautiful watching him with his family, etc.
But a max player on a contender has to take control as the true leader and cannot be passive in any situation really. And ball handling has been the major issue holding him back from taking that next leap as a player for the last three seasons or so. He is the league’s fastest player and his dribble simply does not keep up with the speed of his movements. So he loses the ball. If he put in the work on his ball handling so his dribble could keep up with his movements, he’d be damn near unstoppable.
But if he’s unwilling to address those two issues, especially the leadership issue, I just don’t see how you can make him a max player. And don’t get me wrong, I would be so hurt and would hate to see him leave. But then we also have to be real, especially given the pending free agent issue too.
Kayte Christensen mentioned on the broadcast that a bad shooting team was shooting the lights out against the Kings. I assume she meant it in a “ah, bad luck” kind of way, but it really isn’t anymore. If you consistently give NBA teams open looks from three, they will shoot a high % (and hit plenty!).
Also, I felt really bad for Sabonis when I saw this:
I think that very close to a goaltending…but the refs will never look into it, because 1) It’s the Kings; 2) It’s Wemby, a league raising star…
We just never had fair treatment……..never……….
That’s not close to goaltending lol. That’s a ridiculous play by a dude who’s a complete freak of nature.
I worked a little late, the Kings played a little early, I have the games recorded.
I saw the score of this one just as I got home. I haven’t watched it, and won’t.
Sigh.
Was it RikSmits who coined:
Live by the 2, Die by the 3
Above .500, there is that.
Live by the 2, Die by the 3
I expect new Kings Herald merch with this slogan. It can go with my Kangz shirt.
Hey, then I want Sactown Royalties!
Fox and a protected 1st for trae young, who says no?
we need shooting desperately and fox/dd/monks games too similar, especially fox/dd
The hawks say no lol and the kings will never call to offer since they already have the kings protected picks ????and Trae is not the solution as well so I will say no
We’re going round and round but Keegan/Fox remain the problem and why this iteration of Kings is failing
the bench sucks but in ideal world we have 4 good players, but instead we have two.
keegans total lack of offensive progression is probably beyond fixing given his lack of personal depth
Fox is the erratic player who hasn’t consistently helped the team win save for two seasons (second year under Joerger, first under Brown)
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