If you didn’t watch this one, don’t. Full recap to follow.
Postgame Thread: Lakers 103, Kings 99
It's beginning to look a lot like the season is over.
By Tony Xypteras | 119 Comments | Dec 21, 2024
Dec 21, 2024; Sacramento, California, USA; Los Angeles Lakers forward LeBron James (23) and Sacramento Kings forward Keegan Murray (13) fight for possession of the ball during the first quarter at Golden 1 Center. Mandatory Credit: Ed Szczepanski-Imagn Images
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Glad they lost. Go ahead and lose them all. They don’t deserve to win a single game right now.
At this point Kings need to pivot to securing a top pick in the draft
Might as well just cancel the Beam this year. Better to plan on never turning it on vs. never turning it on due to never winning.
Everybody else out here playing chess, and the Kings are playing checkers.
Nah, checkers is too advanced for the Kings.
Tic-tac-toe?
Just flipping a coin and calling heads or tails. It’s the most basic. Tic-tac-toe has some decent strategy, Kangz would not understand.
“Take care of the details” is Mike Brown’s “Gotta check the tape”
Blow it up. Stupid plays after stupid plays. Fox miss, Domas doesn’t box out after 2 misses, Fox misses again. Literally don’t care at this point because the front office is tone deaf to common sense. Then I hear Fox talking about how he’s getting better – nope, he isn’t. His 3 point shot is gone and he still chucks up close to 7 threes a game. At this point, I’m good trading him off while we can still get a lot for him.
What’s definitely not getting better is Fox’s ball handling. That’s been the most glaring issue of his game. His dribble can’t keep up with his quickness and he just loses the ball for no reason several times a game.
Ligament damage to the pinky finger on your dominant hand can’t help.
True, but it’s been going on for 7 years now.
His TO% had declined significantly over the last four seasons, down to 10.1% last season. This season it has jumped back up to 13.3%.
That’s cool, the eyeball test says his ball handling has always been mediocre at best.
Point god CP3 is at 13.5% for his career and has only one season below 11% (10.8%)
Fox lost again.
So did the rest of the team
Yes. That is the point.
I’m sorry to be a bit slow here, but I’m not clear on the point you’re trying to make. Please clarify.
Fox is an individual achiever that does not lead a team to wins.
Fox scores Kings lose. The statistics are consistent for eight years.
You may be right, but I’m not sure that there’s a direct correlation. Perhaps you can provide support for your conclusions?
Kings win loss record for the last eight years with Fox. Fox’s average scoring over the last years.
No need to do the math. Everyone sees it.
So are you saying that the Kings would have had a better chance at winning today if Fox (who shot 70+% from the field) had stopped trying to score when the rest of the team was struggling to make baskets (around 38% from the field)?
I said that the Kings are not winning team with Fox as the centerpiece. I said that Fox is an individual contributor not a team leader or player.
His individual statistics are good.
But you also said, “Fox scores Kings lose. The statistics are consistent for eight years.”
I appreciate the conversation, but I think we may have taken it a bit past the point of any constructive return, so I’ll bow out.
Yes, Fox scores and Kings lose. That has happened for his entire career. He is a very good individual player.
I appreciate the conversation as well. I like Fox but I want this team to win.
100% Sell whole his value is highest.
3-4 first rounders are possible
I do see Foxes issues but I feel like The real issue is the organization and coaching he’s surrounded by.
Fox has gotten really good. Guarantee if he went to a good org he’d be perennial all star /some all NBA.
I don’t think this is a player thing. I think it’s a shitty organization thing- still trying to shake off Vivek’s tomfoolery
I agree he has been hurt in a number of ways by a bad organization. I do not agree that he is a perennial All Star at another organization. I believe that at another organization he is less of the player everyone makes him out to be here. Better players around him would help but that also means ISO Fox must end. I do not think his peers in the NBA see him as a true competitor.
All just my opinions and speculation. Facts are he is a good individual player that is fun to watch.
Not so sure that’s completely accurate.
Fox is more like Prime Brad Beal. But without all the playoff appearances. Before Beal started his injury tour.
Beal lead a significantly less talented Wizards team to multiple playoff appearances.
So, while you’re spot on about Vivek.
Fox is not Option 1 in a Contending team. No way.
That is probably right. And perhaps not perennial all star but all star- clutch performer-like ge was/becoming 2years ango. ala Jamal Murray maybe?
Point is- that potential would be realized with a better coach/org.
W Spurs etc…..
So is sabonis
so is derozan
so is monk
so is huerter
so is trey
lol none of these guys have been known ass winners and guys who show up in the playoffs
None of those players have spent their entire career having an organization coddle them build an entire team around them.
Actually HUERTER did in a game 7 against Philly to advance to Eastern Finals. 27 points .
So he has done more than Fox.
CP3 has won a whole bunch more games. He has even been to the playoffs a few times.
Also, raw turnover % doesn’t tell the whole story. I think we’ve been through that before.
I agree that it doesn’t tell the whole story, but certainly is affected by losing the ball several times a game.
How does the minutiae of Fox statistics add up to a win?
I was merely responding to BingBong’s comment about whether Fox’s ball handling has gotten better over the years. Winning is indeed a much bigger question.
I responded to your comment. Winning is not a much bigger question. Winning is the simplest of all questions.
Raw turnover percentage is not the end all be all of assessing ball handling. There are different types of turnovers. Im talking about the ones where he simply loses his dribble for no reason. We’ve been through this exact discussion before.
Yeah, I remember that discussion, and I still believe that he has worked on and improved his ball handling over the years. The drop off this season is definitely concerning.
The drop off, as been stated, is due to his finger injury. Period. Stop.
Fox told you. Thank you for letting the rest of us know.
Why would he lose his dribble for no reason and make poor decisions with the ball for several years now if it’s all because of the finger injury? Go back and watch game film from past seasons if you need to.
Funny thing is in 2k one of his dribble moves he also loses the handle on it after moving too quickly haha
Kings losses are always so gaddamn draining.
Same old story for 15 years.
Thoughts:
Those chucked 3’s by keegan and monk in the 4th shouldve been booed heavily. They were stupid and rushed especially when the kings had no flow in their offense during that stretch.
Fox down the stretch was painful to watch. Been his story all season. Push hard to get the comeback win but ultimatey fall short
Shooters cant hit 3’s. Our 4 main guys from that 1 glory year we had cant make no damn 3s. Keegan, huerter, monk and trey were having career years in 3pt % that year. They’ve fallen of a cliff since.
Refs. Man. That take foul. That outside call by the baseline official who had a view of Ads back. That slight push by hachi to back tap the ball.
Lastly, why foul a fadeaway by a big with 2 seconds left in the shotclock. Im looking at you, Monk. You bonehead.
Keegan has no dribble in his game. Hes easy to defend unless he makes that snatch dribble he loves. Other than that, just straight up guard him and you know his giving up the ball.
We’ve seen peak keegan murray, folks.
Go back to standing in that corner and wait for spray 3s,like your rookie year, you bust.
They tried making him an all around offensive player, and not just let him do what he was best at, shooting 3s.
He hasn’t hit the 3 this season, which makes him look really bad as a player. He also spends most of his minutes guarding various positions, which Jason to be somewhat taxing physically.
Doesn’t help that he has been consistently told to work on his defensive game. That actually has improved.
Bingo. And this is why Mike Brown is a bad coach. He tries fitting players into his system (which I guess he thinks is the best thing in the world) rather than Taylor his system to players strengths.
what he’s done with Keegan is egregious
again, using my Washington commander fan experience. This is exactly why Eric Bieniemy was horrible. His system-end of discussion.
Mike Brown coaches like Bienemy . And like Keegan, Terry McLaurin, under Bieniemy was held back but now we see what Terry McLaurin really is under a coach who works for his talent.
Rather than develop talent (Keegan’s and others), which is what Brown should be doing he’s suffocating it. Stubborn Mike Brown. Way to go coach
Same as last time. Get in a double digit hole early and struggle all night long. LA only had 103. Not like they were playing well. So tired of seeing Murray with no fire. Keep Sabonis, Monk, and Carter. Trade the rest for whatever you can get.
I want to see Keegan get angry once, just to see what it looks like. He just looks defeated and worn down most of the time.
His expression looks like the kid who gets bullied every day but tries to take the high road.
Reminds me of a dude in a dead end job he hates, with multiple bosses who tell him about the same mistake he made…Hopefully nobody takes his stapler and moves his locker to the basement.
He was supposedly so emotionally woke and disciplined like Tim Duncan, but I just see a kid that never grew up. Add it to a long list of failures by Kings scouts to get players with any mettle. There has been a systematic habit of always getting soft players in the first round.
agree
I attended Game 1 playoffs, I thought that was the start of something beautiful. Who knew it might be the last one any of us will ever see in coming years.
If this organization managed to break Keegan in less than two seasons, that is truly impressive.
BIU!
I wonder if at any point in the season we will see the starting lineup that makes the most sense by pairing our best 3nD player with fox…
Ellis started 2 games, I think.
I think it’s Keon time. Monk off the bench, like the end of last year.
The last of the 4th and no Keon Ellis. Instead Huerter who makes one or two plays and then lets his player drive past him every time. So you score 10 but your player you are defending scores 18. Go figure. Brown doesn’t know how or who to substitute but instead in the last 4 or 5 minutes in a game like this when it counts guess who’s sitting on the bench? Ellis. The other player that does one or two good plays but lets the guy he is defending drive past him time and time again? You guessed it Demar Derozan. At this time this year the Kings are not winners but losers. If the Kings stay pat the rest of the year they won’t make 40 wins, probably 39.
see above comments
You are an optimist
starting 5 went down 15-7 before the first sub. same every game.
MB’s timeout game is trash.
it’s bureaucratic
Trade them all! Roll the Tank!
I only saw the 4th quarter. Why did Keon only play 14 minutes?
That was a very ugly offensive quarter with so many missed 3s and poor rebounding effort.
Because we need to showcase Heurter’s 1 for 7 three-pt shooting prowess
Bro got his paycheck again making 1/7 3’s and playing bad defense. I saw multiple plays where lebron would hunt him on a switch. Because ol 40 year old lebron has more burst, speed and lateral movement than our shooting guard. What a joke of a player kevin is.
Smart on Lebron to immediately recgonize our weakest defender and hunt him on switches.
I keep hearing “get Fox some help”. How about get Sabonis some help. He is the main dude that busts his ass all game and he is out there with a bunch of lazy players.
Man this is the best take I’ve seen in awhile. Agree 1000 percent. I’ve seen about enough of the fox led kings but the only sadness if they deal him is they probably deal Domas too. And I love him as a player
Domas is on a long term deal and a dominant player in the NBA. He won’t be dealt away. He is a player that can be built around.
I hope you’re right
Agree, love watching hard working unselfish talented competitors and Domas is that and more .
Build around what? Sabonis is in his ninth season. Not first or second.
His weaknesses are grossly exposed in a playoff setting. He averages 12-7 in 5 playoff appearances.
He’s a great regular season player. To say he’s a first or second option on a contending team?. He’s not. I know that and the rest of the league knows this.
Don’t get me wrong. But he does not have the capacity to put a team on his back? ’Especially when the rest of the team is falling apart. That’s what clearly separates him from Jokic,’Ad and even Embiid.
Stats or Impact? I’ll take the later. Not saying the Kings are loaded with stat fillers. Or Am I?
The Lakers are at best a play in team. They played 2 poor offensive games. But their defensive effort both games against the Number 5 offense was gritty and impressive.
And to watch a 40 hr old man rise up and slam it down against 3 Kings defenders. With Monk falling on his azz was both pathetic and riotous.
Please explain who the Kings could get that’s better . Jokic isn’t coming and Embiid doesn’t play much anymore . Domas is a perfect 3rd on a contender and his skill and unselfishness would fit with any cast .
Strange way to look at things. So we shouldn’t trade Fox than either because who can we get that’s better.
This core is going nowhere, the roster needs a major reset and that includes Fox and Ox.
Exactly. It’s weird how fans think after a decade in the league, Domas is going to turn into a playoff winner.
Those who cover the nba without bias always point out Domas’ glaring weaknesses that inhibit him from being who he is in the reg season in the playoffs, but fan boy King’s fans are somehow right.
you want to build around sabonis? lol you trade fox and You trade him. Sabonis is not Jokić some of you guys think he is. Good player but should be like the third or 4th best player.
sabonis Only shoot the ball like 13 times a game & only get to the line a few times. He needs to shoot more and Get to the free throw line and make them for this team to actually be good.
Did I say he was Jokic?
Name all the better centers . Short list and none available . Guess shooting % of 63, 42, 81 not good enough . Led league in rebounding two seasons and in top 3 for last 5, also 2nd in assists for centers . Actually getting 20 points on 13 shots makes him more productive than even Jokic .
Everyone can see what is wrong with this team. Time for some big changes. If Joe Lacob owned the Kings, there would be security denying people entry into the building and seizing their work iPhones.
Vivek should quietly look for an interim President of Basketball operations (Myers?), tasked with selecting an interim coach to replace Brown, while he looks for his permanent replacement and a new GM who will hire their own head coach.
A complete rebuild of this franchise is required, the rot goes way beyond the players, the coach and the GM.
The hope is Fox begs to leave. The only hope. Otherwise. Vivek will do the same song and dance he does every year. Let’s sign A Finney smith or Kuzma and pray that gets us out of the play in.
The hamster on the wheel.
I didn’t bother watching, but did Fox hug the entire lakers roster after the game like he usually does after every loss? Can’t wait to hear him on the next Laker’s podcast.
Yup. King of false pride.
Fox called out the team’s “lack of enjoyment.” I don’t think enjoyment of losses is quite the answer either.
There is a reason why Fox is not All NBA, not an All Star, and not on the national team.
Hard to enjoy the game when losses pile up, there seems to be issues between players and coaching staff, minutes are highly inconsistent, players get benched for games at a time for doing…something wrong, your franchise guy is more focused in his shoe and doing podcasts and looking for his next deal, etc, etc.
I have a distinct lack of enjoyment.
It’s been a challenging season as a fan watching Basketball Hell.
When you’re tanking but not actually trying to, you just look like a stupid organization. Vivek, for all concern over image, undoubtedly(?) realizes how stupid he looks to the rest of the NBA (and the MLB, lol).
Vivek doesn’t strike me as very self-aware.
Just trade away those guys who don’t give 100% efforts……….i.e. except Keon and Issac and O_Rob………
I keep mulling over the Fox situation.
Despite all the framing and careful wording, the recent statements by Fox and actions by Rich Paul are meant to accomplish one thing and one thing only: to get Fox the Supermax.
Do I begrudge Fox that? No, of course not.
Do I think that Fox does not like it here in Sacramento? I am sure he does and I am sure there is sincerity in his statements that he wants to win here. But there is a “but” to that. And that “but” is that Fox is mainly interested in getting an All-NBA selection.
In the fall of 2022, Fox left his longtime agent Chris Gastoin and signed with Klutch Sports and Rich Paul. You don’t do that if you are focusing on staying with your current team and if you see money as a secondary matter.
He didn’t extend his contract earlier, which everyone recognized as a logical move because he had a shot at the Supermax.
If the Kings are not good enough, Fox has a lesser chance at getting an All-NBA nod and therefore the Supermax.
So what do Fox and Klutch want from Monte? To empty out the asset cupboard and get players that can help immediately so Fox can have a good shot at All-NBA. Their main focus lies not with the longterm plan for the Kings, the ability to maintain flexibility and outlook to be an actual contender for a title. Which from their perspective is totally understandable.
But that is the exact reason why Monte should trade Fox. Because it is very likely that if we empty the cupboard for win-now players (veterans), in a few years time we will be stuck with bad, untradeable contracts and very little flexibility and chances for improvement.
We all know that offering Huerter, Lyles and some dross will not get us a guy who will sufficiently move the needle. You may have to add Keegan and a pick, or more. Rich Paul is smart enough to know that Grant and Kuzma won’t improve this team a lot.
But worse, if we sent Keegan and multiple picks away for a good player that fills most holes (a volume 3 and D, while also providing weakside shotblocking unicorn), will that be enough? People here keep saying that it takes time to integrate DDR into the team. Why would that be different with another high quality player?
If the next steps by Monte are not satisfying Paul, he may leak a list of teams that he wants Fox traded to. Teams that can help Fox get that All-NBA selection. And that will likely surpress Fox’s trade value.
And finally, say that you manage to trade for an impact player and convince Fox to stay here? What’s next? Do you really think that a team with Fox as your number 1 guy and with very few future assets is good enough to get you a title? To contend for a WC finals?
The chances of success in this situation are so slim.
I agree with what you said, we got lucky that Fox did not sign extension in summer and also agree that Monte should trade Fox now…..his value is high now…
Get a young player and mulitple draft picks as return……like Castle…
Start a proper rebuild,,,
roll the dice on Castle and Carter to be the future backcourt…
If Monte doesn’t do anything that moves the needle for the franchise and basically stays pat what will that do in the long run or even for this year? Trading for older players will not help at all just leaves you with nothing. Trading for fringe players leaves you with nothing. IMO Monte needs to realize that winning a championship or even getting to the playoffs let alone a play-in is not realistic with this team as it is. He traded for Derozan who is supposed to be a clutch player and has done nothing to prove that other than play poor defense. Sure he scores a lot in 3 and a half quarters but has shown nothing winning when it really counts.
I love Murray and his defense but as of now has shown little on the offensive end. He is a starter and is supposed to be a major contributor on the offensive end.
Sabonis is a great player and has at least a double double every night but hasn’t shown his ability to make the plays that wins games in the tight situations. One thing that bothers me to no end is he is always bringing the ball up the floor on fast pace plays. There are players ahead of him on those breaks. Why can’t he throw the ball to one of those so they can make plays. When he does this we rarely get an easy bucket but fall back into our offensive sets.
Monk is our most energy guy on the team and does a lot to get us going but seems to turn the ball over this year at the worst times.
If we don’t do some MAJOR changes with this lineup we are only going to be a patsy for those teams that have passes us by. It might take until next year to do that but at 81 years old I still can wait that long. GO KINGS!
I lie that all. Spurs have 4 first rounders in the next draft. Castle,’Vassell and 3 picks should do it.
Castle,K. Johnson, Sochan and 3 picks. Spurs aren’t trading Vassell.
I’m curious to know who Fox and his agent think the Kings need to add to be serious contenders.
My guess is that Rich Paul has brought up some names or types of players to Monte and Wes.
I mean, if you are talking about an impactful helpside defender/shotblocker who can also space the floor, you’re basically needing a healthy Porzingis or Jaren Jackson Jr. (you really have to wonder why Domas together with Myles Turner didn’t work).
Good luck, to quote Chris Webber.
What I keep coming back to is IF the 3pt volume shooters actually were hitting 3s, much of the conversations about upgrading the roster/blowing it up probably wouldn’t be a thing.
But, we have to work in reality. They aren’t hitting their 3s, and through 25-30 games this season, they haven’t shown that they are capable to start doing that.
That’s the frustrating part for me.
Indeed, we have to work in reality.
I see these arguments a lot on social media. Another favorite; if we had won half of the games decided by 5 points or less, we’d be in the thick of the play-off race.
Guess what; we haven’t and we’re not.
But with these things (3P% and clutch performance), I keep thinking how we’d do in a play-off environment.
I keep thinking back to the NBA Cup game between OKC and Houston and the physicallity and intensity on defense. The Kings would be swallowed whole in such an environment, and would struggle to shoot 20% from 3, IMO.
To your last point, most of the Kings team was overwhelmed by the physicality in the playoffs vs the Warriors. You saw guys like Heurter and Barnes shrink away from the moment.
It’s why I can’t figure out why this front office has been so insistent on running it back with the same core. They’ve already showed you who they are.
Agreed.
Supermax or Supersave?
Epic AI pic ????
Vivek’s hand needs immediate medical attention.
Too many shaka signs together with B-star celebrities will do that.
The reality is the Kings have very limited assets. Lyles, Huerter, Jones. Huerter is virtually untradeable. No team want an 18 mil sieve on D who can no longer shoot.
If you want to move Ellis, Keeg, and picks that will get you something decent. Will it help this team get into the Top 6 in the West? I don’t think so.
Will it improve their chances of being a playoff team getting out of the first round. Maybe. Probably not.
This team is so predictable come deadline.
Fox signing a super max with the Kings will probably set this team back another 4-5 years. I just don’t think Fox is a leader on a contending team. Hes definitely a second option.Thats why teams like the Spurs,‘Rockets and Magic look like great teams to trade him to.
Kings core 2 main players will be going in to their 10th and 9th seasons next year.
That’s what you’re building around?
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