The Kings Herald Show returns with Jerry Reynolds, Will Griffith, and Tony Xypteras to break down the big De’Aaron Fox trade, and everything else the Sacramento Kings accomplished (and didn’t accomplish) at the deadline this year.
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Regarding the “best return” for Fox discussion, It was reported that the Kings took many calls (I think the phrasing was “dozens”, by the media). Maybe the Spurs offer was the actual best offer that they received?
We probably won’t ever know what the other offers, so it’s difficult to actually know.
Good stuff, guys. Always a great listen…and Jerry, you finally got Jonas on the Kings!
There could have been dozens of calls, but I’d imagine those offers were pulled once Klutch Sports made it known that San Antonio was the “preferred destination.” Why would any of the 28 other teams trade for Fox if his camp made it known they wouldn’t sign an extension there?
From all that, I highly doubt the Spurs offer was the best offer, but it was the only one there at the end.
Yeah, plenty of blame for the FO, but the clear message about San Antonio by Fox’s camp obviously depresed his value.
Add to that the fact that Kings fans overrate their own players and Fox is no more than a quarter a half-dozen kind of guard, I’m not so surprised at the (lack of) return.
I agree. The FO must have known that firing Brown would have resulted in Fox wanting out, which was basically said during the Brown extension talks. They should have had contingency trades in place at that time. Keep it quiet like Dallas and LA did.
The only reason that was kept quiet was because Dallas wasn’t shopping Luka, and no-one had a clue that he might be on the market, which was a unique situation.
“He’ll knock your dick in the dirt!”
I haven’t listened yet, but did Jerry say that “he’s got a little shitbird in him”?
Love that stuff.
Darnit, he didn’t. He did use “tough buckaroo”, though.
He did say it. Full quote at 26:47 “He’s a tough buckaroo, He’ll knock your dick in the dirt.” I listened on Spotify. Maybe they censored your feed.
Sorry, i meant that he didn’t use the shitbird moniker. The dick in the dirt comment was there and made me smile.
Ah, I don’t know that reference.
100%. This deal looks to be brokered by Klutch. They got DeAaron where he wanted in the best possible financial situation for himself and to keep the bulk of quality assets to build with around him.
My opinion. Miami and Orlando and Houston could have put together some very competitive offers if the negotiations were juat between the 2 front offices. But that third party with Klutch brokers this outcome. No doubt about it in my mind.
Knowing that. Kings actually did okay because I see LaVine being a strong candidate for getting mover again in the next 1 to 1.5 years.
Regarding the future of this roster, mainly looking at the offseason, I don’t see a path of improvement unless they move Monk/Lavine/DDR. They will be at $161.7m in salaries next season. Lyles is not under contract, neither is LaRavia, and those spots need to be filled or they need to be retained.
They have a good chance of not retaining their 2025 draft pick, so that is an asset they won’t have access to, potentially. Maybe Carter can become more comfortable on the court and develop his PG skills, because this team needs another offensive organizer.
Kings have not usually been on the good side of a trade. They seem to get fleeced more often than not. I suppose if I were an opposing GM, I would make the offers ridiculously low; knowing that the team settles for lowball offers (in my opinion).
I do agree with Nemanja_Business above- Kings did just fine for a return, knowing they were all but forced to trade with San Antonio – who knew they would be getting Fox and 99% sure they will resign him. But doing just fine still has me salty for not grabbing one of either the Spurs Pick or the Atlanta pick or even Castle/Vassell.
Enjoyed Jerry’s thoughts on Christi using the Carril ( corner series ) to get more cutting and movement . Also, as Tony/Jerry pointed out the roster is now more talented but still haven’t addressed biggest need plus added a need ( back up point guard ). Good points as usual .
good podcast as always! had to go into the trade and all that, I get it, but I particularly liked the suggestions for what they can do now, ways they can utilize Sabonis and Jonas, Lavine’s timing on screens, etc.
just wondering, how would everyone feel if the Kings went to the playoffs and won a series? When mentioning possible outcomes, no-one considers this possibility.
I think winning a series would be a step in the right direction. Maybe that is their ceiling, but it shows that something is working correctly and gives more to build from.
Yeah, I also want to see the best version of these Kings players, and having a goal like that can help.
More to build from? – that also. The franchise was able to sign DeRozan in the offseason. A player at that level who wants to win would not have signed if he didn’t think the team was competitive. Keep the rep and they might be able to land additional players in the offseason.
That’s the hope. Win these next two, then come out of the all-star break on fire.
If we get the 6th seed, I’d remove the interim label win or lose.
We end up in the play-in, I think we need to win into the playoffs.
Winning a series will be tough, have to beat one of OKC, Mem, Den.
I’d be happy if we can bounce around the 3-6 seed for a few seasons even if we can’t exceed that with this build. Problem is I think we’re more likely to be bouncing around the 8-12 range.
Winning a series was always my baseline for succes, and still is. Difficult to see, though.
Winning a playoff series would be pretty impressive, but I don’t really spend much time thinking about it as a possibility because this team has yet to show that as something worth realistically spending time thinking about. It’s early, players are still finding their rhythm together, and they could look better after the break, but right now they’re struggling to put away bad teams. Right now I don’t watch this team play basketball and think they’d be likely to beat a top 4 seed four times in a series.
Did you have that sentiment before the trades?
I know I did. The bench adds + Lavine make the team slightly better IMO. Making the play-in was the ceiling with Fox. Not sure how we could justify paying him $55mm. If he was close to on par with SAG or Luka, sure, but he’s so much less than those elite players…. We had to move on.
Lavine is also on a shorter and cheaper contract (once Fox gets his extension), and that aligns with the length of DDR’s contract as well. If things don’t work out, they can pivot in 2 years.
Yeah was definitely flawed even before trading Fox, but it seems more flawed to me now. Before they decided to trade Fox, I was still clamoring for them to improve the roster, to balance it, to add size and depth.
And while it’s simplistic to say this (because of salary cap, etc), it kills me that they added a legit backup center and a legit backup wing only AFTER trading Fox. All I ever wanted was for them to make those types of moves to see if the Fox/Domas pairing could really work with proper support.
So I was not high on their chances at reaching the second round if they’d stood pat at the deadline, but I am lower now on those chances than I was before.
Understandable. I am curious why they didn’t make those trades earlier. Maybe once Brown was fired they were waiting for the Fox situation to get figured out to see if he wanted to leave, and what pieces they would get in return?
I think that gives the FO too much credit.
I don’t know much about anything as I’m just a simple Kings fan, but isn’t it quite evident that the Kings need to pick up a veteran true PG (i.e., a Brogdon type) if they are to be serious about contending?
Brogdon is not a true point guard.
I think the Kings desperately need a real point guard if they have serious aspirations for this season. With Ben Simmons gone, my top choice would be Dennis Smith Jr.
It was painful in that Dallas game watching how nobody on the roster could make an entry pass to Domas to take advantage of his size mismatches inside. Monk is a good passer, underrated by most outside Sacramento, but it seems he was overrated by the FO and some fans. He can’t be the primary ball handler for the whole game with no backup.
One of the reasons the two big lineup looked so good in that game was that it brough Domas out of the paint and the ball moved through him more. He’s one of the best passers on the team, especially now, but Sacramento has not been using him in the high post as much. It’s an adjustment I’d like to see Doug make, to have Domas up high with the ball in hand, especially when LaVine is on the floor as a cutting and lob threat.
I think they thought the “PG” hole could be aggregated by having Lavine and DDR bring the ball up court and using the minimal PG skills they have. It hasn’t worked…
Domas does need to be involved more as an initiator. That has been true all season.
Yeah, that shift goes back to the start of the season. Not really sure why the Kings have moved away from it, even before they got rid of Brown.
They absolutely need another guard to help with ball handling — I have to assume that FO thinks that Carter can be that player.
But Domas is their best playmaker, so let him do more of it — Fox was okay on that front, but that was another limitation in his game (like Monk) …. Was never going to be a Kidd or Stockton or Nash type PG, so we had 2 score-first hybrid 1/2’s at 6’3” who also aren’t great defensively. Very narrow path to glory with that type of backcourt & roster composition.
There are many ways to win (and lose).
Champs (Boston) have Jrue. Champ Warriors had HoF level Steph. Denver had Jokic/Jamal Murray. OKC is winning with SGA.
That, to me, is a smorgasbord of quarterbacking. You play to your strengths, and patch your weaknesses.
Domas the Point Center seems out of sorts with the new crew. Averaging a reasonable 4 assists/game in place of his previous Top 5 level Beam, Top 10 last season levels.
Agreed — and now they have talent at every including a true SG in Lavine who can shoot the 3 and attack the rim. Lineup is as good as it’s been since 2003 so we gotta do best we can with what we have.
For all the focus on what Fox wasn’t, I think it’s easy to lose sight of what he was. He wasn’t a “pure PG” like a Kidd/Stockton/Nash, but most teams don’t have that kind of PG in the modern NBA anyway. Fox was a willing and capable passer, even if he wasn’t the type of passer with flashy highlights and racking up assists.
Small sample size and all, but Fox is averaging 8.5 assists per game in San Antonio. The talent of your teammates and their ability to make shots is a factor in those stats, and stat numbers are naturally going to be lower when sharing the floor with an assist-heavy big man like Sabonis. Jamal Murray’s assist numbers are very similar to Fox’s this season. Similar team concept, similar passing from the PG. That was the path to glory, to follow the Denver model of surrounding your star Center and star point guard with defenders and shooters, the Kings just never did that.
Fox may not have been the idealized point guard some people wanted him to be, but he’s a much better point guard than anyone currently on the Kings roster.
I b always liked Fox and still do, but if you’re going to pay him to be your best player, he needs to be more than the 12th or 14th best PG in league to give team a competitive advantage— if the point is that he needed 1 more All Star talent beside him on top of Sabonis, then we’re saying he’s a good #2 if you give him the right roster ….. players better than HB, DDR, Murray, Monk.
Thst becomes even harder if you’re paying Fox $55mm or more …. Which is hard to justify if you’re a 500 squad with him and Sabonis leading the way.
spurs are great fit because he comes in as the #2 guy and he’ll likely get pushed to 3 by Castle in a year or two — gets to be Tony Parker rather than Steph Curry.
Not sure Dennis Smith is a pg either. He’s definitely not a true pg.
Yeah, “one game at a time”.
however, if we’re thinking of possible outcomes this season, (which seemingly comes up on every thread) that’s one of them.
It’s one of them, sure. That doesn’t mean it warrants discussion with the same frequency. The Kings could go undefeated the rest of the season. That’s a possible outcome. Doesn’t mean we need to discuss it in the same breath as the possibility that this team is Play-In at best.
Until I mentioned it, it was being discussed at zero frequency.
Which is the correct frequency until this team starts playing in a way that makes that outcome seem more realistic.
wowsers
So far, probably the same as most on here I have been underwhelmed by the play post trades. It looks disjointed and off for the most part.
I have seen some signs of encouragement. A fast burst and dunk by LaVine here or there, a quarter where it looks much sharper once in a while. Keegan getting aggressive for a short stretch. An opponent driving into the lane and running into a Jonas V brick wall.
All of these are inconsistent at the moment. With more time I think it will look better.
A big key that I think will open everything up is if LaVine starts hitting his 3s like he is capable.
And IMO the Lithuanian Twin Towers lineup has a ton of potential
That name is almost as long as the both of them combined. I’ll go with Baltic Brothers.
Jonasauras and the Ox
Towers of Power
We Came to Play!
Thunder and Lightning.
Roaring Cannons.
Glaive and Halberd.
Mace and Bludgeon.
Joust and Gauntlet.
I don’t know – was trying to go medieval themed.
Definitely nice to see a bit of size on the floor for the first time in forever.
For sure. This recent Kings have always been different versions of small ball. Now they have more options and can matchup with size better. And I would not want to be a defender navigating that screen maze of Domas and Jonas.
A Domas and JV double high screen, yikes. No thanks.
Add another 4 with good size who can defend the rim and we can flip from the Big lineup to a lineup full of quick 3PFG shooters — different looks versus same-old, same-old regardless of who’s on floor
Sounds like John Collins (to me). I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know trade rules or contracts but I don’t see LaVine as a long stay in Sac. Perhaps try to trade him in the offseason to Utah for Collins and ???. Just dreaming here in Key West.
I kind of think they plan to keep Lavine.Team has holes but they also have 5 starters who can blow up and score 30 any given night and carry team, plus a solid bench.
Let’s see if they make a push for 6 seed with this roster.
I too would have preferred to see Fox return a power forward and a back up center in the trade of the decade for this team. We ended up with a very good back up center eventually so that is awesome.
I do not see the point guard as a new problem with the roster. In many ways Fox was not a true point guard or ball distributor. It looks like he is playing the shooting guard spot in San Antonio and that could very well be the best spot for him on the floor. I think we have lacked a ball distributor and offensive leader for many years already.
Lavine coming to us in a trade feels the same as Christie being named coach. Lavine has been linked to the Kings trade talks for so long he feels like the nostalgic lore that has anchored this franchise in the past.
I don’t understand how anyone could argue that this team got better by trading their best player and asset for lesser players. Just because they finally have a backup at each position doesn’t mean they’re better, not to mention that the roster imbalance was a result of their own previous incompetence…and it still lacks balance as they went from a glut of ball-handling & playmaking to a severe loss of both.
This team is demonstrably worse with a lower ceiling and older roster than they had last year. Complete and utter failure by the FO.
If you disagree, go ahead drink and the Kool-aid, we can talk again once the Kings are watching the playoffs from home again this year.
Sabonis was and is the team’s best player. If he isn’t, the massive failure here is passing on Luka and trading Ty, as both are better PG and players than Fox.
when Kangz traded for Sabonis, many experts said that we traded the wrong guard. And they were right. Building around Sabonis, Haliburton and Murray would’ve been the winning ticket.
I agree 100% with Jerry’s quote in the header. Not only did you trade the best player in the deal, you re-upped at your deepest position without addressing your needs at the 3 and 4 (the LaRavia deal was not contingent on the Fox deal, and it may or may not solve anything for a myriad of reasons – more narrow needles to thread).
Ownership has been a fanboy of LaVine for several years, and they finally found a way to land him, vastly overpriced and redundant as he may be. Aside from Monk and Ellis, the Kings also have DeRozan, who could have easily slid to the 2 had the Kings picked up true talent the 3 and/or 4.
The Kings were under no obligation to trade Fox, and they were under no obligation to trade him to San Antonio. Given the unspectacular nature of the return, I would have walked away. There just is not much downside when you look at the true value of the return package. The Spurs picked up a top 25 player without parting with any of their core 8 or any of their more prized picks. Walk away from that shit.
Jimmy Butler was hell-bent on going to Phoenix. He wound up in Golden State. And he wound up in Golden State because Pat Riley is a dog whose tail will not be wagged. Our organization is filled with feckless heels that heel upon command. Klutch certainly wields some power across this league, but this was not an organizational knee that needed to be bended at this time.
I hope that I wind up being wrong about all of this, as I’d rather see this team succeed than fail. But what I see right now is a still unbalanced roster. Monk has had tougher sledding now that defenses are not keying on Fox. LaVine is a pretty good step backward from Fox. Fox could contribute even when he wasn’t hitting shots. For LaVine, it’s make your 3s or you’re a negative (neutral at best). JV is a nice addition, and hopefully LaRavia is as well – those would have been nice additions with Fox on the roster, by the way.
The naked truth is that the front office made a deal that it felt would best ensure its future employment. Hold out for more prospects and/or picks and don’t take LaVine’s bloated deal and you’re probably canned at the end of the year. This is the FO’s beggar’s shot, coated in owner-pleasing Zach. Given how this deal is structured, if the Kings don’t get to the playoffs this year, I would show the FO the door and bring someone in with the gravitas and standing to tell ownership to stay in its lane (Bob Myers). Because this ain’t working.
And as always, I remind everyone that I know nothing.
A lot of us fans wish you to be wrong but realize that the points made are 100% valid. Now must hope Coach Christi can get creative to make this unbalanced but talented roster over achieve . Wishing is about it !
You might be 100% right on many of these thoughts, but where we get off track is the narrative that Fox is a “top 25 player”, which isn’t really true — he’s a really good player who’s outside the top 25 and competing with a group of 25-50 players to be in that next group of really good players who aren’t superstars or elite.
Every year new players join the mix and some of those youngsters blow by our boy, like Cade Cunningham this year, Morant a couple years ago
I think he is, & players have passed him & he has passed players. But let’s carve it up another way if it helps. There are probably 20-25 players between Fox & LaVine. Factor in health & contract & the player/value difference is probably a lot greater than 20-25 players. And Fox filled a position of need while LaVine does not, further exacerbating the issue. Those are the key figures in the trade we made. I do not think that the trade is going to age well for the Kings, or its fans.
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