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Rumor: Wizards pursuing 4th pick from the Kings

Could the Kings and Wizards find common ground in a deal?
By | 180 Comments | Jun 16, 2022

Feb 12, 2022; Washington, District of Columbia, USA; Gonzaga former players Washington Wizards forward Rui Hachimura (left) and Sacramento Kings forward Domantas Sabonis (10) and Washington Wizards forward Corey Kispert (24) during the second half at Capital One Arena. Mandatory Credit: Brad Mills-USA TODAY Sports

According to Washington Wizards Insider Quinton Mayo, the Washington Wizards are highly interested in acquiring the 4th overall pick from the Sacramento Kings in hopes of drafting guard Jaden Ivey out of Purdue:

Washington’s front office is really high on 6-foot-4 guard, Jaden Ivey out of Purdue. They’ve spent a significant amount of time discussing possible trade packages to acquire the number four overall pick from Sacramento, Ivey’s assumed draft position, sources tell me. Ivey, 20, regularly pulls comparisons to explosive combo guards Ja Morant and Russell Westbrook.

This will likely be the first of many rumors regarding the 4th pick and the Kings, as the top-3 of Chet Holmgren, Paolo Banchero, and Jabari Smith Jr. is all but set heading into next week, and Sacramento may not be interested in taking Jaden Ivey if his skill set is deemed to similar to that of De’Aaron Fox. Any team looking to snag what many consider to be a potential franchise guard will be blowing up Sacramento’s phones over the next few days.

From a trade-fit perspective, the Wizards may standout as an interesting partner for the Kings. With their win-now perspective, the Kings will undoubtedly start any conversations with Bradley Beal, assuming that Monte McNair would be sending additional assets Washington’s way, but there has been no indication over the last several years that the Wizards are willing to move their lone All-Star. If that’s the case, the Kings are in desperate need of help at the forward spot, and Washington happens to have several young options on their roster, namely Deni Avdija, Rui Hachimura, and Corey Kispert, as well as the not-as-young Kyle Kuzma, who the Kings pursued last summer before the Buddy Hield trade fell apart with the Lakers.

Of course, any theoretical deal wouldn’t be made up solely of one or more of the players above, as the Wizards also own the 10th overall pick, which would almost certainly be included as well. Recently, Sacramento has worked out several prospects projected to be drafted in the later lottery range, including forward Jeremy Sochan out of Baylor and guard Dyson Daniels from the G League Ignite, and while those scouting efforts are more due diligence than planning for any specific trade, the Kings should be fully prepared to move back if they so choose.

As is always the case with this time of year, rumors and leaks are mostly fueled by agendas, smoke screens, and agent antics, but that doesn’t mean these things can’t or won’t happen or make them any less fun to discuss or argue. More than anything, these types of reports demonstrate the amount of power the Kings hold heading into the draft next Thursday night.

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SexyNapear
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June 16, 2022 8:51 am

Beal would be interesting, but two concerns:

Kings would likely need to give up another 1st rounders in deal

He’s an injury waiting to happen, based on his history.

Other than that, no other assets on Wiz gonna make a difference. And Kuzma is so 2018.

RobHessing
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June 16, 2022 8:53 am

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ZillersCat
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June 16, 2022 10:41 am
Reply to  RobHessing

What if I told you the Kings would get Bradley Beal and keep the 4th Pick!
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1951
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June 16, 2022 11:15 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Here we go … to mucho blah blah blah season …

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Kosta
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June 16, 2022 11:49 am
Reply to  1951

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RobHessing
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June 16, 2022 11:51 am
Reply to  Kosta

Fleetwood MacNair
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Last edited 1 year ago by RobHessing
1951
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June 16, 2022 11:55 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Whoever is selected, half the fans will be Grateful and the other half will be Dead:

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(The upside down photo reveals the tie in, since most of y’all probably wouldn’t know, lol.)

Last edited 1 year ago by 1951
Dougscott
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June 16, 2022 8:58 am

4 for 10, Rui and Deni is a very appealing deal for the kings. You get 2 young 2-way wings and are still in the lottery. Rui is a good fit next to Sabonis

RikSmits
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June 16, 2022 9:01 am
Reply to  Dougscott

Rui is a bad defender and a bit of a black hole on offense.
Deni is a good defender and passer, but has to improve his 3 to help spread the floor. It can happen, but no sure thing.
I’d take Deni and Kuzma.

Dougscott
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June 16, 2022 9:03 am
Reply to  RikSmits

This might be a better version of the deal for sure. Kuzma is also a good fit

NorCalKingsFan
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June 16, 2022 1:06 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

You’d move down from 4 to 10 for Deni and 1yr rental of Kuzma? (unless your plan is to extend Kuz, which doesn’t interest me at all). Kuzma has said he’s not going to use the player option and will instead hit RFA, just like Sabonis.

GreatSuccess
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June 16, 2022 11:19 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I just can’t get excited about Keegan Murray. Maybe it’s the fact half his highlights are against Northern Utah and Northwestern. But I think its more that his play looks like footage from the 70’s. Everything is fundamentally sound, but it’s pretty boring and doesn’t appear very athletic. I’m sure there’s a huge bias there.

The point is, when you give up a gifted scorer and leader like Ivey at #4, the sum of a bunch of role players and another lottery ticket next year just doesn’t add up.

Want2win
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June 17, 2022 9:14 am
Reply to  GreatSuccess

Murray is athletic enough to guard most 3’s and 4’s

he his Fundamentally sound, as great catching shoot, Weakside health shop blocking, great BBIQ excellent finisher and very good catch and shoot percentage from three, cuts well. The only knock on him is he’s a little bit older which is fine for a player that will play the four, and that he does not create super well which isn’t really needed for the type of player he is.

jay14bay
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June 16, 2022 9:01 am
Reply to  Dougscott

I want nothing to do with that trade. Rui is an OK mid range scorer but not very good at anything else. Is that a difference maker? Deni is likely to be out of the league in a few years.

Hobby916
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June 16, 2022 9:07 am
Reply to  jay14bay

His 3PA and 3P% has increased every year. Last year he was up to 44.7% on 2.9 3PA/game. I am not arguing that he is some crazy level shooter, just throwing numbers out there.

RikSmits
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June 16, 2022 9:20 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Yeah, but a bit limited sample size on just half a season, and the reason for Rui being out half a season was never communicated and shrouded in mystery.

The persistent rumours were that he had mental issues. So if the Kings consider adding Rui to a deal, Monte should really do his due diligence.

Dub_TC
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June 16, 2022 10:08 am
Reply to  Dougscott

If you’re dropping from 4 to 10, and only getting Rui and Deni …. that’s a major, major fail.

bjax1
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June 16, 2022 11:01 am
Reply to  Dub_TC

This!

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
June 16, 2022 9:02 am

#4, Harkless, TD, Holiday for #10, Rui, Deni, Kispert and an unconditional 2023 first round pick.

Go Zags!

TrojanCBB
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June 16, 2022 9:17 am
Reply to  Adamsite

That would be great, but because of the westbrook deal, they can’t trade a pick until 2028.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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June 16, 2022 9:22 am
Reply to  TrojanCBB

Doh, nevermind then. None of their wings and #10 are worth the #4. I’d insist on another pick.

RikSmits
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June 16, 2022 9:23 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Yeah, that’s where I am, as well.

Hobby916
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June 16, 2022 9:25 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Yup. 3 unproven role players and the #10 for the #4 pick ain’t gonna cut it.

RAP87
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June 16, 2022 9:31 am
Reply to  TrojanCBB

Yeah that’s a deal breaker right there. None of their wings really gets me excited. I would do #4 for #10, Kispert, Kuzma and a 2023 FRP.

Now that you mentioned that they can’t trade a pick until 2028, its a hard pass.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
June 16, 2022 9:11 am

OT: I believe Murray is the first of the possible top 5 prospects that has been confirmed to have met with the Kings.

https://twitter.com/SeanCunningham/status/1537467441269264384

eddie41
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June 16, 2022 9:35 am
Reply to  Adamsite

this is good news … about Keegan Murray.

keith_kar
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June 16, 2022 3:46 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Good news except for a core that mentions Barnes.

Dougscott
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June 16, 2022 9:16 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Murray remains my favorite target at 4 if one of the top 3 bigs don’t fall. He is just a seamless fit and is still developing his game. If we took Murray, we should look at getting a late pick for more wing help. Love the idea of Ochai on the Kings

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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June 16, 2022 9:20 am
Reply to  Dougscott

If the Kings are staying at #4, I don’t see any way they are acquiring another late first rounder, unless they are moving Barnes. Holmes isn’t going to get it done. Wood was worth #26, so Holmes isn’t going to fetch much.

Hobby916
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June 16, 2022 9:21 am
Reply to  Adamsite

What about Holmes and #37 for a pick in the 20’s?

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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June 16, 2022 9:31 am
Reply to  Hobby916

I don’t think anyone wants Holmes. What teams need a starting mid-level center with his contract. No one is going to want his deal as a back-up center.

With Dallas getting Wood, I see the Hornets as they only team that would want Holmes, but that would likely mean eating Hayward’s deal.

Holmes, Harkless, TD, and Holiday for Hayward and #15 works, but I’d think the Hornets would want Barnes included.

My dream deal: Holmes and Barnes for Hayward and #13

Draft Murray at #4 and Jalan Williams at #13

Dougscott
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June 16, 2022 9:33 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I like this. I would take Ochai at 13 but Im with you on the rest

Hobby916
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June 16, 2022 9:34 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Really interesting how there was there were all these emotions around re-signing Holmes last season, and Monte limiting how much he could pay him based off the moves made during the season, etc. Now he is a player that has little value in the league based on that $12m contract. Things change rather quickly

NorCalKingsFan
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June 16, 2022 12:22 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Holmes salary is not an issue. He is on a team friendly deal.

RobHessing
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June 16, 2022 10:20 am
Reply to  Adamsite

And the FA center market is relatively deep. Holmes is salary filler in the current market, I believe.

MaybeNextYear
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June 16, 2022 11:11 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I would trade Holmes, Holiday, and next year‘s lotto protected first for Hayward. With his injury history, I feel much better having him next to Barnes, rather than replacing him.

richie88
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June 16, 2022 11:15 am
Reply to  MaybeNextYear

I’d trade Holmes & Holiday for Hayward, but not a 1st rounder.

rockbottom
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June 16, 2022 2:30 pm
Reply to  richie88

That deal would work and Kings a better team . Hornets have to sign Miles . Yes and 😃

murraytant
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June 16, 2022 10:34 pm
Reply to  richie88

yes. Do not give up a first rounder- not in 2023 year (great draft)
Hornets want Miles and can use the Hayward space to accomplish that- let the Kings help out.

murraytant
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June 16, 2022 10:35 pm
Reply to  murraytant

the “help out” is take Hayward’s deal + get the #13.

NorCalKingsFan
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June 16, 2022 12:24 pm
Reply to  MaybeNextYear

That’s giving up way too much.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 12:57 pm
Reply to  MaybeNextYear

What? No, if you’re trading for Hayward you should also be receiving at least a 1st. Not giving one away.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 16, 2022 2:22 pm

Yes exactly.

rockbottom
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June 16, 2022 2:32 pm

That would be a deal breaker and Kings worse . Richie 88 on target .

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 3:01 pm
Reply to  rockbottom

Sorry, I’m having trouble figuring out what you’re trying to say. Gordon hasn’t played more than 49 games in a season with CHA and is owed $60MM over the next two seasons. Meanwhile they’re going to have to pony up big to keep Bridges. Hayward is currently the classic definition of a guy teams will likely attached assets to in order to unload his contract. The fact that they have two mid-1sts this year makes it even more likely IMO.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 16, 2022 4:21 pm

You’re having trouble understanding it because it’s so absurd you can’t believe it. Gordon is what you call a bad contract. I’m all for taking on a bad contract in exchange for a nice draft pick or a young prospect.

NorCalKingsFan
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June 16, 2022 12:21 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I’d miss Holmes and Barnes, but I like it.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 12:56 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Co-sign

ArcoThunder
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June 16, 2022 2:20 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Holmes and Barnes for Hayward and the 13 pick would be an excellent trade and I can see how it works for both teams in several ways. Barnes is gone after this year so trade him now or likely lose him for nothing. Holmes is a wasted talent on this roster now. Trade him for something you need and want. Like Hayward! Yes Hayward comes with some injury risk that’s higher than the average player but if healthy he actually fits exactly what the kings need and want to do. It’s increasing the talent level (adding another allstar – former) that can have a serious impact on any chance of making the playoffs.

holmes and Barnes fit with the hornets roster needs really well also and it saves them future money to sign some of their young rising stars like Bridges and Ball to long term deals.

the contracts and on court lineup additions fit incredibly well for both teams. At least from an outsiders perspective.

this trade should happen as soon as possible. I honestly don’t see what there is to not like about this deal from a kings fan perspective. Another first round pick plus a fringe allstar for a playoff run (regardless of your opinion on if a playoff run is wise).

makes too much sense. DO IT Monte!!

UpgradedToQuestionable
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June 16, 2022 8:48 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I would expect Hornets to trade #15 as it’s an acquired 1st rounder, if they trade their own at #13 they can get Stepien-ed in the future.

I don’t expect any trade, but if it did happen…

murraytant
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June 16, 2022 10:31 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

The market for Holmes is disappearing. At this point, I would take on Hayward’s deal to get 13. (they have 15 as well? )
My dream deal- Holmes , Moe, Holiday for 13 and Hayward.

Dougscott
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June 16, 2022 9:26 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Cavs are interested in Barnes. That 14th pick was more my target

Jack
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June 16, 2022 10:29 am
Reply to  Dougscott

Barnes to the Cavs for Caris LeVert and the #14.

RikSmits
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June 16, 2022 9:12 am

I’ve been following the Wizards a lot.

Beal wants to go to a contender and he wants to get paid the supermax; preferably both. Beal is not worth the supermax.

If you believe that Fox should expend less effort on defense because he’s so involved offensively, you’d be happy with Beal’s D. If you love winning basketball, you’d be less than thrilled.

If you hated Buddy dribbling the ball off his foot and making mindnumbing TO’s? Beal will drive you nuts, especially in crunch time.

Also, keep in mind that Beal has transitioned from a pure SG with a high clip from 3% to a combo-gaurd who has the ball in his hands a lot and has regressed from 3. His last season with a 3P% higer than .353, is in the 2017-2018 season (.375 3p%). He’ll have to transition back succesfully to a more off-ball outside shooting player to succeed with Fox and Sabonis.

No thanks.

Dougscott
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June 16, 2022 9:14 am
Reply to  RikSmits

I don’t think the Wizards are looking to trade Beal for the 4th. They seemed to want to pair Ivey with Beal and Porzingis. So any deal would probably be for 10 and a trio of the roles players they have

Ellis5
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June 16, 2022 9:14 am
Reply to  Dougscott

Lol

RikSmits
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June 16, 2022 9:17 am
Reply to  Dougscott

Oh, I agree with that.

It is more to sort of forestall Kings fans of getting infatuated with the idea of Beal.

Dougscott
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June 16, 2022 9:19 am
Reply to  RikSmits

Agreed. I know Beal is a stud, but we would be just repeating the Beal/Wall combo essentially.

Now, I would still probably accept a Beal trade lol

murraytant
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June 16, 2022 10:39 pm
Reply to  Dougscott

would they throw in Salmons? or help us get Sauce Castillo back.???
those guys are great role players

Mateen Cleaves
June 16, 2022 9:54 am
Reply to  RikSmits

For a time Beal used to live in my neighborhood in Northern Virginia. One time I was at a stop light a few minutes before 8am on my way to work. Started to smell an overwhelming dank odor with my windows down. Looked in rearview mirror, Brad Beal hitting the blunt hard in his drop top Ferrari on his way to practice. He may be supremely talented, but he doesn’t have the disciplined winner mentality we need.

PhutureKings
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June 16, 2022 10:32 am
Reply to  Mateen Cleaves

It’s the week before the draft. This seems like a smokescreen.

ArcoThunder
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June 16, 2022 2:28 pm
Reply to  PhutureKings

Please tell me you were high when you came up with that
😂

rockbottom
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June 16, 2022 2:36 pm
Reply to  Mateen Cleaves

Beal will be getting 45 million to not play in 3 seasons .

murraytant
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June 16, 2022 10:37 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

completely agree.

TerzoM
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June 16, 2022 9:32 am

..amount of power the Kings hold ..

comment image
Let’s go McGenius

Last edited 1 year ago by TerzoM
Kosta
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June 16, 2022 12:27 pm
Reply to  TerzoM

comment image

Bud Light presents: Real Men of Genius

Reeeal men of geeenius
.
.

Today we salute you, Mr. 4 on 5 Inventor.

Mister 4 on 5 inve-entor
.
.

Never before has anyone who professes to be good at math

come up with an idea that results in bad math.

4 minus 5 equals negative one
.
.

Sure, you guided your daughter’s elementary school to the championship game with your cunning tactics.

And it will also work

in the National Basketball Association.

Cherry picking is so sweet and tasty
.
.

You surround yourself with people smarter than yourself.

Which, if you think about it,

literally makes you the dumbest guy in the room

and Vlade was pretty darned dumb
.
.

But who can argue against branding something “3.0”

3.0 is better than 2.0
.
.

And who could fault you for telling the fans:

this is “their team”?

This sucky team is your team and it sucks catch me at the Warriors game
.
.

Because you know

owning a professional sports team means you get to enjoy watching really good basketball

played by your teams’ opponents

Yes I wore a jacket with a L*kers logo on it California knows how to party
.
.

So crack open an ice cold Bud Light,

oh Sultan of the 2 Seconds Ahead

And keep those brilliant ideas coming

Because if you’re in the lottery every offseason,

you’re playing to win

…the lottery

Mister 4 on 5 inve-entor
.
.

Bud Light Beer

Anheuser-Busch

St. Louis, Missouri

comment image

Last edited 1 year ago by Kosta
TerzoM
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June 16, 2022 1:45 pm
Reply to  Kosta

Chug Chug Chug! Pedal to the Meddle!
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ArcoThunder
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June 16, 2022 2:32 pm
Reply to  Kosta

killed it

AllHailBurton
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June 16, 2022 6:12 pm
Reply to  Kosta

This killed me. I forgot about those catchy commercials.

nonstripedzebra
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June 16, 2022 9:39 am

I guess my question is what is the rationale and grounds for doing a deal like this. Hypothetically its splitting the difference of win now and prospect acquisition. Not against that in a vacuum but do question if you can design a return that makes it worthwhile.

If its for some/all of Kispert, Rui and Deni you are essentially trading for prospects. In that case the group hasnt really shown signs of being able to be plus starters at this point. Yes its a lot of darts but they all seem pretty unreliable compared to the upside of #4. Even with 10.

Kuzma being involved with them and the 10th pick starts to have more grounds for the above stated goals. But I don’t see his fit being without flaws next to Sabonis. He has made strides defensively especially on the perimeter but weakside help and size he’s not the best in cover for Domas. Offensively its interesting but still question if its enough. And you have to match salary. I dont want to use holmes in that deal (think you could get some better value removed from this trade). #4, Harkless, Holiday and Len for #10 Kuzma and Deni would work. It still seems a bit thin.

Last edited 1 year ago by nonstripedzebra
nonstripedzebra
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June 16, 2022 9:46 am

That said I would prefer this than a John Collins deal without draft compensation. I dont think theres a lot of air between him and Kuzma despite a chasm of separation in value to contract. A deal like that would be being made for immediate improvement. That said you likely are attaching Barnes in the deal or at least Holmes and your whole bench. Does that leave you better? Subtract also a lottery pick in the return package and cap constraints I dont see the appeal at all.

Mateen Cleaves
June 16, 2022 9:59 am

Not a Kuzma homer by any means but saw him play against us in Sabonis’ first away game. I know Sabonis is a bit larger on paper but in person, I was SHOCKED at Kuzma’s size. He was actually bigger than Sabonis as a presence on the floor. He has filled out (wouldn’t say he’s overweight, just thicc). And he can really take over games (granted against our porous D).

nonstripedzebra
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June 16, 2022 10:09 am
Reply to  Mateen Cleaves

I have always been a big fan of his game. And I do want to make clear he is a good defender, it’s just the lack of verticality with Sabonis that gets be a little concerned on that end. That said the IQ stuff on offense with Sabonis’s stewardship would not be an adjustment for him. The improvements he made this year along with him entering his prime it’s not unreasonable if he continued to improve.

IDK I guess I just disagree with the premise/rationale of the deal. Or feel it a bit thin when comparing to other trade down possibilities. Granted those are just hypothetically plausible just like this. It has merit to consider.

Granted Kuzma, something and 10 compared to a Grant or Collins deal with no draft compensation and more outbound salary (possibly Barnes) I would much rather this deal.

Last edited 1 year ago by nonstripedzebra
Jack
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June 16, 2022 10:36 am

See above post comment.

Mateen Cleaves
June 16, 2022 10:42 am
Reply to  Jack

Doubt Wiz do that trade. I’m also a bit higher on TD than most folks on this site.

MichaelMack
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June 16, 2022 6:55 pm
Reply to  Mateen Cleaves

I think there is a significant chance TD out performs his contract next year.

Jack
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June 16, 2022 10:35 am
Reply to  Mateen Cleaves

Go back to yesterdays post and look at what I had as a trade idea.

Jack
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June 16, 2022 10:33 am

In a year or two Murray is going to be far better than Kuzma.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 1:34 pm
Reply to  Jack

I don’t think it will take that long.

nonstripedzebra
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June 16, 2022 2:05 pm
Reply to  Jack

The question is if he is better then a combo of Kuzma plus the 10th pick and say Deni. And an aside where is Sabonis at this point? A fair question as part of the rationale of the said trade is the fact the Kings pushed their timeline in the trade they made last season.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you. Nor am I actively advocating for the laid out trade above just saying it isn’t simply a comparison of Kuzma and Murray.

murraytant
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June 16, 2022 10:41 pm
Reply to  Jack

how about right now?

andy_sims
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June 16, 2022 9:41 am

as the top-3 of Chet Holmgren, Paolo Banchero, and Jabari Smith Jr. is all but set heading into next week

I don’t share your certainty.

Kingsguru21
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June 16, 2022 9:49 am
Reply to  andy_sims

Me either. I think Presti will take Ivey. Have for at least a week.

Hobby916
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June 16, 2022 9:51 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I have that same notion. The question is, which of Chet, Jabari, Paolo is there at 4? Or to throw a wrench in the whole thing, what if the Rockets get crazy and take Sharpe…Nothing would really surprise at this point.

RAP87
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June 16, 2022 9:54 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Possible but highly unlikely they choose Sharpe over one of the consensus top 3.

They just traded Wood to the Mavs for the anticipation of picking one of Chet, Paolo or Jabari.

Hobby916
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June 16, 2022 10:03 am
Reply to  RAP87

Do we know that? It’s all speculation at this point.

Kingsguru21
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June 16, 2022 10:13 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Regardless, I would bet Houston wanted Banchero more than OKC and OKC wants Ivey. Just based on their roster and those guys individual strengths/weaknesses.

MichaelMack
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June 16, 2022 6:57 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Agreed. A guy with his size who can average 18-8-4 would look pretty sweet with what Jalen can turn into, and whatever Sengun, KPG, Garuba, and Christopher turn out to be.

Kingsguru21
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June 16, 2022 10:11 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Chet. He has shot creation issues for teams that are really bad at shot creation. McNair has always probably been very confident that Holmgren would be there at 4. But at the same time you can’t be played and tip your hand.

Dub_TC
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June 16, 2022 10:15 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

if the Kings walk away with Chet at 4 in this draft, that’s a huge, huge get.

Kingsguru21
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June 16, 2022 10:16 am
Reply to  Dub_TC

Don’t be surprised if it happens.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 1:35 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

From your lips to Basketba’al’s ears.

andy_sims
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June 16, 2022 1:52 pm

Blasphem’d

Hobby916
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June 16, 2022 10:19 am
Reply to  Dub_TC

If he is there at 4, have the NBA league office on speed dial and make the pick.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 1:41 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I really hope you’re right. Partially because I disagree with this:

 He has shot creation issues 

In fact, out of the consensus top 4, I expect him to be the second best creator (for himself and others).

Kingsguru21
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June 16, 2022 4:20 pm

So you think Holmgren is a better shot creator than Smith? I’m assuming it’s not Banchero since that’s what he does. I’ve not watched Holmgren much, but what I have seen is that he doesn’t create a ton of shots that isn’t in the open court.

I might be wrong (normal caveats apply), but I don’t see what you’re saying at all.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 16, 2022 4:23 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

You haven’t watched Holmgren much but you’re prepared to constantly evaluate him. Got it, great stuff.

Kingsguru21
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June 16, 2022 4:37 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Oh. You got me. My bad. I’ll stop opining now oh great opinionater.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 16, 2022 4:50 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

But then what else would you do with your life. You’re on this site 24/7.

Kingsguru21
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June 16, 2022 5:02 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

How original. At least you’re nothing if not consistent.

eddie41
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June 16, 2022 5:56 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I haven’t been following this argument, but just wanted to say thanks for sharing that new word “opinionater”. I’m thinking sci-fi, like the Terminator, but with a new up and coming movie star.

Kingsguru21
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June 16, 2022 6:01 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Like many arguments it’s polemic at best. But at least most of the back and forths I usually enjoy.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 8:30 pm
Reply to  eddie41

It reminds me of Dr. Doofenschmirtz.

eddie41
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June 17, 2022 12:35 am

I am not familiar with Doofenschmirtz, but I’ll try to remember, maybe sleep on it. Certainly sounds interesting.

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June 18, 2022 9:59 am

A Phineas and Ferb reference. You’re really Otis, aren’t you?

(I’m kidding.)

AnybodyButBagley
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June 16, 2022 7:06 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

This is is true.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 6:24 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

You got me right

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June 16, 2022 7:44 pm

I’m just curious what makes you believe Holmgren will be such a good shot creator at the NBA level. You could easily be right, wouldn’t be surprised if you are. Just curious why more than anything else.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 8:48 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I think he has a more versatile offensive game, better vision (and of course his size creates passing lanes), he’s highly efficient inside and outside the paint, and he has a deeper bag of ways to get to his shot. Both Ivey and Smith are pretty one-dimensional. They’re very good at that one dimension, but NBA teams are pretty good at taking that type of thing away. Smith isn’t really a shot creator at all, though his ability to hit tough jumpers over contests could be considered a type of creation, I guess.

Last edited 1 year ago by BestHyperboleEver
Kingsguru21
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June 18, 2022 10:07 am

How much of this impression is actually based on what they did at college?

The reason I ask is quite often players change their profiles some from what they are at the collegiate level to the pro level.

And, I would also point out, that despite my saying otherwise, it wouldn’t shock me in the slightest if Holmgren goes #1 to Orlando. But I also think that’s OKC’s preferred scenario because they almost assuredly would rather have Smith Jr than Holmgren (IMO) due to what each guy does and could do moving forward.

Eh, who knows, much of this is guesswork?

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June 16, 2022 10:14 am
Reply to  Hobby916

I would bet that, if Ivey goes in the top 3, Paolo would be the one to fall.

richie88
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June 16, 2022 11:25 am
Reply to  Dub_TC

If any of the top 3 bigs fall, draft the big that falls.

murraytant
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June 16, 2022 10:49 pm
Reply to  richie88

if a big falls (in the forest) , would the Kings even notice?

I do think Ivey goes in top 3.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 1:42 pm
Reply to  Dub_TC

Sounds good. Ivey going in the top 3 triggers a few different Kings draft possibilities and they’re all excellent.

richie88
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June 16, 2022 11:22 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

That’d be ideal.

murraytant
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June 16, 2022 10:44 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I think so too. Ivey is a home run (potentially) and he will pass on Chet or try to trade to 4 to get Chet too.

andy_sims
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June 16, 2022 10:31 am
Reply to  andy_sims

The various rumored deals are interesting, and I’m not a opposed to a deal, per se, but if Ivey goes higher than four, and one of the bigs is there for Sacramento, he has to be the selection.

And if another team is interested in acquiring said big, then the price of poker will have gone way up.

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June 16, 2022 11:02 am
Reply to  andy_sims

I wonder if McNair and the FO prefer Murray to Banchero. I doubt that matters, but I’m feeling very idle speculatory atm.

andy_sims
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June 16, 2022 11:52 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

It probably comes down to the same thing we’ve discussed for weeks: Murray is likely the available guy who can have the most-immediate positive impact, but whoever is available at four has a better chance to be a top-level NBA player.

I am confident that Murray will be available at five, less so at six, but it’s conceivable. I have a hard time convincing myself that if we take Murray at four, it won’t be a missed opportunity. If an asset can be acquired to swap down, and still get Murray? That’d be the kind of compromise a lot of us could live with.

The pick is extremely valuable, and I won’t be convinced that a deal to move it would be the right one unless we get an equally valuable asset in return. I wouldn’t rule out Murray as a possible ROY candidate, but the most recent Sacramento ROY didn’t turn out to be the best player in his class, with several players selected after Evans ultimately having better careers.

There is almost certainly not a Steph Curry in this class, which is by no means an insult. The question is whether any of the consensus top players available at four could be special or not. I believe that each has that potential. That’s my concern about taking Murray instead of Ivey, Smith, Banchero, or Holmgren.

I have zero doubt that McNair loves the kind of player that Murray is, if his previous picks are any indication. Is that enough for him to pass on any of the guys mentioned above? My take is that everything that happens next week is entirely dependent on this question, and that any deals that happen or don’t happen will hinge upon it.

Kingsguru21
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June 16, 2022 4:26 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I have zero doubt that McNair loves the kind of player that Murray is, if his previous picks are any indication.

My question is how much McNair loves Murray, not whether he does. A subtle distinction to be sure, but an important one.

 Is that enough for him to pass on any of the guys mentioned above?

Maybe Banchero but especially Ivey. I just doubt it ends up being the issue.

My take is that everything that happens next week is entirely dependent on this question, and that any deals that happen or don’t happen will hinge upon it.

If it comes down to Ivey or Murray, I’d agree. But I think Holmgren’s real question marks drop him out of the top 3 regardless of the narrative today, June 16th 2022 AD, that says he’s an auto lock for a top 2 pick. I can see Houston trading their pick if Smith or Banchero aren’t there.

It’ll be an interesting week.

Last edited 1 year ago by Kingsguru21
andy_sims
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June 16, 2022 4:46 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

That’s an interesting wrinkle if Holmgren is there at three, and the Rockets want to make a trade, there won’t be any shortage of interested parties.

On the other hand, you put Ivey in with the current Houston roster, and a crazy-athletic roster gets even crazier. I don’t know if they’d pass it up, but it would depend on what offers they get for the pick, same as here.

I like the other bigs better, but if Holmgren is there at four, I don’t think you can pass on him, barring any very attractive trade offers.

Kingsguru21
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June 16, 2022 5:21 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I like the other bigs better, but if Holmgren is there at four, I don’t think you can pass on him, barring any very attractive trade offers.

I would be pretty surprised if the Kings passed on Holmgren. More than Ivey and Banchero combined, that is.

I highly doubt they dislike Ivey or Banchero for that matter. The issue is what he really brings to the table if you take him. With Davion, you could argue on ball defense. Plus he was taken with the 1:9 and that calculus is very different than the 1:4.

It wouldn’t surprise me if a number of FOs consider Banchero, Ivey and Holmgren on the same tier. It especially wouldn’t surprise me if that includes OKC.

Sam Presti throws monkey wrenches into the mix. Did it with Westy in 08 at the 1:4, the bearded fat boy Harden at 1:3 in 2009, and did it last year with Giddey at the 1:6. Jaden Ivey fits into those lines perfectly.

But McNair knows better to assume (as I’ve said already). You know it Sims, so do I. If I’m being honest, I’d have no trouble laying down a C Note on whether Holmgren ends up at 4. It’s just the public narrative can’t read Presti despite a 15 year body of work (which I think is bullshit but that’s conspiracy theory’ish), and McNair is impossible to read as he can go in so many directions here. In alot of ways, it’s a fascinating chess match. The rumors alone illustrate agents aren’t sure of the direction this draft, yet, IMO.

As always we’ll see. Normal caveats apply. Yadda yadda yadda.

andy_sims
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June 17, 2022 9:13 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

The only way I see McNair seriously pursuing the #2 pick is if Smith is on the board when it’s called. If Smith goes first, then whoever is eventually available at four will still be an extremely valuable asset, whether on the roster, or in a trade.

Kingsguru21
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June 17, 2022 5:22 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Yep, I’d agree the only player I’d trade up for is Smith Jr. And it depends on what I’m really giving up.

murraytant
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June 16, 2022 10:54 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

yes. Houston wants Smith or Banchero- less interested in Chet or Ivey.
What usually happens is that players go in rough order of talent and potential, Teams just trade a round to make that happen.
The top 4 go top 4. The teams picking might change

Jack
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June 16, 2022 5:04 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I think that the Kings at #4 would want to take one of the 3 or Murray but trade down so as to get more assets but still take Murray.

Jack
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June 16, 2022 5:00 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I would.

King4life
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June 16, 2022 10:21 am

All of these trade scenarios thrown out there remind me of the 2009 draft when the Wizards traded the #5 pick for Randy Foye and Mike Miller.

Just pick BPA, don’t overthink it. Role players who won’t make a difference if you don’t have a true star.

SneakerKing
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June 16, 2022 10:33 am
Reply to  King4life

Thank you. Crappy, perennial 30 win loser teams do stupid shit like wonder about what role players they can put next to their “star” players.

Dougscott
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June 16, 2022 1:05 pm
Reply to  King4life

Well, that all depends on perspective. For example, I don’t see a “true star” available at 4 if the top bigs are off the board

richie88
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June 16, 2022 11:10 am

I don’t think there’s any way to do a worthwhile trade w/the Wizards.

oshima9
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June 16, 2022 11:46 am

“Sacramento may not be interested in taking Jaden Ivey if his skill set is deemed to similar to that of De’Aaron Fox.”

Fox is not a dominant player such that you would pass on taking a player like Ivey if you thought he has superstar talent.

andy_sims
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June 16, 2022 11:54 am
Reply to  oshima9

Only one GM in a million would be that stupid.

RobHessing
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June 16, 2022 11:54 am
Reply to  oshima9

comment image

peyroux
June 16, 2022 12:53 pm
Reply to  oshima9

Exactly. It astounds me why some posters here are still talking about “fit” with Fox while holding a high draft pick. I guess memories are short with some around here.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 1:26 pm
Reply to  peyroux

Of course, Doncic isn’t on the board.

SneakerKing
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June 16, 2022 2:01 pm

Even so, once Fox can get the Kings to a playoff showing, then we can start talking about fit. Until then, he should be viewed as an asset who can be moved for something better. Fox has no track record to be talked about in terms of fit.

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June 16, 2022 2:12 pm
Reply to  SneakerKing

Agreed, but since I don’t see Ivey as BPA at that slot anyway, the fact that he’s a poor fit makes the idea of Ivey even worse.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 16, 2022 2:26 pm

He may not be the BPA but he’s not a poor fit, You can’t possibly evaluate that yet. Come on.

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June 16, 2022 2:56 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Based on his present skillset, Fox’s present skillset, and the team mix of skills I believe to be important to winning in the NBA, I believe he is a poor fit. Perhaps he’ll develop into a different player in the future with skills presently not in evidence, at which point he may be a better fit. But at the moment, with the information I have, I don’t believe a team featuring Fox and Ivey is likely to be successful.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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Nostradumbass 14
June 16, 2022 4:18 pm

Yup. I’m in this camp as well. If Monte feels Ivey is the clear BPA and future star, then draft him, but he’d also better have a plan to move on from Fox in the near future.

It sort of reminds me of Monta Ellis and Steph Curry sharing a backcourt in Golden State. Only one was still around when they started winning.

Last edited 1 year ago by Adamsite
Kings-Rebuild
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June 16, 2022 4:29 pm
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Oh Geez where do I start with that one.

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June 16, 2022 4:33 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Go for it.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 16, 2022 4:44 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Let’s see it all goes back to the ridiculous discussions if Curry was a one or a two a virtual meaningless distinction. On and on they went. So how would Monte not be a fit with Curry. Is Jordan Poole a fit with Curry. It was even said the KD might not be a FIT with Curry. How did that work out. Are multiple players that can both handle the ball and shoot somehow not a fit. There’s absolutely no evidence Monte and Curry would not have been successful together and if they weren’t it wasn’t because of fit. Lastly do you remember the fit discussions regarding Fox and Doncic who apparently Vlade thought were not a fit. You think the Kings would like to see if they could coexist now. Good/great players always find a way to fit.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
June 16, 2022 5:16 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

LOL, then why did G.S. trade Monta for an injured Bogut? Was Bogut the better player, or was it because of fit?

Uhhh….

 It was even said the KD might not be a FIT with Curry. 

This is your butt-pulled idea. K.D. fit like a gem and was why the Warriors let Barnes walk for nothing to Dallas.

Lastly, I don’t remember the fit “discussions” regarding Luka with Fox, BECAUSE 99.9% OF THIS WEBSITE WANTED LUKA! There were no discussion other than the rumored ones in Vlade’s head. Luka was the clear BPA and everyone knew it.

Ivey is like Luka in the way that Keegan Murray is like Tim Duncan. Nonsense.

Kings-Rebuild
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June 16, 2022 4:28 pm

Fox and Ivey may not bring success to the Kings but it’s not because of fit. It will be because they simply aren’t good enough. This fit stuff I keep reading drives almost as crazy when I kept hearing the word mentoring after the Kings mistakenly signed Hill to a bloated contract. I expect this crap from others but you’re too knowledgeable to buy into that hogwash.

BestHyperboleEver
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June 16, 2022 5:52 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

A team, as a whole, in order to be successful, needs to be able to do a number of things. Shoot, facilitate, rebound, defend, etc. Featuring two on-ball guards that don’t provide spacing (which each of them need to succeed), aren’t great facilitators, and don’t defend well is fine. It just puts A LOT of pressure on the other positions to provide those skills. And finding those skills at a high level at other positions isn’t especially easy to do. Is it possible? Sure. Which is why I said that team isn’t likely to be successful. But it’s going to take just the right mix of other players (otherwise known as “fit”).

For example, I think a team trotting out Fox, Ivey, Barnes, Sabonis, and Holmes (considering their present displayed skillsets) is going to pretty darned easy to shut down. And even easier to score on.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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June 16, 2022 4:15 pm
Reply to  peyroux

FIt only comes in if there is no real clear BPA at #4. If Monte has Ivey, Murray, or someone like Sharpe all relatively on the same tier, then you consider fit.

When it came to Luka, he was BPA by a country mile by most everyone on this site and on the rest of the planet. The two situations are not that similar.

Kingsguru21
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June 16, 2022 4:53 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I think if you go back and look, there was a ton of takes that essentially was:”How the fuck can you claim you’re a professional FO and pass up on Doncic?”

My thought at the time was the FO lacked imagination. Still feel that way. And it wasn’t just Doncic or Mitchell they missed out on, either. Bam Adebayo, Jarrett Allen and Kyle Kuzma (the latter two available at 15 and 20) weren’t taken in 2017. The Kings passed on Jaren Jackson Jr, Trae Young, Mikal Bridges, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander to name a few in 2018.

Vlade Divac and his FO had a ridiculously horrible feel for talent. And it shows why the Kings are at where they’re at in 2022.

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Nostradumbass 14
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June 16, 2022 5:18 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Agreed. Vlade just 100% sucked at his job, and that is about it.

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June 17, 2022 7:38 am