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Chainmail: Trade Machine Mania

So. Many. Trades.
By | 165 Comments | Jan 31, 2025

Welcome back to the mailbag!

A few days ago, we asked y’all to send in some trade ideas, and boy, did you. Let’s dive right in!

From SexyNapear

SAC: Brooks, Sheppard, Amen Thompson
HOU: Fox

Tim: Listen, I love this trade for the Kings, as Sheppard and Thompson would headline an amazing start to a rebuild or quick reset, but there is a zero point zero percent chance the Rockets give up Thompson in a Fox deal. From everything I’ve heard, he’s one of the most untouchable young dudes in the league. I do think Houston would make an interesting trade partner, but I think they would be swapping Thompson for Green and throwing in a couple of picks as well.

From RobHessing

SAC: Jaylen Brown
BOS: Fox, Huerter

Tim: Similar to the deal above, I love the return for the Kings, but I think the Celtics would have a hard time blowing up their primary two-man core, even for Fox, at least at this time. I would give this kind of deal a second look in the summer if Fox is still around and if the Celtics flame out in the playoffs.

From SlamsonsRollerskates

SAC: Herb Jones, Matkovic
NOP: Huerter, 2028 SAC first rounder (top-10 protected)

Tim: If the Pelicans put Herb on the market, they could get a whole lot more than an overpaid shooter who can’t shoot and a protected pick. Hell, I would give a lot more than that.

From ThisHotFireKevin

SAC: Butler, Camara
MIA: Monk, Huerter, Kris Murray, McDermott, 2026 SAC second rounder
POR: Lyles, 2029 MIA first rounder

Tim: First, small bit of feedback – the Kings can’t trade their 2026 second rounder since it’s locked up in the Huerter trade, but let’s swap it for their 2029. With that out of the way, I don’t foresee the Kings giving up Monk for Butler. They wouldn’t give up Monk for Siakam last year, and Siakam is younger and better than Butler. It would also be very difficult, from a trade feasibility/roster standpoint, for the Heat to swap two players for four.

From Hobby916

SAC: John Collins, Sensabaugh
UTA: Huerter, Lyles, 2029 SAC second rounder

Tim: John Collins is the guy the Kings need to go get if they’re hoping to save their relationship with De’Aaron Fox, but they’re going to need to spend a bit more than this package to get him. While the Kings probably could have snagged Collins for this price a couple of summers ago if our GM ever decided to make trades, he’s completely revamped his value this season. At 18 points and almost 9 boards per game, Ainge will likely ask for Huerter, Carter, and a protected pick. We also have to take into consideration that the Kings have out-leveraged themselves in these talks by making it clear that they’re desperate for Collins to help with Fox. Right target, too low of a price.

From Kfan

SAC: Holmes, Bagley, Hield, Queta
WAS: Huerter, Lyles
BOS: Colby Jones
GSW: Murray

Tim: If this wouldn’t save the Fox-Kings relationship, nothing will!

From Kfan

SAC: Butler, Richardson
MIA: Fox, Huerter

Tim: Jimmy Butler would tear this organization apart (somewhat rightfully so) and then refuse to re-sign, and we would have nothing to show for Fox. Hard pass.

From Hudson101

SAC: Keldon Johnson, Castle, Sochan
SAS: Fox

Tim: I don’t think the Spurs would want to give up three good young players in the deal – they have a bazillion draft assets to tap into, which would help sustain their core around Fox and Wemby. Swap out one of those dudes for a couple of first rounders, and the deal is probably much closer to reality.

From Hobby916

SAC: Vassell, Castle, 2025 ATL first (unprotected), 2026 ATL first round swap, 2026 UTA second rounder
SAS: Fox, Colby Jones

Tim: I need more for De’Aaron Fox. Yes, the Spurs may be his destination, but he’s under contract in Sacramento for another year-and-a-half, and if he goes the free agency route, he’s going to lose tens of millions of dollars, and San Antonio may pivot before that point. Castle and Vassell (I’ll swap for Sochan too – I don’t really care) need to come with a minimum of two picks, and those two picks need to be Atlanta’s unprotected first rounders. I would also request the 2031 pick swap back. If the deal is Castle + Vassell/Sochan + 2 Atlanta firsts + pick swap back, my ears are starting to perk up. On a side note, I would also want to discover if San Antonio was interested in DDR, and they could add a couple of  minor assets and Collins to make the salaries work.

From Saboner

SAC: Vassell, Sochan, 2025 ATL first (unprotected), 2027 ATL first (unprotected)
SAS: Fox, Colby Jones

Tim: This is very similar to the proposal above, but it does include the two Atlanta picks, which are two incredibly valuable assets. I’m still not super comfortable with any deal not involving Castle, but I could probably get behind this one if we’re also getting our pick swap back and a second rounder or two.

From MaybeNextYear

SAC: Boucher
TOR: Lyles, Colby Jones, 2029 SAC second rounder

Tim: I like it. It’s simple. It’s helpful. It’s reasonable. Toronto may also look to flip Lyles to a third team for another second rounder, but this is a small-time deal that would help the Kings in the long run.

From TheZorcon

SAC: Castle, Vassell, Cam Johnson
SAS: Fox
BKN: Huerter, Lyles, 2025 ATL first rounder (unprotected)

Tim: I hate the idea of trading Fox and not getting a single first rounder in return. The Spurs need to send out more than one pick in any deal, and if Fox is gone, I have no desire to take on Cam Johnson and his oft-injured contract.

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Greg
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January 31, 2025 9:47 am

Just want to say, in response to this:

From Hobby916

SAC: Vassell, Castle, 2025 ATL first (unprotected), 2026 ATL first round swap, 2026 UTA second rounder

SAS: Fox, Colby Jones

Tim: I need more for De’Aaron Fox.

If you think that’s not enough, I think you’re going to be very disappointed.

SavageBeast
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January 31, 2025 9:51 am
Reply to  Greg

I think we’re all going to be disappointed no matter what the Kings Vivek do does.

Last edited 17 days ago by SavageBeast
Hobby916
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January 31, 2025 10:04 am
Reply to  Greg

I though that was fairly close to value for Fox. I guess it all depends on what our estimation of Fox is as a player. I think I tend to rate him a bit lower than some people.

Also, I don’t expect the Kings FO/Vivek to get a crazy good return because, well, we all know why.

Adamsite
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January 31, 2025 10:18 am
Reply to  Greg

I agree. I still go back to what the Pels gave up for Dejounte Murray, which is not too far off of a comp for Fox, you milage may vary.

Pels gave up: Dyson Daniels, Larry Nance, a 2025 first rounder (Lakers), a 2027 least favorable 1st rounder (Bucks or Pels) protected top 4, and contract filler.

For comparison that Castle, Vassell, pick and pick swap is a more in talent and more in draft value.

I’m guessing that if you want Castle (which I don’t think the Spurs want to include) you are not going to get a ton of draft capital. If it’s draft capital you want, remove Castle.

I also want to say that if sending out Fox for two additional guards in Castle and Vassell, you are not filling any holes in the Kings roster.

Here is my compromise:

Spurs get: Fox and Lyles
Kings get: Sochan, Champagnie, Keldon Johnson, Zach Collins, 2025 ATL first rounder, 2027 ATL pick, 2031 pick swap returned.

My rationale is that the Spurs get to keep Castle and Vassell, but are then willing to give up the picks. Kings wings and bigs that fill their holes. All are also future trade fodder if need be.

TheGrantNapear
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January 31, 2025 10:46 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Given contract values, I don’t know that the Spurs would even give up Castle straight up for Fox.
Nor would the Rockets give up Amen straight up for Fox.

King’s fans are dreaming. Most likely the return is going to be a few young rotational players and boat load of firsts that are going to be late firsts given the way potential trade partners like the Spurs and Rockets are trending.

Adamsite
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January 31, 2025 10:53 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

The only thing about teams like the Spurs, OKC, Houston, Brooklyn and Utah, is that they have more picks than they know what to do with. That can’t possibly use them all every year. IMO, Those teams didn’t collect all those picks to go draft hunting, they are going to use them to go star hunting in trade, and other teams know that.

Just look at how OKC traded three lesser first rounders for one greater first round with the Suns. Presti knows he can’t use them all so he’s gonna kick those assets down the road or use them at the opportune time to pounce on a trade.

King4life
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January 31, 2025 11:07 am
Reply to  Adamsite

One minor update, it was Utah not OKC that made the trade for the Suns pick.

Adamsite
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January 31, 2025 11:22 am
Reply to  King4life

Sorry, my bad. I’ve been confusing Presti and Ainge in their savviness.

TheGrantNapear
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January 31, 2025 11:22 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Agreed, these teams want to get rid of the boat load of picks as opposed to giving up known, good young players with potential on rookie deals.

Fox’ current and pending contracts coupled with him not being a franchise player doesn’t make him as valuable as many think IMO.

oshima9
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January 31, 2025 11:10 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

It has been a perpetual problem with Kings fans. If the players were as good as what fans thought the team deserved in trade, the team would have been a lot better.

I think that your assessment is accurate. A team is not going to give up a talented young player on a rookie scale contract for Fox. Look also at what happened to the Clippers with SGA, a cautionary tale to be sure.

For me, your estimated return is one of the best outcomes, as long as the team doesn’t make the playoffs and retains a protected first in next year’s draft.

TheGrantNapear
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January 31, 2025 11:21 am
Reply to  oshima9

Yeah and the new tax apron rules make these young players so much more valuabe compared to non-elite good players like Fox that are on massive deals. I saw a snippet on X that that is why Rich Paul has pushed for this right now, because a year from now they’ll be less teams that are even able to trade for Fox due to cap issues.

RikSmits
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January 31, 2025 11:53 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Draft capital? Draft capital?

I need draught capital!

comment image

cloudyeyes
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January 31, 2025 12:18 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I agree with this. When reading how people value Castle off the Spurs – he’s borderline untouchable. I get a sense of deja vous with this, as Castle seems to be like the Spurs’ Tyrese Haliburton. The best we could get in a Castle trade is Castle. Period. Let’s not kid ourselves by thinking we can get Castle, Vassel, Johnson and a treasure trove of picks – it’s not happening. From the Spurs’ standpoint – they want a guarantee that Wemby stays happy – a sure fire thing in Fox. They aren’t going to completely gut their team over him and no team in the NBA would. He is not a guaranteed hall of fame superstar. He is a fringe, borderline all-star. Huge difference.

So this trade…
Spurs get: Fox and Lyles
Kings get: Sochan, Champagnie, Keldon Johnson, Zach Collins, 2025 ATL first rounder, 2027 ATL pick, 2031 pick swap returned.

Is much more attainable. The Spurs aren’t here to roll the dice with picks. We are, because our current product isn’t going to cut it. And we can all see what the end result of hanging onto Fox is going to be – him signing elsewhere, unless we miraculously get past the first round of the playoffs, which is a HUGE gamble in itself.

Last edited 17 days ago by cloudyeyes
NorCalKingsFan
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January 31, 2025 6:44 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

wrong reply, re-posted below

Last edited 17 days ago by NorCalKingsFan
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January 31, 2025 11:23 am
Reply to  Greg

Just want to say, in response to this:

Just want to say, in response to this:

From Hobby916

SAC: Vassell, Castle, 2025 ATL first (unprotected), 2026 ATL first round swap, 2026 UTA second rounder

SAS: Fox, Colby Jones

Tim: I need more for De’Aaron Fox.

If you think that’s not enough, I think you’re going to be very disappointed.

If you are a Kings fan, I think you’re going to be very disappointed.

andy_sims
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January 31, 2025 11:59 am
Reply to  Greg

Assuming that Castle is off the table, Tom Haberstroh suggested

But if the deal is Zach Collins and Keldon Johnson and five first-round picks, I don’t think Sacramento says no to that. It’s going to have to be that caliber of package, because the Spurs aren’t going to put Castle in a deal.

I think that Castle won’t be available, and if we pull him out of Hobby’s proposal, then the number of first-rounders to Sacramento is going to have to go up, I’d think by a minimum of two. Fox is by far the best player available right now, unless you place high value on being old and disruptive.

The Kings are only in a bind if they allow themselves to be. There are another twelve months to work out an appropriate package if Fox is to be traded, and I expect that this is how McNair is approaching it.

Hobby916
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January 31, 2025 12:02 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

If that’s the case, then I would want both the 2025 & 2027 Atlanta picks, which are unprotected, plus the 2025 Spurs pick, the 2031 pick swap back, plus some 2nd rounders. Ask for it all.

SavageBeast
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January 31, 2025 9:49 am

Totally agree on the multiple firsts in any SA deal. The biggest question is what other deals you do if you trade Fox. Do we have to move DD too? Do we still go for Collins with the Jazz?

Last edited 17 days ago by SavageBeast
Hobby916
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January 31, 2025 10:07 am
Reply to  SavageBeast

If they moved Fox for Vassell and Castle + picks, then sent out Huerter and Carter/draft capital for Collins, I think the team would be more balanced and probably have better spacing with Collins and Vassell.

They would be bigger at PG and PF, too. The question would be how much does Castle improve as a shooter, because right now he needs a lot of work.

TheGrantNapear
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January 31, 2025 10:49 am
Reply to  SavageBeast

My hunch is that if Fox is traded no other major moves would be made. I’d think the FO would want to see how the new team performs and make moves accordingly in the off season.

SelecaoKOJ
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January 31, 2025 10:08 am

I don’t know if Orlando was mentioned.

Sac: Fox and Murray to Orlando
Orl: Cole Anthony, Issac and Wagner and 25’and 27 first round picks to Sac.

Highly doubtful Magic trade Wagner.
Though.

Jack
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January 31, 2025 10:22 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

Fox and Colby Jones for Vassell Sochan and Champagnie
Huerter for Valanciunas
Starters: Monk, Vassell, Derozan, Murray, Sabonis. Backups Carter, Ellis, Champagnie, Sochan/Lyles, Valanciunas.
I heard Derozan doesn’t want to stay if Fox is traded. He has said all along he wants to end his playing time in Toronto so Derozan for RJ Barrett. You now can slot Barrett into Derozan’s spot.

Jack
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January 31, 2025 10:33 am
Reply to  Jack

I forgot picks at least 2 first rounders but I prefer 3.

Adamsite
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January 31, 2025 10:23 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

If you are sending out Fox AND Murray, I’d insist on Franz, Suggs, and Black/daSilva as the starting point and go from there. I’m not too interested in Orlando’s picks, as they are likely going to be late 20’s for the next few years.

SMF-PDXConnection
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January 31, 2025 10:36 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

Keep Isaac far away from this team.

TheGrantNapear
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January 31, 2025 10:55 am

Isaac is on a great contract 4/$59, one of the best defenders in the game and fills a major need. By all accounts he’s a good teammate. So what’s the problem?

Hobby916
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January 31, 2025 10:58 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Some people don’t like his faith and personal beliefs.

Adamsite
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January 31, 2025 11:02 am
Reply to  Hobby916

I don’t like his injury history.

Hobby916
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January 31, 2025 11:08 am
Reply to  Adamsite

That is concerning. His 3pt % is also not ideal.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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January 31, 2025 12:48 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

It’s always about his injury history. Always. The other stuff is just click bait.
He can defend well when he’s on the court. Orlando gave him a nice contract based on his play.

He’s in his 8th season: he’s played 248 games 248/8 = 31/season). He’s averaging 16 mpg currently.

Therefore – he’s a 6’10” plus defender, good rebounder, on minutes restriction with minus offense production. A 3rd/4th/5th big off the bench.

Needle move value: Meh

Jack
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January 31, 2025 11:13 am
Reply to  Adamsite

I can go along with that. Makes sense.

Jack
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January 31, 2025 11:12 am
Reply to  Hobby916

So what? I,m a Christian and have a lot of friends. He doesn’t flant it so what’s the problem. And to he could help us. Isn’t that’s what is all about.

Hobby916
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January 31, 2025 11:33 am
Reply to  Jack

I don’t have an issue with with his faith. I just that some people have an issue with what he believes.

MillersCornrows
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January 31, 2025 8:34 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

He pals around with far-right Christian nationalist preachers. Who knows…he might still be a team player and fit in well. He refused to bow to the “woke mob” lol…

Last edited 17 days ago by MillersCornrows
TheGrantNapear
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January 31, 2025 11:25 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Every player has a unique set of beliefs, after all they’re human, just because they may not align with mine or yours personal beliefs doesn’t mean I woudn’t want them to be on the team I root for. If they’re a good teammate that’s what matters.

Hobby916
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January 31, 2025 11:32 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

I agree. He has never done anything off the court like Miles Bridges, etc. I like the guy. I like that he sticks to his guns and goes through his life how he thinks is best.

Jack
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January 31, 2025 1:01 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Thanks for your clarification.

SMF-PDXConnection
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January 31, 2025 11:35 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Injury history and bad offense. 25% from 3 this season on 2.6 attempts per game. It would be one of the few moves this team could make to somehow worsen the spacing.

TheGrantNapear
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January 31, 2025 10:52 am
Reply to  SelecaoKOJ

Sac: Fox and Murray to Orlando

Orl: Cole Anthony, Issac and Wagner and 25’and 27 first round picks to Sac.

This would be a great trade, especially due to filling that now two year hole of an ideal 4 next to Domas. I also think it’s a fair deal and makes a ton of sense for ORL. A big three of PB, Fox and KM is nothing to sneeze at in the East.

UpgradedToQuestionable
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January 31, 2025 11:09 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

you have to give something to get something.

The Sabonis/Halliburton is a good example of that. The acquisition of FRPs to the “win now” in lieu of talent that improves them today (it can be both) should be a non-starter (pun intended).

And FRPs are, as has been alluded to in multiple terms, a form of Magic Beans.

As for DeMar DeRozan – that situation can be handled in the Off Season (unless an attractive offer persuades you otherwise).

For the first 30 games of this season, under Mike Brown, the Sacramento Kings were underperforming. Losing De’Aaron Fox isn’t a strategy that makes you better. Figure out what the team needs – front court depth,3 and D defenders, a replacement shot creator for De’Aaron Fox (and later on, for DeMar DeRozan), 3 point shooters that can shoot.

FRPs don’t address any of that. Using draft capital to acquire those players to come to Sacramento is a nice dream, the history of this GM office is that it is unlikely to work out as hoped.

TheGrantNapear
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January 31, 2025 10:47 am

The post all us ARM Chair GM’s have been waiting for!
Thanks Giraffe.

Trade deadline is a week away, I doubt Fox gets traded. I doubt we make one move and just push things into the offseason.

Jack
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January 31, 2025 11:15 am
Reply to  TheGrantNapear

Then be prepared to not get into the post season.

TheGrantNapear
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January 31, 2025 11:26 am
Reply to  Jack

Used to it lol.

ForKingsandCountry
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January 31, 2025 11:56 am
Reply to  Jack

That’s already a given at this point.

RobHessing
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January 31, 2025 10:49 am

The fact that this is even a conversation so quickly after the 22-23 season is a testament to the flaccid leadership of the organization.

Is it easier to build the top of the roster or the middle? I would argue that it is harder to build the top, and I base that on 40 years of watching a team that is more often than not a poor excuse for an NBA franchise. But no, we’re going to gut the top and build out from the middle.

Additionally (and more importantly), the manner in which this organization manages to embarrass itself is telling. From the handling of the Brown dismissal to the Fox situation, this is a group that is a mismanagement nightmare, a group that is easily played while simultaneously exhibiting an amazing amount of hubris.

In 40 years, De’Aaron Fox will still be a top 10 Sacramento King, and perhaps top 5, depending on your criteria. And aside from the trade that will likely not bring back a player of his caliber, the organization has failed to give him the courtesy and respect that he so richly deserves after toiling here for going on eight years. Yes, he has been paid well. But is there an employee among us that does not want to feel valued by its employer? Is there an employee among us that does not want to be a member of a successful team? Is there an employee among us that does not want simple respect?

I have thoroughly enjoyed De’Aaron Fox the player and De’Aaron Fox the community member. He has been a fine face of this franchise and this city. If he goes, I will miss him dearly, and I will root for him wherever he goes. He’s one of the good ones, and his type of player and person has been the rare, rare exception around here.

Last edited 17 days ago by RobHessing
Kfan
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January 31, 2025 11:02 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Well Said!

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January 31, 2025 11:16 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Is it easier to build the top of the roster or the middle?

The way I see it, the first step has to be building a solid ownership and management group. With poor top-level management, trying to operate any organization is like building your house’s foundation on quicksand. Poor top-level management has been the unfortunate reality for the entire Sacramento duration of this franchise. We lucked out that the Maloofs, as crappy as they were/are as business people, were at least smart enough to stay out of the way of a competent executive (Petrie). Vivek, even if he had a competent executive, doesn’t appear to be smart enough to do the same. Of course there’s really no way to “build a solid ownership and management group”. That group either comes in already-solid, or maybe they learn along the way (Vivek clearly hasn’t), or they remain as incompetent as the day they arrived (Vivek clearly has). As fans, I think the best we can do is be vocal about our discontent, and refrain from giving this ownership any more of our money – they haven’t earned it.

Adamsite
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January 31, 2025 11:18 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Great post, Rob. Agreed on all points.

nonstripedzebra
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January 31, 2025 12:31 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

I think that league exception comes from frankly a rare admittance of where this team is in regards to the context of the league. I have advocated for a necessary pragmatic rebuild since I was like 14 on Sactown Royalty. I’m 32 now and I feel the point still stands and the lessons of avoidance evident.

We’ve justified trades no one else would, drafted picks in their fit to below 30 win teams or who weren’t on others bigboards, added inflated midlevels to buoy a meddling squad time and time and time again. This era, yes broke a league embarrassing streak, but it also seems to perpetuate a mediocrity even after that. And lest we forget that’s not really an achievement.

And that brings us to today. Here’s the spade as I see it, in a win now context no trade return will likely be better in the aggregate. Stars fetch future assets or 75 cents to the dollar. We also have an in prime squad that’s window is realistically capped and rapidly closing. And the majority and consensus seems to advocate for grasping on a lucid chance of bottom seed playoff finishing than admit whats staring us in the face.

We have a position of strength if we admit it. We have attractive pieces in a market context. If this team for once stripped to the studs by trading off its best over the next two years they could have one of the best asset pools in the league. All while most are exiting that phase or seeking being competitive.

Alas I see us avoiding such leverage as we have time and time again.

Last edited 17 days ago by nonstripedzebra
RPO
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January 31, 2025 10:50 am

Lots of trade possibilities but I get increasingly nervous as we get closer to the deadline and we no indication of the FO actually strongly pursuing anything. I seriously fear that the FO will do nothing (again…) or that they’ll get paltry return in a Fox trade. I just don’t trust this FO at all.

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January 31, 2025 10:58 am
Reply to  RPO

And 1 ‐ the apparent near-acquisition of John Collins last week just heaps more doubt on this FO’s ability to do things right. This was apparently “a deal that got so close that the Kings brass reportedly informed their players the move was taking place before ultimately falling through.” Sheesh, can you imagine getting your players that worked up, only to tell them shortly afterward “just kidding!”. I don’t blame Collins at all for saying “But I’m kind of happy I just didn’t have that news — sorry, nothing against Sacramento — just kind of happy I didn’t have that news hit my phone.”

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January 31, 2025 11:01 am
Reply to  RPO

And in informing the players, did they tell the guys that were getting dealt (bad), or did they leave everyone on pins and needles (worse)?

What a fucking shitshow.
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January 31, 2025 11:12 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Here’s the thing that I totally don’t get about that. The kings don’t even tell players when they’re firing a coach or trading other players. We’ve seen that historically time and time again. So if this is really true, why would the Kings possibly tell the players they were going to trade for someone if the deal hadn’t been done? Maybe this is more accurate than I think, but honestly this just doesn’t ring true to the way that this organization works. I’ve never once heard of them overcommunicating.

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January 31, 2025 11:17 am
Reply to  SavageBeast

It seemed odd to me as well. Why tell players they will be a trade and leave them all hanging by not knowing who is going out? What a horrible way to build team chemistry. I wonder if it was just something small like telling them there may be a 10-day deal coming in on that last roster spot.

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January 31, 2025 11:39 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Right. Or maybe Christie, trying to lift team spirits told them something more generic like they were getting some bench help or something. I just totally didn’t buy anyone in the Kings org. telling players about a deal that would have to involve players going out about a deal prior to it being done. In all my time following this team I didn’t ever recall that happening.

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January 31, 2025 11:21 am
Reply to  RobHessing

By “informed their players” I got the sense that they told all the players, and mentioned which players were getting dealt. I could be wrong. I’m not sure if doing this is better or worse than the options you mentioned.

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January 31, 2025 11:15 am

Just saw this proposal from a Toronto based page. It defnintlejhy give me Carmelo Anthony vs. Denver vibes, but was something I hadn’t seen before.

Toronto gets: Fox, Colby Jones, McLaughlin, McDermott
Kings get: Grady Dick, Ochai Agbaji, Boucher, Bruce Brown, Indy’s 2026 first (protected 1-4) Toronto’s 2026 first unprotected.

I guess it boils down to two rookie scale prospects in Dick and Agbaji (who are pretty solid but redundant), the 2 first rounders and the large expirings of Boucher and Brown. I guess it’s not the worst idea, but still doesn’t fill the holes at the 4/5 spot longterm.

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January 31, 2025 11:19 am
Reply to  Adamsite

that’s not “star type stuff”

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January 31, 2025 11:29 am
Reply to  eddie41

I don’t think the Kings are getting “star type stuff” in any Fox deal. That’s why I mentioned it felt like the Carmelo deal to the Knicks.

Also, no team is going to trade for him unless they get a guarantee from Klutch that he’s gonna sign an extension, much like the Carmelo deal. Monte has lost leverage.

I’m also gonna keep saying it until I’m blue in the face. Fox is a bigger star here in Sac than he is in the league. Out there he’s grouped with dudes like the Maxey or Herro, not guys like Luka or SGA.

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January 31, 2025 1:18 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

we might need a definition for “star type stuff”

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January 31, 2025 1:08 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

If it looks like Toroto might want to do some trading. What about Derozan for Barrett. Demar has said he wants to end his career in Toronto. This might be his chance if Toronto is willing.

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January 31, 2025 1:10 pm
Reply to  Jack

Toronto hangs up on that offer. Barrett is doing quite will for them and is still just 24.

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January 31, 2025 11:31 am

To factor into the conversations on possible trades and the timing, we finally have a balanced, insightful and refreshing piece on what may be going on with the Kings, Fox and his agent. Looks like someone has done their homework.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rich-paul-wants-deaaron-fox-rumors-out-now-and-timing-shows-how-players-have-lost-leverage-with-nbas-new-cba/

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January 31, 2025 11:44 am
Reply to  CastlePeak

Thanks for linking. Interesting stuff.

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January 31, 2025 11:50 am
Reply to  CastlePeak

Good read.

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January 31, 2025 1:41 pm
Reply to  CastlePeak

Enlightening, to be sure

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February 1, 2025 7:33 am
Reply to  CastlePeak

That’s a great article.

I’ll say it again, I’ll never understand the animosity fans have for players/agents who are trying to control their future.

NorCalKingsFan
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February 1, 2025 1:56 pm
Reply to  Marty

I’ll say it again, I’ll never understand the animosity fans have for players/agents who are trying to control their future.

Players can switch teams…fans can’t.

No matter how much a fan might understand a player’s motivations and reasoning for wanting out, it still hurts to be told “I don’t want you.”

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January 31, 2025 11:39 am

Good contractual breakdown from Bobby Marks who looks at any Fox trade from all angles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1SS...

(@bmarksespn.bsky.social) 2025-01-31T19:27:08.238Z

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January 31, 2025 6:54 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Good stuff. Listed to the Bobby Marks interview today with Jason Ross and CD on 1140. It was really good with a balanced perspective. He has a wealth of knowledge and experience and you can tell he does his work. Definitely not the lazy “Kings are going to hell” commentary we have been hearing from many others.

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January 31, 2025 11:41 am

I still can’t get over the fact that (reportedly) Brown was vetoing trades. If true that explains a lot including why nothing has gotten done in the last 2 years. If I was Monte I wouldn’t want to hold a press conference for a co-worker who has been fucking up my work. Why even employ Monte if Brown can veto him?

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January 31, 2025 11:45 am

Seriously. If that rumor is true and MB was blocking trades for “low basketball IQ” and then he basically REFUSED to play Keon…well who has the low BB IQ?

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January 31, 2025 11:51 am

It’s hard to know if he “vetoed” them or said he didn’t like the player and explained why. Maybe that convinced the front office to pivot to other players?

Ideally, the Coach and GM need to be in lock step when it comes to personnel. What type of players are they both looking for, and how will they be used in the scheme. I don’t think Brown and Monte were on the same page when it came to personnel. Then we have to factor in how much Vivek was involved in basketball operations.

The organization is just not cohesive. Monte and Wes interviewed for the GM job. They picked Monte. Wes was then hired as his assistant…? So the guy you won the job over is now a voice in the room as well. That could lead to some interesting dynamics.

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January 31, 2025 11:56 am
Reply to  Hobby916

Yeah, if Monte simply wanted to bend Brown’s ear on a possible Collins move, that’s totally fine. I’d hope any GM would get input from his coach, or even star players, on a big move. It may not be a “too many cooks in the kitchen” situation, but rather just a gathering of opinions.

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January 31, 2025 12:33 pm

There’s a lot of disinformation out there at the moment.

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January 31, 2025 1:12 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

That’s just not true!!!

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January 31, 2025 6:56 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Indeed.

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February 1, 2025 7:35 am

Seems to me leaking “Brown was vetoing trades” makes the front office appear less incompetent, so for that reason alone I wouldn’t trust the leak.

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January 31, 2025 11:59 am

I don’t think SA will give up Castle. I’d be happy with Vassell/Sochan and three firsts for Fox/Huerter. Kings leverage goes down by the day. Strike now if you’re going to do anything.

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January 31, 2025 12:04 pm
Reply to  Mike120

My hunch is that no deal will materialize because Monte and Wes are going to be fired shortly. A new GM will be hired to either appease Fox and Klutch, or someone that is more competent to make that Fox deal, which will include many picks.

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January 31, 2025 12:03 pm

I love Adam’s Spurs deal. Not sure how Fox/Castle works for them, but that’s their problem if they have to keep him. They need to move those picks; let’s get em. Sochan at the 4, DeMar at the 2 (cause nobody’s taking him), Collins a more legit 4/5 sub, and two legit energy wings. Murray back to the 3, shooting 3’s. No more 36-38 minutes per game with that bench. Collins, Champagnie, K Johnson, and Ellis are physical. Add Carter and you’re 10 deep. That’s balance. I truly enjoyed Fox’s unique game. I can close my eyes and see him do that snake dribble under the screen, stop on a dime like nobody else, and launch a soft fall away. I’m glad I got to see it every night. But the FO’s job is to win. Right? Hope so.

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January 31, 2025 12:06 pm
Reply to  Corneroffense

Trade DeMar in the offseason. He has 2 years left on the deal after this season, but that 3rd year is minimally guaranteed.

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January 31, 2025 12:09 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I think DeMar can still be apart of a Jimmy deal as the third team. Warriors are still my pick to land Butler.

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January 31, 2025 12:17 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Definitely on board for that too. That plus the inevitable Draymond/Jimmy fistfight.

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January 31, 2025 2:50 pm
Reply to  Corneroffense

I would pay good money to see Draymond finally get some karma.

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January 31, 2025 12:10 pm

You can feel however you want, but the Gobert deal is where the starting point should be for Sacramento. There’s always wiggle room in negotiations, but if you go in asking for half a loaf, you’re going to leave with a couple of slices.

Ask for all of it. then grudgingly give minor ground if the return begins to look right. The Kings have a year to figure this out, and the facts are, it may not even be a thing if Fox re-signs because he can make a ton more money here.

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January 31, 2025 12:17 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I don’t know, Sims, Minny went all in for a title run and overpaid (thanks Ainge) for a then 3 time DPOY. Fox doesn’t have that kind of unique skillset. He’s a gifted scorer, and that’s about it. DPOY types don’t grow on trees. There are a lot more dudes who can average 25PPG than can be a 7 time All-Defensive first team. Gobert’s uniqueness is unlike Fox.

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January 31, 2025 12:50 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I agree that return is wishful. That said I do look at Ainge’s handling of that predicament as insightful. A reality that if we hit reset we could fetch a similar collective haul for the likes of Fox, Domas, Demar, Monk as was garnered in Mitchell and Rudy’s Utah firesale is conceivable. Let it also be known Utah came to those terms with far more success then this core has had and understood the dangers of holding on to relevancy once the lynchpin of that success was gone.

I think a pragmatic dismantling of this team actually could leverage a pretty quick reset the likes of Houston is experiencing, and or with the asset haul of Utah. More than a handful of firsts, young players and expirings all in a league that’s majority is seeking W’s and is not rebuilding.

But I expect us to avoid that option as we have avoided that option regardless of a familiarity of losing time and time again. Actively understanding the benefits of such a reality takes one to admit that’s where you are and this franchise and frankly many of its fans have avoided that reality for more than a decade.

l look forward to a putrid 60 cent return for Fox that aids at best 45 wins for two years only to then pose similar questions instead of understanding where our leverage could be by approaching such trades in an entirely different lense.

Last edited 17 days ago by nonstripedzebra
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January 31, 2025 1:09 pm

I don’t disagree with any of this. A hard reset an liquidation of current assets could bring in quite the haul, much like current rebuilds around the league have show us. Just my opinion, but I think we may see more this kind of strategy with the new CBA. Maxing out fringe stars is apron approaching, play-in tourney purgatory. It’s looking lie if you don’t have a top 10 superstar that you are willing to pay the tax and apron penalties on, you might as well re-tool until you can get one, otherwise what is the point of spending.

Much like our society, there is a shrinking middle class in the NBA. Either you are all in for contention or rebuilding to make that leap. There is no place for middling tax approaching teams unless you enjoy 1st round exits.

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January 31, 2025 1:19 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Fox is years younger than Gobert was at the time of the trade, and in addition to scoring, is getting six assists and five boards per game. He’s also good for a couple of steals and multiple deflections in any given game. The notion that he’s a one-dimensional player is facile.

Gobert is a lock for the Hall of Fame, and if I had to guess, Fox won’t be. Gobert earned that distinction long before he left Utah, whereas Fox is in his prime, so it can’t be ruled out entirely. You can still have one hell of a career without that distinction.

Fox is an objectively better player than Mikal Bridges, and to set Fox’s price any lower than the Bridges deal would be malpractice. That’s the bar. Like I said, you allow some room for movement in negotiating, but a lot of the offers I’m reading here are flat-out capitulations. The Kings are not in a corner, and given that they have the asset being sought, they have the upper hand.

Any deal that doesn’t enrich the assets of the organization in total is a non-starter. McNair needs to be like George Costanza at a car dealership.

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January 31, 2025 1:25 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Fair point, but those two trades (Gobert and Bridges) were completed between teams that were outright tanking and the others all in on title runs. That’s a unique situation.

Until the is evidence that the Kings are willing to blow everything up and a contender is willing to overpay for their parts, I don’t see that kind of return for Fox.

My gut, as evidenced by Vivek’s continued unwillingness to do a proper rebuild, is that Monte is looking for competitive pieces in return for Fox and not magic beans.

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February 1, 2025 7:36 am
Reply to  andy_sims

McNair after missing out on another deal

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January 31, 2025 1:01 pm

This is going to end with nothing be done, the Kings floundering and reaching for the play-in, then Fox demanding a trade in the summer. Monte will lose any leverage he may currently have.

Rumor has it the Kings are still star hunting, meaning names outside of San Antonio, in a De'Aaron Fox deal.Sounds like all eyes are on Sacramento right now.

Matt George (@mattgeorgesac.bsky.social) 2025-01-31T20:54:09.598Z

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January 31, 2025 1:05 pm
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Zach Lavine incoming in 3…2…1…

Get the 23-24 Bulls back together!

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January 31, 2025 1:13 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

That really wouldn’t surprise me at this point. Still no one is tradeing for Fox unless they get approval from Klutch that he will sign an extension. I’m not sure what in it for Fox to go to Chicago. They are kind of Sacramento East right now in terms of contracts and assets.

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January 31, 2025 1:35 pm
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Fox to the Spurs, Lavine to sac, and something to Chicago. Hearing there is a 4 team deal being discussed right now

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January 31, 2025 2:21 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Inserting LaVine into the lineup with Monk and DDR would be a completely lateral move and would accomplish nothing.

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January 31, 2025 1:38 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I remember that exercise you did a while ago where you listed stats and asked people to rank them blindly. I had the stats of Herro, Ball, and Lavine above Fox.

The defense would terrible with Lavine and Monk in the backcourt, then add DeMar in to that and good luck stopping anybody.

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January 31, 2025 2:52 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

This is going to end with nothing be done, the Kings floundering and reaching for the play-in

Which would be right on-brand for this front office.

Zorcon
January 31, 2025 1:11 pm

Thanks for including my trade proposal in the article. It was partly used to provide an opportunity to use a 3rd team to get what we want/need.
Since you are not on the Cam Johnson band wagon, make it John Collins.

Kings get: John Collins, Castle, Vassell (or Sochan) and one or two firsts (if we think 2 can happen)

Spurs get: Fox

Jazz get: Huerter, Lyles and one of the first round picks we got for Fox.

I just switched the Jazz and Collins rather than Brooklyn and Cam Johnson.

Word on the street is that Kings and Jazz already seem to be in on the Kings/Jazz deal. Let’s just get the spurs involved as well to help us pay for Collins AND get some additional players, pick.

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January 31, 2025 1:28 pm
Reply to  Zorcon

I have a question for anyone who wants to reply. Question: If the only holdup between the Kings and Spurs is Stephon Castle why not the trade be Devin Vassell(instead of Castle) Already Vassell a proven player whereas Castle is not as of now. Vassell right now can help the Kings achieve there goal. He would be the starting shooting guard or small forward. My trade would be Vassell Sochan and Champagnie and 2 or 3 firsts.

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January 31, 2025 1:29 pm
Reply to  Jack

PS We send out Fox and Colby Jones.

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January 31, 2025 1:35 pm
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If Castle is off the table I want 4 picks which would include Atlanta’s picks and the Spurs 2025 pick.

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January 31, 2025 2:05 pm
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One interesting thing is that if we get more first round picks, it let’s us trade some of our own. So if we had a 26 ATL pick, we could trade our 26 pick.

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January 31, 2025 1:31 pm

From discocricket:
SAC: a bag of chips & some hope
The Unemployment Line: Monte McNair, Wes Wilcox, Matina Kolokotronis, Vivek’s kids

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January 31, 2025 1:45 pm

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Waiting for trade news.

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January 31, 2025 1:48 pm

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January 31, 2025 1:52 pm
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January 31, 2025 1:55 pm
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January 31, 2025 2:00 pm
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January 31, 2025 2:03 pm
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January 31, 2025 2:06 pm

Last one
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January 31, 2025 2:07 pm
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January 31, 2025 2:08 pm
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January 31, 2025 2:09 pm
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RPO
January 31, 2025 2:50 pm
Reply to  RobHessing

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Carl
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January 31, 2025 2:54 pm
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Corneroffense
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January 31, 2025 2:00 pm

Pop/RC Buford=The Good. Ainge=The Bad. Vivek/Monte=The Ugly.

nonstripedzebra
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January 31, 2025 2:15 pm
Reply to  Corneroffense

That said Eli Wallach is the coolest of the three. Those who know, know

NorCalKingsFan
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January 31, 2025 6:14 pm

I agree, Tuco was the main character after all; and as the thief he is, stole every scene he was in.

IMO, Ennio Morricone was the real hero. Wah, wah, wah!
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly – The Danish National Symphony Orchestra (Live)

TheBaker
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January 31, 2025 2:47 pm

The suspense it terrible… I hope it will last.

Thursday, February 6th, 2025 cannot come soon enough.

Jack
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January 31, 2025 3:30 pm
Reply to  TheBaker

Fox and C. Jones for Vassell Sochan, Champagnie, 3 firsts each one at 2025, 2026 and 2027 and 3 seconds added to the above.
Huerter for Valanciunas
Starters: Monk, Vassell, Derozan, Murray,Sabonis.

Jack
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January 31, 2025 3:32 pm
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Backups: Carter, Ellis, Champagnie, Sochan. Valanciunas.

Hobby916
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January 31, 2025 5:33 pm
Reply to  Jack

Better lower your expectations on the return for Fox, its going to beuch lower than expected. The league doesn’t value Fox like most people in Sac do, which is way too high, imo.

I now think they get something like Lavine and a bench guy plus 2 picks.

Last edited 17 days ago by Josh Hobson
Hudson101