Welcome back to Chainmail! We had some great questions this week, so let’s dive right in, shall we?
From andy_sims:
Why do you think that so many people insist that the Kings had a good offer for the #4 pick, despite there being absolutely no evidence of such a great deal?
Will: I’m just going to assume they’re basing their logic on reports from sourced insiders and a general feeling of “well, most years there are good deals in these situations”. I’d be curious to be in the Piston’s draft room on the day of reckoning because it feels like that lack of “great deals” stemmed from Detroit being happy with both Ivey and Murray as a return and wound up with the guy they were just a bit higher on. This is my opinion here but judging on everything we heard and saw from Monte after the draft, I think they price tag for #4 was high and the price tag for the Kings to pass specifically on Murray was even higher, leaving Detroit as their only sure partner and one that was too content with either outcome to be motivated into giving up a good haul.
I’m sure there were deals, I’d probably wager there were deals I’d take based on my own perceived value of Keegan Murray… I just think the front office is far higher on him than many Kings fans like myself are (or, at least, were) and that disconnect caused anger in some.
[For reference, personally, I’m fine with the Murray pick. Wasn’t sexy, there weren’t fireworks… but I think he’s going to be a very good player in this league.]
Tim: The feeling that the Kings should have had a trade-back offer ready to go for Keegan Murray is probably more derived from frustration than reality. Jeremy Woo of Sports Illustrated mentioned that the Pacers had an offer in the range of sophomore Chris Duarte and the 6th pick for number four, but Woo also reported that the Kings would have lost out on Murray in that situation. If that was the case, I’m glad the Kings passed.
I’m probably higher on Keegan than a good chunk of fans out there, but I think it’s also important to recognize the fact that Murray was probably either going with the 4th or 5th pick, regardless of who was selecting at that time. The Kings valued Murray more than a combination of something like Dyson Daniels and Chris Duarte, and I can’t blame them for that. Keegan has real two-way star potential in my book, and I’m a big believer of getting your guy, rather than sacrificing your target for additional assets.
To put it simply, the Pistons knew the Kings were bluffing and the Kings couldn’t do a damn thing about it.
From RikSmits:
Why are some people hurrying to extend Monte McNair’s contract? Why can’t it wait until after the AS break/trade deadline?
Will: I think like many other things with the Kings, it just feels like something Vivek-y is up when you have a guy making massive, franchise altering decisions that could make or break the next 5-7 years of the team and if each side stays the course he’d just be gone at the end of the season. He’s been allowed to trade away a valuable young piece for an All-Star, he’s been allowed to pick two coaches, he’s been given the A-OK after a coup attempt from Vivek’s advisor, so what’s the logic in not allowing at least some continuation of the course and give the guy an extra year or so. Obviously, Monte’s track record isn’t spotless and with Wes Wilcox ‘always in the shadows’ it might just be easier to transition Wes into the main chair if Monte doesn’t reach their internal benchmarks without rocking the boat too much. It’d be real easy for a Woj or a Shams to simply say at season’s end that “McNair valued other opportunities and with Wilcox being instrumental in the selection of head coach Mike Brown, the transition is seen within the organization to be seamless.”
The Kings are the Kings. I think at this point Monte’s enacted his will on the team enough that he should be allowed some freedom to see it through, but I also don’t see him as a GM so good that he couldn’t be replaced by a better candidate immediately come next summer. Sure, people say a lot that he’s “the best GM since Geoff Petrie”… but I’ve seen coffins in holes higher than that bar.
Tim: Stability is something that has been long sought in Sacramento because of the constant turnaround of high-level employees. Consider the fact that in nine years, Vivek Ranadive has blown through a handful of advisors, seven head coaches, and three General Managers. There’s something to be said for “hey, this guy hasn’t screwed up as royally as the others, so maybe we keep him around before Vivek picks someone worse (Mark Jackson as Senior President of Basketball Operations, anyone???).” I get that.
At the same time, as Rik pointed out, management contracts in the NBA work differently than those of players. The Kings don’t have to rush out and lock Monte down. He’s not a star player; he’s not some highly sought-after GM candidate that teams would stampede over one another to secure. If the Kings fired Monte tomorrow, he would be back as an assistant GM somewhere around the league.
If it was up to me, Monte wouldn’t be discussing a new deal until I saw this team fighting for the 8th seed (and really fighting for it, not hoping catastrophic injuries hit every team above us) at the All-Star break. If McNair can push a team from 30 wins to 42-ish, he’s done enough for me. If not, move onto the next candidate.
From Hobby916:
Who is going to start next to Fox in the backcourt? Is that player currently on the roster?
Will: The likely answers are either Davion or Donte DiVincenzo. “Likely” is rarely a sexy concept, but that’s just what it is. Could I see Victor Oladipo on a make-good deal? Sure. But I don’t trust his injury history and it feels very Kings to sign a name like Vic and play a grand total of 25 good games with him: 15 to start the season with hype, 5 near the All-Star Break after returning from an injury then 5 during a late season push to get to the 10th seed before shutting him down at his agent’s request. The Kings aren’t operating with much in the way of space to make moves at the time of this writing, so all things being equal, we’re taking the simplest answer here.
Tim: If Victor Oladipo is in a Kings uniform and starting on opening night, I’m going to lose my freaking mind. He can’t stay on the court. He’s 30-years old, and he’s averaged 20 games per season over the last three years. A team like Sacramento should not toss their MLE at such a high-risk, low-reward player like Oladipo.
Okay, stepping down from the soap box now. Davion Mitchell should be the odds-on favorite to start next to De’Aaron Fox at the beginning of the year, although there should be some dark horse odds for Terence Davis as well. Donte DiVincenzo is certainly an option as well, although I fear a significant overpay for a player of his caliber.
From TyrekeFan18:
Who are some of your favorite free agent targets with the assets that we have?
Will: This is gonna be a bit rough. I’d be happy with either of the Martin brother’s coming over to fill a Garrett Temple style role in Sacramento, as two guys who have had to grind to get to where they are and who can play SF and shoot well from deep. I’m assuming they may cost a bit too much to have them play a bench role and unless Harrison Barnes is suddenly sent away for John Collins, I don’t see that spot opening up for them. Would the Kings let DDV go to give a shot to a guy like Lonnie Walker IV? I can’t expect that with the efforts McNair and Co. went through to get the guy for a second time. Josh Okogie is a guy that definitely fits the Monte mold, while being cost effective. He and Davion could really frustrate the hell out of backcourts off the bench with their defense if DDV is starting, but if Off-Night has himself a big time jump this off-season… a DiVincenzo/Okogie bench backcourt might be a bit too rough offensively to stomach. Malik Monk would be interesting, I’d jump at the chance to get Lu Dort if the Thunder decide they need more room for their other younglings to play. With the money the Kings do have, the pickins’ might be a bit slim.
Tim: Bruce Brown would be my number one target for the Kings. Although he’s listed at just 6′ 4″, he plays much bigger than his size, and he would probably be the safest option out there as the backup wing for this roster. Brown is historically not a good or high-volume shooter, but he did knock down 40% of his 1.4 attempts per game last season. If he could replicate something similar and maybe bump up his shot frequency a hair, Brown’s two-way play could be a nice pickup for Monte McNair.
If the Kings didn’t have seventy billion power forwards on the roster, with perhaps one more coming over from the EuroLeague, throwing a deal at Jalen Smith would interest me, but I don’t think his representation would appreciate the logjam at forward. Gary Payton II, TJ Warren (of course), and Derrick Jones Jr. also might be smaller-contract targets as well.
From jay14bay:
Kangz have to win more regular season games than 5 western conference teams to make the play-in. Assuming we make it to the 10 seed, name those teams. (to me 4 are obvious but the fifth is not)
Will: Houston is going to tank another year, as will Oklahoma City and now it sounds like the Spurs are getting more and more desperate for ol’ Victor Wembanyama by the day. So there’s the three most obvious ones – though I’d never count the Spurs out until I see their corpse go into the ground. I can assume you’re maybe thinking of Portland next but I really do see them as improved enough to get up into the 9/10 area. Same with the Lakers, sad to say. They’re a shitshow, but if anyone is going to focus a group like their current roster, Darvin Ham is that man. They’ll be motivated to make changes quick in this start off like they ended last season so I can’t count on them either to be sub-Kings. Minny could drop off with D-Lo seemingly not enjoying his Wolves experience, Utah could decide for a one year slip after trading a guy like Rudy Gobert, Denver would go into the absolute pit if Nikola Jokic took a bad knee-to-knee.
I like your optimism, love the hope… I just can’t point to any team outside of any intentional bottom feeders and say “these fools are going to suck”. For the hell of it, just to complete the exercise you’ve set before us… the remaining two are LA (because screw the Lakers, always) and the Nuggets after Jokic gets bruised up.
Tim: This was part of everyone’s issue with Sacramento’s draft night, right? Quite a few teams around their range got significantly better through trades and selections, while the Kings made an “easy” choice at four and punted the rest of the night. There was nothing substantially gained outside of Keegan Murray, and relying on a rookie, even with one of Keegan’s pedigree, to be a big-time difference-maker in year one may be a big ask for the young stud.
Buuuuuut since you’re making me do this exercise, I’ll say Oklahoma City, Houston, San Antonio, Portland (Dame asks out halfway through the year), and New Orleans (Zion doesn’t play much and the Pelicans…flounder…throughout the year).
Thanks for answering my question, fellas. Mitchell seems like the type of player to pair with Fox. Hopefully they both increase their 3pt shot and Fox decides to play more defense.
I think Mitchell and Fox is a much worse combo than Hali and Fox.
The truth is Fox is just a tough guy to find a perfect match for. But yes, I’d say in theory Hali is a better match skillset-wise.
Hali is gone and they did not win anything either . Only one of the 3 led his college team to a championship .
Only one of them was in college for 4 years (playing 3) and “led” is pretty debatable since he played second chair to Butler.
So MVP of championship and first team all conference was 2 nd chair . Got it .
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE HALIBURTON but… I’m not so sure this is true.
Hali wasn’t a good defender. Davion is already in the top class at the guard position after 1 season. If he can improve his 3 point shot consistency then it’s a very valid argument that Davion and Fox is better then Hali and Fox.
again… I ABSOLUTELY LOVE HALIBURTON
I hope Davion is paired with Fox . I think he is capable of shaming Fox into more aggressiveness on Defense . Also, like the Idea of one of the Martin twins . Both tough minded and becoming good 3 threats ( also, can guard several positions ) .
I worry about the lack of size in the backcourt with Davion starting next to Fox.
And shooting.
And a ball handler off the bench.
Did you forget Lowry and Van Vleet starting on the Toronto Champs ? Plenty big enough, good enough has yet to be proven . Conley and Mitchell same size .
They had a few other players on that roster.
Kings don’t offer DDV the QO. Not sure what the plan is now.
You think they have a plan?
Okay, I have an oil field I want to sell you in West Sacramento.
I was referring specifically to the SG position. I hope they have deal lined up or maybe DDV simply said he doesn’t want to be here, but it just creates another spot that needs to be filled.
I repeat; The Kings have nothing lined up. They have no deals. They are the dumbasses of the NBA.
Eeehhh give it time. FA has not yet even started.
Have you been watching this team for the past two decades?
I don’t look backwards but forward.
Are you a sports broadcaster or writer? If not, one of these media outlasts should give you a job!! You’re completely on message.
and I don’t blame you one damn bit
I’m tired of this. Go root for the Lakers. I have my own opinion also.
Sucker fans are so 2015
Since DDV was going to be a RFA, he wouldn’t have had much of a choice about whether or not the Kings kept him, regardless of whether or not he wanted to be here.
I know, I just wouldn’t want someone disrupting the chemistry by trying to get theirs, or prove they should be starting.
Chemistry? And isn’t every non-starting player in the NBA trying to prove they should be starting?
Yes, and to some extent you want that from your bench guys. I am referring to negative way it impacts in-game decisions, like Bagley was doing where he wouldn’t make right play if he wasn’t the one to score.
Bagley did not understand the game well enough to suck ass on purpose.
What about Bruce Brown?
I really honestly don’t get this at all. The relationship must be so bad they decided to not offer the QO and tru and make it work.
Still, I think something else is driving this.
If this means J’Sean Tate, Lonnie Walker, or Lou Dort is coming to Sac, I’m okay with this.
It all appears to have been because DDV wasn’t in the starting lineup after his trade. I like DDV, but I don’t want a malcontent on the roster and ultimately I would’ve wanted him to come off the bench so he’s not cool with his role, so be it.
I think his lack of content might have something to do with it. I think there’s another angle at play though. This makes it possible the Kings could carve out cap space now in a way that I didn’t see at all possible before.
it does change the cap- and salary space but does it put the Kings below the cap?
Well, first, the Kings still technically have DDVs Bird rights.
Second, no, as of now, more significant salary like Holmes or Holiday would have to be taken off the books for the Kings to have cap room.
Lou Dort would not be a bad option to replace Donte.
From what I read on HoopsHype is that Donte was upset at the level of the QO and he thinks the Kings were deliberately trying to keep it low.
By dropping the QO, the Kings may be trying to smooth things over as the report said the Kings were still interested in bringing him back.
I actually expect Dante to return.
may sound crazy but I would be shocked if he didn’t.
dod someone slip something in my drink?
The QO is set by the CBA and based on his tenure and salary. I suppose if he does not get a QO, becomes an URFA he could sign for higher salary.
I doubt this is the case. I think the issue is role and they know he’ll be unhappy as a 3rd G.
This is by the far the most likely scenario. DDV was starting 60+ games for a team that went on to win the championship after he got hurt and I think he firmly sees himself as a starter. The problem is that he will likely sign for same amount he would’ve taken from the Kings to come off the bench somewhere else.
Same amount of money and not on the Kings. He wins.
How about Bruce Brown?
I’d also be fine w/a Martin twin.
Yeah, me too. I like Caleb, I think BHE prefers Cody.
Yep. Cody is the better all-around player, and that tends to be my thing. Caleb is the better shooter though.
That’s funny, because I view Cody as better all around too but I think Caleb is more disruptive defensively.
I have a slight preference for Cody, but I’d be happy if the Kings signed either 1.
I think Fox needs a shooter next to him and Davion to the second unit. Maybe they see Davion as the starter and DDV as bench.
The free agent class is just not all that good and lacks depth.
why not just give the QO and do a sign and trade?
The guys above are fair-good players but none ought to start next to Fox.
I think Dort is a pretty good partner for Fox, but he still needs to improve his consistency, especially from 3 (he’s a 33% career 3pt but his volume has increased each yr)
Odd decision IMO.
Giving him a QO, means Kings can match any outside offers, right?
Declining the QO, makes him an URFA, so what gives with that?
The “something else”? Planning an offer for someone better and who might that be? Planning a trade and get back a SG and more players than went out?
I fear the dumb-ass, no plan option-
I heard he accused the Kings of trying to downgrade his value by not playing him enough.
Monte better have a plan…I’m starting to see some of Vlade’s “we only want you if you want to be here” mentality…
When you are on a team and there are players that do not want to be on that team, it affects everyone. For this team to move forward and change the culture, they need all the players pulling the rope in the same direction.
I wasn’t super impressed with him anyway. I actually like that McNair can at least potentially pursue someone better. Having middling guys like Lyles on low salaries is good GMing. Having middling guys like DDV on midlevel salaries really isn’t, if you can replace them with a equal and less expensive option or better option for the same money.
I liked DDV, but he might not be a good deal better than TD, who is making 4m/year.
I am with Guru on this one, I would imagine that they have someone they like better for the SG position.
The free agency class is pretty thin there- Olidipo, Harris………
There’s also trades.
The Martin twins.
As I’ve said year after year, I’m mostly doing to hold my tongue until I see how the entire off-season plays out, but this and, IMO, the moves with the 2nd round picks certainly make we think there’s something in the works that will demand an extra roster spot or two.
Key take away: “Makes me think there’s something in the works”
Agreed. Something is brewing.
Maybe he had a better trade two days ago or a better brewing 2 days ago. Hope not.
How does a crap team like the Kings have no salary cap space?
Wait, I forgot.
Kangz
“Why are some people hurrying to extend Monte McNair’s contract? Why can’t it wait until after the AS break/trade deadline?”
Funny question to ask, especially after this:
James Ham
@James_HamNBA
·
18m
According to a league source, the Sacramento Kings will not extend a qualifying offer to shooting guard Donte DiVincenzo. He is now an unrestricted free agent.
Kings clearing salary to go all-in on Malik Monk
Not kidding on this one. I assume Fox has relationship.
I’m leaning way more towards Oladipo
Monk has a ton more upside than Oladipo at this point.
Which is why you’re probably right.
Haha I will never say I would choose Oladipo if I was running things in Kangz land. Just seems like the most Kangz things to do. That or getting Hayward and expecting him to actually stay healthy.
I wonder if this opens enough room to take on a contract like Haywards (with assets returning of course)
I hope so. This seems like a great deal for both teams.
to help push it along, the kings should be offering Miles Bridges 30 million a year for 4 years the second free agency opens up. If they don’t match you get a stud. If they do match then they need to trade Hayward to do so.
They don’t need to. But they’d likely want to.
I think CHA can do both with no assistance, even if it’s not ideal.
Spurs tearing it down. See how it’s done, Sacto?
Declined to make qualifying offer to Divincenzo? Hmm. Maybe it will make sense later, but right now it’s questionable. Perhaps the plan is for Mitchell to start with Fox, meaning the team would need to pick up a point guard to help run the second unit? That’s my best guess.
Speechless. Wasted him for 25 games last year.
If Dante doesn’t re sign which now it looks more likely that he won’t than that will make the Marvin Bagley trade become…
Marvin Bagley for Trey Lyles straight up.
still a good deal
😂
Truth, but why not maximize the best player in that deal to see if you wanted to resign him?
The second half of your sentence answered the first part.
Wasted him? They got to test drive him for 25 games. It didnt work out. I don’t get the teeth gnashing.
They buried him behind Justin Holiday…why?
DDV played 24 more total minutes than Holiday. That’s not the definition of being buried.
Totally, Holiday should have started against the other team’s starters b/c he is an important part of the team’s future and wasn’t signed already for next year.
They must have saw plenty. They see players every day in practice. They see their work ethic, coachability, attitude, how well they get along with their teammates, their professionalism. Maybe DDV is an asshole, I dont know. Maybe they didn’t like how he took care of his business. Maybe he is just an average guy and they have a their eyes set on someone else. Again, I don’t get the teeth gnashing.
I have never heard any of these issues abt DDV. He seemed like a good teammate who played hard and the Kings controlled his future. I hope you’re right that something bigger and better is coming. Monte is on the clock.
As noted above, they still have his Bird Rights, so who knows. Maybe its my age, my being a fan of the NBA since 1978, its hard to get worked up over something like this, without knowing the bigger context. Might be a mistake, I am a fan of DDV and was excited the Kings traded for him, but its hard to think it is going to be a big mistake.
Not extending the qualifying offer Dante is a pretty big thing to dissect. I’m not willing to say “there must be a plan to get someone else in free agency or a trade”. History tells me (especially with Monte’s consistent lack of action over 2 full seasons and three drafts now) that nothing will happen. The reality that I fear and expect is that the Kings are happy with TD as their starting SG. I think it would probably be wise to prepare ourselves for that.
Surely we all hope that there’s a plan. It wouldn’t be completely shocking to me if Dante still signed with the Kings. We’ll just have to wait and see, as usual.
Didn’t he really rock the boat and trade Haliburton (arguably our best player)? I’m not saying he’s just wheeling and dealing all day but the roster looks a lot different than when he started. Not sure I’d say much better, but different.
He also drafted Hali.
FWIW, I would have traded two first rounders and Harrison Barnes for Dejounte, handed him the keys, and then traded Fox for a first rounder and a young kid.
Nope, we’re good!
Two Murrays on one team?
How do you pass that up?
The problem is that, actually, we are not at all good at the moment.
The Spurs are getting three 1st round picks from the Hawks and less of a payroll obligation than Barnes, so I’m guessing that your offer would have been rebuffed.
The Kings picks would have been worth WAY more than Hawks (high first round vs mid to late first round), Barnes is on last year of contract and more valuable than Danilo as trade bait.
So your take is that two Kings picks and Barnes’ $18m contract is more attractive than three Atlanta/Charlotte 1st round picks, a pick swap, and Gallo’s likely $5-6m buyout?
Okie dokie.
Absolutely. Kings are perennial lottery dwellers. Those picks will be gold. And you could flip Barnes for picks in a hot second.
So, just to put a bow on this, you would have sent two unprotected picks (because the picks only have lottery dweller value if they are unprotected) and Harrison Barnes to SA for Murray, knowing that Murray is not under contract any longer than Sabonis (two seasons).
Further, you think that San Antonio is stupid enough to not do the math on what Murray’s impact to the Kings would do to the value of those picks.
Yeah, I think that your deal pales in comparison to Atlanta’s offer, now matter how you slice it up.
Why move on Murray now? He just made an All-Star appearance and appeared healthy for most of the season. The timing seems odd to me.
Because the Spurs know how to do a rebuild…
SA is embracing the tank? Or they have unpublished concerns about DM & sold high?
Rob, am I to take that you are implying there maybe nuance, context, and organizational information the casual fan might not know ten minutes after the trade is announced?
Interesting take.
Kings are awful. They will always screw up and get a high pick. I would sent top-5 protected picks. Hawks picks will be in 20-25 range with Trae and Murray. Hornets pick already had protections So yes, kings could have come up with a better offer
Kings could.
You didn’t.
huh
If we’re doomed to failure (even with Murray who is a stud) then what difference does it make either way? At least in this reality we get to have fun prepping for the draft! What do fans of the Bucks or Jazz do during the past few months?! Ride the wave baby!!
That’s a lot to give up, but if I were choosing between Murray and Fox, the decision would be REALLY easy.
I read whereKnicks wanted Fox and was willing to give the Kings Bennett, Rose and two 2023 first round picks.
Rumblings of the kings being in on a Tobias Harris trade. “If the sixers are looking to move him the kings are a good trade partner”
W/Murray & Barnes on the Kings, that doesn’t make sense to me.
I would assume Barnes would be part of the deal.
NOTE: I’m not saying I’m in favor of that. Just that I don’t see how else the Kings come anywhere close to matching salaries.
That’s probably true, but I wouldn’t want to trade Barnes for Harris b/c I’m not a fan of Harris’ contract.
He is too old.
I have a better idea. Trade Fox to the Knicks for Barrett, Rose and their 2 2023 first rounders. Trade Barnes and our first to the Wizards for Kyle Kuzma. Trade Holmes to the Hornets for Obrue Jr. Pick up Bruce Brown from the Nets in free agency.
Starters: Rose, Brown, Barrett, Kuzma and Sabonis. Backups: Mitchell, Davis, Obrue, Murray and Jones. Please comment. Oh! We also have 2 first round picks ext year.
Well that would make for a busy few weeks to dissect everything haha. But I think that team still sucks. Not worst in the league but not really any better. At least the draft next year would be 🔥🔥
Thanks for the answer to my question, I appreciate the thoughtfulness.
Will, I had a question about the two coaches that McNair has picked. Aside from Brown, to whom are you referring? All I can think of is Gentry finishing the season to give the org time to do a proper coaching search, with the other possibility being the hostage video about Walton’s employment.
I wouldn’t count either of those, but I have to allow that I’ve just forgotten someone.
I would assume that not firing Walton, and having affirming him in the hostage video you referenced, is being counted as hiring him.
Yeah, me too. What do you think? Should inheriting an employee that you can’t actually fire be considered as hiring said employee?
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