On the second night of a back-to-back at home and following their most impressive win of the season over the Cleveland Cavaliers, the Sacramento Kings blew a 19-point lead to the lowly Chicago Bulls on Friday night, dropping to 35-34 on the year. Coby White led all scorers with 35 points, 32 of which came in the second half, while Kevin Huerter scored 11 of his 25 points in the 4th quarter, alongside 5 boards, 7 assists, and 4 steals. Nikola Vucevic was also huge for Chicago, especially in the first half, and he ended the night with 24 points, 14 rebounds, and 8 of his own assists. Malik Monk started off hot, scoring 15 of Sacramento’s first 22 points, finishing with 34 points overall, and DeMar DeRozan and Trey Lyles both put up 22 of their own.
The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly
The Good
Trey Lyles: As mentioned above, Trey Lyles was one of Sacramento’s best players on the floor, outplaying both Jonas Valanciunas and Keegan Murray from the four and five spots. Trey was hitting his treys, knocking down 4 of his 7 attempts, but he also maintained a level of aggression as a slasher, which turned into six free throws, all of which he made. An aggressive Lyles is a good Lyles.
The Bad
Transition Defense: There were quite a few reasons behind Sacramento’s collapse at the Golden 1 Center, but the team’s categorical refusal to get back in fast and secondary break situations was a primary culprit. Despite winning the turnover battle 14-12, Sacramento managed to surrender 25 fast break points to their own eight. Coby White was especially punishing in those situations, simply sprinting by Doug Christie’s defenders for layups and and-ones.
The Ugly
Unserious Basketball: The Sacramento Kings are not a serious organization, nor are they a serious basketball team. The Chicago Bulls are not particularly good, and when the Kings took a 59-40 lead toward the end of the second half at home, ESPN’s game predictor projected their win possibility at 95.8%. They were outscored 88-57 from that point, ultimately losing by 12, a 31-point swing in 27 minutes of game time. The squad certainly gets up for particular games at particular times, but Thursday night’s effort, or lack thereof, is a perfect demonstration as to why they below at the bottom of the play-in tournament.
King of Kings
Fans Who Finished the Game: Any fans out there who finished the game, and who did not have to write a recap, should either be commended or perhaps re-evaluate their life priorities.
Next Up
Saturday, March 22nd vs the Milwaukee Bucks at 7:00 pm PST.
Clowned around and got Bulled!
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Dear Vivek,
Your organization blows.
Sincerely,
Everyone
The Kings are and have been an illogical
mess under Vivek.
So many bad or questionable moves. Trading Hali, rathe then Fox. And 4 another non shooter. 2 best players can’t shoot? How’s that gonna work?
Run O through Sabonis and they seem to have figured out how to deal with the top two players on the team being non-shooters.
and now this team is better without Sabonis on the floor maybe because they don’t even use him anymore.
Because they picked up all these retread hoopster Nothing fits.
It’s a cluster fuck of obvious blunders, and idiocy that could have easily been avoided by anyone with a ????
Last few weeks I’ve started to accept the possibility that Vivek isn’t simply bumbling around – he may intentionally be keeping the team crappy to minimize his salary expenses. It appears that fans will continue to buy season tickets, even for a crappy product, and he’s taking full advantage of that. His intention isn’t to win games and be competitive, it’s to make as much money as he can.
Agree-100. He’s like all these corporate/billionaire fucks-$. All else be damned.
He’s also an ego moron. I think he wants team to be good but not if it costs and by his methods.
And he’s definitely keeping team down-basically siphoning money away from team to himself. It’s gross.
Well, the Kings are 16/30 in total salary in the NBA. Cleveland is 17 so…
Check back next year. Cleveland’s salary is poised to take a big jump, if they want to keep the team together.
I have no reason to believe that he does not want to win.
I have many reasons to believe that he is a terrible head of an NBA team’s basketball operations.
Not even surprised. I actually had a feeling this would happen, it’s just pure Kangz.
For sure. Levine/DDR/Monk all brought in and they can’t play together amd win. It’s a joke of mismatched parts and a misshapen, foolish owner.
At least when they are all healthy we know keon will get his clearly deserved less than 20 min a game…wtf are coaches actually doing with keon lol
I wonder if the coaches are concerned about how many minutes Keon can handle over the course of a full season. He’s at 1546 minutes total so far this season, or 500+ more minutes than he played in any season in college or the NBA. In fact he’s almost at his two-year total for his time at Alabama.
With guys like Coby, White, Westbrook, and Brunson having learned they can put a shoulder into him to clear space, he’s taking a lot more physical punishment this season than he ever has. He’s going to have to find a way to get stronger without losing his quickness.
not saying you are wrong, but that’s absolutely an idiotic reasoning if that’s what they have settled on…much more likely is they are afraid of their players like monk/demar/lavine because this organization has the power structure flipped upside down and everyone knows it.
Zach Levine is such a losing basketball player. I was watching him off the ball and he just doesn’t do any of the little things that lead to winning. He’s just out there to get his numbers.
It makes total sense why this franchise has seemingly been linked to him for so long. Two losers made for each other.
100! I was on the Bulls board. They were so thrilled the Kings took his contract. They can actually start their rebuild now.
And you’d think, at least if you get Levine you’d be smart enough to make Sabonis the hub of your O amd let Levine just score-shoot.
Nope.
Never liked Levine. He is solely a scorer. And bad at most else. Stats. That’s it.
definitely a “one trick pony”
Lots of talent and no heart.
Basically the opposite of some of my all time favorite Kings; Bobby Jackson, Doug Christie, Michael Smith, Keon
Sadly, agree, my two concerns when we traded for LaVine were:
1) He has one of the worst contracts in the NBA. He’s not a bad basketball player, but he is fairly one dimensional and is likely ideally suited to being a great 6th man. For $20M or so per season, that would be fantastic, but not for $45-$49M the next three years (including this one).
2) He is just highly redundant with what we have. He’s another scorer who excels with the ball in his hands as opposed really being additive to the holistic offense we have. Realize that might sound confusing, but put it this way, the 2002 Kings added Mike Bibby when we already had a lot of scorers, but he was such a good passer and off ball player (both shooting and moving without the ball) that he made everyone else and the whole offense better. LaVine doesn’t do that. He’s an elite enough scorer, that perhaps you could be a playoff team with him as a focal point, but you would really need to build around him and create the perfect supporting cast. But we don’t have anywhere close to that. Right now, every shot he takes is taking shots away from other good scorers. And he doesn’t create for others well or play any defense. So either he’s scoring a lot, which looks great on paper, but generally leads to DDR, Murray, Monk, or Sabonis having too few shots for the other value they provide. Or LaVine is less aggressive and then he’s a net negative on the court because his scoring value isn’t outweighing his lack of defense and creation.
Now of course, occasionally he will have a great 30-40 point game on very high efficiency and we will win and everyone will be happy. But generally, he just wasn’t a great addition to this team. And my ultimate fear is that if the franchise panics and needs to move him, that we end up attaching more assets to him to get off his albatross contract.
don’t worry about losing assets with him, he isn’t going anywhere…we will be rightfully trading away demar
Trading for Lavine is a fireable offense. A perennial regular season stat filler. Not a leader. Not a difference maker. Horrendously bad on D. Laughable.
Team has zero leaders, no culture, unbalanced roster, and a bleak future.
Can’t wait for the exciting Summer. I’ll get ready for the next round of the Champions League.
Vivek can’t fire himself.
Yup. I’m 100% of the belief that LaVine was a Vivek want. The Kings tried to acquire him back when Vlade was GM and the only thing that remains from that time is Vivek. It’s obvious that he adores shooters.He’s on record of wanting Stauskas and Buddy, so it’s pretty clear LaVine was his guy as well. He desperately wants the next Curry and it’s laughable how transparent it all is.
The trades and draft picks Monte makes always leave me saying the same thing, “you can’t make this up.”
Isn’t the Kings record with Keon starting like insanely good? I don’t remember the exact number but I know it’s been posted a few times.
It is insanely good. For a team that is supposedly in to advanced stats and other metrics, they seem to ignore that one.
I do believe our FO and coaches are smart. I am sure they are well aware of the value Ellis brings. At this point, him not starting has to be more about ego management.
Clearly, the distinction of being a “starter” is important to DDR, LaVine, and Monk. We don’t have a Jason Terry or Manu type of player willing to come off the bench in order to better balance our lineups.
If one of them is raising their hand and willing to come off the bench and we are not doing it, I question our decision making. But we are not even talking about crazy or obscure advanced stats. We are talking about the most basic lineup metrics that our FO/coaches likely have committed to memory.
100% it’s ego management because our players have more power than coaches and they know it
The people management is a really important part of the business and one that doesn’t always get enough attention.
It’s part of what did Hinke in with the 76ers. I read Built to Lose, which dives deep into tanking around the time of the Process (not just the 76ers) and it’s fascinating how you can quickly see how Hinke was a bit more Depodesta than Beane. Loved the numbers and didn’t talk to players and locked himself away to try to be objective. Did not develop any even real professional relationship with the players because he thought it could introduce bias. But rubbed a lot of players, agents, and other folks the wrong way. Had multiple agents steer their players away from him (like KP) in the draft process.
We like to think it’s a simple as making the right analytics decision. But there is probably a lot of pressure from players and agents that can even impact the starting lineup. We hate to think about that, but if an agent feels like his player is being mistreated, he can basically blackball the team with his other clients.
As Adam alluded to below, it is probably not a fun locker room right now and we are going to hear some stories at some point as players move on.
I couldn’t find it as one answer easily so I did a little cross referencing and I come up with (could be off by game, did this quickly):
This season with Keon starting the Kings are: 10-5
This season without Keon starting the Kings are: 25-29
And within those 10 wins are some of their best, most impressive wins: BOS (road), GSW (road), MIA 2x (home & away) and CLE
10-5 when Keon starts. 9-5 when he gets 30 minutes or more. It would be 10-5 if you want to count the 29:58 minutes he just played against Cleveland.
The only conclusion I can come to is that it’s definitely rocket surgery for the coaching staff.
Just mentioned to someone else, our FO and coaches are smart and basketball junkies. They probably have these stats committed to memory.
So if we still aren’t following the data, I’d hypothesize it must be more about ego or locker room management. Almost has to be that Monk, LaVine, and DDR are all adamant about starting, because if one of those three was willing to come off the bench and lead the second unit and our hottest 5 would close the game based on matchups, then it would be mind boggling that we wouldn’t just make the move.
Almost has to be the people side of the business, given the data is so crystal clear.
I feel we are going to hear about some locker room issues come offseason. There is just no joy from the team anymore. They definitely had a sense of joy the last 2 years. Everything has gone to shit since they fired Brown.
100%
since? what have you been watching lol
24 hours ago all of our problems were solved. Now we suck again. The thing I can’t figure out is why I care at all, but here I am.
Seems like games with one of the 3 scorers out is when Sac is good/better. Same with Sabonis out too because they’re not even utilizing his talents. So you don’t lose much on O w Valinchunus
The D gets way better and everyone gets the ball- Keegs – more. Etc
Because this is not a team but a bunch of individuals thrown together that don’t fit or compliment each others games.
You are right. This article breaks this down nicely, specifically going into detail on the best 3-man rotation the Kings have.
https://www.si.com/nba/kings/sacramento-kings-news/surprising-stat-reveals-the-kings-best-three-man-lineup-01jptv0dhtpm
Good stuff. Thanks for linking.
If Keegan isn’t on one of the All Defense teams, that would be a bad look for the league. Dude guards anyone position, from Curry and Trae, to Brown and Tatum, Naz Reid, Towns, etc., and he does it all at a high level.
Yeah, we’ve been saying that all year. I’m not even watching the games anymore when they start Lavine, Monk and DeMar together. Not enough defense. Not enough winning plays. It’s a losing formula. The organization is not trying to win.
https://x.com/AusSac1/status/1903088934260736087
This team.
Just when I thought I was in…
They push me back out.
[no gif for that]
The combination of getting a horrible and short sighted return in the Fox trade coupled with the lakers getting Luka for free has placed my interest in the Kings and the NBA as a whole at an all time low.
I just come on TKH every few days to see what’s going on.
I took a sports analytics course in grad school from some pretty legitimate names in the business. One of my professors said one of his favorite regular occurrences in the NBA was when a team was struggling or mediocre and then they have a game where they just shoot the lights out from deep in an unsustainable way. And virtually every time after that happens, all of the players and coaches talk about how they “finally figured things out” or finally “played their style of basketball and they need to bring that mindset every night.”
But really all that happened is they played the same basketball they always have. But they hit a bunch of threes, which both got them a bunch of points and let them set their defense and minimized easy transition baskets.
We just hit 49% and 46% of our threes the last two games on high volume. That papers over a lot of ills. We are hitting 35% on the season and 39% post all star break. Last night we were back down to 38%.
And digging a bit deeper, looking at all of our wins Post-ASB, we hit:
CLE: 46% (35 attempts)
MEM: 49% (41 attempts)
SAS: 45% (38 attempts)
DAL: 47% (34 attempts)
HOU: 32% (28 attempts)
UTAH: 42% (36 attempts)
CHA: 53% (38 attempts)
Not exactly a startling insight that when you hit shots you win games. But outside of a legitimately impressive win against Houston, this is basically what we are. A team that when we catch fire from deep and can set our defense, we get some wins. But if we aren’t shooting efficiently on a high volume of threes, we don’t really have other ways of winning.
We don’t gut out wins moving the ball and creating easy baskets inside. We don’t play gutsy, hard-nosed defense. We don’t shut down transition opportunities. We either hit an unsustainable amount of outside shots and claim we discovered a winning formula and team chemistry or we miss and we lose.
And frankly, that is a recipe for probably playing about .500 ball and maybe sneaking into the play-in or playoffs and if we do wind up in a playoff series, winning 1-2 games where we shoot lights about while losing to a better team.
This is a great comment.
The teams in the Play-In pretty much follow the same recipe as the Kings – hot shooting overcomes acceptable defense. The Warriors offense is an amalgam of 3 point shooters and they’ve adapted their dominating center-less defense in a scrappy enough way with players that are a mix of good defenders (Draymond, now Jimmy, GP II, Moody), decent defenders (Looney, Podz) and weak defenders (Kuminga, Steph, Buddy). They shift well to the players that are fitting in (notice that Trayce Jackson-Davis has been almost fully replaced with 3 point shooting Quinten Post), Denis Schroeder was traded off, and Gui Santos and Pat Spencer are subbed in more frequently.
That is coaching, and impressively so as they are 15-3 since the Jimmy Buckets trade with a roster that Sacramento would be do poorly with.
Games ebb and flow (a game or runs) and maneuvering around the ebbs and pushing with the flows is something that Coach Christie (and Mike Brown before him) just couldn’t seem to figure out with regularity. Memphis is also impressive in that regard.
The OKC, Boston, Cleveland squads are a cut above and ebb minimally and flow regularly.
In my opinion.
Quinten Post is the greatest Center since Rik Smits!
Change my mind.
He’s out of the paint, for one
The paint is so 1990s.
That’s what Reggie and The Rifleman were for (IIRC)
And why do you hate Jesse Edwards?
This game was not Coach Christi’s finest moment but then he didn’t trade for the former Bulls .
F this team.
U this team.
yuCK this team.
I mentioned in the pregame thread that the team has no meaningful present or future so they might as well just try to win as many games now as they can. Sounds like they tried for nearly a half.
It would be so fun to be an OKC fan right now.
I think it’s fun to be a Blazers fan now. Young team full of potential and nice tough gritty high IQ young players. And a very real chance they meet Sac in the playin and beat them. Imagine that. A team with a plan
Big bow of respect and congratulations to DeMar DeRozan for reaching an incredible milestone of 25,000 career points.
An amazing accomplishment for the 35 year old who keeps chugging along at 22 ppg this season.
Pretty frikkin’ amazing.
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A lot of mixed emotions with this team right now, but great post and props to DDR on such a remarkable career achievement.
He may be in the twilight of his career, but he’s certainly been a great player for a long time and I think some fans forget how good he was at his peak.
on 22 shots per game…kobe tour lol
Very polite of Red Velvet to make shots for the first time in 2 years.
Monte is horrific at roster construction, and seems to be getting worse.
While Monte and coaches have and will take the fall for the team’s failures and poor roster construction, this is on the ownership. I bet there were lots of things Monte could have done that the owner shot down. What GM with half a brain would build and settle for a roster and starting line-ups so unbalanced with undersized players that can’t play D?
Ah, the eternal question. Let me just simplify then: the team is horrific at roster construction, and seems to be getting worse.
Fun game…until about the 3 minute mark in the 2nd quarter. Things started falling apart then, and slowly continued until the final buzzer. Freaking joke.
Last night I chose an AA meeting over the Kings game because those people use a timer and know when to shut the fuck up.
Congratulations on the AA. And certainly seems like you picked the better option. Was near unwatchable last night.
Probably the biggest cardinal sin of this current roster. The team isn’t very fun. Any number of teams with worse records, but promising young talent that is more fun to watch develop than our vets struggling to play .500 ball.
Worse than not playing defense or hustling or winning, this team is just not a team I like or want to root for. The teams that built through the draft and obtained young players with potential like OKC, Cleveland etc are (a) very good and (b) exciting to root for. These Kings are aging volume shooters on their 15th teams… just yuck. Keegan is an empty stat line aside from points every night, and 1/3 of those games there’s 6 points or less as well. Get rid of EVERYONE.
IMO I wouldn’t’ get rid of everyone. I would keep more of the bench than starters. I really like Ellis and LaRavia and to an extent Carter. Derozan is too old and nobody would want him. Lavine costs too much and nobody would want him. I would rebuild instead of blowing it up. Sabonis, Monk and possibly Carter all have good trade value. Lyles some . This is last year on his contract. There are teams out their that would trade for them. The Heat would love to have Sabonis playing next to Adebayo. My fear is any of this will depend on Vivek. He would screw all of this up. He just has to swing his weight around and not let Monte do his job. This is why we are where we are right now. Too bad.
Really well said. They are both pretty elite teams to you mentioned.
But even Houston, Portland, Memphis, etc. are a lot more fun to watch. The Spurs were too before shutting everyone down. But I imagine their fans are still enjoying watching guys like Castle and Sochan develop and figuring out what they have in guys like Wesley and Champaignie.
This loss literally wipes out everything good about the Cleveland win. What the hell is it about this organization that it can’t play 48 consecutive minutes of good basketball???
I think I know most of the real reasons. It’s a rhetorical question.
If you didn’t see this coming, you don’t like Kangz basketball. Unserious franchise.
I joked yesterday that it would be so Kangz to beat the Cavs then lose to the Bulls, and sure enough…Kangz
I get a bit of a chuckle that the Bulls traded the Kings their two highest priced, highest usage, and leading scorers, then come into town and win. That would have been like the Kings trading Fox and Sabonis to the Hornets for a box of rocks then going into Charlotte and winning. Amazing stuff this front office has done, truly amazing stuff.
Imagine being so dumb that the Chicago Bulls’ (in the wilderness for 10 years) management/ownership bamboozles you.
100%, since the trade, we are 10-10 and the Bulls are 8-11, but they also started running out their young players and after starting 0-6, they have one 8-5 including winning 6 of their last 8.
Additionally, if you care more about point differential:
Bulls
Pre-trade: -3.14 (116.84 points per game, 119.98 points allowed)
Post-trade: -2.06 (116.89 points per game, 118.94 points allowed)
Kings
Pre-trade: +1.22 (116.45 points per game, 115.22 points allowed)
Post trade: -0.35 (117.00 points per game, 117.35 points allowed).
The Bulls literally traded us their “best” and certainly most expensive player and since then, they are playing better, while we are playing worse (though we did lose Fox).
And the real LaVine effect is that the Bulls offense is the same, while they are allowing a full point less per game and we are scoring slightly better, but allowing over 2 more points per game.
Bench Lavine. He is the definition of low effort. Just getting his cardio in.
Bulls won the trade. 🙁
Which one?
What upset me all over again last night was the Bulls rolling out a real and very serviceable PG in Tre Jones…who was throw in to the Bulls in the Fox deal. He might even be playing the best basketball since the trade of all the 7 players involved!
How nice would it be it have been if he were on the Kings right now?
Great point. Wild to me that not only did we not get any young players in the deal (other than Sidy Cissoko not even having enough time to buy a plane ticket to Sacramento), but we also rolled out with no PG.
We were taking on LaVine’s contract and losing Fox. We really should have had a lot more sway in any deal. Can’t believe that Tre coming here would have been a deal breaker for the Bulls.
Maybe he doesn’t play quite as well here, but you are right that he’s certainly been the best player so far in the trade. And would have been nice to not be relying on Monk excelling as a PG or grabbing someone like Fultz as a FA for the team to at least have the option of brining in a true PG to help run the offense and get our other weapons going.
The three dudes the Bulls got in the trade for LaVine (Huerter, Jones, and Collins) combined for 46 points, 12 rebounds, 14 assists, and 6 steals.
The players the Kings got (LaVine) combined for 8 points, 1 rebound, 5 assists, and 1 steal.
It’s so bad, it’s comical. Tommy Wiseau might as well be the Kings GM.
Oh hi Adam!
But then we would have moved Keegan to the bench so that Monk, DeRozan, and LaVine could still start together!
Is it me or does this year have the most “Best win of season” and “Worst loss of season” games? so fucking inconsistent
So with Keon Ellis in the starting lineup, missing both Sabonis and Lavine, they beat Cleveland. With Keon Ellis back on the bench, and Lavine back in the starting lineup, they lost to the Chicago Bulls.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM… I WONDER WHAT CHANGED??????
This team intentionally making itself worse because they don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings is peak Kangz. There’s a decent team in there somewhere. One that moves the ball, plays hard and gets stops. If everyone is healthy, that version of the team doesn’t exist.
Seriously. START KEON FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!
Who’s got money on the billboard?
Fantage Bright-side Points:
With love,
Vivek, Matina, Vlade and.. Luke Walton
I was there, and fortunately had good weather to make the big journey from Nevada for my third and final home game of this mediocre but up and down season. The article providws a good summation of what transpired. Strong first half and a disappointing second half with too much isolation offense and far too porous defense in the lane and at the 3 point line. Keon saw limited minutes in the second half due to foul trouble, and Keegan is simply not quick enough to handle Coby White. I enjoyed watching Doug Christie (my favorite player of all time) at the helm, especially actively coaching on defense!
I did enjoy getting to chat with Deuce Mason before the game. I truly enjoy his take on the Kings–good and bad–and his willingness to talk with fans!
What’s even wilder than the “Keon not starting” debate, is the bottom three players in minutes for the second half (you know, the half when the Kings couldn’t stop the Bulls) last night:
LaRavia 13:43
Carter 9:42
Ellis 5:54
Keon got less than 6 minutes in a half that the Bulls dropped 73 points on the Kings. Keon got about half the minutes as then next lowest dude, who is a rookie who hasn’t exactly lit the NBA on fire yet, even accounting for the recent handful of games!
Oh, and did I point out that Ellis has the highest DBPM of any rotational player on the team this year, second highest BPM, second highest VORP, second highest DRtg, and on and on.
Ellis also led the team with 2 steals in the 1st half of the game.
My world, what in the earth are our coaches doing with this guy?
Well, at least LaVine got 16 second half minutes because those 5 points on 5 shots were … something.
The reality is Keon needs to be the starting SG on this team. He could be that Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Dyson Daniels, Derrick White kind of glue role guy, but the front office and Vivek couldn’t get out of their own way, traded for LaVine and forced their 6th man off guard to play starting PG. It’s a total cluster fuck.
If the Kings had simply started Keon next to Fox from the gate (as many of us here advocated for), this team would have been much better off, and all the data supports that. Fox likely would still be here, we’d be talking about his chances for All-NBA, and Monk would be in 6th man consideration, and Brown is probably still coaching.
I truly believe had Keon been the starter and getting those minutes from game 1 the Kings would be top 6 in the West.
More Keon, less Huerter from the start is what I was saying too. Brown giving Ellis DNP-CDs this season, along with many games under 20 minutes, was such an idiotic thing to do.
I don’t think I would have wanted the guy to stick around if he was making those kind of decisions.
With Doug, idk what his thinking is. If the goal is to win games, he needs to start Ellis, plain and simple. If somebody gets butthurt about it, then that tells me they aren’t a team player, and they can be traded in the offseason.
These are grown ass men, some acting like babies who have fragile egos. If you want to start and get the minutes, perform better (looking at you, Zach).
Monte trying to salvage value from Huerter by giving him minutes he didn’t deserve really got us off on the right foot. And we still owe a pick for him!
I don’t think the head coaches have been choosing the starting five.
bbbbbingo
So now that we know it’s going to take at least a couple billion dollars to buy out Vivek, does anyone know any local billionaires looking for something to do?
Or a few thousand millionaires?
A few million thousandaires?
As someone who is worth tens of hundreds of dollars, I am willing to do my part.
I have dozens of monies at my disposal and several Raley’s coupons. I shall contribute.
I’ll mow someone’s lawn…
I am reading some of these posts and having a good laugh. Keon Ellis makes the team a Top 6 in the. west?! lol! lol!
Ellis is a decent player. Not a different maker. He is not a consistent scorer. Cannot create his own shot and to be honest overrated defensively. Above average yes. Shut down specialist? No.
The W-L sample size most of you bring up is skewed.
Most of those wins came against teams without their star players, bad teams or teams like Cleveland , Who really didn’t care to play a few nights ago.
What are Cleveland playing for? They have an 11’game lead on the top spot in the ECF minimum. Kings came out and played with desperation.
Cavs can literally coast the next few weeks. The win was an outlier. Not what the Kings can do in a consistent basis.
Ellis is a nice role player. But a starter? Cmon. He wouldn’t start in any contending team in the league and that’s a fact.
Kings are what they are: A middling average team with no future.
They will occasionally surprise and beat a good team. Beat bad teams most of the time. And have a losing record against most excellent teams.
Mediocre is what they are. Keon Ellis doesn’t turn them from mediocre to good. Ridiculous.
Except the numbers disagree with everything you just said in regards to Keon, just like they show having LaVine, Monk, and DDR on the court at the same time is stupid.
Don’t let facts get in the way of an amazing point!
This comment made me laugh because while the general point is probably true to some extent, the actual evidence presented is almost all completely wrong.
Keon Ellis IS a huge difference maker based on every single advanced statistic that you look at regarding the team. All of the best 5 man, 4 man, and 3 man combinations of players on the Kings feature Keon Ellis. So he actually IS very impactful. Does that make the Kings a 6 seed? Probably not but they’d be a little closer to 6 than 10 I would imagine.
Cleveland is 6 games up on Boston. Not 11 LOL. Checking the standings isn’t that hard.
Lots of teams have starters that are on the same level as Keon Ellis. Is he that much different than Aaron Nesmith or Christian Braun? I don’t really think so and if you’re just looking at the advanced numbers, he’s a more impactful player.
So in conclusion, you can make your point without saying a bunch of things that are hyperbolic to the point of absurdity.
I really don’t understand how folks can discredit the impact Keon has when he’s on the court. Maybe some are just hung up on PPG? Some organizations seem to get it. Just look at Memphis who retired Tony Allen’s jersey. That guy never averaged more than 9 points, 5 rebounds and 1 assist per game, but man did he have a vital impact on a winning basketball team.
I’m far from arguing for any of Monk, DDR or LaVine together, but to replace any one of those players on this roster with Keon, given that there is no starting quality point guard, means you lose scoring, and what very little ball handling and on-ball decision making the team has.
We should consider the possibility that the reason Keon’s numbers are so good is because he’s been put into a position to succeed and not because his success is infinitely scalable. I like Keon. He’s a good player and a real find. He should play more if for no other reason than he has both effort and ability on the defensive end, where the other 13 combo guards on the roster are missing one or both. He absolutely should have started over Huerter. Plus Keon can shoot, and takes good shots (Hi Malik).
But playing Keon 6 more minutes per game is not going to turn this mismatched mess of a roster around.
I mostly agree with you, but Ellis was unquestionably better than Huerter as a starter.
Completely agree that Ellis over anyone else currently in the starting lineup isn’t going to meaningfully change the team’s record.
I suppose it depends on what we would count as meaningful. Do I think the Kings would suddenly be a top-4 seed? No. But I do I think they’d absolutely have more wins (4-6?) if Keon was starting all year. The advanced metrics with Keon in the lineup are so overwhelmingly positive and have been for a couple years now, that it’s hard for me to hear any other argument. Not having a point guard is a problem without question. I just think there’s more than one way to skin a cat. His defensive impact and shooting are so impactful that I actually think the team would gain a ton by replacing any one of Monk, Lavine or DDR in the starting lineup.
Not playing Keon much against the Bulls made this a double revenge Kevin Huerter game
Nobody Kangz like the Sacramento Kangz!
We are the Kings of Kangz!
Kangziest of Kangzmanship!
Ellis Starting:
Heat Win
Warrior Win Pre Jimmy
Boston Win
Bucks Loss
Wolves Win
Cavs Win
Memphis Win No Jah
Spurs Win No Wemby
Clippers Loss
Blazers Loss
Philly Win
Thunder Loss
Wolves Win No Randle
Nothing conclusive here to validate Ellis is the difference. Other than a couple of wins against the Wolves.
A couple of outliers against Boston and Clev.
Last 2 years of Keon Ellis starting
23-13 record, plus a million on/off, +/- stats that would indicate he is very important in those wins.
Him starting also generally means that somebody in the top 7/8 is injured which means they are already without a key team member, yet still winning.
Like if you wanna be different just to be different I guess that’s your prerogative. But the sample size is large enough to indicate a clear relationship between him getting minutes and them winning games.
I don’t even think he has to start. but he has to be getting 25+ minutes every night. Which he doesn’t.
W/L record is similar if you count just games he plays half the game, not starting.
Keon is a really good role player and potentially a little more, doubt he’s an all-star level guy but you never know until you try. That’s the problem with Kangz basketball, we give too many minutes to the wrong vet guys, and too few to really see what some new young guys have to offer. Been this way forever now, huge organizational fail.
Keon not being in the starting lineup has me flip-flopping between thinking its
Your logic is faulty…despite all the evidence proving beyond a doubt that Ellis is one of the most impactful players towards winning…the simplest answer is that the Kings Front Office and Coaching Staff (the day-to-day decision makers) are all incompetent and not very good at their jobs (including DC).
Lots of failing here, Christie included. It’s not that complicated, guys who are offensive stars like Monk, DDR, and LaVine need to be mixed with defense guys like Keon. Offense or defense heavy lineups don’t work, u need a mix of guys. You need a couple defense guys, some scorers and creators. You need some rebounding and shot-blocking. Not only do the Kings mismatch parts by the GM but then the coaches don’t even use what they have correctly. Christie has been little to no improvement over Brown, both average. Bringing him back would be criminal…but Kangz Life tho!
I would be interested in seeing a minutes breakdown-it seems like JV is involved in the success and then he is taken out in the 4th quarter and we lose. Would like to see more JV in the 4th.
Hope some of you smarter people know the answer here. If the Kings finish 9th and lose to the 10th place team in the play-in, do they get to keep the pick they traded to Atlanta? If not, what has to happen for Kings to keep that pick?
The play-in tourney changed the “lottery/final standings” rules a bit here…
If a 9th or 10th seeded team manages to win both of its games in the tournament it will no longer participate in the lottery. Similarly, to sneak into the lottery, a 7th or 8th seeded team will need to lose both of its games in the tournament. Final lottery positions are not set until the play-in tourney is complete.
What if the 9th or 10th seeded teams win exactly one game? In that case, the team is still lottery-bound and its lottery odds are in a sense unaffected and are still calculated based on its regular season winning percentage. Similar logic applies to a 7th seeded team that dropped to 8th after the play-in tournament: the picks it owns in the Draft (in the range 15-60) will still be ordered according to the regular-season record.
Summary: In order for the Kings to keep the pick, they can’t win both games in the play-in AND the pick needs to land at 12 or higher or it conveys to ATL (a team that finished 9th or 10th in the tourney would be 13th or 14th in the lottery before the draw). The Kings would need to lose in the tourney AND hope their pick lands #1-4 via the ping-pong balls (see note below).
The Kings have a ZERO percent chance at moving up to picks #5-12 in the lottery draw, but they have a 0.7% chance at #4, 0.6% chance at #3, 0.6% chance at #2, and 0.5% chance at the #1 pick. In total, there is a 97.6% chance the pick goes to ATL (this info was based on the standings as of 3/19 and came from Tankathon).
Great break down. Thank you.
Great write up. I was about to answer but you did it waaaaaay better than I would have.
How about if both Dallas and Suns pass them and they finish 11th? Would it depend on their record what draft position they land in?
Until you dig deeper. He is a hideously bad -321 plus minus whe on the floor this season. That is 2024-25.
That’s all you need to know. There is a reason the Pels did not resign him.
Pels have several plus defenders when healthy. He is also taken out of most games because he’s really kind of slow and gets exposed by big that can shoot.
Hes also a complete non factor in the playoffs.
Sir, this is an Arby’s.
If both the Mavs AND the Suns (or Blazers I suppose) pass the Kings then we’d most likely keep the pick. Basically, make the play-in, lose the pick. Miss the play-in keep the pick. Make the playoffs, lose the pick but it doesn’t suck.
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