This season we’ll be doing quick post game threads, with a full recap to follow later. Use these threads for immediate post game discussion, gifs, and whatever else.
The Kings could’ve won this one except for a brutal start to the 4th quarter. Also it’s very weird that Keon Ellis didn’t play.
Full recap to come, but for now let’s be miserable together.
So at what point do the games start to matter? Also, what exactly does Demar DeRozan do to make the team better? This defense is substantially worse than last year which is saying something.
The Kings have not won a game since April.
They are the only team that can say that.
Yeah I just think at some point it becomes a mental thing. I guarantee you they’re going to be thinking about it against Portland on Monday.
Heck, I’m nervous about that Portland game based on last year.
Me too! They also got CRUSHED by Portland in the preseason. If they lose that game it’s going to get really uncomfortable around these parts given the expectations.
They should fear any basketball team at this point. There are high school teams that can score 100 against the Kings.
That’ll be the big ? This year. DDR should help w 1/2 court and 4th quarter O?
But is the team better? Especially when they still need D
Fire Mike Brown for forgetting Ellis on the bench. He keeps preaching defense and don’t even play Keon. And Fox is not looking to be worth giving him the max extension he wants lol.
Move Fox before we cannot get anything for him in return. I love Keon but unfortunately he cannot score and Brown knows that one player on defense is not going to cut it. He is forced to go all in on scoring. Defensive players be damned.
You scored 127 points in regular time and still lost the game.
Going all in on scoring doesn’t seem to be working at the moment, and won’t work if we want to go deep into the playoffs.
Yep. A team that scores 127 should win. We find a way to not do that. Smart basketball when it matters. A competitive culture. Some defense. All of these things are missing.
Too early to start talking about the upcoming draft?
Never too early! This roster would look a lot better with Cooper Flagg.
But the Kings pick is slated to go to Atlanta if it’s high enough to get Flagg
The way this team plays defense we might be right in the mix! We’ve only got to be bottom 12 to keep the pick. That’s doable.
We can blow through that bottom twelve next week.
That’s right, my bad.
Is he a four in the NBA?
If he is they won’t draft him. Put a “G” next to his name and he will become a King.
I believe he will be a 4 and he looks like an absolute monster defensive prospect.
If we can get him lets go!
Maybe there is some fu@kery we can unleash on the Atlanta deal to keep it? The chances of us in the lottery are looking really good.
Mike Brown doesn’t have Davion to yank around anymore so he is doing it to Keon. And when Keon is gone, he’s going to do it to Carter lol. All defense first guard. Even though Mike Brown talks defense defense, he leans offense.
This team just doesn’t have the defense when it needs it.
Better get used to it, as built, this team doesn’t have the defense at all. Paging Monte McNair. Fix this mess.
The Kings look incapable of beating any decent NBA team. Poor defense, inconsistent offense. Not a top 8 team in the West right now.
Ellis and Huerter and their playing time is an extremely minor issue for this team. Time to get some halfcourt play out of this team no matter who it is. These guys get stupid when they have to think through the game and teams take advantage of them. A power forward that plays defense sounds nice. A point guard that can see the floor and run an offense would be really fun too. Add a couple of guys to defend and holy cow we have a basketball team.
The best defender on the court plays the 4 spot! Are you for real with this?
Please show me where I said the best defender on the court plays the 4 spot.
A power forward that plays defense sounds nice.
You didn’t. I said it. His name is Keegan. He’s a PF who plays defense.
Another big that plays defense is bad?
Are you for real with this?
To be fair, we need another Keegan Murray to have anything approaching decent defense. Keegan is great but we need another similarly sized wing to really make some headway on the defensive end.
Yes, a power forward that plays defense sounds nice.
Keegan back at the three with a four that can play defense.
Sounds nice doesn’t it.
Whatever Mike Brown’s strategy is, it either isn’t working or the players just can’t execute it. There are some really talented individuals on this roster but as a team they fail to get the job done.
I would like to see Fox on the bench during the last five minutes of the game until he can learn what do with the ball.
A bit extreme
Three minutes?
Jerami Grant fixes the 4 spot issue, shooting from the bigs issue, length/size issue, some of the defensive issues….get it done. Now
I know he isn’t a great rebounder but he is about as good as we can get to help some major issues
How do we get him?
He’s also mostly an indifferent defender. Between that and the rebounding, I’d prefer John Collins if we are talking about somewhat realistic targets.
The problem then is DeRozan plays the 2, which he hasn’t played in like a decade. That puts a lot more pressure on Fox to be a more capable defender, and his motor on the defensive end has a check engine light.
Derozan over Keon and Huerter at the two. It is the best lineup we move one or both of them for a four.
Grant is smaller than Keegan, doesn’t rebound, and is owed $34M when he’ll be 34 in the 27-28 season.
Who do you think we can get?
Huerter and Lyles for Draymond. The numbers can work. Get a competitor.
I don’t want Green on this team. Monty can do better with Huerter and Lyles.
He will change the toughness of this team within minutes.
Another low key thing that’s painful tonight is the Kings passing on Knecht, especially with the knowledge of Carters shoulder issue. Knecht looks exactly like an experienced rookie that can fill a role right now on a good team without pressure to be the man. He’s got decent size, athleticism, and can drain threes. Carters wingspan on the 6’1 body isnt going to help this team and he’s not going to get enough minutes to showcase any value for a trade after a whole season being blown on the bench. Drafting a red shirt rookie at your deepest position when you need guys that can play right now was a huge mistake.
Undersized guards and injured players is what we do.
He was viewed as the steal of the draft by many pundits. Just give it some time. He has a great motor and competitive fire.
Even he is the steal of the draft there is soooo much redundancy in his position. Make some moves for a big and that might make room for Carter. Or Carter part of a deal.
Carter will be what they always wanted Davion to be. With more scoring prowess and length to disrupt offense on the perimeter. He has the potential to be Jose Alvorado with more scoring chops. It will be worth the few month wait. Don’t overreact to Knect hitting a few 3s. He also gave up multiple And ones as well on the other end.
Don’t judge Carter until you have something to judge him with.
Must be my Kings bias-
I thought Sac played good, very good all around ball for much of the game- including defense. But enough talk about the first half. Turns out, they play two in this game.
Slow, cold start in the first 7 minutes, and again in the 4th Q. You aren’t going to win many games giving up 44 in the 4th. Speaking of the cold shooting 1st Q – erase the 1-12 3Point start and the Kings go 14/32 which is 43.8% instead of 15/44 for 34.1%. Huerter’s shooting was back, but his +/- was -29.
On the stat side- outrebounded 44-32, a particular problem on allowing offensive boards. Smaller Kings got outsized too many times..
Minny shoots 40% 3FG%, the Lakers bettered that mark at 14/34 for 41.2%.
On the Good side: Both teams with 32 assists. Nice. Ox and Fox with 29 and 28- triple double and double double. Deebo with 23. Monk, Murray and Huerter each with 14. That’s pretty solid.
Hats tip to JJ Reddick, LAL are looking crisp at 3-0. Anthony Davis is a legit MVP candidate though Domas was more than his equal however, this was a Lebron throwback game that carried the day.
Just my opinion, but Sac is playing well – but not well enough to win.
Last comment/Rookie Watch: Dalton Knecht looking very young Doug McDermott- and I mean that as a compliment. PHX rookie Ryan Dunn getting a start tonight and 13 points as Bradley Beal sits.
You are correct. Played well enough to score 125 which should win most games.
So erase a terrible shooting performance from 3 for an entire quarter. Then a 4th quarter that allowed 44 points, including a 21-0 run. The Lakers also had a 15 point lead in the 1st half, and another one in the 2nd half, but the Kings played well.
Did I get that right?
The Kings also scored.
There was up and down, as in all games and with all teams.
The Kings three point shooting went from very cold to start the game, and then bounced backn and remained at a very high level there after.
It is my opinion that the Kings did indeed play well, and competed well in this contest. Unfortunately, they did so with lapses of consistency.
NBA Basketball, in the opinion of
many, is a game of runs. The run by Lebron in the 4th Q lifted Los Angeles and Sac responded inadequately.
Overall, the Kings played well, IMO. They competed. Same against Minnesota.
They haven’t put it all together, yet, but from what I have seen, they have the pieces to do so.
What do you think?
Yep. The amazing offense scoring over 120 is killed with giving up 20-0 runs. Put it together just a little bit and this is a totally different outcome.
Huerter was a -29. Let me repeat that. Minus 29. And no Keon Ellis.
Sometimes good. Sometimes bad.
-29 is more bad than good
The other game was a plus nine and Keon was a negative.
Next game?
Sometimes good. Sometimes bad. Choose your poison.
I don’t put much stock in single game +/-. I think Huerter was fine and actually kept the Kings in the game in the first quarter. We need to upgrade that spot in the lineup but complaining about his play seems a little silly when he’s the 6th or 7th best player you know? He’s in the position he’s in because of Monte McNair and to a lesser extent Mike Brown.
Oh jeesh.
Again, individual game plus/minus is a meaningless or even misleading stat.
As an example. Anthony Davis was -22. He scored very efficiently and really influenced our offense near the basket.
Sometimes good. Sometimes bad.
Single game plus-minus isn’t a useful stat.
Not at all. The sample size is miniscule at this point as well.
I await the rationale for not playing Ellis at all…. From Brown.
Just the fact that the Kings are starting the season this way-odd and out of sorts- is disconcerting.
Sure-gotta give it 20 games or do but looks all off
It just makes sense to me to have Huerter off the bench where his shooting can be on display more. Let him and Domas run the DHO while Fox and DeRozan are taking a breather.
It’s like there are too many options for offense right now, and nobody knows (even the coaches) what to do.
Keon over Huerter. Keon starts and plays 30 minutes. How does that change the outcome of either of the last two games?
I like both and enjoy having a competition for a starting spot on this team. In my opinion neither one is the crux of the problem with this team.
Nothing wierd to Keon not playing
not an nba starter, and the team is better statistically with Kevin though I’m not his biggest fan
Having rather one dimensional on ball defense is pretty antithetical to a bench role. You need pop and momentum changing O a lot of times. His +/- reflected that the first game and I feel more comfortable with McLaughlin
Don’t know much about McLaughlin. Didn’t watch the preseason.
it’s a mystery why Keon isn’t playing.
I explained it and Brown agrees with me. You can disagree if you want.
one dimensional on ball D fits in specific lineups with a lot of O, not off the bench when pop is needed and other teams star players may not be on the floor
The starting 4 has a lot of O, so an on defender would fit, yes?
The bench lacks scoring punch, so a decent offensive player would work well against other teams bench, right?
So start Keon and bring Huerter off the bench. They should each get about 20-25 minutes.
I am usually a positive guy but I was so mad at Brown. IMO he had a lot to do with losing last nights game. #1, You have one of your 2 best defenders sitting on the bench and never played. He was a really good force last year on defense and last night we sure could have used him. If Brown isn’t going to play him then what a waste. Monty if you for chance read this then if Brown isn’t going to play him then TRADE HIM. He needs and should play. He earned it. Brown I am beginning to not like what you are doing.
#2 You never called a time out at the time to maybe stem the tide last night. When you did it was too late.
#3 The only guy who tried to get back into the game in the fourth quarter was Derosan. He is the new guy on the team. What does that tell you. The old team does exactly what they do. This team IMO cannot put together and entire game without doing something during that game that will lose that game. OH sure they win one once in a while but usually find a way to lose.
#3 As of this year when Fox made a comment he won’t sign now but wait and see where this team is going tells me he something. How many millions of dollars do you have to have to live your life with comfort. I am seeing Fox in a different light this year.If that is what you said then you have to look at the other side of the coin. You need to step up and prove to the other guys you want a championship more than millions of dollars. Look at last night. You turned the ball over what 3 or 4 times in the fourth quarter. Tell me that didn’t help your team to win. The proof is in the pudding.
#4 IMO this team which really has the talent doesn’t have the makeup to win those games needed to go any further in their quest to be a champion. They always in most part always find a way to lose games. I question whether they are a good 3 point shooting team. Why can’t they as good as they are not defend the 3 point shot. Every other team in the league can’t wait to play the Kings win or lose up their 3 point shooting. They thrive on just this one point.
Enough.
Not quite, #5 44 points in the fourth quarter and no Keon Ellis.What a shame Mike Btown.
Brown got out coached by a dude that was podcasting 6 months ago.
Monte might need tontrade Hierter to force Brown tonplay Ellis. A la trading Carlos Pena so Art Howe had to start Scott Hatteburg.
Yeah, I’ve been there for a while with Brown. he was good (not great) that first year, and then got outcoached by Kerr. Made the same mistake with davion as he does now with Keon.
I started talking about the COY curse last season, when this team was largely just doing the same things and he had no good counters when teams started toi take away the DHO and crowding Sabonis. It’s as if Brown started believing he’s some sort of coaching genius, without doing anything to show it.
I hoped he would understand and change his approach, but not really seeing it so far. The season is still young, so there is still hope. TBD.
Of course, Monte cannot be absolved from all of this. There were specific needs and he decided to go with DDR, who doesn’t fix most of these needs. Maybe he can mask some stuff, also still TBD.
But it is very difficult for Brown to claim that he has no defensive weapons when he gives the best one limited minutes and DNP-CD’s.
You used the plural form of weapon, as in weapons. Who are the defensive weapons?
I love Keon but asking him to fix this defense alone is an absurdly insane request.
Dump Brown, get a new coach, force him to start Keon, watch the new coach run a team that cannot play defense. This is a trend deeper than a singular player.
Keegan is pretty good, and although Domas is no rim protector, he’s a better than average defender who depite his size can defend in space.
Three above average defenders can plug more holes than just one or two.
Also, nobody is asking Keon to fix this defense. But the coach can’t just keep talking about defense and leave arguably his best defender on the bench.
Good points Rik. I thought Domas had some really good moments on defense last night. He is much more mobile than most bigs after picking up smaller players in a switch, and he knows where to be on the court, rarely caught out of position.
I think Sabonis is an under rated defender that suffers because the guards consistently create more work for him by not playing defense. Keegan can hold his own defensively for sure. In no way do I see multiple defenders on the bench. Keon is a defender and I buy the argument that he can help out Sabonis and Keegan by preventing the perimeter players from driving without any inhibitions. I just don’t think Keon is enough unfortunately.
A four that can play defense will help with the match ups do so much for this team. The positive of Keon is that he is a legitimate NBA player on our bench. It has been a long time since a true battle for playing minutes was happening on this team.
I agree. Sabonis last night came out to defend the perimeter way too much last night. Because of that we had a hard time defending the paint.That’s what the Lakers wanted. Derosan or who ever guarding someone like Hachimura under the basket just doesn’t work. Murray was the only one under t guard one or two.
Easy to rotate our guys out of position when we are undersized and short a big.
Monk and Lyles score off of the bench.
Other than Keon and Huerter what do you think about this team?
Is Derozan and Sabonis a good combo?
Do you think the size advantage other teams have over us justifies playing Len and Lyles more?
Lyles will play more, or he should play more, once he gets his cardio back after the injury.
I think the team has some good pieces, and the staff hasn’t figured out how to fit them all together.
Lyles can be huge for this team and I think he can do it. We will see. Derozan is a good add but he changed the lineup in almost every way. I think we have a culture problem more than anything. Brown has not been able to change that. Defense is a mindset. All of these guys are world class athletes. They can play defense if they choose to.
Brown understands that one guy playing defense is not going to change this team. It is like drinking the ocean with a straw. If Huerter scores then let him play. If Huerter is not scoring then go with some defense. Scoring is number one with this team because the roster is built that way.
Huerter should come off the bench. Ellis should start at SG. Not only can he play defense but shooting at a 40% clip at the 3 isn’t nothing. Just my opinion but if Ellis doesn’t play like last night trade him. Also think Huerter and Lyles should also be considered. Cam Johnson scored 32 the other night against the Raptors. Maybe a fluke but I don’t think so.
I like your take.
Is Ellis at 40% now?
His sample size is so small and he was not shooting the ball at all when he did play in game one.
I can think of some plausible reasons also. the actual reason(s) are still a mystery.
It is his story. Not drafted then on the bench. Huerter gets hurt and he shines. All amazing and great things. Winning basketball games matters more than the emotional attraction to a shiny object.
While I’m extremely baffled with the Keon situation in Game 2 – and don’t get me wrong, we do need answers from Mike Brown on the logic behind that – I’m not as worked up as everyone else seems to be.
The way I see it is the Kings could very easily be 2-0. Whether it be defensive lapses or lack of calling TOs to prevent runs, still early in the season to address some of the obvious reasons that have us at an 0-2 start. I’m just not ready to light my torch and unpack my pitchfork just yet.
Now if they drop the next two against, Portland and Utah (teams that they should be 3 to 4 times a year), I’ll lead the hooting and hollering.
Beat the crappy teams and lose to the good teams. Doesn’t make us a good team. Just mediocre like last year.
Funny seeing all the commenters that were sippin the DDR kool aid all off season turning two games into the season.
The minority who saw the trade as a sideways move were lambasted. This team is basically the same team from last year. Expectactions should be tempered.
DeRozan was getting buckets
14 points in the 4th
He was getting Buckets. 40’year old Lebron was making winning plays. Those buckets mean nil!
actual, they mean 14 points.
If 14 pts are 14 pts then let’s bring Buddy back. Heck all
pts are created equal right.
Buddy, Keon, and Huerter. Dump Derozan. Looking solid!
If you dump Derosan right now this team will be lucky to win 40 games.
You are right because we couln’t stop James. IMO we just let him have his way. No timeouts to stop the bleeding so we could regroup.
Some of the fans want this team to win regardless who is on the roster. Derozan is a great pick up.
Only one on the team trying to do something in the 4th quarter.
The only one who seems to understand how competitive NBA games are played.
I don’t really agree Grant. What I saw what Derosan did last night to get us a win in the fourth quarter was the only one who showed how to do it. Fox should take lessons. To many turnovers. And someone tell me the logic of the last play we had in the game. Driving into the middle of of the biggest players on the Lakers just doesn’t make sense. Look what happened. If Fox was doing what he was told to do then the set up by Brown was terrible.
I see a team that really has no consistent defensive effort. I see a game plan that is flawed from the start. Matchups? Fox has faced 2 of the worst Western Conf pGs in a cooked and aged Conley. And a wildly erratic DLo.’Fox’s numbers are statistically decent. Unfortunately, his decision making and shot making have been at times. Dumb.
While DDR is a major upgrade offensively over Barnes. Defensively DDR is a flat out liability in 2 games. He looks bad.
i understand they are trying to play Huerter to trade him. From what I have seen in 2 games back. He will not land you a Finney Smith type player.
Which the Kings need
Jj Redick is showing early Coy whispers. Same Lakers team. A team that plays with force, crashing the boards, and consistently makes good decisions in the court. Something they did not do last year.
It’s mindless to think the Kings will just blow out of the Blazers and Jazz up next.
When teams know they can bully and outsmart the kings. Sometimes that trumps any talent advantage .
Thanks for stating the obvious that many fail to recognize, especially MM and MB.
And every team in the league loves to play the Kings and up their 3 point shooting by a large margin.
does everyone agree that Brown should have called a timeout sooner during that Lakers run?
Yup.
good. it’s not just me and 99% of others then.
Make it 99.9% I’m in.
TIME OUT!
Ok guys same players on the floor but try harder this time.
We just won.
and since the fanbase appetite for Fox is finally coming my way after all these years
It may have saved us if we did indeed offer him an extension
The fact that he has non pep this early in the season is actually pretty scary. He usually has it to at least start the season. Don’t know what the midseason doldrums will look like if we are already to non pep.
His clutchness saved his contract for me a couple years back, but the first two games have seen a return to last years non clutch ways.
The efficiency, which always needed to improve, has shown no trajectory though its early
. His shooting has gotten no better…
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