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Milwaukee Bucks, Houston Rockets, Oklahoma City Thunder, Los Angeles Lakers, and Portland Trail Blazers players are boycotting games

In the wake of the Jacob Blake shooting in Wisconsin, multiple NBA teams are boycotting games.

In a powerful statement, the Milwaukee Bucks refused to take the floor for Game 5 against the Orlando Magic. The boycott comes in the wake of Jacob Blake being shot seven times in the back by police in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Players had been discussing boycotts in the hours leading up to the game, but didn't announce their decision until after the game was scheduled to have started.

The Houston Rockets and Oklahoma City Thunder announced that they also will not play today.

The Los Angeles Lakers and Portland Trail Blazers are also boycotting.

***

The Bucks organization has been at the forefront of speaking out against police brutality. Bucks player Sterling Brown was the victim of police violence in 2018, and John Henson was racially profiled by a Milwaukee business in 2015.

The Sacramento Kings have partnered with the Bucks in recent years in a program called Team Up For Change, holding multiple summits on ways to fight racial injustice.

 

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Ifeanyi
3 months ago

I’m proud of them. This statement goes way beyond basketball.

Last edited 3 months ago by Ifeanyi
BabyGiraffe
Admin
3 months ago

I’m a Bucks fan today.

BestHyperboleEver
3 months ago

comment image

Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
3 months ago

Huge props to the players for initiating this.

Timmy_13
3 months ago

God. We really need nationwide Police reform. I really don’t get how here in Vegas for example, you only need 6 months of training to be a cop. Wtf. This needs to be a 2-4 yr course where cops have to learn to be a social worker. Not a fucking military police. Defund the bad agencies and fund the best.

Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  Timmy_13

Police reform starts with replacing police leadership. Many of these yahoos see themselves as military leaders fighting a war, not protectors of the public.

Timmy_13
3 months ago
Reply to  Otis

I saw a video where some kids were taunting cops with a donut on a leash. It was elementary at best since it was pretty rude to do but the cops laughed it off until one of their higher ranking officers got pissed at the kids. Soon these other cops who got it as a joke immediately got irritated and started arresting the kids. You are right about leadership. What they need to do internally is clean up the bad apples.

Wonderchild
3 months ago
Reply to  Timmy_13

There are tons of videos out there that show officers taking the high road. But Chris Rock said it best, “some jobs just can’t have bad apples.”

SPTSJUNKIE
3 months ago
Reply to  Wonderchild

Additionally, I would add:

1 – It’s not as simple as a few bad apples if the other cops refuse to stand up to those bad apples. There’s countless videos of some police being “bad” while others watch or turn a blind eye like the old man shoved over in Buffalo. The other cops may not be bad apples, but are you really a good apple if you watch that happen and do nothing/

2 – Remember, the full expression is “One bad apple can spoil the bunch.” A lot of people quote the first half to mean that the problem is just a couple of people, when the full phrase and original meaning is about how just a couple of bad people can ruin or influence the entire group negatively.

Wonderchild
3 months ago
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

Agree. In your other post, you praise the solidarity of the players in their protests. Well, solidarity among police is also part of the problem.

Wonderchild
3 months ago
Reply to  Timmy_13

Our state and national leaders need to be pushed to make the changes. We need to see more than their “thoughts and prayers” after violence happens.

Timmy_13
3 months ago
Reply to  Wonderchild

Yeap. Proceeds to hashtag blm then does nothing.

AmateurNerd
3 months ago
Reply to  Timmy_13

When was the last time we saw police departments recruiting seriously on college campuses? Not that a 4-year degree automatically makes somebody a better police officer, but let’s be honest: We need more officers who are analytical, empathetic, perceptive, and intelligent, as opposed to simplistic, wannabe macho men who went into law enforcement because of the pension, uniform, gun, short training period, and allure of physical power. Most of my friends growing up went to college and got at least a bachelors’ degree, and many got advanced degrees. None of us were encouraged to consider law enforcement as a career, and as a result, we didn’t. There ARE a lot of highly intelligent cops out there, but it is clear that too many of them are narrow-minded, backward muscle-flexers who do it to crack skulls on the government’s dime.
Now, how does this relate to basketball? Well, basketball players are human beings, and deserve good cops that protect them. There.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
3 months ago
Reply to  AmateurNerd

My brother-in-law is a cop with a college education, criminology I believe. He wanted to go the FBI route but it didn’t work out for him. In having beers with him and him admitting some of the power play shit he has done, I think it is more of a culture issue. It’s like frat boys with guns who deal with negativity all day. Their job alters their mental construct. They need serious help and reform.

Yes, there are some wannabe macho dudes out there who want to play with guns and punch people who don’t look like them. There are plenty of them who are just in society as construction workers or dentists. Police, however need to weed those people out of their force and properly train and mentally support those who do work for them. For example cops shouldn’t try and deescalate a domestic dispute or deal with someone having a psychotic episode. They have no training for that. Send someone who is trained to deal with that kind of situation. I mean, I wouldn’t hire a plumber to install a ceiling fan, because someone would get hurt.

Timmy_13
3 months ago
Reply to  AmateurNerd

Agreed. We need the whole she bang. Complete reform from top to bottom. It’s insane to me how cop culture is. They don’t even care and most of them think they are above the law. Rat someone out? Yea that’s the end of your police career.

richie88
3 months ago
Reply to  AmateurNerd

I took a stress management class at Sac St. which had a lot of people who wanted to be cops in the Sacramento area b/c it was a required class according to the agency they wanted to work for (I think it was the Sacramento Police Dept., the Sacramento Co. Sheriff’s Dept. or both). Idk if these people were recruited at Sac St., but apparently they had to pass certain college classes before they are hired (& a college degree might’ve been required, but I’m not sure about that).

AmateurNerd
3 months ago
Reply to  richie88

I suppose my argument above was using a college degree as a proxy for having a more nuanced, complex view of society and the world, which research shows college education tends to promote. Of course, it’s by no means a perfect correlation between college and those things. I think it is very unfortunate that a career field that requires such a high level of empathy, patience, understanding, and critical thinking to do well in does not seem to be doing a good job at all of recruiting people who have those skills.

richie88
3 months ago
Reply to  AmateurNerd

Based on what I heard from the potential cops in that class, it sounds like the Sacramento Police Dept. &/or the Sacramento Co. Sheriff’s Dept. wants new cops to take college classes before they join so that they have an opportunity to develop some or all of those traits.

Klam
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
Nostradumbass 18
Nostradumbass 19
3 months ago

I guess we may find out what happens later today.

ForKingsandCountry
3 months ago

Good for them. This garbage has to stop and these guys are using the only tool they have to try to force this conversation.

Kingsguru21
3 months ago

It’s a good thing the NBA can afford to do this. I don’t know other leagues can follow suit given the real absolute disruptions this causes.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
3 months ago
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Other leagues you say?

Kingsguru21
3 months ago
Reply to  Adamsite

It was 6 teams in total not playing today due to the shooting. SF, LA, SD & SEA are the other 4. Houston and Anaheim weren’t playing due to the hurricane in Houston.

But I agree with Zirin, it’s not something I expected MLB would protest at all.

Last edited 3 months ago by Kingsguru21
154-98
3 months ago
Reply to  Kingsguru21

MLBLM

Kingsguru21
3 months ago

.

Last edited 3 months ago by Kingsguru21
RobHessing
3 months ago

Jeebus. I think back 40 years when I was only 21 years old, and what my vision for what this country was going to be in regards to equality and civility. Talk about a swing and a miss. I pray that my children do better than my generation.

L-Train3.1
3 months ago

I wonder what the fallout will be from this? I think this has the power to be a positive catalyst for change. Especially with the sponsor and league office support that is sure to follow.

Wonderchild
3 months ago
Reply to  L-Train3.1

The league purposely announced that “games will be postponed”, therefore absolving the players for technically violating the CBA. I’d assume the league and NBPA will be having a long discussion about this in the coming days.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
3 months ago

Good on them. Take the higher road and bring these atrocities to attention. I’m proud of the NBA for leading the sports world on social justice reforms. This is how you can make changes. I know a lot of people are very upset in our country today and violence seems to be the answer for some, but these players doing a peaceful protest that gets the attention of everyone, is my prefered option. Folks had better hold onto their butts if the NFL begins again. If they think they had an issue with taking a knee, just wait to see what the players have in store now.

ForKingsandCountry
3 months ago
Reply to  Adamsite

Yeah you already see the baseball teams that are going to be sitting out and I have to imagine the NFL players are thinking about this as well. If NFL players sit out it’s going to get pretty crazy because the owners aren’t going to be nearly as accepting as the NBA leadership has been. This is probably gonna get wild and it also seems like this could go right up through Election Day at the very least.

Last edited 3 months ago by ForKingsandCountry
Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
3 months ago

My guess is the NFL owners are working on a backup plan.
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Last edited 3 months ago by Adamsite
ForKingsandCountry
3 months ago
Reply to  Adamsite

Oh yeah the the NFL owners will just get more players and wouldn’t think twice.

SierraSpartan
3 months ago

Sorry for being a pessimist, but whether or not the NBA or MLB plays any or some or none of its scheduled games tonight will mean precisely dick in the streets of Kenosha.

RikSmits
3 months ago
Reply to  SierraSpartan

Sadly, I agree.

But even so, the players could not go on and just wear BLM shirts and entertain the masses with all that has happened. They did the right thing. Probably the only the thing they could do.

SPTSJUNKIE
3 months ago

I don’t know where this leads, but I am in awe and have massive respect for the courage of the Bucks players and the rest of the teams and players that are following suit.

I have made it a point here (and on STR) to keep sports and politics separate – my own self-imposed version of “shut up and type about basketball.” But this feels like a moment to drop that and to stand in solidarity with the players.

It is beyond inexcusable that in 2020 we can have the racial and social disparities we have today. That police can have immunity as they selectively shoot unarmed black men and women and that we still make major profits off of a prison industrial complex that disproportionately impacts poor black people and neighborhoods. This is no longer about “a few bad apples,” sensitivity training, or minor police reform – this is a systemic issue that is going to take a massive overhaul.

And it frustrates me as a white man (so I can only imagine the lived experience of a black person in this country) to watch as this continues to happen and we have one major party in this country that doesn’t see the problem at all and another who tries to tangentially address this gaping wound with minor salves due to perceived PR.

To me, this isn’t a problem that can be addressed incrementally through slow change over the next 50 years. This is a problem that needs to be addressed heads on today. Ultimately, I don’t think this strike by the players alone will lead to the change. But I would take this moment to encourage people continue to protest and educate yourself – but also to engage in local politics.

Given, we are probably at least a couple of national election cycles away from getting real systemic change -donate and vote for candidates for local offices who can make the direct changes. Mayors, city councils, and DAs can have a very large impact on helping to clean up cities, even if that doesn’t solve the problem nationally or end systemic racism.

Whether you agree with their acitons or not, cities like Seattle and Minneapolis have changed their police budgets and overhauled how local policing is done. Newly elected local DAs in places like SF have made important decisions around rehabilitation and sentencing. Supportive Tweets and supporting the players is a nice first step – but those will fade quickly. I personally have tried to put my actions and money where my mouth (and Tweets) are and I believe we can make a tangible difference if we act.

I understand if this gets deleted. But given the gravity of the situation and the enormous courage of the Bucks and players tonight – I thought this was worth typing regardless of what ultimately happens to the post.

Timmy_13
3 months ago
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

Great words. Definitely shouldn’t be deleted. I agree that sports should be a different world to take away all the stress. Somewhat like videogames. Just immerses you to a different plane of existence.

However, with how divided the country is and how sports can be a unifying presence for everyone, this is an absolute win for social justice and social reform. I will be the first to admit that I love their bravery. The whole system needs to change. I stand with them because they’re not only fighting for them, they’re also fighting for me. For everyone here. I’m so tired of reading “police shot this, police shot that.” Apparently the right to a fair trial doesn’t extend to black people. And I’m sick of it.

As an Asian-American myself, the last few months have been depressing as attacks on Asians due to the “China virus” by POTUS has increased racial tensions towards us. Now, that’s only a few months. Imagine what black people have been going through for the last hundred years. It’s 2020. Be better America.

9sac8
3 months ago
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

Golden…

dadysir
3 months ago

I’m having a hard time with this. A convicted child molester with a warrant refuses to be detained, gets tased fights and gets away from 3 cops, swings a knife, says he’s getting his gun one cop makes a final attempt to keep him from getting in the car then shoots this guy.What am I missing? How about comply the ACLU would love to make a civil case about this if not warranted.

ArsLegendi
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

I read your comment a couple of times to to find the logic that supports the conclusion “…and therefore he deserved to be shot seven times in the back by the same cops who later snuggled with a white kid illegally carrying a long gun and let him go home after he killed a few people with it in front of witnesses,” and I regret to inform you that I didn’t find it.

dadysir
3 months ago
Reply to  ArsLegendi

The logic is this. Cops are there to enforce laws in doing so sometimes have to make people do things they don’t want to do. In this case there was a Warrant for this guy for sexual assault. He had a history of fighting cops. They tried verbal,a taser, hand to hand, he was armed with a knife said he was getting his gun and got shot in the process. At what point do you accept responsibility for your actions? Maybe don’t rape the 14 year old? Maybe when the cop says stop you stop. At any point in the process if he had complied nothing bad happens other than going to jail. As far as the white kid goes he was assaulted and defended himself against a mob. Not the same as resisting arrest. Watch the entire floyd body cam tape,the entire camera phone videos of this guy both were resisting and escalated the situations.

ArsLegendi
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

hahahaha oh, okay, never mind. I’m not discussing any of this with people who trade in racist misinformation.

AmateurNerd
3 months ago
Reply to  ArsLegendi

Good call. Cult members can’t be reasoned with.

Last edited 3 months ago by AmateurNerd
AmateurNerd
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

Ugh. No.

Last edited 3 months ago by AmateurNerd
Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

You’re a fucking loon. Piss off.

ForKingsandCountry
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

Setting aside most of what you said, because there is zero evidence to support most of it, this part took the cake to me:

At any point in the process if he had complied nothing bad happens other than going to jail.

So many black men and women have been killed or hurt or arrested or had a gun pointed at them for no reason to know that this statement is laughably false. If you honestly believe this, then I know that you have no interest in listening to any black people or their experiences. I actually used to think this like this until I actually spoke with my black friends and realized I had no idea what I was talking about. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

Carl
3 months ago

Coming in late, and will admit to not reading the whole thread, but that pull quote

At any point in the process if he had complied nothing bad happens other than going to jail.

is essentially “If you’re a black man, the price of non-compliance is execution.”

I’m not justifying violence or destruction, but a civil society cannot exist with those rules.

Last edited 3 months ago by Carl
AmateurNerd
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

“A convicted child molester.” Um, no. No angel by any legal definition, but “child molester,” no.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/26/facebook-posts/jacob-blake-not-child-rapist/

And let’s assume, just for the sake of argument, that the cops knew every single bad thing Jacob Blake had ever done. Let’s assume, just for the sake of argument, that some of these things were very, very bad things. Does that give the police the power to shoot him in the back (meaning: attempt to kill him) because he resisted arrest? I watched the video. Those cops were in zero danger. He was literally walking away from them. One cop grabs him by the shirt with one hand and shoots him with the other. This was after he “pursued” Blake by walking behind him with his gun drawn and pointed. The whole time, the other cops are just buzzing around like bees who don’t know what to do. If you want to arrest the guy, just freaking gang-tackle him or something. There’s four cops! He’s unarmed! But yeah, lets just pull the guns out and shoot him in the back. No need for an arrest, or a trial, or a sentence, right? Nah, the Kenosha Keystone Kopz are on it.

Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  AmateurNerd

But yeah, lets just pull the guns out and shoot him in the back.

If he was a white guy with an assault rifle, they’d have bought him lunch.

dadysir
3 months ago
Reply to  Otis

I’m pretty sure if he was white he gets shot

ForKingsandCountry
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

Except the white guy there with the AR-15 who killed two people and injured a third got a glass of water from the police. Get the hell out of here.

9sac8
3 months ago
Reply to  Otis

AND 1!!!!!!!!!!!

dadysir
3 months ago
Reply to  AmateurNerd

He had a knife said he was going for a gun Watch the clip I’m sorry it doesnt fit your narrative

Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

Did he, in fact, have a gun?

dadysir
3 months ago
Reply to  Otis

That we don’t know yet. In the videos you see the wrestling match after the taser you see him heading for the drivers door with knife in right hand hear him say hes getting his gun would you let him shoot you in face? This guy made some some very bad decisions.

Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

So the department would disclose that he had a knife, but not a gun? Unlikely. Maybe they didn’t have enough time to plant one?

And congrats – you just wiped your ass with the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution.

Feel free to keep responding, I’ll listen to the advice of my fellow posters here.

Last edited 3 months ago by Otis
Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

Well, a lot of this is complete bullshit, but I’m interested in how someone swings a knife at cops and gets shot in the back seven times? Especially so considering the knife was found on the floorboard of the vehicle.

We’ve reached the point where you “don’t tread on me types” are ok with police shooting a guy because he MIGHT have a weapon. True patriots, right?

Last edited 3 months ago by Otis
Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  Otis

have fun with that.

comment image

SPTSJUNKIE
3 months ago
Reply to  Otis

Loving this new downvote feature we were missing at STR.

Already a major site upgrade.

ForKingsandCountry
3 months ago
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

I was going to give you a downvote on principle but I decided not to because I agree with it so much.

MichaelMack
3 months ago
Reply to  SPTSJUNKIE

Especially for someone as arrogantly ignorant as that. What an atrocious world view.

SPTSJUNKIE
3 months ago
Reply to  MichaelMack

Yeah, I don’t downvote because I disagree with someone. I think dissenting views are great.

But this poster is 100% the type of sludge the downvote was invented for.

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
3 months ago
Reply to  Otis

Bye.

Carl
3 months ago
Reply to  Otis

“don’t tread on me types” are ok with police shooting a guy

To be clear, not just any guy. A certain type of guy. Why aren’t the “All lives matter” people pissed when a black life is lost?

9sac8
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

I think you are better this. The real you needs to stand up. If not, then you sir are a major part of the problem.

L-Train3.1
3 months ago
Reply to  9sac8

Sadly, these days you are more often to be found wanting. Those who proudly display this line of thinking are rarely greater than the sum of their parts.

richie88
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

I watched the video. Blake didn’t swing a knife. The cop wasn’t in any danger when he shot Blake 7 times in the back.

Last edited 3 months ago by richie88
Inthestarz
3 months ago

is this society really going to play this game every time the police get into a misstep with a black suspect? Will a cop even be able to do his job?

The financial hit this is going to accrue to a league with already dwindling tv numbers..

MichaelMack
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

It’s interesting that you think shooting someone in the back seven times is merely a misstep, or if they cannot commit needless violence they cannot do their job.

That view point certainly makes an impression.

Inthestarz
3 months ago
Reply to  MichaelMack

I wasn’t talking about the specifics of the case. I don’t even know them.

I meant cops America wide

ArsLegendi
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

“I don’t even know them”

Maybe you shouldn’t be sharing your terrible opinion on them, then.

Inthestarz
3 months ago
Reply to  ArsLegendi

Well, I do know statistically, when it comes to suspects in threatening positions to police officers, African-Americans aren’t overrepresented in being killed (check google)

there are hundreds of millions of people in this country, and African-Americans are in close proximity to the police.

So, again, every incident is going to be magnified to the nation amidst protests?

154-98
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

Too much to unpack there but at what point is it acceptable for a police officer to execute someone? Usually for crimes that have laws specifically written, along with the warranted punishments.

Jaywalking shouldn’t get you shot.

Driving shouldn’t get you shot.

Smoking pot shouldn’t get you shot and killed.

Stealing a 6-pack of beer is not punishable with death in this country.

Sleeping in your bed should not get you killed by the police.

You’re an echo chamber for Trump’s “whites are killed by the police too!” quote…

Inthestarz
3 months ago
Reply to  154-98

Its not whites are killed too.

per 10000 fatal encounters whites have with police, 4 whites are killed.

For blacks, per 10000 fatal encounters, 3 are killed.

I am not disrespecting the victim though

Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

Weird, no link.

BestHyperboleEver
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

I would think per 10000 fatal encounters with police at least 10000 people would be killed.

Seeing as if at least one person wasn’t killed it wouldn’t be a “fatal encounter.”

Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

I suspect there’s some mathematical wizardry in your first paragraph, and I’m assuming you’re contorting the “suspects in threatening positions to police” piece. Black Americans are killed at a higher rate by police officers than Whites.

And you’d have to explain what your point is in the second paragraph as well.

Inthestarz
3 months ago
Reply to  Otis

the 3/10000 – 4/10000 stats that are all over twitter are from African American Ronald Fryer at Harvard

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/empirical_analysis_tables_figures.pdf?mod=article_inline

For a more offensive link for some – https://www.unz.com/article/the-manufactured-crisis-of-police-racism/

Are there stats detailing Blacks being killed at a higher rate?

The second paragraph means there are tens of millions of African Americans and many encounters with cops in the country. Circumstances may dictate there will be incidents

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

I get it. Math is hard.
comment image

Last edited 3 months ago by Adamsite
Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
3 months ago
Reply to  Adamsite

How about I put it simpler. African Americans make up about 13-15% of the US population, but constitute nearly 25% of the fatal shootings by police.

This is like debating someone who says Player A is awesome because they score a bunch of points and get rebounds vs. the analytical data that shows they make their team worse by getting a bunch of points and rebounds.

It ain’t rocket surgery.

Inthestarz
3 months ago
Reply to  Adamsite

And those numbers exist because there are an actual large segment of cops who wake up consciously enjoy killing people of different races?

Kosta
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

Maybe not an army of them. But probably a higher number of bad apples than you’re giving them credit for.

comment image

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5963895/Four-Alabama-police-officers-suspended-making-alleged-white-power-gesture.html

andy_sims
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

Judging by how many cops are in the Klan or other racist groups, yeah, absolutely.

But don’t worry, pal. When you eventually shoot a bunch of POC, you’ll be treated to Burger King on your way to the station.

BestHyperboleEver
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

It’s Roland Fryer. He isn’t currently at Harvard. These facts, along with the fact that he’s African American, are irrelevant to the quality of his research and analysis. I should also point out that he’s an economist and his research is based on the application of economic theory and models.

The paper in question has been around for years and an actual deep reading (which I was forced to do for a professional development) or his methodology and reveals… well… here’s a nice synopsis:

https://scholar.harvard.edu/jfeldman/blog/roland-fryer-wrong-there-racial-bias-shootings-police

If you aren’t inclined to read this or the other papers that deal with Fryer’s data set and findings, here’s the money quote from this one:

Properly interpreted, the actual result from Fryer’s analysis is that the racial disparity in arrest rates is larger than the racial disparity in police shootings. This is an unsurprising finding, and proves neither a lack of bias nor a lack of systematic discrimination.

There have also been countless other studies on the subject. Which makes you wonder why some people like to trot this specific study out so much.

CoreyBrewersD
3 months ago

At the risk of being eviscerated I put this out.
If you see a gaping lack of understanding, on my part please help fill the void with something positive. Lack of understanding, and divisiveness, like it or not is exactly why we have the shitty political climate we have come upon. Divide and conquer is the game, and we are being divided and “conquered” as we speak.

Let em start off with I have a hard time believing that ordinary people are out to kill someone. Holding the life of the adversary in so low esteem that the shoot to kill decision could come to a binary decision, is not possible. There is a lot going on.

I am sure/ I agree that race plays a large part in these horrible events, but to assume the result was purely a race induced outcome is overly simplistic. I have skimmed the article, and the studies listed. I say skimmed because I am looking for a regression/ model that factors in variables other than race. These studies use models and the elegant math, that are always limited by available raw data. It is up to the owner of the study to find ways around missing data that one would assume would have an effect. The lack of certain variables or accounting for them in the math throws the entire study into disarray/ or slants it one way or the other, thus (usually) peer review, but again if the variables aren’t available… I would like to see a regression that looks at race as one factor, not THE factor (I am sure it is a factor). What about family structure, income stability, level of education? For both the victim and the shooter! These things are not routinely in the police reports used to create the data sets, maybe they could be added to get to some potential factors that can be worked on. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems.

Kosta
3 months ago
Reply to  CoreyBrewersD

Great idea, CoreyBrewersD! It’s now up to you to write up that paper! 😛

Nothing you wrote seems to deserve being eviscerated, IMO.

I gave you a thumbs up specifically for this part, which I think rings true:

Lack of understanding, and divisiveness, like it or not is exactly why we have the shitty political climate we have come upon. Divide and conquer is the game, and we are being divided and “conquered” as we speak.

I know it’s tough right now because it seems like the U.S. is traveling in two different directions. I’m really scared for our country. We’ve been damaged, and need to heal in a lot of different ways.

Tankathon
3 months ago
Reply to  CoreyBrewersD

Family structure, income stability and level of education is very much tied to race, unfortunately. POC, especially African Americans, live in some of the poorest neighborhoods. If you live in a poor neighborhood, you most likely go to a crappy school with insufficient resources. If you live in a poor neighborhood, your mom or dad may be working 2-3 jobs to try to make ends meat (Not mention how out of date America’s public transportation is where it makes it difficult to not have a car to find a good job). if anyone in this Situation happens to rise up and go to college, they are already wildly unequipped. Obviously, none of this takes you out of the race, but it definitely puts you at a different starting point. For others that don’t, it’s a wash, rinse repeat for the next generation.

Kosta
3 months ago

I’m guessing someone like Rush Limbaugh puts it out on his show, and his listeners keep a file of it to bring up whenever a high profile police shooting of a black man comes up.

Maybe someone other than Rush nowadays, though. I have no idea who folks are listening to nowadays.

richie88
3 months ago
Reply to  Kosta

My parents are conservative (& my dad is very conservative). Both of them watch Sean Hannity & read the Wall Street Journal (the op-ed section of that paper is the only part that’s very conservative, but it’s the part they believe the most). My dad also listens to Limbaugh & Dan Bongino.

Kosta
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

Thanks for sharing that. I hope you aren’t takings his paper as gospel, however, because it has come under criticism.

I didn’t know about Fryer before you shared your link, so I did a quick look on Wikipedia just to get a quick summary of the reaction to his work:

The study generated considerable controversy and criticism.[12][13][14][15] Fryer responded to some of these criticisms in an interview with the New York Times.[16] In 2019, Fryer’s paper was published in the Journal of Political Economy.[17] Other scholars criticized Fryer’s study, arguing that due to selection bias, he was unable to draw any conclusions about racial bias in shootings from police stops. If police are more likely to stop a black person than a white person, then the average white person that they stop might be dissimilar to the average black person (for example, the white person might be behaving in a more threatening manner), thus leading to faulty inferences about racial bias in shootings. A 2020 study by Princeton University political scientists disputed the findings by Fryer, saying that if police had a higher threshold for stopping whites, this might mean that the whites, Hispanics and blacks in Fryer’s data are not similar.[18] Nobel-laureate James Heckman and Steven Durlauf, both University of Chicago economists, published a response to the Fryer study, writing that the paper “does not establish credible evidence on the presence or absence of discrimination against African Americans in police shootings” due to issues with selection bias.

Nobel laureate James Heckman and Steven Durlauf respond to a widely publicized 2018 study by Roland Fryer:

In our judgement, this paper does not establish credible evidence on the presence or absence of discrimination against African Americans in police shootings. We applaud analyses of data about police use of force of any type. But it is important to state clearly what the available data do and do not prove. The evidence provided in this paper fails to give any reason to conclude disrimination is absent.

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/710976?journalCode=jpe&

Fryer himself even points out some of the difficulties in data collection in that paper you shared:

…very little data exists to understand whether racial disparities in police use of force exist or might be explained by situational factors inherent in the complexity of police-civilian interactions. Beyond the lack of data, the analysis of police behavior is fraught with difficulty including, but not limited to, the reliability of the data that does exist…

One of the key limitations of the Stop and Frisk data is that one only gets the police side of the story, or more accurately, the police entry of the data. It is plausible that there are large racial differences that exist that are masked by police misreporting. The Police-Public Contact Survey is one way to partially address this weakness.

 There are a variety of potential reasons for these stark differences. For instance, the PPCS is a nationally representative sample of interactions with police from across the U.S., whereas the Stop and Frisk data is gleaned from a rather aggressive proactive policing strategy in a large urban city.

 In the Stop and Frisk data, 15.3 percent of whites incur some force in a police interaction. In the PPCS, this number is 1%.

Putting the results from the Stop and Frisk and PPCS datasets together, a pattern emerges. Relative to whites, blacks and Hispanics seem to have very different interactions with law enforcement – interactions that are consistent with, though definitely not proof of, some form of discrimination.

 …even when we take perfectly compliant individuals and control for civilian, officer, encounter and location variables, black civilians are 21.2 percent more likely to have any force used against them in an interaction compared to white civilians with the same reported compliance behavior.

More from Fryer in that paper you shared, where he states:

Blacks are 53% more likely to experience any use of force relative to a white mean of 15.3 percent. 

black civilians are still more likely to experience police use of force.

The use of high levels of force in these data are rare. Yet, it is consistently rarer for whites relative to blacks.

That is something to keep that in mind when trying to analyze the imperfect data about fatal shootings. There is so much more to it than the simple statistics you picked out.

Inthestarz
3 months ago
Reply to  Kosta

Thanks Kosta. You seem to be on the ball. I was wondering if you could address the Unz article, and the findings it cites, as well.

At the very least there are conflicting reports, and IMO Wikipedia has a liberal bias. I’ve still yet to consistently see data supporting the rampant racism of the police force in general

RORDOG
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

now do statistics for police killings per capita in the US versus other industrialized countries (check google).

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
3 months ago
Reply to  Inthestarz

and African-Americans are in close proximity to the police.

So you admit the systemic racism in the situation?

Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  Adamsite

He was so close to touching on something true, right?

Adamsite
Nostradumbass 14
Nostradumbass 14
3 months ago
Reply to  Otis

Yup, saying the quiet part out loud. It is becoming a trend these days.

ForKingsandCountry
3 months ago
Reply to  Adamsite

It sure doesn’t seem very quiet anymore…

ArsLegendi
3 months ago
Reply to  MichaelMack

Well, he is all about imprint.

Markaroni
3 months ago

“What does this accomplish?”

Well if you were among the 2 million or so people (per game I believe) planning on watching the playoffs, your focus is now on Kenosha.

The players have the public’s attention, and that’s probably the most valuable form of currency for situations like this.

I feel like that’s obvious, but apparently not, according to some social media comments…

MichaelMack
3 months ago
Reply to  Markaroni

I hope they keep playing games for this exact point. Look at some of the remarkable commentary we have already witnessed coming from players and coaches.

Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  MichaelMack

I suspect they’ll take a few days then keep going, depending on how the owners respond.

dadysir
3 months ago

Just for clarity here’s a picture of the guy with a knife in left hand. The facts are this he showed up at girlfriends house going crazy waving the knife she called 911 asked for help. On the way there dispatch tells cops about warrant and his history. They show up he won’t comply they use taser it doesn’t work try to stop him going to car to get gun he says he has he gets shot.

RORDOG
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

I’m so confused why you’re going to such great lengths to try to prove a man you’ve never met deserved to die (or at least be paralyzed). I’m curious, though, have you ever done the same amount of research for any other police shootings in the past? If so, have you ever come to the conclusion that the officer(s) involved used excessive force?

CoreyBrewersD
3 months ago
Reply to  RORDOG

I read his “great lengths” are to say that the victim had a say in this. Sure if he complied he still risked injury or death but I would assume a much lower risk than not complying ( they had guns drawn). I don’t think, nor do I think dadysir thinks, the guy “deserved” to be shot once or 7 times. I wasn’t there nor were any of us. The shit gets real when the guns get drawn. I can tell you in my case, it wasn’t personal, the guy was doing his job. I can see how it came to be that complying is a risk not to take in minority communities. I would like to know how we can get back to “let him do his job” of sorting out what the hell is going on, it is his job.

Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  CoreyBrewersD

It’s not so complicated for me. We as a society have allowed it to be acceptable practice for a police officer to shoot first, if he or she thinks they MAY be in serious danger. They don’t necessarily HAVE to be in serious danger.

And, as a group, police have talked themselves into the idea that they are ALWAYS in danger.

That’s what needs to change, IMHO.

By the way, police officers have a lower mortality rate than landscapers. I won’t deny their job is hard and at times dangerous, but it should have an extremely high degree of responsibility since they carry weapons.

Also, let’s not forget that they are obligated to protect the Jacob Blakes of the world, like it or not.

ForKingsandCountry
3 months ago
Reply to  dadysir

That’s a knife? I mean it might be but I sure as hell can’t tell from that grainy picture. Here’s a link to an actual article discussing what has and has not been said and confirmed https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wisconsin-ag-says-jacob-blake-was-near-knife-single-officer-n1238288 .

It sure seems like you have managed to craft an entire narrative that has not been corroborated by local or state authorities. It makes me think you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Minja25
3 months ago

People on both sides are being disingenuous. One side is claiming they know he had a knife in his hand and was saying he was going to get a gun. The other is saying he was just walking away and got shot in the back in cold blood in front of his kids.

The truth is that he had a warrant, resisted arrest, evaded the police and reached into his vehicle for something. That’s suicide by cop if you ask me. This isn’t a case where a cop asks someone to see some ID and then they reach for their back pocket and get shot. This man escaped police and went and reached into his car for something. Don’t pretend like we don’t know how that can end up. If your answer is to wait to see what he’s got before reacting, then you’re dead if he has a gun. Police are trained to not take that chance and nor should they.

ForKingsandCountry
3 months ago
Reply to  Minja25

And yet he didn’t grab a gun, there is no evidence of a gun and the cop literally had a hold of his shirt when he shot him in the back 7 times. I’ve also never seen someone “evade” police by walking away slowly. But none of that is really relevant. The only thing that’s relevant is whether or not his actions are punishable by death. If you believe the answer is yes, then there really isn’t a whole lot to discuss because you don’t actually care about justice or anything like that.

Otis
3 months ago
Reply to  Minja25

Police are trained to not take that chance and nor should they.

Congratulations, you’ve just given police the power to pass the judgment and execute the sentence. I suppose we can just get rid of the court system now.
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Last edited 3 months ago by Otis
ForKingsandCountry
3 months ago
Reply to  Otis

Whenever I hear that these are not systemic issues and then people make statements like that one, it just boggles my mind. That statement is the freaking point! We are not supposed to have a system where the cops are judge, jury and executioner and yet so many people seem totally fine with that paradigm. If our system of policing has led us to a place where, “Police are trained to not take that chance and nor should they” then we need to figure out a different system. It’s insane.

cbrody
3 months ago

I’m 100% down with cause. Always have been and always will be. That said, at first I was skeptical about the impact that boycotting a game would have. After reading some of the explanations and stories from players (specifically Moe Harkless and Fred Van Vleet) I hope they shut it down for the season.

I don’t know if it will change anything but some things are worth fighting for. If they are willing to forgo the rest of season and walk away from the money I will have a ton of respect for all of the players.

CoreyBrewersD