The Kings Herald Show returns with Jerry Reynolds, Will Griffith, and Tony Xypteras to break down some of the biggest (lol) storylines from media day, and preview the upcoming season.
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SP,
Please don’t trade for Duren and give him 5/$200 mill plus.
Not worth it for a player that can be played off the floor and who was unplayable in the playoffs last year.
Yup, I’m officially in this camp now as well. Only part of it is last year’s playoffs, the other is he’s just not the great at anything. I fear if you put him on this Kings team that doesn’t have Cade and Ausar and you get Kenneth Farried.
$200M for 5 years for a dude that you can’t pinpoint anything the excels it is pretty scary.
Part of me wonder if Detroit is doing this in order to move off of him. They may feel he’s not worth more than $30M, but know he wants $45M, and are tempting teams to trade for him so they can cash out.
We’re worried about playoff performance. How optimistic!
The joke indeed lands, but that is because the bar is tripping low. It’s no my money, but it is my fandom salary cap. If playoff performance is a factor in evaluating worth, then it is 100% fair to say Duren fails the sniff test.
I should also point out, that Sabonis’ playoff numbers are nothing to wag a stick at either.
All jokes aside, $40M annually average is rarified air in the NBA. Like you said, Rob, it’s probably not going to be nearly as impactful in 5 years with the way the salary cap goes up, but if we look at the $40M players in the league right now, I’m not sure Duren is in those tiers.
If we just look at Domas and LaVine, one is an elite rebounder and excellent playmaker for his position, but genuinely flawed in other aspects of his game. LaVine, equally flawed in his all around game, is a gifted scorer who can hang 40 points on an opponent on any given night while shooting at an elite level from 3.
As I’ve mention more than a few time, Duran doesn’t have that “it” factor in any facet of his game. I’m glad the great Jerry Reynolds agrees in this podcast. As of today, Sabonis is still the better basketball player.
if Sabonis is traded do not do it for Duren. I personally would like Max and Dylan over Duren. I don’t know what Sabonis is worth on today’s market but not for Duren. Maybe a good young player and a couple of firsts. I to would like to give Saluan a shot.
PS. How about Sabonis for Barrett, Graves and a 2027 first rounder?
I think Jerry put it in the simplest terms when he said as of today Sabonis is the better player. He may not be next season, but Duren may not surpass Sabonis for years, if ever. One is a known commodity and the other is still relatively unproven. So the idea of attaching picks with Saboins to get Duren seems like nonsense.
I’m still waiting to see if Maxi and Dylan can make a leap. As of today they are backups on a bad team, maybe 3rd stringers on a good team. Time will tell but I don’t see a good reason to dump Sabonis in favor for them. If it is tear down for picks and prospects, sure, but I don’t know who would offer that for Sabonis.
I think I’m in the camp to wait and see if Acuff is indeed the cornerstone in which to build around. If so, then go from there. If not, the Kings are up a creek.
I’m not advocating for Duren, and Sabonis (whom I love) may currently be the better player, but Duren is on the better Acuff timeline, and his skillset vs. Domas’ skillset may fit Acuff better.
Duren was a red hot commodity right up until the playoffs, where his inexperience and tough matchups combined to tarnish him a bit. I don’t know that he is done growing as a player yet, and that is what you are buying if you buy him.
He could absolutely wind up being the wrong answer, but if not Duren, what is the plan? That is the plight of the Kings right now. They are not good, they are not as rich in future assets as a lot of other teams (many of whom are amazingly younger than the Kings), and they are definitely talent poor. And most of all, they have one of the worst owners in professional sports (scoreboard).
I agree with anyone that says that desperation is no way to run an NBA team. But given that the Kings are a borderline NBA team, it is really the only way in Sacramento, under the circumstances. Long shots and lighting in bottles. 98% sure to come up a loser, but what is the other way out if Vivek doesn’t sell?
What keeps nagging at me is that if Detroit, who just had 60 wins and has all the pieces to win now, is balking at giving Duren any more than $40M, what makes the Kings brass feel he’s worth it on a shitty team?
Detroit can easily afford to pay him more and keep their titile hopes alive, but they are aren’t. That’s a big red flag to me.
I guess I feel there are better long shots and lightening in a bottles out there. Go chase a prospect or solid player that’s not asking for near max money, especially in this apron era.
Detroit’s position is obvious: They have to pay Cade a crap ton, they just signed Thompson to a bunch of guaranteed money, and they yet they are still willing to give Duren $40m per. Right now their deals with those 2 averages out to over $80m per year. Add Duren to that and … that’s a lot!
You can’t max out everyone with today’s financial restrictions. It’s just not feasible to max out more than 2 players.
Duren may not like that or agree to it, and that’s fine. But it doesn’t mean that Detroit doesn’t value him. It just means Detroit’s value of him isn’t the max, since they have other mouths to feed.
But that is what contenders do and Ausur isn’t maxed out. He’s on a Keegan type deal
OKC has 3 dudes making over $40M. Minny has 2 and one making $36M. Knicks have $100M in KAT and OG alone. Philly has two dudes making $57M and on one making $40M!
Detroit’s big 3 would be at Cade at $50, Duren at $40M and Thompson at $26M. That is small potatoes when it comes to spending on your big 3 on a 60 win team.
It all comes back to my gut feeling that he just isn’t worth it, and Detroit knows it. So why would he be worth it on a shitty Kings team, especially at more than $40M per year?
Yeah, which is exactly why they offered Duren $40m per! lol
We are talking about the Kings here. Who do you want the Kings to spend that money on if not Duren? (Realistic options only please!)
In all honesty, no one. They don’t have money to spend until next summer. I’d prefer to they take on some bad deals that come with picks and load up the draft asset cupboard.
I feel the Kings should only dish out that kind of money if they are ready to compete. Right now they aren’t anywhere near that level. At minimum they can just load up on some smaller more movable contracts that they can use in the future for trade.
I’d like it if they somehow entered next season with Keegan as their highest paid player with a bunch of mid-tier contracts that can be used to trade for a “star” contract when one comes available as opposed to overpaying for one in free agency. It would also give time for Acuff to grow.
I think the worst case is overpaying for Duren only to find out that Acuff isn’t the dude you can build around. Then the Kings would be more fucked than they are now.
That’s the whole game though. It’s all a risk, but running a team via intentional risk avoidance is a guarantee of failure.
Also, I don’t think that Duren at $44-$50m through 2030 is going to prove to be all that prohibitive. It also gives you an NBA salary that can fit into a deal when [insert name of next disgruntled NBA star] becomes available.
At worst, I see the Kings getting stuck with a 20-10 or so guy who will turn 27 at the end of that contract. /shrugs
(Also, all of this is for funs and giggles and I don’t think there is a high probability path to get him to the Kings anyway! lol)
To the point of my comment you are responding to, okay, say you don’t pay Duren and you let Domas/Zach come off the books. You will be paying some other collection of meh vets all that money anyway! Is that really better?
If those vets you are absorbing into space via trades come with picks, YES! that is better. You and I both know the Kings aren’t building through free agency. It’s either trades for draft picks that will build a successful team here.
Follow the OKC and Spurs model. Small markets need to build that way.
Nothing in Vivek’s or Perry’s history indicates this is how they would ever operate.
That’s the problem. I think I’d rather take a flyer on Duran than sign 40 mil in Schoders.
But you don’t have to sign $40M in Schroders. Keep your powder dry and sign some one year deals to hit 14 players, leave a shit ton of cap space to make a deal when other teams get apron desperate. You may be able to poach a very good player for next to nothing.
Example:
Grizzlies Acquire Isaiah Stewart, Aj Johnson, D’Angelo Russell, Conditional First Round Pick, Three Second Round Picks and Second Round Pick Swap in Six-Team Trade
Oh, I know. That’s what I’d do, but that’s not what the Kings do.
Well sure, but it how they should do it!
If your belief is that the Vivek Kings never operate in a sound manner, then they might as well just throw $40+M on an average dude, then I don’t don’t know what to tell you, because that is basically just showing shit at a wall to see what sticks.
That’s the whole rub. Duren could turn out to be that or an all star type dude. It’s a risk and everyone’s assessment may be different.
I’m saying I would rather spend that money taking risks on young guys who may hit, as opposed to more vets like DeRozen or whoever else is a known commodity and is more of the same.
For sure, I agree the Kings should be taking risks on young guys that can hit, but I’d prefer to do that via the draft or acquiring prospect on a rookie scale/cheap deal. The thought of $200M for 5 years to a guy who had one good season playing with a top 5 player, who also happens to be a PG setting up every night, scares me.
For a loose example, Kenyon Martin looked like a future super star playing with Kidd in NJ. He made the all-star team his last season there (also his 4th season). He was 9th in DPOY voting as well (Duren just finished 11th)
Once he got to Denver, and without Kidd, his game came crashing down to Earth. Denver, by the way, gave up three future firsts and handed Martin a fat contract to get him to come to Denver.
Totally agree with this. I hope that Acuff will be great but what if he isn’t
There has been a degree of Sabonis slander, and he has some holes in his game but there are things he can do at this level that others can’t makes you wish if they found a big to partner him with and maybe paid him a little less to see what could have been
He has played in the playoffs twice.
His first time he shot 65% and maintained his season averages for pts and rebounds. He was 21.
The second time (when he was 22) his numbers dropped but still averaged 10 and 8 while shooting over 50%.
Also, there are legit questions about how the Pistons were coached in the playoffs last season.
Who do you want the Kings to spend that money on if not Duren? (Realistic options only please!)
Fair to question his intelligence for turning down $200,000,000 at 23 years old with a chance to return to a team with legitimate title hopes for being one of 4 centers in Sacramento.
yeah, at this point I am more interested to see Domas and the continued development of Raynaud, especially now that training camp has started. That said, if Duren does not sign and takes the QO, he’d be on the watchlist this season.
I don’t really understand this, wanting to keep Sabonis and seeing his growth because he is exactly what he is.
he is a very limited playoff player. Can’t shoot, doesn’t defend very well.
why wouldn’t you take a risk on somebody like Durren
we already know what we have in Sabonis and he’s not the cornerstone, especially if they don’t run the offense around him. If you’re worried about Durren being limited in the playoffs, bonus is even worse in the playoffs.
I don’t think it’s gonna happen, but this is a risk worth taking. At least you’d be getting a kick ass defender and possibly more
your comment is trollish.
Why?
Not that I love the possible move or think it would even lead to playoffs. But at this point if any Kings player gets played off the floor in the playoffs in the next 3 years it would be a big accomplishment. Worry about that when it comes…maybe shortsighted and leads to the problems the Kings always have but damn just give me a Beam Team or slightly under competence at this point. I got a low bar…
I find these takes interesting. Somehow, players who can be “played off the floor” still seem to be getting traded for multiple 1st rnd draft picks across the league.
Jerry calling Matt George a slurper? Epic!
Nice story about meeting 1951, Will.
Matt George may take the title as worst Sacramento media member.
Grant just weighed in on Boogie yet again, just because Boogie told a crappy story about a weird-ass former Sacramento media member (we all knew it and joked about her creepy writings in real time!).
That crown is secure until he fucks all the way off.
I don’t know,I kind of like spurned Grant.
Couldn’t stand him when he was Vivek’s #1 shill, but now he’s free from the “org” and doesn’t hold back.
Matt George is like pre- firing Grant… without the experience or the knowledge.
Yeah, we just won’t see eye to eye re Grant. I couldn’t listen to him even before he got fired. Then he pulled his own pants down and finally truly showed his own ass to the world.
I guess yelling and insulting callers and making grandiose sports statements with no ability to explain them was just not my bag. /shrugs
He just isn’t very smart, so he was bad at the radio show host side of things. He was, however, a talented play by play broadcaster and he and Jerry had a good thing going for a while!
Yep. Great play caller / broadcast guy, annoying ass talk show host.
Truly hope Kings don’t use future cap space on Duren . Getting younger is a worthy goal but not at the expense of all future cap space for this Diva .
You know the season is doomed when the worst case scenario is a bottom 3 finish and best case is 4th worse. I think it’s 50/50 on what happens there. Putting all your hopes on Acuff might lead to disappointment.
100% this. I would only add that the worst case scenario is dealing a bunch of future picks for Zion (or Ja Morant, Paul George) and immediately extending him, and THEN finishing fourth worst.
good episode as always. looking forward to the season.
Hey Will, thanks for the shout out!
It was great meeting you and that encounter inspired me to come back and be more active around here again!
So, if you don’t like my comments y’all can blame Will! (Although blaming Greg is still and always acceptable!)
Just please don’t boo.
Finally got around to listening to this. Great stuff as always, and I’m happy I made Jerry “cackle for 30 mins”.
RANDOM
I was at the Kings’ new food reveal today, and I have to admit, the new menu items—and there are quite a few—are pretty impressive. Two big thumbs up. Credit where credit’s due.
For those who buy tickets of course. 😉
Your Sacramento Kings: Eat your feelings!
And…….it’s over. Time to move on.
My prediction: he underperforms this year compared to last year. This was probably better for the Kings but maybe I’ll be wrong and he turns out to be a multi-time all-star.
Time to trade for Kuzma!
You’re mean
Inconceivable!
Far too young at 31. He can’t become a King until he’s at least 35 to sign his last NBA deal. That way Kayte can inform us all when Kuzma passes Jeff Green for the 612th spot on the NBA all time scoring list.
Ding dong this year’s Kuminga is dead.
Last year’s Kuminga is still very much alive. I expect a massive overpay in the offseason.
Don’t put that out in the universe!
Good.
So is it back to “Kuminga Watch!” now?
A special shout out to all of you having lengthy discussions about a player whose agent simply used the Kings as leverage. We’ll meet here again I’m sure.
Yeah, we knew but it’s still more fun than debating rotational minutes between Domas/Maxine/Cardwell/Achiuwa/Simmons at the five!
This may be the rare dual leverage situation.
Agent: The Kings want him!
Pistons: The Kings want you!
Speaking of leverage, I get a kick out the Pistons using the weight clause, only to pull it last minute to get Duren to finally accept the $200M contract.
I read it a little different. The Pistons wanted to low ball him big time, with like a $150m or so contract.
Duren did what he needed to do to get them to increase their offer multiple times.
Sure, at the very end the Pistons held to the $200m offer and just removed the weight clause, but they had already increased the value of the overall contract substantially and fully guaranteed all of it.
People in Detroit may want to paint Duren as the villain of the story, but he and his agent negotiated pretty successfully overall.
You could say that he weighted them out?
Things got really heavy Duren the negotiations for sure!
Well they are the Detroit Piss-Tons! Golden showers for everyone!
Ha, jokes on them! We got a champion fisherman and former All-NBA player Duren the weeks of weighting
If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he’ll play basketball for the Sacramento Kings.
I think I’ve spotted him swimming up near nimbus dam.
OT: Hmmm, interesting.
A shooing guard who can’t shoot and was likely told he wasn’t even gonna dress on most nights. Probably would have ended his NBA career, and it still might, but at least now he can try and get a chance elsewhere. Kings do have 2-way spot open and I believe he still has one year of eligibility.
Sounds like he’d fit right in on defense!
I’m glad the Pistons took Duren off the market for the time being, if only because I don’t think he’s better than Domas currently and won’t be until he learns to play better defense. I get he’s younger and has time to develop and I’d have been ok with a change for the sake of change. But a player that forces his way out of a contending Detroit squad is going to have a whole different set of realities to deal with when he gets to Sacramento that may seem “small potatoes” from a distance until you get here and realize Vivek isn’t a potato, he’s actually a whirlwind of basketball calamity.
Well said.
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