Per multiple reports, the Kings, Bulls and Spurs are finalizing a three team deal to send De’Aaron Fox to San Antonio and Zach LaVine to Sacramento. Shams Charania was the first to officially put out word of the trade and the full details are as follows:
Kings: Zach LaVine, Sidy Cissoko, three first round picks (2025 CHA, 2027 SAS, 2031 MIN), three second round picks (2025 CHI, 2028 DEN, 2028 Kings pick back)
Spurs: De’Aaron Fox, Jordan McLaughlin
Bulls: Zach Collins, Tre Jones, Kevin Huerter, their own 2025 1st round pick back
It should be noted that the Charlotte first rounder the Kings received is protected 1-14, which means it very likely will not convey (Charlotte currently has the 4th worst record) and the Hornets will instead send us their 2026 and 2027 2nd round picks instead. As far as we are currently aware, there are no protections on the 2027 or 2031 picks that Sacramento received.
For the Kings and LaVine, this is a union long in the making as the Kings once signed him to an offer sheet 7 years ago only for the Chicago Bulls to match it. It will also be a reunion between LaVine and DeMar DeRozan, who spent the last three seasons together in Chicago. LaVine is currently averaging 24 points, 4.8 rebounds, and 4.8 assists a game and is under contract for two more seasons totaling about $95 million after this one.
But the bigger deal is the end of the De’Aaron Fox era, which seemingly came out of nowhere after news broke in the last week that the Kings were preparing to trade him, with San Antonio being the likely destination. Fox leaves Sacramento as one of the greatest to ever put on a Kings jersey, the Sacramento-era franchise leader in both assists and steals while up near the top in every other statistical category. Drafted 5th overall in 2017, Fox became a homegrown All-Star and All-NBA player in Sacramento and helped the franchise end a 16 year playoff drought. This is a sad ending for a player many thought was headed for greatness, especially just two short years ago when it seemed that Sacramento’s trajectory was on the way up. Instead, now he will pair up with a superstar big man in Victor Wembanyama in his home state of Texas.
The Kings possibly aren’t done retooling their roster either. Trading Fox for LaVine doesn’t solve Sacramento’s defensive or size issues, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Kings swing some of the assets they’ve just acquired into another move or two before the deadline on Thursday. We’ll have more analysis on this trade and any others the Kings make over the coming days.
Best of luck to Fox and his family in SA. A classy young man that played an instrumental part in making the Kings fun again (for a while). I hope him and Wemby win a ring together.
NOT that excited about Zach LaVine.
I hope he wins nothing. All that talk about loyalty and promises to the fans was all fake.
I don’t blame him one bit for getting tired of waiting for this FO to get it together.
I hope Fox and Wemby win multiple rings together. For one thing, I love Fox, and for another that will help keep the L*kers from capitalizing on their apparent unfair favored status from the league high brass.
Oh, and totally agree about LaVine. Big fat Zzzzzz… snore.
LaVine was the best player on the floor in our game in Chicago a few weeks ago. He couldn’t miss, only the magic dust coming off the aura of Doug Christie allowed us to win that one.
If that’s the LeVine we’re getting, I’m in.
What’s the draft component here?
3 FRPs from what I’ve seen.
In reality 2, and 5 2nds.
this all we get for a taking back a high usage chucker!
Check the stats, that isn’t lavine homie, that’s what we sent out lol
Seriously, for anyone claiming LaVine is a high usage chucker, they need to compare those stats to Fox.
I’m not saying LaVine is better, but that kind of hyperbole is just not accurate.
I will say it. Lavine is far more efficient offensively.
bingo. And I loved me some Fox.
Only path for this team is to outscore folks and Lavine is extremely efficient — the 45% on 3PFG isn’t going to hurt when compared to Fox’s 32%. It is what it is — Kings were a 45-win team with Fox in the saddle, not worth $60MM per year
High usage chucker is a bit harsh. He’s a much more efficient offensive player than Fox. The Kings may have gotten the better player out of the deal and certainly a better roster fit as Fox and Monk had become somewhat redundant. The main concerns with Lavine are durability and that he’s a couple of years older than Fox…and cost. It’s a gamble, but people around here have been complaining McNair doesn’t try to make big moves. He’s now made two (Sabonis, which I think the Kings won), and now this. We’ll see how it turns out. Sad to see Fox go, but I’m not doom and gloom on this one.
Yeah, not sure why peeps are upset. Monk is the value play and we also dumped Huerter, so we ship out $53M of salary to add a true SG who scores the same as Fox on less volume = equally good or better starting 5 for 2.5 years with a decent bench group led by Ellis, Lyles and Carter. Add a big man who can play D and the team can compete nightly. See how that team looks over next 35 games.
Spin-off conversation: Is Carter a rotation player? From what I’ve seen, he’s above average for rebounding at his position, maybe for IQ and effort, and not an NBA player otherwise. I would feel more comfortable with this trade if Carter showed me more. But right now we have no depth.
My main issue with Carter is that he’s rushing through absolutely everything on offense. I feel like the lack of a training camp has really hurt him. The FO has seemed to treat him like he’s untouchable, for some reason, so maybe they see something that the rest of us don’t yet. I’m not worrying about Carter until this time next year.
The only thing I see is some defensive chops and rebounding, and do not understand why they drafted him. It makes sense when I heard the story that we drafted him for a trade and that trade fell through. At that point the front office doesn’t wanna come out and make it sound like they don’t want the kid, but I don’t know why he would’ve been untouchable cause I don’t see it.
I think we need to give Carter a year. Hopefully he’s showing more over the later part of this season once he has a defined role, which he’s going to have if he’s the #4 guard on roster.
That would be fair and i’m letting my bias of the fact that we could’ve had a Tristan Da Silva, which would’ve helped with our size or Daron Holmes both positions of need. But it’s always easy to be a armchair QB about drafting.
Which actually means 2 and 5 Cash Considerations.
Lol, truth.
Which is pretty fair imo
Take my photo and slightly turn it. I’m too depressed to find a dog gif.
In hindsight, maybe this wasn’t the best username choice.
yeszachlavine (?)
Thank you, De’Aaron. You deserved better than this organization, and now you have it.
Imagine going from the kings to the spurs. It’s like when I managed a motel 6 but took a job at a marriott.
Best of luck to fox, never a bad thing to say about him. Great person, kid, human, and all the stuff he is. Happy for him as well
Imagine going from a revolving door of coaches to one of the best to ever do it. That’s huge for De’Aaron.
One of the best ever. But 76 and fresh off a stroke. Careful what you wish for, De’Aaron. And godspeed.
Word up. Can say the same about just about every player on this team.
We deserve better than this organization. I demand a trade!
Fox was a difference-maker like few in the league when he was right. But he hasn’t seemed right in a few weeks, and the 3-pt shooting was becoming harder to stomach.
What really turned me off was his response after the Pistons loss. Total lack of accountability. Not the mark of a leader.
Trade deebo for butler, and Keegan for Draymond. I want to see the world (kangz) burn.
Bummer
Can’t wait to lose in r1 as the 10th seed and not rebuild. We passed on a LOT of talent for Fox too, and this being how that saga ends….nothing to say but Kangz….
Take me back to that 2-0 lead over the warriors…..
this Is worse than the Luka trade.
It most certainly is not, but I feel you, the Fox return seems uninspiring.
No, no it’s not
Zach Lavine is a high usage chucker that is going to send this team back to Stone Age. He has not improved any team he has ever been on, thus the reason he is always traded.
To be fair, he’s more efficient then Fox at “chucking.” His defense is where we will be left wanting.
Who cares about defense on this dumpster fire of an organization. Do Sabonis a solid and release him from this captive Hell that is the Kangz please!!!
I just wanted to be clear that LaVine is a more efficient scorer, that’s all.
Agree, defense for sure, but also this maybe my personal preference, but I prefer Fox’s offense.
LaVine is certainly a better pure scorer, but he does pound the ball a lot and has never been a great passer. A good shooter / scorer, but this year his shooting is a bit misleading as I don’t think his 45% from three is sustainable and as that drops, his overall efficiency and offensive impact will drop a bit too.
You’ve said it twice, and it still isn’t true.
Agreed, we couldn’t even get stronger players from SA because Fox seemingly forced us to trade with them only. We couldn’t even get pick swaps or unprotected picks. The Bulls wanted to unload Lavine for next to nothing this pas summer. The Kings will be horrible in 2 years and have no draft capital decent players. We will only be able to trade each year and/or overpay for players with less talent than Fox. We will be a laughing stock for many more years.
We really need to fire Monte after the trade deadline. He is worthless pile of crap with no vision and no negotating talent. Vivek is crap but this trade falls on Monte, even though Fox was forcing the trade at some level. He could have asked for more players from Chicago or San Antonio or just walked away from the deal!
We won’t even get a first rounder out of it until 2027! Good lord
The year is 2027. LaVine is making $49M. The Kings lose in the first round, but don’t even have our own pick, because we traded it as part of a package for a solid starter in our 2025 playoff push. However, we do get back the 28th pick from the Spurs. The board is abuzz with the possibility that Ant leaves the Timberwolves after his contract expires in 2030 and we have some hope of rebuilding in 2031, though not with our own draft pick, since the Spurs own that.
And the best potential pick from this trade is in 2031…I’ll be sixty years old by then.
i’m not a GM thank God but if I were I would not have done this trade. If I would have waited then I would. Everyone here wanted and was also said by our great GM they have coveted young up and coming players. The Sours had a ton of them and we didn’t get one. NOT ONE! What did we get a older players worth over 40 million dollars a year. He can score but unlike Fox he doesn’t play defense. Did we get draft picks? Not really. One of the first we got will never convey and one of the firsts is in the year 2031. I used to trust the FO but not now. I hope Monte has more trades coming. If not he has not addressed any of the issues at hand.
Significantly more return compared to luka and mavs
You think the Lakers would trade Anthony Davis for Lavine, 2 first and 5 seconds? There is zero chance of that. Davis is only a year older than Lavine and they both have pretty bad injury histories.
Kind of ignoring the fact that both Luka and AD are much more valuable players than Fox — those guys are competing for All-NBA 1st team, Fox is outside the top 25 in the League and isn’t getting better at age 27. He’s going to SA to be a #2 guy to Wemby, not to be #1 guy that you can build a team around. That role suits him.
Not at all. But the Luka trade changed everyone’s value.
Huerter, Collins, Tre Jones to the Bulls
J-Mac also to the spurs
Better be some unprotected pucks coming our way too.
Looks like we’re gonna need some shotblockers.
Good luck in San Antonio, Fox. At least you are going to a competent organization with a future Hall of Famer, and you’re closer to your hometown area. Spurs basically kept their current core and added Fox. They will be up and coming real soon.
Not excited about LaVine.
This FO is a joke, along with Vivek.
Maybe the FO is a joke because of Vivek. That’s where I’m at, anyway.
We got older, worse defensively and still are missing a power forward and took on more salary… sounds about right
This sounds like a trash return but we’ll see.
I can see DDR getting moved. Still too many guards.
Full trade:
The 2025 CHA pick that is lottery protected? WTF
I think we lost this one
Not quite as bad as the Luka deal, at least.
FROM SHAMS:
Full trade:
Spurs: De’Aaron Fox, Jordan McLaughlin
Kings: Zach LaVine, Sidy Cissoko, three first round picks (2025 CHA, 2027 SAS, 2031 MIN), three second round picks (2025 CHI, 2028 DEN, 2028 own back)
Bulls: Zach Collins, Tre Jones, Kevin Huerter, their own 2025 pick via SAS
So we didn’t even get the pick swap back. Lol.
In terms of the front office moves, it’s been pretty downhill for Monte since the Sabonis trade.
We really got three 1’s and two 2’s. I take my concerns back. Still not a fan of pushing for the play-in, but that is a good trade tbh
Due to the protection on the Hornets pick, it’ll be 2 1st rounders.
The Hornets pick won’t convey, so it’s just 2 first round picks.
Yep. This is where the ball gets hidden. The 31 Wolves 1st is the key asset.
The only way that I can see this trade possibly being a decent trade is if that 1st rounder is a high 1st rounder.
The 2027 SA pick will probably be a last 1st. Who knows what Minnesota looks like 6 years from now.
Monte needs to be fired
Vivek must have signed off on it, which means he was okay with Monte doing the trade.
If Vivek signed off on it you can be sure it’s a bad idea
Vivek has been coveting LaVine for years.
Would have been nice to get the pick swap back l, but mm doesn’t seem like he knows how to negotiate.
First rule of negotiations. Don’t do it with Ainge, Riley, presti or the Spurs.
This is the no duh rule.
This return sucks. Didn’t get even 1 of castle, vassell or either of the Hawks picks? How?
And Wes Wilcox.
Monte isn’t running the show and we all know it.
And even if he does get fired, it won’t change a goddamn thing. They’ll bring in another general manager, and Vivek will continue to fuck things up.
It’s really sad. Disheartening to have an owner like this.
Gotta at least get the ATL pick.
vivek and monte refuse to rebuild or at least pivot in a different direction that creates a higher long term ceiling.
The mediocrity train continues. This is a sideways move at best, which is what the FO has become known for.
In all honesty, Lavine is a more efficient shooter than Fox, spaces the floor better, more of a lob threat/athletic finisher.
The rest of his game, plus the injury history, plus the salary…leaves a lot to be desired.
FWIW, I was listening to a recent pod about a week ago with Simmons and KoC and they were raving about Lavine’s play this season and actually viewed him as an asset.
Fox has a .516 Effective Field Goal % for his career.
Lavine is at .540 EFG%, while being 5% better from 3 than Fox for their respective careers.
And while Lavine is not a better defender than Fox, does he have to be, positionally? Our guard contingent is now Monk, Ellis, Carter. If you believe in Carter’s defense (I do), maybe we just added a better offensive player and didn’t sacrifice team defense. Lavine can’t be a much worse defender than Huerter.
Editor’s note: at first glance, I felt pretty sure we lost this deal. But at the same time, I’m not losing my mind over it.
Worth noting that LaVine has been on the market for awhile. And the 2nd place offer couldn’t even beat Huerter, Tre Jones, Collins, and their own first back.
The Bucks were maybe offering Middleton’s mediocre contract (mostly due to his injuries) and a late first round pick.
Given his play, contract, and injury history there just wasn’t much demand for him.
I realize the FO was in a tough situation and Fox held a lot of leverage here, so it’s not like they actively went out and tried to trade Fox for LaVine and some mostly mediocre assets. But also not a great return for what might have been our best asset.
I think Fox, the Spurs, and Rich Paul held all the leverage here. The writing was on the wall the Fox would only go and extend with San Antonio so Monte’s hands may have been tied. For all we know the offer from the Spurs was even lower for Fox, thus Monte needed to find a third team looking to move their star to start a rebuild. LaVine happened to be that guy. Hell, we may be lucky it wasn’t Zion.
The proof in the pudding for me is how little the Spurs gave up. That’s the tell. They gave up kitchen scraps for Fox because everyone in the room knew he was headed there anyway. I don’t think there was any bidding war because Rich Paul shut down all the other teams.
No real disagreement in the micro. But in the macro, I am struggling to see a real direction here. Right now if seems like we are older and tethered to a low value player (around the league) on a huge contract and with a playing style that I don’t think is especially conducive to winning.
Obviously, you can win with LaVine, the Bulls had a good season with Ball (pre-injury), Vuc, DeRozan (when he was a top 10 MVP candidate), Caruso, and him. But even that team was 46-36 and exited in the first round in 5 games. LaVine has not played on an over .500 team at any other time in his 11 year career. Not completely his fault, but also not completely divorced from his ball dominant playing style and lack of defense.
Overall, just not a good haul for our best asset and it we don’t take this opportunity to rebuild, we have a quickly narrowing path to compete with some of the top teams int he West.
I see it as a lateral move talent wise, with some draft capital to boot. Yeah, LaVine’s contract is more, but the Kings also shed Huerter’s deal in the process. More was owed to Huerter and Fox next season than LaVine is going to get. Hypothetically, if Fox were staying, he’d be getting paid LaVine money, but for 5 more years. Folks can debate the pick return forever, but I honestly can’t recall any time in Sac history when the Kings owned two future unconditional first round picks.
Think the second part is a great point and excited to see what the FO can do here.
But I definitely do not believe that LaVine is lateral talent wise. I think with the desire for this trade, Fox is in a down season, but talent wise, not only do I think he is better, but I also think his playing style is far more conducive to winning.
There is a reason why LaVine has been on the market for a couple of years and this is I guess the best return Chicago could get whereas we got more for Fox despite him demanding a trade to one team. Even on a Supermax, if we made him available to the entire NBA on a long-term contract we would have gotten even more.
LaVine has some talent, but he’s a ball dominant scorer who doesn’t really create for others, doesn’t play good defense, and isn’t particularly long or versatile so doesn’t fit into a good team defense.
The Moneyball type hope to get better would be combining the TPE we got with the picks to add more talent so it is LaVine + ??? > Fox + Huerter, but at that point we will be equally or more expensive, older, and won’t have a lot of future assets to move so again just seems to be treading water without a lot of assets to use to leapfrog teams like OKC, SA, Houston, etc.
Hi again, SPTSJUNKIE. Long time no see, if I’m not mistaken?
I have my doubts.
Lavine has been less ball-dominant than Fox the last 4 seasons, and has a far superior TS%. His assist percentage is better than DDR’s and not that much worse than Fox’s. he’s longer than Fox and while he’s not a great defender, I think he’s not that bad. Better than DDR, who I never liked as an acquisition.
If you can flip DDR and address some other needs, you’re trending inb the right direction, IMO.
DDR only has $10m guaranteed in the 26-27 season. That could be a good value for a team. He can be moved and seen as a positive asset for some teams.
I expect the Kings to retain DDR and try to upgrade the roster by using Lyles, the MLE ($12.8m), and the smaller TPEs, plus the picks in the Fox trade.
The team was stuck in upgrading because I don’t teams were interested in the picks the Kings had (because they weren’t letting them go without strict restrictions), and Huerter. They have space under the 1st apron now, plus many 2nd round picks.
Thank you. Yes, been a bit, been very busy, but missed it here so good to be talking ball again with you guys. Just wish it wasn’t starting the day Fox was traded.
As for Fox v. LaVine. I think some of the proof is in what occurred. LaVine has been on the market or awhile and got virtually nothing. Fox sapped our leverage and yet we got more back despite the Spurs knowing they needed to give him a supermax.
Less ball dominant is tricky, there really isn’t a perfect stat for this, KFip did some analysis on Twitter and fair to say it’s close, but LaVine holds / dribbles more in the halfcourt (Fox TOP is thrown off a bit by the fact he brings the ball up the court). Note, I am relying on Fip here, didn’t dive in myself.
But he certainly isn’t as good of a passer. Assist percentage can be misleading. Depending on the site you are using it can be defined as % of team assists, which favors just having more touches.
But LaVine has a low assist / FG + FT attempted for his archetype. And LaVine also has a pretty bad 1.6 A/T. The first number is worse given how much creation he does (only 47% of his twos and 52% of his threes are assisted) and and second number is a bit better as you can’t compare him to an off ball player, but is still bad.
Do agree about some of the DDR issues and flipping him in a deal for someone like Cam Johnson can help. But I do wonder if politically that hurts us with future free agents unless we can help route him to another contender in a three team deal (convincing him to sign with us and then shipping him to the Nets in less than a season could sour other free agents on coming here).
Thanks. Hope to see you around again more regularly.
And he doesn’t play defense. We needed defense but didn’t even get that. I’m sorry but unless Monte can address our glaring issues in the next couple of days it’s down hill from here on. Too Bad.
https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1886228220925943975?s=46
Nuts and bolts, nuts and bolts we got screwed. This has Vivek’s fingerprints all over it. I’m done.
More than that: Vivek’s genitals have been rubbed all over this.
What genitals?
Best of luck to Fox. I hope he wins a ring with Wemby. He’s been Sacramento’s best player since he got here. That said I don’t hate the trade. 6 pics Huerter gone, McLaughlin want playing. Lavine can score. Puts us in the Cooper Flagg sweepstakes.
Unfortunately the hornets pick is lotto protected. That little nugget really irked me
The first round pick originating from the Hornets is lottery protected this year and then converts to second rounders in 2026 and 2027. Minnesota’s pick in 2031 is unprotected.
It only puts us in the Flagg sweepstakes if we tank.
Just to be clear, this trade is HORRIBLE. It’s a non pick, 1 terrible pick that could be 29 or 30 and one maybe decent TWolves pick in 6 years. All to pair Lavine with Derozan and become the Bulls, who have a the definition of mediocre for the last 4 years.
The only positive is, I’ve been saying the Kings are the Bulls for the last two years and now it’s actually come to fruition. I thought we were on the Bulls trajectory but I didn’t think we’d become them in a literal sense.
Kind of funny.
lavine and ddr back together with a better version of Vuc in Domas. Lol.
DeRozan must be kicking himself. Thought he left that bum behind in Chicago.
That’s a bit presumptive. For all we know DDR loved playing with LaVine. I don’t think we should speculate on their personal opinions of each other.
True but from a basketball perspective, Lavine was TERRIBLE last year with Derozan. I don’t know how you make this move without moving Derozan. What would be the point?
Lavine played 25 games last season. Hard to judge him on that.
This.
That’s fine. The Bulls were the absolute definition of mediocre during their time together in Chicago. Not to mention you have a HARD ceiling with that duo and Sabonis. I just don’t see any upside with this move. I’d much rather they move DDR for some type of wing or big help and then start Monk, Ellis, Lavine, Keegan and Sabonis. At least that lineup potentially has really great offensive potential and Keegan and Keon can cause problems on defense.
and that may come. Until the deadline, lets hold our grades.
Grade C for now unless INC.
The grade for me right now is a D- and it could improve but I have little hope it will.
Agree to a point. Willing to hold grades till the deadline.
However, my more macro worry is “what are we even doing as a franchise?”
We got worse and took on a horrible contract. We added a few assets, but improving before the deadline will likely require sending those back out and more.
Even if we land a Collins or Cam Johnson, it doesn’t make up competitive with the top teams in the West. But we also are not rebuilding. And if say we give up 2-3 first round picks for Cam, we are not going to have a lot of future assets left to chase another star player.
Hopefully the FO has a plan and can make it work. But it kind of feels like we are lacking a clear direction and strategy. We seem on a path to compete for the 5 seed and a first round exit. Maybe one exciting season where we make the 2nd round due to a perfect matchup or opponent’s injury and then lose in 5 games.
We’ve got a couple of firsts to pair with DDR now. And the guy isn’t completely without value at all, tbh.
But what does that get you? John Collins? Cam Johnson?
I like both of those guys, but I am not sure a roster of:
Monk
LaVine
Cam
Keegan
Sabonis
is getting you very far. Maybe that gets you past the play-in, but then are you beating the Thunder, Grizzlies, Rockets, or Lakers?
And if we dump 2-3 FRPs to get Cam along with DD, then does that really start to drain our future assets (we already don’t own all of our own picks). So will we really be able to improve or package some of these guys for another star if one becomes available.
Houston never tanked and built up slowly. I was a bit mystified by what they were doing before the Harden trade. But at least while they were treading water, they were stockpiling picks and young players they used to acquire Harden.
I think we have a much better and smarter FO than we did under Pete or Vlade. But I hope there is a more cohesive plan here, because I am a bit concerned we are getting trapped in a mediocre state.
I don’t disagree with any of that. To me, they have through next year to do something impactful. Really, they still need to address the imbalanced roster by Thursday. But if this team isn’t in the playoffs next year, it’s fire sale time, imo.
What if they send Demar and 1 of those picks to the Nets for cam johnson?
That would be better but I doubt it happens. We’ll see. And if they trade the Twolves 31 pick, Lord help me.
Only if it’s the Hornets pick
And that makes Keegan, what, Patrick Williams?
Yep! I think Keegan is better but yeah that’s pretty much it.
We’re the Bizarro Bulls.
Too bad we didn’t call Wizards and ask for Jonas but get Bagley in return.
So you’re bearish on this Bull sit(uation)
This is a very Monte trade, movement of contracts and gaining a couple quarters and dimes along the way.
Doesn’t solve their issues but gives them ammo which “could” solve an issue or two later.
Could solve an issue, like moving bad contracts he was responsible for signing players to.
Solving thr issue by removing an unwanted contract.
It feels like Monte’s hand was forced, and their position weakened by Fox/Rich Paul. And this is probably based on Fox’s ability to get a max contract if he’s traded now, so honestly a pretty selfish move from the Fox camp if I’m understanding this right. Player empowerment sucks for franchises like ours.
Thank you, De’Aaron. Think I’ma take a break from Kings basketball for a bit…
Typical Kings landing a playing about 4 years too late they were rumored to want. This does not improve anything. If I get free tickets to a game(which will happen with this incompetence), I’ll be leading the We Don’t Want You chants for LaVine.
This franchise is a giant waste of time lol
I just stepped back and said to myself….it’s all entertainment. That’s all it is. Are you not entertained at the moment?
To be honest, the Luka trade has killed alot of the entertainment value for me in terms of the NBA.
What’s the point in being invested in a league where one team is routinely handed superstars for free?
I find winning to be fun but that’s just me.
Sadly, aside from the LTB szn, we haven’t experienced that in two decades.
That is the greatest solace available and most salient point I’ve read.
My first response was I think one day we will be relocated. I’ve always liked to take pride that because this market has seen some version of basketball excellence it made it distinguishable even if its been poor for so long. But sadly I dont think thats relevant anymore.
We are the league exception making short sided decisions to appease or react to previous problems. This trades logic is built on aiding the present, but that logic comes only as a motivation because of a decade of ineptitude. Were making decisions in a vacuum or room of mirrors to our own mistakes.
However bad a necessary trade position seemed to be, they had an opportunity to reset the decks. Instead they made a deal 60 cents on the dollar that’s got a shelf life of 2 years, all while a conference broadly got better in the last 48 hours.
I genuinely fear for basketball here if this persists. There’s only so long can you keep up a charade we are deserving without broadly taking initiative based on your competitors. I know we are, I know there is so much potential here but there’s only so long you can say that’s possible before broadly people stop believing you.
oh they aren’t done yet……
Putting value aside, the timeline of these assets is strange. Kings are going to build Bulls East for a couple of years, get a late 1st in 2027, and then do something with the Minny pick?
Fox was a great player for us, and he will be missed.
Now bring in Kuzma
Lol.
Can you imagine a Princeton grad, who has a near All-Star player that he is trading, can’t even land Vucevic, Williams, Colby White, Vassel, Sochan, Collins (who went to the Bulls)? He got crappy draft picks too and we had another year to wait for a better return! This is an epic fail and he needs to be fired after February 6. Lavine is 30 and we have so many guards.
If we don’t get John Collins, some more draft picks, or a younger player for the future, we will be a joke in about a year or 2. This team is destined for the lottery in 2026 and/or 2027 and the locker room will be a mess very soon.
They’re already a joke now.
What a horrible trade IMO. Basically 2 higher level picks in 2027 and a who knows first in 2031. People were begging anyone to take Lavine last year but he’s been good this year. But I still hate the trade.
Barf
We need puke guy!
An overlooked thing…the Spurs gave up very little in this deal, which has little to do with what the Kings received. How did the Spurs pull this off?
Some sort of NBA cabal????
They have competent employees working for them and we have the Benny “fucking” Hill show.
McNair is incompetent, that’s how.
It was a stupid trade, Kings gave up alot and got relatively little in return. It doesn’t get Kings better now or in the future, just more starting over when we finally turned a corner.
This weekend may be my last Kings game for a while. Not giving my money to Vivek.
Going for Lavine has Vivek written all over it.
Vivek’s favoite player back in the day was Monta Ellis and Zach LaVine is the most Monta Ellis player in the NBA today.
The same way the Lakers got Luka. Blackmail!
Great – more guards. More f-ing guards. Way to go Monte. You built a team that’s completely useless defensively, BECAUSE THEY’RE ALL GUARDS. Had the chance to get back lottery picks, but nope! Can’t have the painfully obvious nice thing. Can’t address the painfully obvious needs of these teams. F it! Trade Sabonis for another guard! I’m done.
Im sick to my stomach, we got hosed.
First off…Lavine is having a great year. He doesn’t address the def side of the ball.
But a better 3 pt shooter than Fox. A couple years older.
I can’t see where Derozen stays though.
Team has not addressed the bench.
The Charlotte pick is Top 14 protected. then conveys to 2 seconds.
The Other 2 picks are the essentially late first rounders.
As much as I love Lavine’s motor.
I see teams now exposing Monk and his weaknesses. Matador defense. Questionable decision making on offense. Aggressive Tunnel vision that leads to mistakes often.
Fox was able to cover up a lot of Monk’s weaknesses. Just by teams having to account for Fox.
Ultimately, unless there is another trade. This is a one for one trade.
Spurs clearly won. A culture shift. Accountability and an organization where championships are the expectation most years. Fox will take his game to the next level with Wemby.
Kings, on the other hand, really don’t improve. Still a play in team. Team gets older.Instead of younger.
The Kings are just delaying the inevitable. A blow up. 2 yrs from now. Lavine’s contract comes up. Sabonis extension comes up. Keegan’s extension comes up.
So we’re looking at a possible 2 years of play in or best case 1st round exit.
Followed by being awful again.
Damn, you can predict where the Timberwolves are going to finish in six years? What else can you tell us about the future, Nostradamus? Please tell us!
he made great points, don’t just focus on the Minnesota pick which who knows could be great or terrible. He’s right also just delaying the inevitable. Now is the time to turn what we have into draft assets, but somehow Vivek doesn’t know how this works stil.
It just feels like something relevant to point out, especially to someone who speaks with such authority and confidence but then spouts nonsense like that.
I don’t disagree with the premise that it’s delaying the inevitable, but I also can imagine how hard it would be, when you have good players on your team, some of them (like Domas and Monk) in their prime, to say yeah, let’s blow it all up.
And while getting LaVine may be a lateral move (maybe better, depending on if there’s another brick to fall in the coming days), there are also alternatives that would have been worse. It’s hard to have faith in anything when Vivek’s paws are involved in everything, but as far as it being a lateral move, yes, but also it keeps open possibilities for entering full rebuild mode in the next couple years, while also having some more future draft stock available for whatever purpose.
And the Wolves’ pick–possibly a very highly coveted pick–is a big part of that and shouldn’t be downplayed.
Hard decisions are usually the most relevant ones or the place to start. What drives me crazy is how past ineptitude informs the present approach. The whole push and framework in chasing first round appearances is built solely on the fact we’ve been awful for so long. But that isn’t sound rationale. I find it frankly insulting.
Teams get better when they understand where there leverages lies. This teams leverage is that it has in their prime players that are more attractive as assets then they make sense as a collective unit. Especially in an arms race WC with multiple teams better than us despite being younger.
To ignore how much better your competitors are surrounding you, to ignore how such an approach is sabotaging the pillars of an inevitable rebuild is is the kind of blinders that have helped make this mess to begin with. Chasing a playoff birth is only perceived to have merit because of its irregularity in this market. In the league broadly it’s not an accomplishment.
Utah set that reset in near the exact same situation with far more success. Houston did the same. I would trade for both’s players and assets on a dime.
Wow, so the best pick we got is Charlotte’s and it is lottery protected? Why even bother including it? Just to say you got another first round pic? When in reality it’s two worthless 2nds. I’m serious, this is worse than the Luka trade. At least Dallas has a small window to win it all.
Wow this feels extremely underwhelming at this moment. DeRozan+ LaVine has proven to be garbage, you traded a Malik Monk clone for a DDR clone returning redundance again. He’s owed a ton of money over next couple years, draft compensation looks pretty minimal really. This was really Fox’s peak value, seems near bottom. Retools don’t usually work for me because you end up getting similar value in trades. Rebuilds get you the possibility of really great talent in draft without sending anything out. I’m ok with moving on from Fox, who knows he could easily be a superstar in the next couple years though. Just still feels like we’re always a step behind and below all these other top notch organizations and the moves they make.
The biggest problem with moving Fox is that he was the reason everyone else even wanted to be here. That is going to be a huge issue moving forward, the coach and leader of team are gone. Who wants to stay around for dysfunction and losing?
Getting rid of Huerter is good, please get a good wing or we are still effed.
Bulls in 22-23 had the 5th best defensive rating with Lavine, DDR, and Vucevic playing almost all of those games. Oddly, somehow.
They did have caruso and some others, but that is interesting
Caruso and Lonzo were absolute demons on defense that year and as soon as Lonzo got hurt their defense started to tank.
I would have tossed all the other firsts for Atlanta’s unprotected this season. Just get a chance at Flagg. That’s all. Just a horrible haul of picks/
Maybe senility is sinking in, but…I don’t hate this trade. I don’t think there’s going to be a drastic drop off (rotation dependent), and you got assets for the future. Better than “meh”.
I agree. I don’t see a drop off on the offensive end. My concerns are defense, chemistry, and fit.
From all that, if Monte were to flip some of the new assets and DDR for a 3 and D 4/5, they may haven something. DDR and that Hornets first (really 2 second rounders) for John Collins and you may have something.
I am with you Adam. Use the damn capital to get some length, effort and scoring.
Sorry, but Lavine having a statistical rebound on a shit team doesn’t say to me that he’s anywhere close to the player we gave up in Fox. This return sucks, and how much we drop off this season is far from the barometer I’m interested in anyway. If they were going to trade Fox, they need to tear it down, accumulate a mass of youth and picks, and try again.
Statistical rebound? Apart from his injury year last year, he’s pretty on par with what he has done over that past half dozen previous years.
Only by counting stats. His efficiency is the highest of his career this season with his efg% is 6% above his career average. More than likely we bought high on a guy that the Bulls have been begging teams to take for the last two years. They finally found their sucker.
And what about Fox who has been on a downward trend of efficiency? I’m not saying LaVine a sleeper acquire, but it’s not like Fox has been a depressed asset either.
Fox is a star and the Kings needed to leverage his value for younger talent and better draft picks. Lavine is nearly guaranteed to lose value from this point forward given his age, injury history, and aversion to defense, and there is only one potentially high value pick coming back in this trade, and it’s a total shot in the dark six years from now. This core isn’t going anywhere, especially without converting guards into another competent forward, and even then we’re just trying to scratch our way to 6th place. This trade was a huge missed opportunity.
I don’t disagree with you at all, but the market set the price for Fox. There were a reported 15 teams calling about him. If this was the best deal Monte could muster, then I think it is what it is.
I think we were shortchanged one 1st round pick, but that’s the bad management/let your dirty laundry get into the media tax.
If not Collins, try for PJ Washington from the Mavs
I read earlier today a Mavs fan suggested PJ and Max Christie for DDR?
No way Dallas does that. After stating they wanted D?
I’d settle for PJ and Dwight Powell at this point
Chemistry is only concern for me, the fit should be way better because of his shooting and true get a bucket ability
Why do you think chemistry would be a concern?
It’s the return that sucks. We rarely ever get the better end of the trade. You can count in 1 hand.
We all knew Monte was going to f*** this up, and here we are. An overpriced high usage guard that doesn’t play defense, two 1sts that are low value at this point(zero chance the SA pick in 2027 is better than 25), and five 2nds. An absolute embarrassment. If you want to be a sub, get a FetLife membership, Monte.
I don’t think it’s fair to throw all the blame on Monte when A) you don’t know what the other offers were, especially since it feels like he was held under the barrel by Fox, and B) you have the Vivek factor, and I don’t doubt for a second that his remit–which, as the owner, is the only one that really counts–was to bring back a bigger name player.
So that’s what Monte had to work with. I don’t think he should be commended for it, and some would probably say he should just quit if this is what his job is like, but I certainly don’t think it should be put on him, at least not entirely.
You are possibly right, but it’s not like Monte has a track record of coming out ahead of trades. Maybe Vivek always has his hands in the works. I’ll amend my statement to say we knew this FO was going to f*** this up. They consistently suck.
It actually makes me wonder how many times Monte has come up with a trade–come to agreement on a trade, even–that many of us would like, only to have someone else (Vivek, or maybe Mike Brown in the ear of Vivek, back when he was a trusted confidant for Vivek). I feel like the man could write a hell of a tell-all book in a decade.
I guess breaking it down, I’m not too torn up about not having to pay Fox a max deal. His athleticism is already in decline (it’s in the numbers), and he obviously isn’t a 1A star.
The Kings really hurt themselves by letting all the noise get into the media, which hurt their bargaining position. Then they failed to extract the best assets in the deal from the Spurs (The Bulls’ 2025 first, or even Atlanta’s 2027 first instead of SAS’s). They also targeted a player who isn’t a winning playoff player. But I expected this part, because they are bad at their jobs. So they lost the trade, even though they sent out the best asset. This is about what they got back for Cousins, value-wise.
The odds of them holding onto that 2031 Minny first are zero, Monte is shopping that pick with DeRozan for a star.
Yeah, I predict the picks we got in this trade will be dealt.
Demar for cam johnson or John Collins?
Don’t think either team has any interest in an older player under contract .
They better not trade that 2031 Minny pick. That one at least has a chance to be good.
+1: had we received a real 2025 1st, I would be fine with the return.
It’s like the Kings franchise got jealous watching the basketball world freak out about how poorly the Mavericks are run today and needed to pull that attention back.
Wow. Spurs give up… nothing. Bulls, an overpaid 30 year old they didn’t win with. Kings, their only good asset. The Kings get $46 million worth of a guy who won’t want to be here next year and…. a 2027 first. Kings are good at one thing: getting rid of people. Got rid of Buddy. Got rid of Haliburton because he duplicated Fox. Got rid of Bagley. Got rid of Barnes. Got rid of Fox because he was with Klutch and wanted the max. Got rid of Huerter. Not that all those were wrong. But other than Sabonis, have they ever really thought about who they were bringing in? The Mediocrity Hamster Wheel keeps turning. No youngsters? No way! 3 and D? No and no. Spurs had enough young wings to start a franchise in a 6’8” and under league. We got… none.
Godspeed De’Aaron, it was a treat to watch you play in a King’s uniform.
Bobby Mark’s on Deuce & MO said the Kings got a decent/good return. The best they could get. What he heard was that it was going to be worse.
So the issue here is that it didn’t have to be this bad. It’s only this bad because the front office has botched almost everything they’ve done for two years running which created this situation in the first place. If Fox was ready to move on, then they should have moved him in the summer. The only solace I take from any of this is that no one will remember our dumb trade because the Luka trade is so much worse.
Good info. Sounds like they had already let it go too long when Klutch made their ‘statement’ about how Fox ‘wanted them to improve’ which meant ‘I’m gone’. Spurs stonewalled them, knowing they would cave, and Bulls were glad to ‘help’ by offloading another(!) guy they couldn’t win with. Honestly, I don’t know if this year’s draft is good or not, but this is no rebuild, just another retread job, that they apparently backed into, instead of planning ahead.
In my fever dream, would have been nice to see them send a message to Klutch and let Fox hit FA, and lose out on that $77M. It’s not like we’re ever getting any notable Klutch client anyhow.
Lavine is a Klutch client…
In which case they receive zero for Fox. That is what gets a GM fired.
Getting deja vu from the DeMarcus Cousins trade eight years ago.
Not a single draft asset to help in this years draft or the next or the next, all the way until 2031….how? Spurs 2027 pick will be worthless. Be no lower than 25 by then. Not only no draft capital, no Castle, Keldon, Vassell, Sochan, or Collins? Again, although more angrily, HOW??? Complete L by the Kings. Zach is older and salary is absurd. Yeah he scores bit more efficiently, who cares. Doesn’t address forward spot, back up C spot, shot blocking, size, length, etc…so phenomenal work by this insufferable front office.
Didn’t the Nets day they wants TWO firsts for cam Johnson?
Well Charlotte 25 and Spurs 27 fit that description.
That may be the end game here. The Kings didn’t really have anything of value in the draft cupboard other than their own future picks. If Monte can now flip the capital he just acquired for a guy like Cam, Collins, or someone we haven’t thought of, that turns the Fox trade into LaVine and another rotational player.
Charlotte 25 is a mirage. It’s lottery protected. Hornets have 4th best odds for #1 pick currently. They aren’t leaving the lottery. It will end up as two second round picks.
Farewell, DeAaron. Let’s see how well you now that you’re in a well-run organization that has a clear vision for the future.
This is more for fox than mavs for luka lol
zero debate between the better current season between fox/lavine and its lavine by a mile, it all comes down to health for lavine.
fit of lavine is also better because of his shot.
hopefully front office not done now that we have real assets to flip
Dare I say, Kevin had a shot before he arrived here too.
Fox had a shot for 1 season while he was here.
He did for a season after here as well lol
Lavine is better than Fox
im just glad low motor Fox is off this team
an ode to the low motor
when I first noticed the spots on the leopard – low motor – of him taking games off in his second year rise under Joerger I knew he had a trait – lack of imprint – which would forever prevent him from being great just like WCS
At least we don’t have to see Huerter anymore!
Underrated comment.
But if everyone we sent away suddenly starts playing well, that’ll shine a light on this franchise’s ineptitude.
Does it matter if they don’t play well here?
It would just be more data to indicate that the organization’s management is stifling player production. We’d get further evidence of the root cause of the team’s continued poor performance – management rather than players’ inherent skill.
…presuming, of course, that management is the root cause. Maybe they’re not, but they certainly aren’t helping.
Fly away little bird, be free.
All that POS McNair had to do was call the spurs bluff. They wanted Fox bad and they wanted him sooner than later. You tell them we’re willing to ship him to any number of teams, some contenders and once he gets a taste of playoff success he may no longer wish to go to San Antonio. Houston, I’m looking at you. It ain’t that far from San Antonio so his wife could be close to home. Monte has no balls and is just a puppet for our POS owner!!!
Yes. Vivek is a piece of shit and the problem. This is how he does business. He’s the worst. Fuck him
Yep. This is actually where I’ve been since the Malone/Corbin/Karl debacle. We have an owner who cannot get out of his own way and empowered a Confederacy of Dunces to make his schizophrenic decisions with zero top cover. Outside of Pete D and Walton, the emotion I feel for most of our departed former coaches or executives is deep empathy and respect. It’s not their fault they were thrown to the wolves and had to suffer under a meddling maniac.
Oh and also, fire Matina immediately. She is absolutely the leak machine aiding Vivek’s bidding while running a shadow campaign to thrust any “glory era” Kings into the team without qualifications.
can’t argue with any of that
FWIW, here’s a quote from “Pounding the Rock” Spurs blog:
Fox is not an All Star caliber player, he’s an almost All Star caliber player with Superstar contract demands. Might find out he isn’t a step forward for them.
Yeah – that’s a head scratcher.
And Sac still has not addressed their thin frontcourt.
I look at this a Zach Lavine = Fox + Huerter on both the money and $ side.
The draft capital – especially 5 2nd rounders, the CHA in particular should bring some frontcourt help. Valanciunas should be Lyles and some of that. Or maybe Larry Nance, Jr. but you still lose Lyles.
That brings the Kings close to whole if they can also add a young PF. Fine. Without Huerter’s salary – they have to find money. Likely DeRozan – and he’s at $23M – too much for anything but “something”.
I like Jerry Reynolds idea for Santi Aldama or someone similar. Bobby Portis if you go older, but you likely lose Lyles. You’re still thin.
Lyles + DDR does work for Jerami Grant.
then there’s this:
Zach Lavine waived his teade exception. That gives Sac more than a $16M+ trade exception
So who needs to dip bow the threshold?
Cavs, Nuggets, Warriors, Wolves, Suns, Celtics, Knicks, Heat, Bucks, Pelicans, Sixers
Play with the trade machine – it’s both interesting and limiting.
The Pelicans still have B.I. and Zion.
The Warriors have Wiggins and Looney and other small pieces
The other teams are in the plyoffs.
And how they keep their 2 BEST picks from ATL? It’s beyond me. I mean we were fleeced
Best of luck to De’Aaron, gotta watch some Spurs games from time to time now.
But unlike majority of people here, I’m actually excited to see Zach LaVine, especially playing alongside Domas. I don’t really like this being called as Bulls 2.0. Having Domas makes it very very different imho.
Also, after this move, I’m just hoping for more minutes for Keon, and some dev time for Carter.
Yeah, I just wish LaVine weren’t as old as he is, but who knows, some players figure things out and only reach their peak around 29/30 and the next couple years could be very fruitful for him.
I can’t hate on De’Aaron, he was so fun to watch so often, but the way he increasingly gets banged up and that affects his game–not just in his performance at the time but also his style of play, which is by far best when he’s a penitrator–and the fact that he pushed for this move, really has made me want him to go.
Is this the trade I envisaged for him? No. But LaVine has impressed me more and more, and I think he could be a valuable piece, though I don’t think we should be submitting our final grades for this without knowing what else might happen before Thursday afternoon. It’s not necessarily all bad, though, and that’s without knowing what else was even available for Monte in this deal (and how much his hands were tied by Vivek).
Amazing that trading the Kings best asset did not address the teams biggest need . Although Zach is an inch taller than Fox . Sadly, not even surprised .
I want to see them back-to-back. No way LaVine is only an inch taller!
Domas was and remains our best asset.
Was Fox the Kings’ best trade asset?
Do the Kings have a best trade asset? It’s not Domas on his contract. Is it Monk? Keegan?
or Ellis? Carter? They are have value for production to contract, but I’m not a GM.
Adamsite predicted this trade a few days ago
Thanks Eddie, but it wasn’t just me. There were lots of rumors and others to the fact, especially considering Monte has had eyes for LaVine for a while now. As much as the Luka trade came out of nowhere, this Fox/LaVine trade had a lot of legs to it.
I think it’s Vivek that has it bad for Lavine. Their pursuit of him goes back to Vlade’s tenure.
I don’t recall that, but I definitely remember Monte wanting him.
If it is Vivek that has his “favorites,” much like Buddy, then there is no hope for us fans, or Monte, or Doug Christie. We fucked.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24022210/sacramento-kings-sign-zach-lavine-offer-sheet
You are right! I thought that was during Monte, but that was way back in 2018 under Vlade!!! If Vivek has that kind of man crush on dudes, then we are surely fucked.
Time flies when your organization has been a dumpster fire
Yep reading back, looks like Vivek totally rolled out the red carpet for Lavine back then.
For sure Vivek has his man-crushes both current and retired players. That’s how we end up with him putting the likes of Mullin, Dumars, and Vlade in ‘advisory’ positions.
The last few days I was literally fretting that we’d either get LaVine or Kuzma. It’s come to fruition.
Careful. We have 4 more days to land Kuzma
Apparently we were looking at trading for Lavine last season, and declined to (according to James Ham).
This return isn’t great but it’s somehow still better than I expected. Hard for me to not be super cynical of the NBA right now watching these moves.
If this is all we do this deadline Monte and Wes should be shown the door immediately after the season. If there is something else being cooked up, I’ll give it a chance.
I’ll post this again, but it doesn’t matter if they get fired. We all know Vivek is behind all of this.
He probably put them in the position where Fox wanted out. And then Vivek probably put Monte in a position where he had no leverage.
It’s the same thing with every general manager. It can’t be that they’re all bad. It’s the owner.
There is another thing here that points fully to Vivek: his fixation on acquiring specific players. We know he loved LaVine and also wanted Klay for a long time. If he’s giving Wes/Monte ultimatums and forcing certain moves to get made, I actually worry that we wouldn’t get any qualified GM if those two did leave. Instead, we’d get some cast off who could be a “yes man” to Vivek’s whims, or heaven help us, another former player with no experience to pacify the happy clapper Kings fans. It’s important to also remember that Vivek foisted Anjali into our development team with zero experience, so while I don’t love Monte/Wes they may be the thin line holding this thing together.
This is where I am leaning as well. As dissapointed as I am overall with Monte’s lack of moves between the Sabonis trade and now, I think he probably does tampen down Vivek’s worst instincts.
Agree. I think we ate screwed w Vivek
The trade is meh. I’m mostly happy I was at his final game in okc and got some great pics even if me and the other 10 kings fans watched us get beat up on. 2025 1st is basically 2 seconds. 27 spurs barring wemby season ending injury will probably be in the 20s. 31 Minnesota unprotected who knows. We still have flexibility to compete or get more assets for a complete tear down. Zach Lavine….. ya he and Beal worst contracts. Overall a decent trade imo, but not great or terrible. Was time to move on from Fox.
“Sacramento … has multiple mid-sized trade exceptions, has $11 million in wiggle room below the luxury tax line and has two open roster spots. Do the math: They might not be done.”
John Hollinger
The only way this whole thing isn’t terrible is if they actually made a deal for cam, Johnson or someone similar. I just seriously doubt it.
doesn’t factor into the equation much for me.
Other than winning a trade for once. Small markets have to draft well and win trades. See Utah and San Antonio as examples.
yeah, I’m just not as high on Cam Johnson as some of the others on this site.
Yeah, I don’t think they are done. They now have some draft capital to add some depth.
Huge disappointment. Another foolish trade for the Kings. I have tix to Pelicans game on Saturday and will miss seeing our star point guard.
Random thought I posted here last season, I said we should’ve traded Fox last season because we had no avenue for contention and needed to take advantage of the leverage while we had it. This trade is why an organization needs to have an identity in what they want to be as a team. Make fun of the mavs all we want, but their identity of who they are and want to be is crystal clear. We will see where it lands them, but there is a reason they will still be good.
Good insight about the Mavs
Solid point.
I no longer live in Sac, but I sure hope you fine Kings fans give Lavine a standing ovation of boos!!! I hope the Mav’s fans do the same with AD. I know it’s not the players fault and they don’t deserve it, but this is the only way our fan base can deliver our displeasure. I’m mean, every single time he touches the ball. Till the end of the season. He’s going to look forward to road games.
I rather Boo Fox for forcing his way out of town after all the love the city of Sacramento showed him. His final thank you to the community was to tank his value on the way out. Mind as well gave us the middle finger too. He is trash.
I think your anger and hatred is directed at the wrong person. Vivek deserves your ire. Your boos. He’s the reason Fox left
There’s no need to boo either of them.
Yeah boo vivek. Heck let’s get a chant going every game the entire game. Vivek, you suck. :clap clap clap clap:. Vivek you suck…
There’s no reason to boo LaVine, he has zero real control over this. You can boo Monte if he’s there but if you want to boo anyone, it should be booing Rich Paul or Vivek. Both have either responsibility for this situation with Fox and the messaging debacle it became or the spin cycle we’re in as a franchise.
This comments section has been an interesting read, but yours? Dude, get some counseling.
Always choose the harder right than the easier wrong.
Stay classy.
No man, that’s no way to fan. LaVine has no fault in this deal. If anything we Kings fans want to make him welcome and hope for the best.
I get the frustration and I don’t want to tell other how to fan, but booing him is just not warranted here.
Not much said on these pages at all about Huerter’s involvement in the trade. Just how far he’s fallen. He was just trade filler in this to match money going out. Not sure why we couldn’t have added Sochan in the mix to get some size. Spurs really lost very little to get what they wanted. But Huerter was one of supposed trade pieces and now he’s gone. I don’t see the picks having any trade value, so not sure what we have left to trade for roster balance/length.
You beat me to it: Sochan would have been a prize.
Spurs basically gave up nothing and got alot in return.
I really like Sochan and would have loved him as part of the deal, but also really don’t know what it does for us. To me the biggest shock is no Vassell or Johnson. The Spurs got Fox for an overpaid underperforming backup C, a long unproductive wing who can’t find game time, one unknown value first, one low value first, and five seconds. It speaks to how much we over value our assets and also the reality of how little leverage we had here.
Just my perspective, but the Kings got fair value for Fox. It’s the Bulls who got nothing for LaVine. They should be the ones complaining about not getting a guy like Sochan or Johnson.
I wonder how much extra benefit of the doubt Sochan gets for being a bit of a low-rent, modern Dennis Rodman.
Of course, I say that as someone who really hoped he would be part of the deal, so yeah, I’m part of that generation that grew up thinking Rodman was the bee’s knees and thus think Sochan could’ve done a useful job for us.
It will be nice to get a breather from all the vitriol over the due and his minutes for sure.
Actually thr bulls got the Spurs best pick.
I took my 14 year old son to a Kings game before Covid happened. You know what? I’m so fucking glad I didn’t encourage him more watching the Kings, including the Beam Year. I would hate myself for the rest of my life if he had become a Kangs fan!
Haha, hate yourself for the rest of your life? Get a hold of yourself, man!
Gotta do my Kangz overreaction lol
Good luck to Fox, Huerter, and McLaughlin.
Not overjoyed with Zach because we need more defense and fewer guards. I saw Cissoko play in the G League and think he’s an ok depth piece.
Too bad Charlotte’s draft pick has protections, though.
Was frustrated (sad bc Fox) initially but now starting to be more “meh” over the deal. Getting either Hawks pick would have likely had me leaning towards trade was OK to decent.
Think Lavine and Fox are close to a wash in talent. Both on contract for same time period. Lavine has a rep as a terrible defender and he was in his early career. There’s advanced numbers that show he is more average to maybe slightly below average now. Not great, but not someone teams target over and over. He’s been on some good/decent defensive teams.
They got a couple picks that may not be great but could be used to grease other talent acquisition. Also getting Sidy is not nothing (tho maybe close) at a position of need. Dude isn’t even 21 yet…reference Keon is 25 and we think he has room to grow.
Popovich had good stuff to say about Sidy here around 1:55 mark. Think it’s at least an interesting swing at an important position.
Not thrilled, but there is some flexibility here. Monte hallmark 🙂
I remember Cissoko during the draft. 6’6 wing with a nearly 6’10 wingspan. Has not seen a ton of playing time so definitely worth a look. I highly doubt he stays here.
He’s the one I’m wondering about in this trade. He’s a reach for sure, but man do his metrics look real. He could also just be the next Kessler Edwards, so meh.
Exactly. So no young talent to speak of in return, and an attaché case of second round picks. Uninspiring.
Even one of Vassell, Sochan or Castle would have rated higher, in my eyes.
Put me in the camp that LaVine and Fox are not that far off in value. LaVine’s hight contract and age is what got the Kings the draft compensation that they did. Truth be told, Fox’s next deal is going to be more expensive than LaVine’s and could be seen as worse in the coming years. Time will tell.
Hey! I just realized there’s no red banner!
I see one.
Kings get none of the young, interesting Spurs players. Kings get a pick which won’t convey as a 1st round pick. Kings swap Fox for Lavine in the starting lineup, while saying goodbye to Huerter’s minutes off the bench. I fail to see much upside here, unless the idea is to roll the dice on multiple 2nd round selections over the next several years while playing mediocre basketball.
If anything, I think the Bulls got the interesting deal: moving off Lavigne for Huerter, but adding Tre and Zach Collins while getting their pick back THIS YEAR! Bulls have incentive to tank, and picked up a couple of young guys in the process.
Meanwhile, the Kings are bent on trying to Frankenstein their roster into a winning product.
I am sad to see Fox go; but I knew it seemed inevitable. I thought the Kings would be in a better position than this after the trade. Only real benefit is no longer having to see KH get any more minutes for Sacramento.
If this move is immediately joined by trading DD for a starting 4 and a backup 5, one of those preferably being a young player with some upside, I’d feel like we did (yet another) soft reset but acquired more draft capital. If we keep or acquire more players over the age of 30 expecting some magical waltz to the Finals I will probably projectile vomit every time I see the Kings logo from now on.
Backup C like Zach Collins? Could have maybe gotten him and perhaps Jalen Smith from Chicago for a PF.
Smith yes, I’d have loved that, Collins has looked awful for almost two years and makes $18M next year. Pass.
Welcome to Zachramento.
“This is YOUR team, Zach! And it’s here to stay!”
It is telling that my best moments in Golden1 outside of a 1st round playoff game in 20 years is all non-Kings events. I’ll hold onto that one memory by I’m sure I’ll view it as memorable as a championship in about another 20 years. That building has no hope in it with Vivek running the ship.
I did get to go to the opening night of the Arena with Paul McCartney with my mom and dad. Definitely was a great evening. That man has a lot of stamina for being 74 at that time.
The Kings games I’ve gone to at Golden 1, on the other hand? I’ve only seen them win once in person.
I was there too! Great night.
Nice! Before Paul got announced for the G1 Center, we tried to get tickets to his show for the last Candlestick Park performance, but we were unable to on Ticketmaster. In hindsight, we’re glad we didn’t go because I heard traffic was such a nightmare, even for the people who did make it INSIDE the stadium.
I watch tons of concerts and that McCartney G1 show still ranks as one of my all-time faves.
Sorry to rub it in, but I was also at the Candlestck Park show! I was way up in the upper deck in the cheap seats…but I was there! Folks were trying to rip up the seats and signage to take a pice of history with them. Yes, it was a nightmare. We were there hours before the show but didn’t get to our seats until just before Paul took the stage. The streets were a parking lot trying to get there.
Lol, it’s all good. Glad to hear you were at a historic show! I can’t imagine how late it was when you got home once the show was over. I know Candlestick was notorious for its traffic issues since there was only one way in and out.
I was lucky enough to take a college buddy who lives in Glenn Park in south SF. We made it to his place in time for drinks and fun!
I don’t agree that the Mavs trade of Luka was worse. There was a perspective about how to build a team with that trade, a team that could compete in the post season on both ends. It may or may not work, but there is a logic there that makes sense.
Trading Fox in a deal that brings back Zach LaVine makes no sense, especially when there is little draft capital for the future, unless your team has an owner that perpetually values offense while dismissing the importance of defense.
I don’t disagree with you on the defense perspective, but I’d argue that LaVine isn’t that big of a drop off talent wise to Fox, especially when you take into his offensive benefits…shooting in particular. Now, his contract and age definitely come into play, but the gap between the two is not as wide as some fans may feel.
LaVine may well even be a bit of an improvement over Fox, but not so much that it changes the trajectory of the franchise. Perhaps, I need to accept it as a sideways move, where McNair can starting thinking about a rebuild next year. Doesn’t LaVine’s contract become a tradeable asset soon?
If the Kings don’t make the playoffs this year, and keep their first round pick next year, I like this trade more.
I think that’s where I’m at…a sideways move.
Monte avoided giving Fox his wanted 5 year extension in exchange for LaVine’s more expensive shorter deal with the payoff of some draft collateral. That’s what it boils down to for me. Either way, the Kings weren’t/aren’t competing for a title so it’s a long term view.
It sucks that the Kings still remain in purgatory, but at least they aren’t contractually obligated to if for the 5+ years… I guess?
No chance. From a value perspective, Luka is worth WAY more than what LA paid for him. That was a terrible trade and doesn’t compare to the Fox trade. And I hate the Fox trade.
See my comment above. Mavs see AD as a defensive unicorn, who can play his natural position at the 4, few in the league have his defensive skills. Mavs think the team has a better chance to win now with Kyrie and AD, and avoid being locked into a Luka supermax.
If you see AD that way, there were no other teams that could make a competitive offer.
Just the term “avoid being locked into a Luka supermax” cracks me up – aren’t those the type of players you want to have longterm?
That presser by the Mavs GM was something else, I wouldn’t be super confident as a Mavs fan that the ship was in good hands either.
Didn’t see presser.. what was the gist of it…
Not necessarily when the player’s weight balloons from 230 to 260, requiring 11 days off, as reported about Luka today.
Mavs led by Luka went to NBA finals last season and Western Finals two seasons ago . Do you think they will do better with Davis .? Plus he will be 32 and has missed a much higher pct of games than Doncic. Fakers just got their next superstar for a decade .
The Mavs could be better, balanced on both ends of the floor. I addressed this in a comment on the other thread, but the Mavs decided they didn’t want to build around Luka on a supermax deal, they would rather go for it now with Kyrie and AD for 2 or 3 years then rebuild.
Time will tell if that was a good or bad decision.
Bulls fans are happy. I don’t know what their expectations of KH are; but I’m sure disappointment will follow.
DDR and LaVine seem mostly redundant to me.
The Bulls have nothing to show for this trade other than getting out of LaVine’s deal and their own pick back. It’s a straight up sell for them…but with no draft capital.
Getting their own pick back is a huge win for them I’d think.
Wasn’t it lottery protected, so I guess? I could be wrong on that.
Ahhh good call I think you’re right. Just getting off Lavine and finally rebuilding is a win for them I guess.
Tell me there’s more, Monte. Something else is incoming and/or outgoing, right?
Theres more to the plan, right?
My 2 cents, probably worth less.
First, i wish Fox the best of luck i hope he wins a championship before he retires.
2nd, I am glad Fox it gone. I think LaVine will fill in fine and im overly not concerned at this time about this trade from a player aspect. We all saw this team playing at a high level and trying hard without him on the court. This team CAN win without Fox and it was shown during the season. I think around the league Lavine and Fox are probably pretty comparable in regards to talent wise and ranked about equals.
Last thing, is my biggest issue is the lack of picks in this situation. basically 2 first that will probably be overall useless or traded.. or used by another GM ( hopefully ). I can’t fathom the lack of usable assets this team just acquired for trading a star.
i hate this team.
Kings get better? No
Kings get younger w/ potential? No
Kings clear cap room? No
Is there a plan? I am guessing No.
So there really is no future for this team.
The team gets older and will be better capped out and will have to roll with this roster.
Your core 3 will all be 30 or older by seasons end.
Zach 30
Derozen 36
Sabonis 30
So this is what you’re building on?
This team possibly gets marginally better in the short term 1-2 years. But it’s All down hill from there. So the end game is play in and hope to get swept in the first round.
Only Keon looks like he has more upside. Carter is unknown. Murray has regressed every year.
I disagree that Murray is regressing. Yes, his offense is erratic, and his 3 point shot has disappeared in many games. But he has improved as a defender, and his offensive game may return with Fox’s departure.
Could be wrong, but LaVine’s and DeRozan’s contract become tradeable assets during next season? Can be used to facilitate trades and accumulate draft assets? [Yes, I know, the Kings never do this]
I agree, LaVine and DDR’s deals will be of value next year and beyond. Now, if Monte’s plan is to use them as such is another matter entirely.
Sad to say, but I’m not very confident that Monte will be around to deal those guys.
I feel like he got the guy his boss wanted in this deal, so it would be pretty shitty to only be fired (or not re-signed) after doing so. Then again, maybe he’ll just choose to walk off into the sunset…
Keegan is my favorite player on the Kings, he’s the first Jersey I’ve purchased since I was a kid and got an Orlando Magic Shaq jersey. But his offense isn’t going anywhere any time soon. Let’s assume this is the new starting lineup:
Monk
DDR
Lavine
Murray
Domas
Who is the last person to touch the ball on offense? Murray’s offensive game isn’t going to improve if he doesn’t get the opportunities. This team is too stuck in “win now” mode with a fringe play-in team. They aren’t looking for future assets and they aren’t working to grow their rookie deal guys.
Yeah biggest ick is the staff’s inability to see that monk or even better would be demar coming off the bench for keon. Helps murray move up a slot in the offensive pecking order, improves first team defense and gives a much needed scorer/playmaker to the second unit. Three birds one stone, but they won’t do it…
Not sure it’s inability but refusal to upset one of them
to be fair, Keon could get better. Monk is getting better. Domas has gotten better. Murray and Carter are both question marks.
I don’t hate LaVine on this team and i think if the players can now get over all this bullshit noise we may be able to string together something.
Agree with your assessment here of adding Levine and that the team might not be any worse off with the loss of Fox. It’s possible LaVine’s chemistry may even improve the team. When Fox missed 3 games in early January, the Kings won all 3, and looked great. Is it possible that Fox, although well liked, was emotionally taxing the other players with his overly excitable and flamboyant attitude, including questioning the refs calls after nearly all of his alleged no-call miscue’s to the rim and numerous drives he initiated rolling off his injured fingers? It’s definitely possible. Doug Christie informed his team he didn’t want any haggling with the refs about old shit and that lasted until Fox got back. I believe Fox was operating with an over-inflated sense of self to the detriment of the team and taking away from the team’s flow. My interpretation of his reintegration into the team’s chemistry after he missed games could be horseshit, but If he was stressing out the other players on the team and the ability to play the best they can as a team in the present moment, I’m glad he’s gone.
Most of your posts are way out in left field and I ignore them but this one gets a thumbs up.
Sabonis is still 28 and will be until the end of the season.
The more I look at this, the only ray of hope I see is the 2031 Twolves pick. I think there’s good reason to believe that is a lottery pick. The Twolves ownership situation is a mess and they made their own terrible trade in the offseason. Is anyone confident Ant Edwards is going to be on that team in 2031? I’m certainly not. That pick is BY FAR our best hope at this deal becoming anything worthwhile for the Kings.
It is what it is. The minute the FO leaked to Damien that they were shopping Fox the ceiling was put on the return. Can’t refry that egg.
I think LaVine is going to fit seamlessly into the offense. He might be the best high volume 3pt shooter the Kings have had since K-Mart. He can play off ball, which allows Domas to facilitate more, he has had less responsibility with a Fox/Monk back court. LaVine doesn’t need mid-range real estate, letting there be room for more DeMar/Domas actions. He is a lob threat, which the team does not have. He is a good ball handler and passer, and the starters might all fit together better with losing shot creator and gaining a shooter, perhaps Keegan can get some more looks, and keep refining his off the dribble game which has been looking better. LaVine isn’t the ballhawk that Fox is on defense, but he isn’t a bad defender either, and is a decent rebounder.
They have some options financially still as well, to fill out the bench, and it will be interesting to see if Carter can find a lane as well with consistent playing time.
I really liked Fox, he was one of the most exciting players this org has had in 40 years, and will miss his shot creation and ability to take over games, but I think the Kings are still set up to be competitive this year, with LaVine balancing the starters out, and hopefully being able to use exceptions and draft capital to further fill out the bench.
“Can’t refry that egg”.
Lol, I enjoyed that.
Excellent points on your assessments on LaVine with the roster. I really don’t think the team skips a beat on offense, and might even benefit a bit. We shall see.
How great would it be if we sent CHA Murray to remove their pick restrictions..
I wouldn’t send out Murray to remove those protections. There is no guarantee what the pick may/who will be. Bird in hand my friend! Murray is an NBA player.
At this point in time, that CHA pick has a chance to be top 3. If you can trade Murray for a lottery ticket for Cooper Flagg i think you do it.
I have a hard time seeing Murray being a piece of this longer term puzzle.
Lost in all this was that Fox was the lone remaining player from Vlades “Young Superteam”. Lucky I still have the T Shirt for memories.
Yup. This is now !00% Monte’s team.
Maybe if Monte didn’t treat Devin Carter like he was Castle from the Spurs all of this could of been avoided. Made him untouchable for what? Murray untouchable for what? Could of actually got Fox and Domas another star player. Or maybe if Monte would of drafted Knect or Ware some roster issues could of been addressed. But nah, let’s draft another undersized guard and hope he pans out better than Mitchell did.
Total bummer. At no point did I ever think the Kings would win the big one with De’Aaron. But I thought for sure there might be a few playoff series wins with him. I’ll root for Fox against most everyone except the Kings. I hope there is another move left with the luxury tax room created here, though I don’t really have any hope for this season.
The most intriguing thing to me about this deal is that the Kings can still go after two players they have seemed to covet (Collins and Cam Johnson) on the back of the resources they got in this trade alone. Consider:
Utah gets Lyles, McDermott, CHA first from Fox trade, Sac gets Collins (absorbs remainder in TPE created by LaVine trade),
Toronto gets DeMar, Brooklyn gets 2027 Spurs first from Fox trade, an unprotected first from Toronto, Boucher, Olynyk, and a second from SAC, Sac gets Cam Johnson and Day’ron Sharpe.
Sabonis/Sharpe
Collins/Murray
Johnson/Sissoko
Monk/Carter
LaVine/Ellis
I’m not saying it’s a dream lineup, but am just showing how resource poor we were in relation to other moves before this trade. They would additionally have a roster spot and a couple more TPEs to play with to get a 3&D guard or wing if needed.
The only positive move forward would be all in for right now. Not this 1/2 in 1/2 out bullshit Vivek does.
Though I doubt if- maybe Monte convinced Vidiot to use all their capital now on go all in. Since they had to/traded Fox
Monte used to say he’d hold onto/gather assets so he could make deal when the time came…. Only hope here is that Monte does it now.
Even then- might not get anywhere but that’s the path they should take at this point.
I’m fine with them trading everything they just got with the exception of the that Twolves pick. That’s the only high’ish value asset we got so they shouldn’t move it unless it’s for something really good.
Agree fully, and it would coincide with when much of the above core I propose above would be out of contract or likely retired. An optimal time for a high leverage pick or a top prospect.
It really was a joy to watch Fox progress from an athletic rookie with raw talent to a polished star. Not all players can add key elements to their game at the highest of levels. When he started it was primarily attacking the rim on offense, and he needed work on his mid game, free throws, and 3 pointers. He made those adjustments and flourished as one of the best we’ve had in our uniform. As a facilitator he’s done what’s needed but never was a true distributor, just not his game.
When he focuses in he can be a great on ball defender, and this part of his game also improved over the years.
He had his faults, as does most every NBa player. I don’t think it’s necessary to over analyze it at this point, as he’s left to a new team. I said this in the past, but every single player, coach, and ownership deserves credit for getting us out of that playoff drought. I commend Fox for rising above the toxic sludge that can come with being on a losing team.
In the end, he may have lost sight of whatever Zen techniques he used all those years to stay loyal. Namely when he stopped talking to the media, and recently with his lack of joy on the court.
I hope his years upcoming are healthy, and wish him the best of luck. That being said, I don’t give a rats ass about any other team in this league and all I want is winning Kings basketball.
We have got talent, and we need support on the bench, we need defensive minded bigs, and we need to establish an identity. Doug can do this, but he needs the horses for the race. Go Kings!
Fox’s first game in San Antonio as a Spurs won’t be until Feb 20th vs Suns on TNT. How potentially hot will that game be for their fans. Wonder where they’ll be after their 6 games road trip before all star break.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ll ask him to shut it down and get surgery asap.
I would do that if I was the Spurs. Make that 2025 pick as good as they can and use it to draft a good young player, or make it available for a talent that is superior to Fox.
Spurs have the picks to pry a damn good player from some team (Lauri and Wemby in the froncourt???)
This trade is tough to process, I already commented once haha. Getting a better 3point shooter is def a big positive for me. Our bench is still weak though, need more size, shooting and D on wing. It’s tough because Fox is just entering his prime but you get the feeling the marriage wasn’t going to last anyways so I think it had to be done and is part of reason return is unspectacular. Trades are tough to win, especially depending on circumstances. Don’t know much about Sidy, I’m sure TKH can enlighten me and I will appreciate it. Hopefully he is something. Monte is on the clock for the rest of this year, if they don’t continue to move up in standings it’s going to be time to move on. You never know with Vivek, he either seems to get rid of people too early or keep them too long. I don’t know, I just follow basketball and the NBA first, being a Kings fan is not even the fun part haha! The Kings have to get lucky enough to be a contender at some point in my lifetime sheesh.
Sidy did not get to play in San Antonio. Enough said.
Looked mediocre in SL
Fox was a blast to watch that 2022 season.
That kyrie vs fox 1 on 1 matchup.
That clippers game where he and malik were hitting big shot after big shot.
Those game winners. Man, 2022 was a great year to be a kings fan.
And now that he’s gone, Im actually going to miss him. He lost that fire this season, that underdog mentality. He wasnt playing downhill and his jumpers and midrange game was nowhere to be seen. All I saw this year was a guy settling for 3’s and not giving a rats ass if he was 1-7 or 1-5 from distance. He lost that accountability he held as a leader when Mike Brown was fired, and when his contract situation came up, he chose to question the Kings direction. He was very, very unprofessional.
With that being said, Lebron has no Robin right now until Luka gets healthy so now is the time to move up the standings.
According to NBA.com we have the easiest sched this coming February so lace em up Kings and lets make this February count!
Ps: Time to get that Fox Jersey. ???? it’ll be on sale now.
That clippers game is an all time nba game in history, in my opinion.
The Lakers game where he singlehandedly got us to ot giving 110% on his injured ankle was amazing.
Will miss Fox and wish him well. No jersey burning I’ll still wear my 5s
100% will still wear my two Fox jerseys with pride and wish him hella success with the Spurs. Maybe we’ll meet in the playoffs/in again. Will not boo. Top 5 King. He’s also a young father who is feeling he is doing the best for his career and family. I’ve been there and can’t fault him. Not sure about that Rich Paul guy though.
P.S. Agree about the Clippers 2OT game. All-timer.
I know agents are doing their job but feel like this was a forced narrative… but I think that they brought in a longer more defensive 3/4 he may not have pushed those buttons. I do believe that Monti and Vivek share some blame.
Absolutely. Demar is awesome but not the move Fox needed or probably wanted. The Mike Brown saga was weird and he was clearly holding Fox publicly accountable despite not playing lineups that made sense. FO not able to land Collins per rumor mill and running it back pretty much for two+ seasons. Put it all together with a publicly aggressive agent. Lots of partial blame to spread around. It doesn’t really all land on anyone IMO. I like Fox. I won’t miss his cool periods in between getting mad and going full super saiyan. Bad threes. No assists. Not getting calls until he finally gets mad and goes off in the 4th. It’s fun to watch but I don’t know I would supermax that coupled with fairly meh attitude toward vocal leadership.
The Bulls game winner he hit was one of my favorite moments of that season. I remember the feeling of dread I felt when DeRozan got fouled and made a 3 pointer, but when Fox hit that three with 0.7 seconds left, I screamed, jumped up, and stomped my feet so hard that the tenant one floor below me was probably mad.
Bitersweet.
Since just before he was drafted, I have loved Fox. His energy, speed, enthusiasm, desire to be in Sacramento… he single handedly forced good vibes back into the franchise.
His highlights will forever be burned into my brain – from the game winning dunk putback in Miami, through to the 60 point game… with many others between. In the post Webber era, he is by far my favourite King.*
I also watched the last few games. The effort is just not there any more. I wouldn’t single Fox out here, but he by no means has clean hands. From the last game I thought DeRozan was the player that seemed to drain the life out of the team. The ball just stopped with him, as did the energy. At that point I was ready to break up this squad.
I will miss him. I will miss the Kentucky Connection, The Fox and the Ox – all of it. I am NOT excited for 2020 Bulls 2.0 we appear to have now. It seems as a team we have reverted to type.
So – my thanks to the Fantastic Mr. Fox. It was a great run there for those (checks notes) 1.5 seasons or so. Good luck with San Antonio – a team I respect.
*My completely subjective list of top 10 Post-Webber era Kings:
Kevin martin
Probably at 11 for me. The game winner in the playoffs is enough to get him in there, but the other guys had more of an impact on my fandom.
Get Buddy outta there!
Everybody loves Dante. Especially his DiLaVine Comedy and depiction of Basketball Hell and Purgatory.
Don’t love the trade, but likely the best we could do after the box ownership, fox and his agent put us in. Hopeful the picks, cap room and trade exceptions allow us to make a couple more moves to improve/balance the roster. Appreciate the handful of commenters on here for balancing the perspective on the trade. Also agree with and chuckle at the occasional “I have no idea” comment.
I wonder if we can flip the firsts for fox to Utah for Collins? That means we would get lavine and Collins for Fox and Huerter and gained some seconds..not the haul. Would want but also not a bad haul. We would be better and longer
Having some time to reflect, there are plenty of PGs in the Western Conference alone, that i would prefer over Fox. Luka or Fox? Luka. Kyrie or Fox? Kyrie. Shai or Fox? Shai. Ja or Fox? Ja. That’s four in WC without bringing up Eastern Conference and leaving out Ant Man because Conley technically plays PG. Such as, Brunson, Maxey, LaMelo, Trae, (cough) Haliburton, Cade. That’s 10 without mentioning some like Dame or Curry. If they are couple years younger it’s easily them over Fox. Prime Dame still took a putrid Blazers team to WCF. Fox got us to a game 7 in round 1, once. Considering Fox is maybe not even a top 10 PG in the league, partly because it is the leagues deepest position currently, the trade isn’t that bad. It’s what they do next that will determine everything. I would of preferred more draft capital over a lateral move for a player that’s a couple years older, but oh well. More trades need to happen to build an actual competent roster. Otherwise there is no reason to hang on to players like Domas and Monk either. How about some wings and/or bigs that have some size and can play defense? Please..
I like LaVine when healthy. However, he’s 30 with an extensive injury. I don’t think this will end well.
Big picture, this move clearly signals ownership is content with, at best, a team that wins a playoff series. I know that’s fine with some fans. But for me, someone who played sports as a kid, I hate setting the bar that low. The better approach, as with life, is to set the bar high. If you don’t reach that bar, you’re still more likely to achieve a higher level of success than if you set low goals.
Meant to say extensive injury history.
Cannot put lipstick on this pig of a deal.
SAS got an elite PG and did not give up any core players. ANY. and did not give up any of the most coveted draft picks.
Chicago- got rid of one of the hardest contracts to trade for a chucker with no conscience. and got back their first-round pick that SAS owned.
The Kings got rid of Huerter, lost a topflight PG, got a chucker with no consciousness and low-level future picks. They call it 3 first round picks but that is deceptive. That’s lipstick on a pig.
I moved from hopeful for the season to no expectations with the fall way below .500, was buoyed by the uptick with DC, now deflated by the recent loses and thoroughly disgusted by trading- giving away the best player.
The team with the best player should have the leverage but no. Fox was a once in 10-15 year hit in the draft. Can’t get that back.
LaVine has a lower usage than Fox, shoots less than him, and makes a better percentage of his shots, especially from three…but you consider Zach the “chucker win no consciousness?” That just doesn’t jive, Murray.
I think the issue is that we’ve seen Lavine and Derozan before and it led to absolutely nothing good. The defense will be horrific. I think they absolutely need to trade Derozan as soon as possible. Rolling out a Lavine/Derozan duo is just an uninteresting non-starter to me.
And I’d be fine with that. DDR and one of those unprotected 1st for John Collins might peak Ainge’s interest.
Slide Collins between Sabonis and Keegan and the Kings just got a lot bigger and better defensively. Not to mention why better at spreading the floor.
I really think Collins is the right player for this team as constructed with or without DDR
We have also seen what a team built around Fox has done. One playoff appearance in 8 years. Also, that was Fox’s best statistical season, and he has been trending downward, from an efficiency standpoint, since then.
I am not say that a Lavine/DeMar combination will be amazing or anything, just that this team with Fox wasn’t trending in the right direction.
Would Valanciunas be a reasonable trade target this week?
I would personally prefer it if we got a proper point guard first, but a backup big like JV MUST be a target too.
Monk seems to be doing well in that role. For depth, in addition to Keon, Carter, Colby, and the G League PG’s, Cidy Sissoko can handle and pass.
Welp, Just woke up to this news. Wow.
One one hand, I want to be upset about it and cry foul because Fox was about the only thing on this team that I found exciting in the last 7-8 years or so. Sabonis is awesome too, but Fox reignited my fandom for this team when he came here.
One the other hand, we’re a play in team at best and even with Fox I was finding it hard to be super interested. I’ve been watching us lose for 20+ years (been a fan since ’92) and I’m just generally numb to all things Kangz and have been for a decade with our single playoff appearance season being about the only exception. So what I’m saying is… the whole thing is “meh.”
Either it moves the needle and helps us be more relevant (I have my doubts) or it doesn’t and then it’s just more of the same – a rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic kind of thing.
I’ll say this though… I still go to the occasional game, and it’s mostly (entirely) because of Fox and Sabonis. Like, if Fox is injured and not playing – I’m not going.
I don’t see me buying tickets to go watch ZL. That’s just me, and it might be an ignorant stance to take. Time will tell. In the end, they had to do SOMETHING though, as lying to ourselves that this lineup could be more than an 8th seed was just not going to work out, so while I think it sucks – I also am very ok with it at the same time. (Meaning, I’m still numb)
“Never expected it to end this way” and “preferred destination in mind” don’t quite align.
Next up: Get back to me when we trade our 1st for Kuzma!
No thanks
(That’s the joke! /smiley face)
Be careful jokes sometimes become reality… ????
Something that may have been lost in all the dust, and I don’t think it’s been discussed here yet, is the Kings dropped to 5th lowest payroll in the league with this trade. My first thought was, “poverty franchise is gonna poverty,” but then something hit me.
The Kings are now over $12M below the tax line and $16M below the first apron, of which they are hard capped. The Kings also STILL HAVE THEIR $12M MLE OF WHICH THEY CAN TRADE INTO. The Kings can absorb a player into that MLE.
Should there be a team out there that is capped out or over an apron, the Kings new space could be very appealing. It could also be of use in the inevitable Jimmy Butler trade as an ancillary team.
Do I think Monte knew he was creating the kind of cap space. I do. Do I think that the Kings are going use it….? Let’s hope.
Interesting and agreed. Hopefully we ain’t done.
The cap space and trade exceptions have been discussed. Not the MLE, however.
Valnciunas has a contact that would fit the cap space.
Val is going to cost the Kings a pick as the Wiz have no financial need to move him. I’d target apron teams.
Bucks are over the apron and Bobby Portis fits perfectly into that MLE…just saying.
That would make Jerry very happy.
Yeah, Portis is a possibility.
From what I’m reading about Val, most are saying his value is second rounders.
Love this idea
I mean, they have options to do things, but will they actually do anything? I will not be surprised at all if they do nothing and they muddle along for the rest of the year and make the play-in but lose their pick. That’s where we’re headed right now. My only hope unless they make more moves is that they just go in the tank and keep their lottery pick.
The Kings will be fine on offense. Maybe. Monk now becomes the man. He has put good numbers. But not sure if that’s a by product of something else.Teams always had to account for Fox. Regardless.
You have 4 guys now that always need the ball to be effective. This will be a problem unless one of them is moved. You will see. Monk is not the playmaker Fox was. That will be a challenge immediately.
If Monk was that great? Not so sure. We will find out.
This team gets even worse defensively. Fox was playing high level d this year. Not sure Lavine is even average on Defense.
The team is hoping for a Johnson or Collins. Those players will probably end up with a real contender. Especially Johnson who has already been leaked to OKC and the Clippers. Both teams hands down with more assets and a better shot at real contention.
The Jazz and Nets will have no use at all for DDr. A 35 yr old scorer. Why would either team take his deal. There is a reason then kings were able to sign him in the first place. His age and he mucks the offense.
Collins the same. The Kings picks are not that desirable and Kings have no assets now outside of Len.’Ainge wont pull the trigger on that. Utah will be able to get more.
I’d wonder if Utah or the Nets would take DDR’s deal if it came attached some some of the newly acquired picks? We know that’s what those two teams currently desire most.
Lavine has to be accounted for by opponents as well. It’s not like they are going to leave a 44% 3pt shooter open. Also, Lavine is a more efficient scorer than Fox. He actually provides another element to the starting group that they were missing, 3pt shooting/making. Lavine is shooting 12% better than Fox on more volume.
As for the 4 guys that always need the ball to be effective, that was the same case with Fox. Fox was not that effective as on off-ball player.
Defensively, Lavine is actually about 6% better at Opponent 3pt FG%. The other numbers favor Fox, but it’s not like Fox has a huge edge there statistically.
If the Kings add another high percentage shooter at the 3/4/5, then the spacing would be back where it needed to be for a team centered around Domas, and this season with DeMar.
The Kings can simply absorb Bobby Portis in to the MLE that they haven’t used this season. Bucks might want Lyles expiring back and 2nd round picks. They are over the 2nd apron and could use the cap relief to dip under the 2nd apron so they can aggregate players in a trade this season.
There is a way to add Jonas V., much in the same way. Although not a floor spacer, he definitely would help those non-Domas minutes that the Kings struggle so mightily each game.
They have more options now to improve the roster than they did before the Fox trade. Huerter and Lyles + the limited draft capital wasn’t enticing the Jazz, Nets, etc. They have more to play with. The question is, will the FO make any additional moves, or will they sit on the roster constructing options that they have created?
This would be a nice move. In no way a game changer, but a definite improvement
It sure would help the depth in the frontcourt. Keegan can play more SF with Portis and Lyles at the 4/5.
Fox isn’t worth a max contract
The Spurs and pretty much every other team that tried to trade for him might differ.
I’m sure they would
Whenever it’s been reported that the Kings are being “aggressive” over the last two years coming up on the the trade deadline, nothing goes through. I think they’ve set themselves up for another move, but I’m very very skeptical. That being said, it is renewal time for season ticket holders so along with all of the other pressure, that has to sit pretty heavy with the front office/ownership right now. Whether they make a good move or just blow it all for a play in team this year is yet to be determined.
Also just to go on a tangeant, as a STH, it always annoys me that they renewal period is the middle of the season and they tie that to post season playoff access. Playoff tickets should be available to all season ticket holders for the year the paid for.
i agree. knowing this front office, i highly doubt anything else occurs this season
How would people here feel about trading for Okongwu? Good defender(on a team full of crap defenders)who could maybe play the four next to Sabonis and take on the tough assignments. He also fits into the 16 million dollar trade exception that was just created in the fox trade.
This is off topic, but I do appreciate the well thought out posts on this site. Listening to the talk shows this morning, the opinions of the callers are so lame. I literally feel like I’m getting dumber just by listening to it.
I will say, putting aside everything else negative about all of this and the cloud of Vivek/bad decision making the last two seasons, a healthy Lavine is the best offensive fit to Domas’ game since he became starter in the NBA. He’s never had an elite shooter/cutter like Lavine before. That probably doesn’t matter if they roll post deadline with the worst bench in the league, but it is something to be intrigued by.
Badge Legend