Welcome back to the mailbag! A bunch of great questions were submitted, so let’s dive right in, shall we?!
From Marty:
My question for anyone: Are you genuinely enjoying hate-watching yet? It took me one full season to really enjoy it, and now I do.
Tim: I’ve been half-hate-watching for quite a while now, but this season I’ve turned up the intensity quite a bit, and frankly, the enjoyment has increased as well. My first true example of hate-watching was against the Denver Nuggets. I had just written the “haters gonna hate” article surrounding Doug’s asinine comments, and I really, really needed them to lose to make my work make sense. I was frequently texting the writing thread and begging the Kings to lose.
More enjoyable, though, was the Hawks game. I was worried about a win for about a quarter-and-a-half, and then when the deficit got to 10 and then 20 and then 30, I cackled incessantly. Vivek and Scott did nothing but screw around all summer, and now we get the joy of watching them find out.
Let’s go for 3-78, y’al!
Will: I’m not sure I’d categorize what I’m doing as ‘hate-watching’. Yes, I hate the roster construction, and I certainly hate that the the powers that be have leveraged the reputation of another hero from days gone by in the hopes of buying time till they can figure out a path forward, and I hate 95% of the decisions that Vivek has had input on since his second season as governor onward, but I really don’t have it in me to find joy in watching the Kings in that capacity. I pity a lot of these players – LaVine was traded here with no real choice in the matter. Plenty of the guys were drafted (or signed UDFA deals) here. DeRozan, despite a frustrating style of play, probably doesn’t deserve a swan song such as this. Even Sabonis, who I don’t expect to be on the team this time next year, was traded here and made hay while the sun shone for a couple seasons before this Sacramento stench truly got to him. I won’t deny that I’m rooting for losses, and not even solely for the tankiness of it all. I admit, I want Vivek embarrassed. I want him ashamed, if one can feel such a thing at his tax bracket. His choices, his leadership style, his ego led the Kings down this road and unless he plans on cashing out, the only thing that will truly change the direction of his franchise going forward is a change in himself, brought about by a season or two of ego pulverizing, atrocious, NBA 3.0 basketball.
From Upgraded to Questionable:
Can anyone give me a morsel of hope? It is with regrettable mounting apathy that I have already answered this question for myself – which is back to: Same owner, same problems. I left the Kings a few years ago with this realization. But I came back because of TKH. I am ready to skedaddle and it will be harder to return. Until the NBA steps in…
Tim: I’m going to be very real with you on two fronts. First, the NBA isn’t ever going to step in, assuming there are no behavioral infractions. The NBA doesn’t care if the Kings suck. In fact, having a few sucky teams is great for the rest of the league. More points, more threes, more fun. The Kings are Vivek’s until he decides otherwise.
On the hope front, I have almost none. The Kings have a bunch of overpaid vets who other teams might like but certainly won’t pay top dollar for, and the few young dudes on the team have no hope of putting a franchise on their shoulders, and that includes the currently injured Keegan Murray. There is no blue chip first-year contract on the team, nor will the Kings get one through a trade of any of their assets.
The one teeny, tiny hope is the draft. If the Kings continue on this trajectory, they’ll likely be in the bottom-5 of teams in the lottery. A few lotto balls and Scott Perry making a rational, smart decision would hand Sacramento a potential, young star.
If that doesn’t happen, well, there’s always next decade.
Will: Obviously hope is a fickle and deceptive phrase to pass around lightly in Sacramento. We had NBA 3.0 hopes, Mike Malone hopes, George Karl hopes, Fox and (briefly Luka Doncic) then Marvin Bagley III hopes, Beam Team hopes and now, well, now were back in the same place reality met all those other hopes – somewhere between 20-30ish wins, hoping young middling talent actually breaks out of, or lives up to, their expectations and praying for ping pong balls to do us a solid. And, on that last point: don’t get me wrong, Scott Perry isn’t Vlade Divac. He might be a guy worth trusting in the draft room in the case of a high lotto pick coming Sacramento’s way. Nique Clifford and Maxim Reynaud have looked decent in their early returns, a fact of which, isn’t exactly, hopeful, but it isn’t NOT hopeful either.
If we’re huffing a little hope-ium today, I think it’ll lie in the recent valuation of the team. A little over 12 years ago, Vivek bought a controlling percentage of this franchise at a $535 million valuation. That same team is now, according to the latest reports worth around $5 billion and don’t look too hard at the AI bubble that’s about to burst but boy, howdy, there’s no time like the present for a rich guy known to be less than totally liquid to cash out.
Vivek is a loser. I don’t say that to be unnecessarily cruel, that’s just the consensus in regards to his reputation on the basketball side of things around the league. His brand of governorship is toxic, he’s been largely mocked in his decade plus tenure and his premature destruction of the Beam Team pretty much sealed what the taste makers think of him and his Kings forever more. He can rock a “They Aren’t Like Us” shirt, he can sit next to whatever D-List celebrity his daughter thinks is cool, but at the end of the day, his brand is synonymous with losing, irrationality and being cheap as shit around the periphery. Even pulling back from the basketball side: the arena itself is nice, but DOCO… DOCO and surrounding areas… they… they kinda suck. Nothing there to keep people after games, no real shopping to speak of in the non-game nights, tenants coming and going constantly – sure, we can blame SOME of that on COVID and evolving shopping tastes in America but also, they stuff Vivek owns and operates really hasn’t panned out there either.
All that to say: He might be close to throwing in the towel. He yearns to be liked, to be cool. He’s desperate for it and each silly thing he does to get closer to that goal drags him further away. It takes a single moment of clarity: whether that be a 17 win season, or Doug Christie abandoning his dreams and meager salary, or a widespread fan protest, and Vivek might just say “Alright, I’m done. Time to collect a fresh billion and a half dollars and move on to baseball, or WeWorks 3.0 etc.” Am I saying go out a rent some space on a billboard to throw up a vague protest statement? No. Am I saying it’s likely he gives up that easily? No. But there are now billions of reasons for him to take his Malcolm Gladwell-glazed, widely disgraced brand of management and leadership and go home. All he needs is a little convincing.
From Oshima9:
When will Doug be fired? Before or after Christmas?
Tim: I actually disagree with many of my TKH colleagues on this one, who tend to believe that Doug is pretty safe for at least the next few months, and probably the year. I think Doug will be fired between Christmas and the trade deadline, with the potential of a much-sooner firing occurring if he keeps ranting and the Kings keep falling asleep on the court. And sadly, Doug’s exit won’t be much of a loss long-term.
Will: I don’t think there’s any reason to fire Doug, and honestly, I think it’s just as likely he quits as it is he gets full on fired. Sure the Kings are bad, bad. Sure he’s looked out of his depths with this current roster but 1) he’s a perfect tank commander if the Kings decide they’re going for youth and 2) No coach currently on that bench (or on God’s green Earth) is changing this roster’s energy for more than a week. Sure Doug rode the dead coach bounce to an over .500 record for the remainder of the season, but to expect Mike Woodson or Bobby Jackson to do the same if Doug is gone… feels too much of a Vivek caricature to be true. He hasn’t had 20 games to implement what he’s trying to do and not a single one with his most versatile defender. They’ll give him this season, if he wants it. Not calling Doug a quitter or underestimating his passion for this city – more saying this Kings squad could cause the most patient man to blow up in anger and, Doug doesn’t exactly sound that patient at this point.
From outrider:
Assuming we actually embrace a rebuild, is it even possible for us to move 90 million of LaVine/Sabonis? Who would want those guys at their costs without us having to include picks to do it?
Tim: Sabonis is absolutely moveable, and after this question was submitted, Sam Amick reported that a few teams have certainly shown interest in his services. Listen, there was a reason why we were all (mostly) excited about Sabonis, even if we were all upset about the trade value that exited when he joined the team. Sabonis is a very, very, very good NBA center who is being criminally misused by Doug Christie. Sure, he’s not a good defender, and you need a unique set of skills around him, but that doesn’t make Sabonis a negative asset, even with his contract. Teams like the Warriors, Celtics, Magic, Lakers, and Suns could all use his skillset.
Is Sabonis going to get you multiple first round picks and a good, young player? Absolutely not. He could fetch a package like Jonathan Kuminga and TJD or perhaps Anfernee Simons and a pick or something along those lines.
Zach LaVine ain’t going anywhere.
Will: I’ll agree with Tim here and say Sabonis is moveable. Does that mean you like the return? Eh, probably not. But, there’s enough teams that would take him and being free from that contract offers enough opportunities that, hey, for our purposes it might be better split into multiple players with shorter deals, or old expensive farts without much time left in their careers. I’ll say it again but if we’re moving oldies for youth: taking on the last years of Embiid for a Jared McCain and pieces could be worth it. Prior to his injury he was a Rookie of the Year front runner, he’s just stuck behind a glut of guard talent that he hasn’t been able to show much now that he’s been healthy for a couple of games. Sabonis raises the Sixers floor, even if it lowers their potential ceiling and having a healthy Sabonis on a team of those guards could give the Sixers real lasting power in the Eastern Conference playoffs.
As for LaVine, no one SHOULD want LaVine with his current contract. But the New Orleans Pelicans exist, and they are run by Joe Dumars and that alone gives hope.
From Bryant_Gonzaga Fan:
Can I have your power rankings of Kings you’d like to see traded, preferably in the format of a Greg fanfiction?
Tim: The fanfiction will have to wait til the next Chainmail round, but I’ll happily provide a power ranking of Kings I want gone:
Overjoyed: Zach LaVine, Dennis Schroder, Devin Carter (I won’t apologize)
Happy: DeMar DeRozan, Malik Monk
Understanding: Domantas Sabonis, Russell Westbrook
Will: Please, don’t ask for FanFiction. I beg you.
Glad or Feeling Good About Moving On From: DeRozan, Sabonis, Monk, LaVine, Schroder
Confused or Angry If Moved: Ellis, Murray, Clifford
No Emotion: literally everyone else
(This is no offense to everyone in that first group. They get to move on to more functional organizations and the Kings draw closer to a youth movement.)
Now I have an image of a giraffe eating yogurt pie and cackling incessantly, while hate watching the Kings. That’s almost as good as wishing for Kelsey Grammer puking court side while sitting next to Vivek.
I’d help pay for someone to be the next puke guy. Can we get a GoFundMe going?
If everyone chips in and gets me courtside, I will drink until I puke while wearing a sell the team shirt under my jersey that ill take off and try to mop up said puke.
Let me know, my schedule is open
Great stuff as usual!
But now I fear a Domas for Embiid trade.
Maybe we can do Domas, LaVine & Schroder for Embiid & George and embrace the oft-injured tank
I want to see what Keegan, Nique and Keon look like on the perimeter, defensively, together. If they work well, it gives a better idea if they can play together or not. If they work together well, then it can give some data on what types of players would complement them. I don’t see those players being franchise players, but knowing what they can do could determine the next additions to the roster.
Will those three play much together this season? Probably not. I don’t expect this franchise to have the foresight/future thinking on how to build an effective roster for winning.
IMO, putting Keegan, Nique, and Keon out there with Sabonis is the closest thing to the Beam year with Hiuerter, Keegan and Barnes, only they’d be better defensively. Three low usage dudes who can knock down open jumpers and not be black holes on the offensive end. Now if only they had a clutch scoring PG who can break down the defense to go along with them…sort of like Fox.
Shit…I can squint and see how Ja might work with those 4. I should stop squinting.
I see Mikel Brown Jr. being a guy that would fit with that roster. He has his warts, mainly defensively, but the team needs to see what pieces they currently have that they want to move forward with and how to build with them.
They need so much, it’s crazy how awful they have become, again, since the 22-23 season.
Hard to argue the bleakness of it all when you turn on the TV and watch these guys’ effort night in and night out. DeMar and Domas giving shit effort and giving up in game is bad but LaVine allegedly quit and went to the locker room instead of playing the 4th over his minutes and that’s absolute trash. I don’t know what kind of market there is for a player who already has a rep of losing focus in games who decides he doesn’t want to play because of his minutes. But if there is one you whoever it is can fkn have him.
Weird that the problem is Vivek and Scooter P, in their infinite wisdom of wanting volunteers instead of hostages, collected exactly what they didn’t want with their high profile, high value vets. How they mis-evaluate so badly I’ll never know but Zach has history with this kind of shit so shame on Scooter P. He’s crafted an absolutely stellar squad of individuals who refuse to work as a team, where the most fun guy to watch play is Drewbanks off the bench, where vets come to make a quick bag before whining their way out and developing incoming talent is an inside joke of diminishing returns or assets flourishing elsewhere.
I feel bad for Doug Christie that his shot at coaching is likely as a janitor who’s got almost no shot at being retained for just trying to clean up the shit and never being given a real shot to succeed with a roster that isn’t completely crap-heavy at the top.
In Perry’s defense, he didn’t acquire Zach, DeMar, or Domas. He did bring in Dennis, who looks like a hostage, and Russ gives effort but doesn’t seem to contribute to winning basketball.
As for the LaVine situation, I didn’t see anywhere else (except for some random X or Face Book poster) that he stormed to the locker room and didn’t return against the Spurs. I turned the game off early and didn’t see the ending.
The team is full of hostages, like you noted. The quicker they can be moved on from, the better.
How do we know Perry is a NBA league average GM, apart from posting Dale Carnegie quotes on social media and signing a back up point guard to a 45 million dollar contract
Why does local media tip toe around this teams poor performance they act like detectives in a network cop drama looking for clues at why this team is so awful
Did I say he was a league average GM?
Apparently he went back to the locker room to get treatment and came back to the bench.
Poor Doug. He didn’t sign up for this dysfunction.
Oh wait. Yes, he did. And he was already part of it before, so knew what he signed up for.
Doug deserves better in the same manner that we all deserve better. To your point, Doug is the only one among us that is getting paid.
Doug is definitely at the table and should be well aware of what kind of shit show he
signed upis being paid for. If any of this season is a surprise to Doug then I’ve got some beach front property in Arizona to sell to Doug.I know I somewhat restated what Rik said above but the theatrics from Doug is eye roll inducing.
Much like walton when he was fired, If Doug were fired today it would be a long time before, if ever, that Doug would end up coaching for another NBA team.
He is a company shill and a fig leaf for Vivek. He deserves to do better.
Would any of the players on this Roster actually play or make the Thunder Roster?
Factoring talent and contract? Maaaaaaaybe Ellis and Clifford at the bottom of the roster, but that’s about it. I would have included Keegan prior to the new contract – not that the contract is outrageous, but it definitely does not fit OKC’s payroll / future obligations.
Not factoring in contracts, but I would think Sabonis could fill in for the Hartenstein role and start next to Chet. Both set great screens, rebound, and play physical below the rim defense. I kind of see Hartenstein as a poor man’s Sabonis, as Sabonis is a poor man’s Jokic.
Agreed, but Sabonis is making $14m / $17m more than Hartenstein over the next two years. The Thunder need the cap space to extend some of those youngsters, and I’m not sure that Sabonis would be worth the difference to them. On talent alone? Absolutely. But when you factor in the contract? I tend to think not.
Totally agree. It’s the contract that is the issue. I’m interested to see what OKC does with Hartenstein’s TO next season. He’s a significant contributor to their team, but at his cost, I have to think they turn down his deal.
They are just blessed with too many worthy of large contracts. With three $40M+ deals kicking in next season, it will be interesting to see what they do. Does OKC go into the tax and aprons to build a dynasty or does the small market budget rear it’s head?
HB 7 straight in the clutch to seal it vs Memphis
On Vivek selling the team: are you sure you want to wish for that?
Vivek, like any capitalist, would sell to the highest bidder. How likely is it that the highest bidder would keep the team in Sacramento?
Say “hi” to the Las Vegas Kings.
Briefly: we’re screwed.
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