It would not surprise me to see Buddy Hield ask out of Sacramento this offseason. He has often expressed his unhappiness with his role and has a positional overlap with restricted free agent Bogdan Bogdanovic.
Tim Maxwell joined us to discuss how much we think Hield’s value sank after his poor year, what Sacramento should look for in return, and also list eight potential deals.
Five of the mentioned deals are from Rich’s latest piece for the Sac Bee that breaks down the situation amazingly.
If Hield were to ask out, which trade is your favorite of those mentioned? Also, if you have any others we would love to hear them.
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Here’s the issue with Buddy Hield in regards to how he fits with this team…
He thinks he’s a different player than he is. Vlade was right when he said he has to look in the mirror. He is an ELITE 3-point shooter. There is no denying it. But he thinks he is also a shot creator and playmaker on top of that, which he is not. He needs to live at the 3-point line and embrace being a catch and shoot guy.
He wants to be the main focal point of the offense when he is in. He’s just not that type of player. I love his mentality sometimes, but it gets him into trouble.
I would love a clean trade for a pick with him. The Atlanta deal has been thrown around, Hield for 6. That’s a no brainer. I could see NY being interested as well for the 8th pick. If those types of deals are possible, then we go for them.
Im not a fan of using him in a salary dump, but I can see us using him in a deal with a team like Philly, if we get draft assets back.
But is it Buddy or is it Walton? He was a different player under Joerger.
The unfortunate part is that Walton is likely to be back next season, which means selling Hield low (either now or later).
Im not sure. I do know that Hield didn’t really like Joerger, I bet he misses him now.
Was it the contract?
My guess is that Joerger was able to get Buddy to play within the system, and Buddy didn’t like for some reason, which again proves my main point.
There’s a few differences between this season and last that could’ve partially contributed to the year over year downturn. I’m not a big believer in contract year stat inflation, but I think in Buddy’s case I could see a scenario in which his agent made it clear to Buddy to keep his mouth shut, and just play the role he was asked to play.
This season he’s gotten paid like a high-end starter, but not treated like one from a minutes perspective. The cognitive dissonance would probably frustrate a lot of people.
On the flip side, I kinda disagree with the conventional wisdom that Luke unwittingly used Buddy incorrectly. I think in a way, the coach and front office said okay now that you’ve been paid we need you to provide more than just off-ball scoring. He does show flashes of being a pesky defender and willing passer, but he’s just a bit of an airhead when he’s not hunting for his own shot.
Also, Vlade didn’t do Walton any favors. You can’t have a roster full of players who need others to create for them. It just doesn’t work that way. You end up in a situation in which some players are asked to do more than they are capable of out of necessity.
In conclusion, did they use him wrong? Yes. But I think it’s more complicated than simply not knowing how to use him correctly. Just look at his stats once they moved him to the bench. He played his best basketball of the season, and it wasn’t because he had the ball in his hands less.
I think Walton pro-actively tried to use Buddy as a ball-handler. I think he even said as much. “We need our players to do more than just shoot” or something to that effect.
I think it’s part of the whole Kangz, trying to outsmart everybody, think two steps ahead, prove everyone else wrong, type of nonsense.
Joerger used Buddy correctly. The same way Spoelstra uses Robinson, Kerr uses Klay, and Brown used Reddick.
Walton is just trying to be fresh and innovative and buck convention, and he sucks at it.
I’d be open to trading Buddy for the #6 or #8 because I like Halliburton and I like the financial flexibility going forward. But Walton has to go. Like yesterday.
Not to defend Walton, but I think the challenge is/was that it’s easy to use Robinson they way Spoelstra does when you have Butler and Adebayo. It’s easy to use Klay that way when you have Steph, Dray, and Durant. It’s easy to use Redick that way when you have Simmons, Embiid, Butler, & to a much lesser degree, Harris. In short, is easy when you have high level playmakers. Without them, yeah, you can have Buddy play that role, and his individual numbers will probably look a little better. Fewer TOs (and assists). Higher percentages (though probably a little less volume). But the team probably won’t be any better for it.
An excellent point. And obviously Walton is just one of the symptoms of this dysfunctional organization. Our ceiling is limited because of a lack of talent, and players who don’t really complement each other all that well.
Part of the reason I think we need to tear this whole thing down and start over. Beginning with Walton.
But we need that #1 star/playmaker on this team. Our only change to get that could be the 2021 or 2022 draft. So trading what we have for high-end picks seems to be the only solution to make this team a legitimate contender sometime this decade.
The 5-out sets without any playmakers on the floor didn’t make things look better. Last season was a perfect storm of suckitude regarding FO’s team building and coachings ineptitude.
Open to the 6th pick only if Huerter is included. We’ll sweeten the deal with maybe Justin James. Draft Deni. No pressure on him. Talk Bogi into being Manu 2.0. Bring Deni in with Bogi and Bjelly (resign Bejelly to a team friendly contract). A few other small moves. I think we have to get Markkanen. That means Bagley is gone.
AND, that’s not a bad thing! We have a few options. The GM has to see that we are not that far off with a few needed changes.
Fox
Huerter
Barnes (for now)
Markkanen
Holmes (for now).
That’s not a bad starting lineup.
Does Justin James sweeten a deal?
Potentially…yes. I’m definitely open to the best package for that 6th pick. I think Huerter fits us well. That’s our Duncan Robinson with a little more explosiveness.
Oh, I definitely like Huerter. I just don’t think James has any trade value.
GM has to figure that one out my friend. Maybe throw in Jabari Parker? He was playing well there before getting hurt and traded to us. I almost want to see what Jabaruli can do for us off the bench next year. Point is, someone has to go with Buddy to sweeten the deal. We are asking for Huerter and that 6th pick.
Yeah I’m definitely open to trading Buddy for a younger, cheaper, possibly better option AND having them throw in the 6th pick.
Very good points. I have another point to add. They could both be gone with the right GM. AND, I am totally fine with that.
It’s Buddy. Joerger had them running to cover up their severe limitations on initiating halfcourt offense. Dude is talented but limited.
I agree with your assessment of Buddy. I also agree with Rob that we don’t know 100% what Buddy’s thoughts are on starting and being the player he was 2019. IMO any moving of assets (Buddy is an asset) should wait till near the trade deadline 20/21. This draft is a loser, and we are going to suck anyway. Run 1/2 a season with Vlade’s team, feature your trade assets and sell high at the deadline. All that said Kangz will likely be Kangz.
The draft is a crapshoot. Always has been. We have no idea if this draft is a looser.
And I think we absolutely know what Buddy’s thoughts are on not starting. He makes it know all the time. He hates coming off the bench. And because it looks like Walton will be back, Buddy will definitely come off the bench if we keep Bogi (Which we absolutely should do). His value will go down
I posted yesterday that I don’t think ATL has any need to tie up cap space on an older Buddy when they already have players on the cheap that match his skills. Kevin Huerter is 21, does almost everything Buddy does, and is on his rookie deal. They also have Reddish, Hunter and Bembrey on the wings.
I just don’t think Buddy fits their timeline. Now, if they really wanted Buddy for the #6, I’d pull that trigger immediately and hope to land Haliburton.
I agree that Buddy is a shooting specialist and that he is not a ball handler. However I disagree when you say he is not a shot creator. If he gets the ball without using his dribble and is being guarded by one guy and he has space to work with, he can create his own shot. He can pull up in the midrange and make that shot at a decent clip and he can drive to the basket with good success also. Part of the problem I think was that Walton tried to play him like Steph Curry.
Horford, Thybulle and 21 for Buddy and Jabari….
Ima just leave this here…
Why?
Are we sure Thybulle is off the table?
Buddy/Barnes for Thybulle/Harris works in the trade machine, though when Buddy’s extension hits, it may not.
Or (and I’m prepared for TKH to riot against this one): Buddy/Barnes/Parker for Harris/Horford/Thybulle and a 1st. We’d be taking Philly’s money issues as our own, and it’s a hell of a price to pay for a young prospect and a pick, but considering the Sacramento tax it may not be so horrible. Those same untradable contracts will suddenly become desirable right around the time Fox is ready to seriously compete and win.
I suggested the exact same thing minus harris and barnes. Still not even sure if the money would add up considering we gotta pay fox, bogi etc.
Can we please not take Harris back? Please? That’s a top 3 terrible contract. Maybe only saved from being the absolute worst by Wall’s injury.
I was perusing the player contract list, and there really aren’t that many large contracts the fall in that grey area of productive players that are just overpaid that would be a great fit in a trade for Buddy.
The one idea I thought might be interesting is Buddy to Memphis for Dieng/Slow Mo and maybe some sort of pick compensation. It’s hard to really know though who would actually get compensated in that scenario. Memphis would be getting the best player obviously, but that’s a ton of cap relief for the Kings.
I think there are a number of those guys. Though I would narrow it to productive but overpaid to a non-insane degree. And of course, guys the opposing team is likely to be interested in moving. For example, I think Draymond certainly falls into that productive-but-overpaid category, but I don’t see the Warriors unloading as a negative asset. As you point out, often the hard part is that bad teams would be more motivated to just wait out a short overpay than pay to unload it. But you never know on that. For example, would Charlotte pay to unload Batum, or would they rather just wait until the deadline to get value for him as an expiring deal? Or even just let him walk because his contract coming off the books is value enough?
Yeah I originally thought Charlotte’s cap situation was a lot worse than it is. Rozier is the only bad contract that extends past next season. If I’m their GM, I think I just sit tight, and not take on any new long-term money.
Yep, but if I’m the Kings GM I definitely call and see.
Worst contracts in the NBA:
1.) Wall
2.) Wiggins
3.) Harris
Any I’m missing?
I don’t want the Kings near any of those.
I mean, I personally think Klay’s is up there as well. But yeah, those are my top 3 certainly. And by a pretty large margin, IMO.
Obligatory “not my money” but I guess I just have a different philosophy when it comes to solid players on negative value contracts, especially for Sacramento.
If we have to pay the Sacramento tax anyway and if we struggle with free agency and if we’re planning to rebuild, and if (and this is the toughest one of them all) we can do so without hitting the tax, it makes sense to grab a contract like this.
It seems to me we can get a lot of value on either end of those contracts. For example, in a Barnes/Buddy for Horford/Thybulle construction, we get a positive asset now (thybulle) and potentially another positive asset at the end of Horford’s contract when all of a sudden the contract switches from being one of the least desirable to one of the most desirable as an expiring. 30 mil a year is a high price to pay for what may amount to Thybulle + a pick (if we’re lucky), but it’s exactly the type of move a rebuilding team needs to make, especially in a city like Sacramento.
I agree with all of that. I’m totally open to Horford. Harris is just too much for too long with too little production. I’m not sure PHI could or would put together a package that would make me consider taking that deal on. But in general, I’m one of the foremost proponents of taking on bad deals for assets.
Philly can’t take on Barnes and Buddy ($47M combined) for just Horford and Thybulle ($30M). Buddy and Horford are pretty close in salary actually. The Kings may have to throw in a minor asset to make that deal, but I’d need at least one lottery projected pick coming back to even consider it.
At the moment, as far a salaries go, I’m pretty sure Hield for Horford works straight up.
I would never want both Harris and Horford’s contracts. They are far worse than Buddy and Barnes.
I would probably prefer Horford over Harris because of his plus playmaking abilities and one less year on his deal. That would signal the end of Bjelica I’d guess. But at least you could play Horford and Bagley at the same time. If you do Horford, a 2021 1st and another minor asset for Buddy and I’m ok with it.
I really don’t get all the Thybulle fascination. What am I missing?
Same. Hes a good defender, but cant shoot at all
I mean, he’s a DPOY level perimeter defender and he hit his threes at a league average clip as a rookie. We can discuss HOW MUCH value he really has, but that’s clearly the foundation of a pretty interesting prospect.
I’d be all over that Myles Turner trade, but not sure why the Pacers would want to do it. For them that would be a lot of money tied up in three guards in Buddy, Brogdon, and Oladipo.
From the Kings perspective I think Turner would be a great piece, especially if Giles and Len are gone. He could be a solid fit next to Bagley, and he does fit the timeline….if there even is one.
I also really like his contract.
Pacers could be a third team with a Philly trade too. Hield to Philly, Turner to Kings, Horford and a pick to Indiana.
I like that! Kings could even throw in some 2nd rounders to sweeten the deal.
Turner would be a better fit in the Kings than Bagley. He can shoot and he is no slouch in defense. A Fox-Bogdanovic-Barnes-Turner-Holmes starting five has all kinds of potential and is sure to be a pest on D.
I don’t see why Bagley wouldn’t be able to play with Turner. Some defensive scheming would need to happen for sure, but on offense it’s definitely doable since Turner is mostly on the perimeter. This would likely push Holmes as the 3rd big.
I agree that the Kings should be looking to make deals to improve the roster, its a tad redundent as they don’t have Front Office as yet
My other wish is not to trade for name players who have been A. overpaid relative to their skill levels and B. are on the downside of their career That rules out Harris and Horford.
unless the Kings are getting other assets in the deal.
I’d be leery of Embid, as he seems reluctant to get in shape and has injury issues. I had to laugh as on the Simmons podcast they spent the first half of the show implying that maybe he is a potential S show, but then saying well maybe they Kings should trade for him, I think the deal was for Buddy and Marvin but to make the deal the Kings would then have to give a multitude of first round picks. To me I might toss in one lottery protected, as the gamble of a now motivated Embid who would get in shape and then wreck havoc on the league might be worth the risk
Yeah, I’m staying away from Embiid. He hasn’t played more than 64 games in any season and I don’t see that improving as he ages.
I sort of see Embiid taking a similar career arc and attitude as DMC. Do not want.
Please everyone, stop trying to help the 76ers by proposing to take on Horford’s contract. Buddy Hield might be an overpay but at least it’s tradeable. Hield will be a good player all 4 years of that contract. Also, if you guys say Hield’s value is in the gutter now, why not wait until midseason when his value returns to normal. The guy puts up points in a hurry.
My issue with keeping him around past the offseason is he is already disgruntled. If the Kings try and wait until the deadline, he might demand a trade which causes even more issues and lowers his value.
Nobody is trying to help the 76ers. People are trying to be opportunistic in collecting the type of assets the Kings will need to take the next step.
Exactly, there is an opportunity to win on a trade with Philly because they may be desperate to rid themselves of a contract. If Buddy is determined to not be part of the long term plan here in Sac and Philly wants him, strike while the iron is hot….but not before you hire a competent GM.
It’s just part of having a plan. What is our long-term vision? What do we need to do to get there? What do we have of value (Be that players, picks, or cap space) that were are willing to part with? Who may be willing to pay the most to get that (due to positional need, competitive context, off-court factors)? Would the value of the return be greater than the value of keeping the player on the roster?
If the Kings take on Horford’s contract we won’t be able to move it, we’ll have to resort to stretching out his contract which will keep him on the books for another decade and we will all be crying.
You don’t have to move it. You play him for a season and a half or two and then move him as a large expiring. No reason to stretch it. It’s only really 2 years long depending on how you play it.
it is 3 more years.
“Only” 14MM (about half) of the 3rd year is guaranteed. That’s why I added the “depending on how you play it.”
It’s a proud Kings tradition to do trades that help the 76ers though.
I wonder if there is a Hield deal to be made with Charlotte. They have Batum’s expiring and aside from the #3 pick, some young players in Miles Bridges and Malik Monk (who could fit as a 1.5 behind Fox and Bogi, reuniting Fox and Monk from their Kentucky days).
Charlotte has Graham and Rozier, so maybe they wouldn’t possess a lot of excitement for Hield. But in this day and age of smaller ball, maybe they would?
Hield, 12, 43 for Batum, 3? Hield for Batum, Bridges or Monk, 32?
Have I mentioned that I know nothing?
I’d probably rather go Hield for Batum, 32, 2021 1st.
Yeah, that would work, even if the pick was top-3 protected.
I actually really like that 32 pick this year. I think there will be some good options there and you avoid the rookie scale.
I like a lot of these trades you guys are talking about. I think Buddy for #6 or #8 is my favorite (although not likely to be accepted).
Can we talk potential Fox trades next? Let’s start with NY…
Oh, I’ve been throwing those around for a while. I think if anybody is going to put a godfather offer on the table for Fox it’s probably NY. They have the need, a rank desperation, and a stockpile of picks. My overall goal would be to get Robinson and 2-3 picks. Here are their current valuable assets that could be gettable IMO:
Robinson
2020 NYK 1st (#8)
2020 LAC 1st (#27)
2021 NYK 1st (swap right with LAC 5-30)
2021 DAL 1st unprotected
2022 NYK 1st
2023 NYK 1st
2023 DAL 1st (top 10 protected 2013-15, becomes a 2015 2nd if not conveyed)
With plenty of salary fillers to make it easy. There you go. Have at it.
Throw in Scott Perry and you got yourself a deal.
We’ll take the 2022 1st (unprotected) and we’ll take Perry off their hands. He can have Peja’s old office and he can get our new GM’s coffee. We MIGHT even give him breakfast.
That would be pretty funny if a team offered draft compensation to take over payments on the remainder of their GM’s salary.
I’d be willing to part with some 2nds if Kerr wants Walton back as an assistant.
I know many may not be onboard with Bamba’s upside (I think his fit w/our future MVP forward is intriguing) but how about…
Buddy for Mo Bamba and Terrence Ross? Add picks as needed.
Buddy is 5yrs @ $23? Ross is 4yrs@ $12.5 and Bamba is 3yrs @ $6.
Ross is only one yr older, taller, longer, better defender, and can still hit the 3.
He also would be accustomed to a bench roll behind Bogi.
Bamba is said to have good IQ, can block shots, and can hit the 3 well for a 5.
This can work. Bamba needs time to develop. He’s been the odd man out especially with Vooch and Isaac being their man. Bamba can offer so much more with Bagley even if he is injury prone.
I don
t understand so many people wanna bail out the 76ers by taking Harris horrible contract! I dont want anything to do with that, I`m not gonna do a trade just to help the sixers…I don’t mean to be a jerk, but when I see statements like “bail out the 76ers” and “just to help the 76ers” it makes me think people don’t understand the entire premise. People are offering to bail out the 76ers because the 76ers would have to hand over valuable assets for us to do it. It isn’t philanthropy. It’s extortion. And it’s a smart way for non-elite-FA destinations to derive value from their cap space.
Now, I want nothing to do with Harris. I don’t think the Sixers could or would give up enough to make it worth it. But the concept of taking on bad contracts (depending on exactly how bad and how much we get for taking them on) is a good one.
So just a recap on the King’s shitty situation that Vlade left us:
¢ Numbskull of a coach
¢ Buddy and Barnes’ contract
¢ Jabari Parker
¢ No more team identity
¢ Broken system
¢ Lots of 2nd round picks
¢ Not picking Luka because of his father
¢ Marvin Bagley
Those are the things I see that needs to be addressed this year in order to get our team out of this hellhole and have a chance to compete in the future.
How about Buddy for John Salmons and trade back three spots in the draft?
Hypothetical scenario….
Brooklyn fails to resign Joe Harris and they try to swing for the fences on a Bradley Beal trade. They fail on getting Bradley Beal, with Caris Levert as the main trade piece, but are still in need of a shooter to better complement Kyrie and Durant for next year.
I would like to ask the community for some help, as far as filling in the gaps, but how can we set up a Caris Levert for Buddy Hield trade scenario that brooklyn would actually bite on? Or am I just dreaming?
not sure if this was discussed on the podcast, just getting the chance to listen to it now
I would love to get LeVert. If Harris isn’t there, he certainly is as good a fit between Irving and Durant as anyone in the league. I mean, it may be as simple as LeVert for Hield depending on how much they value fit (and, I would think they may especially value Hield’s health considering their issues with Irving, Durant, and LeVert’s.). Some options I could see could be:
The Basic
Hield for LeVert + Temple (All about fit and health)
The Basic with a little more LeVert lean
Hield + 12 for Levert + Temple + 19
The Basic Plus Bigs
Hield + Holmes + 12 + 35 for LeVert + Allen + Temple + 19 (The Nets get short term valuable C back-up, a bit more cap space for 2021. This is all about whether they want to pay Allen’s next contract.)
The BHE Special
Hield + 12 + 43 for LeVert + Temple + Claxton + 19
They have a number of pieces I like. LeVert, Allen, TLC, Claxton, Dinwiddie…IF they decide they want Hield, I think there are a number of deals I’d be happy with. That said, with LeVert and Harris in the fold, Barnes is actually a pretty good fit for them. And obviously, much cheaper for them. In that case, I’d shoot for something like:
Barnes + 35 for Prince + Temple + Claxton.
Thanks BHE! I really appreciate you taking the time to create these trade scenarios. Got caught up with work so I couldn’t get back this until now.
I’d take that BHE special in a heartbeat! I haven’t watched too much game tape on Claxton but from what I’ve seen it’s intriguing especially with his age. If we could switch him with Allen that would be incredible but alas, I think Sean Marks would be out of his mind to collectively trade LeVert and Allen for Hield and picks. But hey, crazier things have happened in the NBA over the years.
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