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Would You Rather: Match Bogdanovic’s offer or let him walk?

Let's debate the question currently hanging over the head of the Sacramento Kings.
By | 321 Comments | Nov 23, 2020

Credit: Kimani Okearah

On Sunday, Bogdan Bogdanovic signed a 4-year $72 million offer sheet with the Atlanta Hawks. As he is a restricted free agent, the Kings have 48 hours to match the offer. We’ll know by late tomorrow morning which way the Kings will go. The question today is which way do you think they should go.

One important detail of the offer is a 15% trade kicker. Our own Tim Maxwell provided a good explanation of that kicker:

So, to clarify, the Kings would be responsible for a bonus equal to 15% of the remaining guaranteed money if/when they trade Bogi. The longer they keep him, the smaller that hit is. If the Kings found a destination Bogi liked, he could also waive that kicker to make a deal easier. And the Kings could always try to negotiate to have the team acquiring Bogi send back cash considerations to offset the financial impact of the kicker.

Keeping Bogi would preserve an asset but create a logjam between Bogi, Buddy Hield, and Tyrese Haliburton. Letting Bogi walk would create a cleaner cap sheet and avoid a logjam, but would mean losing a good player for nothing.

With the framework set, let’s start the discussion. Let us know in the comments how you would handle Bogi’s situation.

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PoundTheRock
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November 23, 2020 12:23 pm

I would rather match. We can roster him and wait for the right time to deal both BB8 and Buddy.

I really love Bogdan though. I wish it didn’t have to be this way…

PoundTheRock
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November 23, 2020 12:24 pm
Reply to  PoundTheRock

Also, think you could have found a higher resolution photo of Bogdan?

I feel like he could be a character in Wolfenstein.

Last edited 3 years ago by PoundTheRock
MyNeighborTurturro
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November 23, 2020 1:11 pm
Reply to  PoundTheRock

He definitely has the jawline.

wolfenstein-3d.jpg
cloudyeyes
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November 23, 2020 1:53 pm
Reply to  PoundTheRock

Rostering him = less minutes for him… or you can start him, bench a disgruntled Hield, take away minutes from Haliburton, just to keep Bogi’s trade value high – and then trade him with a 15% kicker in the middle of the season..

Let him walk. Above average player, solid starter. There are many like him. Give minutes to Haliburton who would happily sit on a bench as he develops.

AirmaxPG
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November 23, 2020 4:45 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

Bogi will not take minutes from Hali. Don’t know why that’s a thing. Maybe that’s what homers like James Ham will say if we get nothing in return. “It’s all part of the plan, you guys”.

It’s simple asset management. We match, and then trade him sooner or later for younger players who will fit better with Hali.

Bogi can waive the kicker if he’s not happy here.

GhostMalone
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November 23, 2020 6:57 pm
Reply to  PoundTheRock

I agree that they should match but think they should move him as soon as possible once they do. Any sort of significant return is better than letting him walk, but hanging onto him as he gets older (not to mention an injury and being stuck with his contract) is a risk that outweighs the type of return you’re going to get anyways, even if you maximize his value

1951
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November 23, 2020 12:26 pm

I am torn. Neither Buddy nor Bogi are part of the future. They both should be gone by the end of this next season at the latest.

That said, it would be nice to get some value for them. I think both would have more value at the trade deadline (as contenders deal with injuries, misfitting parts, and lack of shooting/playmaking). It’s a gamble and you are taking on the trade kicker as the price to play, but one that could pay off in acquiring some assets.

Last edited 3 years ago by 1951
Dirkula
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November 23, 2020 2:42 pm
Reply to  1951

as contenders deal with injuries, misfitting parts, and lack of shooting/playmaking

Tend to agree, however there is no guarantee he doesn’t get injured himself, and then we’re saddled with him while his value drops…

ElRonToro
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November 23, 2020 12:27 pm

I would match Bogi. We don’t have many assets and can’t afford to lose any. I would then try to trade Buddy for assets. If not Buddy then Barnes.
if this all fails I’m ok running Fox, Bogi, Buddy and hoping Halliburton at 30+ minutes a game. Barnes would split time between PF/SF around 50/50. I would go small ball. It would be fun to watch while we try to maximize our assets for future assets.

TheGrantNapear
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November 23, 2020 12:29 pm
Reply to  ElRonToro

Totally agree with this.

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 12:27 pm

Let him walk. If the future starts now, there’s no reason to ankle yourself to someone with recurring knee problems, and who will be thirty-two when the contract ends.

Assuming he stays, let Buddy start, and give Haliburton at least twenty-five minute per game. Since the new kid also plays the point with great skill, he can also spell Fox.

Let the kids play, this season isn’t about anything other than development.

TheGrantNapear
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November 23, 2020 12:29 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

32 when the contract ends actually spunds perfectly ideal to me, that’s a player’s prime.

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 12:45 pm
Reply to  TheGrantNapear
Last edited 3 years ago by andy_sims
IvanowskiNBA
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November 23, 2020 1:44 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Hey, if we get back on track to a normal season timeline he’ll only be 31 when his contact ends. Does that help? No? Didn’t think so.

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 2:42 pm
Reply to  IvanowskiNBA

This changes everything!

TheGrantNapear
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November 23, 2020 12:28 pm

He is an asset and would be under that contract. Talent deprived teams like the Kangz can’t lose the few assets they have for nothing. Sign him and either trade him or Buddy at a later time.
i think Monte is taking his time matching just to screw back at Atl. But we’ll see.

RobHessing
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November 23, 2020 12:31 pm

I would vote match…barely.

This is not without risk, obviously. Aside from the risk that always accompanies large contracts (injuries, trade demands, post-payment lethargy), one could argue that Bogi’s presence could have a negative growth impact on Haliburton, as Walton is not exactly known for developing youth in the first place. It could also continue to tamp down Hield’s value. But…

If the Kings commit to putting their best players into rotation and going smaller at the wing, there could be enough minutes to go around, and Haliburton could develop and Hield could regain his past value. Narrow needle to thread and all that.

Also, I think that the NBA will rebound financially post-COVID and that Bogi’s contract could eventually be better than fair value.

So I match. But it’s razor close, and while I’ll bemoan losing Bogi for nothing, I’ll understand the rationale if that happens.

AmateurNerd
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November 23, 2020 12:36 pm

Shake his hand and let him walk. The future of this team’s backcourt is Fox and Haliburton. Hield, for better or worse, won’t be going anywhere for a bit unless the Kings accept pennies on the dollar. McNair’s rebuild will take at least 2-3 full seasons to get going (assuming all goes well), when Bogi will be north of 30 and in line for one last big (probably inflated) payday. Keep the money, embrace the 2021 tankathon, and look forward.

AirmaxPG
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November 23, 2020 1:56 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

How does having Bogi around negatively impact Haliburton’s growth? Fox is a 1. Haliburton is a 1 or 2. Buddy’s a 2. Bogi is a 1, 2, or 3.

1- Fox 32 mins/ Hali 16
2- Buddy 30 mins/Hali 10/ Bogi 8
3- Bogi 22 mins/ Barnes 10/ Jeffries 16
4- Barnes 20/ Bagley 15/ Bjelly 13
5- Holmes 25/ Bagley 15/ Bjelly 8

That’s 26 minutes per game for Haliburton. Same as Gilgeous-Alexander his rookie year. Obviously you want to move Buddy and/or Bogi (and Barnes) as soon as you can to add young talent/picks in return.

Bottom line in my opinion is that Bogi is a valuable asset. You don’t just let those walk for nothing. $18M is fair market value for his services. You match, and you figure out the rest later. No damage will be done by keeping Bogi this year. If he wants out, he can waive the trade kicker.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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November 23, 2020 1:59 pm
Reply to  AirmaxPG

Yeah, I’d argue that keeping Buddy over Bogi is more of a hindrance to Hali’s potential playing time and growth.

I could see Fox, Hali, and Bogi sharing time on the floor together, while I can’t say the same for Fox, Hali, and Buddy.

richie88
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November 23, 2020 2:04 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I’ve read that Hali might have a 7′ wingspan, so he might be able to defend SF’s if he gets stronger.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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November 23, 2020 2:08 pm
Reply to  richie88

He is long, but it would take years of strength training to get to that point, IMO.

BuffaloDiaspora
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November 23, 2020 2:18 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

He’s 20. Adding crazy amounts of size and strength at that age is just matter of lifting a lot and jamming food into his foodhole.

(oh how I yearn for those days…)

richie88
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November 23, 2020 2:21 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

That’s why I said he’d have to get stronger.

ManilaBayCleanerCrew
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November 23, 2020 3:49 pm
Reply to  richie88

If Hali gets more muscle on his frame (and I heard he’s going to) he can play 1-3 easy.

cloudyeyes
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November 23, 2020 2:33 pm
Reply to  AirmaxPG

You give a lot of defense away starting Bogi st the 3. Bogi is 6’6″ and average SF is 6’8″ to 6’10”. Bogi can’t make up for it with a long wingspan like Haliburton, either.

Last edited 3 years ago by cloudyeyes
AirmaxPG
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November 23, 2020 4:11 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

Yeah, the point is not to win games. So if Bogi gets eaten up on D, that’s fine. Maybe he’ll waive the trade kicker to go somewhere he can play his natural position. And we’d get something in return. Point is, it won’t hurt Hali either way.

Want2win
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November 23, 2020 7:14 pm
Reply to  AirmaxPG

Since when is not winning the object of playing games?

NorCalKingsFan
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November 23, 2020 7:43 pm
Reply to  Want2win

during a tank

Want2win
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November 24, 2020 6:10 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

Fair enough…I’m not a fan of the tank..but do understand the reasons for it

AmateurNerd
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November 23, 2020 3:54 pm
Reply to  AirmaxPG

If Haliburton is Fox’s backcourt mate of the future, I’d argue it doesn’t make sense to play him split time with Bogi and Buddy in either the short or long term. As you showed above, keeping Bogi AND giving Haliburton significant playing time will 1) require Hali to back up Fox at PG, rather than play alongside him, and 2) require Bogi to play out of position at the 3. (Yes, he’s done it in the past; no, it doesn’t work very well.) A three-guard rotation of Fox, Buddy, and Hali can keep all three in their natural positions, provide more PT for Hali to develop, and–bonus–maintain more cap flexibility for the FO.
Bogi is a bona fide starter-level talent, but having four guards who need/want starter-level minutes in the backcourt is not a tenable situation. Someone’s going to get left on the bench and/or playing out of position at the 3. And for what? A few extra wins this year and next, if all goes well? I understand that Bogi is a good asset, and you don’t give up assets for nothing. But $17 million/year in cap space is also an asset, and you don’t just throw out that opportunity, either. This isn’t a choice of “asset” (Bogi”) vs. “no asset”; it’s about which asset will be more useful for the Kings at this point. My vote is for the cap space and the extra PT for Hali that comes with it.
EDIT: For the record, I’d much rather have Bogi than Buddy, so if McNair can find a way to dump Buddy in the next 24 hours and then match Bogi, sign me up in a heartbeat.

Last edited 3 years ago by AmateurNerd
Otis
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November 23, 2020 4:00 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

Saying that Haliburton is Fox’s backcourt mate of the future and relying on it are two entirely different things. Think we have to see him play first.

lutherRackley
November 24, 2020 9:31 am
Reply to  Otis

This comment, full of hard earned insight and gorgeous simplicity, should the end of the discussion.

AirmaxPG
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November 23, 2020 4:17 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

What are we going to do with $18M in cap space? We’re never going to sign a free agent with the value Bogi has right now. Bogi > cap space.

I’m not using a late lottery rookie as justification to let talent go (just yet). He’ll get his PT (as illustrated above), and the one blocking his pairing up with Fox (as you can see) is not Bogi, it’s Buddy.

You absolutely trade Buddy for whatever expirings plus picks/prospects you can get.

richie88
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November 23, 2020 7:57 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

Whether or not the Kings keep BB8, Hali’s probably gonna play at PG & SG (& he’ll probably play alongside Fox for many of his minutes at SG).

djhmltn
November 24, 2020 12:11 am
Reply to  AirmaxPG

So we’re cool with giving Fox a max deal and not increasing his minutes per game?

AirmaxPG
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November 24, 2020 8:25 am
Reply to  djhmltn

Fox will make around $8M this year. I’d like to free up more minutes by trading Buddy and/or Bogi by the time the max extension kicks in next year. But I’m not into giving valuable rotation players away for free.

ImJoeKing
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November 24, 2020 2:25 am
Reply to  AirmaxPG

Man, looking at your minutes projections makes me think how expensive CoJo is as a non-rotation guy.

AirmaxPG
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November 24, 2020 8:26 am
Reply to  ImJoeKing

Yeah the draft changed things for CoJo. Unfortunately he should be odd man out. Maybe we can get him to a contender for filler and a 2nd.

Sir_tajj
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November 23, 2020 12:38 pm

I’m keeping an eye out on James Hams tweet about something being in the works with Indiana. Letting Len walk made me buy into that a bit more. James is no Amick but has history of being the voice for the front office. Of course, matching and sending him to Indiana for Turner would be incredible if they can pull it off.

also, if Bogi doesn’t want to be here, I’m sure he’d sign off on a trade to a team he likes. Even if it’s peanuts at that point. At least we get something. I’m just praying for an article detailing how Monte sent a big FU back to Atlanta for this offer sheet with some move no one saw coming.

ManilaBayCleanerCrew
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November 23, 2020 3:51 pm
Reply to  Sir_tajj

If that happens and we get Turner for this brouhaha then that’s a big, big FU to Atlanta.

MaybeNextYear
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November 23, 2020 12:40 pm

Keep Bogi, IF we are confident we can trade both him and Buddy for decent value. Otherwise, let him walk.

ElRonToro
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November 23, 2020 12:49 pm
Reply to  MaybeNextYear

Bogi can’t be traded this year without his consent

MaybeNextYear
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November 23, 2020 12:50 pm
Reply to  ElRonToro

Something tells me he’d consent if he’s going to a better situation (aka he’d consent to trades to about 25 other teams)

Last edited 3 years ago by MaybeNextYear
ManilaBayCleanerCrew
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November 23, 2020 3:51 pm
Reply to  MaybeNextYear

If he still gets the money he won’t mind being traded to anywhere IMO.

AmateurNerd
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November 23, 2020 3:56 pm
Reply to  MaybeNextYear

Milwaukee Bucks on line 1 to have a word about this.

richie88
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November 23, 2020 8:02 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

That was a $ dispute. Now that’s he getting the $ he wants, he’ll probably go to any good team.

PlayoffModeT
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November 23, 2020 12:40 pm

I would match. Even if we only get .50 on the dollar, that is better then letting him walk. I would certainly trade Buddy soon.

Anybody else think we should kick the tires on Dario Saric or Juancho Hernangomez? I think one could be a solid add.

Tunel_21
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November 23, 2020 12:41 pm
Reply to  PlayoffModeT

Saric resigned with Phoenix

A_Night_At_The_Arco
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November 23, 2020 1:08 pm
Reply to  Tunel_21

Saw that Juancho is going back to Minny.

kingsforaday
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November 23, 2020 1:08 pm
Reply to  PlayoffModeT

annnnd hernangomez re-signed with the wolves

CastlePeak
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November 23, 2020 12:44 pm

Definitely match. As the trade kicker also verifies, Bogi is a valuable asset and Kings can’t let him walk without compensation. Roster is also thinning. Figure out next steps and options for him, Buddy and others on the roster later.

Adamsite
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November 23, 2020 12:44 pm

Match. The Kings are a market that cannot let assets walk for nothing. At near dead last in desired market for players their only option for improvement are through the draft or trade. The Kings will not get anyone of Bogi’s caliber to sign via free agency.

Once matched, McNair can evaluate the roster and make adjustments as the season progresses. The Kings are not making the playoffs anytime soon so retain what valuable assets you have and use them in trade as needed over the next year.

Marty
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November 23, 2020 12:56 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

This.

HandOfTheKings
November 23, 2020 12:46 pm

It truly makes no sense not to match it. So many contending teams will be looking to add difference makers at the trade deadline for their push to playoffs. Holding onto Bogi and dangling him for assets / picks is a no-brainer in my mind.

NotAlwaysLogic
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November 23, 2020 1:45 pm
Reply to  HandOfTheKings

True and great point, but can they trade him at this season’s deadline, or do they have to wait 1 year? Still not clear on that.

Henry
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November 23, 2020 2:16 pm
Reply to  NotAlwaysLogic

My understanding is that they would not be able to trade Bogi to the team that signed him (Atlanta) for one year. They could trade him to other teams, but that would trigger the 15% trade kicker. Not sure if there are any veto clauses in addition to the kicker, which would further complicate things.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 2:20 pm
Reply to  Henry

I think he gets to veto in the first year. I suspect he wouldn’t though, unless he was going into a truly terrible situation.

Henry
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November 23, 2020 12:47 pm

Walk. Everyone but Fox, Bagley, and the rooks need to go. Pile up the losses for a top-five pick and start over with a fresh vision. Bogi does not vault this team into a contender, does not fit the timeline, and any win he brings while on the team potentially puts us further down the draft order.

Caveat being, of course, to only match if McNair has a sure-bet trade lined up to trade Bogi to a different team, not turned off by the 15% kicker, before the deadline this year, for younger player(s) that fit the timeline. But that’s a lot of ifs, so I highly doubt would be doable.

Henry
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November 23, 2020 1:03 pm
Reply to  Henry

.. One more thing on the salary — I think whatever Milwaukee had in mind to offer ($14 mil or so) was probably fair value. Atlanta’s offer is a necessary overpay to dissuade matching. Adding the kicker, that’s about $5.5 mil per year or a total of $22 mil over value for the life of the contract! That’s more than enough to turn off most teams if the plan is to flip him. If Bogi wasn’t already part of team and well-liked by fans, it would be a Kanzy move to offer up such a contract given the fact that we are nowhere close to contending.

Last edited 3 years ago by Henry
KingofNOthing
November 23, 2020 12:47 pm

Match, I`m here for the drama if Bogdan and Buddy still here, cause its sure as hell not for the basketball.

Adamsite
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November 23, 2020 12:49 pm

The fact that it hasn’t been reported the the Kings are going to let him walk OR match tells me the McNair is still working on something. Yes, he still less than 24 hours to decide Bogi’s fate, but if his intention were to simply match or let him walk, we would have heard about it by now. Something is still cooking, me thinks.

kingsforaday
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November 23, 2020 1:13 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

This is what I’ve been thinking. Or they’re waiting for more of a consensus opinion at TKH. Hence this thread 😛.

Adamsite
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November 23, 2020 1:16 pm
Reply to  kingsforaday

Could also just be trying to make ATL sweat into a S&T. They are sitting on that $18M offer sheet while what what’s left of the usable free agents get picked up.

Henry
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November 23, 2020 1:20 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I believe now that Bogi has signed, sign and trade is no longer an option, nor can Bogi be traded to Atlanta for one year if we do match.

Adamsite
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November 23, 2020 1:22 pm
Reply to  Henry

From what I understand they can pull the offer sheet within the 48 hours. If they do that, they can negotiate a sign and trade. That all being said, they’d only do that if there was another target for them in free agency, but that ship and nearly sailed because not much is left.

Henry
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November 23, 2020 1:28 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Hm, I have never heard of that happening once the offer has been signed and submitted to the original team. If parties can back away from signed agreements then what’s the point of the whole process? I could be wrong, but either way that avenue sounds pretty far fetched.

Adamsite
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November 23, 2020 1:33 pm
Reply to  Henry

Yeah, it’s far fetched. I doubt it happens. Just spitballing as to why McNair would need the full 48 hours to make this decision. If he has no intention of matching, why not just say so so both parties can move on? I’m not sure why he’d need the full 48 hours to make the decision, especially with nothing else happening.

Had McNair used the last 24 hours to sign free agents, it would make more sense to wait 48 hours so they could go over the cap to match Bogi’s offer. Since nothing else has happened I assume McNair is still working on something.

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 1:42 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

He hasn’t needed the time to decide, he’s just fucking Atlanta for putting such a big sheet on the table. The money they offered is tied up until McNair decides, which could cost them a shot at some players.

NotAlwaysLogic
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November 23, 2020 1:47 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I love the shrewdness of waiting until the last minute. Is it that big of a sheet though? Seems like any other year with more teams having cap space Bogi would have got bid up near $20M/yr.

Adamsite
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November 23, 2020 1:52 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

But there is no one left for them to spend $18M on. At this point, what is the point? It also doesn’t address the fact that McNair has done NOTHING else. If makes me feel like he is still working on something.

If I had to guess, he is working the phones on a trade for Buddy. If he can move Buddy by noon EST tomorrow, he matches on Bogi.

Henry
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November 23, 2020 2:27 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

There is no reason to rush to decide, regardless of whether there’s anything concrete in the works. The only possibility I can think of is a match and trade for Myles Turner, given that youth movement seems to be the plan.

Flip Buddy/keep Bogi just doesn’t seem to fit, but then again neither does the interest in Whiteside. So who knows.

Adamsite
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November 23, 2020 3:00 pm
Reply to  Henry

That would be my ideal situation. Flip Buddy for Turner and match on Bogi. Julius Randle is another one I’d inquire about.

BuffaloDiaspora
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November 23, 2020 3:10 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

If the Knicks are serious about trading for Westbrook they will need to send Randle’s contract the other way (or like 9 other dudes)

If they aren’t serious about Westbrook, trading for Buddy would be the Knicksiest thing ever.

9sac8
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November 23, 2020 12:50 pm

Resign Bogi. Trade Buddy to ATL for Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish. Throw in CoJo or Justin James. Just PLEASE get it done. As stated, our roster is looking thin these days.

Last edited 3 years ago by 9sac8
SmallBallReject
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November 23, 2020 2:20 pm
Reply to  9sac8

This is actually a strategy!

richie88
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November 23, 2020 2:42 pm
Reply to  9sac8

I seriously doubt Atlanta would trade all 3 of those guys for Buddy.

ForKingsandCountry
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November 23, 2020 2:52 pm
Reply to  9sac8

I get the sense that the return for Buddy would be almost nothing so I don’t think you’re getting any of those players for him.

NorCalKingsFan
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November 23, 2020 7:58 pm

I highly doubt that Buddy has no trade value, seems like BS rumors to me. Buddy is still a lights-out shooter and they are getting paid.

Harris got 4/$72M. Bertans just got 5/$80M and is not as well-rounded as Buddy is. Using Bertans as a comparison, Buddy rebounds well for a SG so he actually rebounds at a higher clip than Bertans (BH 4.6/g vs DB 4.5/g), not to mention assists & steals being in Buddy’s favor as well (which is expected for his position, but even blocks/g was close at 0.2 vs 0.6).

If Bertans can command 5/$80M, Buddy definitely has some trade value.

richie88
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November 23, 2020 9:34 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I think Buddy has some trade value, but it’ll need to be built back up to get his trade value to a level that’d lead to a good trade (& I think that could happen since I think Gentry will be running the offense next season).

BabalooMagoo
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November 23, 2020 12:50 pm

Match Bogi and ship Buddy at the trade deadline. There is bound to be a contender that would be willing to pull the trigger.

realjc
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November 23, 2020 12:50 pm

I would let Bogi walk. Fox, Bagley, and the new kids are the future. They need all the minutes they can get to develop. Having Bogi and Hield on this roster does nothing for Sacramento’s future.

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November 23, 2020 1:01 pm

This calls for an old-fashioned coin flip

OG_Aggie
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November 23, 2020 1:03 pm

Match. Can’t give up what few assets we have. I also think there must be something cooking since all the players that have been allowed to leave. (Ok, think = hope.)

HoustonJP
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November 23, 2020 9:43 pm
Reply to  OG_Aggie

Joe Dumars is working the phones with all of his connections.

i would bet a cheeseburger Monte and Joe are also spending a lot of time with Vivek and with the larger minority interest owners walking them through the upside and the downside of matching the Hawks offer as well as doing nothing and identifying other options to monetize Bogi as an asset that should merit a fair ROCE.

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November 23, 2020 1:07 pm

I don’t trust Buddy to not cause drama even if they let BB8 walk and he gets to start. I’d prefer to match BB8 and find a trade partner for Buddy.

Adamsite
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November 23, 2020 1:17 pm
Reply to  HumboldtCPA

That is my biggest fear as well. They my let Bogi walk but also have Buddy demand a trade in the coming months.

oshima9
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November 23, 2020 1:27 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Great, tell Buddy to have his agent find someone who wants to trade something of value for him.

markdog333
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November 23, 2020 7:24 pm
Reply to  oshima9

I am hoping this has been done already.

CheekMagnet
November 23, 2020 1:08 pm

Keep. Who else are we going to sign with that 18 mill? No ones coming, we need to either draft or kidnap, I mean trade, for our assets.

ImJoeKing
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November 24, 2020 2:28 am
Reply to  CheekMagnet

Can always take on bad contracts and facilitate trades with that cap space for draft picks.

kings4ever
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November 23, 2020 1:08 pm

When you cannot get a whiff of the playoffs, like when Bogi choked two years ago and Buddy choked this summer, shooting us out of 2-3 games, when these are the two guys who are unhappy, I say STFU. You have no right to be unhappy or make demands when you have only been part of chronic losing. When you lead the team to playoffs and play well there then you can make demands. No one cares if you are unhappy.

Guess what, everyone else is unhappy with the collective underachievement and failure that got the GM canned, including other players and the fans bearing witness to the ineptitude, how about that?

So for those who say we need to appease or assuage their unhappiness, I say how about they take ownership for their discontent and play better. How about you use past adversity as motivation? Wasn’t Buddy unhappy right before he signed his 90M contract . Then he is unhappy soon again, this baby needs to grow up and look in the mirror and stop giving the ball away to the opponent like candy.

There is too much credence put into this notion, Buddy and Bogi is unhappy and we must cater to their demands. And this is why we need a stronger minded coach then a Southern California Surfer. The weakness and passiveness of Walton trickles down. A coach who garnered more respect would nip this BS in the bud.

This is a long winded way of saying none of the decisions related to keeping Bogi should relate to the prospective happiness or unhappiness of him or Buddy who both will get paid a ton of dough to dribble a ball. You are unhappy, so what, get over you prima donna p**ses and play better if you want to come near to earning your contract.

I say we match on Bogi then fire Walton at the first team slump (prob Feb or March) and get a new coach in there that can get the most out of these players instead of let the whine like spoiled children. In the meantime you hope either have career years to pump their trade value. Pump and dump is far more appealing than letting Bogi walk for nothing,

Yakshi
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November 23, 2020 1:08 pm

I would let him walk. Imagine if Bogi were a free agent, because right now, that’s basically what he is. With our roster as it is now, would signing another shooting guard be on your top-five list of priorities?

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 1:10 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

That’s as good of a summary as you’re going to find. I’d rec this twice if I could.

Adamsite
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November 23, 2020 1:18 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

The thing is, I don’t think you match to keep him long term. I don’t think many of feel that Bogi or Buddy are going to be on the next playoff team. You match just to keep the asset in the cupboard, not to win games.

oshima9
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November 23, 2020 1:34 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

It’s a high risk asset that creates problems for the team.

AirmaxPG
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November 23, 2020 2:08 pm
Reply to  oshima9

Wait, Bogi is high risk?

ImJoeKing
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November 24, 2020 2:32 am
Reply to  AirmaxPG

At that contract, with that trade kicker, his age, and injury history there is more than a little risk that attempts to salvage value out of his restricted status blows up in the Kings face if they match.

AirmaxPG
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November 24, 2020 8:33 am
Reply to  ImJoeKing

Contract is market value. Trade kicker can be waived. He’s 28. His injury history is fine. I think high risk is over-stating a little. It’s a risk for sure, but seems to be one that at least one very respected GM in Schlenk is willing to take.

LOUiE
November 23, 2020 3:34 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I don’t think there will ever be a next playoff team.

eurostep
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November 23, 2020 1:24 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Best take of the day.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 1:46 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

No it wouldnt but signing another shooting gaurd thats better and cheaper then the one I already have then I do that. Then I trade the more expensive one who is not as good for pennies on the dollar. I am ok with that.

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 2:04 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

What color is the sky in the world where this happens?

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 2:22 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Huh? What do you mean. It happens under a blue sky.

Bogi is better and cheaper then Buddy. Keep the better and cheaper player as opposed to the weaker more expensive player.

Trade Buddy. Is it for Pennies on the dollar? I don’t care.

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 2:47 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Just trade him.

“Here, other team! You’re taking Buddy Hield and his shit attitude! We would like back one All-Star and between nine and twelve first round picks.”

You’re right. McNair would be stupid not to do this deal.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 6:22 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Um… are you kidding or serious? I can’t tell.

I didn’t say trade him for an all star or trade him for 9 first round picks. Definitely not both. Was your comment even meant for me?

if it in fact was then I will tell you what I did actually say. I said trade Buddy for expiring contracts and a late first round pick. I would be absolutely shocked if 10 different teams wouldn’t jump at that opportunity.

so yeah, €œhey other team, here’s Buddy Hield. Thanks for taking a really good player that’s going to help your playoff team make a championship run in exchange for two guys you were already trying to get rid of and a late 20 first round pick next year. We owe you?€

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
markdog333
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November 23, 2020 7:31 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

You might have to be the team giving up the pick in that scenario. The only redeeming thing about Buddy’s contract right now is that it is declining, so it may have positive value towards the end.

Last edited 3 years ago by markdog333
AirmaxPG
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November 23, 2020 2:09 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

If Bogi were a free agent, there’s no way in hell he would come here. That’s why don’t let him walk for nothing. He can play 1, 2, or 3. Unlike Buddy.

BabalooMagoo
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November 23, 2020 3:13 pm
Reply to  AirmaxPG

Wait, I thought Buddy could play point guard. At least Luke apparently thinks/thought so.

jswilliams37
November 23, 2020 8:24 pm
Reply to  BabalooMagoo

This is a reply to a bunch of you…

What if Buddy had an off year and this year he’s on?

SierraSpartan
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November 23, 2020 1:09 pm

I’m 6/5 U-pick-’em on this but my instinct is to let him go.

I love Bogi for his leadership of the horde and his ability to make dagger threes when needed (at least early in the season).

BUT…

Keeping Bogi will be a ginormous anchor of a contract of a dude who has already demonstrated he wants out. Having him plus another malcontent (Hield) in the same locker room is going to stunt the playing growth (and the professional growth) of Tyrese.

If the market was better for Hield in the medium-term future I’d take a chance on keeping Bogi, but I just don’t see that locker room gelling.

Last edited 3 years ago by SierraSpartan
jjdski
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November 23, 2020 1:13 pm

Byeeee!

Chent
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November 23, 2020 1:14 pm

Match. Bogi and Buddy are like the same level of player to me, and both could help teams so I dont believe neither will have a market. One will have to go (probably both), so I would definitely look to move Buddy now and possibly Bogi next year.

Hobby916
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November 23, 2020 1:18 pm

Match, I think. Once Giannis decides on his extension with the Bucks, there could be a few teams that might inquire about Bogi (Heat, Mavs, Raptors, etc). That might open a window to get something in return as the season rolls on.

Also, it would be very on brand for the Kings to match only to have Bogi continue to have knee problems and reduce his value as the years go on, that is the risk.

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 1:46 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Milwaukee has seen a number of players already leave the team on deals. At this moment, the Bucks are a demonstrably worse team than they were the past couple of seasons. Signing Bogi would’ve helped the team make a case for Giannis to stay, but unless something significant happens, there’s no way that he’ll lock himself in this early. I definitely wouldn’t assume that he re-signs.

Yakshi
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November 23, 2020 1:21 pm

I have a follow up to the topic question. Why aren’t we tanking?

Hobby916
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November 23, 2020 1:22 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

We can’t even do that right!

Yakshi
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November 23, 2020 1:26 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

Not overtly, of course. But Fox is 22. If McNair’s plan is to surround Fox with players that are his age, how is tanking not an optimal ingredient? Let’s run the floor like maniacs, playing 10+ per night. We get minutes for our draft picks. It’ll be fun to watch, despite the losing. What’s the best route, however unlikely, to a championship?

Yakshi
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November 23, 2020 1:28 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

I just don’t see how resigning Bogi helps us tank. We look indecisive.

Henry
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November 23, 2020 1:31 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

We absolutely should be tanking. So unless there is an airtight plan to flip Bogi later for Myles Turner or some other young player that fits the timeline, we should not match.

oshima9
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November 23, 2020 1:36 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Yes, and it looks like we are saddling our new GM with the players drafted by the old GM.

RORDOG
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November 23, 2020 7:55 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

There’s a difference between fan sentiment and the GM’s intentions.

Hobby916
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November 23, 2020 1:28 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

I agree, no more overpaying for role players. Let the young dudes get out and run and take their licks as the season progresses.

1951
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November 23, 2020 1:25 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

You think that we are not tanking?

Hmm. All evidence points to the future so far, not next season!

It’s the stealthy tank!

Also, Carmichael Dave said, “trust the process” on twitter and I will never believe otherwise, including his own denials! 😉

bjax1
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November 23, 2020 3:42 pm
Reply to  1951

I say let him walk. As fans we tend to overvalue our own players. Is Bogi good? Yeah. But is he good for this team? The answer is , “ummm, not sure.” However, I think its more like, “Umm, not for 18M with a 15% trade kicker! Get the [redacted] outta here!” Good teams let players walk all the time – see Boston and Kyrie and this year, Hayward. So, yeah. Its been fun, but I wish Bogi well.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:53 pm
Reply to  bjax1

I don’t get too worked up about the trade kicker, one – because it’s 15%, and two – the player can waive it.

NorCalKingsFan
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November 23, 2020 8:42 pm
Reply to  bjax1

Good teams let players walk all the time

yes, but not without compensation

arbexfernando
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November 23, 2020 1:31 pm

I’m trying to figure what’s going to happen if Bogi walks

Are we going to overpay a big like Hassan Whiteside in a one year deal and clear the cap for FAs that will not sign us next off season?

I say match

Wish we had a better coach who could easily manage small lineups. Billy Donovan had CP3, SGA and Schroder closing games. I can see Haliburton with the size to grab some rebounds needed, like SGA.

Too many guards should not be a problem nowadays. When the time comes, deal Bogi, Buddy or both. Deal Barnes too, what a bad contract, my lord

BuffaloDiaspora
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November 23, 2020 1:48 pm
Reply to  arbexfernando

Barnes is not tradeable unless there is a pick attached or until he becomes an expiring. The Kings are paying 3 years of that contract. Any other scenario is pure fantasy.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 1:32 pm

You Match. Lets weigh the pros and cons

Con- Its a fairly large contract at 18 million per year
Con- It makes our guard rotation very deep, possibly slowing Haliburtons growth.
Con – Trade kicker
Con – it will make Buddy be a 6 man which could cause drama
Con – He’s 28
Con – This contract would ballon our cap sheet

Pro- He is a very good starting SG
Pro – You dont lose him for nothing
Pro – You are guaranteed a starting SG or at worst a super 6th man for the next 4 years.
Pro – He makes Buddy Hield expendable
Pro – he himself is very tradable down the line if needed.

The Pros are the Pros, Let me try to debunk some or all of these Cons.

1.) 18 million per year for 4 years is a reasonable contract for a player as good as Bogi. Very fair. It’s not his contract size that would be the problem. If you can get a player as good as bogi for 18 million you take it and deal with the issues of the other contracts accordingly. Off load people if you need more money to sign Bagley to an extension for example.

2.) Bazemore just left. There are minutes For Tyrese, plenty of minutes for him with both Buddy and Bogi on the roster. Haliburton can play both gaurd spots, Buddy and bogi have both played some small ball 3. Keeping Bogi and Buddy for one season doesnt hurt Haliburton. Past that then you likely have a problem with Haliburton’s development.

3.) Bogi can waive the trade kicker. I dont really see a scenario where the Kings are trying to trade a player like Bogi unless Bogi wants to be traded. He’ll be here for 4 years unless he wants a change himself. I am totally cool with that. If he wants the change then he will happily waive the trade kicker. Bogi is the type of player I am 100% fine being locked in with for 4 years at that price. He does a little bit of everything well and is very versatile. Those are easy players to keep around. I also like his IQ in terms of growing with Haliburton and Fox. I like that core guard rotation for a long time. Replace Buddy with Bogi and that IQ growth as a trio DRAMATICALLY drops off.

4.) I could give two shits if buddy isnt happy with his role as a 6th man. Cry me a river. Be better, Don’t perpetually make STUPID ASS decisions that cost your team possessions. Don’t insist you are Kobe when you’re Klay at best. Just be a good teammate. Period. If you want to demand a trade then go for it. Whatever value gets returned for Buddy is important. If its simply expiring contracts and a late future first round pick I am fine with that. Should the return be better? Maybe. Hopefully. If it’s not, you still got a future first round pick to work with and the expiring contracts will expire clearing room for potentially
big free agent signings.

5.) Bogi is 28. And? When his contract is up He’ll be 32. Thats the tail end of his PRIME, not the tail end of his career. It’s kinda perfect actually.

6.) His contract does initially balloon our cap sheet but trades can and should be made. Trade cojo and a second round pick for an expiring contract. Trade Cojo and Holmes together to get a deal done to free up the cap space. Trade Barnes. OR… TRADE BUDDY!!!!!!!!! Expiring contracts and a future first for Buddy is value. I would happily take that for a player with an attitude problem that doesnt want to be here. Is he likely worth more than that? Yes and I would bet Monty could find something much better. Personally I am fine with not being in a “Powerful position” or have the “Leverage” in a buddy Hield trade. Would it be great if Luke didnt F up his Value? Sure would but thats nit the case now is it. His value is less then ideal so lets get a less then ideal compensation for him. I’m cool with that because whatever it is, theres value in the acquisitions that come back.

Bring back Bogi and spend the next 6 months finding the best trade partner for Buddy. Tell Buddy you will trade him by the trade deadline and then he likely wont be such a baby.

Problem solved. Manage these two assets (Bogi and Buddy) in the optimal way. The optimal way is retain Bogi for18 million and then offload Buddy for whatever you can get.

richie88
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November 23, 2020 3:16 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

My understanding is that BB8’s at the tail end of a normal NBA player’s prime.

The Kings don’t necessarily need to trade for expiring contracts (though it’d probably make sense to do that in a trade involving Buddy or BB8). Joseph’s essentially an expiring contract next season (I believe his contract for the 2021-22 season only has a $2M guarantee). The contracts of Holmes, Bjelly & Parker expire after next season.

Last edited 3 years ago by richie88
RORDOG
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November 23, 2020 8:02 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

i think you forgot the con of Bogi hurting their ability to tank.

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 1:32 pm

I don’t really understand all of the “trade Buddy instead” comments. Bogi is the only player currently in a match-or-walk situation, whatever happens with Hield will be unrelated.

I understand that Bogi is a fan favorite, I’m definitely in that camp. He’s a fun player to watch. If he stays, it’s on an overpay that:

  1. Impedes the growth of Haliburton
  2. Precludes any chance for the Kings to play in 2021 free agency, even if only to take on contracts to receive draft picks
  3. Spends way too much on a player whose role here is slated to be a backup, sooner rather than later, and
  4. Plays a position where we have depth.

If you sign him, maybe we win 22 games instead of twenty. McNair was given this cesspool of bad options by Divac, and Monte isn’t going to wade through it and come out clean. If he walks for nothing, it’s due to the many bad decisions made by the previous regime.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 1:40 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

My point is that keeping Bogi sets the plan in motion. Sign Bogi. 30 seconds later… “The Sacramento Kings are looking to trade Buddy Hield”.

If Monte can’t find a trade suitor for Buddy by the trade deadline then he shouldnt have this Job. I don’t need him to flip Buddy for Victor Olidipo, I just need him to flip Buddy for 2 expiring contracts, a young prospect on a 2 way contract and a future late first round pick. That shouldnt be that hard.

Now the main issues wit keeping Bogi are solved and we have a future first round pick and our disgruntled baby who thinks he is better than he is will be gone.

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 1:52 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Thirty seconds later still leaves you selling low on Hield. The Kings need to let Buddy play, and do what he’s good at: constant movement leading to good looks from deep.

I think that you have to assume that Hield is likely to be with the team into February or March, at least. (I don’t know when the trade deadline is with the truncated season, and I’m too lazy to look it up.)

If McNair can move Buddy for at least once decent pick and some salary in return, I think you have to consider it. If he plays the way he’s capable, you have a lot more leverage. Keeping Bogi around would only serve to restrict Hield’s minutes, and also Haliburton’s.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 2:43 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I dont really get your point or maybe I am just missing it. Keeping Bogi lowers Buddy’s trade value is what you are saying I think. Thats why you would trade Buddy quickly. Get what you can for him now. I dont see his vlue rising that much under the current situation.

You have created an interesting question here I think. Is there more value in letting Bogi walk thus freeing up a starting role and more minutes for Buddy which eventually will inflate the value of his contract back and then trade him or is it better to keep Bogi at 18 and trade buddy now when his value is lower?

It’s a cool question.

Lets say Bogi walks for zero, Now, Buddy starts. Luke changes the offense to utilize buddy and runs continuous pick plays for him to get catch and shoot opportunities. Do we trust Walton to use buddy in the optimal way and increase his value drastically over 6 months? I dont.

And let me raise this hypothetical… Would you trade Buddy for Bogi next summer straight up? Considering the contracts and skill of each player I definitely would, That being the case, why not just keep Bogi for 18 and then whatever you get for Buddy by the trade deadline is a bonus. High value or not.

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 2:49 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

I have only one question:

If Buddy Hield is so easy to trade, then why is he still here?

Otis
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November 23, 2020 2:52 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

“If it were easy, everyone would do it.”

The market for Buddy right now is soft, apparently. It might be better later in the season.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 6:34 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Because maybe he’s not even being shopped. I don’t know.

But, if you’re telling me that Monty can’t find a team to take buddy in exchange for some expiring contracts maybe an end of bench young guy that’s barely hanging on to a spot in the league and a late first round pick then Monty should not have this job.

I would be happy with that trade if it came with keeping Bogi for 18 for 4.

if Bogi walks I would no longer be happy with that trade package for Buddy.

I am looking at it very simply. One player is better than the other. That’s player is Bogi. One player costs less. That player is Bogi. One player wants to be traded. That player is buddy. Keeping Bogi trading buddy means you’re keeping one good thing and getting valuable things in exchange for the other. Letting Bogi walk means you’re losing the better thing and all you’re left with is the more expensive thing that’s not as good.

#nobrainer

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
richie88
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November 23, 2020 9:47 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

I hope Buddy’s traded, but I want him traded for a good haul (& that’s also what I hope happens w/BB8). That’ll probably require that Buddy remains on the Kings for part of the season so that his trade value can be built back up (since I think Gentry will be running the offense, I think Buddy’s trade value can be built back up).

ScottyPop
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November 23, 2020 2:20 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

This is where I’m at. I’d let him walk.

NotAlwaysLogic
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November 23, 2020 3:05 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Hali playing with good players like Bogdon won’t impede his growth, even if it reduces his minutes somewhat. Having Hali play with a group of scrubs winning 10-15 games will impede his growth IMO.

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November 23, 2020 1:34 pm

I think he goes to ATL and we get nothing. Not ideal but not the end of the world. Let’s put some real responsibility on the young guys to build this team.

NotAlwaysLogic
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November 23, 2020 1:42 pm

4/72 is actually good value. Any other year with more teams having cap space he would have gotten bidden up closer to 20/yr. Take the value contract and match. Have him and Buddy continue to compete for the starting spot. Continue to find a trade for Buddy. Need some good players like Bogi to help the young guys develop.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 1:59 pm

Lets do some Math:

Bogi leaving for nothing = zero

keeping bogi and trading Buddy = a return for Buddy that carries value. Small value? Big Value? Medium Value? it doesnt matter, it brings back value.

Kepping Bogi and Trading Buddy = A player with a good attitude is staying and a player with a bad attitude is leaving.

Kings +1 Bogi – 1 Buddy = a better cap sheet with more assets and a happy team.

#nobrainer

BuffaloDiaspora
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November 23, 2020 2:13 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Letting Bogi walk clears $18M/year in cap space for the next three years.

Trading Buddy means eating salary in return, possibly on worse contracts and definitely on worse players. I’m not entirely sure what people are expecting to get in return here, but it will almost certainly mean eating at least one outright terrible contract and lottery-bound teams are unlikely to be interested so whatever pick comes back to the Kings is either going to be in the 20s or won’t convey for several years.

Last edited 3 years ago by BuffaloDiaspora
Otis
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November 23, 2020 2:30 pm

Trading Buddy should mean eating one year of salary, but I don’t see why it would need to be a longterm contract.

BuffaloDiaspora
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November 23, 2020 2:44 pm
Reply to  Otis

It depends who is on the other end of the transaction and what contracts they have available to send back. And an expiring contract is inherently valuable for them as well.

I’m just struggling to see where the available trade is to a team that 1) has enough nominal contract value to send back, 2) Is interested in a 28 year old excellent shooter and 3) can return enough value in terms of draft picks and young players.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 2:48 pm

Buddy and Bogi are probably both borderline top-10 at their positions. I think, at worst, you could find some suitors as you get close to the trade deadline.

Or, at worst, you move one/both next offseason.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 2:53 pm

Teams hold value in expiring contracts for this exact reason. To acquire a player like Buddy Hield to make a playoff push or championship run.

BuffaloDiaspora
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November 23, 2020 2:58 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Sure, but playoff teams almost definitionally can’t give much back in draft compensation unless they are holding someone else’s lottery pick (which is rare)

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 3:12 pm

Theres opportunities out there.

Personally, I don’t need an amazing return or even good return for Buddy in a trade.

Bogi leavig for Atlanta = zero compensation.

Buddy being traded = compensation for that asset. Great, good or bad return doesn’t matter. Any return is better than no return.

Option 1,) Keep the better player for less money and get compensation for the other guy.

Option 2.) Let the better and cheaper player leave for nothing and keep the lesser player who doesnt want to be here on a higher and less tradable contract.

#nobrainer

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 3:16 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Every scenario that you present is predicated on the Kings being able to trade Hield whenever they decide to do so.

Buddy is still here. Your assumption that that he can be traded at the team’s convenience is a large one, and it doesn’t hold up the rest of the assumptions that you keep making.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:37 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

We don’t know the level of effort the team has made in working a deal for Buddy Hield. Most likely, they are asking for too much. Maybe that price will be amenable to a team later in the season.

I don’t think they should fire sale Buddy Hield, but I’d be calling other GMs day-in, day-out during the season. On Bogi too.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 3:39 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

It’s not an assumption that he can be traded tomorrow, it’s a fact. It simply depends on the return you want back.

Anything is better than nothing and nothing is what we get by letting Bogi walk and keeping Buddy. The opposite of that we get whatever assets for buddy plus a better shooting gaurd for less money.

#nobrainer

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 4:58 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

No brainer, indeed.

Step 1: Trade Hield for anything.
Step 2: Don’t worry about the return.
Step 3: Dynasty.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 5:07 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

We should just close up shop until we can find the GM who can create a dynasty with one decision.

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November 23, 2020 5:21 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Put it this way, I’d rather sell low on Buddy than let Bogi walk for nothing.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 7:04 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

You’re being condescending for some reason.

Step 1: Match Bogi at 18
Step 2: Trade Buddy. (Worst case scenario for his return in a trade deal would be expiring contracts and a late first round pick).

if it’s better than that and it likely would be then great!!! If it’s not then that’s cool too because you just free’d up a bunch of flexibility and cap space for next offseason, you have a cheaper and better version of a starting SG or super 6th man locked up on a fair deal for 4 years and you got an extra first round draft pick.

Step 3: make more draft picks, make more trade and try to become a top 10 team in the league.

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
richie88
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November 23, 2020 10:17 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

I’d say that it’d be more like:
Step 1: Match BB8’s offer from Atlanta.
Steps 2 & 3: Trade Buddy & BB8 for good deals (selling low on Buddy wouldn’t be a good deal IMO)
Step 4: Use the assets acquired in the Buddy & BB8 trades to become a good team.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 6:52 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

It’s not a large one.

I’ll keep repeating this in here because it’s all I can really say at this point of our discussion and my position on this topic. If Monty can’t find 10 teams willing to trade expiring contracts and a future first round pick top 20 protected then he should not have the job he has. Period.

sorry, I just don’t see how suddenly Buddy Hield is the only player in the NBA on a 4 year descending salary contract averaging out to 21 million a year that can’t be traded.

BuffaloDiaspora
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November 23, 2020 3:21 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Any return is better than no return.

That is just… not true. At least not with the way the NBA CBA works.

Why do you think John Wall is still on the Wizards?

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 3:44 pm

Because his contract is STUPID, he hasnt played in two years, and he has a rough reputatuion.

If another team could afford Wall they woulld easily be able to trade him.

Every team can afford to acquire Buddy hield in a trade. do they want to and what t\would they give up to get him is the question.

I know the Bucks offer isnt available anymore but I would happily take that exact same trade package for buddy if the numbers worked. 2 young players on the cheap with upside and an expiring contract. Sounds good when you layer that with getting a better SG for less money plus the additional assets.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 7:11 pm

you have literally picked the worst contract in NBA history as your counter argument to my point.

the King’s aren’t going to trade Buddy for John Wall straight up, I don’t think we need to worry ourselves about that. That’s also not the kind of thing or player that would be involved in a buddy trade. The kings don’t need to get a star in return. They just need something. If it’s only future cap space and a second round pick then that’s still better than nothing.

Someting > Nothing – every time.

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
andy_sims
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November 24, 2020 7:35 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Is that so?

So you’d be happier with syphilis than without?

NorCalKingsFan
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November 23, 2020 8:51 pm

Because that contract is way worse and Wall hasn’t played in two years. At least Buddy can play every single night so at least you get something for your money.

Gregoryl
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November 23, 2020 2:55 pm

18M a year in cap space is wasted when youre the Kings… we get better thru trades and the draft, not FA.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 6:46 pm

You are speculating a lot. I don’t necessary need anything good for buddy Hield. If the main piece in return is a late first round pick I’m happy with that. The other pieces should be guys on 1 year expiring deals or non guaranteed deals or young players that are still trying to find a home in the league. Anything more than that would be delightful. I bet Monty can find it if he tried or if he’s allowed to. If he can’t than he shouldn’t have this Job. Look at what his old boss just did in Philly with that roster.

I’m thinking Daryl Morey might just maybe be able to figure out a way to trade Buddy Hield to any other team for expiring contracts and a late first round pick. I know he got harden and then got Chris paul and then got Russ and all but is Morey good enough to pull this buddy Hield trade off?

cloudyeyes
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November 23, 2020 2:24 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Much much more complicated than that. Keeping him with the intention of trading him means starting him/take away minutes from Haliburton and bench Hield to justify an $18 mil/season salary for an average player. Oh yeah, we also get hit with 15% trade kicker when we do trade him. But ALL of that is worth an expiring contract + Donte Divincenzo?

Otis
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November 23, 2020 2:29 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

Reality is, Haliburton is a 20 year-old, 12th pick in a weak draft. This is a development year, and he’ll either play his way on the floor or he won’t. There’s always injuries to think about, as well. I think he should be a nonfactor in this decision.

It shouldn’t be that hard to deal either Buddy or Bogi after you have them both in tow. They are talented players with some value.

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November 23, 2020 5:22 pm
Reply to  Otis

Important point here. We are all high on Hali, but we haven’t even seen him on an NBA court. Bogi and Buddy are still likely the de-facto wings ahead of him.

richie88
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November 23, 2020 2:30 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

If the Kings match, they could get a better return than the proposed Bucks trade since there’d probably be a better trade market for BB8.

Last edited 3 years ago by richie88
Otis
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November 23, 2020 2:32 pm
Reply to  richie88

There would theoretically be a larger potential trade market, for sure.

AirmaxPG
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November 23, 2020 2:37 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

As illustrated above, keeping Bogi will take exactly ZERO minutes away from Haliburton.

But I’m sure it’s what shills like James Ham will use as justification, should we let a valuable asset walk for nothing. Taking a step forward and then a step back is why the Kings never go anywhere.

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 2:59 pm
Reply to  AirmaxPG

Given that Bogi, Haliburton and Buddy all play the same position, how do you figure that Bogi wouldn’t take minutes from the rookie?

Obviously, you don’t want to play your rookie thirty-five minutes a night, but how can you justify $38 million per year for not one, but two guys who you have to play in order to increase their trade value, because neither of them are in the long-term plans of the franchise?

I like Bogi, but on that contract, they’re doing us a favor.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:02 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

How can you justify it? Because they are assets, and asset valuation is pretty important for this franchise.

Yakshi
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November 23, 2020 3:04 pm
Reply to  Otis

In what sense is Bogi an asset?

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:05 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

In the biblical sense.

Seriously?

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November 23, 2020 3:06 pm
Reply to  Otis

Yes.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:08 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Well, I guess if we’re going to get technical, they are all assets. He’s an asset because the Kings have a right to match his QO.

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November 23, 2020 3:15 pm
Reply to  Otis

Okay. I disagree that all of our players are assets, because a few are of no value to anyone else. We play them because they have guaranteed contracts. When the alternative is simply waiving them, we are losing less by having them on the floor. My point is that I view an overpaid player as a liability, not an asset. Under this proposed contract, and in light of McNair’s long-term plans as well as the present composition of them, I think that Bogi would clearly be a liability.

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November 23, 2020 3:16 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

present composition of the team*

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 3:18 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

I don’t see how Bogi would be over paid. It’s a ver fair contract. Look at what Fred Vanvleet just got.

Yakshi
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November 23, 2020 3:21 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

We don’t need Fred Vanvleet either.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 3:30 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Thats not the point. The point is it’s a reasonable contract.

Why do you seem opposed to keeping the better player for less money and getting a return for the more expensive lesser player? I don’t get yoour angle.

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
richie88
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November 23, 2020 3:32 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

It’s a reasonable contract that could have good trade value.

andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 4:01 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Again, you keep putting all of your assertions on the house of cards that Buddy Hield can be traded at any point that the front office wants. Hield has nothing to do with whether to keep Bogi, because at some point, both of them are gone. The only way Hield factors in is that his presence makes Bogi largely redundant.

They aren’t the same player, but given what shooters are getting in deals right now, even those who do nothing else particularly well, we’re better off with the cap space.

Cap space doesn’t win you games, but winning games isn’t going to be the point for awhile.

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November 23, 2020 4:14 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I completely agree that winning isn’t going to be the point for a while.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 7:20 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Winning games isn’t the point. Agreed! Putting a respectable team on the floor for our young guys to be able to compete and get better with is the most important thing. Keeping Bogi for 4 years and never trading him would be fine and maybe even ideal. He can be a starter next year and a super 6th man/occasional starter the next 3 years. He’s good depth for now and still will be 3 years from now barring any catastrophic injuries. With Buddy getting traded by the allstar break Bogi wouldn’t impede anyone.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:34 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Well, then we don’t need DeAaron Fox either right?

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November 23, 2020 3:39 pm
Reply to  Otis

Why don’t we need DeAaron Fox? What is McNair’s stated plan?

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November 23, 2020 3:42 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

I’m trying to understand your logic. VanVleet would bring more wins, because he’s a better player. But Fox is a better longterm asset (IMO).

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November 23, 2020 3:51 pm
Reply to  Otis

I’m talking about McNair’s plan to build around Fox with players of similar age. There are a few reasons why re-signing Bogi doesn’t help achieve any of those plans. He’s just not part of the long-term plans, so why do we sign him to a long-term contract?

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:56 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Why do we not let an asset walk? Because you might deal him for a more toxic (short-term) asset and a draft pick (there’s your younger player).

Or, since Bogi was apparently a bit more of a commodity in free agency (even as an RFA), maybe you match and have more options for trade than simply Atlanta. Maybe you can pull Myles Turner (24 years old) from Indiana.

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November 23, 2020 3:59 pm
Reply to  Otis

Or call up the Bucks in a week or two.

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November 23, 2020 4:04 pm
Reply to  Otis

Okay, well by now you know that I disagree that Bogi under this contract is an asset. Yes, it’s true that we could trade our liability for a bigger, more toxic liability and a draft pick down the line. I don’t know how likely that would be. Personally, I think doing nothing here is the best move.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 4:07 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

So we’re simply in disagreement about Bogi’s value as an NBA player. I think you might be undervaluing him, as he was apparently being pursued by quite a few teams (and decent teams at that) in FA.

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November 23, 2020 4:18 pm
Reply to  Otis

No, not just his value as a player. I think he’s a very talented player I’m talking about more than that. The trade-unfriendly contract. Our redundancy at SG. McNair’s long-term plans to go younger. The trade length. This looks like the kind of contract for a player who is going to stay with his next team for at least three years.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 4:20 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Well, if it’s four at 18 per year, we’re going to probably have to agree to disagree on how unfriendly that deal is.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 7:25 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Bogi Staying 4 years and leaving isn’t going to disrupt the youth movement. He can help the youth movement grow and be high basketball IQ players like him by the time he leaves. He can be a super six man during the third year if this 4 year contract and help push these young guys over the hump and in to the payoffs.

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
richie88
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November 23, 2020 3:57 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

He’s just not part of the long-term plans, so why do we sign him to a long-term contract?

B/c he’s a valuable asset that could help the Kings via the assets they’d get by trading him.

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November 23, 2020 4:06 pm
Reply to  richie88

Maybe that would happen, trade-kicker and all. But meanwhile, he’s helping us win games, and isn’t that bad when the best way we can be adding talent to such an unappealing destination is through the draft?

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:32 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Well, they are all assets insofar as we have some control over them.

Bogi would certainly become a negative asset at a certain level of salary. I don’t think this number is that level of salary.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 3:16 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Um… He’s a really good player of basketball in a profession where being good at basketball makes you an asset to your organization.

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November 23, 2020 3:20 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Okay, that sounds good, but what does that mean in terms of wins. How many wins does Bogi get us? I disagree that being good at basketball makes you an asset to your organization. Harrison Barnes is untradeable, and he is good at basketball. Is Harrison Barnes an asset or a liability with a guaranteed contract?

richie88
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November 23, 2020 3:27 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Barnes isn’t an asset b/c he costs too much given his level of production.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:31 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

How many wins does letting him leave get us?

Honestly, I don’t really care about wins right now.

And Barnes is an asset, albeit a negative asset. We’d have to attach something of more value to move him.

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November 23, 2020 3:42 pm
Reply to  Otis

I want fewer wins, not more wins.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:45 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Sorry, I’m very confused about what you’re saying.

Okay, that sounds good, but what does that mean in terms of wins. How many wins does Bogi get us?

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November 23, 2020 3:54 pm
Reply to  Otis

I’m talking about the other side of the argument. It would have to be that Bogi gives us wins, right? That’s what all of the asset talk boils down to, doesn’t it? I’m saying that despite adding a few wins to our final total, his addition doesn’t help us at all. Instead, by lowering our odds of getting a good draft pick, re-signing Bogi might actually hurt us.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:58 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Not in the slightest. I don’t see Bogi as part of the next “really good” Kings team.

Instead, by lowering our odds of getting a good draft pick, re-signing Bogi might actually hurt us.

If you’ll forgive me, I’ve been a Kings fan since 1985 and rarely have I seen that philosophy help us.

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November 23, 2020 4:10 pm
Reply to  Otis

I think that when you compare the Kings using the draft, going the trade route, or relying on free agency, free agency is the most hopeless route, wouldn’t you agree? If so, we’re left with tanking or trading for draft picks, which in my mind is tanking by another name.

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November 23, 2020 4:15 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Trading for picks is definitely an important part of tanking. If the Kings keep BB8, they can trade him (& hopefully Buddy) for picks.

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November 23, 2020 4:22 pm
Reply to  richie88

I think the trade-unfriendly terms of the contract are important here. A team that trades for Bogi has better be sure that they’re going to keep him for three years. In any case, these terms surely diminish his value. What kind of pick do you expect for Bogi or Buddy?

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November 23, 2020 4:15 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

Or trading from positions of strength to shore up positions of weakness. That’s not tanking, that’s asset management.

richie88
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November 23, 2020 3:30 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

BB8 & Hali can play positions other than SG, so they could get their minutes at SG & another position.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 2:50 pm
Reply to  cloudyeyes

Why do you have to start Buddy?

Why are we so hung up on trying to inflate his value? Are we going to inflate his value at the detriment to the entire team? How much better or higher can his value get in 6 months time with Luke running a bull shit offense Using Buddy as the primary ball handler and making Fox run around looking for open 3pt attempts? Could Luke actually lower his value even further? I think thats more likely then Luke inflating it.

And honestly I don’t think it’s much more complicated then that. Keeep Bogi for 18, trade Buddy by the trade deadline for whatever you can get. Done

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November 23, 2020 2:53 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

You’ve made an excellent point: Paying $38 million per season for two aging shooting guards would be silly.

Last edited 3 years ago by andy_sims
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November 23, 2020 3:18 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

I feel like you are anticipating future complaints if the Kings do match. “Why are we tying up $38 million on one position?”

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November 23, 2020 3:23 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

It’s 18 million tied up in Bogi. You then Trade Buddy within the next 6 months.

You keep the better cheaper player and trade the lesser more expensive one for whatever assets you can get back in return.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 3:20 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

But you wouldnt be. You would only be paying Bogi.

Maybe you have to pay Buddy for another 6 months until you find the best trade partner but it’s worth it.

Last edited 3 years ago by ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 3:21 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

What are you assuming?

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November 23, 2020 3:23 pm
Reply to  Yakshi

That Buddy can be traded. It’s not that hard to trade a guy like Buddy if you dont expect a huge return. I’m not expecting a huge return.

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November 23, 2020 4:09 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

And yet his name hasn’t come up even once in rumors of a trade.

This constant refrain of being able to trade Buddy at will is simply false. Lose Walton has lowered Hield’s value to the point where his contract seems bad. He will need floor time in order to rebuild rep. Hield may eventually be trade bait, but that will be harder to realize if Bogi is playing 30+ minutes per game.

Hield is a sunk cost. Doubling down to keep Bogi doesn’t make sense. He’s missed multiple games each year due to knee issues, and when they recur again, I’d rather the team that has him stuck to the bench in street clothes isn’t in Sacramento.

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November 23, 2020 4:15 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

LOL. Teams know what Buddy is. What changed is that he’s making a lot more money now. That makes him harder to deal, but the market will probably be more amenable closer to the deadline.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 7:41 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

You are mistaken if you think no team in the NBA sees value in Buddy the player under his current contract.

why is Buddy different from every other player in the league making 21 million a year on average. He has the most 3ptrs made in his first 4 seasons in the nba than any player ever. He had a ever so slightly less productive season statistically in 2019/20 then he did in 2018/19. Average .06 points per game less. 1 rebound less Per game and 1 more assist per game. It’s not like he had some nightmare season and got benched for rookies. League execs would also factor in the change of coach and types of looks and opportunities Buddy was getting in the Walton system compared to the Joerger system. You know analytics. The numbers and assumption on buddy can be made by the scouts and numbers guru guys. What they’ll discover is a player that has been consistent statistically, is an elite shooter (top 5 in the league) and a solid rebounder for his position. Teams have a lot to like about that and a hope that a better system under a better coach would make Buddy Hield even better.

he has value. He is tradable.

andy_sims
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November 24, 2020 7:44 am
Reply to  ArcoThunder

Jesus, I’ve never said that Hield isn’t tradeable. You keep saying how easy it will be to trade him, and I’ve said over and over that it won’t be that simple. The league knows that the Kings are over a barrel if they retain Hield and Bogi, and any trade offers we receive for either of them are going to reflect it. There would be no choice other than to play both of them a ton of minutes in order to increase their value.

This notion that the Kings would be in a position of strength and could dictate the return for either or both is ludicrous.

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November 23, 2020 4:06 pm
Reply to  ArcoThunder

I assume that Alvin Gentry will run the offense next season. His offense should help Buddy’s trade value, so I wouldn’t trade him immediately. Idk if waiting to trade BB8 would improve his trade value, so I’d understand trading him immediately or waiting to trade him.

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November 23, 2020 4:08 pm
Reply to  richie88

I’m not sure I buy into the whole idea that Buddy can increase his value. He is a well known player. It’s not like he is returning from a bad injury or is a rookie. Every NBA GM knows what he can do.

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 7:44 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Which is why I don’t believe this crap about him having no value and being un tradable at the moment.

that concept isn’t even real.

NeedTreeFitty
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November 23, 2020 2:17 pm

Let him walk. He doesn’t want to be here and the situation with him and buddy splitting minutes while taking minutes away from TH could turn toxic quickly. The assets we get in return in a year might not be worth the headache.

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November 23, 2020 2:18 pm

I think you have to match and then actively work on dealing both him AND Buddy. The long term cap is pretty clean, outside of that ugly Barnes deal. If Bagley forces you to make a decision, that’s actually a good thing.

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November 23, 2020 2:19 pm

Anyone else how shocked how valued Bogi is around the league? I had no idea…got to match him for that. Trade him next year.

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November 23, 2020 2:23 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

I’m not shocked. His playmaking and shooting make him valuable.

WillyTrill
November 23, 2020 2:40 pm

Let him walk… I think Bogi is a good player, but we all know the kings are going to lose a lot of games next year, whether or not he’s on the team. Let’s steer this ship towards a high pick in the 2021 draft. Full Steam Ahead!

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November 23, 2020 2:45 pm

Keep him. Seriously, it’s a decent contract for him. You keep good players on decent contracts. It’s that simple. All the talk of fit is nonsense at this point. Get valuable players under reasonable contracts and then make trades to construct the roster in a way that you want. Unless BB8 isn’t worth the contract…which it seems the market is saying he is…

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November 23, 2020 3:01 pm
Reply to  aplumley

It would be a decent contract if Hield wasn’t on the roster. Since you can’t just make another team take on Buddy’s deal, you have to assume that he’s going to be here for half-a-season, at minimum.

It’s way too much money to tie up on older players when your stated goal is to build with youth.

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November 23, 2020 3:17 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

The logic of not signing a player to a good contract because you have a different player on a bad contract just doesn’t make sense.

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November 23, 2020 3:23 pm
Reply to  aplumley

They’re essentially the same contract, so either Hield’s contract is also good, or both contracts are bad. Which is it?

I see shooters like Hield signing fatass contracts this week. On paper, Hield is a more valuable asset, apparently, than are athletically below-average combo guards with knee problems.

Hield will be moved eventually, and then you have the same problem: Why is Bogi taking minutes away from the rookie, when he’s not part of the long-term plan, and winning meaningless games doesn’t help going forward?

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November 23, 2020 3:27 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

No, theyre essentially not. One is more than the other. And the bigger one is attached to the lesser player. Hields contract isnt “bad”. it’s average and even has some enticing layers to it with a descending salary.

Keep the better player for less money. Trade the other guy.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:28 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Have you looked at Buddy’s extension? They aren’t essentially the same contract.

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November 23, 2020 3:24 pm
Reply to  aplumley

This is so perfect

BuffaloDiaspora
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November 23, 2020 3:31 pm
Reply to  aplumley

Buddy’s contract really isn’t that bad. A truly bad contract is untradeable without attaching other assets (see Harrison Barnes or John Wall for truly bad contracts)

But yes, given that the NBA is a salary cap league that offers little recourse to dispose of contractual obligations, a bad contract can indeed prevent you from signing a different player to a good contract.

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November 23, 2020 3:35 pm

Ok, so a bad contracts exist that are un tradable without attaching an asset to it. .

Buddy’s is not that.

Bogi’s wouldnt be that.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:41 pm

And a fair contract attached to a solid player can be very beneficial on the trade market, especially closer to the deadline. You take back a bloated short-term deal and a draft pick, for instance.

Buddy’s market is soft right now because that extension is kicking in. I’m not sure it’s a bad contract, but it isn’t a good one either. I think he’s still good enough that he could turn that into a better value later in the season.

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November 23, 2020 4:11 pm

Barnes’ contract isn’t even visible on the map where Wall’s contract can be found.

extra
November 23, 2020 2:49 pm

Match. Kings would be better off having both Buddy and Bogi available as trade assets rather than just Buddy. Also, I feel like Buddy is too much of a malcontent, which makes him bad for team chemistry and has depressed his trade value. Bogi might not be happy here, but I feel like he would be less likely to be a problem for team chemistry. Bogi seems more mature to me and that will only help his trade value.

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November 23, 2020 2:53 pm
Reply to  Otis

Wish Boogie luck, and glad he’s not coming back here!

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November 23, 2020 2:56 pm
Reply to  Otis

comment image

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November 23, 2020 3:38 pm
Reply to  Gregoryl

One down, Whiteside to go.

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November 23, 2020 3:05 pm
Reply to  Otis

Good for him. I hope he can pull things together, but Houston is still a mess and could go south pretty quick if Harden and Westbrook make a stink.

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November 23, 2020 9:04 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

if DMC is healthy, he and Wood are a decent fit together.

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November 23, 2020 3:24 pm
Reply to  Otis

Go get ’em, D. Wishing you the best of health.

dhackett
November 23, 2020 3:18 pm

Match. I’m fairly certain we can find a trade that makes everyone happy (since BB8 must consent to a trade for 1 yr). As stated, we need to be smart with the few assets we have. We can still explore trades for Buddy and let Tyrese learn from the both of them with limited minutes while McNair figures everything out. That being said I trust McNair to make the right decision at this juncture.

ohioplayrs
November 23, 2020 3:21 pm

Walk. BB8 over dribbles. Runs around in circles. I don’t know why we’re even worried about him. Buddy takes one dribble and the ball bounces off his foot. Bring in new blood. Let De’Aaron run the team.

Last edited 3 years ago by D Smith
ohioplayrs
November 23, 2020 3:23 pm

When is the 48 hours up?

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November 23, 2020 3:31 pm
Reply to  ohioplayrs

Tomorrow 9am PST

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November 23, 2020 3:31 pm

So by my rough math skills, if the Kings let Bogi walk, they will be sitting just under $100M in dedicated salary for the 2020-21 season. That is with all the current contracts plus Hali’s rookie scale. The only unknowns at this point are the two second round picks and the status of Kyle Guy. However, those deals won’t amount to much.

That all being said, it looks as though the Kings will have one of the lowest spending in the league this year if they let Bogi walk. For reference, the cap is at $109M with the tax line at $132M.

BuffaloDiaspora
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November 23, 2020 3:36 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

The cap and tax lines aren’t going to move much next year, though, and the team is going to be paying over $70M for Buddy, Barnes and Fox. Paying another $18M for Bogi puts it at ~$90M for 4 players that aren’t going to win you a championship.

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November 23, 2020 3:42 pm

Agreed, but that is assuming you keep all 4 of them.

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November 23, 2020 3:44 pm

Exactly.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 3:50 pm

Paying fair value for Bogi isn’t preventing you from winning a championship. That’s a non sequitur. Paying $20 million for Barnes hurts more, and $25 million to Hield, to some extent.

Sounds like we’re talking about hanging onto the more toxic assets and letting a fair-value asset go.

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November 23, 2020 3:57 pm
Reply to  Otis

Exactly, you don’t let a fair value contract/asset go because you have worse ones on the books. That’s bass ackwards.

NotAlwaysLogic
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November 23, 2020 4:33 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

!yltcaxE

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 7:47 pm
Reply to  Otis

Sounds that way to me too.

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November 23, 2020 8:51 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Good. They should operate at the salary floor, win 15 games, and sell anything that’s not nailed down this season. I want guys on 10-day contracts starting. I want them to call up g-leaguers because they only have 7 healthy bodies. I’m looking forward to Mark Jones and Doug Christie trying to figure out what to talk about when the kings are down by 30, and on the verge of a 12 game losing streak.

Im ok with that because that will put the kings in a position to draft a player that’s way better than Bogi. We should all be thinking what can the Kings do to obtain a superstar? The easiest thing is sucking ass prior to a stacked draft.

Henry
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November 24, 2020 12:11 am
Reply to  RORDOG

I want to rec this 1 million times. Bogi, Buddy, and Barnes ALL need to go. The question on the table now is Bogi. Not Buddy. Not Barnes. Let him walk, one down, two to go.

Hobby916
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November 24, 2020 5:15 am
Reply to  Adamsite

Did the Kings ever fulfill payment of the contracts to the construction companies for work on G1C and the surrounding areas? Maybe they stop spending money some guys and pay their bills? Haha, oh the Kings are so dysfunctional in so many aspects.

ManilaBayCleanerCrew
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November 23, 2020 3:47 pm

Let him walk. He needs the payday and we need the cap space and playtime for Haliburton. Also, trade Buddy before the season ends when his value is much better.

dhackett
November 23, 2020 4:00 pm

MatchMatchMatch

Last edited 3 years ago by dhackett
richie88
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November 23, 2020 4:07 pm
Reply to  dhackett

Your original post is on page 2.

dhackett
November 24, 2020 8:45 am
Reply to  richie88

Haha figured it out. Thanks tho

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November 23, 2020 4:07 pm

Easy choice, match it because then the Bogi jersey I bought is still relevant and current. It is a small win but I’ll take what I can get in 2020.

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November 23, 2020 4:15 pm
Reply to  L-Train3.1

This is easily the best keep-Bogie argument I’ve seen so far.

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November 23, 2020 4:15 pm

How come no one is asking that, given what’s been going on the past couple of weeks, does Bogi even want to stay in Sacramento?

I understand that if the Kings match, he’ll be playing for the Kings, but there is an awful lot of muddy water that’s gone under the bridge recently. I don’t think that he’s a sulker, but if he doesn’t want to be here, that’s another factor that lowers his value.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 4:18 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

They all love to be in Sacramento, haven’t you heard?

By the way, this argument was used a lot in the “we shouldn’t match IT’s deal” days.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 4:27 pm
Reply to  Otis

And I wonder if Bogi even really wants to go to Atlanta? I think you could sell him on the idea of matching and working with him to move him someplace more amenable.

Nothing like getting the money you want, and a place to play you like.

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November 23, 2020 5:20 pm
Reply to  Otis

I will say he is probably getting word from ATL that he is the starter. When it comes to Sac, new management my lead toward Buddy and they just got Hali. The writing is likely on the wall here that he isn’t part of the long term plan.

richie88
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November 23, 2020 10:38 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

I’d assume that neither Buddy nor BB8 are part of the long-term plan.

NotAlwaysLogic
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November 23, 2020 4:35 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

Who cares if he doesn’t want to be here. The FO needs to stop making decisions based on the players feelings. That hasn’t been working.

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November 23, 2020 7:51 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

If he didn’t want to be back in sac I’d assume that information would have been leaked by the Hawks or bogi’s agent or Bogi himself. If the whole world knew he didn’t want to return to sac then it would make the likelihood of them matching significantly less because of the optics of it all and what not.

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November 23, 2020 4:24 pm

I’m not matching for reasons I said yesterday.

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November 23, 2020 5:18 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

…but that was yesterday.

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November 23, 2020 10:03 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

And today’s today but I’m still not matching were it my decision.

Mike120
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November 23, 2020 4:49 pm

Put me in the match it camp. I like the guy, he’s coming into his prime, never controversial off court, and the contract is not out of line. Once you control his services, then you can trade for something. We’ve been shedding contracts with nothing coming back in return as of now. Something is better than nothing. If Haliburton is a monster stud, then letting Bogi or Buddy go will be a lot easier.

Katoki
November 23, 2020 4:58 pm

Match.
I don’t see what value financial flexibility brings the kings. If there is one thing obvious since the Philly trade is that there is little value brought to Sacramento through free agency. When you compare the contracts given to the free agents that arrived here and the Hawks offer, I think this Bogi contract is probably best worth value. If Bogi was playing for the Hawks and we could get him for this contract the majority would be thrilled.

I do have my hesitations how it will play out chemistry wise after last year. But that is the job of the coach and GM. If Bogi and Buddy want to be pouting, they also hurt themselves. I hope that with a shot blocker (Thon Maker) behind them, it is possible to play fox buddy, bogi and Bagley together, and reduce the pain on the defensive side. Bring Haliburton and Barnes, who shown a lot of leadership, of the bench. If they are all playing, frustrations hopefully will be less. If it doesn’t work out, the lottery pick will be better and you re-investigate trading them next summer or at any point they have high value. (which they will have with their scoring & 3point shooting).

If you can get trade value for Bogi now, I would also be OK with that. Maybe corner the hawks for a trade of Bjelly for Collins and Huerter.

What helps me confirm this would be the right the decision is imagining what another franchise would do in the same situation. I believe the good managed teams like heat or blazers would always match and so should we. Do not let him go for nothing. He is too good.

The kings need to be aggressive to compose a winning team. With the new GM I hope we break with 2 decades being too passive in trades and player movement.

Bbmuteman
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November 23, 2020 4:59 pm

I’d let Bogi leave and take a flyer on zhaire who just got stretched by detroit.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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November 23, 2020 5:18 pm
Reply to  Bbmuteman

There is probably a reason Zhaire was both traded and stretched within a few days. That is scraping the barrel.

Bbmuteman
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November 23, 2020 5:31 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

The poor guy almost died from an allergic reaction over a full year ago. He dropped a massive amount of weight and has had to rebuild his body physically. He was the 76ers version of our harry giles that didn’t get any playing time.

You literally don’t know what he has because he hasn’t played in forever. I figure he would come dirt cheap. He’s like a dollar lotto ticket.

Don’t get me wrong, I like bogi, but he doesn’t seem to want to be here.

Adamsite
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Nostradumbass 14
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November 23, 2020 5:35 pm
Reply to  Bbmuteman

I understand that, and I’m fine with taking a flyer on him, but I don’t think getting him is contingent on letting Bogi leave. If you think he may bring something, sign him, regardless of the backcourt depth.

Bbmuteman
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November 23, 2020 8:31 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

See, I’m of two minds about this bogi situation. On the one hand, I want the kings to match and extract as much value as we can get for him the next offseason if we can’t get him to waive his no trade clause.

Then the other part of me wants to let him go for a few reasons. He doesn’t seem to want to be here, and re-signing him adds back to the crowded backcourt with two potential malcontents. Bogi hasn’t shown the same kind of unprofessionalism that Hield has, but his tweet from a day ago doesn’t bode well.

Then in either case, the national narrative becomes lulz kangz. I just want the kings to take a page from presti in okc, but that stink keeps following the front office, even with new folks.

NorCalKingsFan
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November 23, 2020 9:10 pm
Reply to  Adamsite

Z. Smith would be competing with Guy and Ramsey for who should be the 5th guard off the bench (or on a 2way), not Buddy or Bogi or even James.

Bbmuteman
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November 24, 2020 3:17 am
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

I like the idea of z. Smith for the fact that he used to be known as a very versatile and good defensive guard. His measurables, weight excepted right now, would lead me to think he could guard 3s.

ajonez81
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November 23, 2020 5:18 pm

At first I wanted to keep him for trade value but I read a bunch of the other comments and it seems to me that we need to really embrace the tankathon ASAP IMO. Love Bogi but he hasn’t blown me away much at all, I WANT 2-WAY PLAYERS!!! End of story, I’m tired of not having good defensive players and I think Monte is with me. Let him walk.

KevinSalvadori
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November 23, 2020 6:02 pm

Match Bogi. Offer Buddy to ATL for Snell and one of Hunter, Reddish, or a lottery-protected first. Hope beyond hope they take it. Run a starting 5 of Holmes, Barnes, Snell, Fox, and Bogi, with heavy minutes for Bagley, Halliburton, Jeffries, and whoever comes from ATL (if not a pick). Try and deal Barnes, Joseph, and Snell this year for future assets. Ride out Bogi until next season, then deal him. Try and build around a starting 5 of Bagley, Hunter, Fox, Halliburton, and our 2021 pick. Hope for luck in the ’22 lottery and aim for progress to a contender that season with ’23 being the year the team fully arrives.

Last edited 3 years ago by KevinSalvadori
NinjaFetus
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November 23, 2020 6:22 pm

I like Bogi, but let him walk. Unless there’s info we don’t know, doesn’t look like there is a way to get any assets back for him leaving. That is on the previous front office.

OT: I love that in the last 2 days there are a couple articles here that have well over 200 comments, but on another unnamed site they’re struggling to get even 5-10 comments. Lol.

Otis
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November 23, 2020 6:38 pm
Reply to  NinjaFetus

Yeah, this has been fun, kind of like the good old days. And it’s also refreshing to debate this stuff with some optimism for the future.

Last edited 3 years ago by Otis
Dirkula
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November 23, 2020 7:12 pm
Reply to  Otis

€˜Tis the season!
I tend to tune out in the spring/summer just because the NBA is generally over during that time, (especially for we Kings fans)
…add in the weird pandemic year, a new site with a different layout that we were accustomed to since 2008, a new regime et al.
I suspect the level
of activity here is going to be steadily increasing and will be back to what we experienced previously once people get more accustomed to the site and the abbreviated season

ArcoThunder
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November 23, 2020 7:55 pm
Reply to  Dirkula

Werd. To your mother.

ForKingsandCountry
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November 24, 2020 2:01 pm
Reply to  Otis

There is something refreshing about simply arguing about basketball again and I do legitimately feel some optimism about this new front office. The draft was their first test and I thought they aced it. The next test will be this situation with Bogi and the rest of free agency. Regardless of what they do I think I have some level of trust that they’ve got a plan that they are trying to execute.

Mike120
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November 23, 2020 8:20 pm
Reply to  NinjaFetus

And sometimes it’s one guy posting multiple times back to back.

markdog333
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November 23, 2020 7:48 pm

I’m glad I am not a GM. I have been going back and forth on this one, but I am leaning against matching (60/40). I wonder if the cap space could be used to take on a bad contract for an asset if Presti hasn’t used all of those opportunities already.

Sir_tajj
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November 23, 2020 8:37 pm
Reply to  markdog333

Presti is still going to end up leading OKC to the playoffs with that salary dump team and next year, he’ll trade those salary dumps for more assets. Just watch. Idk why everyone is chasing the process or morey ball and no one ever talks about his strategy. This is without consideration to the fact that he is probably one of the best at finding talent in the draft.

richie88
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November 23, 2020 8:58 pm
Reply to  Sir_tajj

Following Presti’s strategy would be nice, but I don’t think the Kings accumulated enough talent to fully emulate his strategy.

Last edited 3 years ago by richie88
NorCalKingsFan
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November 23, 2020 9:18 pm
Reply to  richie88

Presti’s strategy is devoid of talent for the most part. His plan is to take on bad contracts in exchange for draft assets. Presti then finds his own talent, he doesn’t often trade away young talented players. He acquires and then jettisons overpaid players.

Its the kind of trade that Sacramento seems to be allergic to but most people here wish would happen since our cap space is generally meaningless. You don’t need any talent to pull it off, you just need some cap space and a team eager to dump contracts.

It’s so frustrating that this type of asset accumulation has never been taken advantage of here in Sac as it suits small-market teams.

richie88
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November 23, 2020 11:07 pm
Reply to  NorCalKingsFan

The hauls Presti got for PG13 & Westbrook are the most important assets that OKC received in its rebuild. The Kings could probably get a nice haul for Fox, but I doubt they’d get enough assets to = what OKC got.

TXKingsfan
November 23, 2020 8:14 pm

Just disappointing, we have signed NOBODY in free agency. I’ve seen a few mention it, is there a link to a story where Monte said this is a re-build year?

richie88
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November 23, 2020 8:35 pm
Reply to  TXKingsfan

I don’t think Monte’s officially said this is a rebuilding year, but it’s obvious to me that the Kings will be 1 of the 3 worst teams in the West. Additionally, next year’s draft is supposedly strong, so tanking would make plenty of sense (the only thing that’d discourage it is that the lottery system the NBA enacted fairly recently makes tanking harder).

RAP87
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November 23, 2020 8:53 pm

Saw a post on social media about Bogdan still wearing a Kings gear(I think) and apparently working out with Hassan Whiteside..

Take it as it is but man I just can’t fathom having Whiteside on the Kings again.

Last edited 3 years ago by RAP87
Sir_tajj
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November 23, 2020 9:50 pm
Reply to  RAP87

I don’t think it’s all that bad. If we get him at the minimum for a year, we could trade him at the deadline for whatever we can get or let him walk at the end of the year. I have my doubts about Bagley playing full season. So I don’t think he’d really be taking minutes from the young guys. If we kept Giles, then it would be a different story. He’s not helping us win anything anyways.

markdog333
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November 24, 2020 5:37 am
Reply to  Sir_tajj

I have seen some comments which to me are overreactions to the possibility of signing Whiteside. Is it animosity towards Whiteside from his time as a King, or is it just a general dislike for his style of play?

Hobby916
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November 24, 2020 5:18 am

Please not for the Kings, please note for the Kings…

Bluejohn
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November 24, 2020 12:12 am

Such a freaking pleasure to follow this thread. My first reaction, my gut says let him walk. I love Bogi, he’s maybe the only right thing Vlade ever did as GM. I also want to give to props to andy_sims, ArcoThunder and Otis (for making the issues so clear as always).

I’ve always felt that Bogi’s NBA play hasn’t lived up expectations. In many ways both he and Luka’s similar experiences and recognition in Europe led me to expect more from Bogi. Nevertheless Bogi is better than a replacement player…..but……he’s not Luka.

I get both sides of the argument and have changed my mind several times as I navigated my way through this thread. I’m not pissed at Bogi, I think his main issue was getting paid and one team or another is going to make sure he is (and good for him). Is ATL really going to that much better than playing for the Kings?

Rather than reiterating all the major points that have been made so well in the thread I’m simply going to say that I find the reasons for letting him walk to be slightly more compelling.

EastCoastKingsFan
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November 24, 2020 5:40 am
Reply to  Bluejohn

I FINALLY created my TKH account just to comment that I’m so happy to have the comments this active again. Since we’ve switched from the old website I feel like we haven’t had a comments section with this much action.

P.S. Loved when I checked the old site and saw variations of 0-3 comments on each article. Glad you guys got this up and running!

ArcoThunder
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November 24, 2020 5:58 am
Reply to  Bluejohn

I can appreciate that. Thanks for the shout out.

Just Woke up, couldnt sleep. had visions of bogi bouncing in my head.

no new news yet.

14yearsandcounting
November 24, 2020 7:29 am

You have to match, even if you only get a late first round pick at the deadline, still better than letting him walk for nothing.

nonstripedzebra
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November 24, 2020 7:54 am

I have summarized my thoughts I think more on past threads than this one but I think I let Bogi walk. As many have mentioned its a tough one, with ramifications that are murky on either end. That said I think if you parse out the likely chain of reactions that are projected on either side of this decision, I find myself with more assurance on passing at this moment.

Is Bogi worth this deal my market standards yes, and is he possibly moveable in a year or twos time, I would say so. The question I think many though might be under-appreciating is the quality of return for such an asset and that our commitments financially will overlap with what will be our key years with Fox.

I think deals for both Bogi and Buddy put you in a untenable restriction that will overlap at least in part with Fox’s max before one or both are moved. And any deal for either I expect will be predicated on absorbing some fairly bad financial commitments in return, albeit with a hopeful asset.

The point is that room in our cap isnt a likely outcome even in our ability to trade. And the assets garnered might be a boost to building around fox, but I dont think that trade off will likely warrant the expenses committed to have that opportunity. This would be less an issue with Bogi, but 17 million plus isnt moved with some money coming back beyond expirings or players/assets aligned with our timeline.

And if you assume as I do either wont be realistically moveable in year one, a subsequent trade I expect will be reliant on taking back your 10 to 14 million dollar guys for maybe a year less of commitment than Bogi and Buddy, but are in essence salary dumps. Or for a player making 18 or so who isnt a comforting contract as is, and likely doesnt move the needle either.

Sure in these examples, a trade probably comes with a late first, possibly something a little richer, but considering our lack of room movability and capable trade suitors, might be hard to come by. And it doesn’t really change I think our competitive standing.

And this is all under the position that these guys would be moveable within a years time which in itself has ample reasons to doubt.

If thats the case, I think it wiser to be explicit and not tongue tied in these matters. If this team is aligning to fox, free up the cap, run out your young-ins and eat bad money on your cap solely for richer assets. Or put yourself in a cap window where the clear needs can be addressed when the clock for Fox is louder. Have space to absorb another teams hasty poor signing in time, but without the muck of other cap commitments in exchange. Being more stark with this timetable for Fox, and allowing more options I think likely grant collectively a better haul in time or at least one that isn’t all that different. than a would be Bogi/Buddy deal.

Last edited 3 years ago by nonstripedzebra
Hobby916
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November 24, 2020 8:05 am

So if the Kings match the offer from ATL, is there a path where they could then trade Bogi to Milwaukee (with Bogi’s permission)?

markdog333
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November 24, 2020 12:41 pm
Reply to  Hobby916

I am not the expert here, but from what I have gathered from this thread…

Yes, Bogi would need to approve any trades in the first year of his contract. Being traded would trigger the trade kicker pushing the value of the contract up towards $21M/year. Bogi could potentially wave this kicker.

Last edited 3 years ago by markdog333

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