Yesterday I was angry. Today I am empty.
I’m running out of give-a-shits for this team. The Sacramento Kings were utterly embarrassing for the second game in a row. Unprepared, uninspired, and incapable of rising to the moment.
And what was the response from Luke Walton in his post-game presser? He’ll have to watch the tape. But don’t worry, he remains confident in the Kings!
At least somebody is still confident in this squad.
Luke Walton had 4.5 months to watch tape and be ready for the opponents he would face in the bubble. His team is being run off the floor. Walton says Orlando just had one of those nights where they couldn’t miss. And sure, those happen in the NBA, but they happen a lot more if your defense is incapable of guarding the other team.
I’m tired of the lack of accountability. I want someone to come out and say this isn’t ok. Walton, Vlade Divac, Vivek Ranadive, SOMEBODY. Anybody. Just acknowledge how embarrassing this is for this franchise that likes to pretend it’s smarter than everyone else.
I don’t understand how Kings ownership can watch this team and have any faith that things are on the right track. I don’t know how they can watch this and think it makes sense to run it back another year. Because right now, I don’t see the way out. I don’t see how this team improves next season as the Western Conference gets harder. De’Aaron Fox is a legitimate star in the making, Buddy Hield is one of the league’s best shooters, and yet the team hasn’t figured out how to optimize those two.
Well, let me back up. Dave Joerger figured out how to optimize those two, and was dismissed for his troubles. Vlade’s friend, who he hired without interviewing any other candidates, can’t figure out how to optimize Fox and Buddy.
Our hope for the future is that the Kings navigate free agency successfully (Vlade’s best signings are Bjelica and Holmes, but there are a litany of expensive misses on the ledger), draft well (Vlade has had one good draft pick in his tenure, De’Aaron Fox), and that Walton finally watches enough tape to figure out how to coach in the NBA. That doesn’t inspire hope for Kings fans.
So I ask, Vivek, when is it enough?
So are you saying the Kings need to clear the FO cache to resolve the problems?
Have you tried turning the franchise off and turning it back on again?
Already tried it with the fans. Haven’t found the on switch yet, though
It was enough 5 years ago. Now? Who the hell even cares anymore.
I had renewed interest in watching this team at the end of the 2018-19 season. Once Joerger was fired, I became apathetic and just hope one day everything in the higher ups will get blown up and restarted.
Yeah the Joerger firing turned my apathy meter up to 11 coming into this season. Firing your most successful coach in a decade with a ton of excitement brewing is just so stupid I can’t believe it actually happened.
Prematurely firing Mike Malone seemingly taught them nothing.
Speaking of caring, I am actually still pretty excited to watch tomorrow’s game …
.
.
.
.
but only because I get to watch Luka play on the Kings’ broadcast!
I want him to absolutely destroy the Kings tomorrow.
LD the maverick is coming to wreak havoc.
The historical inertia of sports fandom is a powerful force, but it is not unbreakable.
Can you imagine rooting for a team that went at least .500? Not a great team or championship contenders, just middle of the pack compared to the rest of the league. Man that would be so great.
It’s the Kangz scale of achievement. Simply being in the vicinity of the 8th seed is seen as an accomplishment and actually making the playoffs might lead this organization to throw a parade. Kings media gets legitimately excited that we aren’t the worst team in the league as if that is the goal every year.
Kings media have been living off selling day old donuts and gutter oil for the past 15 years so when they are able to hawk anything other than dregs, it feels like a feast.
For many organizations, the ideal is to build for a championship. If the Kings get to .500, they’ll put a banner in the arena. The losers mentality has been systemic with this organization for over a decade now. The only thing that will change that is an Owner who cares. I am not sure Vivek does.
I have no idea why, but when I read this comment, first thing that popped into my mind was Kevin Martin and how much I enjoyed rooting for him.
The one thing I’m beginning to question is Fox really a “legitimate star in the making?” He’s now completed 3 years. How many high draft picks become stars after their 3rd season? I don’t think he’s a John Wall/Kyrie Irving/Chris Paul type star in the making. I think we are more on the path of a Mike Conley/Goran Dragic/Jamal Murry type “star.” That means he’s a good player, but not a cornerstone player. Is it possible the Kings still don’t have their “star?”
He would likely look even more like a star if he were the second best player on the team right now … yet another “thanks Vlade” moment for not being able to find out for sure!
Nobody is untradeable.
Indeed. Fox gets a lot of love around here, including by me.
That said, I have no problem with him being gone tomorrow if the move is made with the hands of a competent FO.
It would have to be an extremely compelling deal, even if you think he’s got Conley upside (Conley was really good for a long time).
Oh yeah, it would absolutely have to be a godfather offer. I’d put it this way, I wouldn’t be looking to move him. But I could be convinced. Like if the Knicks, who are desperate for a PG, wanted to give me their unprotected 1sts in 2021 & 2022 (which they could do because they have other picks coming in) plus Robinson and, not that he has much value, Ntilikina, then I might bite.
Have to agree 100 percent. Fox is not a franchise player. Fox is not a game changer. Fox can have a nice career. But, Fox has not shown he could put a team on his back consistently against good teams or make those around him better. No one is untouchable on this team for that reason. I would blow this team up from top to bottom. Bring in a experienced and successful GM: Bird/Hinkie, etc. Have the GM scout for the best possible coach. Trade away anyone and everyone for picks in 2021-22. Both years are shaping up to be fantastic drafts. If Vivek really cares about the Kings organization. If he really wants this team to build something special for years to come,it takes a few years of sacrifice. No shortcuts. That’s what Vlade/Vivek have been doing for years. Obviously, It’s working(LOL) Memphis, Atlanta, and Dallas all had some lean years. Now, they’re all back on the upswing. Those aforementioned teams are doing things the right way.
I want to push back on this a bit. I wrote this in my own article today, but I think we often misuse “star” to mean “transcendent player.”
DeAaron is a star – I think he makes the players around him better (he certainly made Buddy look amazing last year with a coaching staff that utilized them both well!), and in a system that optimizes his speed, allows him to play with player as fast as he is, and with secondary creators and a defense to back him up, I have no doubt that he could be the best player on a good playoff team.
But DeAaron is not a transcendent player – he’s not a LeBron-type player who will drag a bad team to the playoffs. He can’t hide a bad coach. We see plenty of those types of players find great success in the NBA thanks to smart organizations, but… unfortunately, that isn’t Sacramento.
I don’t think he could be the best player on a consistent playoff team. Maybe a 1b along with the right 1a and at least a couple 2s. The point being, the I don’t think the Kings have THE GUY (not Kyle) yet, and they need to be doing everything they can to acquire THE GUY. I’m not saying they should trade Fox. Just that they shouldn’t be at a place where they’re making personnel decisions based him as a locked in centerpiece.
You nailed it. If a competent GM decided to trade Fox, I wouldn’t be against it.
Bingo. Fox is a star, sure.
but he isn’t Batman, he’s Robin.
This fanbase, like many others, overvalues its own players. Happens again and again and nobody is learning. It’s nice to put up gaudy stats on a bad franchise. But also quite meaningless.
We need to stop overvaluing our own players and start recognizing that DaQuan Jeffries is the savior and future of the franchise!
What about the great Vlade find Alex Len?
That surprises me a bit – I don’t think Fox is the best player on a championship team.
But he has a ceiling around Wall’s and with competent management and a good supporting cast – he could certainly be the star of a consistent playoff team in my mind.
Maybe. I mean you have to consider that I think Wall is pretty significantly overrated. He was certainly the person that got the most press on those decent Wizards teams, but I don’t think he was necessarily their best player. And I certainly wouldn’t put him on a tier of his own. But sure, you give Fox another guy that is at least on his level and a third that is an elite two-way role player, then sure, a Fox “lead” team can make the playoffs reasonably regularly. So, like Wall, I don’t think he’s a guy you can use as a tent pole and just try to backfill with good role players.
I should say, I also like Fox more than Wall. I don’t think Fox will ever pass or defend quite as well as peak Wall, but his shot selection is significantly better. I think Wall’s gunner tendencies actually held his teams back. That’s not to say he was a net negative by any stretch, just that they weren’t as good as they could have been. I mean, Wall is a guy that has a .519 career TS% and who, in his absolute most efficient scoring season, put up the same mark as Spencer Dinwiddie this year.
All that said, if we are to say Fox is Wall, the question remains where are Beal and Porter going to come from? I’m all for keeping Fox. Despite this conversation, I like him. I just don’t think the team should be acting and making decisions based on the idea that he’s a #1 option on an ambitious team.
Yeah, I think it’s fair to say Wall may have been a bit overrated. But he was still a heck of a player and I think was pretty easily the best player on a Wizards team that won 49 games and was a perennial playoff team.
And to be fair to Wall, those weren’t great teams. Decent starting lineup, but some pretty poor benches.
Grunfield was the anti-Presti. Also got three top picks (admittedly in weaker drafts), but made a series of poor choices to minimize overall performance.
I was a regular Wizards game attendee for Wall’s prime. He was a beast. Even though he never developed much of a shot, he was elite (like best in the league for a stretch, if I recall correctly) at creating easy 3 pointers for others. He was one of those guys who you could build an offense around. Saying he needed Porter to be effective is really not accurate – he won a playoff series while Porter looked like he would never make it in the league.
Fox will never be as physical going to the hoop as Wall was, and his defense isn’t as promising. But he’s a better shooter and it’s reasonable to hope Fox will have almost as much an impact.
Good point – he’s been an awkward player right on the fringes of the league changing to a shooting league (less odd version of Rose).
He was a beast. Not a superstar. But as a Kings fan, it’s not fair to pin all of our hopes on Fox. If he becomes another Wall, that would be a huge win for us. But he’s also not going to carry us to the WCF on his own the way a Leonard or LeBron might be able to.
We are going to need to get him significant support.
Of course. But we all know the Kings are incompetent and will never get him that support, so I find these discussions over the minutiae of specific players’ performance more interesting.
He was absolutely elite at creating open outside shots for teammates. And absolutely a good defender. And absolutely needed to shave at least 5 terrible contested shots per game off his script. He had a bad habit of trying to “Alpha Dog” games and shooting his team out of contention. He was the best player in the Hawks series that season then shot the team out of the majority of the Boston games.
And Wall’s team absolutely needed Porter to be effective. A high efficiency, low-volume two-way wing is absolutely vital for a team with two high usage ball-handlers. Without him Wall certainly would have still gotten his numbers but the team wouldn’t have seen as much success.
This only makes any sense if you are using “Porter” as a stand in for a 3 & D role player. Porter was a total nonfactor from 2013-2015 when the Wizards went to the second round each year. They did have Ariza and Paul Pierce in those years, but you have the causation backwards if you think those guys made Wall special.
Those 2013-15 Wizards teams wouldn’t have made the playoffs in the West. Then or now. The 2016-17 team is the only one that likely would have.
Fun fact (because I was curious, but obviously we can’t really straight compare):
2014-15 Wizards
SRS 0.14 – Would have ranked 11th in the west.
Net Rtg +.7 – would have ranked 10th in the west.
2013-14 Wizards
SRS 0.48 – 11th in west
Net RTG +1.4 – 11th in west
(1) The 14-15 Wizards’ net rating was within 0.2 of the 8th seeded Pelicans that year and the Wizards went 2-0 against the Pels. So it’s not like the Wizards would not have been in thick of the West playoff hunt. (2) I didn’t say anything about the Wizards competitiveness in the West – my observation was just that Wall was really freaking good for a few years. (3) I can assume you want to shift the focus to 2016-17 because Porter was finally playing well that year. But they were many other differences between the ’14 and ’17 Wizards, including the fact that Beal made a substantial leap to NBA star in that span.
So no, Wall didn’t “need” Porter to be a great NBA player by any stretch. He, like any other star not in the prime LeBron category, needed high level talent around him for his team to be consistently successful.
No, I’m focused on 2016-17 because that’s the year the Wizards were a legitimately good team that would likely have made the playoffs in either conference. The other teams, IMO, wouldn’t have reached the threshold of “consistent playoff teams” in the West. And since that’s what we’re discussing, that’s what I’m talking about.
The overall point is that Fox becoming a Wall-level performer is not good enough to make the Kings a consistent playoff team as the clear best player on the team. IMO, the 2013-15 Wizards were not good enough to be a consistent playoff team in the West (then or now). It wasn’t until Wall was no longer the clear best player on the team (because of Beal’s leap and Porter’s break out. No, I’m not saying Porter was at Wall’s level.) that the Wizards played at a level that would have made them consistent playoff teams in the West. As such, I believe the Kings need at least another player near, at, or above Fox’s level to reach that standard. Assuming the West doesn’t go completely in the tank, of course.
He could… if he played in the East
Well said Bryant
Yeah, he may never be LeBron or Leonard.
But there’s no reason he can’t be a Lowry, Wall, or IT. Both of whom have led teams to the ECF (even if we give Leonard credit for the championship).
Yes, the goal is to win a ring, which might be tough if your best player is Lowry, Wall, or IT. However, that’s nothing to sneeze at and gives you a good base to attract a higher caliber player.
Jebuus, when have Kings prospects reached their projected ceilings?
And how much more should we lower our expectations?
He COULD be Wall? Halle-fucking-lujah!
It’s as Stockholm syndromish as Bagley can still become a useful NBA player. No shit?
No offense to you intended. Just general frustration.
For what it’s worth – I don’t think development has been our worst problem.
Most players make enough and have enough tools at their disposal, they don’t rely on teams for development. And the Kings have invested plenty in their training staff.
And I think we would struggle to name many players who left without developing here and who suddenly broke out and developed with another team.
Maybe Whiteside, but he was cut by multiple franchises and played overseas as he needed to get his head on straight (and arguably never fully did). But even success stories like IT developed a lot here and then kept developing after he they left.
Our bigger issue is lack of a coherent system, overall team / talent level, poor coaching, etc. We have also drafted poorly and keep trying to blame player development, when the real issue with guys like Jimmer, Robinson, BMac, Nik, etc. wasn’t poor development, it was poor talent evaluation in the first place.
Lotta truth in here Junkie. The Kings biggest issue I keep seeing is they diminish the value of all assets due to poor management.
That’ll never cut it, no matter how you slice it.
While the Kings have been a lottery fixture, they have with amazing skill avoided drafting with the exception of Fox NBA talent. Here is the question I’d love to know, say Phoenix had drafted Fox with the pick before the Kings, who would the front office have drafted instead?
Let’s not forget that LeBron couldn’t get the lakers to the playoffs last year under Walton.
i am not saying that Fox is a transcendent player, but with him could definitely have a Toronto like team, a Boston like team when IT was there. There are plenty of teams without LeBron or a transcendent player that I’ll take in a heart beat.
The main problem right now is not the players. It is Luke Walton, Vlade Divac and Vivek Ranadive. The first two need to be gone ASAP, they do not belong anywhere close to the tiles they have with this organization. Not sure anything can be done about the latter.
Once that is solved I am willing to start evaluating whether Fox is worth keeping around. Trade everyone you say? Who is going to do the trading? Who is going to return value knowing they can easily fleece Vlade of Fox and a couple of first round picks in exchange for some cash considerations?
I think you hit the nail on the head.
At least ACKNOWLEDGE that something isn’t working. Obviously, we all want Vlade (and possibly Luke) fired. However; the first step is acknowledgment, just like an addiction.
Admit something is wrong and then figure out a way to fix it. If you say that something is wrong and don’t fire Vlade due to COVID and financial reasons, I understand. At least say it isn’t working and restructure the organizational hierarchy.
The problem seems to be that Vivek and co. think they are on the right path, or have acted as such. They act as if they are smarter than the other 29 teams. In reality, they have proven the opposite.
Admit that something is wrong and move forward.
Remember when local shills thought this was stupid? Good times.
Remember when the local shills acted like this didnt even happen and and since it didnt happen they didnt have to address it. Then COVID made it all easier for them to brush aside?
Didn’t Carmichael Dave come on that-one-old-site’s forums and had a back and forth between several commenters because he didn’t like that we were doing it?
He absolutely did. And outside of a report on KOVR before the sign went up not one TV or radio station mentioned it.
Carmichael Dave is laughable
Uh-oh. Did the Kings change their name, just like the Washington Football Team did?
Well anyway, this Sacramento Basketball Team truly is offensive to watch!
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
It won’t be enough for Vivek until the attending fans turn on the team and owner like the Knicks fans did- all the digital ink spilled by cynical blog bois isn’t going to change a thing. Browns fans have also shown a path- show up with brown bags over head and all that.
You’re right. As soon as you figure out how to boycott games where fans can’t attend I’m all in.
Who gets to be on the screen next game (I think it’s considered our home game)? I implore those people to wear bags over their heads, or hold up SOS signs.
Custom Kings Luka jersey’s would be poignant. I know it aint going to happen but a boy can dream.
If the Kings tech/SM team was worth its salt, the virtual fans would start the boycott!
Or toast their koolaid and drop dead mid game.
I kind of like this idea.
First annual TKH night? Everyone shows up in a Luka jersey with a paper bag to wear over their head.
It’s brilliant because even if the front office doesn’t get the BAGley reference, they’ll surely get the Luka reference.
If I can figure out how to simultaneously boycott and show up I’m in.
I really enjoy going to games, but try my best to spend as little $$ as possible once in the building.
Your Sacramento Kings!
I’d like to kick the front office in the Who-Ha.
I’m rooting for the Blazers in the bubble because I legitimately, truly just don’t care at all about the Kings right now. My most basic interest in watching the game yesterday was 1) background noise while I cleaned and 2) simple curiosity after not seeing basketball for almost five months. I only looked up at the screen a few times, but every time I did, seemed like they were down another ten points.
I mean, imagine how some of these players feel. To be brought into a bubble in Florida in the summertime as that state is not the GLOBAL epicenter of a deadly pandemic without your friends or family, only to get completely embarrassed on TV day in and day out. I haven’t watched all of the bubble games, but has any other team even had a blowout? The games I’ve seen have all been at least somewhat competitive.
I’m thinking Dallas and PDX. Between the two teams they nearly make up a full roster of coulda/shoulda Kings.
Lillard, CJ, Collins, Whiteside, Trent Jr., Luka, Curry, Jackson, WCS. There’s an 8 man rotation right there that is better than our current 8 man rotation.
The only reason I’m not insane is because I’m also a fan of the Savage Speeders, who more than make up for my Kings disappointments.
I’m just happy I can feel good trying to jump into hockey now. I will fight anyone who says that Seattle Kraken isn’t an awesome name for a sports team.
RELEASE THE KRAKEN!
That IS a great name.
I was looking forward to the Sacramento MLS team, but unfortunately that’s postponed. I’m sure they can’t be any more incompetent than the Kings, so I don’t anticipate being heart-broken by their on field performance.
Same here. My Hazers dropped the ball a bit lately, but compared with the Kings they are holding up just fine.
I seem to remember Vlade announcing the intention to step down or be evaluated after three full years or something like that. Sorry, can´t remember the exact quote. What happened to that? Are we to believe he is happy with the teams performance and its results or did he straight up lie to us and never intended to be held accountable?
I can´t belive I still care.
Last year’s progress under Joerger was his Mission Accomplished moment, if I recall correct. Peaches preached that truth the faithful.
I recorded the game to watch later as I was putting up a fence in my backyard. Started the game and knew right away it wasn’t going to be good. Fortunately I saw the final score while picking up sushi for dinner and didn’t watch the rest of the game. If we can’t beat the Spurs & Magic, we have no chance of anything. It’s like my golf game. Mostly terrible but something good happens once and a while to keep me engaged. I was really hoping for the Kings to make some noise and have a chance with the shortened season. I may have lost all hope for this year and it doesn’t look great going into next year. Come on KINGS!!!! Give us something to be happy about! Here’s to hoping. GO KINGS.
Building a fence on a 100 degree day or watching some Kings basketball in a nice air-conditioned house? Tough call.
It’s a beautiful 63 degrees with a slight breeze up in Humboldt!!!
No matter the weather, I would also choose fence-building.
Hmmm…..I’m on the fence…
I wish I had any confidence in the organization to refuse to blindly stumble into next season with this coach/FO. Obviously I don´t. They will once again embarrass themselves by making excuses (maybe Bagley will be healthy and…good?) and have yet another horrible season. After all, they only fire somewhat successful coaches. Man I am so disgusted by this.
Even if Bagley turned out to be good and healthy most of next season, I really don’t think he makes a dent on the overall quality of the team. Even when healthy, he wasn’t beating out the likes of Nemanja and Holmes in the rotation.
Just think about that, the Kings are starting two guys who have been bench role players before they came to Sac. As much as I like and root for Nemaja and Holmes, they are bench players on a playoff team. That alone should tell us bout the poor makeup of this team.
And for Phoenix and Minnesota, no less.
Vivek is a moron and, Vlade is a bigger moron, and Luke is the biggest moron of the bunch. I give up.
I think they’re all equally moronic, but here’s a lineup from grande to venti to trenta, to figure out who is the biggest.
Vivek – 5’6.5″
Walton – 6’8″
Vlade – 7’1″
Thanks for including that link to the presser. That is over 7 minutes worth of words and he managed to say nothing of substance whatsoever. “We´re going to have six more opportunities”??? Wow. How can anybody in the front office have any confidence in this coach?
You’ve seen pressers by Vlade? It’s the same level, with a heavy accent. No coherent, deep basketball thought between the both of them.
As to “watching the tape…
When Divac and Walton are finally fired, I will review that video like Kevin Costner in JFK:
“Back, and to irrelevance. Back, and to irrelevance. Baaaaaack, and to irrelevance.”
I would like to say a big thank you to Richard for sticking his neck out with his SacBee article.
We’ve lacked checks and balances from our LoL local sports media, especially on the TV side, which is beyond embarrassing. For years, Grant actually created both fans AND “media” (Matt George) who don’t know how to process criticism. Even worse, they proudly expect their denouncement of criticism to be the norm, and in some ways, it is.
It’s left us with a decades old sports environment that lacks accountability.
So Richard….. THANK YOU.
Whether or not I agree with your article isn’t the point, at all.
That article by Richard is fantastic and I’m glad the Bee let him publish it. You don’t see that kind of critique by local media very often
Everyone should read THIS article by Richard
Hit the nail on the head. Agreed.
Eh. I got luckiy because I was sleeping when the game was on. Clearly, I was a rarity.
Ownership that doesn’t get it (or at least a managing partner), a GM that doesn’t get it, a head coach that probably doesn’t get it.
There’s not much reason to be confident about this organization moving ahead, but there’s no reason to believe anything will change anytime soon.
It’s their decision to do this, but until it gets really bad I doubt much changes. Especially if money is an issue.
You were not a rarity at all. Most of the Kings players and coaches were sleeping as well.
I was talking about the fans, you Dutch dinkus!
I don’t know what it’s going to take for ownership to make changes. I mean, at the moment, Kings games are being played in empty stadiums.
Seriously. F these guys. Vivek has set up an organization that’s rotten to the core. Fucked up on all levels.
it’s simply disgusting that one man-Vivek and his ego can keep the Kings in Shitsville forever.
saw it and hated him from the get go. Didn’t buy into giving him a chance. And sooooooo glad on KH I don’t have to hear the irrational bullshit-don’t be negative take. And the only good thing-No Grant.
If money was no object for our fearless leader, I think Vlade/Luke are gone after this season. Unfortunately, Vivek’s biggest investment and its surround shipping district are sitting empty and bleeding money. Also unfortunately, Vivek would still be making the decision, so it would likely be some ex-MySpace exec as GM and Shaq as coach.
Uh oh. I hope Vivek didn’t read your comment or he might promote Tom to his “TOP 8” of potential GM candidates.
Now THERE’S a photo I haven’t seen in like 15 years.
Did you unfriend him?
Like Vlade, Tom is not averse to taking pictures in front of white boards…
In middle school when Myspace was popular, I remember one of my classmates would always say “Tom’s tight!” whenever someone started talking smack about Tom.
I miss the innocent days of Myspace (although maybe not some of the ugly layouts).
I remember getting a personal message out of the blue from someone I didn’t know who would become my GF in my Boston days.
And also getting a personal message out of the blue from someone asking me to join their band, and then going on to play music with them at cool venues in New York.
It was crazy to me that you could meet people in real life straight out of the internet! …as if they were generated by a computer!
…and then I met Klam in real life, and I was surprised that he did not look like George Karl staring upwards with annoyance! 😛
I have zoomed in on that photo so many times… Do we think Vlade has ever opened that extremely pristine Kings Scouting Manual on his desk? Has it since been burned and re-written after that draft or are they sticking with the process that netted them Bagley over Doncic with no tradedown?
Its not the losing its the unwillingness to compete
Who knows how good Fox is but say the Kings picked Luka would be be capable of making playing well with this team? It gets hard when you look at teams like the Blazers, when there are 3 players in there rotation that the Kings could have drafted or they traded.
Not only that but I have zero faith that this front office can evaluate talent in the draft or have the creativity to make a trade to you get talent for the roster
They keep asking us to have faith. Well, what’s faith without works?
“Pie Sacto Domine…(thud)
Dona Eis Kangziem…(thud)”
We need an INQUISITION into this front office!
I have a feeling there will be nun.
It’s not easy to kick the habit.
WHOOOPI!!!!!!!!
Comes from too many years of Conventional thinking.
Carmichael Dave called on Vlade to live up to his word and step down this morning so that’s interesting. He used a very round-about way to get there and tried to do in the nicest way possible but the message was pretty clear. They also gave Blake and THK a shout out in making their point which was cool.
I think it’s time to consider the possibility that ownership’s goal was never to win games. I’ve always struggled to understand how a man like Vivek would continue to employee a failure like Vlade. The only plausible explanation I can think of is that the business side determined the team is more profitable when they sabotage themselves by not investing in basketball operations. It’s like those venture capital companies that buy like Sports Illustrated, and then get rid of everything that made Sports Illustrated great to paradoxically improve the bottom line. The Kings are the “10 times people made us go LOL!!” of the NBA. The only way to change that is to stop clicking on the clickbait.
Then as was said in another thread, why didn’t they pick Luka? He was clearly the better pick from a marketing perspective. They couldn’t even get that right.
That being said, I really do think the NBA looks at Vivek and sees $$$$$$$. As a owner of color with huge influence in India, the league is printing money because of his admittance into the club. He also gives them an uptick on the diversity index. I’m not trying to play politics here, but I think his background is the reason the ownership group decided to make him the managing partner. It was wise from a business perspective, but makes you wonder how the ownership group views the basketball side of things.
I think the Kings willingness to pay Bogi and extend Fox this offseason will be the writing on the wall of the team’s resolve. Money or basketball?
I don’t necessarily think they intentionally draft bad basketball players. I think they put budget constraints on the operations side that lead to bad outcomes. I agree though that Bogi is a good test case for this theory.
I wouldn’t say that completely…but I truly believe they may have been trying to tank the bubble. It gives a better draft pick (asset) and gives the organization an excuse for not having success this year (and next year).
If you’re a playoff team this year, next year is expected to make a jump. If you’re not a playoff team this, any sort of functional ability next year is seen as improvement. It gives the organization lowered expectations to easily exceed.
I also think it’s clear Vivek wants to run the Kings in a similar way to the Warriors and it shows. Let’s get Barnes, Hield can be “Curry,” and hire Walton. The problem is, the Warriors success cannot be replicated. Curry was on a sweetheart deal due to the injuries. They hit on multiple draft picks that hasn’t happened in Sacramento. The economic dynamics in Sacramento is different than the Bay Area. Free Agents aren’t signing up to own Tech Companies in Sacramento. I love Sacramento and we have our own selling points, but the game plan has to be different than Golden State.
Vivek is star-struck by Vlade… I honestly think that’s 90% of it.
Not so much star struck, but Vivek used Vlade’s standing in the Sacto community to buy time and cover when things were turning for the worse.
Vlade’s popularity, local relationship network, etc bought Vivek more time after the cracks started to form between him and the fans/local media, and probably the minority ownership group too but I am just guessing on that front.
The problem Vivek is having now is that Vlade’s luster can only shine on (shield) Vivek for so long. At some point Vlade will be judged by the fans/local media solely on the merits and that time is crashing into the G1C like a tsunami right now!
I think Vivek will cut bait sooner than many are predicting because Vlade is starting to pull Vivek down.
Yeah I don’t really buy the star stuck stuff. I do see that Vivek cares about celebrity status. I just don’t think that Vlade’s celebrity status is enough to render Vivek incapable of seeing Vlade’s incompetence.
Bottom line: if winning was paramount, then Vlade would never have been hired, and he certainly wouldn’t still have a job. That makes me think their motives are profit driven, and losing is cheaper than winning.
I do think that Vivek is trying to win – winning is a great way to generate revenue. And frankly, the organization has not been cheap so far. They have spent money on FO, coaches, and players – just the wrong ones.
And if you only cared about money – the Doncic pick would be a no-brainer in a vacuum.
I think the sader reality is that there are a lot of big egos in our organization and a lot of unwillingness to admit to mistakes. Like York used to be with the 49ers when they chased our Harbaugh, though credit to York he seems to have learned.
We are trying to win. We just don’t have the FO capable of making the right decisions. And we don’t have an organization willing to admit their own lack of knowledge in how to build a winning team.
I look at it this way: it costs more money to win than to lose, and there’s no guarantee that devoting that upfront cost will result in enough winning to substantiate the cost. They know they can’t be too bad, so they do just enough to ensure mediocrity. There’s simply no other logical reason to continue to employ Vlade in my mind.
At the time that the Kings passed on Luka Doncic, De’Aaron Fox was coming off a rookie year in which he did not even make 2nd team all-rookie. The best player on the team that year was probably Buddy Hield or Willie Cauley-Stein. There simply was no reason not to draft Doncic.
Draft Doncic with your golden ticket, retain Joerger, and you’re overwhelmingly likely to be a lock for the playoffs this year. Instead…
Do you see the Kings finishing ahead of any of these teams next season: LAC, LAL, Den, Hou, Uta, OKC, Dal, Por, GS. That’s nine teams, and it does not include Mem, NO, Phx, SA. Now, OKC could still sell off their high-priced players, though with the tight cap it is less likely. Next year sure looks like another year of jockeying for draft position instead of playoff position. At this point there is really no end in sight for an organization that refuses to take responsibility or be held accountable for their disastrous decisions.
I’m here for the community. I’m sure as shit not here for the Kangz.
As of right now, I can name only 3 teams that I can say with confidence will be worse than the Kings:
Hornets, Knicks and Cavs. All Eastern Conference Teams
I don’t think they are better than the TWolves and will therefore be last in the West. Being better than the Bulls, Hawks, Wiz and Pistons is also debatable but Hawks have a better young core, and the Pistons, WIz and Bulls (if healthy) have a better team.
Would it surprise anyone if the Kings have another top 5 pick next summer?
Fixed this 🙁
If boylen is still coaching the bulls, I think they’re worse than the kings.
…So, I ask, Vivek, when is it enough?…
Vivek: “I’ll get back to you on that Greg”
After I watch the tape.
Is it possible that we witnessed the worst game that these Kings could throw out into the bubble? They were and continue to be horrible–losing against the Spurs B-team and then against a should be uninspired Magic team who a friend “in the bubble” told me was barely interested in playing any games because of their (very) unlikely chances of making the 9 spot in the east. “They don’t want to be here” I was told. Now I am not sure if he wasn’t speaking of the Kings.
The silver lining of totally shi++ing the bed in the first two games? That we honestly don’t have to waste time watching the next six games. I don’t care how you crunch the numbers to get to the “if they win the next six in a row and everyone else loses” scenario–the season is over. And after all the BS time we spent getting our asses fired up again that they might have a chance….all of the excellent articles prepping us for this…allowing us to get into a space where we believed that our team had a chance. You know how your team has a chance, when THEY believe that they have a chance and at no point during these last two games did the team or the coaching staff appear to believe that they had a chance.
I actually had concluded that they would get to the 9th spot…win the first game of the 2 game series against the #8 team and then lose—they aren’t even good enough to break our hearts in the standard manner….they basically played like they were giving the Bubble, Disneyworld, the city of Orlando, and most importantly the fans of the Sacramento Kings a big, fat middle finger.
I attended the first game that the Kings played against the Clippers on October 25th, 1985 and had season tickets up until 2015….still a fan but couldn’t justify paying for games any longer. Now I cannot justify watching this flaming shi+show. I will head back to wasting my time with my previously beloved Kings when they decide to “waste” time playing NBA level basketball on a consistent basis. All the cliches….all the BS talk….all the “watch film and get better”….all the “just wait to see how the master plan comes together”….f-ing over it.
PS-Luka was passed over because Vlade and Luka’s dad vigorously dislike each other. You can try to ponder all the other options–the previously mentioned “in the bubble” guy gets red in the face when I try to argue otherwise…
Scenario 1: Vlade passed over Luka because he and Luka’s dad dislike each other.
Scenario 2: Vlade passed over Luka because of basketball reasons.
Both are fireable offenses.
Yeah, the reason does not matter at all at this point. Fox, Luka’s dad, Bagley lust, locusts, aliens, whatever. Anyone that had anything to do with either making or authorizing the decision needs to go.
Totally agree….just the idea of someone putting their personal disputes before the team seriously rankles me. The groundswell for a new FO and head coach is growing….let them go now…
“Vlade’s a glue guy!” Who knew that this meant that Vlade was sniffing glue?
“The Bagley draft selection was a no-brainer!”
I think we saw the difference between a no-brainer and a zero-brainer.
As it should. Yeah if that one is true, it should be an instant firing.
I don’t know anything, but this is the same guy who hired his assistant GM and head coach because they were his buddies, with no interview process for either, so it wouldn’t be surprising.
Adding – we are heading into 5 years with Vlade as GM and we are on pace for 35 wins.
He is the longest tenured GM without a 2nd round playoff appearance and 50 wins. He has 0 playoff appearances and has maxed out at 30 wins.
He entire tenure at this point is a fireable offense. We could criticize individual moves all day long and his defenders will point out why the moves were justified.
At the end of the day, the GM needs to build a winning program. We are not a winning program and are getting passed up by a multitude of teams who started rebuilding after us.
Firing Joeger might have been a bad call, but I still remember how we stunk it up after the all star break last year, it wasn’t pretty. But Walton is in over his head for sure. Horrible coaching.
I can say with confidence that if Walton was fired tomorrow he would not get another NBA head coaching job. He might not even get an assistant job. I could see him going and coaching college. Vlade, on the other hand, wouldn’t even get another front office job in the NBA. He’d go back to Europe. That’s how bad our GM and coach are, the other 29 teams wouldn’t even consider them for a job.
Paul Silas. Luke Walton. The only two coaches to have LeBron James and not make the playoffs with him. And the Kangz hired Walton with zero coaching search and zero vetting after firing a head coach that delivered the best season to the organization in well over a decade. Unreal.
And hell, Silas had LeBron when he was 18-20 years old. That’s a bit different than a guy at 33.
Plus, Paul Silas did have success in Charlotte with the Hornets (Pelicans org now) before that.
He certainly wasn’t perfect. But Joerger falls squarely in that middle tier of competent level NBA coaches.
Sadly Walton does not, and that is making Joerger look better in comparison.
Fun fact:
The Kings were pretty much the same team after the break as before. They just stopped getting lucky and regressed to their mean.
Yeah the “they stunk it up” thing is really propaganda foisted by the talking heads protecting Vlade.
This can’t be in reference to me, I am not protecting divac, get him out of here. They did stink it up after the all star break. Didn’t we have like two different games where we were ahead by over twenty points heading into the fourth quarter and still loose the game. Weren’t those two games both after the all star break. Maybe the team was actually playing more to who they are and they just weren’t as good as the slightly better first half of the season. Probably.
Sorry, didn’t mean you specifically, just meant the talking heads around Kings media are responsible for really putting that out there after the Joerger firing, and it was obviously done to protect Vlade. It was much needed, since it was really a repeat of the dumb Malone firing.
As to the rest of it, I tend to think they overperformed record-wise early in the year, and underperformed down the stretch. Their advanced metrics were actually pretty similar during those periods, so I’d vehemently disagree that they stunk it up. Their final record was a pretty true indicator of how they performed last season, and I tend to look at that in comparison to the prior year to evaluate Joerger (a guy I’ve never been much of a fan of, for full disclosure). But it’s hard to argue results.
I really feel that last game of the regular season has given this idea fuel. They absolutely trounced the Blazers in Portland in the first half, Joerger gives the deep bench guys a chance to play in the second half of a game that doesn’t matter, and the Blazers come back to win. It cost a chance to get a 40th win, which ended up being hugely important to some Kings fans.
But in that first half, and in the season overall, you saw a team that was finally pointing in the right direction for the first time since Malone was fired. That was the reality, the rest of this is just propaganda.
I think if we don’t re-rebuild now, it will look a whole lot worse 3 years from now when we have to re-re-rebuild… I hope that is on the table this off-season. We are stuck with Luke Walton and Vlade for at least another year, which is unfortunate. Buddy is a great shooter that has at least a little value, that may not be the case next year. Holmes, Barnes could be worthwhile for teams trying to compete that wont consider them 2 of their best 4 players. Bogdan is an ok shooting guard that could be a contributor for almost every team.
My ideal off-season would be trading Buddy to Philly for Horford/Thybulle.
S&T Bogdan for DJ Wilson/Ilyasova 20th pick this year.
Our lineup next year should be like this:
Fox/Theo Maledon (Bucks 20 pick)
Thybulle/Justin James/Trevelin Queen (Kings 51 pick)
Daquan Jeffries/Patrick Williams (Kings 12 pick)
Bagley/DJ Wilson/Patrick Williams
Horford/Paul Reed(Kings 34 pick)/Bagley
This would re-shape the Kings moving forward. You have defensive players with length and athleticism, this would hopefully allow Bagley to re-establish his production and spot on the team moving forward, and make way for a higher pick in 2021 draft where there seems to be a lot of talent.
The best 3-pt shooter on this team is Al Horford
I’m fine with that, gives a couple young guys a chance to establish roles, and although I would trade Barnes for the right return the two trades mentioned doesn’t include a Barnes trade, he may still be here as a shooter.
Due to proximity, the Walnut Creek Pro Pathway G League team is my new favorite team:
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1290332477668589568?s=20
I would pay for a game in Stockton or Walnut Creek before I would shell out money for a Kings game.
I’d meet them half way in Antioch and pay double before I would shell out money for a Kings game.
I’d rather pay for a Knicks game than….wait, where are we going with this???
Just saw a tag line on ESPN: “Mavs clinch playoff spot to end three-year drought.” There is so much to unpack there, I don’t know where to start. Mavs? Playoffs? Three-year drought?”
Your Sacramento Kangz: Welcome to
hellthe Serengeti!What’s even more impressive. They only have 2 players left from that 2015-16 playoff team 4 years ago: JJ Barea and Dwight Powell.
They also have had only 2 lottery picks while out of the playoffs. Dennis Smith Jr. at #9 was taken in 2017 and used in trade to get Zinger. Tre Young taken at #5 in 2018 and used to get Luka.
From that, they built a playoff team.
The Kings have had 12 lottery picks over the last 13 drafts and have no playoffs to show for it.
One question is: would the Mavericks have made the playoffs without Luka Doncic? If not, they basically achieved this success because of Vlade and company’s blunder.
That’s how important a GM is, Vivek! They’re not just there for public relations.
The other question is: Had they kept Trae Young, would they be any worse than the Kings right now? Keep in mind they would have had the #10 pick in 2019 as well.
Willie Cauley Stein, Justin Jackson, and Seth Curry make the playoffs!
Sorry, Kings fans. They’re wearing cowboy hats.
9 Kangz coaches during Carlisle’s 12 year tenure in Dallas.
Oh Steve Kerr, you’re just great!:
A couple days later, Kerr told Tim Kawakami:
“I thought we’d go 25-0 to be honest with you,” Kerr said, cracking up as he said it. “I sent (Walton) a text after the Milwaukee game; I said, What the hell are you doing? You have no idea what you’re doing, do you?’ Joking!”
Jesus Christ. I just realized that this was all the Dubs’ fault and that historic start. Walton piggybacked on that success and made everyone believe he can be a head coach when in reality, that team was just broken.
Vivek buys the team. Vivek opts for a person with whom he has an established personal relationship, Pete D’Alessandro, as his GM. Relationship deteriorates, Pete fired.
Vivek opts for Vlade, with whom he and the fanbase have an established personal relationship, as GM.
Vlade opts for Luke Walton, with whom he has an established personal relationship, as coach.
The common thread between these 3? Formal interviews were not conducted beyond the candidates who eventually got the job. This is cronyism. And like most cronyistic enterprises, the business is being undercut by competitors who take bigger risks or hire more qualified candidates for these positions.
Think about it. With the exception of maybe New York and Charlotte, no other team has demonstrably spent so much time waffling through a rebuild as us. The culture of gambling on personal contacts you can deal with, vice the best minds in the game, or best talent, has caught up with us.
At least during the later Petrie era with the Maloofs we could blame their general villainy, lack of transparency, and cost-cutting for our woes. In a way this is just as bad, and possibly more lasting and harmful.
Just me personally, I’m there. If Vivek decides to keep Vlade and Walton on, I’ll just not care next year. I’ll still stop by here, and check out Kings Twitter, but as far as the actual games go? No. The draft lottery? Nope. Actual draft? Nope.
Won’t spend anymore money on the franchise, either.
I just don’t see how Vivek can be OK with this, and that’s probably the issue. I’m thankful that Vivek saved this team from leaving, but I would like to get a new owner as well. Someone who just let the basketball people do the basketball stuff.
Vivek, per the Bucher article, is playing it financially safe since he signed Vlade to that extension and gave Walton a stupid deal, all before COVID hit. So I have little faith he’ll bite the bullet and fire one, let alone both.
More possible: reassign Vlade somehwere else in the organization. Promote Catanella. Let Walton dangle on the vine one more season, then let Catanella pick his own coach at the start of his 2nd season as GM. It would foster change and not cost him all that much, saving Vlade face and quieting some of the mounting discontent. Once Vlade’s deal expires, let him walk.
I’m not saying this is my preferred option, mind you, just that I could see Vivek seeing this as a cheap route for change and pacifying the masses.
That would be better than the current situation, but things won’t change until Vivek stays out of bball ops…which means he hires someone who will stand up to Vivek, and not rollover for Martina. I don’t see that happening as long as Vivek is the owner.
This is a horrible option. And quite likely, sadly.
At this point, I would take that. Also, if Vivek is being “financially safe,” do us a favor and sell the team!
To answer the title to the article… It was enough a long long time ago.
The entire tenure of Vivek’s ownership has been a joke – and not a funny one – a bad one.
The sheer number of incredibly stupid and seemingly blind blunders is beyond about anything I have ever seen from ANY bad sports team, in any sport, in any era. It’s astounding.
Vivek ranks among the worst sports owners of all time – and that is saying something.
As horrible as the late great Al Davis was in his last decade as the Raiders owner – at least he had rings to point to as an excuse for his outdated thinking. What does Vivek have to lean on? What is his justification for his rationale?
It explains my (admittedly stomach turning) user name.
I don’t even have anything left to say about Vlade. He really should never have been put in this position. It’s not unlike playing Buddy at point guard. It just should not happen. The largest disappointment in Divac is his lack of integrity at this point. He needs to resign. He is just bad at his job and if he cares about this team and it’s fanbase, he needs to go and we need a real, proven, experienced basketball GM.
And Walton? He’s a schmuck. Always was. Always will be. And it speaks LOUDLY as to how poor Vlade’s judgement is. Fire them all. NOW. Like… TODAY. (and really… I’m not watching until they do.)
I’ve said this before when I was Kangz1960 on the old site, but I’ve always thought that the Kings are a downtown redevelopment enterprise first, and a basketball organization second. As long as the Kings stumbled along with at least 30-35 wins, the masses would be placated with dreams of future glory while a new hotel, restaurants and businesses sprouted like mushrooms around Golden1.
Unfortunately, COVID-19 has turned this business model on its head. The Emerald City is limited to outdoor dining, to go orders and DoorDash because of public health restrictions, many downtown workers (like me) are teleworking and a lot of Sacramentans at looking at a loss of unemployment benefits and possible eviction.
As for the Kings, the likelihood of games with fans in attendance before 2021 is slight.
My point? It doesn’t look like the Kings ownership group is flush with cash for a rebuild. I can’t see Vivek persuading the ownership group to cut loose Vlade and Luke, and that’s a huge problem because without a new GM, a new coach and an overhaul of this roster, the Kings are going to continue to be one of the worst teams in the league for years. The combination of COVID-19 and the drafting of Bagley over Doncic has destroyed whatever hope remained for this franchise.
I can only see one way to salvage this nightmare: the sale of the Kings to new owners.
I probably went too far but I sent Vivek a IG message and told him that Vlade has no clue about the modern NBA and how it works, and that they are all an embarrassment to this city and the fans with their perpetual mediocrity. I gotta keep it Sac on these fools. I encourage y’all to do the same, everyone tell Vivek to fire Vlade in DMs and comments haha.
But seriously let me just make my main point. Here’s the thing about today’s NBA, you want to be either a perennial contender and making the playoffs with a shot to win it or you want to be trying to draft a top 5 pick that will be a superstar franchise cornerstone and turn things around. There’s not really much room for in between and it’s kinda pointless. Where we are sitting right now is literally the worst place you can possibly be, just outside playoffs, and not high up in draft, path to eternal mediocrity.
The kings front office (and some fans) have been thirsting for am 8th seed, when that’s not even really an accomplishment. You don’t add veterans to a team that is not a contender, you do that when you are already good. Otherwise you let the young guys fail and learn until they either figure it out and get good, or they get you another top 5 pick and you get a good group of 2, 3 or 4 star young players to build around. The only star we have is D Fox, so they need to keep sucking until they draft a couple more young guys like him, real young, not Bogi and Buddy late 20s young,
Vlade should know all this but he doesn’t because his mindset is outdated and he doesn’t seem that bright to begin with. Correct me if I’m wrong here, this seems like pretty common knowledge these days. I’d rather be accumulating good picks (like we could have with Doncic) than praying for an 8th seed. You gotta nail the draft though when you’re the small market kings and let your young team stay young and shitty for awhile to turn it around. Get rid of Vlade please, it’s a joke, and the biggest one to blame ain’t Vlade.
But guys, we have Corey Brewer. So at least there’s that.
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