The Kings have finally traded with the Atlanta Hawks, but not for the guy many thought would be headed to Sacramento, John Collins. Instead, they are trading Mo Harkless, Justin Holiday and a future first round pick for Kevin Huerter.
Atlanta is trading Kevin Huerter to Sacramento for Justin Holiday, Mo Harkless and a future first round pick, sources tell EPSN.
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 1, 2022
And here are the details on the pick protection:
League source confirms the details of the pick involved in the Kevin Huerter trade. Kings first-rounder is lottery-protected in 2024, top-12 in 2025, top-10 in 2026 and converts into two seconds if it isn’t conveyed in 2026.
— James Ham (@James_HamNBA) July 1, 2022
Huerter was the 19th overall pick in the 2018 draft. Over the last four seasons he has proven to be a reliable outside shooter, shooting 37.9% from three on 5.4 attempts a game over his entire career. He’s also locked up on a four year, $65 million contract that he signed last year and will be just 24 years old heading into the 2022-23 season.
For the Kings, this is a solid value acquisition, acquiring a young starting guard/wing for essentially expiring contracts and a decently protected pick. It also makes the decision to not tender the qualifying offer to Donte DiVincenzo make more sense, as the Kings probably didn’t want to commit too much money to more guards. With Dejounte Murray now in Atlanta, the Hawks likely didn’t feel the need to have so much money invested in Huerter who would likely have moved to the bench.
The Kings have now added two relatively young players in Huerter and Malik Monk who fill a big need as good shooters. The Kings still need to address their defense, however. After the trade, the Kings are at 12 guaranteed contracts, so we’ll see what else Monte has up his sleeves.
Red Velvet is now King Cake!
Big welcome to the Red Velvet!!!
Be sure to clarify commenters on how to correctly spell his last name.
haha!
I already forgot if it’s Donte or Dante lol.
Dahntay?
I like both Huerter and Monk better than Hield.
So nice.
And Hawks message boards don’t like it either. Like Monk, that’s always the sign the Kings did well.
It’s a nice little bonus for us.
Yes! I like this trade.
I like this trade. Coach Brown and his staff have some work to do now on the defensive end.
Ham points out the Stepien Rule:
https://twitter.com/james_hamnba/status/1542924996858691584
So I think this means they can still trade the 2023 pick, but only after the selection has been made?
Well, yeah, because then they aren’t trading the pick. They’re trading the player.
Of course, they could pick up another 1st somewhere along the line.
Yes, you can always do a draft -day trade. Stepien Rule is irrelevant there.
I think it conveys in ’24
Okay, I’m starting to get excited now. Two good (not great), young players added to strengthen the core. They should specifically help to spread the floor for Fox and Domas.
The pick protections can drag on for quite a while and bother future flexibility, but I guess you need to break some eggs for an ommelette.
Let’s eat!
Omelette and Red Velvet?
If the Kings could just go ahead and be a playoff team by ’24 or ’25, then the Hawks can just take it and we’ll be done with the whole mess.
That would be ideal, definitely.
yup, things are getting interesting, in a good way. If I’m not mistaken, Heurter has some playmaking abilities also …
I don’t see the ball getting stuck in one place for very long.
I like these two signings/trades for the Kings. Heck, at the very least we will be fun and interesting!
Also, the NBA is on drugs right now. Bonkers!
Honestly. Wtf is happening.
I think this is what happens after the death of the super team, and the waning of generational talents in LeBron and to a lesser extent Curry and Durant. The league is wide open and teams are going to go for it.
I have to admit I agree. I really like Huerter because he’s not just a shooter but also a solid secondary playmaker and can create a little bit off the bounce. The same goes for Monk. It’s just nice having multiple guys who will be able to attack and create offense. Now, the defense is probably going to be a disaster and that’s where you have to hope that Mike Brown can get these guys to buy in but these two moves have the potential to actually make the team better and they are both pretty young. Getting young dudes who are legitimate starter/contributor level players on good teams is something this team doesn’t usually do.
There’s a new sheriff in town FKC.
Fingers perpetually crossed and hope springs eternal and all that!
I really like this trade. I’ve always liked Huerter and have wanted him on the Kings for years. I kind of see him as a Klay lite and the Kings are hopefully only giving up a non-lottery pick for him. Well done Monte.
I’ve seen him as a Klay lite as well, very similar games.
How lite?
Holmgren + lite.
Now you’re just being mean.
Bad joke. My apologies. I like Huerter. It will be interesting to see if his minutes go up in a larger role.
I didn’t mean that as a complaint.
I know.
In reality Huerter is a good finisher around the rim and takes a fair amount of bodying by defenders, absorbs the physical bumps and scores pretty well.
He is solid. I trust he will continue to be in Brown-coached scheme.
He’s also a very good athlete. I can see Huerter, Fox, Monk and some of the other young guys buying in to Brown’s defensive schemes, and there being significant improvement.
Anticipating the logical follow-up question, defensive schemes are a thing that some coaches use to maximize their team’s chances to hamper opponents. In the Sacramento era, I don’t recall such a thing having ever existed.
Joerger tried, no?
Malone too.
I imagine so, but that was a very different group of players, not just in the literal sense. The 2018-19 group’s best DRtg for players that got real minutes was Willie Cauley-Stein at 108. (Willie also had the best ORtg, oddly enough.)
The team was also older, and less athletic, top to bottom. I doubt there was a buy-in to consistently go hard on defense.
I’m hopeful with younger players, and with the example of DMitchell in particular, that the group will be more malleable and accepting of consistent team defensive effort.
I might be way off on this but weren’t a couple of the glory years teams very good defensively? I know the raw points scored numbers don’t support this but I could swear there were analyses(?) that they were at least above average when adjusted for pace. I am also possibly completely pulling this out of my ass, so salt this comment to taste.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure the golden age had a few teams that were good on D.
Two moves I actually like.
What the hell is going on?!
Vivek letting Monte do his job.
Cats and Dogs living together! MASS HYSTERIA!
Maybe, though I’ve noticed a tendency towards:
Moves I don’t like = Vivek meddling.
Moves I do like = Vivek letting the GM do his job.
Plot twist: Vivek has been the mastermind of this entire offseason. Monte has been pushing for Sharpe at #4 and Oladipo at 4yrs/100mil
Have you noticed that none of these moves happened until Anjali was added to the FO!
There was no Monte McNair, only Anjali World.
This is five-dimensional checkers, right here.
I think that’s just how it’s going to be until this team actually succeeds at something. Vivek has absolutely no benefit of the doubt given that he’s presided over multiple failed front offices. Plus, I think that Monte McNair actually has credibility as an executive whereas someone like Vlade had none. When Vlade was GM, I just expected failure and whether it was Vivek’s fault or Vlade’s, we were screwed either way. I at least have a little more confidence that Monte McNair has some idea that he knows what he’s doing.
Good call. If you’re going to the store and you decide to let the dog drive, of course you’re going to crash. And pinning all of the blame on the dog having no driving skills isn’t an adequate explanation.
If the dog gets you there in quick fashion though, he deserves a contract extension and a belly rub.
I feel like I must’ve just had a stroke because I actually find myself feeling optimistic at this moment!
Guess we will be playing next June
Me yesterday: Damn, not resigning DDV. You better have a plan, Monte!
Me today: Well hot damn, he had a plan!
Stayed flexible and struck when the value was there.
feels like typical Houston/Morey type planning
I noticed this trade happened after the Dejounte trade was finalized yesterday evening. I’m guessing ATL needed that domino to fall first. This Huerter trade may have been in the works for days.
I was just listening to a podcast, it might have been Kevin O’Conner and Marc Stein, where Mark said at anytime teams have sixty or seventy trades in conversation, and only a small percentage gets leaked, usually because someone is trying to get leverage. Its not the first time I have heard that. I can’t imagine the fascinating conversations and scenarios we never get to know about.
Repeating myself from the other thread but I just struggle to think you couldnt have done a little better if you were willing to outlay a first. The protection has a decent chance conveying very close to the range of its protection. I see why they aligned the picks with Sabonis. Post 24, If he leaves you blow it up and are in the protection range, if he re-signs you likely are decent and conveying early on out of the lottery (if you hadnt conveyed in 24). From our end you hope the team is decent after Sabonis’s last year and conveys in the first year. But the chance you kind of split the difference and give up a lottery pick in the following years is conceivable.
Can settle in the Kings circumstance being willing to part with a pick. One that even has a good chance of conveying in the late lottery. But hard to think you couldn’t got a bit more of an immediate boost or assurance in terms of the player return. This has a good chance at being a quality first.
Gotta make a move at some point
I think it’s a value trade considering how many picks and swaps go for star players, giving up one highly protected first and buying low on KH is reasonable.
Thats reasonable. Especially I think if the pick conveys in 24. I personally regardless of where the Kings end up post Sabonis in 24, would like to not have this protection linger with us, limit other deals via the Stepien, him resigning or not.
I think it’s also unfair to both praise Monte for factoring upside, but also be marginally underwhelmed by the initial impact. Questions of KH being an average to plus starter I think are worthy. That said Huerter is an interesting player (one of many in the Kings acquisitions I might quibble business wise, but removed very much enjoy). Maybe I should feel more excited on the fact this will be a very aesthetically enjoyable team with a lot of connectors.
nonstripe, “If” the Kings are still stretching their legs in the Marketplace and checking the value of HB in search of a defensive 4 one possible option is to do exactly what the Hawks just did and look for a future 1st as part of the price for Barnes.
I like Barnes. He can play ISO and get a bucket when it is absolutely needed, good team player, an exemplary role model, but he has a short contract fuse to get a return on his value. Sabonis is the go-to player for ISO buckets now.
I wonder what this trade does in terms of Davis’ playing time and also the Veschenkov (sp?) rights trade and the effort to bring him over this year.
I like this trade all in all.
I keep forgetting about TD. He’s gonna have a hard time getting minutes now ahead of Monk and Huerter.
His contract could be nice filler in a larger trade.
I think you may be on the spot. He is relentless, perhaps too much some times, driving and slashing to the rim. I like that skill, except when I don’t….takes a little pressure off of Fox and Kings perimeter shooters. He has a nice skill set, but he may be a trade piece now.
5th in the guard rotation is about right for him anyway.
He’ll get some run at the 3, I suspect Huerter will too.
I suspect a very brief run with Murray + Fox, Mitchel, Monk and Huerter.
duds run Kuminga at the 5 occasionally
If Hawks wanted HB instead of the future pick I would not have done that.
I think the pick conveys 2025 and is a 15 or so.
We lived through this future protected mode in the past with Vlade- and is uncomfortable. Make the play offs this year, convey and get it over with.
Huerter was picked at 19 in 2018. Bagley draft. Other players above him were L. Walker, DDV, T. Brown, J. Robinson, and K. Knox.
If pick conveys in 2024, 2025 or 2026, Kings will have to finish 6th or 7th for the pick given up being a #19. If the pick conveys 2024, 2026, the kings could actually still finish out of play-offs and the pick conveyed would be better than a #19. But, as noted, 19 is a crap shoot. The pick conveyed will probably be better than 19 but the player picked may not be anywhere as successful as Huerter. Losing Moe and Holiday is not really a huge loss.
Huerter can shoot, Monk can shoot. Holiday inconsistent. Either of those is better.
DDV – eye test- inconsistent and probably wanted more than MLE.
Trade opens roster spot. Hope that Sasha gets convinced to come on over. He does have a limited window.
You also have to understand the fact that for Atlanta to make this trade with Sacramento and not anyone else if they don’t have room for KH anymore, is that Sacramento’s offer has to be the best in Atlanta’s POV, for this trade to go through. KH is not only far and away the best player in this deal, but he’s young, should keep improving and is on a 4 year deal that should only get better in value with how many insane contracts are thrown around in FA every year. If Holiday and Harkless were on the Hawks on their playoff run, just one year after they got close to the finals and had very lofty expectations, would they even have gotten minutes on that team? The Kings got a really solid young player, for two meh players and a pick that only conveys if the kings get close/to the playoffs. I don’t think they were going to get anything better with this same package
I’ll take it. Fox, Mitchell, Monk, Huerter is a pretty interesting guard rotation and the pick protections are reasonable even though they limit future trade flexibility.
Now they just really need some versatile wing defenders and still need a 3-and-D big.
Think they play Huerter at the “3” a decent amount. Something like Fox, Monk, Huerter, Barnes, Sabonis.
Then a bigger version with Fox, Huerter, Barnes, Murray, Sabonis
I’m sure they will. Maybe with Murray instead of Barnes though, since they’ll need more of a presence at the rim. In general though, Huerter is better suited to guarding other guards. He struggles with NBA-SF-sized guys.
Fox, Huerter, Barnes, Murray and Sabonis. That’s your starting 5 right there.
4 proven NBA-level starters and one guy who promises to be. When’s the last time the Kings had that prior to training camp? And with a proven coach, too.
I like TD as a microwave option off the bench. Lyles for hustle. One more 3-and-D hustle type and I could see them winning about the same number of games they are losing with hustle and shooting alone.
Agreed, that’s the bottom line. NBA talent. Now we need to create a reliable rotation and add some D. I’ll be very surprised if another move isn’t coming relating to HB and/or Holmes.
I really like this move. I would have thought that the Hawks might have done better in trade value, but there is a good amount of talent in the league guard wise right now, and I would imagine with the KD trade looming, and that probably needing three teams to execute, as well as Danny Ainge maybe moving off of both Gobert and Mitchell, that there are more than a couple of teams waiting for those to shake out before they make further moves.
I really like the job McNair is doing. Really logical as far as roster fit, and still fungible contracts and skill sets to package in the near future.
He has a decent contract, doesn’t he?
Yeah, really solid. 4/65
No player options either. That’s a bonus right there.
Two deep everywhere now with real NBA players…
Finish out the roster without losing other pieces and let’s roll.
Fox, Davion
Monk, TD
Barnes, Huerter
Murray, Lyles
Sabonis, Holmes
Playoffs baby!
The roster is finally starting to fit and round out.
If Vezenkov comes over, that would be nice too.
Absolutely, great competition with Lyles
He might play some SF as well. Heard reports that IF he plays for the Kings, his ideal position might be at the wing rather than at the 4 where he would be task at guarding bigger players.
Reminds me somewhat of a Joe Ingles type of player. High IQ, shoots the 3 really well, not athletic.
I’d be REALLY surprised if he didn’t get cooked all game if he’s forced to guarding NBA perimeter players.
Oh he’s getting his a** lit up by NBA wings no doubt about that.
Huerter should be the starting SG.
Hopefully Davion can continue looking much like a starter if he comes off the bench for Fox.
Holmes, Lyles, Huerter, Davion…. Won’t be out scoring anyone but I like that hustle off the bench.
I think we start Huerter to start with Mitchell and Monk to lead the bench mob
Awesome trade!
KH is young and fits the timeline with Fox, Monk, Mitchell (older second year player), Murray (older rookie) and Sabonis.
Value contract with four years left.
Brings size to the wing positions.
Not having to give Barnes or Holmes up in the deal is impressive. Perhaps another move occurs with one or two of these assets.
As of now: McGenius > McDoofus
I didn’t watch KH last year, but he impressed me a ton in the 2021 playoffs. Really reminded me of a poor man’s Klay. If he can play like that consistently, he’s a steal.
Not a bad top 8:
Fox
Monk
KH
Barnes
Sabonis
Murray, Mitchell, Holmes
Here’s a writeup of how he’s done since the 2021 playoffs:
https://www.si.com/nba/hawks/news/atlanta-hawks-season-grades-kevin-huerter
Okay, that’s a somewhat sobering reality check.
I’m not sure what you expected. When healthy Bogdan is a good player.
I was euphoric for a moment! It will wear off.
Huerter isn’t close to the defender Klay is, but he’s a better playmaker.
I will say that by adding Huerter, who can play the 3, Monte has made Barnes more expendable. Maybe there is still a Barnes and Holmes package out there somewhere?
Ehhhh, I’m not sure Huerter changes anything with Barnes. They’re kinda SFs in opposite lineups for different situations. Neither of them should really be playing there full-time. Barnes is kind of a PF that CAN play some SF. While Huerter is a SG that can play some SF.
One could argue that the Kings don’t really have anyone on the roster that’s best used as a full-time SF.
I would not be surprised if Keegan Murray develops into more of a SF than a PF. Wait and see.
We traded the only true SF on roster in Holiday.
We’re really going to miss those 1-for-8 3FG nights, LOL
This trade may signal a more diminished role for Barnes, or Monte has another card up his sleeve.
I have a hunch Monte is just getting started. These recent moves are very refreshing for the Kings. I like it. Fast and Furious.
I like that it makes Keegan Murray, not the defacto starter on Opening Day. Instead, and the All-Rookie watchers won’t like this, he gets to have a wonderful mentor in Harrison Barnes, who is a Pro’s Pro, both on and off the court.
It may mean his playing time and thus stats will be “harmed” but how refreshing to have a rookie who is not pushed into the line up but can grow into the line up.
I totally agree.
We just have to be ready to watch a Fox, Monk, Huerter, Barnes, Sabonis lineup really struggle on the defensive end.
I’m still not sold that Barnes is on this roster on opening day. We will see. Hoping for more of a defensive presence at the 4 now that we obtained two different shooters/scorers over the last 24 hours.
More importantly and salient, struggle to win games.
Keegan will have to fight to start on opening night, but I think the most likely outcome is that he will start on opening night.
It’s so interesting to me how the league has evolved. Seems like Barnes was a definite 3 when he started his career, but in today’s NBA he’s more of a 4.
Considering they’re all in on trying to make the playoffs, I’m guessing HB sticks. KH and HB together provide versatility which I’m sure coach will appreciate.
Have to say I appreciate and think it shrewd that Monte’s adds align very nicely with the cores age profile (albeit with the draft possibly an exception). That said we have a generation of players connected, with potential for appreciation. If your scheming to pitch Sabonis on an extension, Its a fine margin of improving in the immediate, but also with the chance to ascend. I might quibble with certain choices but the fingerprints of that being factored and taken into consideration is comforting.
It’s nice to see for the first time in a while that the team has a clear vision for the shape and makeup of the roster, and they’re executing to create that vision. It’s as if we have a real GM for the first time since Petrie…..
Monte: “Let them eat cake.”
Very nice 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
I really hope Huerter and Monk don’t follow in the age-old Kangz tradition of turning into pumpkins immediately once in Sac.
We’ve sucked so hard for so long that its’s very likely the pick conveys as two seconds.
I think that tradition is more our tendency to expect new players to be something they aren’t and take on a bigger role than their tendency to pumpkin.
I feel like Mike Brown will be a much better game planner than previous head coaches, and Sabonis being such a good playmaker is going make some of these pieces fit a bit easier.
Hopefully. I’m just saying we have a tendency to become a bit delusional about incoming players.
I think we have a tendency to become a bit delusional about everything. Stockholm syndrome you know?
We also have a history of calling off-seasons a win. And then the season starts.
And before someone says it, we also have people saing each season; “but this season feels different!”
Having said that, I will ridicule myself and claim that this season is starting to feel different. There seems to be a certain shape and coherence to the roster, with decent athletes with skills, BBIQ and playmaking abilities. Decent contracts and quite youthful. And a coach who can possibly forge it into a team.
Will it be enough relative to the rest of the league? A lot will hinge on Fox, and that still makes me uncomfortable.
But there seems to be rason for careful optimism.
I agree that there seems to be a coherent plan. And in general I like the moves so far. The Kings are still at least one truly impactful, top-40ish player away from me feeling okay about a chance at the playoffs, and I’m not sure how they’re going to get that/those guy(s). But I like the Murray, Monk, and Huerter additions. I think the team is better now than it was before. If I had to put a win number on it, I’d probably say somewhere in the 35-38 win range. Which means .500 is within reach if thing go right.
One truly impactful player- yes 1 or2.
and because that one player is probably not coming from the middle of the draft, this trade makes sense. I have spent too long hoping for that one guy when the Kings had high lottery and that did not materialize, so “losing ” a pick around #15 would not do it. KH is actually proven. All the future #15’s are just guesses.
That guy may not be coming from the middle of the draft (though a good handful of the top players in the league have). but they or the pick may become part of a trade package that does. I think the mistake we often make here is in thinking there’s any one silver bullet that’s going to make the Kings contenders. In reality, even if they tank for a top pick or two, it’s still going to talk a number of smart, non-tanking moves to build a winner. There are only so many LeBron’s in the world, and if they happen out-tank everyone in a season where there is one, they still only have something like a 14% chance of getting the top pick. Detroit, for example, just did a two year tank and still have A LOT of work to do to put a winner on the court.
That’s exactly how I felt when we traded for Sabonis. One of many positive moves that need to happen to get back to the playoffs. One player won’t fix our 16 year drought. But several good moves and a little luck will.
Funny thing is, it kind of is the middle of the 1st round, but we’re betting on players drafted there 4-5 years ago (#11 and #19) so they’re known quantities …. we’re not praying for Justin Jackson to become an NBA starter
Your posts are starting to feel different. I think your off season is a success. Of course, we’ve tended to overvalue you in the past.
LOL.
I agree with this take Rik. I have been utterly pessimistic and convinced that anything the team does is destined to fail, and that we have been saddled with some form of curse (of ineptitude.) I simply refuse to have hope or allow myself to care about all of the rearranging of the deck chairs.
This new coach hiring was like “well, that’s good, but he can’t make this roster win.”
The draft pick was like “well, fine. I don’t pretend to know which guy was better, so this is probably a good addition”
Getting Monk made me say…”oh, that’s pretty interesting.” I wonder how that will work out?
This signing makes me think “You, know, this is a fair string of moves that should improve the team.”
That’s as far as I’m willing to go… but I find myself… curious again. That is a big jump from “This team is dead to me.”
A string of sensible moves….
and Yes! I am wondering.. how are the going to Kangz this up?
Vivek fires Monte and appoints Aneel as new GM.
I know! One of the Kings newest additions doesn’t have Jazz hands and is a bad actor –
we’ll call him …. Felonious Monk!
Yes and No. There’s usually a pretty strong contingent on this website that are not fans of most moves we make. There’s certainly always habitual off season kool-aid drinkers as well (guilty as charged). This may be the 1st time in a LONG time that I’ve jumped into this thread and the vast majority seems to be happy with the moves made in the last 24 hours. Are the Kings finally making moves that make sense? That’s what it feels like today at least. I don’t want to count my Kangz chickens, but I feel pretty excited about how the roster is shaping up.
ITT, it definitely feels like there are people who have expectations of Monk that seem unrealistic to me.
He screams sixth man microwave scorer to me which seems attainable. I’d certainly rather have Monk in that role than Buddy Hield the last couple of years.
That seems attainable. However, I doubt he can go beyond that.
At least these players are young and it’s reasonable to think they could grow their games given the opportunity. Doesn’t mean it’s going to happen (history says it won’t) but it might!
That is a really good point Carl. At least this off-season so far has seemed like it has been executed with a plan, and you can see the upside heading into the season from a bit more talent, a bit more fit, and like you said, youthful players with room to grow (I know I keep saying this, but I think there is a fair chance that Sabonis has more to his game than he was able to show in Indiana).
In prior seasons, you had to squint really hard and hope that every single thing broke in the Kings favor. Now at least they have young players on decent contracts, as well as at least one vet who should be desirable in Barnes, to keep fiddling or if an opportunity presents itself.
I fully expect Sabonis to shoot 2-3 threes per game and hit a decent percentage (34-ish%).
Saw a video of Sabonis working on 3s with his shooting coach a few days back. Hope you’re right.
Exactly. A little luck and maybe one of Huerter, Monk, or Murray raises their game to something very good/great. That’s what a team like ours needs to succeed. Love the moves to grab guys on value contracts that are young and have some potential to be something bigger. We all know we’re not trading for a superstar around here. Need a bit of luck on our side. We’re due.
Solid two pics by Monte. This team is really starting to take shape in a good way. If Murray turns into a star, this will be a playoff team for some time.
My favorite thing about the last 24 hours is: Monte actually has a plan. Does the fan base agree with the Sabonis/Hali trade? No. But he’s surrounding Fox and Sabonis with shooters, and got a defensive minded coach. There’s a plan here now, it looks like. First time we can say that in a VERY long time.
Will it work? Not sure, but I love the attempt.
I don’t know that this is actually true. Objectively, when comparing the two players, Sabonis is better, and plays a position where Sacramento needed a legit starter.
I read a lot of very smart takes at TKH (going forward, The Kevin Huerter), but I don’t feel that in a general sense, the opinions here are shared by the fan base at large.
Yeah you’re probably right. I should probably say “Do the NBA Experts agree with the trade? No”
They’re generally too wrapped up in stale jokes and memes to ever properly evaluate anything done by the Kings. It’s laziness, mostly.
I don’t know if that’s 100% true either though. I think it’s just industry standard to shit on any Kings news until proven that strategy doesn’t turn out correct.
100% agree. I think we all loved Hali, but you gotta spend to get an all-star level talent back. The name of the game in the NBA is to win as many games as you can and get yourself a ticket to the playoffs to try and win the whole thing. You can’t argue that Monte isn’t trying to just that.
Based on what I’ve read here & elsewhere, my impression is that a majority of fans are skeptical of the trade (though it’s probably a 60%-40% split).
And it’s not JUST a plan. Players are coming in and talent is being upgraded without signing old guys to overpriced deals or mortgaging every asset. It’s not enough today to say this a playoff team, but the last 4 major moves (Sabonis, Murray, Monk, Huerter) are all net positive (at least short term) and pushing in the right direction.
Good player, good trade and Kings have gotten more talented . Now, just win more .
Kind of OT:
I feel like the Celts just fleeced the Pacers for Brogdon. Could we have given something similar to that in terms of asset wise for Brogdon?
And acquired Brogdon instead of Huerter? Obviously cap situations vary but what do you guys think?
An older, oft injured Brogdon or a younger, cheaper Huerter?
Was just about to say the same thing. Brogdon actually makes a lot of sense for Boston because they have the depth to manage his games & minutes.
Brogdon as a full time starter is not a story that has gone well in recent years.
Thats a good point. With D. White there for a whole season, there isn’t a real need for Brogdon to play 2000+ regular season minutes. I hope he is healthy, the Celts were fun to watch and that will be a motivated team come playoff time. Brad Stevens is turning into a really interesting executive.
will miss Theis and Horford is getting older
Big Al still earning his check, though. I was happy to see him playing so well after being mostly written off.
That was weird stuff. He played well everywhere he’s been. Yes, even Philly despite being a terrible fit with Harris and Embiid. I was constantly pushing for the Kings to take on his contract.
Those are important aspects to the equation, but their quality also needs to be part of it.
That’s true, I was just thinking in a talent-base perspective. Arguably Brogdon brings more to the table than Huerter, and that Monte’s moves in the past year screams ‘all-in’ for playoffs next year. Just thought we’d take that gamble.
I’m good with any fleecing of IND.
That’s twice in the last half-year.
KH > Brogdon
Brogdon misses lots of games- consistently misses- not just one year but al years And his outside shot is suspect.
Yeah it kinda seems to fluctuate but he is a career .376 on 3 pointers and was just under 39 percent 2 years ago. It just feels so hard to evaluate some of the Pacers placers with all the injuries and changing coaches as much as they have recently
This team needed shooting and defense. Now they have shooting.
Hopefully Mike Brown is a miracle worker on defense…
Seeing how GS became a dog on defense we can expect Coach Mike to steer it in that direction.
You still need defensive talent. The best defensive coach in the world MIGHT be able to get this current roster to somewhere around the 18th-22th in the NBA range.
I think with the Kings ability on paper with this roster to put points on the board, a middling defense like that might be enough to make them competitive consistently.
It’s not pretty, but Barnes, Holmes, and TD for Tobias and Thybulle, could help defensively.
That really would be something.
Man I just hate the Tobias contract and I think he’s more suited to play the 4 than the 3. I’m all in for trading Barnes and Holmes for an upgrade at the wing or the 4. I just don’t think Harris + Thybulle is the way to go.
Are you seeing that somewhere Adam?
I have been texting non-stop for a couple of days with my nephew, who worked in the marketing dept for a NBA team for a few years, and still has a lot of friends in the league, and he says he keeps getting texts about that same trade
I think Rory on Twitter mentioned that deal. Not sure if Adam saw that or saw Harris be mentioned and came up with that deal.
I respectfully disagree. Once again will use Rodmans line…defense is a choice not a talent.
Its true look at guys who are defensively driven yes they have athletic skills and ability but it’s more their mentality to just give their all that drives defensive success.
Just as Brown said about Fox who is easily one of the worst defenders on the Kings, he wasn’t always he just stopped trying/caring.
The give a shits were and have been non existent on the Kangz teams of the past few years. Easily my biggest annoyance with watching it. Shots don’t fall from time to time, but watching a guy just go by you and not even pursuing them play after play is just some quitter mentality shit.
Playing defense is a choice. Playing good defense also takes talent.
Agree with all this. This nice thing is if Fox gets in a slump or gets down and quits on D, there is a dog behind him in Davion Mitchell who will play tenacious defense and start to eat up his minutes.
I think at this point, we’d be happy with 18-22. But yeah, I feel like a defensive guy needs to fill at least one of our open roster spots before game 1.
Wiggins did a nice job on Tatum in the finals. Curry has improved on D. Draymon and Klay have been good for a while. Surely Brown had something to do with that. Mitchell and Murray are already good defenders. Maybe their effort will shame the others into stepping up.
Brown certainly isn’t going to hurt our defense. And you would hope that his personality would help everyone in the team to buy in on a good defensive scheme. It’s so cliche, but a lot of defense is just buy-in and effort. Hard to give effort and buy on when the team is coached by Walton or an interim coach.
Monte has been acquiring talent but he has not been acquiring defense which leaves me concerned. Still a lot of offseason left but I’d like to see a big, rotation-quality, defensive minded wing on the roster at some point.
Separately, Huerter went to my HS growing up and both I and my little brother have played against him in recreational basketball leagues (he was at that time 5’5 and 100 lbs soaking wet, but still a better player).
Is Barnes + the 2024 pick (ranges 4-14) + top-4 protected 1st next allowable draft (say 2028) enough for a guy like OG?
I’d say it’s way more than enough.
What would you say a fair trade is for a guy like that? Age/position/contract seems to be everything we need
Consistent, lingering injuries not so much.
It’s his history of injury that concerns me. The talent is definitely there, but that’s more than I’d want to spend to add someone who may not be on the court for long stretches.
I’m a fan. So far we’ve had three solid moves this offseason, and didn’t overpay to retain a replacement level player. It’s hard to wrap my head around the concept of this level of FO competence.
I’m happy with this one. Got rid of two guys who shouldn’t get minutes for one that should, and a future pick that hopefully will be non lottery. Team is better than it was yesterday. And I’m betting MM is not done.
Anyone surprised Barnes and Collins not a part of this deal?
Probably still waiting for other dominos to fall first. Durant/ Irving situations before we can see other big trades going thru. If we land Collins, I think it would be via a 3 team trade where we get Collins and Barnes/ picks going to ATL or a 3rd team.
Giving up future picks now a problem due to the Stepien rule.
I’d bet a lot of the heavier moves will be bottled up until the KD fiasco resolves. Any team with a reasonable chance at getting Durant is going to be very deliberate. Once it settles, there will be a tsunami of signings and trades.
Not at all.
Apart from the Monk deal, there doesn’t appear to be much smoke on deals by Monte. And there ha sbeen a lot of persistent smoke around Collins to the Kings. Doesn’t seem to fit Monte’s M.O.
Counterpoint: I don’t think there was any smoke at all about the Huerter deal. We’d thrown his name around in here a bit, but if there was anything hinting that something like this was coming together, I missed it.
Caveat: I miss a great deal.
Only on this site, from my recollection.
What is the counterpoint? Aren’t we in agreement on this?
I may have misinterpreted what you said.
I was reading that as there not being any indication of deals from this point forward, instead of it describing deals up to this point.
Reupping my caveat. Why does that sentence seem so filthy?
Would you want Collins and his contract now with the roster as currently constructed?
If you can get him without giving up a pick I suppose but I don’t see ATL doing that.
Hawks were willing to move Collins without requiring the #4 pick, but they said Collins for Barnes was “underwhelming” The underwhelming was that instead of a 2023 #4, they wanted a future pick. Kings gave up that future pick for KH but did not give up HB.
Man, I was hoping for the other Kevin that currently is on Brooklyn’s roster. He’d be a pretty good get.
For the twenty minutes he was here before demanding out.
I don’t know that any player is good enough to be worth suffering their severe personality disorders.
Now this a move I can get behind.
so what was the deal for Atlanta? needed to cut salary next year and thereafter?
Dejounte happened.
Young, Murray and Bogi gives them a top flight guard rotation . They also let Delon Wright go . Still have Lou Williams for insurance .
Does Bogi contribute to the “top flight” rotation? Fairly injured and the production was down last season. Apparently he had another knee surgery.
Top flight? More like Air Medical Transport.
Young, Murray and literally anyone is a top flight guard rotation.
Stauskas????
You mean “NBA Finalist” Nik Stauskas?
Who now apparently plays for the Pacers.
Plays?
Mainly it’s about reuniting the Holiday boys. You know, except for the really good one.
I hope they can score 140/night as they have no proven D at all.
So nothing has changed in that regard.
Monte’s youth movement.
Out:
Holiday – 33
Harkless – 29
D. Jones – 27
Donte DiVincenzo – 25
In:
Kevin Huerter – 24
Malik Monk – 23
Keon Ellis – 22
Keegan Murray – 21
He acquired all those who are now out. Does not seem to be well planned strategy. Kind of random player acquisition.
Not random at all. When Monte started this process there was about 6 NBA level rotational players on the team. The fact that he was able to move the scrubs and get actual talent back is what competent GMs do and he did it while maintaining the flexibility to continue adding better NBA talent. That’s above average competency, IMO, the direct result of sticking to a strategy and not making impulse decisions.
Cheaper talent not necessarily better talent.
I would not have thought that there would be a need to point out that previously acquiring the players that were sent out this week has made it possible to add both Monk and Huerter, The same applies to acquisitions like Thompson, whose contract made it possible to pick up Sabonis.
But, as ever, here we are. Just because you or I don’t have a plan doesn’t mean that there is no plan.
This is a value pickup and will make the Kings better in the short run. I like King’s roster on paper in terms of watchability, and I will certainly be rooting for them.
My problem is more-so the unstated / stated goal of the team: to make the playoffs. While that’s nice, the goal really SHOULD be to contend.
At the end of the day, we are still betting on Fox as being 1A player and Sabonis being a 1B player, which is NOT a contending team. So this move buys at most an exciting 1-2 years where the Kings are mediocre, and maybe over-performing at best if coach can have them playing decent D.
But after that 2 year lease, we’ll be right back here wishing that we’d blown it up earlier like the Spurs, Thunder, etc. That’s the right way to do it. We need to draft more organic top-tier (future hall of fame) talent. On the current roster we have a low floor and low ceiling, the worst of both worlds.
Excellent summary.
The Kings won’t be a title contender w/this roster, but the Kings weren’t going to be 1 of the top tanking teams prior to this trade. Btw, I’d call Sabonis 1A & Fox 1B.
I’ll take it!
I’ll take 40 wins. Baby steps, amirite?
Mediocre is an enormous leap for this franchise!
Yep. Let’s not be the unskilled, uneducated, inexperienced, unemployed guy holding out for a c-suite offer.
Not if mediocre is the ceiling.
Yeah! Why don’t we do that every year?
Doesn’t every team need to do that? I didn’t realize there was so much HOF talent every draft.
The grass is so much greener on the other side, Mike. HoF players grow like weeds over there. Gotta use Roundup to kill ’em off there are so many!
Agree this roster isn’t winning a title. The goal should be relevance and then you can try and swing for the fences and get all the way (a la Toronto). What we can’t model, is the trajectory of a lot of younger pieces getting better. Monk improved last year (showing it’s possible, not that we should assume he will again), Davion can hopefully go up another gear or two, Murray, Huerter…even Fox there is hope for, playing in the best team of his professional career with players around him that make sense.
Optimistic is a word that died for me a long time ago WRT to the Kangz…but I feel like we’ve moved in the right direction over the past year or so…and damn it, I’ll take that.
I agree with you.
The Kings have to be good before they can be great, and having good players on good contracts, along with draft capital, is how you trade for great players, since great players are never free agents anymore.
No the goal should be a long term path to a sustainable winning franchise that can compete for a title.
There is no guarantee way to do that. Just because you are in the lottery every year doesn’t mean you will get HOF talent.
I’m a bit confused, Is the team not allowed to subsequently make deals/signings that add on to the current talent level over the course of those two years? Or is this roster now frozen in place?
You might be right…
But for all the tanking talk and it’s the “right way to do it” can anyone name me a team that did a concerted effort tank (trading best players for picks etc), intentionally winning 20 games for 2-3 years and it resulted in a contending team? Sixers and second round exits are about the best I can come up with off top of my head.
Spurs, Rockets, Magic, OKC might all turn out to be contenders. That’s still very much left to be proven.
I can think of a crap load of small market examples that built themselves into consistent teams accomplishing the same results as the tanking Sixers without completely bottoming out for years.
Boston?
Boston had Brooklyn’s picks. They didn’t tank.
I’ll summarize your excellent post for you Swipa…
Without superstars it really doesn’t matter.
Very good post. I don’t see a long term plan here and this will produce a short term sugar high that is not sustainable. The Kings need top end talent and to me this deal potentially makes it more difficult to obtain that. I remember soooo many times after a free agent signing, most that I thought were disasters and turned out to be, a temporary euphoria coming from the fan base. Just watch in two years franchises like Detroit and Indiana and certainly OKC win be ahead of us. Ask yourself why these franchises that looked totally hopeless just a few of years ago are legitimate playoff teams now while the Kings live in blissfully ignorance hoping for a playin spot. You’re right, you have to blow it up rebuild from the ground up. This is why the Kings continue to be the most embarrassing team in the league. We probably will win more games than Detroit next year but I rather have Detroits roster than ours.
So is the goal to have a contending team? Unless you think OKC, Detroit, and Indiana have a contending team. Last time I checked, they are not contending either.
The media loves to mention that Vivek is demanding we make the playoffs. It’s probably true. But I feel like every GM in the league is making moves with the intention of being one step closer to contending for a championship and not just “make the playoffs.”
Or you could blow it up and your next 4 picks don’t pan out and you are right back to where you were. By that time does anyone want to play for the Kings? Will there even be a fan base left? The problem with blowing it up is that there is no guarantee you will get a player as good as Fox or Sabonis back. Could it be a sound strategy? Yeah. But for a team with no winning history for like 20 years, not winning for another 4-5 years seems like a difficult sell.
Solid, solid trade. I normally would hate trading firsts but this one has good protections. Didn’t want to see any more Harkless or Holiday getting minutes. Roster is much better balanced now and younger. My faith in Monte is going up.
Gobert Gotominnesota
Best of luck, Donovan, although he may be gone, too.
Gotta figure Donovan is going. Utah didn’t get much present quality back and their current roster doesn’t offer much upside. Unless they’re going to flip those picks quick, they’re likely going full rebuild.
Jazz in dealing Mitchell considering the returns people are getting could build an extremely nice treasure trove/foundation.
Can I just say even with an outbound firsts in this Huerter deal, thank you Monte for not doing a behemoth monstrosity thats seems rampant trend. Maybe the Stepien protections will save us from ourself. Teams are being in my opinion insanely brash, and one if not more or going to get got Nets KG style. Find it really surprising in lieu of the KD news, and the Nets potentially entering NBA purgatory for like a decade the amount of firsts people are attaching for Murray, Gobert etc.
Stepien Rule Safety Factor – as GM McNair is on for possibly one more year. Aneel is less likely to Vlade when he steps up to the plate.
The thing is, even those Nets, who were probably in the worst team building position in modern NBA history, only spent 3 seasons outside the playoffs. I think, because of who we are, we tend to forget how rare it is for any team to spend more than a few years in the lottery in a row. At any given time, there are usually only 2 or 3 teams with active playoff droughts over 3 seasons.
True, but they were in a much weaker East. The West has had comparatively few years where there have been a week bottom half over the last few years. But the Nets did wonderfully to get themselves out of that mess…almost made it!!
The longest playoff drought in the West behind the Kings is the Spurs with 3 seasons. The the Thunder and Rockets with 2 and then, obviously a few teams with 1. Even in the West, it’s rare to stay outside the playoffs for long. In fact, the West seems to see more movement in playoff teams from year-to-year than the East.
Minny & Phoenix had long droughts fairly recently.
Which are now over, and even then you’re talking about 10% of NBA teams. These are outliers.
Make no mistake…I’m not excusing our historic incompetence. Just think we might have snuck into the playoffs in the east one of those times. Like Charlotte probably never makes a West playoff team in the past X years. I don’t recall them getting above 6 which wouldn’t have been a playoff team in the west. We suck, it’s ridiculous how bad we’ve sucked and there is no argument that nobody has done a worse job over the past 16 years (sheds single tear)
It’s all speculation, but I think the conference difference is overstated and has been for the past few seasons.
There hasn’t been a major difference for the last few seasons, but there was a major difference for most of the drought. I think the DMC-Rudy Kings could’ve made the playoffs at least once if the Kings had been in the East at that time.
Agreed. There were some cupcake years in the East that we MAY have skated by in, but now it’s pretty even.
It might be fairer to say that the West has more top-end players, but may not have better contending teams than does the East.
This could all be hooey.
No, no, no. The Nets had a horrible roster, virtually no draft capital and no cap space and they turned it around. The Kings have no excuses for their dismal position.
They are a destination for all-star players. We are not.
Half the teams make it every year. Missing or making the playoffs as you say is not that much of a barometer. In relation to the kings I think a consistent trend of being short sided conversely has kept the drought alive opposed to quicker/dramatic resets.
On that Nets situation that may be true, it also doesn’t paint just how impressive Sean Marks was during those years. The offer sheet strategy, eating albatrosses, strategic overpays, really good use of late firsts and just giving showcase minutes to myriad of scouted reclamation projects that proved positive on their team or eventually as assets.
That precedent that that will be replicated by other teams at the same level of competence I would say is doubtful. Maybe by the Nets themselves.
i actually like what Utah is doing. They have many options and moving Mitchell is not necessarily the direction they have to go. They could go big game hunting now or they could blow it up and trade Michell for a bunch of drafts picks some young flyers and cap future cap space or they can build around Mitchell. I like the position Utah is in right now.
Gobert – 5 firsts. George – 4 firsts. Dejounte – 2 firsts. Derrick White – 1 first.
Sabonis – 0 firsts.
Great job on that one, Monte.
Hali’s more valuable than a lot of 1sts.
I dunno about a lot. Love Hali but how many 1sts? Don’t forget we got rid of Buddy too with that one.
And a piece of what came back allowed us to acquire Huerter.
That is why it is so hard to look at and grade individual moves, in my opinion. Moves are always setting up other moves.
I still feel like Monte is hunting something bigger. I would be surprised if Barnes and Holmes are still on the roster by the trade deadline.
I meant that he’s more valuable than mid-late 1st rounders.
I would like to have Jalen Smith on a 2 year BAE deal. Next I would like something similar to a Barnes/Holmes/TD/pick swap deal for a higher quality starting player. And to top these moves off, If Divincenzo is only getting BAE or TPMLE deals, he may like a 2/16 deal to be a backup wing.
Sounds like you’ve mistaken this franchise for the Burger Kings, where they make it your way…
Did I just go back in time and fall into an nba multi verse with different versions of buddy and bogy on the team? Unfortunately we didn’t draft Luka in this version neither 🙁 but at least they’re younger, cheaper, and we have a better frontcourt!
You definitely fell into something.
Donovan doesn’t want to go through the inevitable rebuild, no matter what the Jazz FO is spewing. Neither does an aging Conley.
I humbly propose it’s time to consider the all Mitchell backcourt:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=22j6vd6h
Sacramento sends an unprotected first to Utah.
If you don’t love Fox’s defensive effort, you’re going to really not love Donovan Mitchell’s defensive effort.
No kidding. Mitchell is one of the worst defenders I have ever seen. Yikes.
Yes. People’s obsession with Donovan Mitchell baffles me. He has the exact same weaknesses as Fox. He is a better shooter but Fox is better at distribution.
If you want to have a laugh, go look at the comments in the thread about DiVincenzo not being offered the QO. Pure comedic gold.
I’ve tried to resist writing this…glad you are petty enough to do it for me Sims! 😉
To be fair there was some wait and see takes…also followed by a number of Monte just gave DDV for nothing and has no plan.
One may not agree with Montes moves or plan…that’s fine. But it feels like the narrative of he isn’t willing to make moves (aggressive) or develop a plan should be put to bed.
I sensed it, Wiz. Could be that some of us see a bit more clearly because when we look up, the sky isn’t constantly falling. None of it is insight, it’s more about not defaulting to freak-out mode.
As you said, wait and see. Just because today’s moves seem good doesn’t mean that it’s great times ahead. “We’ll see,” said the Zen master.
First of all, they haven’t played a game yet, so slow down. Second, some of your Buddy Hield takes last season…
I assure you that you don’t want to start digging into each other’s crates of comments.
My point exactly, so let’s not pat ourselves on the back until this org shows us they have a good product.
The article about DiVincenzo and the one about Huerter were less than forty-eight hours apart. The time between the two was like being in a psych ward during a full moon.
Go dig! I look forward to having my words thrown in my face.
It definitely makes sense in context, and the fact that Donte DiVincenzo only got part of the Tax MLE from GSW on what essentially is a make good deal for DDV.
It’s funny how quickly these things change.
That was part of what made it all so dumb. Free agency hadn’t even begun, and Chicken Little and his two hundred clones were high on crack and at their keyboards.
I like this.. yesterday I mentioned finding a way to trade for Huerta… so I want to trade TD for either of the Bridges and Barnes for Tatum and Fox for Doncic and Holmes for JJJ
i hope one of them happens..
really like this pick up!
One a dem Bridges is falling down
Falling down
Falling down
I can’t believe how colossally stupid he is. Not only is he a POS person for what he did, but he was less than a week away from receiving generation-changing money had he only been able to figure out that you don’t assault people.
I didn’t know that that stuff was happening, so definitely mark his ass off the list. Glad nobody flagged me because I honestly didn’t know
Well, you did say either of the Bridges, so don’t sweat it. Full disclosure: I haven’t been able to, without looking it up, been able to remember which one is which since they got to the leagues.
This will probably help.
Kings got a couple of average to slightly above average NBA players that are still young, on decent contracts, and complement the core guys. This is great. If Mike Brown can figure out how to play defense with this group, they’ll be a decent team. I have to say, the team is certainly better than it was before the draft.
I’m (cautiously) liking where this is going.
Now let’s get John collins and called it a off season. Barnes, Holmes, drop the lottery protections on the 2024 pick, and 2 2nd rounders we acquired from the mavs in the Jaden Hardy trade. Defense would be sketchy but coach brown could make it work. As a bonus we free up our future 1st to use in another transaction if an impact player suddenly becomes available at the deadline or next off season. Do the Hawks take that offer?
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