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Kings 116, Suns 109: Do not go gentle into that good night

If the Kings win and nobody is watching, does it make a sound?
By | 69 Comments | Apr 10, 2022

Apr 10, 2022; Phoenix, Arizona, USA; Sacramento Kings guard Davion Mitchell (15) against the Phoenix Suns during the second half at Footprint Center. Mandatory Credit: Mark J. Rebilas-USA TODAY Sports

Someday we’ll look back on this season and laugh.

Someday this season will just be one of many speed bumps that we endured in the dark times. This will be the dark period in the memories of Kings fans. Because right now we’re still in the muck, mired in Year 16 of a playoff drought with no immediate end in sight. But this too shall pass.

Tonight the Kings defeated the Phoenix Suns in Game 82 of a season where each team’s fate was already decided. The Kings entered the night locked into the 7th seed in the NBA Draft Lottery, and the Suns had secured the top seed in the Western Conference with 64 wins. It’s the second year in a row that the Suns have won the West, and it serves as a beacon of hope for how quickly a franchise can change its fortunes. In 2018-19, just three years ago, the Suns were finishing a 19-win season. The Suns fired Igor Kokoskov and hired Monty Williams. A season later the Suns acquired Chris Paul, and ended a 10-year playoff drought.

The Kings will almost surely fire Alvin Gentry in the hours following this game, and will have an opportunity to hire their own coach to usher Sacramento back to success (we’re going to choose not to dwell on the fact that Sacramento could have hired Monty Williams three years ago). The Kings can’t afford to miss on their next head coach.

The Kings will look to make a leap from perpetual lottery dweller to a team solidly in the playoffs. The Minnesota Timberwolves did it this year, going from 23 wins last season (26 wins if we adjust for the 72 game season) to 46 wins this year.

But Greg, to go from this year’s 30 wins to the playoffs would be a huge increase! And it would. But the Kings themselves have pulled off a 12 game improvement in a single season, and not that long ago. The Kings went from 27 wins to 39 wins in Dave Joerger’s third season with the team. I’m not telling you it’s likely to happen next year, I’m just saying it’s possible. And until we get to the other side of this drought, the power of what’s possible is really all we have to hang onto.

Tonight we watched a Kings team face the Phoenix Suns, but it will look very little like the Kings team that will tip off next season. Davion Mitchell played 40 minutes, finishing with 18 points and 15 assists, capping his end of season run that will leave us wondering about his long term fit alongside or behind De’Aaron Fox in the rotation. Damian Jones finished with 19 points, tied with Justin Holiday and Donte DiVincenzo to lead the Kings in scoring. Jones will be a free agent, and there’s questions about if he’d return to the Kings, or if the Kings could move Richaun Holmes and Alex Len so that it would even make sense to keep Jones. DiVincenzo came off the bench, leaving us to continue wondering how much better the Kings might be if he starts at shooting guard. And of course this win, like multiple others these last few weeks, came without De’Aaron Fox and Domantas Sabonis, leaving us wondering what this team will truly look like next season.

We leave this season, just as we have the 15 seasons before, with more questions than answers. Monte McNair has a tightrope to walk on his path to success next season. We’ll have plenty more discussion ahead in the days and weeks to come.

In the meantime, we close the books on the 2021-22 season for the Sacramento Kings.

Good riddance.

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RandyBreuersNeckHair
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April 10, 2022 10:15 pm

Peace out.

RikSmits
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April 10, 2022 10:27 pm

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KDsBurnerAccount
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April 10, 2022 11:17 pm

First time in a while that a season felt truly disappointing. A lot of times the season ended on a good note (just another piece here, another year of development from xxx, an offseason for xxx to gel with his new team, Year 2 of coach to install his system). There was at least SOMETHING in which to look forward.

But not this year. The Fox/Barnes led teams have peaked, and it’s not like the Kings improved dramatically with the addition of Sabonis.

And the worst part is, the Kings are a year behind due to the late firing of Luke Walton. Had they done the right thing last offseason and hire a new coach, we could have gotten rid of the ‘growing pains/system install’ THIS year. Now we have to deal with that next year.

Actually, never mind… the WORST part is that Ownership will still have an agenda to push for a playoff spot, though at least the pressure of AVOIDING the NBA record for longest playoff drought is lifted (cause you know, it already happened).

Thank you to all Kings Herald contributors for yet another season of content. I’m sure you all have days where you feel what you are doing is pointless, but we really do appreciate all that you do!

Daydreamer
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April 11, 2022 6:13 am

Yes, TKH writers and commenters, THANK YOU!!!

Klam
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Nostradumbass 18
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April 11, 2022 7:18 am

Seconded

Thank you to all Kings Herald contributors for yet another season of content. I’m sure you all have days where you feel what you are doing is pointless, but we really do appreciate all that you do!

alec26
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April 10, 2022 11:39 pm

One good thing. The Kings won their last game of the season. How many teams win their last game of the season? All the playoff teams lose their last game except the champion. How many non-playoff teams win their last game? When was the last time the Kings won their last game of the season?

Gregoryl
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April 11, 2022 12:27 am
Reply to  alec26

Too many questions!!

andy_sims
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April 11, 2022 10:03 am
Reply to  alec26

The Kings won their last game of the season. How many teams win their last game of the season?

…Half of them?

alec26
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April 11, 2022 1:22 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

You’d think, except all the playoff teams but one lose their last game of the year. Last game of their year rather than last game of the regular season. That leaves the non-playoff teams, some who lose to playoff teams. Four teams this year: Kings, Knicks, Magic and Lakers, plus the 21/22 NBA champion.

Last edited 2 years ago by alec26
andy_sims
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April 11, 2022 3:02 pm
Reply to  alec26

The playoffs aren’t the season.

Mike120
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April 11, 2022 11:51 am
Reply to  alec26

what is 15?

Klam
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April 10, 2022 11:54 pm

And that concludes your Sacramento Kings 2021-22 season…
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Brown.says.Good.or.Bad
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April 10, 2022 11:55 pm

What’s another bad season between friends?
30 wins. Lordy.

RPO
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RPO
April 10, 2022 11:56 pm

Because right now we’re still in the muck, mired in Year 16 of a playoff drought with no immediate end in sight. But this too shall pass.

Man, I wish I could believe that. With that sh*thead Vivek calling the shots? “No end in sight” is right.

Last edited 2 years ago by RPO
HongKongKingsFan
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April 11, 2022 12:46 am

This season review would be interesting.

From the coach change, mid-season trade, how injury affected the record (TD, Fox, Sabonis), etc

eddie41
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April 11, 2022 10:27 am

It was actually an active season in terms of roster improvements. Added Sabonis, Mitchell and Divincenzo. Traded Hield and Bagley. Only loss was Haliburton.

There’s another big off season ahead with another top 10 pick (possibly top 4) and a search for a new head coach. Plus some trade possibilities with the expiring contracts.

Kings-Rebuild
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April 11, 2022 10:36 am
Reply to  eddie41

I don’t think the pieces are there for a quicker, long term sustainable turnaround. Over this 16 year drought, the strategy has never been to adopt a full throttle longer term rebuild plan and we’ve paid a bitter price for this cognitive dissonance approach.

eddie41
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April 11, 2022 7:59 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

the kings could have drafted every player on the Warriors championship teams, not to mention Lillard, Kawhi, Donavan Mitchell, and, Doncic.

satdawg
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April 11, 2022 12:24 pm
Reply to  eddie41

Don’t expect anything big pal, only minor improvements in free agency and the 7th pick in the nba draft

ScottyPop
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April 11, 2022 7:24 am

So, when we gonna talk about that Sacramento bee article from yesterday?

Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 7:40 am
Reply to  ScottyPop

So, when we gonna talk about that Sacramento bee article from yesterday?

I’m thinking there isn’t much in there that was news to anyone around here and they aren’t wont to put up another anti-Vivek Ranadive thread for the umpteenth time.

I suspect there might be a link dump or two once Gentry is relieved of his duties (thank goodness for Alvin; he didn’t deserve this dumpster fire paid or not) and that might get thrown in there along with James Ham’s musings about Ranadive needing to let go of the reins.

Honestly, i mean, if you’re a hardcore fan there was almost nothing really revealing about that. What I found revealing about it, mostly, was that there was so much anti-Vivek Ranadive distaste that Jason Anderson could even write a piece about it and probably feel comfortable writing it without much pushback. What Jerry said, the anonymous exec and owner, none of that was especially news or surprising (in the case of preferring Kemba Walker to Jimmer Fredette, maybe that was a smidge surprising to some but I didn’t find it especially surprising or anything).

If Monte McNair is truly in control of this tiger, and he might have finally swung Vivek’s ass onto the ground after a 2 year struggle, we’ll know it. We don’t need to spill 8 trillion words lamenting it. I know 300 words on my part may not be the best illustration of that fact, but that’s just my view on why they haven’t done it. That, and with so much space to fill between now and the draft, there’s plenty of time to run with it if you so choose.

Last edited 2 years ago by Kingsguru21
Carl
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April 11, 2022 8:51 am
Reply to  Greg

the discussion will still be relevant today or tomorrow or even next week.

Or next year, or five years from now.

Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 8:52 am
Reply to  Carl

Or next year, or five years from now.

I hope not Spackler. And I know you wholeheartedly agree with that even if you are not going to be optimistic it will happen. After all, your pessimism isn’t entirely unwarranted. The Kings, and Ranadive in particular, have earned the disdain he’s getting right now.

Carl
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April 11, 2022 9:29 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Things can always change. If the Kings would just have done the blindingly obvious thing in 2018, they’re probably sitting at the 4 seed and the conversation is how they add the one piece needed to get into championship contention. There is a game changing player drafted almost every year between 5 and 10. But hope is not a plan, and the front office should be aggressive this offseason in adding a Barnes plus level player, or this team is going to top out at just under mediocre.

Last edited 2 years ago by Carl
Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 9:33 am
Reply to  Carl

 But hope is not a plan, and I certainly hope the front office is aggressive this offseason in adding a Barnes plus level player.

I think Monte has a plan. I just wonder if Ranadive will get out of his way and actually let him execute it.

1951
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April 11, 2022 10:23 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Monte may have a plan, but then what does Joe Dumars do?

And what happens when Monte tells Vivek about a move (draft pick, trade, etc.) in furtherance of the plan and Joe’s advice to Vivek is something different?

Does Monte suddenly lose his “no really, he is in charge, believe me this time” status?

We shall see, or maybe we shall never know.

Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 11:49 am
Reply to  1951

Monte may have a plan, but then what does Joe Dumars do?

And what happens when Monte tells Vivek about a move (draft pick, trade, etc.) in furtherance of the plan and Joe’s advice to Vivek is something different?

Does Monte suddenly lose his “no really, he is in charge, believe me this time” status?

We shall see, or maybe we shall never know.

I think we will see in the moves that are made. I think we will see in the coaching search. But, what does Dumars do? We don’t know that. How much involvement does Dumars have? We don’t know that.

This is a Vivek Ranadive FO where Monte McNair holds the GM title whatever the fuck that means. I would like to claim it’s a Monte McNair FO, but it’s really not.

Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 8:51 am
Reply to  Greg

I’m not surprised you are putting anything up, just that there was no urgency to. Like you say, the discussion will be relevant if you put it up next Monday.

ForKingsandCountry
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April 11, 2022 10:06 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Yeah it’s funny, I actually don’t think there’s much more to be said. Vivek is a terrible owner and our only hope is that he sells the team or he actually hands the keys to somebody competent. That’s kind of it.

RikSmits
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April 11, 2022 10:48 am

Agreed. There will probably no more than 10 comments when that article comes out. Maybe 20.

Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 12:38 pm
Reply to  RikSmits

Agreed. There will probably no more than 10 comments when that article comes out. Maybe 20.

There will be more than 20. Question is will it be about the topic at hand.

keith_kar
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April 11, 2022 7:27 am

I agree with Greg here, there is no immediate end in sight for the King’s 16 year playoff drought. Even with the return of a healthy Fox/Ox next season, and with the way this roster is constructed, I don’t see this translating to many more wins than 30, even next season.

Monte has his work cut out for him starting now, but it’s not going to just take a couple of tweaks to turn this ship around.

If Sabonis still sees a sinking ship in the final year of his contract, him potentially leaving may set the Kings back even farther.

We’ll see if this drought shall soon pass.

rockbottom
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April 11, 2022 8:56 am
Reply to  keith_kar

Agree with both as breaking the 16 year record breaking dive will require too many great moves to count on .( draft, trades, FA and Coach ). Another 10,11,or 12th place looms .

Kings-Rebuild
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April 11, 2022 9:18 am
Reply to  rockbottom

Another 10-12 place finish is not a problem if you do it with a young developing roster and a stockpile of draft picks. It is fallacy to assume a coach can turnaround this roster, we simply need better players and IMO it’s going to take a methodical rebuild over several years to get that done. If we are going to change the coach, let’s go out of the box and get someone like Randy Bennet at St. Mary’s. I share your frustrations and enjoy your comments.

keith_kar
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April 11, 2022 11:09 am
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Yes, I wouldn’t mind another 10-12th place finish, if we can do it with a younger, developing roster, and promising coach. The last thing I want to see is another group of retreads coming in to keep the illusion going of making the play-in tournament.

Kings-Rebuild
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April 11, 2022 8:49 am

I think management is going to have to realize that this will require a slow methodical rebuild and there’s no way around it. They have to drop the illusion that they are just one player or one move away and bite the bullet and go through the process the right way.

These guys, Barnes, Holmes, Holiday, Harkless have to go immediately for whatever draft capital or cap space they can get. Unfortunately they are going to have to strongly consider moving Sabonis because I can’t see them turning this around soon enough for him to want to stay and I fear him walking and we get nothing. Not sure what the possibilities may be but let’s see where the draft balls fall first. Maybe Sabonis for Portland’s first round pick this year and 2024 and Zach Collins. They say they are regrouping with Lillard so Sabonis would be a nice fit there. You also have to look at moving Fox perhaps to Boston for Nesmith, Pritchard, Horford, 2022 first and 2024 first.

I think it’s the OKC model and not the Bulls model we need to follow. By clearing house maybe you walk away with a haul Murray, Duren, Mathurin, and Koloko.
This roster wouldn’t win much next year but it would be exciting and interesting to watch. Whatever, go young and stockpile some draft picks. If the coach is going to be changed how about Randy Bennett from St. Mary’s.

Mitchell, Pritchard
Mathurin, TD
Murray, Nesmith
Lyles, Horford, Collins
Duren, Koloko Len

RikSmits
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April 11, 2022 10:49 am
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

I think management is going to have to realize that this will require a slow methodical rebuild and there’s no way around it. 

This is the point where Vivek stopped reading.

Kings-Rebuild
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April 11, 2022 10:51 am
Reply to  RikSmits

You’re probably/surely right unfortunately.

AmateurNerd
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April 11, 2022 12:23 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

These Silicon Valley whizzes all have career ADHD. They switch jobs and companies constantly in search of the next big thing. Vivek is very much in this mold. He can’t commit to a long-term rebuild because it goes against his very nature. Even a single full season of patience is torture to someone like him.

RobHessing
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April 11, 2022 9:36 am

3rd worst season for achievement of goals in the NBA this year? I have only the Lakers, Knicks and Pacers as bigger flops – the Pacers being just slightly more disappointing than the Kings. But add to that…

There were six teams with worse records than the Kings (Indy among them), but Hou, OKC, Ind and Por all have multiple 1st round picks coming up. Orl and Det are positioned for good 1st round picks and have a lot of cap space, as does Por and Ind. It’s close, but I give the tie break to the Pacers. Of course, the vagaries of the bouncing ping pong balls could change that a bit. I won’t argue one over the other, so 3rd-4th worst season, depending on how you want to slot the Kings and Pacers.

Right now it is difficult to see the current roster as being anything better than 10th in the West next year, and even that would take a confluence of events, such as Utah blowing it up (not going to happen), Zion leaving NO (could happen but would the return package for him make the Pels worse or better?), Pop retiring and SA embracing the tank (perhaps on the former, doubtful on the latter), and the Lakers not turning it around (anyone’s guess). Objectively, the Kings would rate out right around 11th-13th right now.

The Kings need to add a player that is better than Barnes, but if the cost of adding that player is Barnes, the improvement is incremental, the net of the incoming vs. the outgoing. That is, a John Collins for Barnes / pick trade probably makes you somewhere between incrementally better and a wash. They have $15m tied up at backup center. They need a baseline to baseline coaching staff.

The path is narrow. The ruts on each side of the path are wide. We could very well be counting ping pong balls for the next several years.

Your move, Kangz.

Last edited 2 years ago by RobHessing
Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 9:37 am

Luke Walton 6 wins/11 losses. 35.2 winning percentage
Alvin Gentry 24 wins/41 losses 36.9 winning percentage

What an upgrade Gentry over Walton turned out to be. Congratulations Vivek Ranadive, you really hit it out of the park on this one.

RobHessing
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April 11, 2022 9:38 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Making Gentry the interim for Walton was not the issue. Not firing Walton at the end of last season was the issue.

Kings-Rebuild
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April 11, 2022 10:42 am
Reply to  RobHessing

Neither was the issue. Nobody wins with this roster. There are not 6 worst rosters in the NBA and our record reflects our roster not who is coaching the team.

keith_kar
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April 11, 2022 11:02 am
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Agree on that. The roster is the issue. Not firing Walton at the end of last season didn’t set the Kings timeline back at all.

AmateurNerd
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April 11, 2022 12:26 pm
Reply to  keith_kar

The issue with the Walton non-firing is that it delayed the inevitable. Everyone knew Walton was going to be fired, because everyone know the Kings were not going to meet the goals publicly set by the F.O. before the season began. Keeping Walton was just a way to show the team was “stable” and had “continuity” (which, honestly, has been in such short supply that I kinda get it). It was a national PR move.

andy_sims
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April 11, 2022 10:00 am
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Would you have preferred that McNair made a rushed decision to get a new head coach? Unless someone with incredible credentials has been taking the year off, who would that be? And even if, how is this coach going to paper over the most critical problem, that being that the Kings simply have inferior talent compared to the rest of the league?

Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 11:22 am
Reply to  andy_sims

What I would have preferred is this. If you’re going to roll with Luke Walton to start the season, finish it with him. Maybe you get lucky, but you probably do not. Then, and I know this is a novel concept and all, you fire your head coach in the offseason when you believe it’s time to make a change. There is an appropriate and inappropriate time to do things.

What I don’t prefer is to fire a head coach for an interim head coach in November. That tells me you didn’t want the head coach at all, that tells me you don’t value synergy or continuity and that tells me that ulterior motives like money and optics are ultimately what matter to you. There’s nothing about that that I will consider good practice Sims.

You and I disagree about how bad Walton was. But you will never convince me that firing a coach the way the Kings did with Walton is useful unless absolutely necessary. There was nothing in what Walton was doing that suggested firing him was absolutely necessary. It was done out of desperation and done out of selfishness to deflect blame from many previous poor decisions.

Will it ultimately matter much? Eh, who knows. I don’t, you don’t. I get that so many didn’t like Walton, and that’s fine. Plenty of fans thought Rick Adelman wasn’t that good of a head coach (as dumb as that was) either.

What I’m hoping for is there is a clean slate with roster upgrades this summer. My sense is if McNair is in control of this thing by now (which seems like it), I might even get my wish. Even the negative nellies around here might even think this roster has a shot at success. That’d be sumpin, wouldn’t it?

andy_sims
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April 11, 2022 12:46 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

All very sensible, but for it to have happened that way, someone above the GM would have needed to sign off on shitcanning Walton, so that McNair could have moved things along.

From what I’ve seen, two things that Monte McNair is not, is stupid, or sentimental. I’d bet he’d have fired Walton the day he took the job had he the leeway, and twice at the end of last season. I’d wager that if you polled every person who’s held GM reigns over the last decade, the only two who would say that Walton was a smart hire are VD and Rob Pelinka.

There cannot possibly be any two things that seem more natural together than VD and Rob Pelinka.

eddie41
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April 11, 2022 9:46 am

Mitchell had 15 assists to 1 turnover.

keith_kar
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April 11, 2022 11:00 am
Reply to  eddie41

Mitchell is very good in these areas. He’s getting better at distributing the ball, has good handles, and quickness.

As opposed to Hali, who is a superior shooter, but can be a defensive liability and turnover machine at times. I recently glanced an Indiana box score, and Hali had a pretty good scoring night, but committed 6 TO’s.

eddie41
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April 11, 2022 8:05 pm
Reply to  keith_kar

I’m surprised Haliburton had 6 TO’s. He’s always had a very good assist to turnover ratio.

andy_sims
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April 11, 2022 9:58 am

I’m having trouble, it seems, squaring this particular circle:

Davion Mitchell played 40 minutes, finishing with 18 points and 15 assists, capping his end of season run that will leave us wondering about his long term fit alongside or behind De’Aaron Fox in the rotation.

My assumption is that this is a reference to Tyrese Haliburton being traded, and suggests that any Kings guard with some facility for distributing the ball is at risk of being shipped out of town. As I said, this is my assumption, and if I have it wrong, I certainly have no problem in saying so.

Is this the impression that some have, that this was the reason that Haliburton was traded? It doesn’t add up for me.

A case could be made that with the emergence of Mitchell, Haliburton became less critical to the plan going forward, and I’d think that there is some truth to that. My read is less that the front office was suddenly actively shopping Haliburton, but more along the lines that the locked room where he was kept (our hearts), had the door opened just a crack.

There is no way to know, but I would think that McNair would have preferred to trade almost anyone other than Haliburton. Ty was his first draft selection, and very quickly showed that a bunch of other teams had absolutely blown it, letting him slide to twelve. More than that, Haliburton had shown that he was the type of player who could fit in easily on almost any team, assuming you surround him with some decent on-ball defenders.

Which takes us back to the trade. It was Hield’s salary that made the trade for Sabonis possible, but clearly, the Pacers wanted Haliburton first and foremost. You don’t send an all-star out of town unless you’re getting someone very good or very promising (or both) in return. There’s no way that McNair put Haliburton on the table initially, but Indiana likely made it very clear that he would be involved, or there was nothing to talk about. And that was that.

Further, you make that trade ten times out of ten. You clear out some of the logjam at guard, add a player who instantly improves the team’s ability to get rebounds, and who can run an offense with real skill. The transaction was perfectly logical from both team’s perspectives.

To repeat, my interpretation of comments of this nature may be entirely incorrect, but I don’t expect any impetus to push Mitchell out of town if he continues to competently run an offense. But if you can send him out, maybe with Holmes or Barnes to get a solid 3&D wing?

Ten times out of ten.

rockbottom
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April 11, 2022 10:15 am
Reply to  andy_sims

I think Davion is a great prospect to build with . He is more a proven winner than Fox or Hali .

Kings-Rebuild
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April 11, 2022 10:28 am
Reply to  rockbottom

Agree. From that position, distribution and elevating others makes you good/great. Fox doesn’t distribute well nor does he elevate others significantly IMO. Mitchell is a cheaper and perhaps a more effective long term option and will provide us more flexibility to make other moves.

andy_sims
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April 11, 2022 1:05 pm
Reply to  Kings-Rebuild

Fox has averaged 6.2 assists per game for his career, and that’s factoring in a drop to 5.2 in the ’21-22 season. His ability to get the ball to open shooters really isn’t in question.

As far as elevating those around him, you can’t simply disregard who those players are. A plus-talent like Harrison Barnes, has had two of his best seasons with Fox running the offense. I think we’ll see Sabonis also have an uptick in his game playing with Fox.

It’s fine to factor in contracts when evaluating players, but it can’t be the largest determinant of what to do with players who have overlapping skillsets. Particularly when it’s generally agreed that one definitely has all-star level talent, even if he’s not been named an all-star. (Fox had a very strong case last season.) I’d say that once again, the discrepancy falls at the feet of the quality of players that he’s run with since being drafted, and to some extent, the inertia that fans and sportswriters have in their predilection to pick the same name-brand players over and over.

It shouldn’t be a problem to have both guys getting heavy minutes, and if you get the opportunity to add a young all-star like Sabonis then you have to give sending one of them out the strong consideration that it deserves.

Haliburton wasn’t moved to make Fox feel better, or even to free up minutes for Mitchell. It was a move to add talent in an area where the Kings sorely needed it, with the luxury of having a player like Mitchell ready to fill the slot.

kings4ever
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April 11, 2022 10:28 am
Reply to  andy_sims

What you are saying is correct but I think you short change our GM by saying “you make the trade 10X out of 10X” as if he was a passive participant, the deal was proposed to him and he said “okay”.

He orchestrated the trade. He defined the terms of the deal and said take it or leave it. He said agree to MY terms or we will look elsewhere, say, move Fox to NYK for Randle.

The reason I say this is a probable occurence is because (1) pre-deadline scuttlebutt that IND was looking for a Vucevic like return for Sabonis, and didn’t get it, and (2) the deal happened two days prior to the deadline, leading me to think that we forced their decision.

You don’t think IND wanted our pick? Or Barnes in place of Hield? I think they tried and were denied.

There is no way to know, but I would think that McNair would have preferred to trade almost anyone other than Haliburton. Ty was his first draft selection, and very quickly showed that a bunch of other teams had absolutely blown it, letting him slide to twelve. More than that, Haliburton had shown that he was the type of player who could fit in easily on almost any team, assuming you surround him with some decent on-ball defenders

Monte McGenius drafted Haliburton though he knew it would create a talent overlap because he felt that Ty would have the probable highest future trade value. Maybe they would find harmony together but in the event they did not he had the best trade chip to upgrade the overall talent base.

What evidence do you have to suggest Davion and Fox were not ranked over Ty in the eyes of the GM? Ty is younger and superior shooter and shot creator but less explosive and less able to keep his man in front of him.

If you don’t get into the lane and cant stop the point of attack opponent you are NOT elite.

What Ty provides in floor leadership and shooting he lacks in penetration and defense. IND has actually looked like shit a lot of the time under his guidance including crunch time. Over the similar time period, Davion has outperformed Ty. And he destroyed him head-to-head.

Here’s my breakdown of that game:

Davion Destroys Ty

You are probably right that IND wanted Ty and not Fox. But it is also not a certainty that we wanted Ty over Fox. Fox is better suited to be a primary scorer with Sabonis. Neither Ox or Ty are well-suited to be a primary scorer. It is much more complementary relationship with Fox scoring 28 PPG , Ox 22 PPG than to expect Ty or Sabonis to go out and get you 25 PPG.

andy_sims
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April 11, 2022 10:58 am
Reply to  kings4ever

No argument from me on that, I don’t think that McNair was a passive party in the talks, only that the Pacers likely made acquiring Haliburton for Sabonis non-negotiable. I feel like this was a sensible position for the Pacers, and McNair saw it as such. I have no knowledge as to which party actually made Haliburton & Sabonis the foundational aspect of the deal, but given that the Pacers were obviously considering moving on from Sabonis, and that there’s nothing to suggest that McNair wanted to trade Haliburton, that was the logic behind my supposition.

I’m sure that Indiana would have liked getting a pick, but on his own, Haliburton serves the same purpose, with the added bonus of being a proven NBA player, still on a rookie deal. I can’t say whether McNair drafted Haliburton with the specific intention of trading him during his rookie deal. I think that McNair is a very shrewd operator, but there are so many things that needed to fall into place in order to have an opportunity like this, that I can’t buy into the notion that this was the plan on draft night in 2020.

Last edited 2 years ago by andy_sims
Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 11:53 am
Reply to  andy_sims

I can’t say whether McNair drafted Haliburton with the specific intention of trading him during his rookie deal.

Generally speaking, I think you bring in players to help you win games or help you as assets to get players who can help you win. But that’s my view on it.

AmateurNerd
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April 11, 2022 12:31 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

How badly did the Pacers want Hali to accept Hield along with him?

Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 12:40 pm
Reply to  AmateurNerd

How badly did the Pacers want Hali to accept Hield along with him?

I think the Pacers will have an easier time trading Hield than the Kings did. In part because of the Sacramento stink attached to Hield. Even though Hield wasn’t actually much better under Carlisle than he was under Walton to start the year, there is a perception that Hield improved by just leaving Sac fair or no.

andy_sims
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April 11, 2022 1:13 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

Buddy’s stats have been pretty good since arriving in Indiana, nearly tripling his assists per game. This isn’t an argument to have kept him, but I’m pretty sure that other teams and the fans of other teams feel anywhere near the disdain that Kings fans do.

And Hield is hardly alone in that regard.

1951
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April 11, 2022 10:20 am

Greg and TKH, the beacon of homeristic optimism!

KingOfTheMonsters
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April 11, 2022 10:54 am

Another lost season.
However, I still come to this site several times a week, if only because I cherish the validation the green checkmark gives me every time I click on the “I am not a robot” box.

Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 11:18 am

And Alvin Gentry is out. More chaos in the kingdom.

andy_sims
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April 11, 2022 1:14 pm
Reply to  Kingsguru21

I may be mistaken, but when a thing that everyone expected to happen actually does, that is the polar opposite of chaos.

Kingsguru21
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April 11, 2022 1:34 pm
Reply to  andy_sims

You are mistaken. Often. I’ve got receipts. Or something. It’s chaos cuz I say it’s chaos, goddammit!*

  • = I was also being flip, but details are stupid
murraytant
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April 14, 2022 3:29 pm

the sound is a soft thud that no one heard.

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