The Sacramento Kings have been the subject of a multitude of trade rumors. After weeks of Harrison Barnes rumors, Nemanja Bjelica speculation, Buddy Hield trade machine ideas, Richaun Holmes hold ’em or fold ’em debates, and half dozen reports of good players the Kings pursued but didn’t get, Kings fans are understandably anxious.
All this begs the question, is this a make-or-break trade deadline for the Sacramento Kings?
This may seem premature. After all, McNair has only been on the job since September. It feels a lot longer, but it’s only been six months. McNair had an abbreviated offseason, but during that offseason he allowed Bogdan Bogdanovic, Alex Len, Harry Giles, and Kent Bazemore to leave for nothing.
McNair replaced those departing players with Hassan Whiteside, Glenn Robinson III, Chimezie Metu, and rookies Tyrese Haliburon, Robert Woodard II, and Jahmi’us Ramsey. Of those additions, Haliburton has been very good, and Metu has been a nice surprise for a player on a two-way deal. Whiteside has been predictably disappointing, even for a player on a minimum contract. Glenn Robinson III was waived. Woodard and Ramsey have been limited to garbage time minutes.
In other words, the offseason gave the Kings Haliburton and not much else.
We know from a variety of reports that the Kings weren’t anxious to turn things around immediately. This was the “gap year”. But it’s still reasonable for Kings fans to expect progress, or at the very least some sign of the plan that is being executed.
What’s funny is that Kings fans can’t even come to a consensus as to whether the Kings should be tearing this team down or trying to build it back up, and yet pretty much everyone is anxious to see the team do something.
It’s highly unlikely (though with Vivek, nothing is impossible) that McNair’s job would actually be in jeopardy if he fails to make a significant trade. But this may be a make or break for some Kings fans. After so many years of being told to remain patient, another lost season could be too much, especially if it’s accompanied by a lot of talk about deals that almost happened.
Personally, I’m not at that point yet. I’ll be disappointed if this is the Kings team I have to watch for the remainder of the year, but it wouldn’t be the worst Kings team I’ve watched. Heck, I don’t think it cracks the bottom five. But I’m also not worried because there’s been so much talk about the Kings being in trade discussions that I truly think we might get some fireworks by Thursday’s deadline.
In the meantime, I guess we continue to wait. We practice the most dreaded word in Sacramento: patience.
Kings fans will wait indefinitely, that’s what we do and why the ownership has been allowed to behave the way they have
Ain’t that the truth.
I think that this is largely true. That said, they have done a pretty good job of taking the goodwill that they earned in 2013 and burning it beyond recognition.
So glad we stayed 2013, so glad for G1C 2016. But the dismissive little chap is an NBA joke. How do we get out of Basketball Hell?
You can’t. Being a Kings fan means being part of Basketball Hell.
?w=300&h=168
Unfortunately…Mike has hit the nail on the head. It hurts that it’s the only show in town and the Sac community is beholden to a professional sports monopoly.
I mean, what’s another 30 years until success, right?
Hey Greg, thanks for taking my call.
I was wondering if you could dedicate a song for me? This one goes out to someone I lost touch with long ago…like almost 15 years ago. I know, right?
Her name is “KINGS IN THE PLAYOFFS”.
Thank you, yes. The song I’d like to dedicate is by Richard Marx. You know the one…
Oceans apart day after day
And I slowly go insane
I hear your voice on the line
But it doesn’t stop the pain
If I see you next to never
How can we say forever
Wherever you go
Whatever you do
I will be right here waiting for you
Whatever it takes
Or how my heart breaks
I will be right here waiting for you
I took for granted, all the times
That I thought would last somehow
I hear the laughter, I taste the tears
But I can’t get near you now
Oh, can’t you see it baby
You’ve got me going crazy
Wherever you go
Whatever you do
I will be right here waiting for you
Whatever it takes
Or how my heart breaks
I will be right here waiting for you
I wonder how we can survive
This romance
But in the end if I’m with you
I’ll take the chance
Oh, can’t you see it baby
You’ve got me going crazy
Wherever you go
Whatever you do
I will be right here waiting for you
Whatever it takes
Or how my heart breaks
I will fucking be right here waiting for you
Waiting for you
Automatic downvote for parody song lyrics. I don’t have many standards, but this one is in stone.
You’re a tough cookie with tough standards, and I respect that, Andy.
Thank you. As you may have guessed, a good number of them are somewhat low.
Why else would I be a Kings fan?
How sad. Parody song lyrics were how I got the front page gig on StR back in the day!
EXHIBIT G in da house!
I’m sorry. If you aren’t Weird Al, you need to put down that pen and walk away.
https://twitter.com/dril/status/247222360309121024?s=20
That guy has a solid batting average.
And you knew nothing then.
I thought the same thing until I realized they’re not parody lyrics, but instead the actual song lyrics. So I’ll upvote him to counteract your downvote
lmao at a 15-year “gap year”
Unfortunately I will wait for forever.
That said, it is totally a make it or break it trade deadline. If Belly, and Joseph get traded that would be enough to satisfy me for now and trust that Monte has a plan that will see some big shifts this off season. Maybe waiting to move guys like Buddy and Bagley would be better 6 months from now? If that’s the case then Monty should wait and I am ok wit that.
So I think I re answered the question for myself. Some trades need to happen now. Others later. REALLY BIG CHANGES need to happen before next season or Kings fans will be even more depressed and even more depleted. It’s not a good look if your’e trying to make money. Just sayin Vivek/Monte
I’m not sure McNair should get a pass on the short tenure – no doubt he has the lay of the land, and understands the value of the players on his roster and the challenges of the team’s assets and cap situation.
Where we may have a problem is in his relationships around the league. But that’s the drawback of hiring a guy with no experience in the head chair.
As Jerry said on the latest podcast, (paraphrasing):
“If you have a “5-year plan”, that means you don’t have a plan. …except a plan to try to keep your job.”
I think any GM should get a 3 year window unless the moves are absolutely horrendous and obvious.
I had the urge to throw GM Vlade out the window for 3 straight years.
Supposing that McNair has shitty relationships around the league, I’ll take that any day of the week over a GM that wants to be everybody’s friend so that no one speaks ill of him.
I wouldn’t think he has shitty relationships, I just don’t know how connected he is. Maybe he’s thoroughly connected, based on his prior FO work. Hard to know, since he’s really mostly a mystery.
I can’t conceive any possible way that you get so far up in an organization if you haven’t had conversations with a lot of different people.
I mean, unless your were a key part of the best third-place team in NBA history.
What I’d read of McNair’s tenure in Houston is that he was chiefly an analytics guy and focused as the liaison between the FO and the coaching staff.
But he could have done much more there.
I suppose we can assume one way or another, I’m just saying I don’t know.
Being Morey’s no 3 guy for all but one season may not translate much to actual meaningful relations with top guys ! Morey was rumored to be a control freak !
I can’t imagine relationships are a limiting issue. McNair, Wilcox and Catanella have all been in the league long enough to establish relationships with various counterparts.
“Whiteside has been predictably disappointing”
The hate for him is so silly. Dude is averaging 8/6/1.5 blk on just under 15 min a game for vet min…sounds like a great get.
Of the guys getting more than 10 min a game he has the 3rd highest DefRtg.
The Kings w/l record is significantly better when he gets decent minutes.
I don’t get it, but it’s not like it matters much…
He’s an easy punching bag, that’s all. You’d think he was on a max deal with three years left.
I don’t get it either. But I guess whatever works for us to tank rest of season
Whiteside always puts up numbers. He rarely has a positive impact on a game.
Just in the w/l column.
Hey Greg, 15 up votes to 1 down. Get better material
I suspect the W/L thing is coincidental, considering the team has been worse (based on Net Rating) when he’s been on the floor. He’s the 69th rated center in the league in RPM.
I wouldn’t say he’s been super disappointing, he’s just been Hassan Whiteside. Competent at times, lazy at others.
nice
Rather have Alex Len !
Whenever I watch him play, he’s fumbling the ball, missing layups, turning it over, and jogging. He gets his numbers though because his usage rate (second only to Fox on the Kings for players with at least 30 total minutes logged) is so high.
Sure, he gets boards and blocks–if he were to stick to that role instead of trying to score all the time, and if he hustled a bit more, perhaps it wouldn’t be a problem.
Also, the guards need to stop passing it to him near the basket unless it’s a breakaway.
Indeed, most Whiteside haters are probably Bagley lovers, meaning they qualify as Double Ass Hats.
I’m already, at best, a passive fan. Through their own actions over the last seven years, they have set the expectations so low that any sign of coherence and competence will be pleasing, while no amount of chaos, dysfunction, and general stubborn stupidity will be shocking.
Am I interested to see what happens with the deadline? Sure. But do I actually care? Not really, no, and why would I? I don’t live in Sacramento right now, and even if I did, I couldn’t see a game, and even if I wanted to, I can’t. Outside of Burton and, unfortunately, to a lesser extent, Fox, there just isn’t anything that I feel good about this team.
It’s not like I’m some fairweather, whatever fan. I went to Seattle and stood on top of the Space Needle decked in Kings gear weeks after the relocation saga started. I flew home for special games with my parents in college. This organization’s incompetence just finally beat it out of me, a hometown kid who last saw a Kings playoff game before their 13th birthday and won’t be seeing one for their 28th.
You will be missed on this forum.
Oh no, this sad sack of misers, muckrakers, and madmen will always be like home. I’ll be right here with you all Thursday wondering WTF is happening.
This site is the only reason I keep up with this sorry franchise.
Exactly…Kings basketball product may be shit, but TKH content keeps me around!
Same. If not for this site and community I probably wouldn’t have be paying much attention to the Kings a long time ago.
Same, except for only being 28.
Until the offseason, as per usual.
I need some reason for optimism. I can’t keep this up.
One of my favorites.
I think some reasonable “small” trades will be made, but there is always laws of supply-and-demand.
— Stay put – No big trade happen: Boo McNair sucks
–Sell low – Big trades happen but we get fleeced – Boo McNair sucks
Of course best case we made “big” trades and get good value, but that could take a couple years to work out. McNair has only been here 6 months, to fix the last 15 years.
I’m with the Patience camp – yes yet for another year.
https://alt.comics.peanuts.narkive.com/pvvZBy7f/did-charlie-brown-ever-get-to-kick-the-football
Man, I sure could go for some cheap psychiatric help right about now.
Well Andy, there you go. If I figure it out I’ll give you a heads up. If I can figure out what CB meant I’d suggest that you ignore my response entirely.
Nope, not for me anyway. I’ll follow the Kings regardless of any specific move – they are literally my home team. Now whether I’ll spend money at the Kings store or tickets is another thing altogether. As others have mentioned, this site certainly makes the experience much better.
I will be sorely disappointed if this is the team I have to watch the rest of the year: Too good to crack the top 5 in the draft and too bad to be anything more than a play-in team. This mid-level mediocrity is what the Vivek Ranadive tenure has been built on. I want this year’s team to SUCK! If Monte had a decent offer for Barnes or Buddy a month ago, he should have pounced. Instead, we’re winning meaningless games against the Rockets, Cavs, Wizards, etc. as those same teams fly right past us on the draft board and increase their chances of grabbing a star. Picking between 7-13 for the foreseeable future is Basketball Hell.
Ironically, Utah built dynasty like that ! Malone at 14 and Stockton at 13 ! Now, seemingly have done it again with Gobert at 27 and Mitchell at 13 !
Also the Warriors with Steph (7), Klay (10), Dray (35)
Also the Nuggets with Murray (7), MPJ (14), Jokic (41)
Also the Bucks with Giannis (15), Middleton (39)
Also the Heat and Clippers are both led by two all stars picked outside the top 7.
Only Kings fans think picking 7-13 is a death sentence, because somehow in consecutive years we picked in that range: Jimmer, Thomas Robinson, McLemore, Stauskas, WCS, Papagiannis
When we could’ve had: Kemba, Klay, Kawhi, Vucevic, Dame, CJ, Giannis, Lavine, Booker, Sabonis, etc.
I hope we get a top 5 pick, but picking outside of that range is no excuse for wasting a draft pick, as we’ve seen with Haliburton.
For what it’s worth, Detroit drafted Middleton.
This is true. I counted it because he only played his rookie year in Detroit, putting in just 475 minutes and was demoted to the G-League. So Milwaukee is the team that developed him from 2nd rounder to all star in my eyes.
Fair enough.
Luka at 2 would have been preferable.
As far as the dubs go I believe that the most incredible pick in that draft was Klay Thompson whose selection at 11 was genius based on the Logo’s, Jerry West’s, input. Tom Izzo was telling anybody who would listen not to overlook Draymond Green in the draft. KAHN fucked up the draft and Steph probably shouldn’t have gone lower than 5th.
If you look at the Kings recent draft history (say from the point they drafted Cuz to the most recent draft where Hali incredibly fell to us at 12 we have blown almost every pick. The draft is such an incredible value and crapshoot it’s hard to be critical of blown picks because all teams make poor selections at one time or another.
Every time I’ve ever watched, either Jerry’s or Doug’s keys to the game they always mention valuing the ball/limiting turnovers. If the draft keys to success are don’t waste draft picks then the Kings despite bad draft bad luck have not valued their draft picks I’ll just just throw up Papagianis and Stauskis or Jimmer where there was value to be had, sufficient enough to alter the teams future where they just fucked up the pick.
I’ll accept Monte’s trades tomorrow pretty much without criticism because I won’t be able to tell if this it long time move or if we have to wait for the other shoe to drop.
What is not acceptable to me and I’ll bet to the most of you who believe that if they pick a player who just doesn’t have NBA quality game and never will is more than a wasted pick. It’s just the franchise’s future, that’s all and as fans it’s the reason we watch the games and care far more than we should. I want a sign from the trade deadline and the draft that they are finally taking all this seriously.
If they rented a team of monkeys who were trained to throw darts for draft night night and the trade deadline they could not based on recent history, have done worse. I say quit fucking with the monkeys vivek. Just pick the player (s) trade or a draft pick…………………that your monkeys have selected and quit thinking about it. It’s a proven fact that thinking about the Sacramento Kings doesn’t work. Let the consultants you hired go about their work.
We just got our best player at 12, and picked Bagley at 2.
The draft is irrelevant for us, because we suck at it.
Not make or break for this fan.
I’ll be disappointed, since there have been plenty of Kings trade rumors.
But I’ll see how the team looks at the start of next season before I begin the revolt ð
I’ll say this, IF Monty doesnt make any real trades involving Buddy, Barnes, Holmes or BAGLEY by Thursday then the Kings just wasted more money. Like what was the point of firing a GM with 3 years left on his contract and then signing a new one if the roster was going to stay the same until the 2021/2022 season?
Literally anyone could have done the Job Monte has done so far. That’s not being negative towards Monte, just stating the facts. The dude hasn’t done much at all accept be accused of tampering and picking the guy that fell the furthest during the draft.
I’d like our new GM to actually do something to help make the team better for the future. Am I crazy?
It still surprises me that there are adults who don’t understand that when you have unsatisfactory choices, that the smart move may be to simply do nothing.
But you’re assuming all he has had are unsatisfactory choices. In essence, you’re working from the POV that McNair is competent at this job. You may well be right, but I don’t think we can say either way. There were probably many of us that felt that way about Pete D at the six month mark.
This isn’t the old NBA – teams improve much more quickly now. I don’t think you can be a passive GM and expect to turn around a franchise like Sacramento’s.
There’s a huge difference between passivity and deciding not to make a stupid choice.
There is a difference. And we don’t know which defines McNair (at least, I don’t).
That’s the dirty little secret here – that he hasn’t really done anything (yet) that Vlade probably wouldn’t have done (or any other warm body).
I still have optimism that McNair will be better at this job, but there’s no proof of it either way to this point.
Blind guess: Re-signs Bogi to a deal larger than what was ultimately offered to him by the Hawks, drafts Poku or Achiuwa.
Come on, Rob. You’re just basing that on all of the entirely stupid moves that he made.
The league is littered with GMs who have made terrible decisions. Maybe there aren’t too many as bad as Vlade, but they are plentiful.
I think the difference between you and me is you’re assuming McNair is good at this job. I hope he is, and I’m sure he’s more qualified than Vlade, but there’s a huge gulf between that level of ability and competence.
McNair could be anywhere in that gulf.
Yeah I think anybody assuming he would have drafted Haliburton must have missed literally everything else Vlade did while he was here. I do not think that was a foregone conclusion at all.
I’m in wait and see mode and generally think Monte has a clue, but who knows. I will counter in that not everyone would have made an obvious draft choice in Hali, see 5 GMs or so who passed and our own intrepid previous GM when an obvious choice presented itself…so yay Monte? Not making egregious mistakes thus far is a skill this organization has been lacking.
We wait and see…
Maybe, but about two-thirds of the people here who understand college basketball nearly stroked out when Haliburton fell to Sacramento.
Yeah, that was a no-brainer. It would have been far more telling of Monte’s talents had he passed on Hali.
You’d think based on VD’s tenure, people around here would see the benefit in making the obvious choice. Apparently, it’s harder than we thought.
Vlade drafted Fox and Bagley. Vlade signed Barnes and Holmes. These are all guys that you ostensibly seem to like.
Liking or not liking them as players doesn’t mean I’d have made the same moves.
Fox !
Yeah…and the pick was made. A laundry list of GM’s in front of him wish they could have their pick back from last year. Monte is not one of them. He does get credit for that even if we feel it was an obvious choice. If Vlade had made the obvious choice he would still be GM of the playoff bound Kings.
I’m not saying he has done anything great, just that he also hasn’t done anything spectacularly stupid…which around here deserves a bit of praise, low bar as it is.
Problem is Arco, we had previous GMs who wouldn’t pick the guy that fell furthest during the draft….so that’s a step in the right direction even if he didn’t make Hali fall. He gets credit for picking him.
You are 100 percent correct, Vlonty McDvac has actually been really bad so far.
Remember, in addition to what you already mentioned, he also picked up Pervis’ option, which will likely end up with us losing Holmes.
One major difference for sure is vlade would have matched that disaster of a bogi contact
Not gonna lie, if the Kings sit on their hands this deadline I’m gonna be quite upset. The thought of possibly losing Holmes for nothing in the offseason, getting another middling lottery pick and going into the offseason with little room for improvement is just so mind numbing. Buddy and Barens aren’t going to get any better or more tradeable by summer so the Kins would likely be rolling out the same core rotation with some vet minimum deals. How is that any different than this year or the previous season?
Tim had this really depressing tweet this morning:
https://twitter.com/TimMaxwell22/status/1374373309530271749
This actually really upset me. It made me realize that the Kings ownership are essentially lining their pockets while the team remains shitty. I mean, seriously…$11M in cash considerations since Vivek took over.
We know they have never sent cash out so answer me this…how much salary have the Kings taken on in trades since Vivek took over? I’m took miffed to find the answer by I’m guessing it nowhere approaches $11M in cash withdrawals.
The Kings could very well have money issues, but the cash considerations stuff doesn’t really mean much IMO. Bogi straight up told us that Vivek said he wanted to bring him back. The first year of Bogi’s contract dwarfs the total amount of cash the Kings have received in the various trades mentioned above.
With the Clippers trade specifically, I’m not 100% sure Tim’s number is even accurate. Why would the Clippers give the Kings $2.8 million instead of just waiving him? He’s an unrestricted free agent this season, and that’s more than his entire salary for all 72 games this season.
Doesn’t the fact they didn’t match on Bogi undercut your argument? I mean, Vivek could have just been b.s.’ing Bogi.
from what I understand there were two factions: Dumars/Vivek wanted to match the offer, and McNair wanted to trade him (or at least not match). That’s based on Bogi’s interview and Amick’s contemporaneous tweets during the 3 day period in which the Kings had to decide whether or not to match.
It saved the Clippers a tax hit. Kings basically pocket $2M for paying the remaining salary of MK.
The trade article was updated with this info from Marks
.
https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1374338393748996097?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1374338393748996097%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fkingsherald.com%2Farticles%2Fsacramento-kings-trade-rumors-mfiondu-kabengele%2F
oh okay, that makes sense. I didn’t take into account the actual luxury tax amount.
Also, as Marks points out, that’s just a savvy move. You want your GM making savvy moves. That’s different than drafting TRob because you’re unsure if JT will re-sign, then trading TRob a few months later to save a few million.
I agree that it is a savvy move, but it’s not a competitive savvy move. I look at the larger picture of the Kings once again taking on money to solve other people’s problems, while they don’t bother to fix their own.
I haven’t seen anyone comment on McNair’s use of an expiring trade exception at a cost of next to nothing for the organization. No great shakes, but I’d give him credit for at least that much.
I think Matina did well 😉
if the Kings needed to save money, then they could trade Barnes into the Celtics TPE, and get back little in return. They could do something’s similar with Bagley as well. Point being, I think it’s one thing to speculate if the Kings are willing to go over the cap to push for the playoffs. It’s different to think cost savings is their prime motivation.
LAC could not have made a move in buy out market with MK on roster. Kings had space and made LAC pay. But minor deal
I mean, it’s a savvy move if you’re cash poor. Not sure how savvy it is from a basketball perspective.
I’m just not of the belief that money is irrelevant from a basketball ops perspective. They still have $2 million more now than they did 2 days ago.
Hawks trying to move Bogi for peanuts
LAC wanted a roster slot and had to get rid of a contracted player- Kings one of 2 teams with both the cap space, under cap and a roster spot. Kings moved on opportunity. Gained money and did not give up a thing.
Kings can release him without penalty or use him to audition without penalty
Wasn’t the cash coming back from the Clips for salary? Why would you not ask for that?
It’s the Maloofs without the relocation sagas.
The Gap year talk is just infuriating. If nothing happens, with Walton at the helm until the end of the season and playing guys like CoJo over guys like Woodard while not embracing the tank, this is basically punting the season and setting us back another year.
Not something to give me hope that Monte is capable of much more than letting a top 5 pick drop in his lap.
The problem is, it’s not even punting, it’s just treading water. Smart GMs either sink or swim, but just remaining in middling purgatory is so maddening. There has been enough time for Monte to get a full evaluation of every player. If they are not part of the future, get rid of them and re-make the team in your desired image. Going into next year with the same core is such a gut punch to the city and fans.
Get rid of them how? Just buy out all of the players who won’t be part of the core going forward? You can’t just trade them to teams if the other team doesn’t like the terms.
I understand that McNair is the GM of an NBA team, and that’s a powerful position. It doesn’t give him psychic powers that can compel other teams to take your players, and it also (one assumes) doesn’t let him buy out a dozen players on Ranadive’s dime.
Again, how does McNair get rid of these players?
If it comes down to taking nickels on the dollar, you do it. It’s called a rebuild. If the Kings think they should get equal value on the contracts of players like Barnes, Buddy or Joseph, then they have their head’s up their asses. The man who handed out those contracts is not even in the league anymore. Those contracts are a reflection of that. Bite the bullet and lose the trade if it means you can clear the slate. Teams ARE interested in Kings players so meet their terms if you must.
And then do what exactly?
Seriously, I’m asking, what’s the next move after dumping assets at fire sale prices? Assuming that “equal value” means young players with promise, or picks that aren’t down at the bottom of the first round or second rounders, then what?
What would you do after emptying the cupboard, in return for very little that helps you moving forward?
That’s what Monte is being paid the big bucks for. I’d hope he has a plan. If the plan is to do nothing because you can’t win all the trades, then you might as well have not fired Vlade. Monte was hired to fix this.
Ahh, a very neat concession of the point, thank you.
McNair hasn’t righted sinking ship in only six months. I’m going to go out on a limb that even if you were making McNair’s salary, you’d not have accomplished a hell of a lot yet either.
Plus we’d probably still have gimpy Bobo killing the salary cap, which totally would help in re-signing Holmes.
McNair hasn’t shown me any indication that he’s incompetent. Not making any deals this week won’t change that.
Oops, you are edging closer and closer to the “how are you more qualified than the guy you are questioning?” line.
Not really. I asked for anything remotely specific that they might do should their plan be executed. Then, they deferred to the “it’s not my job to make those decisions!”
I’m willing to entertain all kinds of scenarios, but I will ask questions until I understand how they will or won’t work. I still see no benefit to dumping assets for nothing of real value in return, just so you can say that you did something.
I completely agree with your last sentence. But I suspect we disagree on “real value” – I do see longer term cap flexibility as a value, so moving Buddy and HB primarily for cap relief would be ok with me. McNair said he’s attempting to maintain flexibility, and that would certainly do it.
Holmes is a whole other issue, since there’s no real cap benefit to moving him. I’d love to see what we could get for him now asset-wise, then try to get him back in FA.
Sure, cap relief is an actual thing, and the limited evidence (not matching Bobo) indicates that McNair understands it as well. I don’t believe that anyone suggested that it needed to be a component in what would otherwise be something of a giveaway, for the sake of making moves.
If you can free up some cap space, which I assume comes with a pick or player or something for our trouble, then that’s compelling enough for me. These are the kinds of details that I need to understand things being proposed.
I like you, Otis. You keep me on my hooves.
It’s not a giveaway if the player has no value.
I guess I’m the opposite. If he makes no deals this week I question not just his decision making but the role he has in making decisions with folks like Vivek and Dumars looking over his shoulder.
But as you said, you’re not getting the big bucks to make such decisions, so your thoughts are entirely as worthless as my own. The only difference is that when you’re asked, well, what happens next? you don’t come through.
Explain to me how it works, and I’ll listen.
Exactly! No deal much better than a bad deal.
How do you improve by doing nothing, presumably because you overvalue your players?
Maybe he is trigger shy? Maybe he values our own players too high and turned down decent deals? Maybe his negotiation skills are shit?
These arguments can be made on both sides. Ultimately, he will be judged on what he achieves, not on what circumstances made his job harder or easier.
So far, he has picked one good player in the draft, traded away a good second rounder, brought in underwhelming FA’s, got nothing for Bogi and is riding on a gap year wave. Basically a GM’s version of watching the tape.
I think his willingness to not be ankled to Bobo for four years is a decent indicator that he doesn’t overvalue the talent on his own roster.
Same here. If he saw the value of not committing to Bogi, then wouldn’t that same vision be applied to not being committed to the contracts or overvaluing the talent of Buddy and Barnes?
McNair didn’t sign either of them. They were under contract when he got here. Making a comparison to letting a player on the downslope get overpaid elsewhere is ridiculous. Do you not see that the two things are entirely dissimilar?
It’s apples and road apples.
It’s too small a sample size to be a decent indicator of anything. Hell, he could have done it just to show Dumars that he calls the shots. Or to act upon his cap flexibility trope.
Or, you know, maybe all of these speculative scenarios are horseshit, and he made the smart move for his team going forward.
Which is, as I understand it, his job.
That was Vlade’s job too. And Pete D’s.
Whose moves showed them to be shit at the job.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I must admit that I find them more compelling when there’s some evidence backing them up.
And, in hindsight, deserved to be questioned from the beginning.
Agreed! I don’t think we have much evidence to gauge McNair’s ability to do this job yet.
Your opinion of McNair is as strong as anyone’s here, and you have just as much/little evidence to work with.
If we have nothing more to go on than grabbing Haliburton, and not chaining him to the bench for the opportunity to overpay an inferior and aging player, I’m going to say that he comes down on the happy side of the ledger after six months.
I wish I could get away with mowing the fairways once a year. ‘But I did a fucking awesome job the one time I mowed them! Wait til you see what I do in five months when I mow them again!”
If there is little or no market for these players, then you move them for what the market dictates. Doing nothing shouldn’t be an option.
I’m curious why this shouldn’t be an option.
Let’s say Bjelicia is the only one to move at the deadline – Do you think we start seeing the younger guys get more playing time? I am not confident a big trade is going to happen, I just hope we stop playing our vets deep into meaningless games. Basically what I’m wondering is if the lineup makes any significant changes in rotations after the deadline.
If that happens (Belly is the only one moved), maybe it means Vivek wants Walton to put his veteran players out there to make a run at the play-in..?
True – I guess the next few weeks/days will tell us a lot
I’d rather have what you said would happen, though! 🙂
I don’t care much about the play-in. I’d rather have a higher draft slot for the long-term goals.
I’m still watching games but they’ve become background noise at this point. I’m sure if there were in-person games I’d be shut down.
In terms of Monte, I’m afraid my window of satisfaction has grown quite narrow. I want future assets via losing, but reality has set in, and I’m preparing for the 12th pick.
Today on Damien and Kenny’s show, who I love, Kenny was talking about how much they need wins, and also about how much they need to find a 20+ppg scorer with their top five pick, and it made me realize how embedded this narrative is, and how absolutely fucked we really are. May as well trade for Andrew Bynum while we’re at it.
That’s a bit of an inside joke, but I can’t help but feel the similarities to our situation and the Sixers pre Hinkie.
I think there is is time to get a good pick. If the Kings can move Barnes and/or Holmes for future assets, that will significantly affect the win/loss column. If they are moved I could see the Kings entering the lottery around the 5-6 range and anything is possible with the new odds. I don’t think anyone is catching Minny, Houston, Detroit or Orlando.
If a trade falls at the deadline and there are no fans to hear it, does it make a sound?
If they can’t get value in a trade they shouldn’t do it. There really is no reason for the Kings to panic at the deadline. If Belly, Whiteside, or Joseph aren’t moved, no big deal. If Holmes isn’t moved, who cares? We’d get first chance at resigning him if that’s in the plans or cut bait after the season, but absolutely don’t take a deal that hurts the future just to make one. All the aforementioned players are gone in the off season ($2.4M buyout of Joseph). If Barnes is still here, fine, it’s not like his trade value disappears in the offseason. The trade deadline is a seller’s market and if no deal is proposed that helps with the 22-23 season, then pound sand. Bagley might not be movable at this point but will be off the books after next season anyway.
I hope a deal comes through that brings long term value but I don’t think the Kings should show any sense of urgency to make a move at the deadline if it doesn’t help the long term vision.
Plus we already go t Mfiondu Kabengele. What more do you want?
One posterization is all I ask: Cheese Mfiondu!
Perfectly stated. There’s no reason to make moves just to make moves.
I think there is when you are on a 15 year treadmill of mediocrity. Small markets can’t be passive. Swing for the fences.
But your idea of swinging for the fences is to move assets to shake things up, and rebuild again with almost nothing in the cupboard other than your own draft picks.
You swing for the fences to hit a home run. Your plan is a pop-up behind third base.
Not at all.
1. You don’t get zero assets for a player like Barnes or Holmes. There will be some value in the return, be it picks or prospects. I’ve never advocating clearing those guys for nothing.
2. You clear the cap and THEN you swig for the fences, be it throwing money at some like Markennan or Collins or eat a bad deal for future assets like OKC has done.
3.Monte cleared the roster to his liking and can get busy captaining the ship rather than continuing to steer the rudderless one Vlade left him.
You have said over and over again that these guys need to go regardless of return, and that
Does that not mean what I think it means?
You aren’t going to rebuild by stacking nickels. Your scheme falls apart before it can even begin, because apparently, McNair needs to just do something.
I now follow the Kings the way some people follow terrible long-running soap operas: Because the poor production values and terrible skill level of everyone involved is amusing and comforting to witness.
I was really hoping the trade of Marvin Bagley to the Pistons for Sunrise Bey would’ve gone through.
The Kings can’t just make a deal because they feel compelled to do something. A couple of good deals and I think this team can be a playoff team so they have to be careful. If they did nothing but dumped Bjelica for a second rounder, they go into the offseason with a nice first round pick, a couple of trade chips in Barnes and Bagley and possibly some cap space. No deal is better than a bad deal, so we better get a decent haul for Barnes and something decent for Bagley or just be patient. Sometimes in the offseason when one of the stars is involved in a deal, a nice young player becomes available so the team can make room for the incoming big chip.
I mean, that’s everything, right there.
Unfortunately, deals that are no-doubt “good” deals are few and far between. There’s always the chance that it turns out bad. But when the alternative is standing pat with 13th place team, personally, I’d rather see them take some chances.
I don’t think anybody is suggesting to stand pat. What you’re presenting is basically a false choice. I don’t buy into this idea to move Barnes just for cap space if you can’t get a better deal. Should an opportunity come along that requires more cap space, you can always move Barnes just for cap space and that may even be more true in the off-season or prior to next years trade deadline.
The last thing we need is another stupid Vlade trade that makes things even more difficult. Current management has done three good things so far, drafting Halliburton, not making a stupid free agent overpayment signings like Hill, Dedmon, Zzzbo, Joseph, and no dumb trades. They do however have to do something either before this trade deadline or in the off-season that moves the needle. There’s several guys that may come available that won’t require a Kings ransom with a decent upside like Zach Collins, Isaiah Roby, Diallo, Mann, etc.
I’m sorry, what’s the false choice I’m presenting? You seem to be ascribing a lot of other people’s comments to me. What do you consider a good return for Barnes?
I agree with the thought that a couple of good deals could turn this ship around. Swinging good deals to bring in 8-10 new players, and inking a good deal for quality person to be the head coach, and we can definitely start righting this ship.
I agree with the thought that a couple of good deals could turn this ship around. Swinging good deals to bring in 7 or 8 new players, and inking a good deal for quality person to be the head coach, and we can definitely start righting this ship.
Walton playing a 6 man rotation worries me, and hearing Vivek doesn’t want to trade players like Barnes and tank. It all smells like past years of not getting a high pick or making the playoffs. Save us Monte.
OK, first things first … based on what he’s done so far – jack shit – Vlonty McDivac sucks.
No, he doesn’t get credit for Haliburton.
That was a no-brainer. Much like the one we had in June 2018.
But, we have a trade deadline coming up.
He can significantly improve this team by shedding Buddy’s salary and the lingering elevator fart that has been Bagley’s career so far.
Get something for those two guys and you have something to build on.
Don’t trade Holmes. Don’t trade Barnes. They are good team contributors and both are entering their prime.
Continue to build the team around Fox and Haliburton.
Tell Luke he’s going to need to find minutes for the Woodards, Ramseys, Guys and other young players on the team, both to aid in evaluating whether these are true NBA players and to indirectly mitigate the fine line between learning to win and tanking for the draft.
Then, at season’s end, find a new coach to teach the young core to truly compete.
Once the draft rolls around, find a guy more like Luka than Bagley.
I feel like you’re flirting with me.
You’re a very smart credit card. I bet you have a wonderful rewards plan. ¤ï¸
This is probably a day late and a dollar short but fuck it I’ll put it in here anyway.
Personally, I think what’s make or break is if Monte McNair ‘has’ to make a move. Make a move, don’t make a move, but do what you think is in the best interest of the franchise. The franchise doesn’t have to make a move, but many want to see one is what I’m seeing at this point. I think this deadline is more of a Rorschach test to see how you view team building than it is a pass fail in regards to Monte McNair and his running of basketball operations.
If there is a time where McNair does have to do something, it’ll be this summer if anything as much will be happening at that point. But I know this: I’m not automatically trading Barnes or Holmes because their value is “highest” now. Their value is high to the Kings, too, even if some don’t see it that way. There is, after all, more than one way to define value.
That said, I have a feeling more people than not will be disappointed with this deadline because I have a feeling neither Holmes or Barnes gets moved.
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