On Thursday, the Kings entered the NBA Draft armed with the 4th, 37th, and 49th picks. They exited with Keegan Murray, two future second rounders, the rights to Sasha Vezenkov, and a couple million in cash. Some members of the crew gathered together to share their thoughts, so let’s dive right in!
Tim: Let’s start with the good: Keegan Murray. As probably the first member of the local media to set my sights on Murray back in January, I can’t help but be excited about what he’ll be able to do for the Kings. I think he has a higher ceiling than most believe, as he can defend, score at three levels, and he also has some solid rim protection instincts as a weak-side defender. He’s going to be a key cog for any NBA team he’s on for the entirety of his career. I understand any and all frustration directed at the Kings for their draft night decisions, but I can’t comprehend that frustration devolving into vitriol for Murray as a prospect. If he wasn’t going 4th, he was going 5th. He’s good.
Yet, my excitement for Murray is muted by Sacramento’s nonsensical execution of their goal to make the playoffs next year. They needed to kill it on draft night, and they did anything but. Almost every other team in the Western Conference “We’re hoping to be in the playoff/play-in conversation next year” race made several moves to leap ahead of their competitors, while Sacramento stayed stagnant outside of their lottery selection. I keep hearing about Monte McNair’s aggressiveness in the trade market, and yet, outside of the Sabonis trade, nothing significant has been consummated in 2.5 years of management. We saw other teams move up, move back, add picks, and swap salaries, but the Kings were noticeably absent from all of those transactions, as their only moves were to punt their second round picks down the line.
And speaking of those moves, trading the 37th pick for future second rounders that Monte McNair will almost certainly never see felt backwards in and of itself, but then selling the later pick for cash and a soon-to-be 27-year old EuroLeague prospect no one had heard of until yesterday made me feel even worse. Add in the failed John Collins negotiations (for the second time) and passing on the consensus fourth-best player in the draft, and I can’t help but think the Kings missed a huge opportunity last night. Teams like the Kings, with their history of losing and small market presence, rarely make significant talent additions in free agency, making the draft all that more important to leverage. Monte McNair’s goal is to make the playoffs in 2022 and they don’t feel much closer than they did three months ago. I’m underwhelmed.
Akis: Draft night was fine for the Sacramento Kings, if not a little boring. For weeks the debate had been largely over who the Kings would select at 4, Keegan Murray or Jaden Ivey. Many pundits, myself included, believed that Ivey was the higher upside pick, but the Kings clearly felt otherwise. I’m a little skeptical that the Kings would have taken the same tack if their best player wasn’t De’Aaron Fox (who Ivey seems to have a lot of similarities with), but this wasn’t a Luka/Bagley situation: Murray was clearly one of the best prospects available in this draft, and one of the most productive players in college basketball last season. He should be able to step in from Day 1, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he does turn out to be the right pick in the long haul. If you told most Kings fans before the Draft Lottery jump that moved the Kings from 7 to 4 that they would be getting Keegan Murray, the excitement would probably be a lot more palpable.
The Kings are getting dinged by many for drafting for fit, and it’s easy to see why: Jabari Smith Jr. might be the only other player in this entire draft who fits as well with what the Kings need as Murray. He’s a switchable 3/4 who can play both ends of the court. He can shoot, he can rebound, he plays defense and he hardly ever turns the ball over. But what teams don’t need someone like this? It’s hard to find a situation in the NBA where a team doesn’t need a guy like Murray.
Some had hoped that if the Kings truly liked Murray better than Ivey that they would be able to extract more assets from a team below them in order to draft him and get a little extra, and I’m sure they were working the phone to do so. I’m willing to bet that Adrian Wojnarowski’s reports that the Kings viewed this as a 4 person draft with a drop-off after Ivey were simply the Kings trying to throw some smoke at Detroit to get them to cough up something to move up a spot. Either Detroit wasn’t buying it, or they were just as happy to take Murray if Ivey wasn’t there and weren’t willing to offer anything of significance to move up one spot. The Kings clearly liked Murray enough over other options that they weren’t willing to trade too far down and risk not getting him.
I’m a bit more disappointed in how the Kings handled the second round. Trading the 49th pick for cash and the rights to a solid European player is fine, especially if Veznekov can come over and be a rotation player sooner rather than later. But trading the 37th pick for future seconds when there were players still available that were seemingly first round talents like Jaden Hardy (who Dallas picked) or E.J. Liddell (who went 41 to the New Orleans) was disappointing. It’s not the end of the world or anything, but I’m tired of the Kings seemingly ignoring opportunities in the 2nd round when we keep seeing other teams find diamonds in the rough every year, right in this range. Just last year, you had the Pelicans find Herb Jones at 35 and the Bulls get Ayo Dosunmu at 38, two All-Rookie selections for playoff teams. The Kings themselves have seen second round guys they sold for cash or future picks go on to be solid players in recent years: Xavier Tillman in 2020 and Gary Trent Jr. in 2018. A team like the Kings should be throwing as many darts at the board as they can. I like the Keon Ellis signing as a two-way contract, but they could have done that AND gotten another flier this year.
It was also a bit disappointing to not see a big trade of some sort after rumors seemed to indicate that the Kings were “leading the pack” in the pursuit of John Collins and were mentioned in other rumors as well. Nothing came of that, and the Kings watched other teams in their conference get better. The Trail Blazers were able to snag Jerami Grant for a likely late first rounder in 2025 from the Pistons. The Rockets saw the guy that many considered the best prospect in the draft fall to them at 3, and then added a high upside player in Tari Eason and a flier on TyTy Washington.
I’m excited to see Murray in Sacramento, and I think he’s going to be a good player for a long time. But drafting one player, whether it was Keegan Murray or Jaden Ivey, wasn’t going to fix the Kings. There’s still a lot of work to be done, and given that free agency has never been Sacramento’s strong suit, I’m a little worried to see how the Kings make the improvements they need to get over the hump. There’s more pressure than ever on De’Aaron Fox to become the perennial All-Star franchise guy that this team needs, and for Monte McNair to surround him with the pieces to not only end this playoff drought, but to go beyond.
Tony: I like Keegan Murray a lot, but I think the Kings made the wrong pick yesterday. Think is the most important word there. Monte McNair and the Kings could be right. Murray could be better than Jaden Ivey. Murray could be just what the Kings need next to Domantas Sabonis and De’Aaron Fox to finally make a playoff run. But I think it’s both fair and appropriate to seriously question any Kings basketball decision, especially one that goes against NBA consensus like this. The history speaks for itself.
The Kings weren’t the only team that was high on Keegan Murray. The Spurs, an organization that has earned plenty of trust, are a good example. This isn’t Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic. And it’s not saying much, but I have more faith in this front office than I did in Vlade Divac and his buddies. Monte McNair did a lot of work on this. We know Murray is an analytics darling, and McNair’s draft history is solid. If he’s right and Murray proves to be the better player, I’ll be the first to give him his praise. But until then, I guess we just have to sit here and hope that the Kings finally got one of these we’re smarter than everyone else decisions right.
Beyond the Murray selection, the Kings had a pretty uneventful draft. Yes, McNair has plenty of time to make trades and improve the roster before the season opener, but teams can and do get significantly better on draft night, and that wasn’t what the Kings explicitly did this year. They drafted the guy they wanted, landed Sasha Vezenkov, a lower level European prospect that may or may not ever play in the NBA, and made some extra cash by selling 2nd round picks. It was a boring and uninspired night from a franchise that still has a lot of work to do before their playoff hopes become a reality.
Greg: I put my thoughts on record before the draft, just to make sure it wouldn’t seem like I was simply making excuses after the fact:
Just to put it on record: I’d prefer the Kings take Ivey (assuming top 3 goes as expected), but I won’t be mad if they take Murray. I think Ivey has higher upside but I think Murray will also be very good.
— Greg (@gwiss) June 23, 2022
I would have picked Ivey, but I don’t think the difference between Ivey and Murray is big enough to be overly upset about today. Ivey seems to have the higher upside, and god knows I want the Kings to capitalize on lottery luck and land a true superstar. But Murray is also really, really good, and there’s a path for him to become a superstar too. We can quibble about who we think is more or less likely to reach that highest level, but at the end of the day we’re all guessing, and there’s perfectly sound arguments to be made in favor of either player. But the Kings got a big man who is a good defender and can space the floor, which is exactly what every team in the NBA is looking for in a big man.
I wish the Kings had done more yesterday. I do. I feel like we’ve spent the last few years waiting for a big swing and instead we keep getting incremental improvement. But I also didn’t think it would make sense to trade for John Collins once the Kings had drafted Murray. I still hope the Kings can make another trade, whether that involves Harrison Barnes, Richaun Holmes, or others, to bolster the overall talent level of this roster. I know the Kings aren’t the masters of free agency, but there’s still plenty of time for trades to happen. I’m disappointed right now, but I also know the opening day roster could still look very different.
I keep coming back to the idea of “time will tell”. We can question a draft pick, but time will tell if this was the right decision or not. This isn’t to suggest Monte McNair should get endless time because we always need to wait to evaluate the next moves. He can be judged based on the totality of his tenure. But I find it strange to rush to judgement on yesterday’s pick. History hasn’t been kind to Kings fans in the draft, but for now I’ll hold onto hope that this time will be different, even if history tells me otherwise.
In general, I feel ok about the draft. I do wish they’d drafted somebody with the 37 or used it as part of a larger deal, so that was a bit disappointing.
I could be wrong, but I have a feeling the Euro guy will come over. Curious to see what he can do.
Everything is awful
Name one team in the West who is more badly positioned than the Kings.
The only thing Monte has done is put his team in a little better position to draft the only Euro guy that matters in next years draft. The tall French dude.
Lakers.
Could be a reckoning, especially if they get Kyrie. The Lakers would further mortgage their future to get a name, with no consideration as to how his previous teams “benefited” from signing him.
The Lakers are a mess but I still think I’d rather have Lebron and AD. Plus, no matter how inept the Lakers are, they are still going to get guys like Lebron that just want to be in LA every so often no matter how bleak it gets.
Name one team in the West who is more badly positioned than the Kings.
Heck we may be the worst positioned team in the league, let alone the West.
Tripping bud, they are fine and better positioned for the playoffs then they have been in YEARS
If they add a player in trade or FA at the level of Fox/Sabonis then maybe they have something.
And I do actually think McNair knows what he’s doing.
Is it because of all the clever moves he’s made or trading second round picks? Why are u impressed?
I like his draft pics. And though I wanted them to trade Fox, I think Sabonis was a very good get if McNair was forced to go for playoffs rather than full rebuild.
I like Mike Brown as a hire. I like that he didn’t let the shit owner bring in Christie or hire Marc Jackson. Bagley for DDV is good.
He seems like an actual real GM with a system and his guys. The first real GM in Sac since Petrie.
I covered this with you in a different thread, and so am surprised you decided to drag the same, already-answered question into this one.
Am I supposed to be impressed that you’re a pretentious fool, Andy?
Why, yes, I’m impressed.
You are too kind in that description.
Is anyone supposed to be impressed that you can spell “pretentious?”
Leave me the easy ones Andy.
Ok
Not you. Your too easy!
Ok….
Have to keep it to small words you can read. Until now you, you have never responded to anything I have said even when I directly ask you a question.
We’re Kings fans, not adversaries. I have no beef. If I ignored you, I apologize. I’m not a consistent poster, or reader. I just fade in and out of the convo. I don’t mean to sound hostile.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, and comments, when they are grounded. I feel you like you let your emotion lead you to hyperbolic statements. The negativity can be a drag. We’ve been though enough as Kings fans. There’s no sense in running each other down.
I’m 50 years old, and I’ve been morbidly obsessed with the team since ’96. It’s been a long 16 years. And even the glory years were mostly heart-breaking.
I don’t know anything about you (or anyone else on this forum). I don’t think your a troll (which there are some of on this site). You give me the impression of youthful exuberance gone wild. Some of your posts are entertaining.
Please try to stay positive. If there’s no reason for positivity, there’s no reason to even care (let alone post/participate). Let’s not attack each other. Please forgive my sarcasm as I don’t mean to be confrontational.
If you have a specific question for me, you’ll probably need to ask it while I’m active on here, or I’m probably not likely to even see it. I’m willing to answer, but if it becomes too contentious, or argumentative, I’m out.
Moreover, it’s just my humble (sometimes not humble enough) opinion. There are many more knowledgeable posters on here, and better informed opinions than my own. I’ve been talked away from the ledge on here myself. That’s why I’m here, not to impress anyone with my incite. I offer what I have. Thanks for reading.
“Incite” Ha Ha, laughing at my own lack of spelling.
Read your comments.
I am all for positivity. We can all express our opinion without attacking or insulting people.
I fee like this unnecessary but hey, I’m just a dude with thoughts.
“The Sacramento Kings trade the 38th pick in the NBA draft for (insert player never coming) and the remainder of former coach (insert coach here)’s contract value”
What 2nd found pick has this team developed into an average starter? We have an owner who doesnt invest in that development at all. (see assistant Stockton GM) 2nd round picks here are to be traded for $ to pay fired coaches.
What about Collins or Kuzma? I like Kuzma better. Would love it if they could also grab Hachimura for backup power forward. He is shooting 44% from three and can play defense. Fox, DD, Kuzma, Murray and Sabonis.
I watched a lot of Wizards the last two years and Hachimura is not a good defender.
Hachimura isn’t worth anything to me. Kuzma was really impressive when I saw him live last year. He’s grown into his body and still has nice touch and physical coordination, along with being more on the timeline with Fox-Sabonis. I’d be pretty satisfied if we picked him up.
I wouldn’t want the Kings to pick up either guy. Neither player is particularly good IMO.
This.
Agree with you Richie. I don’t think either guy really helps us.
Kuzma is very good and why he will be in the league a long time and make a ton of money .
Over who? Pelicans? Only team that might be worse (but positioned better for future) is OKC
I actually only think there are 4 clear cut top teams in the west: GS, MEM, PHO, DEN. Everyone else has questionable things going on and are reachable
The Clippers , Suns, Pelicans and Mavericks for certain . Hope the kool aid tastes good now .
1) No team in the West is more badly positioned than the Kings.
2) The Kings are better positioned than they have been in years.
Both those statements can be true. And probably are, unfortunately.
I was just thinking that!
The Kings will definitely need some improved play from the roster to move up to the play-in this year. The west looks brutal, but to me, there are also a lot of teams with questionmarks.
How are the Jazz going to look with a new coach and possibly after a big trade? Is Kawhi going to be close to 100%, and if not, will PG remain healthy enough to carry the team for most of the season again? Are the Suns going to trade Ayton, and will CP be able to continue the impressive run this late in his career. The Lakers are another year older, and need LeBron and AD to stay healthy. Are the Spurs any better than last season, and what will the Blazers look like with Dame back?
You cry for now but, when/if the Kings are better this season, you don’t get to join the party, and I’m gonna be clownin’ you ceaselessly for being fair-weather, and giving up on the season in June!
Sac has SOME of the best fans in the country.
Oh and “more badly?”
How’s that Kool aid tasting?
More badly!
Did the off-season last only 1 day or did I miss something?
The dread felt amongst kings fans today is a bit ridiculous, acting this is the final product? The off-season has only begun.
The Kings got better yesterday, pure and simple. They added who they thought was the BPA. And added a solid potential 2way player in Ellis.
I know we all expected a lot of activity yesterday, but I can truthfully only point to 1 move yesterday that made a team a better playoff contender, and that was Philly trading for Melton.
It’s funny. I read multiple draft analyses last night and they all seemed to follow a familiar script: praise for Murray as a player and the things he brings to the table, then dinging the Kings with the draft grade because he wasn’t Ivey.
I was half wondering if the Spurs had pulled off a trade for #4 and took Murray, would the analysts be healing praise on a “smart” Spurs organization because they saw something in Murray. Kings and a history of drafting like the Kangz while the Spurs have a history of drafting players who win rings. It’s all perspective.
Yup.
and there was that story where the Warriors were completely enamored with him also, even though they knew they couldn’t get him
Pretend they never said that. 🤫
Vecenie called Murray a good player who was 8th on his board, slammed the Kings for the Davion Mitchell draft last year, the De’Aaron Fox extension and the Haliburton trade in one blurb.
Then he managed to say the Kings might have a good offense. 😂😂😂
One of the hilarious takes I’ve seen in awhile.
Yeah, it was like..
”he was the best player in college basketball last year” and then proceed to diss the Kings
whatever
Emphasis on :
whatever.
It’s just part of being a kings fan. Everyone in here probably gets that but it still sucks to hear the simple narrative regurgitated at every possible opportunity.
Jay Bills was on Scot Van Pelt Show after the draft and said Kings made a great pick and Murray was the best player and most NBA ready in the draft . Just sayin .
Bilas
I think we all know Murray is most NBA ready but who the fuck wants that when you can go for someone who can be a star?
Who wants to top out at the 8th instead of trying to build a title contender?
Maybe Murray is that guy, who knows but NBA ready? Whatever. Kings need talent/stars
I think Murray’s more likely to be a star than Ivey. Ivey will need to improve a lot of skills to be a star. Murray’s already a skilled player.
I hope you are correct. If McNair is to be believed then they have their 3rd piece.
Magic Johnson was too nba ready and clearly didn’t improve in his entire career. Just like every 4 year college player that was a mature adult before being drafted in the nba. No upside.
Can be a star, yes. Will be a star? Not necessarily.
maybe! we shall see! i think yes
Ivey a star ? No evidence just guessing . Murray played in the same conference and had far better stats and was MVP . Facts not guessing .
What does ‘Star Potential’ mean, anyhow? Murray is a built-in-a-lab forward for the modern NBA. Hits threes, defends 3-5, makes good cuts/drives, rebounds, limits TOs, good athlete with long arms.
Guys like that win titles. Ivey runs faster and jumps higher. If we’re running track, maybe then Ivey has more star potential. Other than that, there’s not much he can do on a basketball court that Murray doesn’t do better. I’ll take my chances with him.
I think it is the athleticism, and that Ivey does some things that remind people of Ja. If he had Ja’s playmaking abilities, I would be much higher on him. He just seems like a completely different player to me – more of a volume scorer – and I am not sure whether he will be as efficient at that at the NBA level. I’m not saying he can’t learn to be a better playmaker, but it does not seem to be instinctive to him.
I don’t watch much college basketball, so keep in mind that is from a relatively low sample size.
I was only speaking to what I read at various sites that offered draft analysis/grades. I’m sure there were people that thought it was a good pick, but that’s not what I was reading at the aforementioned sites.
The Jaden Ivey goggles are strong!
Jayden Ivey koolaid.
That’s what the goggles are for!
1/175
sweet. Someone has their own brain!!!! Yay!!! 😃🤗
This.
do they not think some people will see how hypocritical they sound? I do.
I have heard this silly reasoning for 15 years. It never gets better.
Majority of the teams in the NBA got better last night, so not much of an accomplishment. This still isn’t a playoff team so what’s the excitement for? It’s been 16 years of this BS.
Yeah there was nothing imaginative how he used the pick and not trying to do something in the second round was perplexing. A smart 4th grader could have done what Monte did last night. Nothing against Murray who may turn out to be a fine player but I’m disappointed nothing more was done.
I could never quite grasp why Detroit or Indiana would want to trade up like every pundit and many many fans implied like it was such an easy decision for Monte. The cost to select Keegan Murray at 4 was steep. Why didn’t anyone trade with Detroit to get Ivey? Was Detroit stupid and miss a huge opportunity to trade down and get more assets when Ivey “fell” to them? Where were the huge offers the kings passed up on. This stuff is too easy to debunk.
This
If Ellis is a two way player you have a very loose definition of a two way player.
He’s on a 2 way contract & has the potential to be a good 3&D player (though it seems like he’ll have to at least get stronger to do that), so it works in 1 sense of being a 2 way player & could potentially work in a 2nd way
Ellis was named to the All SEC Defensive Team and he also shot 37% from 3 and 88% from the FT line, so he looks like a potential two-way player.
I for one didn’t think anything was going to happen on draft night. I’ve learned my lesson long long ago. There’s always a lot of chatter around this team making moves and being in on several trade talks. Very rarely does anything extra ever happen. Very rarely.
Murray and trading away second round picks is par for the course. I like Keegan over Jayden. Maybe I’m wrong but the Ivey hype was total BS. Sure he’s good but if he was so amazing he would have snuck into the top 3. I don’t buy that drafting Murray was for “fit” or the “safe pick”. He was voted the best player in college basketball last year. Not sure where an argument can be made that makes his selection any less smart then literally any player in this draft. It’s not fact. The professional opinion makers form normal fans opinions. Those guys are routinely wrong every year without fail. Keep it real.
Agreed! If movement and gambling the franchise assets, just the sake of doing so, is the best draft day option, then the Knicks won the decade Thursday.
Totally agree with Greg that “We can quibble about who we think is more or less likely to reach that highest level, but at the end of the day we’re all guessing, and there’s perfectly sound arguments to be made in favor of either player.” I think a lot of people get into their draft mode and think their guesstimates are scientific truth (hmm, hmm, James Ham). What about the three #2 pick in the draft players who played for the Kings in the last seven or eight years? If I remember, Bucks fans were ecstatic to get Jabari Parker in 2014. Darrell Williams was rated most NBA ready in the draft. How did that turn out long term?
I don’t mind taking fit into consideration for a draft pick. Murray and Ivey were the two best players in the Big 10 this year but Murray is like getting a solid fielding short stop while Ivey is like a potentially decent hitting left fielder. There are a lot more of the latter than the former. If scoring 2 guard is such a position of need why did the Kings trade Buddy Hield?
Agree and Murray not Ivey was Big 10 MVP with better stats across the board .
A lot of these analysts don’t know what they are talking about or just throw a lot of fluff out there that means nothing.
Can anyone clarify, when a team trades for cash (as the Kings often do) does that money go into an operational budget that Monte has to play with or into the pockets of owners? Or is it some combination of both?
Also, if it goes into an operational budget, why have the last 3 GMs under Vivek so often traded for cash? Are they limited by ownership with a budget of how much they can spend, because we all know they’ve been in the bottom half of salaries in the Vivek era.
I only ask because it seems to me the Kings do it more often than any other franchise.
I’m going to guess that it’s going to the operational budget, but that’s to make up for shortfalls in that budget. Or possibly, just to increase the overall budget.
At least you state you are guessing this time.
As opposed to what other times?
Generally you talk out of your ass and act like it is some sort of gospel while trying to pretend to be smart by writing endless rambling posts that you copy paste random crap you read into without any order or logic followed by quoting someone’s point but never actually making your own rambling point that never ends t just goes and goes sometimes about clay ovens sometimes about basketball usually copy and pasted stuff from your latest Google search……just rambling nonsense.
You should be the only one that might understand that……
Great contribution! Very constructive.
I didn’t realize I had mentioned clay ovens. Since we’re here, I highly recommend them. My Mom and I had a terrific sirloin baked in one. Threw in some red potatoes, carrots, red bell peppers and onions as well. Awesome stuff once we cooked the sirloin long enough. (It depends on your preferred preparation, of course.)
I didn’t realize you were such a big fan of clay ovens!!! Nice to meet ya buddy!!!
The check goes to the organization and the organization decides what to do with it. Same as when you buy something from a store. The business gets the money and decides what to do with it.
We can only hope the Kings use it to improve. Most likely use it to pay coaches that no longer work here.
Damn, I was having login issues yesterday during the draft, so I couldn’t comment on TKH until I tried again just now. Glad I’m freeeee!
Coincidence?
I have never seen Klam and Monte McNair in the same room at the same time.
That’s probably a good thing. I’m quite sure Klam has forgotten more about Chinese food than Monte McNair will ever know. And that loss of knowledge would set humanity back quite a ways. We couldn’t have a football jock from an Ivy school suddenly become a connoisseur on what constitutes good Chinese food, could we? That would just be wrong.
Probably even a connoisseur about Chines breakfast!
Spock gif = auto up vote
I know how you feel. My Cable and internet went down around 5:15 and I didn’t get back up and running til around 7:00. Most relaxing draft I’ve gone thru in years. I could not be more pleased with the Murray selection and believe he is actually going to help make the team better in his rookie year. Don’t understand why the Kings didn’t hold on to their first second round pick but WTF.
Jaden Hardy may well turn out to be this years Gary Trent that was given away . Seemed a mistake based on his top 5 HS rating . Not taking a swing where it’s easy could prove costly .
More likely he’s this year’s Jordan Bone.
Yes, probably true but if he finds his potential it is a Sluck up on asset acquisition . Just sayin when you don’t swing you can’t hit .
I guess I just don’t get how drafting Murray is not swinging.
Drafting Murray at 4 is not swinging at 37. They had another couple ABs if they wanted them.
I don’t buy Monte’s “No Mandate” comment. His days are numbered. If the Kings don’t trend towards Play-in, Monte will be Vi-wrecked. If so I don’t see Sabonis re-signing either 23-24 season.
Highly unlikely we make the playoffs or play-in this year, so I think MM is gone next off season.
Agree, if nothing more is done and I mean significantly more, we are looking at 30-35 wins next year.
A real GM would have shipped out Fox and Barnes, acquired multiple assets, saved cap space, and started this dreck team from scratch.
So true, anybody off the streets could have done what Monte did last night.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Let’s hear it for your New 2023-24 GM, cum New 2023-24 PG…
I think it’d be hard to convince Vivek that trading Fox is the right move.
I just don’t see the vision. Look at the young core from Houston, OKC and Detroit, who embraced full rebuilding process. Kings fans are eager for a home run because it looks like the only thing that can save us.
Is there enough talent in fox-davion-barnes-keegan-sabonis? We need a leap and concistency from two of them, at least. All good players, would help a lot of franchises, they just may not be the right collective to form a winning team. Let’s see what Mike Brown can do and hope that Monte is a lot right in his recent choices.
There is no vision. Just throwing darts at the board hoping something sticks. I was hoping for McGenius but it’s looking more like McFired by the trade deadline or next off season.
Absolutely a vision, it’s high bbiq players that are 2 way players.
I think that remains to be seen. If the vision is high bbiq guys that are two way players, one would presume that the defense and overall bbiq of the team would start to improve at some point right? Certainly haven’t seen any evidence of that yet.
Ownership not allowing a complete tank at any time over the past few seasons is the real difference. All three of these teams threw in the towel before Halloween, and we’re seeing the fruits of their, well, not labors, perhaps schemes is the better word.
scheming is a way of laboring in this business
Then I’m the hardest-working man in show business.
My nuts are still sore.
True and that gets back to no plan or vision.
Yes. A better way to put what I said. Rebuild you morons, don’t reload. You’re not in that position amd never have been under Vivek, though he acts like the Kings are always a move away.
Ground breaking take
The single biggest problem with the Kings (and what annoys about this draft) is this no rebuild No foresight mandate from the single biggest problem with this franchise…….. you know who
I think the vision is what scares me. The Kings have decided Fox is to be built around come hell or high water. They seem to feel that he and Sabonis are a core that will win.
Thanks to Vivek and his short sighted idiocy the Kings have not attempted to really rebuild, like small market teams and well run teams do, they just try to reload.
I’d rather have Hali amd Mathurin and rebuild etc etc.
So, I question if the Kings have chosen the correct path and players. And why this pick irks and draft day in general—-Kings should be swinging for the fences in every pic amd player.
Throw the magic in there. It could work for these teams. Have some promising pieces.
That said, I would bet a decent amount of money that at least 2 of those 4 teams are still in the lottery 2 seasons from now. That would put those teams in a 4-5 year “rebuild” without much to show for it. Guess depends what your appetitive does that is.
More than one way to skin a cat. I find it really unlikely all those teams are playoff bound after 4 seasons of tanking.
We’re 16 years in and and counting.
I have a hard time understanding a lack of appetite for a 4-5 year rebuild.
Right now, the cat is skinning us.
Sure if you start from square one and say 16 vs 4-5 that’s an easy proposition. But that’s not the situation.
My point is that bottoming out is no slam dunk proposition at getting into playoffs. There’s just as many examples of teams tinkering and building without completely tanking and improving.
I think you can argue for either method, but I don’t think it should be viewed as some plain sighted mismanagement not to try the full on 3-4 year 20 win tank method.
My point is that we tried everything else and we’re still stuck here.
The only season there probably was a concerted tank effort was in 2008-2009.
Tank jobs are no guarantee, of course.
But I personally would be more excited about a team with many young prospects and seeing how it comes to fruition like in Cleveland, Detroit, Houston or OKC, opposed to seeing us squander the last bits of Barnes’ asset value and hoping that Fox will shed the inconsistent motor and the bad D and somehow will become that guy.
Your milleage may value, and I respect that.
I was on the train for a long time and don’t discount the approach. Up until couple years ago I was going on tankthon nightly to see for positioning.
It comes down to having some competent people in the front office. If you don’t, probably doesn’t matter what method you use. If you do, I think either approach can work. Personally I like McNairs style and approach so far. The next 1-2 years will dictate if that’s an opinion that pays off.
I think it’s hard to tear it down to studs right now and say, “Buckle up people, we are going to make it to 20 years for this drought”…and have no more guarantee at results in my opinion.
If the same GM and coach had been running this for the drought obviously I would say change your methods. But they haven’t and thus I think they should be evaluated on the last 2 years…which is probably an incomplete grade at this point I’d admit.
I’d say yes and no to that.
If Vlade would have just taken Luka, no matter how bad he was until that point, I think probably the drought would have been broken and Vlade would still have a job.
That’s why tanking and taking multiople shots at high end talent is a big equalizer. If you get the occasional LBJ, AD, Durant or Luka, you’re more than halfway there.
I get your point…but he didn’t and he wasn’t competent in that moment. And he wasn’t competent when trading pick swaps for salary relief and forcing Kings to miss on Taytum. So incompetent GMs missing on the few chances you get to pick said talent is a bigger problem in my mind. If I have a smart GM, decent chance they can find a way to a good team regardless of method.
Jury still out for Monte in my mind.
As long as the FO continues to make moves around Fox (not taking Luka, trading Hali, not taking Ivey) they will never sniff the playoffs. Simple as that. He’s not a number one and to continually make moves based on him is absurd.
Seems like the pick was more about covering some of Sabonis’ shooting problems that it is about Fox’s. If Sabonis was a stretch five, the Kings would likely have looked to trade down to get Duren or Mark Williams. There simply wasn’t any leverage where Detroit was concerned,
I think they just picked the best player available.
I don’t know why it is so hard for people to accept that they chose one of the best players in college basketball who plays a very valuable position in today’s game, and is the right size and right kind of athlete to build a team with.
Narratives are powerful stuff. For alot of Kings fans these days, the draft is the only thing that matters. If you’re not uber aggressive making a 1000 moves, it will bring inevitable disappointment.
I think the biggest real criticism is the Kings didn’t use the 37th pick on an actual player, and personally I don’t especially care.
What matters are the other moves they make because they need to make other moves.
I like the pick, and I think that the Ivey has star potential takes because he’s like Ja or he’s so athletic are lazy.
Having said that, mainly pointing at Murray’s success in college basketball is equally lazy. Many excellent players at the college level failed to make a dent in the NBA.
While Murray was the best fit, I’d say he was also the BPA at #4.
Well, these takes certainly run the gamut, some of them all by themselves.
I’d have selected Ivey, but Murray is going to be great. Having said that, with some feeling that the choice made was a bad one, or even malpractice by the front office, I would ask:
Are you still pining for Tyrese Haliburton? At the time of the trade, there was a lot of talk of him being a lock to be an all-star multiple times. Murray is the exact same type of cerebral player, except that he also defends, and has no fear of contact.
I hope that both of these guys turn out to be great. I don’t know if Ivey will be a franchise guy, no one does. If Fox’s play play after acquiring Sabonis is any indicator, and Brown gets full buy-in on defense, I like Fox’s odds of being great more than I do Ivey’s.
I’m over Hali. Not as a person, because I love him. I just don’t see he being more than a role player (maybe a great one). I can go as far as saying that Domas will end up with a better career. But the trade will only make sense if Domas re-sign. That’s an important If.
I think that there are other possible outcomes with Sabonis, but don’t know more than anyone else at this point.
I’m over Hali as well. I get the feeling he’s sort of Lonzo Ball 2.0, but with some dog/defensive limitations. Weakside and off ball defense are very good. However his on ball defense is lacking and I wonder if he’s too nice of a guy. Not going to lie I’d rather have him than Fox, but I understand Indy not wanting to take Fox’s max contract and wanting Hali’s offense and rookie contract control.
Well said Andy. I have to say, I agree with our assessment that Fox is probably the most likely to be great between he and Ivey. I don’t think it is that big of step to contend for an all star appearance for Fox. This will be the best coach he has played for, and he will be playing with a big man who he can have some genuine synergy with (for what its worth, I watch a lot of Indiana basketball, and even with making two all star teams, I don’t think we have seen Sabonis fully utilized either). Ivey is probably going to need several years to be as good as Fox, and there is no guarantee that even happens.
I want the Kings to try and be good, then they can figure out how to be great. Its going to take many moves to get this team to 45-50 wins, and its not all happening in this draft.
Likewise, as pretty as those young players look in Orlando, Houston, Detroit, etc, they are going to need just as much luck to have them all develop. I keep seeing “every team in the west improved!”, but I read that every year, and every year injuries hit one team, another implodes, another fires their coach. Monte seems to have a type of player he likes, I think he made a really smart hire in Brown, I hope he just keeps to his vision, and not this stupid scatter shot of moves just to make moves, which ends up being activity without accomplishment.
But it’s so shiny at the beginning.
There is always a win now mandate here honestly, but as soon as we start trending in the right direction Vivek gets crazy and starts trying to put his touch on this teams success. This was evidenced by the circumstances of both Mike Malone and Dave Joerger getting let go. We were seriously 9 games out of the playoffs in the ’18-’19 (Luka/Bagley’s rookie years) season. It’s not apples to apples but FWIW Dallas drafting Luka resulted in 9 more wins. If you remember that year the Kings lost a lot of games in the last few minutes due mostly to poor execution in crunch time. Murray isn’t going to move the needle much. He will be a solid piece but right now this team needs to be on OKC/DET/HOU’s program.
I think the incremental way they have been doing things is more the norm these days within the league. It’s not very often you see teams making huge moves to completely change the direction of said franchise.
Murray is definitely not the most exciting player or has the most IT factor as far as attention. But I personally would love to see Kings that get back to being focused on basketball and honing their craft vs shoe deals, MVP prognostics, and NFT deals.
He showed that he was able to make those around him better last year which is something no one on the Kangz can claim with the exception of Sabonis.
Without superstars it really doesn’t matter.
Outside-looking-in franchise, providing revenue to the league so those that matter can get the shiny things.
Rinse, repeat. Seriously none of this matters without at least one bonafide star player. We don’t have that yet. Maybe Murray can be that and I think he’s at least got a chance but that ship has already sailed with Fox and Sabonis IMO. After watching the playoffs and the finals, if you don’t have guys that can either shoot or defend at a really high level you’re not going to be successful. Neither Fox or Sabonis can shoot or defend. You can get away with one of those guys if they facilitate at a really high level which Sabonis (Fox is just OK in that department) does but two of them as your best players? I don’t see it.
I’m not disappointed at all. Kings’ roster just got better.
Thanks Roundtable, for the extended, well reasoned takes. The overall impression I get is that given the horrible state of the franchise, more than ‘solid first round pick Monte’ was and is needed. Unless Monte makes some moves to get what ‘Fox and Ox’ don’t supply (outside shooting and athletic defense) before opening day, another year will have been wasted. I’d like to be optimistic but…I’m not holding my breath.
Tevin Brown got picked up by the Pacers with an Exhibit 10.
Can the Kings use these too…like signing Hyunjung Lee or Orlando Robinson to an E10?
It means the Pacers have an option on signing Brown to a Two Way Contract if Brown didnt make the Pacers squad as a minimum salary guy out of training camp, basically.
I believe this is how the Kings brought Chimezie Metu into camp back in 2021.
I looked up my top 10 that I put in the 1st community draft board. I had Keegan Murray 6th (but not behind Ivey who I put 8th). TKH had Murray 6th, too. (TKH had Ivey 5th.)
What interests me is that the Kings didn’t trade off 4, probably because there wasn’t a deal worth doing, and they clearly saw Keegan Murray. I knew they were serious about Murray because he had dinner with Fox and Sabonis.
It becomes clear that in order for the Kings to get value out of this 4th pick. Keegan Murray will have to kill it. Which he might. And that’s true of anyone you draft that high.
I’m not worried whatsoever about the sell off of the 37th pick. There were rumors early on the Kings were targeting TWC guys and they might not have gotten anyone to commit to that like they did with Queta a year ago. They did get a 27 year old Sasha Vezenkov who did shoot 37% in EuroLeague. Whether that’s meaningful who knows?
What I know is the Kings needed improvement in multiple areas this offseason. Draft, trades, free agency, internal improvement from your existing players. Sure maybe there wasn’t a trade made, but there doesn’t have to be on draft day. I think the next 14 days are crucial to next season so Im hoping it goes well.
Next level analysis. 😜
Thanks. Remind me to boo Mike Schmidt next time I see him in the street.
Murray will have to kill it- and he had better start from day 1..
The Euro league is second best league in the world- second best but Vezenkov was first team all league, along with Shane Larkin, N. Mirotic and Walt Tavares.
I think his comp is Belly- worse in some areas better in others
He could help.
The trading of the #37 is perplexing. another Gary Trent?
the roster is not “full “Surprised Ellis fell out of the draft. Jose Alvarez fell out as well and he worked out fine for NOP
Bjelly is an NBA champion, don’t you forget it. Sasha may be one too… just not in Sacramento
17 working on 18
Easy to realistically round up to 20.
That would be true no matter who they drafted.
I love reading all these hateful comments from the same people who complained about the team all season long, but don’t watch any Kings games, and don’t watch NCAA b-ball, yet they have the strongest opinions on incoming players and organizational moves.
It just gives me a fuzzy feeling all over, I don’t understand your choice of fandom but I enjoy your suffering, you deserve it.
Stop! They’re already dead.
Good point, Akis.
I do think that the moment word got out that Fox and the guys had dinner with Keegan (to check if his mother or twin brother wouldn’t cut his steak for him?), it ruined the chances of a deal with Detroit.
I am starting to fear that Monte’s “aggressiveness” in trade talks is indicating him demanding unrealistically high returns or making lowball offers. I wonder if his insistence on bargain deals is keeping him from getting deals done.
Still work to be done with this roster, with very few players shooting over .35% from 3…
Nice place to kick out your thoughts everyone.
For me, I am delighted with new Kings #13 Keegan Murray.
I liked this from the New York Post:
Let me ask you all- what would you set as success for the newest Sac King?
Is it points? and rebounds?
Is it starts? minutes?
All Rookie? 1st Team? 2nd Team? Rookie of the month? Rookie of the Year?
How will the play of Keegan Murray change you from disappointed to pleased? Will it hinge on the success or lack of, with Jaden Ivey? Or some other player(s)?
As for me, I’m headed to Summer League and I am excited to catch the play of Hawkeye Murray.
NBA Finals MVP.
I mean, the question is so hard to answer.
What if he plays great D but is a non-factor on offense? Plays the most minutes on the team but has the worst impact? Scores like Sabonis but defends like Fox? Is the best player on the team but leads us to 28 wins?
I guess I want him to have a good season, adjust quickly to the NBA, stay healthy and have a real positive impact on the team on both sides of the floor, leading to wins.
I’m asking both for your thoughts and others in the community and do so selfishly to help mold my own idea of what “success” will mean.
Incrementally, rookie season stats will help formulate that – double digit scoring average, how many double doubles (he’s at the 3/4, gotta rebound). Second and third seasons are too distant a view.
Will you be satisfied with “the eye test” or “Dude’s a baller”? Davion Mitchell fits that criteria, to me. Hali’s rookie campaign, likewise, of course.
Not asking for “Hot Takes” though being the second rookie to get NBA Finals MVP would be magical.
And on the other side of the coin:
What stats or items must Murray not accomplish to be a “success”?
For instance, if he doesn’t make All-Rookie 1st team as the 4th pick – would that be a disappointment or “bust”?
Just sending out feelers on how to interpret this draft pick, four months too early, but that’s what we do.
My first reply was tongue in cheek but the second one was a genuine attempt at a reply.
I don’t put much stock in individual stats (especially counting stats) without context. Fox puts up gaudy stats but it means little. People were all excited about the return of Whiteside because of his rebounding and block averages. We saw how that turned out. It’s not just about stats.
A player’s impact is measured by how he fits into the team system, elevates the play of his team and helps the team to wins. That can be done in different ways, and is so difficult to measure.
Guys like Curry, Durant demand show much attention that they create space for others. Kahwi is a two-way player. Butler as well, and a fierce competitor who leads by example. Draymond is a good facilitator and a disruptor on D, doing the little things. Guys like 3CP and Jokic are such savvy passers. Etc.
My first hopes/expectations of Murray for his first year are him being a glue guy, Battier type of player. Playing solid D, rebounding, running the floor hard, keep moving on offense and space the floor by hitting the 3 at a reasonable clip and making the extra pass so the ball moves around.
yes, of course. As was my gif reply.
There is so much distracting noise to influence our interpretations. My take on your take is that Murray was drafted as much for talent as fit – you expect to see some talent but you also expect that he shows that he fits. Clearly reasonable.
One of the glaring faults in Sacramento’s inability to improve has been, in my opinion, the lack of stability in a system. Once you have a system, or call it a culture, the team can better become what it is intended to be. Boston, for instance, is a defense first team. Spurs, likewise, and I expect Mike Brown Sacramento to also follow that path.
Is Keegan Murray a system capable fit? (Forget Fox and Ox for now, please). On paper, yes.
I think he’s much a system guy than Jaden Ivey and that is in general, not just Sacramento. I expect Murray to be a very good get. System wise and production wise (stats). Will that translate to wins? I expect so. But not many as a rookie third option.
This quote was taken from the Ringer article last month:
I thought it was the same quote, but I think it’s a great quote nonetheless.
Success for Murray? High level starter. Ivey isn’t in the equation. As long as Bagley had been a high level starter, the Luka comps would’ve gone away in time. No-one’s trippin’ on the Suns for drafting Ayton, and even Phoenix knows they didn’t get a max player at #1. None of us can forget that Sac got a bust at #2!
No one’s trippin’ on the Suns drafting Ayton? I know some Suns fans and they are absolutely trippin’ on the Suns drafting Ayton over Luka. The Kings had a choice between Murray and Ivey. They chose Murray. If Ivey is a star and Murray is just ok (not a bust, just solid) then it was a bad decision and it will be remembered.
Fair enough.
I don’t care what his stats are if he helps the team win more games. He also needs to be better than Jaden Ivey because that’s the choice the Kings made. If Ivey is a star and Murray is just ok then it’s a massive whiff. That’s just how it is when you have a franchise with no stars.
It’s a problem if Ivey’s a lot better than Murray, but it’s not a problem IMO if Ivey’s slightly better than Murray.
Other than age, is there a reason to think Vezenkov can’t be as good as Bogi? He’s 6’7″, does pretty-much the same things, has had similar success in Europe, and he fits better, as a wing with size. He looks very much NBA ready.
He has a buy-out, so he’s really more like a free-agent than a traditional draft pick. IIf they can get him over here this season, he’s the ultimate win-now 2nd rounder in that way. Bogi made an impact from day 1, but his contract was expensive, for a rookie. Bogi also cost a first-round pick, in trade.
Did Monte talk about the chances of making the buy-out? Is that why the “Cash Considerations?” The Kings still need a Small Forward who can shoot. Barnes looks to be on his way out. And even with HB they need some depth at 3, some one who can handle and pass a bit.
Admittedly, I didn’t know who he is but, I’m not so sure Monte punted that pick. Compare Vezenkov the AJ Griffin. Another 6’7″ guy who can shoot but with further to go developmentally. Griffin costs less money, but more draft capital. Vezenkov = a boy in the bush if they can get him in their hands.
If you watched him and Bogi play in Europe that would not be discussed . Not close in any way and more like a poor version of Neminja .
Your right in assuming I didn’t watch Bogi play in Europe, (except for highlight reels after he came to Sac) did you? I’d never heard of him before the draft day trade. Bjelica was a Euroleague MVP, now an NBA champ. He was a steal at #35.
Vezenkov compares much more closely to Bogi as they are both hot shooting wings, of a similar size, and age. In fact, since you brought it up I looked up his pre-NBA bio, and was surprised just how similar were their stats. I could cherry-pick some for you, but maybe you should just check it out for yourself.
One thing that I found interesting, Vezenkov was Euroleague MVP for February. Apparently MVP is a monthly award over there. Bogi’s career 3-point percentage is significantly better, but Vezenkov seems to have found another gear, and had a red-hot season for Olympiacos (.430 & .459 Pct on 3s last 2 years).
Also Vezenkov played the most minutes on his team despite being the 3rd leading scorer. He seems to know how to play a role, w/o being the focus of the offense, which is good. He is the only guy who made 1st team Euro with no NBA experience.
One other thought, if Bogi was big enough to be a legit 3, he would be a superstar. Guards with his skill-set are less rare. Although Vezenkov will likely also have trouble guarding 3s, he is a bit bigger, and even played some Power Forward. I like the idea of him, we’ll see how he actually fits (if he comes). Feel free to explain your counter opinion in greater detail if your still not convinced.
I do watch Euro-league.
Bogi was a different kind of player on a different team. Bogi was a clear SG and he played on the perimeter.
I have not seen Vezenkov as much, but he is bigger (at 6/9), slower and not as “athletic”. He compares far more to Belly. Not as good of a shooter but better defender and passer.
Best- first forward off bench and contributes-plays 15 minutes per game
Worst- stays in Europe.
Expect- second unit guy, good for some match ups and gets 10 minutes per game.
Exactly the player I watched . Not close to Bogi in talent and value .
But if he can stay on the court, he’s already more useful than BoBo.
Sometimes I wonder if Monte truly feels a “win-now mandate.” No sense in saying your not trying to win to season-ticket holders. Appease Vivek, and just keep making incremental improvements. As long as the team is making observable progress, will Vivek have the gall to actually let him go with a three year draft record of one star (Hali), two starters (Mitchell and Murray), and no busts?
Even if Vivek does let him go, how long would he stay unemployed? The Kings may need a “homerun” but Monte just needs to keep manufacturing runs to pad his resume. Why swing for the fences with Ivey, when he can take another base-hit, and not worry about striking-out.
What incremental improvements do you mean?
The Kings most recent “peak” was in 2018-19, when under Joerger they had a 39-43 record (9th in the West).
The next season (19-20) was the last season with Divac at the helm; they went 31-41 (12th in the West).
The first season under Monte, they also went 31-41, 12th in the West.
Last season, they went 30-52, again 12th in the West.
No incremental improvem,ent so far…
So to even incrementally improve over “peak” Divac, the team needs to go at least 40-42, which would constitute a 10 game jump over last season. Not even a winning season. Should be doable, right?
“Incremental improvement” is the term I keep hearing thrown about. I’m really talking here about the eye-test, and specifically Murray vs. Ivey, or “star potential” vs. “safe pick.” Obviously, the wins haven’t come yet but, if the level of talent is higher, and the team is, or looks to be headed, in the right direction? Moreover, as it reflects on Monte’s resume, he can hang his hat on his draft record.
In terms of track record, Vivek is as likely to fire him for no reason (hello Mike Malone). So why dance on Vivek’s strings when there are better jobs across the league available to a guy who has proven he can draft consistently good players with no busts? Does he need a homerun on his record? Or should he be focused on batting a thousand?
It’s like “The Price is Right,” aim high but, whatever you do, don’t bust!
Btw, if you aren’t the most entertaining poster on this sight, your very close. Thanks for the response!
Yeah, hard to argue with that. It’s not a workplace that encourages people to bring out their best each day.
Thank you!
Monte can hang his hat on draft success . That is correct but not what good GM’s do . They build winning teams by any and all means . To date, McNair seems more equipped to be a 2nd banana .
A lot of you can criticize the pick with all of your conjectures , like you all are nba draft experts shitting a brick because Monte didn’t go for the so called roll of the dice Ivey Superstar. If I EG was so great then why wasn’t he picked in the top 3? You guys don’t know more than McNair point blank. You haters are at home on the couch eating your Doritos and have no clue how to operate anNBA franchise with a garbage owner like Vivek. Quit criticizing Monte until you’ve been in his shoes and trying to clean up the train wreck that has happened the past 20 years. You guys think this train wreck can be fixed in a couple years ? Get real real or get off your acid trip. Monte knows far more than anybody on this site and if you think you can repair this train wreck of your toll of the dice with Ivey then just remember your roll of the dice gave us Bagley instead of Doncic.
I was mostly with you until the Luka vs. Bagley reference. I’m not really seeing the analogy there. I don’t remember anyone referring to Bagley as a “safe pick.”
Actually, Monte has not improved the team as yet . Season 3 will be the evidence and another 12th place in the west will be the answer . The record is the record .
Most of this is pretty incoherent but I am enjoying my acid trip.
All you need to know about draft night is that arguably the most athletic/highest ceiling player in the draft was weeping tears of joy with his family that he dropped a peg in the draft to get away from the Kings and play for the lowly Pistons. That’s what its come to … Tim is right, nobody wants to come to a dysfunctional small market in FA, so for Sac’s braintrust to blow its BPA at #4 is just … more disappointment gravy on the Kangz buffet.
This isn’t a knock on Keegan. He’s a solid, safe pick and I will certainly root for him to have his SECOND impressive season at 22, and to prove everyone wrong in a big way — I hope all of the carping will help him play with a medieval chip on his shoulder … Prove the entire world wrong. And try not to get dunked on by Ivey or Bagley when we play the Pistons, b/c that oops will be raining down.
Nobody should pretend that Monte and crack staff knows something about Keegan that nobody else in the NBA does — More likely a case of doing what the boss man says and being too scared to take a big swing, or bring another malcontent to bummers palace.
Nearly every national commentator called that out for it was: WEAK. So many teams were dying to have Ivey … and we had him for a few brief ticks, then hit the Barnes reboot.
Just please stop comparing Ivey to Fox …. Ivey is 4 years younger and already WAYYYY more explosive/athletic, stronger to rim, absorbs contact, better handles, likely will be better passer, and already seems better able to get his own shot, and he’s got big development years ahead. More importantly, he plays with a ferociousness/fearlessness that Fox rarely, if ever, exhibits … maybe a couple times when he got mad at a ref or something. And it won’t take much for Ivey’s jumper to surpass Fox’s, sadly … Or to make better decisions in crunch time.
Just need someone to get mad and have a breakout year. Fox, Keegan, Queta, Donte, anybody. Make Sacto fun again. For the love of Pete.
Ivey is not what you think . Less talented in HS and college compared to Fox . Did you watch his terrible game against a no NBA talent St. Peter’s ? 9 pts on 17 shots and 6 to’s . Likely to be this drafts – Dennis Smith jr. .
I hope you are both right. But Kangz tradition leads me to believe Ivey will blossom, which I’m still waiting on Fox to do.
You’re right that people shouldn’t compare Ivey to Fox. But it’s because Ivey simply isn’t the same level of prospect. Ivey is stronger but significantly less skilled even as a Sophomore as compared to Fox’s Freshman year. There’s a reason nobody sees Ivey as a candidate to be a primary ball handler in the NBA and Fox was. Heck, there’s a reason Purdue’s offense didn’t even run through him this year.
This is purposely obtuse. He was weeping because he got away from the Kings, or he got drafted to play in Detroit where is Mom who he is incredibly close with had her WNBA career and his Grandfather played in the NFL for the Lions, and he would be playing with a Rookie of the Year candidate in Cade who will be the primary distributor and take the pressure off of him, and no other guard talent of any significance to impede his minutes and shots? Good Lord.
Some other guys the Kings picked up: Jared Rhoden (summer league), Jeriah Horne (Ex. 10 deal), Jai Smith (summer league). Thoughts?
3 & D Wing City
Summer League, here we go!
So after taking a day here are my thoughts. Weirdly I am happy and pissed off at the same time. First, the happy. I really like the Murray pick. He is what you want in the NBA now, a long switchable defender who can hit the 3, and score. He checks all those boxes. The knock on him is not that he’s unathletic, just not crazy athletic. It’s interesting if you look at the Luka /Bagley debate. Luka was the smart, solid, all around player. Bagley was the athletic guy (remember the second jump) with potential to shoot the three. Remember the early comparisons to Giannis? He WAS the upside pick. In this draft, Ivey is Bagley. Plus, if you really want to swing for the fences – the highest upside guy in the draft was Sharpe. I do t see any angst over not picking him.
Now the cons. They sold the 37 pick and sorta the 49. That’s a disturbing trend and screams “don’t try everything to get better if it costs money.” Other posters said it perfectly. Take a swing! What does it hurt. Why passing in the pick(s) makes me bummed is it just reduces my faith t BFF at these team is really committed to winning. Sure, they’d like to win. But if it’s gonna cost too much, we’re ok with treading water.
So, happy and sad, all at the same time. Kinda the story of my Kings fandom.
Reduces my faith that this team is really committed to winning. Sorry. Didn’t spell check.
Too much doom and gloom. Look at the roster coverage by minutes played by quality nba players.
Pg – 48 minutes covered (fox/davion)
Sg – 48 minutes covered (donte, Davion, td)
Sf – 20 minutes covered (Barnes)
Pf – 36 minutes covered (Barnes/Murray)
C – 48 minutes covered (Sabonis/Holmes)
We have 40 quality minutes we need to find coverage for, primarily a SF that can play some small ball 4. We need another Barnes or to upgrade Barnes. That’s Monte’s task for the rest of the off-season.
Any good or free agent SF available at current market ?
(Otto Porter , and who else?)
TJ Warren but I think it’s too hard to grab FA worth more than the MLE so we likely have to use future firsts to make it happen.
Kyle Anderson likely best MLE level guy that fits our need.
Kyle Anderson would be my number one target with the MLE if I were the Kings. He’s always been a good passer and defender and a passable shooter. We need all the wings we can get.
I agree, him on the MleMwould be nice and then I’d love for them to swing big with Barnes, Holmes and future picks to trade for a stud like bridges, OG etc
TJ also basically hasn’t played in two years. I’m open to taking a very low cost, team-friendly shot at him, but you definitely don’t want to depend on him playing real minutes. Or at all. He should be seen as a lottery ticket.
I see a bunch of guys who are fine but nobody who is pushing us into the playoffs in this group. I see almost nobody who can shoot, a couple solid defenders and a couple really bad ones. Limited shot creation. If I squint maybe I can see a play-in appearance if everything goes right but is the goal the 10th seed? I just see almost no long term upside here and I see other teams like OKC and Houston who will be much better than us in a year or two. I don’t want to be pessimistic but I really just don’t see it with this group. Monte needs to significantly upgrade the talent with one or more high end two way players or I think we’re right back in the lottery.
Okc and Hou are 2 years from being 2 years away, stop it.
Name your couple of really bad defenders? Fox only one potentially and I think that changes under MB.
I really hope they can use future firsts to lock in a high quality SF.
Fox is terrible and Sabonis isn’t much better though he can hold up in the post alright. Barnes isn’t very good on defense. Davion is good as is DDV. Murray has a chance to be but I doubt we see it this year.
As for OKC and Houston, I like OKC more and I would trade anyone on our roster for SGA right now. He’s easily better than Fox IMO. They just grabbed Chet who I really like and Giddy was great last year as a rookie. I think they’ll be bad for one more year to try and get Victor Wembanyama and then they take a leap like Cleveland did last year. Houston has Green who really came on at the end of the year and Jabari who was my number one player in this draft and could be a two way stud very quickly. Two years away from two years away? I don’t think so. Oh and both teams have a massive war chest of draft picks to trade to accelerate their rebuilds if they chose. All told, I think the Kings have the worst current asset situation in the western conference narrowly edging out the Lakers because they still have Lebron and AD even if they’re also a mess.
I don’t want to be a downer but this is just how I see it without significant moves being made in the near future.
I don’t think this is fair. OKC has a war chest because of the Paul George trade and Houston has a war chest from the Harden trade. Monte had Buddy Hield as a trade chip.
Monte has avoided the egregious mistakes of past regimes and seems to make us incrementally better every year. The problem is people want immediate results. The 16 year drought isn’t his fault. We are a move or two away from respectability. Once we have shown a little stability, we might actually be able to attract a quality player in free agency. One step at a time.
I think it’s fair because while McNair may have avoided any Luka level mistakes thus far, he hasn’t made this team better than his peers have made their teams. If we get better but other teams get better faster or or add significant high end talent, then we stay exactly where we are.
The reality is that in McNair’s first two years we’ve actually gone backwards in the win column. Why? Teams like New Orleans who traded their star player are now substantially better than we are. The Suns were worse than the Kings during the bubble season and where are they now? That’s precisely the problem. We may get incrementally better but that really only matters if it out paces other teams or the team is looking to go from good to great.
Teams that have been bad for as long as we have need a massive talent upgrade to springboard them into relevancy. We just haven’t had that at any point. I think our best chance to make that happen to is get exceedingly lucky in the draft and get Wembanyama next year. Outside of a no doubt franchise changer, I just don’t see it. Or Vivek sells the team.
Sadly we’ve had the hit the lotto of bad owners twice and it’s pretty hard to come back from that. Hell, the Knicks are legacy franchise and even they can’t overcome their incompetent owner. If they can’t do it, how much harder is going to be to make it work in Sacramento? I’ve just made peace with this fact. And I’m rooting like hell for Murray. Who knows, maybe he’ll end up being a star. That would be cool! I just don’t expect it at this point.
This is absurd logic. So let me make sure I understand. It’s McNair’s fault that New Orleans had Anthony Davis to trade…. a full year and half before McNair got to Sac.
The Suns were worse during the regular part of that season…. and proceeded to go 8-0 in the bubble. I don’t think there was anyone that thought the Kings were ahead of the Suns at that point. Also, this happened before McNair got hired. I don’t see what the Suns passing the Kings in the standings has to do with McNair.
So I’m just curious exactly what McNair is really being expected to do here outside of pulling off the greatest miracle in NBA history?
If he is in fact the GM which is doubtful here are some mistakes he has made. Losing Bogi ( asset ) for nothing , signing Fox to max deal ( too soon and too much ) and not moving off Walton ( wasted year ) . Monte seems a good drafter but not a great leader and franchise builder . This season is key to his future as another 30-35 win season will not be acceptable .
Even though it shouldn’t, as a fan, a player not wanting to come here was enough to turn me off as an original ivey backer. Especially when he’s not a clear cut tier above or a sure thing. I’m convinced he and Detroit coordinated to undermine Kings being able to leverage their draft position for additional assets so I’m not as critical on Monte.
I don’t get the pearl clutching by some over the draft. Seems a month or so ago many here and elsewhere were wanting Murray. It was said he is more ready to contribute right off the bat. The 4 pick was likely not traded or swapped because there was no better deal for it.
But it’s not like this is the team we’ll see opening day, I would think Monte has stuff up his sleeve far as upgrading talent still. It just wasn’t/couldn’t be done with the pick. I suspect the Euro player we traded several second round picks for is very good (based on Monte’s record of evaluating talent so far) and there’s been talk already, with a decent chance he’ll come to the NBA this season or next
As far down the comments as I have gotten, there is a lot of passion here for the pick or the wrong pick. A little bit of “The Prince” thinking here.
Is it possible the smoke surrounding the John Collins trade was just that? If the Kings truly were going to pick Murray, why would they be looking at Collins? Was this to fortify the belief that if you wanted Ivey you need to trade up! In the end no one bought it, likely because they are equal value players in the minds of Detroit’s FO. Any lower than 5 and you are getting Sharpe or Mathurin. Any thoughts that this is completely too much? Please explain your logic.
FYI I am a Murray over Ivey guy, maybe not if we had any record of developing guys, but we don’t and Murray needs less development to be a PLAYER for years.
I really like Murray. Great improvement in year two in college, a position of need for the Kings, intelligent, good size, plays D. Looking forward to what Mike Brown does with the team.
I think Ivey is overrated – horrible assist-to-turnover ratio, just decent 3 point shooting and field goal percentage. I would expect him to hog the ball and run at the rim all game – that’s it. The “best player available” was Keegan – and it’s not even close statistically.
With that being said, why didn’t the front office even consider Ivey? Ivey mentioned several times he didn’t come in for a Kings workout, nor spoke with the team. That puts me off. If the Kings were creating a smoke screen, they could have AT LEAST brought Ivey in. It was painfully obvious the Kings wouldn’t draft Ivey, just based on what Ivey was saying about having no communication at all with the Kings. Keegan was McNair’s poster child – as McNair is all about analytics. Good job drafting Keegan, but the front office had a complete blunder in what they telegraphed.
The Heat signed Orlando Robinson. Hyunjung Lee is wait and see with his foot injury.
One other name I dug up from the bottom of the bargain bin was Missouri State’s Gaige Prim…could he be signed for Vegas? I like to think he’s a cross between Corliss Williamson and Sean May.
Let me know when you locate someone who’s crossed with Ike Diogu.
(waits for hot tub photo)
Watching the Keegan Murray intro press conference: the one term I would best describe him as is Self-Aware. It’s probably his draft age and the fact that he’s faced adversity during his Freshman season – something many of the other draft candidates have yet to experience – Bit I get the sense he knows who he is and humbly received constructive criticism. I think this will serve him well. This team will not make it easy on him to succeed and will likely under-develop him like they have done with most draft picks. But I think he has the right head on his shoulder to take it in stride and fight for his successes.
He’s been facing adversity for a long time. He had ONE D1 scholarship offer coming out of HS before he took a post HS year in Florida. That’s when he got offered the scholarship from Iowa.
What Keegan Murray is simply is, and it throws people off because of his age, is a late bloomer. It’s just that most people expect late bloomers to be “didn’t pick up a basketball until he was 16 and he’s still just learning the game”.
Sometimes guys don’t really round out their games until they are 20-21 years old. Murray’s age 21 season at Iowa was excellent. That’s the bottom line. Sure, technically he was a sophomore, but realistically it’s more like he was a Junior as he was 3 years out of HS.
Good points.
Main thing I was trying to convey was the fact that he hasn’t had it all handed to him. I think that will serve him well in this organization.
Has anybody else in here seen Jared Rhoden play? I wouldn’t be surprised if he became a solid contributor. He has a really great all around game. Good feel for the game. I’m looking forward to seeing what he can do.
You think Mike Brown is in Monte’s ear about getting Wiggins over here?
I actually kinda like the pick after watching some highlights. He’s got a great three ball and can stretch the floor. Needs to work on not getting stripped though.
Jared Rhoden (Wing, Seton Hall, Sr., 22yr) might be the other TWC.
The un drafted rookies Monte and staff brought in are solid players with a real shot (in my opinion). Feels weird to say that but all of them are fit the 3 and D mold, all are long and all are two way players with seemingly a well rounded game. I just watched highlights on all of them so I am officially an expert on these guys now. In all seriousness though, between Keon Ellis, Jared Rhoden and Jeriah Horne, theres a good chance the Kings might have found an addition to the roster in a serious position of need on a very affordable contract. I think it’s pretty clear the kind of player Monte likes now. Mitchell, Murray, Ellis, Rhoden, Horne, DD who he traded for twice are all two way players. Thats just on the base level. Theres more links if you dive in deeper. I like what I think I’m starting to figure out is Montes vision.
Which leads me to believe that Monte will be making serious offers for guys like Miles Bridges (MY DREAM FOR THE KINGS), Andrew Wiggins and Otto Porter.
Sign and trade with the Hornets – Barnes and Holmes plus filler and second round picks for Miles bridges at 30 million for 4 years. You have to pay big for a guy like Bridges to come to Sac. I truly believe he could be a “missing piece” type player for this team. Hello Playoffs.
Sign and trade: Harrison Barnes and second round picks for Wiggins
Sign straight up: Otto Porter
OX
Murray
Bridges
Dante
Fox
I also like Harrison Barnes and Trey Lyles for the Wizards Kyle Kuzma and Rui Hachimura. Did some comparisons on Kuzma and he beats out a lot of players like John Collins. Salary is very good for next to years. Hachimura would be a good backup at power forward as he shoots over 44% from three. We need that.
I forgot to add 2023 first round to trade. Sorry.
Wait, are you saying the Kings would add a 2023 1st?
I’m curious in what ways you see Kuzma beating out players like Collins? I’m not a big Collins fan, but the only advantage Kuzma has over him is being a less bad passer.
I hit up the hornets blog about Bridges, they said almost no chance they don’t match max and it’s all smoke from klutch sports.
He would be excellent though. I think our best shot is Wiggins.
Yeah, I find it really hard to imagine CHA won’t match any offer. Though there may be ways for the Kings to benefit from that.
I’d be terrified to be the team that gives Wiggins a big extension. It would be classic Kangz to drop a bunch of money on a guy that looked good in a narrow role surrounded by stars then be SHOCKED when he pumpkins when asked to do more for the Kings.
My exact problem with Wiggins for basically the entirety of his career
Paying him 1st guy money for 3rd-4th guy production.
Good luck with that.
He was clearly the 2nd best player for that team, not 3rd or 4th
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