Welcome back to Chainmail! Well folks, this has been quite the week of luck in the Kangzdom. Of course, I’m talking about the Kings getting the incredible and unexpected opportunity to hire Anjali Ranadive to the Stockton Kings front office! Oh, and the Kings jumped to the 4th pick in the 2022 NBA Draft, something that only had around an 8% chance of happening. Luck, luck, and more luck!
All of those things, in addition to the re-hiring (unfiring?, promoting?) of Alvin Gentry and the hiring of Mike Brown have the Kings in an highly interesting position over the next several weeks. The top-3 of the draft will most likely end in some version of Chet Holmgren, Jabari Smith Jr., and Paolo Banchero going back-to-back-to-back, leaving Jaden Ivey as the consensus top available prospect, a player who doesn’t exactly fill a ton of needs for Sacramento’s roster. Meanwhile, lower-ceiling, higher-floor players such as Keegan Murray and AJ Griffin are waiting in the wings, a pair of forwards who could solve a ton of shooting and defensive issues for this core.
Add in the rumored playoff mandate, Monte McNair’s expiring contract, Domantis Sabonis’ free agency coming sooner than everyone wants to discuss, mock drafts, workouts, the possibility of trading up, the possibility of trading down, and everyone’s habit of throwing crazy (and usually justifiable) trades Sacramento’s way on draft night, and this fan base is in for a hell of a few weeks. Let’s kick off the craziness in our own little corner of basketball hell with some questions!
Now, get to asking, so we can get to answering!
Rank your top six draft prospects, and then rank what you perceive as the organization’s top six draft prospects.
This is really random but is that Gabe Vincent being signed? It sort of looks like him with different hair. If so, that makes this picture that much more hilarious because he’s currently starting and playing great in the conference finals.
IIRC, yes. I know that he played for the Stockton Kings.
Vlade’s list keeps gettin’ funnier with age!
This makes me wonder: would we be better to have MPJ and his bloated contract compared to what we got with Bagley?
The Kings are in a place where there are many good options.
What is the most realistic way they Kangz it up?
Trade the 4th for the 5th and Bagley.
Lmaoooo
Pretty sure Mike Brown will not do this:
But this is so Kangzy – Whoever they pick will not be given the playing time that Kings fans want. And fail to develop and/or showcase his skills on the court!
Who have they failed to develop?
Vincent for example. Now starts for Heat and played last season for Stockton Kings . Not even invited to camp 😂
It seems most people think we will take a player at 4 or trade down for a pick and a Vet. I feel like I’m in the minority of thinking we will trade up. If we traded up from 4, what’s a realistic trade for the #1 pick?
#4 + Fox. Or #4 + a very lightly or unprotected future 1st.
Based mostly on the PHI – BOS 2017 trade. Then again in ’93 the cost of moving from #3 to #1 (to draft Webber) was 3 future 1sts.
Wow, that’s an insane amount of value for the number 1. I’ll have to look up to see who the future firsts turned into. Without knowing, I’m guessing Webber was still worth more.
I would definitely do the second trade you proposed. If we were trading Fox though, I’d attach him to a lightly or unprotected future first and go for #1 while keeping #4.
I would do #4 and unprotected future first for #1 any day. Reminds me of the move Dallas pulled to get Luka.
who’s the prospect that you feel is “Luka” in this draft?
Better question – what is it like having hindsight on Luka and nobody in this draft?
Barely anyone thought Luka was going to be THIS good – a once in a generation talent (in hindsight). The consensus was Ayton had a higher ceiling and Luka was the higher floor safe pick who seemed like he topped out skill wise. Argue about it all you want, that was the pre-draft mentality. A majority of us had Ayton as the top pick.
I’m not comparing anyone to Doncic, I’m comparing the trade. The #1 pick regardless is extremely valuable. The Mavs traded #5 and their unprotected pick the following year to move up to #3 for Doncic.
I thought Luka was going to be this good. It was actually really obvious. He was the most decorated European prospect ever dominating grown men in the second best league in the world at 17 years old. A LOT of people thought Luka was going to be amazing. Sadly there were two dumb teams at the top of the draft and one slightly less dumb team that traded him. I don’t see any future MVP/best player in the league candidates in this draft.
There is no sure thing at 1 . This draft may turn out like most and have the best player taken in the teens .
I don’t see Luka in this draft.
Because we don’t have hindsight on this draft. That’s pretty obvious.
I don’t think that there were many of us that needed more than three seconds of hindsight to understand that Luka was not only the correct pick, but also the incredibly obvious one.
VD will wreck one’s thinking process.
If the Kings can’t get reasonable return from Detroit or Indiana for swapping down to five or six, and the #4 pick isn’t used as part of a package to bring back a very good player, who do you like at four, assuming that the top three goes as expected?
I like any of Sharpe, Murray or Ivey with that pick, and even though Murray at four might be a tiny stretch, he sure seems like the type of player that McNair has gravitated to: Smart, hard-working, teachable, and hungry. He’s probably the most plug & play of the three, too.
As ever, a great problem to have, but that doesn’t make finding the answer particularly easy.
I don’t think 4 is a reach for Murray. I think he has as much claim to that slot as anyone else outside the top 3. And I think it’s the most likely outcome.
Murray seems like the most safe pick there.
I could agree with that. He’d probably be considered the highest floor of the 3 guys being talked about (Ivey, Sharpe, Murray).
I like Murray at #4. The other two are a tier below for me. I also like Grifffin at 4, or any of the consensus top 3. I’d probably shop anyone else pretty hard, unless they wowed in workouts. Workouts may be the main factor.
I’d say that Sharpe & Ivey are in the same tier as Murray. However, I don’t think Ivey’s a good fit w/Fox & I worry about not being able to see how well Sharpe would’ve done against college competition. At the same time, I worry that Murray has a lower ceiling than Sharpe & Ivey.
IIRC, some folks thought Scottie Barnes was a reach at #4 when the Raptors passed on Suggs, who some thought was a top 3 pick. I could totally see that situation happening again with Murray being taken before Ivey.
“Some folks” are always going to think odd things. For what it’s worth, I still think Suggs will be good. The 2021 class had an unusual number of top picks that were good in year 1. That isn’t necessarily the norm. Suggs may just take a more conventional development path.
Speaking of “odd things,” I’d still like to hear the rationale for “some folks” putting S. Sharpe ahead of a younger, bigger, more accomplished shooter/player named AJ Griffin.
“His knee doesn’t look healed yet” doesn’t sound like a valid reason to dis-qualify a teenager.
I mean like evidence, stats, something?!
Not that I hold this opinion, I have heard…2 knee surgeries, looks to have lost some athleticism, below the rim player now, not quick, defense is suspect, stationary 3 point shooter, can’t move and relocate to catch and shoot.
There are many things with Sharpe too. He hasn’t played against big time competition, and the video available is all that people have. They go off “what could he become” and “will it translate”.
It’s draft season, nobody knows what the hell is going to happen.
I have concerns about his defense. I feel is more of an offensive weapon but could be a liability on the other end of the floor.
I think you’ll come around. He looked a little bored at Duke. He hasn’t shown out yet. I don’t know why he gets docked for playing experience, and Sharpe is assumed to have another level he hasn’t shown because he hasn’t competed on a big-time level.
The reason Sharpe is foregoing his eligibility is because he’s worth more as an unknown. If he thought his draft stock would improve with a year in college, he’d be playing at Kentucky this season. He’s hoping to take advantage now, of a team willing to bet on him before anyone sees him against high-level competition. I don’t understand how anyone can look at the Kings and see a franchise that can afford that kind of gamble.
The problem is that Griffin looked bored during the NCAA title game, and other than one good game in an earlier round, he largely disappeared.
The knee issues obviously need to be taken into consideration, but his passivity and disappearance in big moments may also be a problem.
I’m sure your not going anywhere either Andy. We’re probably both doomed to a life in the King-dom, and we’ll grow old together right here on TKH. I’ll get my chance to remind you of this conversation as well.
Um, Griffin didn’t play in the NCAA title game.
Oops, you are right of course. I was referring to Duke’s last game, but that’s a pretty important distinction.
Griffin’s lack of current athleticism is a major issue. He’s a very good shooter, but beyond that he had a pretty poor year overall. He was a defensive liability, couldn’t get past anyone, wasn’t able to create anything for teammates, didn’t rebound well.
For me, his presence in the top 10 is entirely based on whether you believe his athleticism will come back and that will unlock his defense and broaden his offensive game.
Thank you for your opinion. I dis-agree he had a “poor year overall.”
Still, no stats to support that opinion. I’ll take his size and strength over Sharpe’s hops, and a lot of question marks.
If what I saw in the tournament was a hobbled version of Griffin, then I like him even better.
i mean, you can look at his stats. Everything outside of shooting % is really underwhelming. And the defensive issues were well documented. Heck, he was literally pulled from games in crunch time because of his trouble staying in front of people.
As I mentioned, I think we saw different tournaments. Aside from a hot (in low volume) 2nd half against Ark, he really struggled to make a mark on the games.
I do think we saw him differently. Shooting % is very important and should not be overlooked or downplayed. He struggled defensively on the perimeter, and Duke didn’t need a lot of help around the basket. He’s definitely a front-court player, and at 18, he has progress to make. He’s a completely different player, and body-type from Sharpe. The Kings need more of his type of physicality, and less guys who need help from the refs.
I’ve been here for a couple years, and I’m not going anywhere. You’ll get a chance to remind me if I’m wrong.
Agree about Suggs and may be available for a low price. He was the 3rd point guard at seasons end behind Fultz and Anthony .
Suggs felt bafflingly overhyped in college. He looked like a pretty good player with the potential to have a career in the NBA, but he didn’t jump off the screen compared to a number of other players with similar attributes.
Gonzaga gets good players, and has produced some decent NBA talent, but more often than not, the marquee guys spend the winter getting fat on cupcakes and conference opponents. We are quite fortunate to have one of their best on our roster right now. I think that Hachimura has a pretty good chance at having a nice career, but he’ll likely need to leave DC to achieve it. Brandon Clarke is another possibility.
You have guys like Adam Morrison, Zach Collins, and Kelly Olynyk, lottery picks all, none of whom has ever lived up to the hype. Credit to KO, he’s turned himself into a serviceable player, but he’s never started games with any consistency.
As it relates to Holmgren, so much of whether he succeeds or not will be dependent on his ability to get stronger, and at least a little quicker. Even if he gets pushed around in the paint, his shooting and passing skills will likely make him a useful player, especially if he can hold his own on the defensive end. I’d compare the hype here to that of Porzingis, who is dinged up so often that even when he’s able to play, he’s seldom able to dominate in a way commensurate with his talent. I don’t know if I’d take him at #1, although if he’s still there at #4, you’d have to take him.
Fully aware John Stockton went to Gonzaga. And that’s your hall of fame guy, singular.
Duke has produced a dozen lottery pick disappointments as well . Why judge the school ? Judge the player Curry went to Davidson and Klay to Wash State, Lilliard to Weber State
Because it’s the school they chose, for starters. And, if they don’t develop into the players you hope, that’s part of the equation, too. It’s not like Sims is making any of this up.
While I don’t think Holmgren’s competition is the issue some make it out to be, I do think how Holmgren holds up over 82 is a legit concern. And what is Holmgren great at at the NBA level? That’s another concern for me.
There are reasonable concerns about Holmgren, IMO. Who he faced at Gonzaga isn’t one of them.
Doesn’t really answer your question but I’d really try to make it work with Detroit. I’d love to do #4+Barnes for #5+Bey. Seems like it would be a trade of Barnes+Ivey/Sharpe for Murray+Bey and I think those two would fill out the forward positions quite nicely for the next decade.
I wouldn’t say no to that, and it could easily play out as you suggest. Barnes would be a good pickup for a young team, and is also expiring, which won’t hurt. For Detroit, it’d be a matter of weighing their love for Bey against their hopes for whoever they select at four, if given the opportunity.
Hell, they might move up and take Murray, and we end up with Sharpe. I wouldn’t be upset about it.
I have a hard time seeing them letting go of Bey. Barnes doesn’t do much for them considering they aren’t in win now mode.
I think they like Bey as well. He certainly seems like he could be their starting PF for a while. That would be very surprising if they were using him as a chip like that for anything other than the top pick.
I don’t see the Kings getting Bey in a 4 for 5 swap, either, FWIW.
I agree, you aren’t going to get that much of an additional asset in a one pick trade back. Maybe you could get a future lottery protected first, but I think that is about it.
Hell no – no chance
Give us your best realistic trade(s) involving the pick.
I personally think that Keegan Murray, if he doesn’t move up, is the best and safest pick at #4.
Do you agree?
Who’s the nostradumbass? 😉
I’m curious to know too! Especially since the Google sheet link disappeared in the middle of the season.
Um, the REAL NOSTRADUMBASS would be able to predict the answer to your question, sir! 😛
Seems like a big weight has been taken off of Richaun’s shoulders this summer: is he worth keeping to see about fit as a back-up and/or increase trade, or should they look to move him this summer?
I’m guessing they won’t be especially motivated to trade Holmes, but if the right deal comes along, losing him won’t hold it up. I think they’d be perfectly happy going into best season with him on the roster.
I was thinking maybe trade him to Charlotte for Oubre and PJ Washington. Kings gets some wing depth and a look at those two guys, Charlotte gets a solid Center and allows them to develop Kai Jones and/or whomever they draft this season.
I think the Hornets are going to want to move Hayward before anyone else. I wonder if Monte would want to roll the dice on his health. If the Kings were to draft a wing or stretch 4 (Sharpe or Murray), would they consider trading Holmes and Barnes for Hayward if he came with a pick? The Hornets do have the #13 and #15
As you know, I would absolutely consider trading for Hayward assuming the additional assets for his contract are right. Which would basically be 2-3 quality assets. For example, the #13, Washington, and a future protected 1st.
The crazy, never going to happen deal I’ve been mulling over recently is a 3-way deal that sends Fox to WAS, Hayward + assets to SAC, and salary relief to CHA.
I think sending Barnes to the Hornets would qualify enough as salary relief for them. They are going to have to pay Bridges big money this summer and Barnes would only be on the books for next year. They’d have a massive payroll for one year, but would drop down below the tax line once Barnes and Oubre come off the books in the summer of 2023. Holmes would be the get for them as they desperately need a center. Acquiring Holmes also allows them to cut Plumlee’s non-guaranteed deal, saving them more cash.
I’d give serious consideration for Barnes and Holmes for Hayward and the #13, especially if there is someone around there that Monte likes. Sochan, Dieng, or Davis perhaps?
It would be even better if the Hornets could sweeten the deal with the addition of someone like Washington, but that might be pushing it.
Sounds Good!
What about Holmes and Metu plus #4 to the Knicks for Barrett and Quickly and #11. Would pick up Sochun or Eason as well.
Ugh. I would be willing to drop down to #5 or #6 if a good deal is possible, but I wouldn’t want to drop down to #11.
I doubt the Knicks would be interested in moving Barrett. I’m personally not a huge fan of him either, but I admit to being in the minority there, I think.
I don’t know how the community at large feels about Barrett, but I’m not a huge fan either.
I kind of see him like a younger version of Harrison Barnes or a meh version of Andrew Wiggins, which means his possible addition is going to move the needle much.
Oh goody.
I think Holmes is going to start the season like his ass is on fire, as he’s fully motivated after being vindicated in regard to the false allegations from his partner. He’s still somewhat redundant with Sabonis, but my hope (again, season after season), is that Holmes is working hard to become a credible threat from three. If he can just shoot 35% or better, it really changes the capabilities of the offense, and lets him play alongside Domas.
Holmes shoots free throws well, and his mechanics are fine. I’m sure stretching the floor has been largely deemphasized for him by various teams, but I do believe that he’s capable.
I’d look to trade him for cap space and a filler considering him and Sabonis don’t fit well together. That money could be used elsewhere.
What do you think the Kings will do with the pick? Flip side, what should the Kings do with the pick?
Jaden Ivey is a faster and worse shooting Ben McLemore change my mind
I don’t see it. For all his flaws and disappointments as an NBA player, Ben had a MUCH more shooting upside as a draft prospect. I think we forget that Ben was an exceptionally efficient scorer in college. As a freshman, he put up a .633 TS% shooting with .553/.420/.870 splits. For comparison, Ivey as a Sophomore just put up a .579 TS% with .531/.358/.744. As a Freshman he was .497 TS% on .508/.258/.726. And Ivey has basically zero mid-range or pull-up game.
Ultimately, Ben just didn’t process the game fast enough to let his strengths play up to expectations. I don’t think Ivey has game processing issues, so much as he has skill level issues.
Is this to say Ivey is a better or worse prospect?
Eh, if I were able to completely erase my knowledge of Ben’s NBA tenure and just think of Ben the draft prospect, I’d say Ben was a better prospect.
A lot of people said so, and six teams ahead of Sacramento saw through it. I was likely very pleased at the time to get McLemore, but Jesus, what a stiff. I honestly think that a lot of the blame for his failure to become a good NBA player is predicated on the fact that he’s not particularly bright.
Smarts aren’t necessarily required to be a star in the NBA, but I’ll take a less talented/gifted player with a big juicy brain over a comparable dumbass.
BB smarts are absolutely necessary. Which are complete different than general intelligence.
Let’s compromise and agree that Benny has neither.
Always remember on McLemore draft nite that Vivek stated they attempted to trade up to get Ben and were excited he fell to 7 . 🥸
As were most of the people here who were around then.
I think that the setup of the question already shows that they are massively different prospects.
Ivey has legitimate speed that will allow him to beat defenders consistently in the NBA and has great body control. He hit 62% of his shots at the rim last season, despite every single defense knowing he was trying to get to the hoop and Edey / Williams often clogging the paint or serving as poor P&R partners. The best coaches in college basketball had the task of stopping Ivey from scoring at the rim and couldn’t do it.
He needs more counter-moves when his momentum is stopped, more mid-range game, and probably to tweak the form on his jumper to reach his potential. But he did hit 36% of his threes and 74% of his FTs, so he’s not a 2010 Tyreke Evans-level shooter.
And his defense was so-so overall this year, but that happens with a lot of top prospects who are the centerpiece of their team’s offense. When he was engaged, he was able to play some very strong defense and has the tools to be an impactful defender (length, strength, body control / change of direction speed, lateral quickness).
Now, I don’t know how I can convince you he won’t flop like Ben did. He does have risk associated with him. But I think Ivey has a high ceiling and probably a higher floor than he gets credit for (scoring guard off the bench with meh defense). I think there’s a reasonable case for Murray and Shape at #4 as well (and potentially Griffin if the medical staff believes he played this season at 50% recovering from injury), but I think Ivey is getting a big underrated at this stage (or at least should have a bit more hype).
I’m not so much comparing them as individual players, but more making a statement that questionable defense, handling, motor, and IQ would be the undoing of an explosively athletic, offensive-minded guard.
Going by each component part:
Defense – Ivey’s tools and flashes are far better than Ben’s – though we can discuss if awareness is an issue (you laid out separately)
Handling – I don’t think this is even close. Ivey’s handles are strong, Ben’s were non-existent. I realize standards are higher for a PG or if you think Ben could have been an elite tertiary ball handler as an elite shooter. But I don’t think they are even in the same ball park.
Motor – Ivey moves a ton on offense and was both great on ball and was run in off ball action to get him moving downhill (sort of how Fox ran and benefited from Sabonis after the trade last year). There’s fair criticisms about him coasting on defense, but that is said of a lot of college stars (people said similar about Ball, Anthony, Luka, etc.). I don’t think overall motor is an issue here.
Awareness – I shy away from saying IQ nowadays as I think it’s a bit loaded. But this is a legitimate question. I would personally argue that Ivey is average (Fox-level in college) whereas Ben showed very very poor feel. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love for Ivey to have plus feel given his role, but if he did, he might be the #1 pick.
Overall, I understand your point here, but I would hypothesize that Ben had good run and jump athleticism, but it really didn’t show up on how he played and his lack of handles prevented him from using his speed. Ivey as his warts, but his applied athleticism is much more apparent. He has the handles and body control to take advantage of his other athletic gifts.
This goes back to that point on his 62% shooting at the rim with only 19% assisted, despite every coach trying to stop him from getting to the rim. He has the handles, body control, and ability to slither through traffic and score from different angles. You can throw two help defender at him and he side steps them, contorts his body and gets up a good shot, whereas, if you watch someone like Griffin, they get a help defender in front of them and can’t really navigate them, which makes it easier to stop him driving inside.
Ivey is also a much better ball handler, passer, finisher at the rim and has better decision making ability. I don’t get the comparison. McLemore was mostly just a 3 point specialist. If I had to compare, he looks more like Morant.
Ivey isn’t nearly as good of a playmaker as Morant.
He is nothing like Morant other than he drives to rim with reckless abandon
And has the same athleticism and a 3 point shot. But richie is right that Morant is a better playmaker. Ivey has shown flashes of good passing ability. Still way closer to Morant than compared with McLemore.
Which current guaranteed salaried King do you not expect to see in a Sacramento uniform to start the season? Also, which current non-King in the league do you expect to see in a Sacramento uniform to start the season?
Who of the top 3 is most likely to slip? And if it’s Banchero, how likely is he to become the Kings next terrible draft decision?
IF the Kings get Banchero, I’ll be thrilled. If he falls and becomes a terrible decision by the Kings, it will be because they decide NOT to draft him.
His skill level is amazing. He is not flashy and the 3 isn’t there yet, but he does so much more.
I can’t find the stats, but I’d be really interested to see CnS vs Pull-up break downs. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see:
A. That Banchero’s CnS 3pt percentage was solid-to-good
B. That his 3pt mix leaned MUCH farther towards Pull-ups than the other top prospects.
That’s the dream scenario, that one of the top three falls. I think any of them would make the decision pretty easy!
Truly the BB gods have smiled upon us with the #4!
I like Banchero as a prospect fwiw. I just think he doesn’t fit here, and it’s one of those situations where getting drafted by the Kings would ruin his career at the expense of the organization, again.
I think he would fit fine. Another smart player that helps creates plays and can get buckets is always nice. I think of a Webber/Divac frontcourt. Modern game is a little different, but buckets are buckets.
It’s not the scoring I’m worried about. Banchero-Sabonis is a defensive sieve around the basket.
Neither of them are bad defenders. They just aren’t classic rim-protectors. In the same vein as guys like Vucevic. Banchero is actually a pretty good defender overall. He makes smart rotations and generally does a good job being in the right position. He isn’t a defensive anchor certainly, but he isn’t likely to be a liability.
For what it’s worth, opponents shot 64.1% inside 5ft against Sabonis. For reference people shot 64.1% against AD, 64.6% against Adebayo, and 64.7% against Valanciunas.
Again, they aren’t rim-protectors who are going to make opposing players think twice about going to the rim, but I wouldn’t call them sieves. They’re be in position and contest shots.
yup, lots more to defense than blocking shots
Agreed. I don’t think Sabonis is an individually bad defender, I just don’t know if he alone can serve as the defensive anchor. I’d like his frontcourt pairing to bring weakside defense, and idk if Banchero is that guy.
And while defense is more than blocked shots, it’s also more than individual FG% within 5 feet. We still had the 24th ranked team defense overall with Sabonis manning the middle.
Sabonis played like 20 or so games with the Kings. Wonder what the defense was like during those 20 games.
This team really needs perimeter defenders to stop penetration. Once they have that, then the Defense should improve a lot.
I think the defense around the basket would be fine. I’d be more worried about how a Banchero-Sabonis combo would affect the perimeter defense.
Sabonis only has two season on his contract. Banchero could be his pupil and successor.
I think his great talent would override the poor fit. Also, there’s no guarantee that Sabonis will be w/the Kings long-term.
Great question.
Probably Chet – I would be more certain with a different top 3, but he actually makes more sense for OKC and Houston than some other teams with their current rosters / young players they probably want to keep.
But every year, we tend to see potential offensive engines creep up at the top of the draft. It’s the hardest role to fill and teams drafting at the top of the lottery tend to want a potential offensive superstar more than a high impact player who is likely a role player on offense.
Part of why Green rose and went ahead of Mobley last season. Given the individual teams, it may not happen this year. But I could see teams convincing themselves that JBJ, Paolo, Ivey, and Sharpe are potential engines and Chet is a high impact defender and offensive role player who ends up slipping slightly down to 4.
Banchero might be the most talented player in this draft. If the Kings draft him, I don’t think it’ll be a horrible decision.
Agreed, Pablo would be an excellent fit. My concerns, both fixable, are that his defensive effort needs work, and he may fall in love with his jump shot at the cost of easier shots closer to the hoop. I think the guy is a baller.
He’d be a fine fit on offense, but my biggest worry would be how a Banchero-Sabonis combo would affect the perimeter defense.
Paolo
Guh, absolutely right.
Do you think Monte gets an extension before the season starts? Or is he going into his final season with the Kings?
I doubt he’ll get an extension before the season starts. The (stupid) mandate seems to be playoffs or bust.
Are there any draft day trades involving Holmes (but not the #4 pick) that make sense?
Not kidding here but at first read I thought the head line was “Let’s talk some lottry fuck.
It is the Kangz, so that could still happen.
When talking about Harrison Barnes, seems there’s a general consensus we need to trade him before we lose him for nothing, and that teams should want him because he’s an expiring contract. Besides the obvious on-court value he brings (and the ability to negotiate with him in-house for an extension / new contract should he be at all interested) why wouldn’t we also value him as an expiring contract, especially if Monte isn’t seeing equal value in any trade offers?
This too is a good point.
Maybe the question is what value is there in large cap space for the Kings? It’s not like an all-star or even fringe all-star is going to come to Sac in free agency. IMO, the only value in an expiring deal like Barnes is the space he might bring by walking and then using that space to acquire someone else’s bad deal that comes with sweeteners like picks or prospects, much like OKC has done with it’s space The problem with that path, is it does’t fit the current Kings mandate to make the playoffs. Letting a talent and valuable contributor like Barnes simply expire is the opposite of what the Kings need to do if they are to make a playoff push.
Another point, I think all parties know he won’t match the previous contract. Why couldn’t the kings sign him to a fair contract extension if things as a team progress well this season? Maybe a similar deal to Holmes around 4/40-48 mil. His game hasn’t really dropped off and he is a player that doesn’t rely on pure athletic talent so it’s not crazy to think he is a valuable wing player through his early 30s
Maybe, but that would take Barnes really wanting to stay in Sac.
For me it just comes down to asset management. Right now and until the deadline, Barnes has about as much value on the market as we will ever have. If Monte doesn’t feel Barnes is apart of the next deep playoff team for the Kings, then move him. His age, game, and contract status makes him valuable to current contenders.
This is your argument, so often, but what are the Kings really losing by holding onto Barnes?
I think you overrate the value Barnes has in trade compared to the idea that losing him for nothing is ‘bad.’ It’s not bad, necessarily.
What do the Kings gain by losing him for nothing? Before you say cap space, what have the Kings done with available cap space over the last 20 years?
What do the Kings gain from trading him? A marginal asset? Yippee.
Again, Nate, what do you gain from letting him walk for nothing?
Sorry, but they gain cap space. Which is just as valuable whether you’re signing some mythical top tier free agent as it is resigning the value players you have on the team already. You don’t think Bones is going to re-sign here for less money, right? And whether or not they can convince someone in the upper echelons to come here, they don’t have much salary cap wiggle room right now to bring in even mid echelon players, cuz of course the Sacramento overpay factor.
Obviously context matters, and the last 20 years, to your point, has not been a very fruitful free agency harvest or the Kings. But suggesting we shit-can free agency when we could theoretically have cap space…. you don’t not have relationships just because some tramp broke your heart after x amount of years together. You pick yourself up, take a hard look in the mirror, maybe address some personal flaws, start looking forward, get back out there and see if you can find, if not an all-star, at least someone you can be an all-star with.
What is your favorite draft day food/drink?
Iced and blended hemlock.
For me, before we pick, too nervous to eat or drink. After we pick, shots of anything and everything until I no longer feel pain.
Chet/Jabari/Paulo are off the board with picks 1-3, and you can’t trade up. Describe your ideal off-season.
What’s the lowest level of player would you accept for the 4 pick? I think Beal is a pipe dream, but Siakam? Grant?
Siakam would be such a good get for the Kings, and would improve the team in a lot of ways. He’s got two years left on his deal, like Sabonis, and I’d expect both to be very motivated.
I think Beal just isn’t someone who can boost the team in the way most needed. As to Grant, I’ve always liked him as a player, but I wouldn’t trade #4 for him, not this year. If Detroit wants to swap picks, and includes Grant or Bey for, say, Holmes or Barnes, that would be the kind of circumstance that I could live with.
Trading Grant for #4 would the worst possible outcome unless the Kings are also getting #5. Even trading Grant & #5 for #4 wouldn’t make me happy. Grant’s overpaid & overrated. I might be fine w/Siakam for #4, but I’m not sure about that.
Ah-Ha!
Can a franchise in the Kings position realistically afford to spend a #4 overall pick on a relative unknown like Shaedon Sharpe?
He better have a helluva workout . Can not miss on this pick !
The basketball gods would be most displeased if we screwed-up again!
You have the #4 pick in a fantasy draft of ALL NBA players ever. Who would you pick at #4?
It depends on who went 1-3.
That’s what makes it interesting. I would think their answer would have that as well.
Oscar Robertson?
I’m guessing Wilt and Jordan are locks for the top 3. Then Baylor? Kareem?
I think Jordan & James would be locks for the top 3, but Idk if Wilt would be a lock for the top 3.
sleeper picks for the 2nd round. Name some.
You know I have a list. But I’ll let others chime in first.
Yup, that was a nice list.
Trevion Williams! Dude is fun as hell!
I also like Jalen Williams, Max Christie, Bryce McGowens, Jean Montero, Christian Braun, Julian Champagnie, Wendell Moore, and EJ Liddell (though I doubt he falls that far)
David Roddy.
he’s my top sleeper pick, but I like several.
A couple new names in there for me to look at. Lidell might be there. He’s a 6’7” center.
7 foot wingspan and projects to be at least a side pocket 3 shooter. He can be a legit NBA 4. I will be very surprised if he does not go in the 1st round.
The Draymond comp gets thrown around quite a lot but for Liddell I think it’s actually spot on. Strong, tenacious, defender with long arms that allows him to play bigger than he is. Can knock down the 3, and has ability to pass out of the post.
Draymond is just such a unique player that I would hesitate to comp prospects to him.
Unique for now, but the league will find more of his archetype, now that he’s shown his value.
Is Koloko worth looking at or are we gonna wait for Queta?
Koloko and Jalen Williams are my two guys outside of a lot of top 30 lists that I think will go in the 1st round.
Queta not-withstanding?
Queta is not a reason to draft or not draft someone.
Comp Jalen Williams to Shadeon Sharpe and tell me who’s a better basketball player today.
Well, the NBA draft is rarely about today. Sharpe is over two years younger than Williams, and so the question is more about who will be a better basketball player in three years. And five years.
This is what scares me about Sharpe. Rookie scale contracts are for only 3 years now. There is no better example of a talented player, not ready yet, than our very own MBIII. That’s what you get drafting for what you think a guy will grow into. Take the guy who is valuable now! That was Luka then, and it’s Griffin now!
I’m suddenly convinced that Jalen is going to jump into the mid-1st. Maybe even late lottery.
I’ve seen Williams in a few top 30 lists.
When it comes to the 2nd round, sure why not? He reminds me a bit of Damian Jones, who is not bad at all. I think BHE has watched a lot of Arizona basketball and can give a good eval.
There’s a lot of hype on Koloko, about which I remain agnostic. I’d be pretty surprised if he’s not picked in round one.
I’ve seen a good amount of Koloko, but Rebuild is our resident expert on him. And a big fan.
I like Marjon Beauchamp, but he prob. won’t fall that far.
same agent as Lebron I think. Possible 3&D player?
Have the Kings drafted anyone in the 2nd round recently that turned into anything?
Ray McCallum was a summer league MVP.
Beyond that, you would have to go back to Isaiah Thomas, Hassan Whiteside (though not with the Kings), and then all the way back to Tyus Edney, Michael Smith, Lawrence Funderburke, Randy Brown and Vinnie Del Negro.
Fun fact: Jabari Smith was a 2nd round pick of the Kings (2000).
If you can’t get the 2nd overall pick correct, it could be difficult picking 2nd rounders
Leonard Miller (but I don’t know if he’ll realistically be there)
I think he’d withdraw from the draft if he’s expected to be a 2nd rounder.
Kirk or Picard?
Depends. Are you trying to score with a green chick or negotiate a treaty with the Sheliak?
For the most part, that stereotype doesn’t fit the show version of Kirk.
Kirk.
Why would any draft prospects workout for the Kings, after seeing Haliburton getting shafted?
I agree that they mis-handled Haliburton. They made sure he never had a chance to compete for ROY.
LaMelo and Edwards made sure that he wasn’t going to win ROY.
And honestly, the Kings were the team that DID draft him. If we’re going to talk about who “shafted” him, let’s talk about all of the teams that passed on him.
I don’t think Davion did a workout, I remember he looked pissed after being selected. But it worked out so let’s shaft away 😀
Davion was so crushed the Kings picked him. Poor bastard.
Those other teams shafted him by letting him fall to Sac, and letting him ride the bench behind…BUDDY HIELD? In hindsight, it’s obvious the Kings had to trade him after completely mishandling him.
I put this out there before, and no one was buying it, so i don’t expect you to now, but the Kings treated him like a #13 overall talent well after it became clear he was worthy of a top 3. Never let him start for the fear of upsetting an overpaid Buddy.
Just 1 more of the myriad reasons Luke Walton was an unmitigated disaster!
Shafted? How, exactly?
Because he went to a bad team? Nah, not an actual factor.
Because he won’t play in Indy? They seem to be building an entire team around him.
Because he loved Sacramento? That’s nice and all, but who gives a shit when you can get an all-star and dump Hield’s contract? They sure shafted him by moving him a couple of thousand miles closer to his family. Young players hate that.
I hope Haliburton does great in Indiana, or wherever. I love the kid, and hated to see him go, but the return was more than fair, addresses a rebounding problem, and clears space among the guards.
I’m pretty certain that the overwhelming cry from posters last winter was, “JUST DO SOMETHING, McNAIR!” He got us an all-star, and dumped some salary.
What exactly did you have in mind? Replies based in the reality that McNair is unable to force trades on other GMs, only, please.
Question is from perspective of these college kids. They may not care about “small market team”, but they know the dysfunction from it’s meddling owner. They would give a shit about the organization shafting them like they did Tyrese and avoid it like the plague. But then again they will get paid millions getting shafted, so who gives a shit.
I’m curious to hear how Haliburton got shafted.
Ok to clarify, in relation to Tyrese article in The Players Tribune, what happened that one day. I am a top 5 pick, I’ve read this article and I get a call to workout with the Kings. The piece is called “Life Goes On”, in the end it’s just business, and perhaps these draft kids will get that.
Sorry Andy, your another Haliburton denier! I told you then your arrogance would cost us the Kings best draft pick…EVER!
Don’t blame me that Bobby Hurley is a bad driver.
ZING!
When will this happen?
AS: You’re fucking Fired, Vivek
VR: No more Shaka?
Only if the Kings lose a lot of $.
Does Neemias Queta effect our draft priorities this year for either the 1st, or 2nd round?
He shouldn’t.
Queta is raw, and there’s no hurry, and therefore, should barely register on the radar as Sacramento considers draftees and free agents.
He’s house money, basically.
I certainly hope not. He isn’t anywhere near the level to factor into FO decisions.
I agree in terms of the first round, but in the second, he may affect a decision on a guy like Koloko. IMO.
Top GM Ranadive (not Asst GM Ranadive Sacramento Kings, Asst GM Ranadive Stockton Kings) claims to have insisted on a “Minnesota like improvement” aka 16 games this season.
Q1:What consequences do you expect to occur when the reality of this statement is not attained?
Q2: Jordi Fernandez is welcomed to the Kings. He has been involved in player development with his last two stops. Do you take this as a sign that improved player development is a new priority?
Q2.1: Will this influence the draft pick choice (the Kings have had awful player development in the Ranadive
errorera and it is my conjecture that is one of the reasons “mature” players have been selected by the other GM, the McNair guy)In 1991 the Kings traded #3 draft pick Billy Owens to GSW for Mitch Richmond. What type of a return could reasonably be expected for this year’s #4 pick?
Again, Mitch Richmond. Though at age 56, he might not help as much…but it might instantly improve the defense.
I appreciate your smartassery, Rob.
Mitch had just completed his 3rd year, still on his rookie deal, and looked every bit to be a future all-star. The closest type of players to that are…Darius Garland or Tyler Herro, maybe RJ Barrett?
Rookie deals didn’t exist in 1991.
I guess this all comes down to is what is the organizations goals and objectives. If it’s just to make the playoffs as soon as possible then make this trade with Utah. Barnes, Holmes, Holiday, this years #4 pick and next years first for Rudy Gobert. That probably sneaks you into the lower end of the playoffs but where do you go from there with no draft picks and cap space after taking on Goberts contract. I prefer a long term strategic plan that gets you to sustainability and championship competitive. Yes that takes longer but you have to have players outplaying their contracts to be successful. Right now Sabonis is the only player outplaying his contract and that will end sometime after October 1st.
Terrible terrible trade for the kings…way to much for gobert
If you read the whole text it’s not something I would do but it would immediately improve the team and I think it’s going to take all of that to snatch someone like Gobert and that’s the dilemma
I say Jaden Ivey could be the next Michael Jordan. To draft him at No. 4 would be incredibly lucky. If I were in charge, I’d pick him. Trade Fox and who ever else to get the great scoring wing Johnny Davis, and then sign Sabonis a long-term contract. Do you think I’m nuts? Or simply an “Oddball?”
I’m not adverse to trading Fox and I like Ivey but the comparison to Jordan is where you lost me.
They do have a lot of similarities. For example: they are both basketball players.
What!?!?!?! We have to get him at all costs then.
Would guys give Mitchell and the 4th for Porter Jr. and the 3rd?
You know…grab Paolo or Chet…
I doubt Houston would make that trade.
Should the Kings trade down with Detroit and draft Keegan Murray at 5th? Give Detroit Holmes and the 4th pick for Bey and the 5th? Do the Pistons want to move up bad enough to make that trade?
So if it’s Ivey, Murray, Sharpe and Griffin that we are choosing from then what past or present player and best/worst outcome player comps would you give for each of 4 prospects. This is my quickest and easiest way to understand these players and I trust your knowledge.
Basically who would they be as busts (their floors) and who might they be like at their ceilings?
Metu and assistant coach Jordi have history together. What does say, if anything, about Metu’s chances of sticking with the Kings?
Prior to Bagley’s rookie season when asked who would be the MVP in the upcoming season, he said himself and was widely mocked for it. Chet Holmgren when asked who is the best player in the NBA said “me, in 2 months” What’s the difference between these statements?
For the most part, the physical appearance of each player.
Jabari Smith and Paolo Banchero are off the board. Who’s your #3 and #4?
Am I wrong for feeling less pessimistic about the Kings this season with the cancer of Luke Walton finally removed. Also, Monte seems to have gained/earned Vivek’s full confidence, Richaun Holmes is clear to concentrate on basketball (trade value?), they didn’t hire Mark Jackson, and we landed a #4 overall pick!
This draft has a lot of guys that has the potential to be great in the NBA, especially in the top 15. Is there any way Monte can get both Sharpe/Ivey and Murray? What would cost the team for them?
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