Welcome back to Chainmail! Before we dive into asking questions, let’s recap the last several days in the Kangzdom, shall we?
- Sacramento Kings owner Vivek Ranadive is rumored to be interesting in bidding for the pro football squad Chelsea F.C.
- After winning two straight to start the Domantas Sabonis era, the Kings have dropped seven of their last nine games, including horrific losses to the undermanned Brooklyn Nets, the undermanned Dallas Mavericks, a 35-point blowout to the New Orleans Pelicans in a pretend-important play-in game, and a crushing defeat by the New York Knicks on Monday evening.
- Although the team is playing quite poorly as of late, the same can’t be said of De’Aaron Fox, at least on the offensive end of the floor. In his eleven games paired with Sabonis, Fox is putting up 27.8 points, 6.2 assists, and 4 boards per game.
- Domantas Sabonis has also been very good in Sacramento, although it’s clear that he’s still finding his footing. The big man is averaging 17.4 points, 12.8 rebounds, and 5.9 assists, but he’s turning the rock over 3.5 times per game.
- Richaun Holmes continues to miss games for a variety of reasons, with last night’s absence being assigned due to personal reasons. After signing the biggest contract of his career in the offseason, and after a hot start to the year, Holmes’ struggles with injuries, role, and things in his personal life have completely derailed his season. Since December 10th, he’s played in just 19 of 41 games, and his numbers have dropped to 7.4 points and 5.1 rebounds per game in that span. It’s been assumed that the Kings will look to move their former starting center in the offseason, but his value will be questionable at best if his season continues on this trajectory.
- The Kings are on pace for 29 wins this season, and their win percentage is worse than their average win percentage over the 16-year playoff drought.
- Sacramento is currently slotted to land in 6th place in the lottery, which would afford them a 37.2% chance at landing in the top-4, according to tankathon. They trail the Indiana Pacers by 1.5 games for 5th, and they lead the seventh place San Antonio Spurs by two full games.
- If the Kings finish the season 15-0, they will tie Dave Joerger’s record of 39 wins. They are 86-125 since letting Joerger go.
Are we at an ironic point in our Kangz Fandom that none of us actually believe they are smart enough to tank but they actually are, which explains forcing Holiday to chuck up several bad 3 pointers in the starting lineup? There’s something hilarious about how this whole post-trade world is playing out. I just hope whatever is being done, that there is a Monte plan behind it
Holiday came to Sac and turned into Buddy – at least on the effective end – although worse.
Assuming a new coach next season, what kind of leash will he(she?) have?
I am guessing they get 1 year of leeway to ingrain their system, then.. playoffs or bust?
Did the Kings trade away their best shot at real roster culture change?
If we could have moved Fox, Barnes, Buddy, Bagley and Holmes and got back Sabonis, kept Haliburton and got some cap space, I’d feel much better about our culture and future. Mitchell, Haliburton, Sabonis with some cap space and draft capital would have been a nice start forward.
I don’t count Sabonis as a viable get without giving up Hali.
I am still talking about changing the culture around Hali, even without Sabonis.
It sure looks like Indy chose to build their culture around Hali. Let’s see where both teams are in 2 years. I have a pretty good feeling where a betting man would put his money.
Calvin Ridley will take the Falcons over the Kings to reach the play-in first.
Like Ridley?
Not certain about that ! Brogden is easily better than Hali and their top player ! Not confident that Hali was ever going to be a top 2 on a winner !
Indy thinks so. They gave up their best player in Sabonis for him.
I’m not sure I follow that. The only way this franchise will turn it around is through a transitional player in the draft. We’ve had a couple of great opportunities in prior drafts and we blew it. The culture changes when you get better players. You can’t just change the culture it’s a product of the roster.
I am saying that Hali appeared to not have the stink of the Kangz culture affect him.
He was the potential top-end talent player to build around, not Fox/Barnes.
They opportunity was to further create a new culture by shipping out Fox, Barnes, Holmes and everyone else with the stink on them. Amass young prospects/draft assets/etc.
They chose a different path. They are building around Fox and Sabonis, who already cost more money, and have a shortened window and limited resources to change the culture around these two. It may work, but it appears to be a more difficult task to me.
Hence my question, was the best opportunity to change the culture tied to keeping Haliburton?
Ok yes, Fully agree with you.
Most loved over rated player since K Mart !
You talking about Fox? 😉
I prefer a generational player
That’s probably a better term.
No Change at the top = NO CHANGE! The stink is on anyone and everyone that has been here 3 years or more. No single player is changing that. The old saying “a stopped clock is right twice a day” applies to the Kings. They are accidentally right now and then, but then back to being wrong quickly after that.
SIDENOTE I would love to think otherwise but, is it possible Luka would have pulled a Zion/Simmons and found a way to not be a part of the disfunction? 50 /50 why Vlade did not draft him. Just like Kobe and Charlotte draft me and I will wait it out. Culture is Vivek on down, no question.
So let me ask a question for those who have been proponents of the Sabonis-Haliburton trade and advocating the win now lane. How many wins do the Kings need to get from now until the end of next season for McNair to keep his job? Just what are the expectations.
At the trade deadline, at a minimum I would have moved Barnes and Holmes and Buddy for as much draft capital and cap space as possible. Lastly, if we don’t resign Sabonis or trade him for something better than Haliburton that trade becomes another disaster in Kings history.
I think the expectations have been transferred to next season, and that is also the official word from Monte.
Next season we’ll hear (several times!) that it is a new coach, a new system, a largely different roster and it takes time to gel! The optimists will wait for that to happen, the pessimists will reckon that it will be another bad season and a tense all or nothing offseason in preparation for Sabonis’ final contract year.
That’s a good synopsis. I want a win number goal from management. They apparently said they are not rebuilding so then what are the win number expectations.
And that leads us to our next question:
Did the Kangz break Sabonis in record time?
I mean, getting his first frustration ejection of his career in less than 20 games with Sacramento is pretty impressive!
He’s not used to how the refs treat Kings players. He ought to be frustrated.
If I was Fox, I’d have killed someone by now. He’s the most disrespected player in the league by the referees.
And by the national media!!!
Yep. Better teams – teams that are consistent in their approach and execution – get more calls than inconsistent teams. It has always been that way.
Fox is 14th in the league in FTAs per game, 4th among PGs. He comes in between KAT and LeBron on the overall list. I think that he gets a fair amount of calls when you factor in the league numbers.
I wouldn’t bother arguing stats, but I’d say that regardless of them, he’s still not getting at least 2-3 calls a game when he gets hacked.
We’re all susceptible to homerism, but I’d imagine that someone with editing skills and too much time on their hands could pull together fifty examples of non-calls on Fox, without needing to search all that far back into his career.
WE CANNOT LET THE LEAGUE DESTROY HIM.
Sabonis is shooting significantly fewer free throws per game with Sac than he did with the Pacers. Could be other reasons for that, but when you’re a bad team you don’t get calls. NBA officiating stinks, and this is not news. It’s also not why this team is bad. But there’s some data to support Andy’s argument here.
As one of the people transferring expectations to next season, I will say that I am not budging any further. This offseason, he needs to find a competent head coach, and make the additional moves to make the roster fit together with Fox-Sabonis as the foundational pieces. One full offseason of training, plus a half season of putting it into practice, I will likely be ready to render my verdict on whether Monte should keep his job or not by next year’s all-star break. There can be no more adjusting the goalposts after that imo. If the team does not look like it’s on pace to make the playoffs by this time next year, it’s off with his head.
Agreed. Change needs to really happen this offseason.
I think I fall in a similar lane. Fans of this team are constantly conflating what they would do with the people involved. I would have tanked and stripped down to the studs leaving just Tyrese. I question if the Domas trade will work. But I also think we have an owner who is irrational and top down decides near every major decision. Monte might not be great but I think it’s clear he is in part navigating a land field to contemporary franchise standards and what is asked of him on a daily basis.
He might deserve to be let go in a years time regardless but for years G-League scouting, having well balanced books at least drafting interesting upside plays in the 2nd (if they work or not) would have been incredulous. Overarching I disagree with the decision that will define his tenure, but I also think of Vivek and I think he mustered out something that at least could work. The same cannot be said from the Rudy Gay acquisition, the Thompson salary dump, The offseason of high mid levels to buoy a postseason run or the Bagley pick. All those had worse rationale. The team appears as an NBA franchise, a bad one but regardless a big step.
If Monte though is indeed on a tightrope he would be wise to see the opportunity of the last handful of games. If our pick is traded or a selection the higher it is gives us better odds for difference either way. That pick will be the leverage of significantly adding to Fox and Domas or not. He might not believe his job is secure enough to do so but with the play in gone I would argue what other choice does he have. The Kings have to tank.
I don’t think that I am one of those proponents, but since it is up to ownership and not us to determine McNair’s employment status, I would hazard a guess that the Kings need to reach at least 40 wins next year for McNair to get another year, and they would need to be in the upper 40s for wins in 2023-24.
I think that’s a fair expectation.
I’d agree these are the benchmarks.
These numbers should go up if Vivek buys Chelsea. It should reduce Meddling by 50% with him meddling across 2 continents.
Can the failing culture of this organization be changed?
I don’t think changing the roster changes the culture of the organization.
Winning changes the culture not the other way around ! Memphis and Cleveland now have great cultures . Indiana, S Antonio used too and with all owner issues it appears the Suns have a wonderful culture ! Kings just need a Ja Morant and culture change and maybe Coach Taylor .
So true and you win with good players.
Oh, good players!
If you write a book, I’ll buy it.
Will you keep the receipt?
Definitely, as I suspect that I’d be likely to return it.
Good idea.
You should read something it might help but then again you know a lot more than all these NBA coaches who have devoting a lifetime to the game.
Even if I had any idea of which comment I’ve made suggesting that I know better than “all these NBA coaches,” this would still seem like a non-sequitur.
I mean, fire away, but let’s try to stay in the same area code as the topic.
I think he’s trying to hurt your feelings Sims. Little does he know you don’t have many to offend.
I just don’t want to see the little fella get discouraged.
I think I’ve played the game a little more than you and I’m much bigger. Don’t be discouraged however.
Yeah its game that we are all worried about, not a dysfunctional organization. There is really no excuse with 16 seasons missing the playoffs. If we got sent down a league for losing record over 3 years we would be contracted due to ownership failure. So if you have any Pat Riley Tony Robbins corporate self help rah rah books, please forward them to Vivek and Co ASAP.
It is best to take special care with the children.
Up until recently actual NBA talent was not a pre-requisite for being on the roster.
I agree but….this organization has not promoted winning and actually taken obvious steps away from winning without knowing it.
Is winning possible with this culture? I don’t see it. I think the team is finally pursuing actual NBA talent but they don’t know what to do with it.
If you consider the post-trade deadline games as a preview of the ’22-’23 core roster, what are the key concerns that should be addressed this off-season (besides the coaching search and filling the 4 role)?
The team is at best a 9-10 seed. A healthy WC: Dubs, Jazz, Dallas, Grizz, Wolves, Denver, Clips, Suns are all unequivocally better. Kings can only hope to get super lucky in the draft. Hope that a package of Fox and something else will get you a real Number 1. The 4 role will be filled by another role player. Kings don’t have the assets to get an impact player at 4.
It is likely that no impact players will be in the top 4 !
you are saying its a 0 impact draft class?
It is? You’ve got insight that many who have watched these guys since 8th grade don’t have.
3 point shooting is a major problem for this team, who are some realistic options to fix that via FA/Trade/Draft?
Assuming we keep Mitchell, Fox, DDV, TD, Barnes, Metu, Sabonis, Jones, and Queta.
In FA (or RFA in the case of several of the players below), I would attempt to sign at least one of the following as none would require massive contracts but could still start. We would have to clear some room still by moving combinations of Holmes, Len, Harkless, Lyles, and Holiday.
Bigs
M. Bamba (rim protecting stretch-5, career 33.3% 3PA)
C. Boucher (rim protecting stretch-4, career 33.8% 3PA)
Wings (all can play SF)
L. Walker IV (undersized and inconsistent, but only 23, career 34.4% 3PA)
J. Tate (already 26 but only in 2nd yr, career 30.3% 3PA)
L. Dort (best defender in the bunch, career 33.3% 3PA)
Caleb Martin (doubt he’ll be available, best 3pt shooter of the bunch, career 35.1% 3PA)
Cody Martin (twin to the above, shooting 41% from 3 this year, career 32.7% 3PA)
These are some interesting names. I’d add Nic Claxton, Oshae Brissett, and Patrick Williams.
Derrick Jones Jr also.
I forgot the most important question: Who is responsible for the disappearance of the fan prediction score link? We need justice to be served.
How does one tame DDV? I love his energy and defensive-minded mentality, but how do we reign in the Buddy-like 3’s and out-of-control moments?
He definitely has some mistake tendencies arising from wild play.
Like I said the other day, there is a lot of Omri Casspi to his game.
I’m not sure “a lot” is accurate, given that DD is a good defender, and Casspi, let’s just say, was not.
I didn’t watch him play, was he like this in Milwaukee? I can’t imagine that team culture allowed that.
DDV went 3-6 last night, not exactly terrible.
Buddy Hield has gone 7-29 (24%) in his last 3 games with 9 TOs and 3 Stls. DDV is 8-18 (44%, on acceptable volume) with 5 TOs and 5 Stls in the last 3 games. In terms of control, I feel like DDV is miles above one Buddy Hield.
Can’t argue with those sample sizes! 😮
Guy says “DDV is out of control” after going 3-6.
Insert incredulous emoji…
Getting rid of Buddy Hield was the very definition of addition by subtraction.
In that Sabonis would have been impossible to get without Hield, very much so.
Rank the following reasons for the Kings’ post-trade Kangziness, in order of likelihood:
That’s easy. 100 percent lack of roster talent.
This team has 3 quality starting players in Fox, Sabonis, and Barnes, 3 quality rotation players in Davion, DDV, and Holmes, and then a whole bunch of spare parts. That’s not gonna cut it in this league.
However, it really can’t be overstated how bad Gentry and Rico Hines have consistently proven to be as coaches. I’ll let Christie slide for now since he hasn’t even finished a single season as an assistant.
It’s a toss up between talent and coaching for the No. 1 spot, but maybe it really all comes down to the simple fact we live in basketball hell.
Now it’s Gentry and Rico Hines. Do you really feel you have the knowledge and qualifications to make those kind of assertions. Do you really have a clue what Rico Hines does and doesn’t do. Gentry hasn’t been able to do what 11 other coaches also haven’t been able to do and that’s to produce a winning record. Could it possibly be the players and more importantly those responsible for putting those players on the roster.
Dude looks like he’s just there to mingle with the players
Well I’ve always wondered what all those people are doing around the bench. I don’t know what Rico Hines does or doesn’t do but I’m not about to cast blame on him. My god the roster simply isn’t good regarding NBA standards. I don’t think there are 5 worse rosters than the Kings and as someone else stated when you consider cap space and draft capital I don’t know a franchise in worse shape. Having said that, one wild lucky roll of the draft ball could significantly change things. Add Jabari Smith to this roster and things get much better in a hurry.
How certain are you of that ? I talked to a scout from GS that said he will be another Otto Porter .
Nothing is certain. I’ve seen him play a lot and I think he and Ivey will be the most impactful players. You are however correct, nobody know for sure.
Otto Porter Jr. was pretty damn good before all of his injuries.
Someone made a Rashard Lewis comparison and I thought that was pretty spot on. FWIW I think Banchero and Ivey are the only 2 players in this draft that could end up being real stars, but Holmgren and Smith are safer prospects that fit with the Kings roster better.
Absolutely the front office, lack of talent and a lack of planning over what is needed. What is the opposite of 3d chess? Roulette maybe, except ownership always bets green. no sustainable winning. The thing is we all posit that Vivek is an Idiot, I doubt that. Maybe he wants to tread water till he finds a buyer to take this team. What is the lease term? What is the declining cost of breaking it? And while he waits for it to pencil out he can sit next to a Celeb or 2. No other reason to be soo cheap in all the things there is no cap/floor on.
I thought you meant Vivek…
The first thing I said was the team lacks talent. As for Gentry and Hines, they’ve literally only ever coached losing teams. Meanwhile, I saw Dave Joerger (a good, not great coach) take an even more mediocre roster near playoff contention.
Between the poor rotations, dependency on Fox isos and Domas improvisation during crucial moments, and constant losing, do you really not think coaching factors in here somehow?
Gentry coached the Suns to the WCF in 2010 and the Pels to the WCF most recently in 2018. He’s no Phil Jackson, but neither is he a Sidney Lowe quality coach.
Hines is a shooting coach. Blame him for Tyrese’s ridiculous midrange game right now…
Fair enough. Still doesn’t make me feel any more confident in what I’ve seen of them steering the ship.
I don’t disagree there. I like Gentry and I think players love him. But I’d rather see a little more balance between the free-range style he employs and a little more hands on / real-time accountability approach. I don’t see how Gentry keeps the gig after the season, regardless…
Are you sure your accurately assessing the problem. What’s different about Gentry now than when he had winning teams. Did he suddenly forget how to coach. I’ll give you the answer. It’s the roster. The same with Kerr who didn’t win either with an inferior roster. Look this coaching crap that non qualified people keep bringing up over and over and as each day passes and every time a coaching change is made these doe doe fans become more wrong. Focus where the real problem is and that’s front office management. They are the ones responsible for getting the players. Gentry is an honorable and decent man doing his best and he’s had previous success when given a competent roster. Unfortunate for him, now and in his past he hasn’t exactly been handed a dynasty.
He is neither cause nor cure.
By the way, he has only made the playoffs three of the fourteen seasons in which he has coached 50+ games, and two for eight over his 82 game seasons. To your point, some of that may be the hands that he has been dealt. But in a league where 53% of the coaches make the playoffs each year, his career performance has been more Kangz-like than median-like.
Please you’re too smart to buy into this coaching BS. Also, these bloggers just don’t have all the facts to properly evaluate. I mean you could change the coach but it’s about 15 on the list of priorities. When teams lose people start digging for answers in areas they shouldn’t touch.
I guess you must have missed the first paragraph.
No I saw it but you should know better than to draw a conclusion about his career performance. Gentry is a good capable man with an impossible task. Has Popovich suddenly forgot how to coach. He’s had two losing seasons in a row. Take a look at the OKC coach. He’s had two awful seasons record wise, do you really think he can’t coach. 12 coaching changes and no appreciable change in performance and we’re still blaming coaches.
The numbers are the numbers. Draw your own conclusions.
Alvin Gentry is not the problem. Historically he has not been the cure, either. He is a pedestrian NBA head coach at best, as most of them are. Seems like a nice guy, and getting paid well to coach this shitshow.
That said, if the Kings ever get a better roster, I hope that they hire a coach with a better track record of success than Alvin Gentry.
You call them pedestrian. I call them well qualified individuals who have dedicated their lives to the game. The marginal difference between them is probably quite small and very difficult to measure. Watch UC Davis tonight in the Big West tournament. They have a player I coached for a couple of years who will probably be all Big West. For awhile I was hoping he’d be Big West player of the year but the team dropped off and lost a few games to Covid. The team is 7th in the Big West. When I’m at the games I hear dumbbell fans constantly criticizing this coach (Jim Les) a former NBA player. My ex player tells me often what a good coach he is so when I hear these fans talking out of their rear, I just can’t take it. Some of this just reminds of that. They simply don’t know. I should just let it go.
The tale of the tape is whether or not they win games. That is the nature of the beast in the NBA. It is why Justin Jackson can simultaneously be one of the best basketball players in the world (and a really nice guy) and still not be a minutes-earning NBA player.
By every metric, Alvin Gentry has come in below the median. Whether it is w-l record or trips to the playoffs. If you want to blame that on the gigs that he has landed, fine. But maybe there is also a reason that he gets offered those gigs and not the prime ones. I don’t know the answer. I just know the results. And him being a nice or honorable or hard working gentleman really doesn’t factor into the equation. It is a results-driven league, and the results speak for themselves right now. And to be clear, no one forced Alvin Gentry to take this job. He accepted it with free will, and fair or not, he wears the results as the head coach
It is my opinion that Erik Spoelstra would extract more wins from this roster than Alvin Gentry. But Erik Spoelstra ain’t coming through that door. Beyond that, I think that the overwhelming majority of NBA head coaches don’t make that much of a difference.
And to your point, had the front office jettisoned Walton in the off-season and given the new head coach (be it Gentry or someone else) the pre-season to install his offensive and defensive philosophies, it would have a better chance of success than making the change during the season, when practice time is at a premium and wholesale changes are almost impossible to pull off.
Yeah, changing the head coach and nothing else accomplishes nothing. That does not mean that changing the coaching staff to better align with next year’s roster is the wrong thing to do, especially as it pertains to the defensive end of the floor.
Your comments below and I agree. My advice. Don’t be that dopey fan screaming at the coach from the stands. I’d probably be a little more diplomatic if I wasn’t in self imposed quarantine because I tested positive twice for Covid even though I have no symptoms. Tomorrow I’m free to play golf.
Beyond that, I think that the overwhelming majority of NBA head coaches don’t make that much of a difference.
Spoelsra ain’t coming through the door.
Good question. I think the way the NBA is now it’s a players league and the coaches make very little difference. Now if you we are comparing an NBA coach to a middle school coach then yes coaching makes a difference. By the time these guys get to the NBA and considering the way the game is played, there’s little difference. I also think when we keep harping on these coaches we miss the real problem. Vlade set the franchise back a decade and McNair has drawn a tough task but no tougher than some others have had and been successful.
Lastly, Hessing makes a decent point about the gigs the coaches get. Also some of these high profile coaching names are able to better attract free agents. Putting that aside, once you give these guys a roster, the results from one coach to another are negligible. In the Kings case, because of the futile rosters, it’s very unlikely we are going to get a big name winner although we did get George Karl who had previous success and he also failed. It won’t be a coach that prevents the Kings from reaching credibility it will be a roster and the GM that created that roster. Just look at the massive fluctuation in Kerrs record the last few years. It’s all roster driven and I think Kerr is a hell of a coach.
Watch money ball and how the media ran with Art Howe being the reason for the success the A’s were having. It was ultimately proven Howe and nothing to do with it. Also with all these advanced stats we have now much of the coaching to driven by them and rightfully so.
Go UC Davis tonight.
Are you saying coaching doesn’t matter, only roster? Are you saying Popovich and Gentry are equals, but simply separated by circumstance?
And if that’s not what you’re saying and you do believe there is a difference between Pop and Gentry, then what is it, and how do you evaluate it?
Genuinely trying to understand what your point is here…
Wait, he’s made the playoffs 21% of the time??? Sounds like an upgrade! Forever contract incoming!
Kerr was the same coach during the 73 and 15 win seasons ! Popovich had a 21 win season and Riley a 17 win season ! Seems talent is very important as is lack of it !
Actually,
look at his complete body of work.
17 Seasons as a Head coach
Detroit, Clips, Suns and Pels
3 total playoff appearances
He’s actually quite awful
His rosters have been quite awful. The few times he’s had a decent roster he’s won. If you have something specific that’s happening on the court that’s a product of coaching let’s hear it but I doubt you know what your talking about.
Really? Let’s see. He has coached 3 teams 5 years or more each. He’s had one winning season in each coaching gig. 1. You can defend his coaching. I’ll stick to facts. Tons of coaches have done more with less. His record speaks for itself. Exactly 1 playoff appearance with a the Pels, 1 playoff appearance with the Suns and one playoff appearance with the Pistons.
That’s it. You are judged in your career by your body of work. Maybe, you should petition for his extension.
In 2017-2018 his Pelican team was 48-34. They went on to sweep Portland 4-0 who had a better regular season record. They then lost to the Warriors 4-1. Did he suddenly forget to coach after that season. Of course not he lost Cousins then Anthony Davis. He also had 3 other winning seasons and a 500 seasons with teams not exactly loaded with hall of famers. Lastly you should read the dialogue a little better and you will see those who know a little reach the same general conclusion that the difference between most NBA coaches including Gentry is quite small and probably nonexistent.
I’m watching St. Mary’s and Gonzaga right now and the general fan would think Mark Few is a much better coach than Randy Bennett. Just look at their records. Those who really know better, the difference in their records is largely or entirely because of the players they had but believe me and talk to any college coach and analyst and they will tell you Randy. Bennett is every bit as good. So looking at records in a vacuum is a fool’s analysis. Maybe Gentry got rehired multiple times because people who know what they are talking about understood the challenges he faced with many of the rosters he had.
Go UC Davis
I forgot to add, you might check your facts before you spout off. The only team he coached for 5 years or more was the Pelicans but nice try. Your judged by how accurate your facts are.
And how well you use grammar?
You’re and your are easy to mistake when quickly writing down thoughts. Of course you’re means you are. Your means belonging to you and your is a possessive determiner.
You’re kind of wise ass for a little guy.
It’s not the size of your wise ass that matters – it’s what you do with it.
I’m going to forever refer to this as the great Yogi214 wiseass affair of ’22. Sorry.
I believe he coached the Suns and Pels 5 seasons. I was just going by the NBA reference. Maybe, its incorrect. I apologize. Gentry was not head coach of the Pistons for 5 years. On that note, i still think he’s a terrible coach. My opinion based on the simple metric of results. Nice guy, great assistant, and has fantastic knowledge of the game. Those qualities don’t always align with being a consistently good head coach. Having a few seasons, 3 playoff appearances( 21% of his career) of success does not mean you’re a good coach.
No he didn’t coach the Suns 5 years but he did make it to the WCF losing to San Antonio 4 games to 2. You might compare those rosters and realize the Suns didn’t have what San Antonio had but still were very competitive.
The Suns lost to the Lakers in the WCF in 2010. It’s a true story. Look it up.
My advice. Don’t be that dopey guy that talks down to other people in the comment section.
My advice. Stay out of other’s debates and get all your facts before intruding. It will help with your mental health. Have a nice day.
Who needs facts for polite discourse?
My mental health is fine. I’m Dutch.
You guys make Guiness and Proper#12 , right? That would improve anyone’s mental health amirite?
I love that, should I choose to participate, I’ll be the pleasant one.
I don’t get the Hines hate at all, he’s a developmental coach. He works with some of the best players across the league in the off-season, not his fault for who the Kings roster during the season.
Hines is a great asset. He’s worked with some of the best players in the league.
100% agree !
Does Holbroc reside in Basketball Hell wearing a Quincy Douby jersey? Inquiring minds must know!
Q: Let’s say Vivek gets the winning bid for Chelsea F.C. Do you think there’s any chance of him selling the Kings if that happens, or do you see him as someone who wants to own as much as possible simultaneously?
Part of me wonders if part of any Vivek’s pitch for Chelsea has to be his Indian background. He’d be appealing to the Premier League as much as he is to the NBA for his ties to India. There is a very large British-Indian population in the UK that may welcome him. I’m not familiar with Premier ownership structure, but do they vote on new ownership like the NBA or are they more independent?
Still, if he were to make a serious offer at Chelsea while remaining owner of the Kings, then he is a lot more wealthy and powerful than I could have imagined.
As far as I know, only the current ownership of Chelsea can decide on a new owner, not the other owners. The FA may block it if there are heavy-weighing grounds to do so (the FA board is not isntalled by the owners). But I’m no expert.
One of his kids will probably take over as the leading voice for Kings ownership while Vivek ruins some Soccer team that I don’t care about. That would be so Kangz.
Well, it sounds reasonable to me, who knows nothing at all about the subject.
We’re all pretty familiar with Vivek mucking things up though.
Just wait till Soccer 3.0!
If Vivek wants a soccer team so bad, why the hell isn’t he just stepping up to bring the Republic to MLS after the Burkle debacle (deBurkle)?
I’m not sure the people who live in Sacramento would tolerate the endless failure of two professional sports franchises.
By the same owner…
The Republic isn’t on nearly as large a stage as Chelsea and that’s what Vivek craves.
True.
But let’s be real, the Kings are just a front for big real estate in Sac. Why not save the Republic, save their stadium plan, and get almost carte blanche development of the Railyards?
Winning, sportsmanship, entertainment, none of that means jack for these billionaires’ investment portfolios. Just out to suck every last drop of value from the poors, the land, and the government.
I am no Vivek apologist, but I just don’t see why he would have an obligation to bring soccer to Sac. over pursuing another opportunity.
Does Barnes make sense on this roster? I love his consistency, work ethic, and attitude. However, he’s best as a stretch 4 in my opinion, but him and Sabonis don’t make a viable defensive frontcourt. Fox and Sabonis aren’t going anywhere, so what about our third best player?
Is Barnes your SF moving forward? Or is he Monte’s best trade chip? And if you’re going to move Barnes, what are you in the market for to make this roster work together?
Barnes literally makes sense on any roster.
This is probably true, which I guess shows that the latter questions are more relevant.
We need to find two more Barnes-type players to fill out the starting lineup.
I’m fine with keeping Barnes, it’s just if that’s your plan then you need two GREAT – not good, not passable, GREAT -defenders to play at the 2 and 4 spots. Having two more Barnes clones will not work defensively if Sabonis and Fox are your bookends, and Monte has already hitched his wagon to them both.
In my ideal world, we have Tyrese at the point, 3 Barnes, and Myles Turner/Rudy Gobert protecting the rim. But we don’t live in that world. My big Q is how we’re going to make it work when we need to accommodate for Fox and Sabonis’ deficiencies.
I agree about the defense. I would move to sign Lu Dort (OKC) and Chris Boucher (TOR) during FA as I think they’ll get reasonable contracts and they could protect the players they would be starting next to. Dort is a decent CnS 3pt shooter and cutter; he would defensively take the best offensive guard or wing allowing Fox to take the other. Boucher provides excellent help D and is good defending away from the basket while also being capable of spacing the floor on offense allowing Domas to do his thing. Mo Bamba is an option too, but would that mean that Sabonis moves back to the 4? Maybe depending on the matchup it would work, but I would prefer Boucher.
In a perfect world, we move Holmes (hopefully to a contender), Len, Lyles, Harkless and Holiday in way that brings back nothing but picks or draft position. Then sign Dort, Boucher, and one of Lonnie Walker or the Martin twins for wing depth.
Chelsea under Vivek:
Welcome to soccer hell!
*Football hell 😉
What if we got anal probed by aliens? Would it be okay to then punch said aliens in the face with brass knuckles? What if these same aliens had a necklace around Vivek Ranadive’s neck and they are the cause of ‘Basketball Hell’ every time they push the button? What if the aliens wore shoes and made Jordan fly? It’s gotta be the shoes, right? What if…and this is a hypothetical ‘mind you’…the aliens anal probed you, you punched them in the face with brass knuckles, they activated Vivek’s mind control necklace, which opened a time warp to the EC 1st round playoff series between the Boston HOF front line vs Chicago Airness’ and Jordan got sucked into the space time continuum at 88 MPH and basketball hell came with him?
I don’t have a question.
I grabbed a picture of Nate’s livestream during his Analiens podcast.
I hope you made this caption Spackler.
My buddy got abducted once, it was his reason for being late to work.
He said he didn’t think the probing was for science though.
I asked why?
He said they had a cigarette afterwards!
Why did I ask….pfffft
It’s not the size of the anal probe in the fight, you see.
It’s the size of the doobie you smoke afterwards with your bug eyed abductors afterward.
With respect to tank season being in full effect and the Kings annual post-season competition on the horizon (the NBA Draft), is Chet Holmgren the type of player that would be an ideal frontcourt partner for Domas Sabonis?
I think he would be great with Sabonis
how about Mike Holmgren? He might be a bit old but I bet he could throw that bulk around under the basket and clear out some space
If given the hypothetical opportunity, and excluding geographical locations, would you swap everything with the Indiana Pacers right now? That includes full rosters with current contracts, head coach, and draft capital?
I don’t think there’s a team in the league in a worse position than the Kings when it comes to roster talent, draft capital and coach. I’d swap places with every team in the league.
This was only exacerbated by the short sighted Hali/Sabonis trade. I’m glad I stopped watching this team last year because I don’t see a winning basketball team in sight for years to come barring total loterry luck. And we know even with lottery luck, the moron leading this franchise will find a way to F it up.
Well, the coach won’t be staying, the team has all of it’s first-round picks, and the talent level of the roster has been improved, and positionally-balanced. It ain’t great, but I’d think that there are some that are worse.
You’d know this if you hadn’t stopped watching games last year.
Yes.
Maybe a better question is which of the other 29 teams would you NOT want to swap everything with right now. I’m sure there are a couple, but there really isn’t an obvious one.
Lakers and Magic come to mind.
The Lakers at least have LBJ and Davis. They could trade one of them for quite an asset haul if they wanted to, but yeah, that’s a sticky situation.
The Magic have a nice young core in Anthony, Wagner, Suggs, Issac, Bamba and Carter Jr. That’s lots of cheap young pieces with a very clean cap sheet. They also have 2 first rounders coming in from Chicago and Denver in the coming years.
I was going off the original question of swapping everything with another team. I wouldn’t take the Lakers’ asset situation, and for as much earned grief as he gets, I’d still take Vivek over the Buss brain(less)trust and 100% over the DeVos clan.
Solid point on the ownership group. I want nothing to do with DeVos charlatans.
If your basketball organization is still including Earvin Johnson in its strategy meetings, I would back away from that as quickly as possible.
I read Kobe was involved as well. It’s not unique to just Magic is my point.
Vivek, baby, go on honey. Buy the futbol team. You deserve it.
Also about that pesky little basketball club in Norcal, a rich powerful European Soccer genius wouldn’t be interested in that now would he?
SELL. THE. TEAM.
There’s an old joke about Heaven and Hell:
If you had to describe NBA Heaven and Hell in a similar manner picking a city, owner, GM, coach, superstar, and supporting cast (with only one from each franchise, no double dipping), what would your NBA Heaven and Hell look like?
Hell is Vivek, Divac, Matina, Dumars. Dumars, Matina, Divac, Vivek
repeat 100x
I heard it a different way but either works.
In heaven the:
British would be the police
French would be the cooks
Swiss would be the organizers
Germans would be the mechanics
Italians would be the lovers
In Hell the:
British would be the cooks
French would be the mechanics
Swiss would be the lovers
Germans would be the police
Italians would be the organizers
What do you think the trade market for Fox looks like this summer, and what reasonable pieces could he net in return?
He just doesn’t seem like a leader to get a team over the hump, and has zero interest in actually playing good defense. He appears like a fair weather player.
What would a player who’s played his entire career in Sacramento know about fair weather?
If this current roster including Terrence Davis had been together all year, what might the w-l be and could they have been the 8th seed?
8rh seed in the PAC 12 maybe !
Boooooooo!!!
Would you trade the Kings for the A’s?
If this includes the A’s being in Sac. for at least the next 25 years, absolutely. And that’s coming from a Giants fan.
No. They belong in Oakland IMO.
I agree with the sentiment, Nate. Sac. would be the alternative to (say) Vegas for me. But I would love for Oakland to figure out a way to keep the A’s where they belong.
And they are on the way to doing just that Rob.
Fingers crossed.
The EIR already got approved by the OCC. So that major hurdle is complete. Still plenty of work to be done though.
I’m not even a baseball fan but I would say yes, at least we’d experience the playoffs.
Yes. Their front office is basically MacGyver. They’ve built supersonic jets out of duct tape and used beer cans over and over. They build winners, run the organization on couch change, tear down and then build another winner, rinse, repeat. It’s amazing. Also a Giants fan.
A’s: “That player is becoming a superstar, TRADE HIM HOW before we lose him.”
Kings: “That player is becoming a superstar, let’s keep him until his contract expires.”
Yet, A’s fans roundly resent this. We are tired of seeing our homegrown stars always traded.
I wonder if we could trade The Kings front office for the A’s front office?
Asking for a friend.
Can they play defense?
Ask the Matt’s.
I don`t believe the soccer team purchase story. It was reported he wouldn’t fire Luke in the off season cause of money problems. Something doesn’t smell right. Like a lot of Vivec stuff.
There’s a difference in being responsible to a group of investors, and Ranadive’s net worth, which is enormous.
Is Vivek actually responsible to a group of investors? The scuttlebutt seems to be that he’s basically impossible to push out. In my expert opinion as a dude who cuts grass for a living, Vivek’s biggest contribution to the Kings net worth is waiting. It’s not like the Kings could be reasonably said to outpace other teams in terms of value, and certainly not in terms of success.
Well, he’s the plurality owner, so theoretically, he could be pushed/bought out by a coalition within the group, but I doubt that he filled out the owners’ suite with people who would hang him out to dry.
And as to the investment itself, I’d be surprised to learn that is hasn’t increased in value at least 50% since it was purchased, and possibly much more. Besides, it’s not about the dividends, it’s about being able to tell college girls that you own an NBA team.
He is the 4th richest among King owners ! Several are legit billionaires but he is not ! Just put the group together and why he is the managing general partner !
I have no real idea where he ranks in the group in regard to net worth, but Ranadive is most certainly a billionaire, and likely a multiple one.
I feel like this “core” could benefit from some derivation of the Princeton style offense. Is there a coach out there who utilizes such witchcraft these days?
The great Pete Carril now 91 years young actually was an assistant coach for the Kings in the late 90’s early 2000’s.
What is a realistic return for Holmes in the offseason, and which teams do you think will be interested?
If an enthusiastic fan were to yell “Let’s Go!” to the Kings players at the next home game, would it be interpreted as a call to win or a call to lose?
Yes
Clogged Pipe Dreams: what in the world would entice any coach – be they up and coming prospect or now available established solid candidate – to accept being under the auspices of Vivek, Aneel and Matina? If you are a hot shot Assistant Coach ready to start a multi-decade career as a bonafide NBA HC why gamble on Sacramento and this roster? This gig comes with an ominous track record and a sullied and sullen history of shattering attractive candidates young and old.
Part 2:
Which agent wants their draft prospect to work out for Vivek’s Kings? Which off-season get is to be gotten? Puh-leez.
As long as that ownership is in place, nothing changes. As for Chelsea, snowball’s chance in futbol Hades.
The next step for the Kings is nailing their draft pick & signing/trading for a veteran in the Harrison Barnes or better range to round out a solid starting five.
Who is our target in the draft? Who is our big target in FA/offseason trade?
Bobby Portis, Malik Monk as FA or sign and trade ! Trade pick for proven young player under 25 for fit like Wendell Carter ! 8th or. bust !
Monk could bring the three ball, but would you really rather have him than DDV? DDV at least plays defense.
When do you believe the Kings will make the playoffs? Is it possible to make the playoffs while Vivek Ranadive owns the team?
2023 baby!!!!!
I want it to be true! Now that I’ve got a kid, I’d love to take him to a playoff game at some point in his life.
Cheapest quickest option buy 2 plane tickets to anywhere but here.
What player drafted by the Kings are you most shocked has had an NBA career of, say, 5 or more years based on performance during his Kings tenure? Ben McLemore? Nik Stauskas? Jimmer? WCS? Other?
Q: If the Kings fail to make the playoffs next year as well, and now that Domas would’ve experienced basketball hell for over a year, what would you put the odds of resigning him when his contract is up? As someone else noted, he’s already been ejected for the first time in his career with the Kings so does that frustration build up enough at that point?
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