Welcome back to Chainmail! This week, we’ve brought in the nerds and the birds (Bryant, you’re a bird now. That’s the rhyme that came into my head when I was trying to think of something that rhymed with nerds) to talk about Sacramento’s draft possibilities, trade ideas, and much, much more! Let’s dive right in!
From jwalker1395:
People you can draft at #9: Wagner, Moody, Jalen J, Keon J, Giddey, Kispert, Garuba, Jones
People you can draft at #20 or later: Prkacin, Duarte, Brown, Ziaire, Dosunmu, Thomas, Jackson
Is there enough difference between these tiers of players to justify not trading the pick? Seems to me the #9 pick just comes with a higher price tag/risk, but not a lot more assurance or even potential (unless a top guy drops).
Tim: Outside of De’Aaron Fox and (probably) Tyrese Haliburton, the Kings are bereft of high-end talent, or even high-end starters. The higher up they are in the lottery, the better statistical chance they retain of finding high-end talent. If this was a team that had multiple, established young stars, alongside solid, young rotational pieces, moving back may make sense. The Kings aren’t there yet. They need to stay where they’re at, trade for an established star, or even move up.
Will: Call this being triggered by Vlade’s draft antics, but with the Kings trying to make the playoffs for the fifteenth year in a row, I’m not trying to get cute or clever and trading back for two guys instead of one. Sure it’s a sunk cost fallacy and yes, I do believe the current management of the Kings is better suited for that kind of maneuver. If the Kings are determined to add meaningful talent, I’d even understand them attaching Buddy or Bagley or a future pick to move UP this draft. I’m not necessarily advocating for it, but I would certainly understand the attempt.
Bryant: I love William and agree with everything he said. I think there is enough difference. To me, Moody, Wagner, and Jalen Johnson are all very much worthy of the 9th pick, and I see little chance that one of those three players isn’t available. There are 9 players I would love to see the Kings take (those three included), and if any of those are available, I do not consider trading back – thus, I’m not gonna be in favor of trading back!
The one thing that gets me about these trade-back scenarios is the concept of well if you trade back, _____ or _____ will be available. This is a good exercise of tiers, but I think it becomes way too complicated in actuality. There’s a reason that most trades that move back in drafts are only trading a few picks down; GMs don’t want to leave it up in the air who they are going to get.
If you provide a whole list of people to cover the bases (which I appreciate that the author did here), then you better have every single one of them in a comparable tier if you’re going to argue for trading back. I’m not trading back from 9 to 20 just to pray Ziaire Williams (10th on my board) lasts to 20, because I’m not gonna be thrilled with taking Greg Brown, Chris Duarte, or Ayo Dosunmu. I’d rather just see the Kings take their man at 9.
Brenden: I have Wagner, Moody, and Jalen Johnson in a completely different tier ahead of the rest of the players you have mentioned. I would stay at nine for a real chance at any of those three players along with Scottie Barnes, Josh Giddey, or even a sliding Jonathan Kuminga.
I do think there is a notable enough difference between the two groups that I would be hesitant to trade down.
From Rob Hessing
Do you take this organization seriously, and if so, how, and if not, what do they need to do to get you to take them seriously?
Tim: It really depends on what you mean by taking the organization seriously. I still watch every game, debate every draft pick, and write 3 – 4 articles per week about the team, so in that sense, I take the Kings very seriously.
If you’re talking about the decision-making abilities and the reputation of the franchise, I take my two-year old’s play-time threats more seriously than the people running this organization. Vivek Ranadive repeats the same mistakes once every three years and continues to believe he’s doing brilliant things, Matina Kolokotronis is invincible within the organization, Luke Walton is the biggest head coaching joke in the league, and Monte McNair has done little to dissuade me from lumping him in with the rest of that group. To put it simply, I will not take the Kings seriously, nor will I truly think they have a shot at being anything better than average (which is still a significant step up from where they are today) while Vivek Ranadive is still the man on top.
Will: I take this organization seriously the same way I’d take a toddler holding a handgun seriously. 99% of the time, the toddler is messing up on the little things – still not understanding what they need to walk, eat, play. It’s slightly disappointing when you see them trying to take those first steps day after day and they’re constantly falling on their ass, but, nature says, they’re probably going to figure it out at some point. You’ve got jokes, laugh at their failure but ultimately have hope. Right now, they’ve got their chubby hands fumbling around a Glock and suddenly their lack of coordination and control are pretty damn serious. They get spooked, pull the trigger – baby might be setting themselves back in that whole successful walking, eating, playing thing for a long, long time.
The Kings are at a pivotal moment with the strain of hope on the fanbase, two young stars and a whole lot of options. One wrong move on their end and they could completely crash this franchise. They’re supposed to be entertainment and a social cornerstone of the community, but how much longer can fans really be expected to continue to show out after years of false hope, short-sighted business moves and generally terrible management. Sure, it’s the worst case scenario. Sure, the baby is just as likely to drop the gun and crawl towards rattling keys, but in the moment, the situation is dire and I’m not relaxing until the baby has a binky in their hand and not a damn blunderbuss. One bad trade for a malcontented or oft-injured star and this organization, franchise and community support is toast.
Bryant: I would take a tapeworm in my gut seriously, but a mental tapeworm sucking up my time, energy, and willpower? I call that fandom, and it does not matter if I take it seriously. It exists and will continue to do so.
I wish the Kings had favored a more complete rebuild, but they haven’t – and until Monte McNair tosses his dice and shows us his grand move, I will hold out hope but not confidence.
Brenden: I do, literally just for the sake of my own sanity. It pains me to assume the Sacramento Kings are going to make the wrong decision 90% of the time, even if that is what they have proven. It takes the fun out of theorycrafting, analyzing, and team building exercises.
So, the team (FO & ownership) has given us no real reason to take them seriously but I still refuse to accept that they will mess up every single decision. Fox and Haliburton is a very good core and marginal moves (like hiring a new head coach¦) should be enough to turn the ship in the right direction. We’ve seen teams change their franchise trajectory quickly and I’m ignorantly hoping the Kings can do the same.
From Sacto_J
Are we close enough to being one vet/trade away from really competing for the playoffs or should we keep the pick and continue adding young talent?
Tim: If the Kings want to somewhat guarantee themselves a playoff spot next year, say seven seed or better, they need to trade for an All-Star level talent. That could happen, but they’re going to need to include a lot more than just the number nine overall pick – likely Bagley, Barnes, a future first rounder, and potentially more, depending on what name we’re discussing.
If the Kings solely use the pick and players to target a veteran, a Myles Turner for example, I think they’ll be in that mix for the play-in, with no guarantees that they make it further than that. I’m fine dealing the pick as a concept, but Monte McNair needs to ensure that any trade doesn’t only take next season into account, but three or four seasons down the line.
Will: I think we’re one vet/trade away from really competing FOR the playoffs but much further off from competing IN the playoffs. With a decent swing, I think the Kings could be right there for the 7th-10th seed next year and with a significant seed I could even squint hard enough to see them getting up into a 6th seed and all that being said – They’d still be nowhere near contenders and much closer to being in the we won a playoff game this year! territory for two or three years. Obviously, I was the guy who saw the last few years as a perfect opportunity to tank. They didn’t and the Kings aren’t any better for their failed attempts at the play-in game. Of course I’m going to say that I think the Kings should aim for talent to surround our young flashy back court of the future. I’m certain they’ll do the opposite.
Bryant: I expect this team will trade the pick. I think there are many rookies who could be making serious contributions to the playoff push come next February/March – Moses Moody, Franz Wagner, Scottie Barnes, Jalen Johnson are all top 10 picks on my board who I think could play 20-25 MPG early in their careers. There are guys I’m a bit lower on than consensus – Alpren Sengun, James Bouknight, Davion Mitchell, Corey Kispert – who could all be strong difference makers next years. And hell, if this team was more patient, than I’d be cheering for Ziaire Williams or Kai Jones, both excellent high-ceiling gambles who could take this team to a new level¦ in two to three years.
But the 9th pick is arguably Monte McNair’s greatest offseason asset, and if the team is hell bent on ending this postseason drought, then I expect they’ll trade it for a veteran; I just hope it’s a bigger package for someone meaningful.
Brenden: The real issue is I think the team was nearly good enough last season, the talent was just ridiculously miscast on the defensive end of the floor. The offense is set with Fox and Haliburton running the show, but the Kings desperately need wing and center defensive difference makers.
That could come via trade (Myles Turner) but I also think that there are multiple draft picks (Moses Moody & Franz Wagner) who could be the effective defensive players that this roster so desperately needs.
Either way I’d say yes, I think the team is marginal moves away from being in the playoffs/play-in.
From WizsSox:
See a lot of takes about trading the 9th pick. Considering cap, what real targets (that would make the team better this year) are available and that could be had for the 9th pick and one of Hield/Bagley/Barnes? Or just 9th pick alone?
Tim: The 9th pick and a solid starter (Barnes) or worse (Buddy or Bagley) probably doesn’t get you as much as Kings fans wish. In fact, over the last ten years, there’s basically zero history of teams swapping a mid-lotto pick for a contributing veteran. The closest deal would be the Blazers sending out #16, a future first rounder, and Trevor Ariza for Robert Covington, but a non-lotto first and a future first from a perennial playoff team are hard to quantify next to a lottery selection from a historically inept team. The Kings may very well deal the pick, but the package is probably going to be far more expanded than we think.
Will: If we’re talking something like one of those players and the #9 pick, I wouldn’t be surprised if the return is rather low. Mile Bridges of Charlotte Hornets fame is a guy that we’ve talked about on The Kings Herald Show more than a few times. Buddy and the 9th might be enough to get him away now that Gordon Hayward is back to his old tricks. The Hornets could grab themselves some cheap youth with upside, but still have a big veteran piece towards a playoff run. Rozier, Hield, Hayward is a great 1,2,3 group with youngins like Lamelo Ball, PJ Washington and Malik Monk. Another swap I’ve been thinking about is a guy like Josh Hart for the 9th, maybe in a 3 teamer that sends Buddy out. Maybe the Wizards want some bench help out and would take Buddy and the 9 for Rui Hachimura? I don’t even know if I do these deals, I guess the point is, I don’t think many teams will value the 9th and a Bagley or Buddy incredibly high.
Bryant: I know that Brenden is going to pick one of my preferences, so I’ll leave him to cover Myles Turner. My favorite outcome is Pascal Siakam – I know that he had shoulder surgery in May that will keep him limited well into the new season, but I think he’s an excellent player on both ends, and one who would fit well with De’Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton.
Brenden: MYLES TURNER. I will scream it from the mountain tops all summer, Myles Turner is the elite rim protector that the Sacramento Kings need to clean up their atrocious defense.
Other intriguing names that come to mind are Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, and Pascal Siakam. I think each of them could be the third cog that’s the Kings need to take a jump to the next level. Especially if they can hold onto Harrison Barnes in the process.
From Milkman:
Best package to get Ben Simmons?
Tim: The best package I would offer for Ben Simmons would be the ninth pick, Harrison Barnes, Delon Wright (they desperately need a solid point guard), a future first rounder (top-8 protected), and whatever remnants of assets I could get from a third team in a Marvin Bagley trade. Is that enough? Probably not. But we need to stop pretending that we’re getting an All-Star, Defensive Player of the Year candidate for dribs and drabs like Marvin Bagley and Buddy Hield. Ben Simmons is flawed, but he would be the best or second-best player on the team by a country mile, and that’s nothing to laugh at in Sacramento.
Will: If you want the BEST package for Ben Simmons, if you want to win the Ben Simmons trade (by a hair) – you aren’t going to like it but you offer up Tyrese Haliburton to go along with Barnes, Buddy, #9 and future pick swaps. Yes, yes, BOOO HISSSS, but you aren’t short-sheeting Daryl Morey and whether you like it or not, Ben Simmons is a better player than Tyrese Haliburton is, and maybe ever will be. He’s a 3 x All-Star, DPOY candidate and (seemingly) available. Morey sent out a high-level starter in Kevin Martin, a young upside guard in Jeremy Lamb and two firsts for Harden and I’d venture to guess that under his tutelage, Monte McNair came to understand that to get transformative talent you’ve got to pay a heavy price. Simmons would be the best player acquired by Sacramento since Ron Artest and while the fit isn’t perfect or pleasant to think about in terms of cost, he would absolutely give the Kings a better shot at a championship.
All that being said, it isn’t happening and I’m not advocating for it, but, in our reality, it is the best possible package.
Bryant: Harrison Barnes, Marvin Bagley, the 9th pick, and a lotto-protected 2022 or 2023 1st. I think Simmons would solve a ton of defensive issues, and while he’s NOWHERE close to a seamless offensive fit, he’s a low-usage, high-assist player who doesn’t need to dribble the air out of the ball on offense. That said, I think we all know the biggest thing holding Ben Simmons back is Ben Simmons at this point¦ and since when has Sacramento (or being coached by Luke Walton) been the right situation for players trying to figure themselves out? There’s a real chance said deal could go sideways and then you’re stuck on a massive contract¦ but there’s also a real chance that without the pressure of Philadelphia, he just settles into a strong defensive role and fits well with Fox and Haliburton.
Brenden: I think people are already underrating Ben Simmons, somewhat understandably. Sure, his free throw shooting and lack of willingness to shoot any jump shot at all is a real concern, but he also is a 24 year old who was rightfully selected to three All-Star teams and two All-Defense teams while being in consideration for defensive player of the year. The Kings would love to have that type of talent on the roster.
The most I would offer is Harrison Barnes, Marvin Bagley, the 9th pick, and a top-8 protected 2022 1st rounder. Obviously, I would much prefer that package to include Buddy Hield’s name rather than Barnes but that is the absolute furthest I would go.
From KANGZ_FOREVER
Assuming no one crazy slides, who would you take at #9 in the draft?
Tim: I will continue to preach the message that the Kings are in desperate need of high-end, high-ceiling talent, even if that means taking a bit of a risk on a potential bust. After talking through the possibilities with Bryant and Brenden, I’m settling on Ziaire Williams, a prospect who went through a hellish collegiate season and who didn’t perform as well as everyone had hoped. He could be great! He could be terrible! Let’s find out together, shall we?
Will: We still have a month to go on this, so take these with a grain of salt. The guy I’m taking is Alperen Sengun. He’s the reigning Turkish League MVP, won’t turn 19 till 4 days before the draft and could wind up being a fantastic fit for what the Kings are building. The guy is a demon on the offensive end – with a great display of offensive moves, special passing instincts out of the post and is a great screen and roll threat to boot. He’s a great rebounder without being the most athletic guy on the floor, he plays with that fire and intensity that the Kings tend to shy away from in recent years and while his long-range shooting isn’t there yet, his free throw percentage throughout the BSL season was 81.2%, a decent indicator that he’s not broken with his mechanics. Omer recently mentioned that he reminded him of Turkish League Boogie Cousins and while their size isn’t exactly the same (Alperen is an inch shorter), the general feel of his game is spot on.
If you’ve been hounding the Kings to go get Sabonis, this guy is going to impress the hell out of you.
Bryant: Moses Moody. Best 3-and-D wing in the Kings range with good catch-and-shoot ability, real toughness on both ends, defensive versatility and length, and an underappreciated ceiling as he shows more and more shot creation moments.
Brenden: Moses Moody or Franz Wagner. Both of these players have shown the ability to be defensive playmakers – Moody with his 7’0 wingspan and Franz Wagner standing at 6’8 both move well laterally and displayed high defensive IQ throughout their collegiate careers. The Kings need players who can at very least hold their own on the defensive end of the floor and ideally be positive contributors on a nightly basis, which both Moody and Wagner project to do.
They both also have shown promise on the offensive end of the floor, more so Moody who shot 35.8 percent from deep on upwards on five attempts per night and flashed self creation abilities a la Khris Middleton. Wagner is a typical well rounded European with underrated playmaking and overall good decision making while on the floor.
I’d be thrilled with either one of these players and think there’s a good chance they are both available when Sacramento is on the clock at pick nine.
From TyrekeFan18
What’s a realistic trade for Marvin Bagley?
Tim: Best case scenario is a later first rounder from a team looking to snag a once highly-touted prospect for a low cost, but even that feels like a stretch at this point. Sacramento can probably get another likely bust like Mo Bamba, a solid, if unexciting young player in the realm of Josh Okogie, or a pair of pretty solid second round picks. It’s sad.
Will: I don’t realistically think it’s anything other than a lotto-protected first rounder or an equally embattled young player. Maybe Bamba is the ceiling in this case, but nothing more.
Bryant: While part of me would rather keep Bagley and make him play out his contract year in a put-up-or-shut-up moment, we all know he’s being traded whether it’s the right call or not. I have no idea how to evaluate his value, so I’ll say cap space and a 2nd rounder and be done with it.
Brenden: It’s no secret that the Kings will likely need to clear salary if they want a real shot at re-signing Richaun Holmes. Marvin Bagley is the obvious candidate, yet there are only so many teams that have cap space this offseason to absorb his $11.3-million. Of those teams, OKC is the obvious candidate that could try to bring him in and give him an opportunity to turn his career around.
I expect very minimal return, something like Isaiah Roby or Kenrich Williams in addition to the 34th overall pick.
From Rob Hessing:
Golden State and OKC are two teams that project to improve more than the Kings via the upcoming draft. Obviously Houston as well. One could also argue New Orleans, who pick 10th but have four 2nd round picks. Absent of a major shift deal this summer, where do you rank the Kings in the West next season?
Tim: Uhhh….in Monte McNair is on the hot seat category? The Rockets will probably be worse, and I think the Spurs are also headed nowhere fast, but outside of those two, I would put money on every other team in the West being better. The Wolves have a better young core and I think they’ll make a play for a Ben Simmons or Pascal Siakam type player. The Warriors will rocket past the Kings. Oklahoma City can use their million future picks to get better, along with their lottery selection. It doesn’t look good for the Kings, to be quite honest.
Will: Absent a major deal? The Kings aren’t doing better than they did last year. I would not be surprised at all to see the Kings south of every other team in the West but the Thunder and Rockets. If the Wolves click like they seemed to at the end of last season, or the Spurs pieces continue their natural progression, or the Pelicans don’t blow it all up to fit around Zion better, the Kings will (again, without a major deal) be worse than they all are. With one of the worst head coaches in the NBA and in the lower third of the league in terms of talent, the Kings aren’t going anywhere with an infusion somewhere.
Bryant: 10th or lower. I’m fairly confident they’ll be better than the Rockers, Thunder, or Wolves, but the Spurs are in the same tier and the Grizzlies and Pelicans – to me – are both significantly better off. If someone is gonna come tumbling down, it’ll be interesting to see how the Portland Trail Blazers hold together after Dame Lillard’s recent rumblings after the Chancey Billups hiring. I think the Kings will have a shot at the playoffs, but I’m not putting money on it, no matter which rookie gets drafted.
Brenden: Let me just say, I hate this question – it’s depressing. I think the Kings will be in the same tier as the Memphis Grizzlies, New Orleans Pelicans, and San Antonio Spurs while being clearly above the Houston Rockets, Oklahoma City Thunder, and Minnesota Timberwolves. The Kings will probably be right around where they were in 2020-21 barring a massive roster shakeup. The 9th seed will be a very possibly landing spot, but so will 12th once again.
It’s difficult when I view those rosters as comparable and the tiebreaker comes down to coaching, which the Kings are going to lose every time with Luke Walton at the helm. I will predict the Kings finish in 10th and make the play-in tournament, assuming it still exists.
Early season prediction after reading these answers:
^ Marvin trying to hitchhike his way outta here.
Pack your “Bags!”
It’s hard to predict where the Kings will be next year. We still have the draft, trades and Free Agency.
If this team makes few or minimal moves: Like Signing Enes Kanter and Justice WInslow. I can see this team, anywhere between 7-11. If the Kings can orchestrate a impactful trade, Siakem, Simmons, etc, I think the Kings can be in the Top 5 converstation. In a strange way, I think the Blazers and Mavs are going to take a step back, unless their roster’s change. Billups is unproven. I would even venture to guess this is a bad move for the Blazers long term. Lillard will force his way out. Dallas hiring Kidd will be a disaster. He’s not a good coach. To be frank, I don’t even know why he got another chance to be a head coach again.
It’s going to be a very active trading frenzy coming up for alot of teams. So it’s difficult to predict.
Everyteam in the West outside of the Suns and Clips have major question marks and decisions to make this Summer.
Nah, it’s easy.
Top 5…. are you serious? This is the kings…the chances of being in the bottom 5 are much much higher than the top 5
Assuming that the Kings are able to clear out some salary, do you think that they should make a strong offer to Bobby Portis? If so, how much are you willing to pay? I’d guess that he’ll have offers between $15-20 mil per season, and I don’t think I’d have a problem with that, since Holmes is likely gone either way.
I would like Portis for about a 3 year deal of 30 million tops ! A 20minute streak spread 4 that is good on O and terrible on D !
I love Portis. I mentioned him a few months ago. An enforcer and the type of nasty this team needs. The other UFA i like is Gary Trent Jr. we had him in the draft and let him go for nothing.
I’ll buy you a sarsaparilla if Portis gets over $10m per season.
Now I’m conflicted, because I hope that you’re right, but on the other hand, who doesn’t love free sarsaparilla?
L*kers and their fans, probably. They also hate puppies and Fridays.
whoever downvoted this is sus
I thought it was you.
Hmmm, you’re trying to throw us off your trail…!
I’m a criminal mastermind and all, but downvoting a slam on Lakers’ fans? Even my generous ethical boundaries don’t include something like that.
Clearly it was Jason Jones.
Fuck the Fakers.
There. That settles it.
I’ve been kind of iffy about portis after he ended Mirotic’s nba career. He’s clearly a skilled bench big though.
Portis would be a classic buy high situation.
Agreed. I’ve liked Portis as a player since he came into the league but I’m not paying more for him than I would just to retain Holmes.
Regarding Ben Simmons, I think the way Jerry Reynolds talked about it was the best. Basically, he’d love to trade for him, that he’d trade a lot to get him, but Fox and Hali are off the table. It’s better than the way the question is always phrased on this site: what is the most you’d trade away. The way the issue is framed on this site presses everyone to their limits, which normally happens at the end of negotiation, not at the beginning.
Morey will ask for Hali at a minimuum. If Mcnair is willing to do that, I am good with it. I don’t see Hali ever being as impactful as Simmons, esp on the defensive end. Reynolds and everyone else seems to think Hali is off the table. So, where did they hear this? I am curious. Or is this just an assumption.
Simmons makes us an automatic playoff team(Healthy) He exponentially improves our Defense. His commitment to D will resonate throughout the whole team.
I think it’s an assumption and opinion. Most likely correct, I doubt McNair would move either Hali or Fox.
It’s on the last podcast. I think it’s the first topic, maybe first 15 minutes or so. I disagree about Hali. Hali is the type of guy who could play his entire career in Sac. He is already extremely efficient and versatile ¦ as a young rookie!
Said this in one of the other threads, but if you can’t get Simmons without giving up either Fox or Haliburton, I think I’d be more optimistic building around Simmons and Haliburton than around Fox and Haliburton.
You’re assuming you CAN build around Simmons. How do you know he’ll want to sign his next contract in a small market? With Fox and Hali, you have a couple good young players who already ARE content and thriving in Sac. And more importantly, we should not be pressing ourselves to the limits yet. Why ask ourselves how much can squeezed out us in the most desperate circumstances?
The fact that Fox is so content concerns me.
if you want to trade Fox, that would be different. If you don’t want to trade him, tossing his name around just attracts more vultures and hyenas who want to pick away our innards.
I wouldn’t be actively trying to trade De’Aaron Fox. But if you can get a better player who is still young and under long-term control, I don’t know why you wouldn’t consider it.
It’s interesting to think about building that team. Simmons has clear, big flaws but Haliburton/Hield/Barnes/Simmons/ is just a 3-and-D-ish Center away from being a pretty complete team on both ends of the court.
Yeah, I see how that really balances out the roster at both ends of the floor. Would certainly be interesting, and highly unlikely to happen.
Oh, it’s absolutely not happening.
Then I’m opposed, because I get a ton of use from my innards.
I don’t think it’s a big deal. But I also don’t think we should assume Fox wouldn’t be just as or more content playing somewhere else. I think Fox is a very smart guy who knows how to talk to the press/fans. I wouldn’t be so quick to take everything he says at face value.
How do you know Fox will want to sign his next contract in a small market? Simmon’s contract is up in 2025. Fox’s is in 2026. I’d say either way, if you aren’t competitive by 2024-ish you better better be thinking of a post-Fox/Simmons contingency plan.
Why get into it? Why mention his name in trade rumors? Unless you want to trade him. So, now that Bogi is traded and we can’t talk about who will start between Buddy and Bogi, we’re all going to talk about whether to trade Fox? There’s no controversy with Fox. You all are starting to create one. And then every GM is going to think they can squeeze Fox out of us, which means no deal will ever get done.
We, here on TKH, have absolutely zero impact on what GM’s think or do.
I don’t know, I’m pretty sure TKH is to blame for the Dwayne Dedmon signing.
The heck are you talking about?
Which comment do you not understand? Not wanting to trade Fox?
Sorry, wondering how we are creating controversy by talking about potentially upgrading the roster? That’s a very odd take on a sports message board.
It’s part of the damaged collective Kings’ fandom psyche: the team both always sucks and the pieces are always too valuable to get rid of!
Staying the same is the worst thing, except for change!
Vivek reads these message boards and inputs the comments/responses into his computer thingy and then presses the calculate button. After reviewing the results and consulting with Joe Dumars and Vlade Divac, he makes his basketball decisions.
It’s why I only post GIFs and make bad jokes. I don’t want to be responsible for missing the playoffs again.
Heh. If he did that, the Kings would have been in the playoffs this season with Doncic.
Exactly 😉 Umm and that we should have hung onto
Xavier Tillman .. whoops! OK, that was mostly me ..
Personally I think they are already there. This would be the make or break year to make those changes and let them adapt and get into the playoffs.
I think it will be underwhelming whatever move they make and I think it’s just more typical spinning of the wheels here.
But the fox timeline is only going to be for about 4 more years barring some major moves or an extension. Then it’s time to talk trades so you’re not left with nothing when he leaves. Which he undoubtedly will next contract.
Isn’t that a danger in trading for any high-level player?
Besides, Simmons is currently on a long-term deal.
Simmons is under contract for another four years.
Buddy, Bagley, and a 2022 protected 1st.
Who says no? Move Fox off the ball. Hali runs point. Barnes is solid. Simmons becomes our Draymond Green, then the reliable Holmes.
We would kick ass. #6 Book it. The next year #3 seed. Book it.
Nobody should be untouchable on this roster, especially if we can acquire a high-end player.
And I don’t think they are. I think the 2023 first is also on the table, unprotected, which is extremely valuable when the team giving you that pick is the Kings.
regarding pick 9, are we going to discuss Garuba? His draft profile and highlights show some things the Kings need: defense, rebounding, physicality, depth at 4 and 5. As for fit, he already has experience playing Bagley’s spot last year, along the baseline between the corner 3 and dunker’s spot, and has some experience in the short roll also. He appears to be switchable, and pokes the ball away from ball handlers like the guy a lot of you love so much for his D: Scottie Barnes.
I think if you’re picking in the top 10 like the Kings, you should try and get guys that has a potential to be a star. Usman Garuba does not fit that mold IMO. As we get closer to the draft, will know more about who the Kings like in their interviews and workouts. But my very early prediction says it could be Ziaire Williams at #9.
Ziaire will be an all star? How long have I been asleep? Well, forgetting about what I think, there is not a single draft board out there which places Ziaire above Garuba.
The CBS mock at the top of this page does. And Venenie’s latest big board has Williams higher (though his latest mock draft doesn’t). For the most part they’re usually within a few draft slots of each other. I’m not a big Williams fan, but I don’t think we should act like having Williams above Garuba is some crazy hot take.
Oh. Just read Garuba is going to Tokyo this summer with the Spanish Olympic team because he brings all those things to the court that the Kings need.
Ehh I’ll take Williams over Garuba any day of the week and I’m not even a huge Williams fan. A lot can happen between now and draft night, some guys can impress on their individual workouts and interviews. I just think Williams at the end of the day, would probably be a top 10 pick or late lottery.
So many people are talking about Ziaire and I got to say he is my worst nightmare at #9. Stop speaking it into existence!
My worst nightmare would be Jalen Johnson!
That’s my second worst lol
I would be okay with Jalen Johnson. I think #9 is too high for Ziaire Williams, though.
Yeah that’s my take as of right now with regards to Williams. I currently have him around 15-18th but IDK, I just have this feeling that Williams stock will rise this coming few weeks.
Jalen Johnson scares me. The talent is obviously there, the problem I have is his mental psyche and I’m not sure being drafted by the Kings would help that. We all know the story about him quitting on his team a couple of times during HS and College.
Garuba is a good player- a solid mid to late first rounder. Never will be a star. Trade MB3 to OKC for 16 or 18 and he will be there.
At 9, don’t trade. Take one of top 6 if drops ( unlikely) then have to wait through duds and Orlando. Can get one of Moody, Wagner or Sengun. I think duds take Bouknight if they can’t trade pick. Orlando will probably get Kuminga or Barnes at 5. What do they do at 8? I worry that Sengun can be put in no man’s land on D like B. Lopez in current series and that Wagner has a low ceiling. So Moody.
And could trade MB3 for 18 and 34 and get Garuba and my crush- Vrenz.
It’s pretty wild to me that we just instinctive still list late first as comparable value for Bagley. It seems to me that ship has sailed, or at the very least seems like an irresponsible use of a late first, which could be used to actually improve your team.
I agree with Brendan on this one. My HOPE would be to get someone like Roby/Kenrich + 34, NAW/Naji + 35.
I don’t agree. I think Bagley absolutely can be dealt for a late first (with some salary coming back). To be clear, I think the guy is terrible and have zero desire to keep him. Abysmal passer, selfish, entitled, horrible defensive player. But he has some talent for scoring the ball, and if you can get him from worst in the NBA in those other basketball areas to just well below average, plus a little better on offense, he’s a contributor. I’m not arguing that you should keep him, but I disagree with the idea that he has no value.
Outside the bubble of Kangz fans Bagley is worth nothing at this point. Not a single team has mentioned any interest in Bagley. He is going to be a cheap free agent at the end of the season. He will get a one year try out with another team after stealing another $11 million from the Kangz.
Thanks for the response, fellas. I agree that trading down in the draft is much less appetizing than swapping it for a proven veteran. I don’t believe we’re getting an All-Star like Simmons or Siakam, but a Myles Turner for #9 + Hield and some additions sounds great to me.
Assuming that doesn’t happen, I’m totally onboard with homerun swings for a franchise that desperately needs high-end talent and will only ever hope to get it through the draft. That said, really disagree on Ziaire. He’s a late-1st flyer imo. If you’re taking a big cut at #9, I’d suggest Barnes, Bouknight, or Jalen Johnson. If you’re trying to hit doubles, Wagner, Moody, Sengun, and Giddey seem pretty viable.
I’d be really curious to see how Siakam’s shoulder injury impacts his trade value.
Toronto may want to keep Siakem- they have some talent + a #4.
I think Simmonds can be exposed- foul him, dare him to shoot the ball. Playoffs have been interesting in that some of the stars have been exposed as one dimensional- Gobert, Simmonds, and now B. Lopez. I think Indiana would jump at trading Turner.
At 9, Barnes is gone. Bouknight? like him but short, talented 2 guard. And I think duds take him. J. Johnson- talent is there but….
I guess I like the “doubles” Moody, Sengun ( risk of exposure) Wagner and Giddey ( him and Hali together? the ball would move)
With the freeing of Bill Cosby, maybe the NBA should hire him as a consultant to navigate the fact that Luke Walton, Jason Kidd and Chauncey Billups are all NBA head coaches for the 2021-22 season.
Well, maybe at least the NBA can retain Cosby’s legal team!
You forgot the “S” in front of “cares,” and I don’t like that I can’t see what the logo’s right hand is doing.
He’s touching his ball with his left hand.
Oof.
That intro presser in Portland was a real cluster.
I don’t get the sudden uproar about these guys getting coaching positions now when they were already coaches/analysts for years. The NBA doesn’t have much of a moral compass, it never has. If you’re this irked by these recent coaching hires then you probably shouldn’t support the NBA with your fandom.
“sudden”?
Here, I’ll use a form of the word in a sentence to make it more clear:
“The Kings suddenly find themselves in a playoff drought.”
made me laugh !
If you are more irked by people discussing the issues surrounding these coaches than you are with the issues surrounding these coaches then you probably shouldn’t support participation in society with your humanity.
But since I am not likely to take disingenuous fandom advice from you, I am sure you are unlikely to take basic don’t-be-a-shit-human advice from me! ð
/shrugs
Fox for simmons straight up. Fox will never be an all-star in the west. Booker, Mitchell, Steph, Dame, Luka, Morant, Murray….
Putting aside the trade idea, is the goal to place a guy on the All-Star team?
I only voted for All-Stars maybe once in my life, back when Mitch Richmond was playing. No Mitch, I bitch.
Nowadays? I have no Fox to give about it.
Everyone knows you aren’t any good if you don’t make the all star team. Just ask Trae Young this year¦
No but it’s certainly a metric that is used
It’s not even that he needs to be an all star just like prime mike Conley. But idk if his ceiling is even that.
His numbers are impressive until you account for his defensive lapses.
He’s a good player and seems like a good guy. But once again he’s stuck in the kings talent perspective wormhole. He’s great on the kings. On the clippers he’s good. On the warriors he’s ok. It’s all about perspective.
Exactly, I completely agree.
I agree. Put Hali at the 1.
The goal is not an all star.
Again, I think Simmonds is exposed- most of the time will do well but in season crunch time, the strategy is to foul him and to let him/dare him to shoot- shoot anything even a lay-up it seems. He is an empty calorie guy except on D, where he plays well. I would just as soon have Thybulle.
https://twitter.com/massey_evan/status/1410241556397932549?s=20
We really completely flushed another season down the toilet by postponing the inevitable.
And we’re doing it again, but next season with the coach…
Forever in the lottery
But unsuccessfully competing for a consolation prize was so fun!!!!!!!!
Fucking idiots. Same shit they claimed at beginning of the year.
Worst organization in sports. Sac media holds doesn’t them accountable.
Fuck Vivek and co. We are having the same conversation again. Inept assholez.
I don’t know anything about the stock market. But I’d hella not take any advice from the Kings FO about when to buy/sell.
Look, I don’t doubt that the Kings will be looking at any and all options, but I’m not sure I’m buying into what a “source” says to @HoopAnalysisNet.
Source:
1000%¦take a look at that website and tell me it’s not just some yahoos throwing together shit for trade gossip clicks. Plus they state they got info from sources in what everyone already knows is true, kings open to Buddy and Marvin trades. But because it’s posted on a Twitter page we think it’s legit real info and a sign of something changing?
Cmon all. We can analyze better crap than this.
Next thread someone better report that Wizsoxs sources say the Kings have a high level of interest in Sengun at 9.
It’s on the internets now¦so I know it’s true.
Wonder if this is the same guy that used to try to bum rent money off people at StR, then created a “NBA news service”?
If we did, based on the reactions here his rent is probably paid for through 2025.
The right deal part scares me. To Vivek buddy is the curry equivalent. Yet to
everyone else he’s a bench 2 at best. I don’t think they will find many right deals. It’ll be like getting Vivek convinced to trade cousins. There will be a better trade 2 days ago. Again.
The reason we are so committed to this roster that has produced nothing is that exact fact. Vivek believe that they are so close. Super team just young. The league will see just you wait.
Side note can you imagine how insufferable this guy is gonna be if they make the play in next year? The comments coming from him, we always knew we were close we had faith from
the beginning.
“Fans just need to be patient.”
“What the fans don’t understand is”
The kings will not win again until they make a Chris Webber like trade. Vivek gets out of the way and they hire a new coach …Simmons yes please philly was just the one seed and Ben is proven …..kristaps has something to prove and I believe he is 25 so again yes please! This team needs coaching that gets there players to play to there abilities and a superstar that fits with fox and haliburton this team is a coach and a Ben Simmons from competing…..I would say come on monte but I still think it’s come on Vivek ….trade buddy Marvin and the 9 for a star
Um, better chance at an all star at 9 than at 7 or 8!
We tanked up!
Breaking: Kings trade up to 8.
And in other breaking news “water is wet”.
Open to moving Buddy Hield “in the right deal?” What the f-blank do you think you’re going to get for him?
Maybe the Kings can get that Bogdonovic guy from Atlanta somehow.
Nah, I heard that dude sucks. He was pretty much chained to the bench last night, only played 33 minutes in an Eastern Conference finals game.
I don’t know if I’ve seen your take on Monty McNair’s job here yet, Otis. How do you think he’s doing so far?
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm but…I’m underwhelmed so far. But it’s very early.
Wasn’t sarcasm!
Yeah, I’m in the underwhelmed group. True, it’s early, but I sure hope they’re not working on a 5-year plan.
Monte- took Hali at #12 but that was such a no brainer.
Limited vet signings
Let Bogi go in order to keep some flexibility ( could have had a pick + Snell)
CoJo for Wright- good move but traded 2 seconds
a second for T. Davis- good move
Belly for expiring Harkless-meh
Signed D. Jones a and King. meh
Got younger, more athletic. Traded 3 seconds.
Overall: TBD
I thought Monte stressed cap flexibility when he was hired. The moves he was able to make at the trade deadline did not seem to alter that plan. My question to all that are proposing these interesting trade scenarios is, how do you maintain flexibility when trading for huge long term contracts for potentially flawed players? I would like be to see a superstar traded here, but at what cost?
The purpose of maintaining cap flexibility is so you can move for high level players when the chance arises. Now, you can argue whether Simmons (or others) is the right guy to move for, but this is absolutely the type of situation you maintain cap flexibility to be able to consider.
I get that but it seems we would be sacrificing future flexibility by making a deal that may or may not move the needle much. It’s not like we have LeBron to recruit players to play on cheap deals to fill out the rest of the roster. I’m all for shedding Buddy’s contract and trading Bagley if we can get a reasonable return. If not, sit Bagley on the bench if he doesn’t perform and he will see how much he is valued on the open market. Buddy’s contract does have incentives tied to performance and decreases in value each year. I fear we will have to give up too much to be mediocre in the short term and continue to sacrifice long term success by making another bad move for an overpriced player.
Hey Vivek, Sarver sure looked happy going to the finals tonight collecting that WCC trophy. I was even interested to hear him talk.
Vivek he finally hired an actual GM and actual
coach and went from out of the playoffs for 10 years to the finals.
Vivek take the fucking hint. Less is more.
Badge Legend