It’s official. The Sacramento Kings have declined to match the Atlanta Hawks’ offer sheet and will lose Bogdan Bogdanovic for nothing.
I’ve spent the last several days of the opinion that the Sacramento Kings should match the Hawks offer. It was my belief that the Kings should match and the explore trade options for Bogi. Sure, there would be a no-trade clause for the first year, so the Kings would need to find a deal Bogi liked. Sure, there would be a trade kicker so the Kings would need to either convince Bogi to waive it (giving up money he would rightfully be owed) or convince the receiving team to provide (Kings All-Star) Cash Considerations to offset the extra cap cost. But my belief was that the Kings should not allow a player of Bogdanovic’s caliber to leave for nothing. Get something in return, for gosh sake.
So why am I not mad that the Kings did the exact opposite?
I think the Kings should have matched and sought a deal, but I also understand why the Kings didn’t do that. It’s not what I would have done, and based on an informal reading of Twitter over the last few days it isn’t the choice that most cap experts, analysts, or fans would have made. There’s wisdom in the masses, but does that automatically mean the Kings got this wrong? Maybe, maybe not.
The reason I’m not angry is that I believe this was Monte McNair’s decision. I believe he’s smart enough to consider the various paths forward and that he made the decision he felt best aligned with his vision for the Kings.
I know we Kings fans have been through a lot. We’ve been told to be patient so many times before that I don’t fault anyone who is tired of being patient. Hell, I’m tired of being patient. But I’m willing to be patient if there appears to be a clear path forward. And I believe McNair has a plan.
In fact, I think it’s the plan many of us argued for, myself included. The Kings need to reset around De’Aaron Fox’s timeline. Hopefully that includes Marvin Bagley as well. It includes Tyrese Haliburton.
You know who isn’t on Fox’s timeline? Bogdan Bogdanovic.
Again, the Kings could have kept Bogi and then tried to trade him, but trading him in the first year would have required Bogi’s approval and maneuvering around a trade kicker. Impossible? Absolutely not. Easy? Absolutely not.
What has Monte McNair talked about since he got here? From his introductory press conference to his unofficial statements via Woj tonight, McNair has talked about flexibility. The flexibility to make moves swiftly when the opportunity arises.
The roster we see now isn’t going to be the roster after the trade deadline. I’ve never felt more confident about a Kings prediction. I think McNair will aggressively seek to trade Buddy Hield, Harrison Barnes, Cory Joseph, and Nemanja Bjelica. He might not be able to trade all of them. It would be incredible if he did. Bjelica and Joseph will be gone next offseason either way. Bjelica is an expiring contract and CoJo has only a small guarantee next season, both could be appealing for contenders at the deadline. Barnes and Hield will be harder to move, and I don’t think McNair will move either for anything less than what he considers a fair value.
Which brings me around to Buddy Hield. In the justification for not matching, Woj said the Kings wanted to focus on the “young core of Fox, Bagley and Hield”. I’ve seen Kings fans getting upset at Hield’s inclusion as part of the “young” core. But this inclusion seems calculated and smart to me. That’s McNair putting it out publicly that Buddy Hield is a key part of the Kings core. That’s going to make Buddy feel valued. Buddy is back in the starting lineup. Buddy will have an opportunity to thrive again. And that should rebuild his value, to the point where the Kings could trade him for value.
Could all of this blow up in McNair’s face? 100%. We’re Kings fans, we know that rebuilds can fail. But it seems like McNair has a clear plan to re-center this roster around De’Aaron Fox for the long term. The Kings will probably lose a lot of games this season. But wait until you start reading Bryant’s draft previews for this upcoming class. It’s a class full of true superstar potential. The exact type of class you want to have a high pick for.
I don’t know if this rebuild will be any different from the last 5 tries. But I see a plan, and I think the plan makes sense. I’m willing to give McNair a little longer, even if I disagree with some of the moves in the meantime. This isn’t to say anyone needs to agree with me, to each Kings fan their own opinion. But I see experienced professionals executing a plan, and I’m willing to see how it plays out*.
*Unless we sign Hassan Whiteside, in which case we march on Golden 1 Center with pitchforks and torches
Well, I’m still wondering when the Kings are going to get involved with free agency…….
Whiteside rumors aside.
My assumption is they sign the three rookies, sign DaQuan Jeffries (that would put them at 14) and maybe sign one free agent to round out to 15.
Whiteside is #15. I think that’s full tank mode though if those rookies are going to be legitimately on the roster and not in Stockton. If next year’s draft is as good as it sounds, tank, save the money and come out ahead next season.
Or maybe McNair is going to go all Money Ball and put together a cheap winning team. That would be something.
That’s near impossible in the NBA though.
Who’s the 14th? I can think of: De’Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, Harrison Barnes, Marvin Bagley, Richaun Holmes, Cory Joseph, Tyrese Halliburton, DaQuan Jeffries, Jabari Parker, Nemanja Bjelica, Jah’mius Ramsey, Justin James, and Robert Woodard. Is the 14th Kyle Guy? We’re gonna give a regular roster spot to Kyle Guy, aren’t we?
Vanja Marinkovic, duh.
Duje Dukan is available too.
Ugh……between this and the PappaG signing, two seriously STUPID signings.
Signature Vlade moves.
Quinton Rose
I thought Jeffries puts them at 13. But yeah Whiteside def number 14
I agree with the logic of McNair’s plan. Aside from that, as a fan I am looking forward to watching these young Kings try to run other teams off the floor again.
.
Nice work!
Shouldn’t it be NOT SO YOUNG SUBPAR TEAM
I’m sensing that tanking is going to be difficult for some to accept.
I think it’s because so many people think we’ve been tanking for 14 straight years. It’s hard to spot tanking when what you’ve really been watching is incompetence.
Personally, I’m ready. Tear this thing down to the studs and actually give yourself a chance.
I don’t think tanking means signing Fox to a max deal, unless they are going to figure out how to creatively keep him off the floor – or don’t really believe he’s a franchise level talent.
I think that Fox is a very good player but in the Western Conference, I don’t think Fox alone is leading us to too many wins.
Seems odd to give him a max deal then – but I’m talking about a conceptual thing here. I don’t think McNair’s plan is to tank at all.
Doesn’t he have more trade value now, say, couple a firsts?
This may just be a bit of confirmation bias, but I’ve felt from the beginning that they’d essentially bring Fox in on the plan. They tell him he gets the full max, but be upfront with him that they won’t try to win until his deal kicks in. The goal is to have two stars, plus a complimentary third banana. The hope is that they have 2/3rds of that now (or at least once Fox and Haliburton are in their prime). If they can luck into the second star in the upcoming draft, then they can start to really build something.
So in this scenario…Fox is doing what on the floor? Not trying?
Fox, Hield, Barnes, Holmes, Bjelica and a head coach who’s fighting to keep his job doesn’t sound like a real tank effort.
Otis in my dream scenario he’s dealt at the deadline for future picks. Continuing to dream and I hope RORDOG’s scenario has some truth to it.
My own bias reveals I’m not high on Fox, and I’d like to see 5 or 6 firsts in the Kings cupboard before the trade deadline this year. 9 wins would be great IMHO. I’m not going to games obviously so what the fuck do I care?
teams are allowed to continue to make transaction up until the trade deadline. Even if nothing happens, that’s still bottom 8 team in the league. I can’t really think of a compelling argument for them being better than any team in the Western Conference this season.
I’ve been hearing this – so they could have matched Bogi AND had until the trade deadline to trade him? Weird nobody else brought that up!
That’s still 2/3rd of games this season with Bogi playing. Weird how that works!
I doubt that the plan includes any hope that De’Arron Fox, on his own, is going to lead to more wins. That’s probably why they’re finally attempting to build a team around him.
The Kings don’t know how to tank and they don’t know how to win. They’ll pick in the back half of the lottery for another decade.
I’m frankly stunned that anyone sees what is happening as a tank job. If McNair were tanking, he’d have been much more active in a VERY active NBA offseason (for the rest of the league).
Otis I don’t believe the deals are done. But I’m hoping here obviously.
Are you suggesting that the roster isn’t capable of being a bottom three team on its own, and needs key players to manage it?
If McNair can’t get what he deems to be fair value for guys like Hield, Barnes, Bjelica, and CoJo, should he jettison them to meet whatever your minimum deal requirement is for the free agency period? Would it be better if McNair determined his course of action based on what level of activity that other teams were displaying?
For me, the ability to disregard this, I don’t know, peer pressure, seems like a good trait to have when you’re in charge. There are still players available who will make sense in regard to the time line, but they aren’t going to make anyone run out and buy a jersey. We’ll likely sign at least one of them.
As to Whiteside, for a one-year deal, I don’t think that would be a bad thing, mainly because at present, we don’t have a legit center on the squad. It’s not ideal, but a signing of this type would strike me as pragmatic, rather than indicative of any larger philosophy.
When you’re a bad team, and there looks to be real NBA talent in the draft, standing pat shouldn’t necessarily be an indictment of poor decision-making.
Sometimes nothing is a real cool hand.
I think this team, as built, is going to do what they did last season – 30 wins, maybe more if Fox finally makes the jump. That ain’t tanking, IMHO.
No guarantee that it will b e a great draft or that the Kings would benefit ! Hope you are correct but playing the waiting game means you get to wait ! No interest in a five year plan !
This is the first official tank job. The previous ones are Dumpster fire mode.
Hmmm, I wonder what Fox thinks about all of this.
“Here’s $200 mil, kid. We want you to be a Kings player forever. What’s that? Our plan going forward? NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS..”
And then he signed the contract.
I hope they told him he’s the centerpiece of this team and that this year is going to stink but that’ll take a year or two to build a competent team around him. And then they probably told him to go out and win as many games as possible which I have no doubt he will try to do.
I don’t really see them as ever having tanked before. In the past they were either not caring (Maloofs), or actually thinking they were making roster improvements to try and compete (Pete, Vlade).
This isn’t necessarily a sign of tanking IMO. Could simply be a sign of financial issues.
You definitely could be right and I hope that you are not.
For what it is worth, I believe the reporting suggested that McNair did not want to match, but ownership did.
It appears as though McNair had to convince ownership not to match though.
We haven’t been tanking the last 10 years?
It seemed like the Kings tanked in the 2017-18 season, but I think that’s the only season where they were tanking for most or all of the season. Usually they’ve only tanked at the tail end of the season.
No we’ve been sucking at the Eight Seed Cycle.
McNair could certainly be doing additional transactions to get out of that eighth seed cycle, but I’m not seeing it yet. It feels like he’s hitting the garage sale Sunday around 2.
No, we’ve just sucked.
I hope we do a full, all-american tank job this year. That does not involve Hassan Whiteside.
Just to play devil’s advocate because I can’t stand Whiteside, but isn’t he the perfect guy to tank with? Because I can’t stand him and he would definitely make us worse. Boy, would he make me really dislike watching Kings game though. And just to be clear, I DO NOT WANT THEM TO SIGN WHITESIDE.
Imagine Buddy and Hassan in that locker room after this team loses 8 straight? Our “young” core does not need malcontents stirring things up.
I’m fine w/tanking, but I think re-signing BB8 & trading him good assets should’ve been part of the plan. Buddy should also be traded for good assets, but his trade value will probably need to be built back up.
Again….how come I can only like this comment once?
Fans have been asking to tank for years but the asset/cap management during those years was not “tanking”. It was roll the dice on a draft pick and sign free agents to get the 8th seed so ownership can get that playoff money.
Its going to be a tough couple years but Ill trust the guy who actually has front office experience.
They have five open roster spots, are around 6 million under the cap and have the two exceptions, one around 9 and the other about 3. If they keep both second rounders on the roster, that’s 3 open.
If Whiteside signs for the MLE for one year plus TO, I’m fine with it. Another trade chip. Give the other one to RHJ and call it a day.
As for Bogi, I’m blaming Vlade and moving on. Kings fans have to have short memories.
That’s about where I am – Whiteside for the MLE on a 1 + 1 is fine. I’m not suggesting he should be the starting center but situationally he’s a better post defender than anyone currently on the roster and if he doesn’t work out that would be a very tradeable contract at the deadline. If he does work out, even better, keep him for another year.
Fill the rest of the roster with interesting young players, whether from the 2nd rounders, Stockton or FA and see what they have got. Most likely just a bunch of nothing but you never know.
SURPRISE!!!
Even though I thought they should match for several reasons (including being a fan of Bogi), I can see the logic in being flexible and seeing Bogi as someone that does not line up with Fox’s timeline (though I guess the Hawks believe he does with Trae). I also believe that matching Bogi would have put more pressure to trade Buddy and there is some logic to see if Buddy can get back on track with the Kings. While Bogi and Buddy are close to the same age, I think Buddy with his elite 3 point shooting has a solid 5-6 years of potentially high productivity left (particularly if Fox and Haliburton are setting him up) which would be on Fox’s and the young trio’s timeline. I guess at this stage one had to go.
I would’ve re-signed BB8, but I would’ve traded him as soon as a good deal was available. Buddy should be traded as soon as a good deal is available.
I’ll steal this from the KHTK guys this am: if we don’t match Bogi, and then go sign a load like Hassan Whiteside, that means the Ranadive boys are more involved than they should be.
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning’s end. -Loyal Kings fans’ mantra since 1985.
I thought our mantra’s We didn’t start the fire, it was always burning since the world’s been turning.
I am pretty sure it is Thank you sir, may I have another
I don’t think it’s too complicated. We are a franchise with limited assets, and we just let one go without compensation. And I had no overwhelming love for Bogi.
But it’s certainly not a franchise killing mistake. We’ll see what’s next.
I think someone mentioned it yesterday, but matching him at that price is the higher risk/higher reward option. If BB8 has ongoing knee issues or something like that, his market could dry up completely. I would not have matched, but it was a very close call to me.
a player of bogdonovic’s caliber. Meh. The kings aren’t letting Michael Jordan go, it’s bogdan bogdonovic. If he stays on a shitty kings team they just risk his trade value sinking, then have to choose to keep him with a 70 million dollar contract or trade him for expirings or another mediocre player.
I love bogi but let’s not over value him. Happy he is with a better team where he can be a meaningful role player.
I think you could talk yourself into letting any asset walk without compensation if this is your criteria:
This is one of my least favorite arguments on sports message boards. Again, it was used back in the day to defend Pete D when he didn’t match IT’s offer.
Not getting a return on Bogi stinks, admittedly. But I still feel cautious excitement for what could be if this thing is actually done right. I wish they could find a way to trade for one more first round pick in next year’s loaded class. Maybe they can take on a real garbage contract for Barnes or Buddy to get it?
I hope Bjeli, Holmes, Parker, and one of Buddy/Barnes are all gone by the deadline for young assets and draft capital in the next two years.
So Basketball Reference has us at $96, 484, 325 for nine salaries. Add Halliburton at $3,831,840 (12th pick at 120%). Let’s call the two second rounders at 1.6 mill (Justin James plus 100k). Presume Jeffries at maybe 2 million or so. Maybe another guy or two at 1.5 each or so. That very rough estimate puts us at $108,515,525 for 15 guys, or about 624k under the salary. If the team is aggressive with the second rounders and/or Jeffries and/or runs on with 13 guys, we can get closer to 4 million under. Either way, we’re not far enough under to absorb a lot of salary, but do have a little flexibility for now and the future, so that’s something I suppose.
There has been a lot of talk well before the draft of the team going super young. I would prefer that as opposed to making a couple of random free-agent signings for veterans beyond a minimum to fill the roster. Keep everyone up with the big team this year and see what happens. The Kings need to develop an identity, and that identity has to be speed.
Well said Greg. I’ve been trying to basically say much of what your post has aimed at the last few days. None of this is about ideal, not from the very start. But at least I feel like there’s a plan that COULD actually work. I never felt like that in the Pete or Vlade era at the beginning.
About the only thing I disagree with is automatically trading Barnes and Hield. I think because both not only play, but play lots of minutes, there’s value in that. It’s easy to point out what they don’t do so I’ll just post a few numbers instead.
Player A career: 56.6 TS%, 24.6 USG%, 107 ORtg, 113 DRtg, 14.1 DRB%, 12.7 AST%, 10.8 TOV%, 0.71 WS/48
Player B career: 55 TS%, 21.4 USG%, 108 ORtg, 113 DRtg, 11.1 DRB%, 18.5 AST%, 11.8 TOV%, 0.71 WS/48
Player C career: 54.4 TS%, 19.6 USG%, 108 ORtg, 110 DRtg, 13.8 DRB%, 7.9 AST%, 8.5 TOV%, 0.86 WS/48
Player A is Buddy Hield, Player B is Bogdan Bogdanovich and Player C is Harrison Barnes.
I think that proves much of my point. Maybe Bogi’s positionality provides context and nuance beyond numbers, but what does playing every game and more minutes add to that argument? Also, over the last 3 seasons, Buddy Hield has played 6,855 total minutes. Harrison Barnes has played 7,643 minutes. Bogdan Bogdanovich has played 5,888 minutes. That’s substantially different no matter how you wanna slice it.
Certainly I think this is the biggest issue. You have 3 similar players in terms of overall value, and two are signed and one wasn’t. I don’t really see what much more anybody could have done in all reality other than lock yourself into a roster with 3 similar value players in which all do different things in theory and playing together bring it’s own special problems in actuality.
Could the Kings have done better in trade if they matched? Yeah, been there, argued that. Would moving Buddy Hield, in particular, been better all things being equal? Maybe. Maybe not. But those weren’t viable options for the Kings, and unfortunately they were left with two different but very undesirable options. And it is what it is.
My biggest takeaway from all this is that Monte McNair has no lack of confidence in his vision of how to build the roster. Hate it, don’t hate it, doesn’t matter. If the Kings end up getting a star level player in the ’21 draft, will people be that upset over Bogi’s offer sheet not being matched? Probably not, that’s the bottom line here. If the cap space gets utilized reasonably well, will it matter that Bogi walked? Probably not.
Will it work? Eh, who knows. But I sure as hell like Monte McNair’s process more than any other GM in the Vivek era, and that’s saying something in of itself. It’s small progress even if unwelcome progress in the interim. I’ll take it.
He lets a good player walk for nothing and suddenly he has such vision! Such process! Five days of doing literally nothing! Inspired!
I feel like if I rubbed a bunch of potatoes on you right now, they would taste quite good. Salt and taters, mmm mmmmm.
Nicely broken down, Pook.
So what you’re saying is…..
😉
Again, I was in the match Bogi camp, but I agree with Greg here. We were a 31-41 team with him. He’s a nice complementary player. It’s sad that he was arguably our second best player, but that is on Vlade. Would’ve preferred to get something rather than nothing, but the 4/$72M not being on the hook is something. Let’s just run all the young kids. Give them real time to see what they got as bona-fide NBA players. I think Fox is a lock to be an All-Star in the near future. Haliburton too in 3-4 years. Get a stud in the next draft and you have a real core. If Bagley comes close to the production we expected when he was drafted and even one of the new rookies/sophomores can be solid rotation players, then you got hope for the future. The Garrett Temple, Aaron Afflalo, George Hill, Marco Bellinelli, Anthony Tolliver, Vince Carter days are over. For that I’m thankful. Now let’s continue the clean up and move on from Yogi and CoJo.
P.S. Why do I think Ramsey reminds me of both Ben McLemore and Donovan Mitchell? Which one will he end up closer to being?
Lol so I’m not the only one who thought Ramsey reminded me of Ben Mclemore. Ben had all the tools in the shed to be a great player, unfortunatley he didnt have the game sense and IQ to put it all together….just like the draft process had predicted. Hopefully Ramsey has that.
There were arguments for both decisions, and Monte picked this one.
It helps clear the logjam at SG, may help to keep Buddy calm, aids the tank and allows for cap flexibility. It remains to be seen what that cap flexibility brings us, because in itself cap flexibility is nothing more than glorified cash considerations.
Too early in Monte;s tenure to be mad about him, we have to see how the rookies and this step plays out.
I also agree that much of that is out the window if we bring Whiteside.
As someone not following it closely, I was surprised Bogi wasn’t kept just to retain assets, but I also felt retaining assets like Allen Crabbe for my Blazers was the right call and that didn’t help us at all. It just lead to overpaying him and then overpaying someone else when we finally got rid of Crabbe in a trade. So I dunno the right call!
Bogi is also older than I thought; I assume that might be a common mistake people make if they’re not following it closely enuff (like me), since I have him filed away as “young new decent player on the way up” but he’s already a grandpa.
IF YOU GET HASSAN, I do apologize, but at the very least he produces! I felt like he did all he could do for us last year, and it’s not necessarily his fault that he’s so big and can’t cover the pick and roll well. He can lose focus, but he can lose focus while also putting up insane stat lines and if ya get him and he’s starting I heartily recommend picking him up in Fantasy leagues. He was my secret weapon last year.
I hope a trade can come through to pair Fox up with someone for the longterm!
With all due respect, I have zero interest in having guys on my team for their fantasy value.
Now you guys take care of Harry Giles, okay? He’s a treasure.
That’s another one I don’t get but I didn’t wanna bug you guys for info… why was Giles let go?
I watch Kings games through the season, not every game of course but regularly, and he looked like a legit player to me. I know he has injury issues, but I don’t get why he was let go and had to take a min deal with the Blazers.
I like him a lot, he seems great! And seems like a good kid to boot. I’m hoping he can get minutes right away, and he might since Zach Collins is still rehabbing.
In short: Vlade doing Vlade things.
Don’t look for a rational reasoning here.
He is a great kid, and his passing from the high post and energy is exciting. Still a work in progress, though.
Vlade made Giles an UFA b/c he was upset that Giles was allegedly out of shape last season (though he didn’t look out of shape).
he didn’t look out of shape
I don’t think they meant “fat” – I suspect there were specific strength, conditioning and/or (minimum) weight goals that he missed. And given how clearly pissed the team was about it, they were likely missed by a mile
Whiteside’s advanced stats last season were good, and the team performed well when he was on the floor.
There’s price point that makes him a positive asset. I’m willing to withhold judgement until we see the contract figures.
As a side note it would be fun to be in a fantasy league that utilized advanced statistics.
Yeah, I am still not sold on him. He still looks like a guy who is mainly focused on getting his stats and not about working hard to help the team. Between him and Jabari Parker, they are not the kind of players who I want as the veterans surrounding Bagley.
Also, we do not have a coach or a veteran leader (Dame) to keep him properly in check.
This IMO is one of the examples why advanced stats are an important tool, but not the only deciding factor.
The important thing though – signing Whiteside would give ammo to both the “we’re tanking” and “we’re not tanking” sides!
At this point, signing Whiteside placates the entire fanbase!! Make it happen!
Hey Morty, could you tell Rick to get rid of COVID for us? Much obliged!
Jokes aside, just read through a few of these threads from the last few days if you have a few hundred hours to kill. You’ll have those who believe in retaining an asset at what’s fair value. Others will believe flexibility with the roster, cap and the like combined with the 2021 draft is where this franchise should focus it’s resources. Your Allen Crabbe point (I had totally forgotten about that!) has been mine anout potential trades: Getting value in trade in those scenarios is tough. Tougher than normal IMO. Thus, I’m not banking on trading Bogi for a quality return.
As far as Harry Giles, love him, love his potential, and Vlade Divac screwed up not picking up his option. But, there’s a reason he got a minimum deal, too. He’s got a bit of shitbird in him (love that phrase Jerry Reynolds used about Harry the other day) in that he’s physical and has attitude. Great passer. Rebounds well enough.
But he fouls. Alot. And isn’t a reliable scorer let alone a dangerous one. For every gift he possesses comes with a real drawback. He connects well with fans via social media, and he’s fun to watch if he’s going well. That could be Portland. I wouldn’t bet against it. But the reason he got a minimum deal is based on what’s he accomplished so far, he’s a 4th big man.
Where most think Vlade screwed up was that he gave up on Harry after believing he could be a star early on. And that Vlade pulled the plug too soon after being disappointed in the summer Harry had in 2019. Vlade was quoted as saying ‘Go earn it.’
So I don’t think Harry is a future star, but I think he’s got a chance at sticking in a rotation with the right ingredients. Maybe Portland is it!
Thank you for all the info!
After thinking about it some more, I’d say that Bogi is quite a bit better than Crabbe (or Evan Turner or Harkless or Meyers Leonard, our other recent-ish bad signings) so I think he’d have more value in a trade (even if he doesn’t improve at all) than most examples where retaining the dude was the wrong move… BUT he’s also such a grey zone player…
I think I’d still lean towards “retain him and figure it out later cuz we’re not gonna lure a big name free agent with cap space anyway”, but I’m not convinced at all that this is the correct approach.
Even though my Blazers messed up on all of our “retain just in case” guys in recent years, I find myself still preferring retention over losing them for nothing, but I think this might be just because I’m dumb.
I’m definitely not optimistic about teams in markets like ours getting a good deal for anyone in free agency, but if losing Bogi makes it easier to swing a big trade by not needing to match salaries then it could be a pretty smart idea to let him go (I haven’t checked your team’s cap sheet to know if this is something that could happen; maybe you don’t have cap space anyway).
Got 11+ months to memorize tankathon. They have us picking Evan Mobley at #6. I do think our backcourt is fairly set for the future. Bagley has to come thru as an athletic PF. Is Woodard our SF of the future? Not sure. I like the idea of an athletic C who can protect the rim. Really hoping for a meaningful NCAA season this year so we can see the college kids play.
Oof. The Athletic released a 2021 mock draft today. If it’s an accurate description of the prospects, there are 6 prospects (Cunningham, Green, Boston, Kuminga, Keon Johnson & Williams) that sound much better than Mobley IMO & 3 other prospects (Barnes, Suggs & Love) that I might prefer to Mobley.
Everyone good?
No
Yup
So another season without making the playoffs? Sure why not we’ve been here for 14 seasons whats 1-2 more before I start getting annoyed.
The old FO is out….next up new coach. What better season to let the coach go at the midway/end of season than this one?
Serious question: Did you feel that by making a particular move or moves this offseason that the Kings had a shot at the playoffs? If so, what moves would you have made? Certainly not matching Bobo can’t be the sole thing that will keep Sacramento in the lottery.
Nope…I have no expectations of making the playoffs this year or next. Im not happy with the lack of moves but Im also not upset by the lack of moves so far.
Its a new FO and its early enough that I trust that they know what theyre doing. As you mentioned below the guy has been on the job for 2 months in a shortened offseason during a pandemic.
I’m eating breakfast. I’m great.
I’m not into this timeline narrative. Since we are maxing out De’ Aaron and building around him shouldn’t we want the best talent around him regardless of the age? I guess they don’t think there’s enough talent at the moment to warrant keeping a guy like Bogi. I would have matched since I am much more a Bogi guy then a Buddy guy but that’s my opinion. Still bullish that the front office can build a solid team in the future my confidence in them hasn’t waned as of yet.
Imagine trying to build a team and paying $75m per for BogBarnBudCoJo.
Honestly though, the Kings can’t do better in FA. Try to imagine building a team like that period.
Assembling awful teams by handing out bad contracts year after year can rub prospective free agents the wrong way if they have multiple destinations to chose from. That’s how you wind up with RondoBelliKK, CoJoBarnBud, ZacGeoVince, etc
One of those things was really not like the others though – Barnes, Buddy and Joseph are marginal to significant overpays.
I guess I don’t really get what McNair is attempting to do here, but then again – I didn’t really listen to his recent interviews so I may have missed his bigger-picture philosophy for this roster.
If he’s trying to tank, it seems he missed a window of opportunity when there was a ridiculous amount of trade/FA activity happening in the league. If he’s trying to win, he just let one of his best rostered players go.
Dunno, we’ll see what’s next. It feels like another 30 to 35 win team though, and a mid-lottery first rounder. Hope I’m wrong.
Well we were on a 35 win pace last year with Bogi, so if we’re going to have the same kind of season either way I guess I’ll try to find a better use for $72 million.
So many non sequiturs, so little time.
Losing him costs us wins. That’s a fact. I expect that a jump from Fox, and Buddy getting back to form a bit (i.e, Coach Walton getting his ears pinned back) will get us more wins.
Bogi is likely the most useful of the bunch, but that is still the turd sandwich that Monty inherited from Vlade. You can’t win crap or build well with those four on the roster at that salary.
Monty is tasked with shedding them all, Bogi being the 1st casualty. We shall see how and when he is able to shed the rest.
So…if he were to shed them all without gaining any assets back, that would be a successful start?
No, but that hasn’t happened. He tried to get assets back for Bogi and it didn’t work out.
Not ideal, but neither would be getting strapped with another larger contract for a player who isn’t really part of the future. Bogi could get hurt and then you are stuck. He is 28, has more basketball mileage than most players his age, and has nagging injuries all the time.
Getting nothing back for him was not ideal and neither was keeping him. One is an unknown risk and the other is a known loss. He chose the later.
We shall see what he can conjure from Buddy/Barnes/CoJo.
100% agree on this. What makes me not hate this decision by Mcnair is the fact that we are going into a true rebuild and there is no perfect time to do it but now. Next years draft class is LOADED and I can argue its as loaded as the 2018 draft class or even more.
Financial wise there is no reason for us to be over or near the cap since this is a developmental year for the team. Mcnair is doing a solid to ownership on this one with the pandemic and all.
If you pair Fox, Haliburton, Bagley and 1 of Cade Cunningham, Jalen Green, Brandon Boston or Jonathan Kuminga then we truly have a foundation to build upon. Plus without tying too much money on role players Mcnair can easily target complimentary pieces to our core and that is something I can get behind 100%!
I don’t buy the formulation that choosing not to re-sign a free agent means losing them for nothing. There is always an opportunity cost to how an nba team uses its cap space. Unless you believe signing Carmelo Anthony to a supermax would be acquiring a veteran for nothing because the only outgoing asset is long term cap space, you can’t really make the inverse argument about losing a free agent for nothing.
$72mil is 7 Richaun Holmes deals. We can argue whether Bogi has 7x the value of Holmes, but the point is just that we didn’t lose Bogi for nothing, we lost him for crucial financial flexibility. Let’s say we use that space to absorb Gary Harris and a late first next offseason. That’d be about as good of a return as we’d expect in a S&T with $50m+ in savings still to play with.
You can make that argument when the Kings have zero record of ever using cap space effectively. In Sacramento, cap space is worthless.
I’m not really a big fan lumping multiple GMs and owners together by just saying Sacramento. It’s like a woman saying you’ll be bad at sex because all her previous boyfriends were.
And in this case “GM’s” is a term used loosely. We only have a 1 week window into how McNair handles the cap. We had 7+ years of multiple “GM’s” poorly managing the cap; i.e. over paying, bidding against themselves, horrible signs to bad fits
I don’t think that strapping the organization’s decades of incompetence onto the back of a guy who’s been here about two months is a good way to see things objectively.
So why not max Carmelo next offseason? He’s better than Daquan Jeffries. If cap space is worthless we might as well grab him.
Would that be a fair value deal for Carmelo?
That’s a different question than whether In Sacramento, cap space is worthless is a true claim that we should used to inform our decision making.
Analyzing whether Bogi is worth $72mil is reasonable and constructive. All the reporting indicates the front office took that question seriously, but only time will tell. Lord knows he wouldn’t be the first overpaid player in the NBA if it breaks the wrong way.
Pretending that $72mil of future cap space can’t possibly be an asset is silly, which is why I made that argument rather than saying Bogi is definitely a good or bad value at the price.
There are legitimate reasons why not matching Bogi’s deal may be the wrong decision but this isn’t one of them. “Cap space is always worthless in Sacramento” assumes this FO is just as incompetent as all the other for the last decade plus. Given the way they handled the draft, I am not sure that’s the case. Time will tell but I’m not there yet.
Losing Bogi didn’t really give us much additional financial flexibility though. And if Bogi performed to his potential, you’d have a nice trade asset later in the season.
The pessimist view is if Bogi gets hurt or doesnt perform the team is saddled with his contract and would be lucky to get pennies on the dollar return in a trade.
There’s a good reason not to sign or draft anyone, ever right? And Bogi appeared in more games than Fox last season, but that didn’t prevent us maxing him out.
Youre absolutely right there is an argument that can be made to either sign and see what you can flip him for or let him go.
The pessimist answer to Bogi playing more than Fox is Fox is younger and has slightly more room to grow as a player.
Im not saying anyone here is wrong in wanting to get assets for Bogi would have been the best thing for this team. In fact there was the failed S&T which is why we are discussing this all. I havent had a chance to read the bleacher report run down on why the S&T went south but its apparently a good read.
My opinion is that the failed S&T painted the Kings into a corner. The Kings had no leverage until the season begins if they matched.
And here is said article with at least one side of the story
Inside the Botched Sign-and-Trade Clouding Giannis' Future
You guys see the last thing buddy liked on Twitter? He’s starting to move into Spenser Hawes category for me.
That’s about where he’s at for me after his comments about the fans. It’s a shame we won’t be able to boo him in person this year.
First post on the new site, but been following everyone on this site (and the old ones) for years. First of all, super impressed by what everyone has been able to accomplish in basically 8 months time. Amazing feat!
On Bogi, cut him loose. I think he has a negative contract to value after that trade kicker and if he’s dictating his spot, then you’re taking back salary. It sucks, but giving more PT to Tyrese here and avoiding a Buddy-Bogi-Battle is the way to go.
Not to mention, Bogi has been legitimately dinged up the last few years. Yeah, that may be from international play (which is shelved this year), but he also may have some serious miles on those knees. It’s easy to say Trade him for expirings and a late first, when he’s producing (which also wasn’t great last year- FIBA Bogi has some staying power!). There is a chance that he is hurt at some point (hope not) and that contract is a John wall-esque anchor around your neck. Bird in the hand and all that. I think you deal with the fires in front of you (buddy and Barnes) and play with that cap space another day.
Good point abt all the summer ball that Bogi played…made me nuts. I hope he plays every summer in Atlanta and then plays more meaningless games on Hawks off-days.
Two good things about the way this is looking:
1) It looks like McNair’s decision, not Vivek’s? (question mark always necessary here)
2) Walton only plays veterans: Best solution? Trade all the veterans. No veterans for you.
They should do a contest where if you hit a half-court shot at halftime, instead of getting money, you get to start the second half.
The more decisions taken out of Lose Walton’s hands, the better.
Let me the first or one of the first to say that that I haven’t watched a ton of Hassan Whiteside games lately but…
In order to run you must first get a stop and a rebound right? Whiteside is a good rebounder right?
I realize that he doesn’t exactly fit the model of young but he does have length and can block shots too.
While we may not get a ton of wins in the short term my guess is the Kings ( Luke Walton aside) will embrace the fast break under the guidance of our new Assistant coach. In order to do that we must get rebounds in order to start the fast break. Whiteside can do that and again he also can block shots.
Again I realize the best free agents are gone. Hell even the good, mediocre, and most of the bad free agents are gone. Who is left? Whiteside and he could help.
Could I be wrong? It wouldn’t be the first or last time I would be. ðð¤£
It also could very well be that this is all just a rumor or he signs elsewhere but count me in as one that is hoping he signs here so the Kings can get the running game going.
Will we give up a lot of points? Probably but we were very likely to score a ton of points too and that could be very fun to watch while losing what is likely to be a lot of games.
So yeah again I may be wrong but given the state of what is left count me in to the hoping we sign Hassan Whiteside camp. I do prefer a one year deal but we do need at least another big and there aren’t many left that can help where we need it most. Hell there aren’t many quality players of any type left.
I do hope we also take a flyer on another project who has potential too.
Nothing like watching a good plan get executed poorly.
Here’s to you Monty!
At least it’s significantly better then watching a bad plan get executed poorly. #theVladfather
Letting Bogi walk just means Hali is going to have a rookie impact like Fox did. And Buddy is going to have a career year.
It is just sad we could have have DeVicnenzo or maybe Capella in a S&T and we got nothing but “precious” cap space.
The only explanation is when McNair spoke about flexibility as a priority, he meant it. What will thay flexibility amount to is the real question, I know Sacramento has not had luck with free agents, but what if that contract Bogi received became someone Kelly Oubre next year at that price, along with a top 5 pick; that is a roster to attempt to compete with. So the flexibility would need to be worth more than Bogi.
I see Bjelica as a member of the Orlando Magic. They need spacing. Gordon and Bjelica can be on the court together.
Bjelica for Bamba and a 2nd round pick? Does Bamba have any potential to become a stretch 5 still? What is a reasonable value for Bjelica at this point in time?
He just signed a max deal yesterday, but even without it, Bjelica and a second-rounder for one of the most promising young players in the league?
The might be in Orlando, but that doesn’t mean the GM is Mickey Mouse.
Max deal was Bam…not Bamba. Vlade would have signed Bamba to the max, but not Orlando.
I know that this is the right attitude, and I’m sorry for being such a pessimist, but it’s tough not to feel like this is just more of the same. Another decision the Kings made contrary to popular opinion that, while not franchise destroying, when aggregated with all of the other non-franchise destroying bad decisions, destroys the franchise.
I feel like the consensus reasoning for tanking around here is that it is the only way to become a championship contender. We’re a team that hasn’t reached the playoffs in 15 years contemplating how to best build a sustainable championship caliber team. It’s hard for me not to feel like we’re tilting at windmills here.
The Kings are two years removed from being a legitimate playoff contender. Honestly, with one to two competent decisions (Luka over Bagley, Joeger over Walton) that squad was a perennial high seed playoff contender. More importantly, they were, for the first time in a very long while, fun to watch and exceedingly likable. Bogi was a large part of that competitiveness, watchability, and likability.
But here we are, again, talking about the proper way to build a championship squad, tearing it all down to build it back up the right way. I’m sorry, but I’ve seen this path before, and do not look forward to three years from now when fans are furious, De’Aaron wants out, ownership is panicking, and new GM Joe Dumars trades all our young assets for that year’s equivalent of Russel Westbrook. I’d love for this not to feel so inevitable, but as a Kings fan, it does.
I know that you’re right, Greg. This is not the end of the world. This is not an inexplicable move by an incompetent GM. But it does represent the end of possibly my favorite Kings team in the past fifteen years, and the recognition that we’re, at the very best, headed into several more seasons of sucktitude. And for me, it’s tough not to feel shitty about that direction.
So long Bogi, I don’t blame you.
This team was fun to watch two seasons ago. This past season was pretty far removed from fun.
Hard to reset/rebuild something that isn’t there. This is more of a wreckage cleanup.
Losing assets under your control for nothing is not an event a small market team with a losing record can afford to do. This is a big miss. This puts the Kings in full rebuild and tank mode. I just am looking forward to seeing Fox/Tyrese build some chemistry this year. This is going to be a painful season I’m afraid.
See? This guy gets it!
Now that the Kings have all that cap space by not signing Bogi…oh wait.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1331628971805564931
You want flexibility, Monte? Hield for Batum + CHA 2021 1st.
I like the fact that this is realistic and serves to solve two problems at once.
I used to love Batum back in the day, he just did so many things that helped a team. He can hang out with Parker for a year.
Yeah, Peak Batum would be the perfect addition to this team. Now he’s mostly just a big expiring that can hopefully fill some minutes until the trade deadline.
I’m happy we’re only stuck with two bad contracts, not three*.
*I say three because the jury is still out on Fox’s contract.
Good article Greg, pretty much what I think some of us have argued about matching Bogi.
This is a move that can’t be taken by itself. McNair is cleaning up Vlade’s mess and isn’t done. This roster is at best a 40 win team with Bogi. Making other changes and keeping Bogi might’ve helped it get better than that, but McNair’s job isn’t to just make the playoffs but to compete in said playoffs. The Kings have never really tanked, it’s always been “make the 8th seed” and when that doesn’t look possible near the all star break that’s when the loosing begins which doesn’t work. We had several FA’s leave that look like didn’t fit with McNair’s plan going forward. Giles is the one I’d argue we could’ve taken a 1 year flier on, but I think that bridge was burned before McNair even got here. I liked them and wished we had kept some of them, but none of them moved the needle a lot to really make this team that much better. They were backups at best. Some of them probably didn’t want to be here any more either, and no sense keeping them if they didn’t want to be here when we have young players to try and develop. Not the Kings strongest area, but maybe it’ll work better now with the coaching team being assembled.
Yes, I wish we could’ve gotten something for Bogi. But we didn’t. From reports it sounds like neither Buddy nor Bogi really have even a decent trade value currently, only lower end scraps from teams which is how we got to the current roster anyway with Vlade. In today’s NBA though Buddy is way more valuable overall as he can be a light’s out specialized shooter and has proven that already when utilized properly. Hopefully Walton can get some brain cells (or other coaches have influence) to use Buddy in a productive way again to rebuild some value for him if the plan is to trade him eventually. Bogi is good, but more people are able to replicate what Bogi can bring to a team than Buddy’s shooting. Did Bogi want to be here too? We don’t know for sure, but I don’t think he did behind the scenes. Yes he was fine publicly, but if we have matched would that have continued or would we have 2 upset guards to choose to keep happy?
Also, the financial aspect of the team. Paying 2 guards and a forward nearly 80m a year when they don’t significantly make a team better doesn’t make sense for improving the team. Could a trade have been worked out down the road if we had matched? Maybe, it might’ve made it easier to swallow Bogi leaving. But that is what Vlade would’ve done, and that’s how we have the team we have currently. The Kings could make it work, but it doesn’t improve the team overall and we’d be stuck at 40 wins again, lamenting that we didn’t make the playoffs yet again but don’t have a team that is bad enough for the high lottery. Just because we could make it work under the cap doesn’t mean we should’ve only to possibly make a trade later, that maybe happens or doesn’t. Then we’d be stuck with 3 players taking up most of the salary who combined don’t really make the team better.
Yes, next year is probably not going to get a lot of wins. But we already knew that, or should’ve. The West is brutally tough, and this team even with Bogi as stands wouldn’t have made the playoffs. There are more moves to make to fix what needs to be fixed. This isn’t the best outcome, but it’s the start of a plan if McNair is allowed to do what he was hired to do. I want to do more than compete for the bottom seeds in a playoff because that just means we’d probably get swept by the 1 or 2 seed. Is that our expectations? Yay, made it to play four more games and get destroyed? McNair has been on the job what, 2-3 months? This isn’t going to be fixed in 1 offseason, probably not even 2. Let’s see what happens by the all star break and go from there to really start judging how McNair is doing, because he was gifted this move by Vlade with little in the way of either decision helping the team really improve.
Nice pic, Greg. Everything’s just a little bit better with bacon?
Those who are defending this move are under the presumption that once we had Bogi and Buddy under contract, they are immovable, untradeable assets. I was not operating under that presumption , and no one knows for sure.
Bogi sub 40% from 3, oft-injured, 28 years od not 25 years, not a fast break player, these variables supressed his market value. I will defer to the front office with regard to whether they felt he would have been tradeable sometime next year.
Reluctantly and begrudgingly , I will accept their perception that to match on Bogi would mean there was a better chance than not that would be stuck with him. That is the only way I can justify this move.
And just for those applauding this move, on the nights Fox was not on, Bogi was OFTEN our best player on the floor. OUR BEST PLAYER. And anyone with two eyes could see this.
So we are on the path to respectability by shedding our best player for nothing? That takes some mental gymnastics. It means Hali and Bagley are going to have to go from nothing to something special, otherwise, it is another losy season pending.
The only thing that appeared to suppress Bogi’s market value was his RFA status. Plenty of (good) basketball teams were interested.
I don’t think people are arguing they were untradable, but that as it stands today right now the returns either of them (or Barnes) would get are not worth the trade itself in making the team overall better. Down the line, sure something might develop. But there’s no way to know that what teams offer down the line would be any better than the offers could’ve been right now.
I wish Bogi the best, but he was replaceable in the long run.
I am upset in the fact that the Kings lost a key asset for nothing ! The actual ticket buying public will not understand or tolerate another rebuild from a rebuild ! Hope to be proven wrong but anticipate major financial issues due to pandemic and loss of long term ticket and suite monies !
There is no ticket buying public this season.
I don’t think this is an actual tank, but if they are going to really, truly suck (which is what a Pacific-oriented, all Western Conference schedule may result in anyways) I’d vastly prefer it happen in a season when my season tickets are being deferred.
So right now the Kings starting line up is: Fox, Hield, backcourt, Barnes at the 3, Bagley and Holmes at 4 and 5. with Haliburton and Nemenja coming off the bench. Other rotation players TBD. Could that team finish 10th in the Western Conference and play in to the 7th or 8th spot? If they all buy in, play with pace and steal some games (especially in the play in) why not? In other words, not necessarily a tanking team. Alex Caruso of the world champion Lakers might not even crack the King’s rotation.
This is where I’m at:
Not to keep looking back at the “glory days” because Jesus, that’s tedious, but if we were to examine the best Kings team in the Sacramento Era (the only real great one, to be exact), the one thing that sticks out to me is that the most significant and impactful roster moves that Petrie ever made were trades. Sure, he had a great run with the draft, picking up the likes of Peja, J-Will, Turkoglu, etc., and yes, there were key free agent pick-ups in the likes of Bobby Jackson and Brad Miller along the way, but even the Miller signing was in fact a sign-and-trade that required Petrie to have assets to get that deal done. And he did. Pretty much every time. The majority of Petrie’s major transaction came down to swapping one or more assets for players that we’re either better fits, out and out upgrades, or both.
Obviously, the biggest move in the Sacramento era was the trade for Webber. Yes, having Peja finally come over from Europe and picking J-Will at 7 in the 98 draft and signing Vlade were all significant, but Webber was the unquestioned centerpiece of that team in 99 and the years to follow;
Tariq Abdul-Wahad, a 1997 Petrie selection, along with a future first round pick, became Nick Anderson, who was part of the deal that turned J-Will into Mike Bibby. Corliss Williamson, even earlier Petrie selection, became Doug Christie.
There’s always a lot of talk about how teams like the Kings in small markets have to build through the draft, and yes, it’s paramount for franchises like this one to hit on their picks, especially those high in the lottery–
*cough* Luka Donic *cough* *cough*…
Excuse me.
But what’s become painfully obvious in the Vivek era is how equally important it is for a small market team to properly evaluate and manage those assets. It’s fine if a player, even a good one, doesn’t fit into your current plans or future timeline or whatever, but the reality is, in a market such as this where you have to consistently over-pay for even midlevel talent, letting assets walk in an effort to maintain “cap flexibility” has been shown to be a losing strategy. Simply put, I have serious doubts that the 18 million dollars that Bogi would have eaten up is eventually going to fetch value that is greater than or even equal to what Bogi could have brought back in a trade, or even Bogi the player for that matter.
Perhaps the most concerning aspect of this non-move is the still murky nature of the reasoning behind it. Sure, we’ve heard McNair wants to maintain “cap flexibility” (which I maintain should always be in quotes until the Kings do something meaningful with it), and we know that Bogi, at his age, doesn’t fit the Fox timeline, but I do have questions about the financial situation of this organization and how that ties into the ever-present Vivek cloud that has hung over each iteration of the front office since he took over.
Obviously it’s way too early in his tenure for this to be some sort of indictment of McNair, and hopefully, as things play out, moves will be made that will make all of this seem inconsequential, but for now, it does seem like McNair (and of course Vivek) are content with making the same mistakes of front offices past.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
TLDR; In a market like Sacramento where cap space is considerably less valuable than elsewhere due to the difficulty of signing quality free agents at fair market value, trades, even more so than drafts, have historically been the primary mechanism in which a team like the Kings can become competitive; and you can’t make trades if you let your assets walk out the door for nothing.
Also TLDR; Bad asset management is bad.
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