The Sacramento Kings continue to be linked to Atlanta Hawks forward John Collins as trade rumors swirl before tomorrows NBA Draft. Collins and the Kings have been rumored as far back as the trade deadline, and again within the last few days.
As the draft nears, the rumors continue to be repeated, with Harrison Barnes often connected to the rumors.
The Hawks are weighing a variety of scenarios as they pursue a John Collins trade in connection with Thursday's draft, with a deal headlined by Collins and Sacramento's Harrison Barnes among Atlanta's prime options, league sources say.
More of my latest: https://t.co/Yn653jeanI https://t.co/BrUbbcmsew
— Marc Stein (@TheSteinLine) June 23, 2022
The good news is that the rumors consistently clarify that the Kings would not give up the 4th pick in a Collins deal. The most likely structure seems to be Harrison Barnes and a smaller asset, possibly a future first round pick with protections.
Some have questioned the fit with Collins and Sabonis, but I think the fit could work.
Neither is a backstop-style shot blocker, and neither player is likely to make an All-Defense team any time soon, but there is still a certain synergy to their games. In his brief post-trade tenure in Sacramento, we saw Sabonis successfully body up opposing big men. He may not stop them, but he slows them down. Collins is an opportunistic help blocker, who could swoop in to assist and protect the rim.
The offensive fit makes sense as well. Collins is a decent enough shooter to provide some spacing. He shot 36.4% from beyond the arc last season, and is a career 37.6% three point shooter. The three point shooting would be a downgrade from Harrison Barnes, but Collins would provide a rim-running threat that Barnes did not. If the offense is running through Sabonis in the high post, Collins would provide a huge lob target.
While the fit on paper may not be perfect, there’s also the question of opportunity. If the Kings can turn Barnes into Collins, that’s a good opportunity. And while there may be players who seem like a more natural fit, the Kings may not have a realistic opportunity to sign or trade for those players. Besides, on paper Myles Turner was a perfect fit alongside Sabonis, and it still didn’t work. Holding off on adding talent simply because the fit isn’t perfect on paper is a luxury the Kings don’t have.
Barnes is 30 years old and in the final year of his contract. Collins will be 25 this season, fitting the timeline of Fox and Sabonis, and is under contract for three more years, followed by a player options. It’s a long term deal at a reasonable price for a player who is proven, productive, and fits the timeline of the Kings core.
We’ll see what happens in the next 24 hours, as most people believe Collins will be traded before or during the Draft. But if the Kings do trade for Collins, I’d be excited.
Depends on price, but I like the gamble. He’s young enough that if it doesn’t work in 2 years, you can still trade him for something good, I think.
If the Kangz include the 4th pick, I think that’s the equivalent of a Luka blunder. And I expect nothing less.
They reportedly won’t trade #4 for Collins.
It’s been reported a ton that the 4th pick is not included in Collin’s trade discussions.
Trading Barnes for Collins would be fine if 1 of the top 3 bigs doesn’t fall to #4, but I wouldn’t want to do the trade if 1 of them is available at #4.
The Kings should trade Barnes for Collins every day of the week and twice on Sunday. This affinity with Barnes who was obtained for virtually nothing and has never contributed to winning is perplexing. If you want things to change you’ve have to change the characters that have produced our dismal record and one of those is Barnes.
Barnes should be your fourth or fifth best player, not top three like he has been on the Kings. That’s not a role he is suited for. So I agree, I don’t get a lot of fan’s fixation with him.
Agree. I love Barnes but everything in this article is spot on. Do this deal Monte!
Trading Barnes is fine, but trading for Collins wouldn’t make sense if the Kings draft Jabari, Paolo or Chet.
Trading Barnes is fine, but trading for Collins wouldn’t make sense if the Kings draft Jabari, Paolo or Chet.
Don’t love the fit. I’d prefer a guy like Jonathan Isaac or Chet next to Sabonis. Keegan Murray seems similar to Collins and could be had for less.
While I’d rather have Chet than Collins if Chet falls, I’d much rather have Collins than Isaac. Although Murray seems like he’d be better as a PF, I wonder if Murray could be good as a SF. If so, he could play w/Collins & Sabonis.
Ive personally come around to the opinion that the way to optimize having the 4th pick is to trade up with OKC for Chet/Jabari. Both those guys have franchise-altering ceilings, fairly high floors, and positionally fit perfectly with Fox-Sabonis, all on a rookie contract. It’s a win now and later move.
Murray doesn’t have a high enough ceiling, Ivey doesn’t fit and could bust, nobody wants the pay the price to move up to #4, then fine – let’s solve our problems by leveraging our lottery luck into a franchise cornerstone.
What’s more, if OKC doesn’t see a significant difference in the top 4 players, then #2 for #4 might even end up being relatively cheap. It could cost as little as next year’s first rounder. That’d leave us with all our other trade assets and cap flexibility to find a couple good wings in FA/trade. TJ Warren, Anunoby, maybe even Wiggins in some crazy deal could happen. That’s a long, athletic, switchable, two-way lineup with shooters.
I have the same thought. Go get Chet.
Not sure OKC will trade and if Monte goes other way I trust that. But I hope he’s attempting to move up.
I’m not sure if trading up to get Jabari or Chet would be worth the cost (though I’d be more concerned about Chet than Jabari).
And you don’t think Holmgren can be a bust?
He absolutely could play sf at times, but even when he didn’t there are still 15-20 min at pf for him. Another 10-15 at sf when we go big? Easy to do.
Yes. Positionless basketball.
Domas
Collins
Murray
DDV
Fox
Mitchell, Holmes, lyles as primary backups.
John Collins is what we would expect Keegan Murray to be best case Scenerio in 2 years, getting him for Barnes, an overrated 30 year old expiring contract for a true Power forward in his prime would be ridiculously a win we’d surely have to include something else. Coming away with John Collins and Jaden Ivey tommorrow would absolutely expectacular.
1- Fox
2- Ivey
3- Donte D
4- Collins
5- Sabonis
This is a 40+ win Team easy..
I think there’s a good chance that Murray will be better than Collins. That starting lineup w/Ivey wouldn’t have enough shooting IMO & I’d worry about the perimeter defense.
I actually don’t get the hype around Murray, who at peak will be a less athletic slightly taller Barnes. Collins is night and day more athletic and at least brings more vertical game on blocks and lobs that Barnes never had on his best day.
I think there’s a good chance that Murray will be better than Barnes. Murray’s really skilled. I don’t think Ivey’s likely to live up to the hype since I think he’ll need to improve a lot of his skills to live up to the hype. I think Murray will likely be better than Ivey.
Get Collins and draft Murray.
Fox
Donte
Murray
Collins
Sabonis
That’s a better more balanced lineup and depth with Davion and TD still available for guard and wing depth
Isn’t Murray better suited at the 4?
I’d rather draft Ivey. He has superstar potential. Fit shouldn’t matter for a bottom dweller like the Kings. Fox has shown us he isn’t going to lead us anywhere.
That’s right. Blow it up. Bring in some exciting, athletic players, shooters, and defensive specialists. Davion can lead the point fine while Ivey quickly develops into a larger Donovan Mitchell/Ja Morant. Get rid of Fox, Barnes, and prob Holmes. Start fresh w/hope.
Ivey isn’t as good of a playmaker as Ja, so he won’t be a larger Ja.
You have the right idea but unfortunately Kings management doesn’t appear to be heading in that direction. When you’re team has a dismal record,like the Kings, you need to change the characters who have contributed to the failure. Barnes, Fox, and Holmes need to go IMO but I doubt it happens.
I think Murray will likely be better than Ivey, so I’d draft Murray based on talent, not fit (though that’d be a bonus).
Donte Div may not be a King at all next season, and he is not a starting SF in any case.
I think at best Barnes brings you a late first but having said that Atlanta appears ready to move on from Collins and Barnes could be enough to snatch Collins. Let’s not kid ourselves however, just adding Collins and a draft pick who will take some time to develop will not produce a plus 40 win team.
DiVincenzo is probably better suited as a bench player, and Collins for Barnes is probably a wash next season, so any actual improvement depends entirely on Ivey. And you’re extremely undersized at the wing. I have the team high 30s as constructed, so yes, a couple game improvement might make them a 40 win team. But unless Ivey turns into a star, they’re still a team that can’t shoot and is easy to defend.
Add Collins and Murray, we got something.
Do not trade Harrison Barnes. Trade the pick for a true 4 that pairs well with HB.
A true 4? Just draft Murray.
Lol. This comment made my day, Adam.
there is simple and there is more complex. Simple: draft Ivey or Murray (real simple)
but simple belies the opportunity to leverage the #4.
Complex- get Collins, play cute with Detroit and get Murray at #5and a Detroit asset but once Detroit got rid of Grant, do they still want Ivey?
Complex- Get Collins, trade to #6, lose out on Ivey and Murray, take Daniels and get a Pacer asset. In this way, have SF and PF covered plus something from Pacers.
Barnes and Murray or Collins and Ivey? I was going to promote the former, but the more I looked at it, I prefer the latter. Can’t wait for tomorrow.
Collins & Murray might be the best option.
Barnes and Murray. Long wings are at a premium and you don’t tie up cap space. Collins and Ivey leave you a gaping hole at SF… unless you plan on trotting an undersized Holiday out there with Harkless as his backup.
With Barnes and Murray, you don’t have a true shot creator. Both can try to play bully ball to get to the rim, but I don’t think it’s pretty, or effective enough of the time.
With Ivey you have a guy that can break down defenses, which creates open shots for others. Seems more of a balanced and versatile option.
Ivey will need to develop his skills to become a shot creator. That may not happen. The lack of spacing provided by Fox & Sabonis will hinder Ivey.
Murray’s ceiling may or may not be as high as Ivey’s ceiling, but I think the most likely outcome is that Murray will be better than Ivey. It certainly seems like his size, offensive & defensive skills will make him more versatile than Ivey. Murray’s shooting would complement Fox & Sabonis well.
Colins and Ivey and hope we can get a decent 3 in free agency. I saw Otto Porter mentioned on twitter. That would be underwhelming but decent on a 1 year deal.
No doubt Monty and crew are in the weeds on all this, but looking at the numbers and injury history (avg. 55 games per the last 3 years) is Collins a slightly bigger and slightly more skilled, but slightly less athletic and a slightly older version of Marvin Bagley? Granted none of the team bagley baggage with Collins, but why did things not work out in Atlanta after he signed the new contract? Seems like Atlanta has been on and off trying to move him for a few years.
What is interesting is that people are rightfully critical about guys like Collins and Brogdon averaging less than 60 games over the last 3 seasons, but fail to mention that our max contract guy has averaged only 56 games over the last 3 seasons…
Or we could just fail to mention that he just flat out sat the last 10-12 in each of the last 2 seasons for tanking purposes…that too is “interesting”.
With the vague reporting about Fox’s ankle situation, the benefit of him getting court time with Sabonis and the slim margin for missing out on the coveted play-in, I wonder if it’s that easy to just explain it away as sitting him for tanking purposes.
The numbers are what they are, and I don’t think it is strange to place question marks at Fox’s durability over the course of a season.
Fox boys look for every excuse for Fox, never any accountability. Reminds me of fans that were big Cousin’s fans, constant excuses for the big man with no accountability.
It absolutely is strange in my mind.
Three years ago he missed 15 games early due to sprained ankle. Only sustained injury moss in 3 years. Played rest of year.
2 years ago he missed one game in first 60 before he was sat down the last 10-12.
Last year he had a 4 game COVId protocol stretch and an 8 game middle of season ankle injury. Then he sat last 10-12 which I think almost all of us believe he would have been back for most of those with the “mysterious hand injury”.
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/kings/deaaron-fox-details-how-giannis-antetokounmpos-strength-caused-hand-injury?amp
As pointed out two of those seasons only 72 games. So sure the numbers “are what they are” but if you remove Covid protocols and end of the season sitting (even just 8 of those each season) and give him 20 games back he is playing around 85% of teams games, over 3 seasons. Hardly makes durability seem like a question in my mind
And now do Collins and Brogdon?
They get scrutinized for such numbers, in the same 72-game seasons. That’s my point.
If they have the same similar circumstances (They don’t exactly, especially Brogdan) as Fox’s absences then it too is a stupid criticism. That’s my point.
If Kings were playing for playoffs each year and playing out seasons (lol), I think it’s very realistic to think Fox plays
53/72
71/72 (Play out season)
71/82 (Play out season and no covid)
The remaining games are games he missed due to injury and scheduled games off. I guess you can make your own conclusions on what constitutes as “durable” based on the data.
Your point also wasn’t just that they get scrutinized, for similar numbers it’s that you agreed with it and threw Fox in the same group. I just think it was a lazy and unsubstantiated argument that he isn’t durable, based on raw numbers and not considering any context.
Draft day, more fun things to discuss. Moving on.
and that there were only 72 games in the 2020/21 season to start with that LOTS of players missed more games due to covid protocols.
What is interesting is that people are rightfully critical about guys like Collins and Brogdon averaging less than 60 games over the last 3 seasons, but fail to mention that our max contract guy has averaged only 56 games over the last 3 seasons…
Epic comment Smits!
Which is another reason why to move Fox. You can’t have a max player on your roster underperforming his contract and not be willing to exceed the salary cap and then expect to build a winning roster.
I’m sure he would be absolutely thrilled to be here.
That doesn’t entirely matter while he’s under contract.
Who cares if he’s thrilled to be here, he’s under contract.
Philly really wants out from Tobias contract to compete immediately with PJ tucker and whomever else they can get. The rumor is they are now willing to throw in Thybulle and pick 23…. I’m listening for sure.
Holmes and Barnes work for Harris, Thybulle and the pick.
Still draft Murray because of forward depth and shooting.
Fox, Donte, Thybulle, Harris, Sabonis
Davion, TD, Murray.
That 8 man rotation is getting it done plus you still have the MLE.
Only 2 years left and by the time a repeater tax would hit Harris contract falls off the books and you are fine financially.
this is a richer package than Collins
The floor spacing would be terrible. Murray or Harris would have to start at the 3.
I still feel Ivey is the better pick even with this trade. Everyone is too concerned with fit now instead of better overall talent.
Murray’s superior 3PT shooting would provide better spacing than Ivey.
I like this trade idea. But if you are getting Tobias and his contract, makes it likelier that the #4 pick gets traded as you are all in on winning now. The same could be said I suppose if we trade for Collins. I think Monte has deals in place for the pick and it’ll be a last minute thing to see which players are available at 4.
Let’s see, we have Fox who’s underplaying his contract then you want to add a player like Tobias who is also underperforming his contract. Add that to the fact management has no desire to exceed the salary cap and you expect to win with that formula.
Blazers seem to think the 7th can get them og anunoby. Time to cut in line and trade the 4th for anunoby, if that’s all it takes. Then kings need to trade Barnes and whatever expirings to take on Gordon haywards bad contract and their two picks. Dangle Holmes and see if they want him as an upgrade over plumlee. Or trade Barnes for huerter or collins. See what else is needed for that 16.
4 much more valuable and we could send back valuable late 20s vets.
4, Barnes, Holmes for OG, Gary Trent Jr and ’23 1st lottery protected? Still leaves us thin at forward.
Maybe s&t Donte and our ’23 1st for Collins still?
Fox, Davion
GTJ, TD
OG
Collins
Sabonis.
Definite playoff team.
Maybe that package might be something the raps listen to. No way a sign and trade of divincenzo could get Collins. Hawks are trying to trade him to offload his large contract. 2023 first and expirings maybe?
I like the overarching ideas though. Kings really need a big face lift.
Trading #4 for Anunoby would be a massive overpay & a major mistake. Trading 1 of Charlotte’s picks & another asset for Anunoby would make a lot more sense.
Yes
He is younger, is a good fit at the 4, better rebounder and shot blocker, contract close.
That said, don’t include the #4.
and if this goes down, it poses a problem with the Murray fit. Kings do want Murray
If Collins comes to Sac (for Barnes and it better not be any future pick, protected or not), it may be better to get Ivey at 4, straight up.
If Collins does not get traded to Sac, it is possible to play “just a little bit cute” with Detroit to induce them to give up something to move up a slot to get Ivey if Kings still want Murray. On the other hand, if Collins comes, Kings could move to #6 which means that Ivey and Murray are gone and take Daniels for the SF spot and get something from Pacers- a protected first? to balance any first lost in the Collins deal?
As long as I keep reading some variation of “building a timeline around Fox,” I’ll keep puking.
This is why you can’t have nice things in Sactown. Nice guy, but Fox has had all the development time in the world and still hasn’t developed a consistent jumper or good defense, or the ability to consistently make others better OR to go the basket strong in crunch time or finish games in a smart and effective way. That’s a lot of fails.
As long as you’re building your team around a design flaw, expect to keep losing. In Haliburton, you had that magic piece that winning teams can flow grow and flow with, and you let him go again b/c of …. Fox. Draft Ivey. Trade Fox and Barnes and Holmes. Get Collins and another defensive piece/3 pt shooter. Let Davion run the show as Ivey quickly develops.
Be something in the general vicinity of fun again … for the love of Pete.
The Kings traded Hali to get Sabonis. I’m guessing they would’ve traded Fox if Indy had considered Fox an acceptable alternative to Hali. Ivey seems like a worse version of Fox to me, so Idk why you’d want draft him if you’re anti-Fox.
In a word, no. I’d rather focus on Murray.
I think Collins is obtainable for much less than one might think. Atlanta has made it clear they want to dump that contract and look elsewhere for assets surrounding Young. The question we have to ask is do we want to take on that Collins contract. He’s young, he is signed for several years and he’s shown he can score and protect the rim but he has been inconsistent and I don’t know if he’s the best culture guy in an organization like the Kings who badly need an improved culture. I wouldn’t be giving up future first round draft choices for him but maybe Holmes, TD and a couple of seconds might do it.
Every team that has been championship competitive has top 15-20 talent, so the Kings need to find a player or two that potentially is a top end league talent. Collins does not fit that profile. With that said, I think the Kings need to move Fox, perhaps to the Knicks that includes their 11th pick and a future first. There might also be a deal to be had with Portland who appears to have no appetite for a rebuild so maybe Barnes, Holmes, Metu and something else for Portlands number 7 and Josh Hart and another salary filler. Those are the types of moves the Kings need to entertain because the draft is the most likely area to find future upper end talent and trades that provide multiple bites at the apple is something I’d like to see.
Bottom line the Kings need to do more than just drafting Murray who I think is their primary target in this draft. So I’m expecting the Kings to walk away with Murray or IVey and another established asset and maybe some additional future draft capital. Anything less than that will be disappointing.
I thought Murray was Collins but without the massive overpay?
What about the other Murray being talked about today. If the Spurs are serious about shopping Dejounte Murray, he is the guy I would be going after. You could move Fox + #4 for Murray and still have the Barnes/Holiday package available to get Collins if they wanted. Murray/Mitchell/Collins/Sabonis sounds like a win now/young core to build around that Monte seems to want.
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