An interesting trade proposal came across our radar on Wednesday, as a Mavericks fans suggested the Kings trade Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley for the first overall pick and James Johnson.
https://twitter.com/TylerAtoms/status/1318958917498658826?s=20
Now, before we burn anything down, Johnson in this scenario is just salary filler and would presumably stay away from Sacramento lest his life be in danger (for those who may not remember, Johnson wore a Sonics hat in the locker room while he played for the Kings amid the relocation saga).
In response to this, Richard and I entered a spirited debate. Richard likes the trade proposal, I do not. We thought it would be fun to take this discussion into the public forum. I’ll let Richard make his case, and then I will respond with why he is incorrect.
Richard: This would obviously be a huge change for Sacramento. Personally, I think change is a good team for a team that has been so bad for so long. Bagley carries the baggage of the Luka pick and his constant injuries while Buddy clearly wants out after getting his robust payday. They aren’t bad players, but they aren’t great either. There is a chance for greatness with the No. 1 overall pick, and there is a guarantee of a fresh start. While we’re at it, let’s fire Walton and get a fresh new jersey design too. It’s a whole new Kings team. Younger, faster, and far more fun to root for.
Greg: In any other year I’d agree with you, Richard. But not this year. Not with a weak draft class, not with a predraft process that is in shambles. The odds of the first pick in this class being the best player are so remote. There’s a reason that the Timberwolves and the Warriors are both expected to trade down in this draft; nobody wants the risk. And not just the risk of a bust, but the cost that goes with that bust. The rookie scale means the number one pick is paid handsomely. When you factor in the talent you’re giving up in Buddy, Bagley’s remaining upside (if his health issues turn out to be a one-year fluke he has as much upside as anyone in this draft), and the fact that you’re paying a premium contract for a complete shot in the dark, I have zero interest in moving up in this year’s draft.
Richard: To be clear, you aren’t moving up in this year’s draft — you’re taking it over. We still keep pick No. 12 and all our future selections, not to mention likely improving our chances at Cade Cunningham in 2021. And $8.5 million is not a scary salary figure to me. Bagley will make more than that next year and Buddy will make almost triple.
But aside from those smaller points, the main argument Greg has made here is about bust potential. And I’m not nearly as worried about Anthony Edwards flopping than I am about Marvin Bagley. We have seen a good amount of Bagley already, and most of it has been concerning.
Just put yourself in Minnesota’s shoes for a minute. Let’s say Sacramento won the lottery. Would you trade the top pick for an injury-prone, undersized center who can’t shoot or defend and a 28-year-old guard on a $90 million contract who can shoot but do little else? I don’t think you would. The top pick is the prize here and taking Edwards is less risky than the Kings continuing to cling to what little they have.
Greg: If Bagley and Buddy are so bad, wouldn’t they help your Cade Cunningham odds more than a potentially talented first overall pick?
Richard and I have been debating the value of the first pick in this draft for weeks and I don’t expect us to solve the debate today. But we want to hear from you. Let us know in the comments who’s side you’re on, and send in your own trade ideas to Chainmail.
Nope.
Alright, a fight has broken out on TKH for me to watch!
?itemid=12413827
I don’t know where I stand on this, but I do love how spirited the debate has been since this morning.
I keep watching. Waiting for the Duck season shotgun blast.
Trade an injury prone third year player and an overpaid, unhappy shooting guard for a player who has a decent chance at becoming Fox’s 1A or 1B and will get paid at the rookie scale for the next four years?
Yes please.
Who do you take at #1?
Nobody. I flip it for a slightly later pick and take Haliburton or Avdija. Or flip it for a much later pick and a good future pick. Or flip it for a good player.
Wiseman. Hands down. Kid will be a beast.
Please keep your hands where we can see them.
ð¤£
It’s a great point. Wish I’d thought of it. We are friends.
I just read here that Fox is a 4A.
This is all so confusing.
The 1A/1B stuff is based on the Kings grading curve.
Which doesn’t grade lower than 1B or C, I assume?
I truly think that Marvin Bagley still has as much upside and potential for superstardom as anyone who the Kings could select with the first pick in this draft.
If you want to ship off a disgruntled Buddy to get equal value or potential, fine by me. I’m all for it. But leave Bagley out of it.
But if he has “as much upside and potential for superstardom” why wouldn’t you trade him in for another one with “as much” but with two more years of team control?
Bagley in his first year, had 32 points in 3 quarters. I am not sure if there is a player in this draft that could score 32 points in 3 quarters. Granted he has other flaws, but let say Bagley is in this draft. Where do you think he would be picked? I think top 3. Maybe even number 1.
Yeah, I’d say draft prospect Bagley would be in the conversation for 1. Which would mean that 2020 Bagley with two less years of team control and some injury issues would probably be a bit lower.
Didn’t Skal score like 30 points once?
Rookie Brandon Jennings scored 55!
Jennings was a chucker. Bagley clearly wasn’t. He shot 47%. He should have shot above 50%, but it was obvious he wasn’t Jennings. If Bagley shot sub 40% then you have a point.
Bagley scored 20+ points 12 times. He was double digit in rebounds 18 times. What did Skal do again?
What Skal did was get drafted 28th instead of 2nd to a team with Cousins and WCS, so he wasn’t force fed a ton of minutes. Take a look at their rate stats.
Skal hasn’t done anything on the Blazers either. Skal is nobody.
Because I personally don’t think anyone who we’d select with the 1st will be better than what Bagley will be. Call me hopeful, call me delusional. I’m just in the camp that is hesitant to diagnose Bagley as the injury-prone player he’s been labeled. Just a little bad luck to start off his career.
That’s fine. I think that’s a reasonable take. Personally, I think guys like Ball, Edwards, Wiseman, Okongwu, Avdija are pretty similar level prospects to Bagley, but the “flashes” they’ve shown are in skill areas that are more important to team success (playmaking and/or defense to keep it short). So I’d take the similar prospect with more team control.
Bagley is worse than a bust. He’s a Wiggins class franchise destroying nuke. With a bust you know they suck right away and cut your losses.
With Bagley, like a Wiggins you get some highlight plays and counting stats so you invest a ton of time, money, and PT into what will always be a net negative player.
Holding out and believing in a prospect because of his high draft status and no other reason has its downfalls.
Next season probably will determine how good Bagley is (he probably won’t be good).
I’m assuming you’re still looking at Bagley through the Luka paradigm. Yes, it sucks. Vlade blew it. We’re all mad about it. But it’s time to move on.
I’m not about to tell people how they should feel or whether they should “move on” or not. If people what to talk about Luka, that’s fine. I won’t spend much time on it because the Luka vs Bagley conversation is pretty much settled (now the draft class battle is more about whether Bagley can overtake guys like Mikal Bridges and DiVincenzo. Bagley has a few tiers to jump before he enters a Doncic debate again.) and the guy who made that pick is gone. But far be it from me to tell people what they can or should be focused on. Personally, I don’t think anybody can really be expected to move on from anything Kangz related until they at least put up a winning season.
Setting aside Doncic, I think the problem is that Bagley currently has not shown any skills that tangibly impact winning in a positive way. It’s why his advanced metrics are so bad when he does play. I think all the injuries have sort of masked that fact a little bit.
I wouldn’t. I still believe in Bagley for some reason. Its probably wishful thinking at this point but if he’s healthy, Bagley could still end up being the best player compared to this years #1 pick. And if he ends up being injured once again this coming season and misses 30-35 games then that would just even help more with our chances at a high draft pick in 2021. Win-win for me! And you can still try and trade him the next offseason in a loaded draft
I think the FO needs to determine…however stealthily… if Marvin is willing to lower his expectations and do the dirty work. Kawhi did and his talent shined through, so should Marvins. If he still thinks he needs 20-30 touches than trade his ass and wish him well. For a expected top 10 2021 pick.
I’d do the trade, then flip the pick to the Knicks along with Fox for a shit-ton of assets. Then they can draft Lamelo and grab us another top 5 pick next year with their core of Fox, Lamelo, Randle, and RJ Barrett.
Fox, Parker, Bjelly, 2020 #1 for 2020 #8, 2020 #27, 2021 NYK 1st, Robinson, Portis, Ntilikina.
Draft Halliburton #8, Nesmith #12, Tyler Bey #27.
Ntilikina, Halliburton, Ferrell
Bogi, Nesmith, Cojo (Jeffries)
Barnes, Bey, James
Portis, Barnes, Xavier Tillman (2nd rd)
Robinson, Holmes, Killian Tillie (2nd rd)
That’s a top 5 pick already. Plus you can S&T Bogi, trade Barnes at the deadline, and Cojo might have value then as well. Plus Knicks pick… another high lottery in 2022. Then we start winning.
I’m gonna need like two more 1st rounders from NY
I think we might be over-valuing Fox a bit.
Your valuation is basically Fox for a likely top 5-8 2021 pick.
I think the Knicks might be worse than that. But that’s still a 1 in 3 chance at a top 4 pick (in addition to our own likely top 4 pick). A player with a decent chance of being as good as Fox with 3 extra years of rookie scale contract. Plus Mitchell Robinson.
To me I’m getting Mitchell Robinson, the 8th, and the 27th for the number one. Bjelica, Parker, Portis, and Ntilikina are salary filler and mostly negligent. That’s underselling Ntilikina slightly, but not by much. I’d probably just waive Portis, depending on the language of his team option, as I think he’s a horrible locker room influence. Or just ask for Taj Gibson instead.
That leaves Fox for the 2021 pick (I assume unprotected). That’s a pretty heavy lowball in my opinion. I’d want one more future pick, like a top 10 protected 2023 1st.
I’m not sure Robinson plus 8 and 27 for #1 in this draft would be fair value. Robinson is a very good prospect, he’s 21 and considering he has 2 more years of team control under $2M/year… he’s probably one of the best bargains in the league.
It’s possible we could get more in that package, but I’m just trying to be realistic about Fox’s value. He’s a good young player, but he’s also about to get PAID. And I’m not sure really how much his game contributes to winning basketball in the absence of a consistent 3 point shot. If we could get another pick, all the better.
I don’t normally say this but I think you’re undervaluing Fox by a lot. If he were available as a free agent teams would be lining up to give him a max contract and in a trade he’d fetch a haul. I would not say this about any other Kings asset but Fox has shown enough that I’m positive another team would believe he’d be a superstar if they could get him out of Sacramento.
Mmmmm…maybe? But I have my doubts. His age and ceiling are certainly attractive, but he regressed in his third season, or at least didn’t take the jump I’d hoped for (42nd among PGs in RPM, and the team was better with him OFF the floor).
That’s a mess, and close to value without Fox
I think we might be under-valuing a potential top 5 pick in 2021.
I like where your head is at
I draw the line at trading Fox. Would prefer the idea of trading Buddy and Bagley for Oladipo and Turner but #1 overall is good too even if it’s a weak draft. We have a building block who wants to be here and wanted to be drafted by the Kings. For a franchise like ours, you gotta keep that guy.
Does Fox really want to be here and did he really want to be drafted by the Kings? Or is he a smart, likable guy that knows what people want to hear and who wanted to get drafted as high as possible, saw that was likely the Kings, and was, again, smart and likable enough to say the right things?
Like, if Fox were a free agent this season and every team could offer him the same amount where do you think the Kings would far on his wishlist?
He’s on record (JJ Redick’s podcast) wanting to be on the Kings team that makes the playoffs after such a long drought. So yes, I think he does want to be here still.
So you think if he had his choice of destinations as a draft prospect, or if he were a FA right now, that he would choose Sacramento? Where do you think Sacramento would rank on his wish list? Or do you think if he were drafted by PHX at #4 he would be on JJ’s podcast talking about how he wants to be on the next Suns playoff team?
I think if 95% of the league had their choice of destinations they’d be in LA playing for the Lakers.
I think he was pretty media savvy for a young guy, and he wanted that draft slot. And I think he’s still pretty media savvy, and probably thinks he has a shot at a supermax deal if he hangs around.
I think if the Kings brass thinks this way, we are doomed to another decade of irrelevance. Just because a player “wants to be here”, we should somehow be beholden to them.
If we build a winning team, lots of players will want to be here.
Any decently bright player knows the best way to make the most money (aside from being great on the court) is to talk about how much they love their city and team and how much they want to bring a trophy to [insert NBA city here].
dont watch clips of Anthony Edwards, watch the games. Not to mention there is so much noise about the trouble/potential problems in his circle. There is a reason Georgia went 16-16 and 5-13 in conference.
Extremely high bust potential. Ball is a nightmare, he was not good in anyway last year. Weisman had 1 good stretch on the AAU circuit and then didnt play anyone at Memphis.
Edwards (empty stats guy/potential trouble)
Ball (same)
Now do Bagley.
1 hand, constantly flat tire, but that second jump though!
As someone who fully buys into Anthony Edward’s long term potential and upside… this is still a no for me.
soft
I’m a no. Despite all his issues, Bagley may still turn out better than any player in this draft. I’d have to assume McNair has a file on Bagley from his Houston days and gauge his potential wisely.
He might! Of course, he also might not. And, personally, I think most of the top guys are pretty similar level prospects to Bagley. Some great tools with some big holes. But with the pick you could trade in Bagley’s archetype for a potentially more useful one. Like one with some playmaking chops (Ball, Edwards, Avdija, Hayes, Haliburton) or one with defensive chops (Wiseman, Okongwu) or basically the higher floor/slightly lower ceiling, more developed version of Bagley (Toppin). And with each of them you would have an extra 2 years of team control.
That is an important caveat to the mix…the 2 extra years. The Kings and Bagley have basically wasted two years of him on the cheap. Even if he becomes something, they would have to pay him by the end of 2022 season.
Very hard pass for me unless it’s next year’s pick. Though I am still pretty down on bagley-based on what I’ve seen from him thus far in his young career, he is merely a Julius Randle. Can flat out score from the post and grab rebounds in excellent rate. But the two skills that make his teammates/team betterdefense and passing are not there and I can’t see how he can learn
If Vlade were still GM and the one doing the picking at number 1, I’d definitely say no to this trade.
It’s a weak draft class but I’d trade Bagley for next to nothing. I think we found what we were looking for in Holmes. I don’t think we can afford to spend the time to develop Bagley either. If we don’t start winning soon Fox, Barnes, Holmes, Bogdan, etc may ask for trades adn then we’re back to ground zero. I strongly believe that Holmes is far better than Bagley will ever be so why waste the time and effort. Even if he does start to pan out, he’s somewhat injury prone. Ditch Bagley.
this headline finally got me laughing again at the absurdity of everything. But seriously, I think the trade value of both Buddy and Bagley will be higher in one or 1 & 1/2 years when Buddy has less years remaining on his contract and Bagley has done more to prove himself. Kings can still resign Bogdan.
I’m trying to understand the reasoning for having such optimism In the development of Bagley. The holes in his games are so glaringly obvious and difficult to fix I just can’t wrap my head around this.
I also think Buddy has similar limitations and the clear potential to become a locker room issue that I would do it, despite my misgivings about the top end talent in this draft.
If they could be somehow parlayed into a top 5 pick in next year’s draft I’d be all over it.
What? Yes. Of course I would.
I’d make it all day. Draft Edwards at 1 and Bey at, then still a top pick in a loaded 2021 draft.
Bey at 12*
We all watched what Bagley and Buddy did or did not do last year but we need to take a step back from that mentally. Buy low and sell high right? Most of us are not happy with what we saw from both of them last year and we would like to move on. I think it would be a big mistake to sell low on both of these players right now. I have no idea what the future will look like for both of them but I do feel like they are at a low point. It might be better to trade them in a season or two.
The real challenge is that you never really know if you’re selling low. Bagley could very easily be at his highest value right now when there’s still the assumption of latent potential. As I’ve noted, I don’t think Buddy’s value outside of Kings fandom has changed at all. In a season or two we could very easily be talking about whether or not the Kings should even make Bagley a qualifying offer. It could easily play out very similarly to WCS. In a year or two Buddy is still likely to be the same guys he was the past two seasons. A dependable elite shooter with an elite motor and not much else.
We’re all still waiting for the desenlace about Bagley. As fans, we have no idea what his progress has been in the last year. So we can’t say, really.
Nope. So we can only build our hypotheticals and opinions on what we do know and what we did see. Knowing that, as fans without special access, we don’t have complete information.
Then what we do know and what we saw from him as a rookie is a big man who can attack the basket, can finish well at the rim, can draw fouls, can get offensive rebounds and is a good lob target. That was a year and a half ago. He probably improved on some of his deficiencies in the last year and a half (I’m guessing footwork, defensive technique, defensive rebounding, and some basic reads), which I’d rather have him show and prove instead of selling low. If he hasn’t improved at all, then that would be different.
We did see that. We also saw a ball-stopper with severe tunnel vision and a lack of defensive awareness. I’m well on record in thinking that Bagley will be a useful player. I think his athleticism, hands/touch and rebounding are very real. I fully expect him to score and rebound well given health. I also fully expect his lack team-oriented skills (creating for others, ball movement, awareness on both ends, etc.) will likely cap his ceiling at something like tier 4B if we were to use The Athletics recent Tiers. A good player, but even at his ceiling, unlikely to break into the top 40 or so players in the league.
some of those things concern me also and that’s why I think Bagley has to prove himself. I bet he’ll be extremely productive next year.
I bet we’ll have lots of discussions about how productive he is, how we should be measuring production, and how his style of production impacts team success.
I agree Bagley might not be at his lowest yet, but that is not the correct way to look at it either. When Bagley was drafted, his value was viewed as a top 5 pick in a deep draft. Over the last few years, his stock has not gotten better. Right now, what is his value? IMO his value is not very high(top 10 pick in this bad shallow draft maybe?). So we have a few ways this can work out.
1. We trade Bagley for pennies on the dollar and he ends up being a bust. This would be a good move for the team we might get a rotational player out of it but it would not likely help a ton in the long run.
2. We trade Bagley and he ends up becoming a good to great player for another team. The Kings would once again look like the worst run team in sports.
3. We hold on to Bagley and he never stays healthy or becomes a good player. Again this would not set the team back that much more than drafting him already has.
4. We hold onto Bagley, he stays healthy and has a good or great breakout year. After this we could trade him or decide to keep him but we would get way more value form him in this scenario.
I think most of the people who want to trade him just think he has zero upside but that is just an opinion. I don’t care what anyone’s opinion on Bagley is NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT HIS FUTURE WILL LOOK LIKE and he still has upside. Dude is only 21 and is a freak athlete(you don’t just give up on that) This is about a range of outcomes and making the best long term decision for that range of outcomes. It is not about guessing exactly what Bagley will or will not be in the end. The reward for keeping him far outweighs the reward for for trading him at this point IMO.
I don’t care what any one’s opinion is I JUST WANT TO SPOUT MINE IN CAPS!
And no one knows exactly what my future opinion will look like. Stay tuned! Or not.
I was saying that many of us(me included) try to guess what will happen with Bagley moving forward but in reality the people who are making the decisions about him should view him as having a range of outcomes. The caps were just to highlight that point. No one really knows what his future will be. Sorry that my CAPS bothered you.
Also I was not trying to insult anyone. I probably should have worded that better. I am not the greatest writer and sometimes(more often then I like) I have an issue with being misunderstood. This is not an easy place for a person like me to make comments. I should have said that having an opinion that deals in absolutes and not a range of outcomes is a flawed way of handling any situation. Not just Bagley but all situations in life.
I should also say, I don’t see any reason why the Timberwolves would go for this. Neither of these guys are a good fit. Buddy next to DLo doesn’t make much sense, and even if they did they could just keep Beasley on a likely much cheaper deal. And Bagley doesn’t complement KAT at all. The Wolves need a 3-and-D combo guard and/or a versatile front court defender/rim runner. Draft prospects like Edwards, Haliburton, or Okongwu would suit them much better than Hield/Bagley.
I agree with that. I might take this trade but I don’t even think it is on the table. I would be shocked.
Agreed. If Minny wants to move that pick they can do better than Bagley & Hield.
Yeah, there are quite a few better options for them with that #1. Folks like Diplo, Myles Turner, Hayward, or even Beal could be in discussion for a package involving the #1.
Yes.
I think the Kings should flog De’Aaron Fox instead. Preferably 100 times with a wet noodle.
#SingleIssueVoter
A fair value shooting guard & an oft-injured rim runner for #1 pick? Even in this draft I say yes.
This is about asset management. This year’s #1 has at least the chance to develop as Bagley, and you kick the 2nd contract down the road two years. You get the 1 & 12 this year and all but guarantee a great pick in next year’s draft.
Hield’s unhappy. Bagley needs out from under Luka’s shadow, which would be a non-issue in Minny.
I do this deal. There’s risk, but I do it.
Also, I know nothing.
Adding, I don’t do this deal if the Kings have a coach that knows how to play to Hield’s strengths.
I couldn’t agree more with both takes. The fact that Buddy has such little value on this team, but could be extremely valuable to a well-run team, is almost as sad as the fact that we would consider the proposed trade.
With Vlade being gone does that remove some of the Luka shadow?
I don’t think it does. He’s always going to be not Luka in Sac., but he gets a clean slate anywhere else.
It’s not fair to Bagley, but he’s here while a franchise-altering talent is in Dallas. That’s going to always be a weight here, even though it’s not his fault.
That is a not a reason to trade him. I don’t care he is “not Luka.” I don’t care about Luka. He is history. If we can get something good for Bagley, fine. But it shouldn’t be about Luka. Only dumb Kings fans still think about Luka and the Kings. He has nothing to do with the Kings.
It’s not a reason as a standalone, for sure. I noted additional reasoning above.
And I have to respectfully disagree with your statement about Kings fans being dumb if they still think about Luka. Kings fans are dumb for thinking about the Kings. And I’m proud to be counted among the dummies.
Then keep being a dummy. That is on you, not the Kings.
That’s really the tack you’re going to take, eh?
Well, considering the last Kings GM was gifted a no-lose scenario in the draft with the second pick and Luka was there for the taking, and he decided that Bagley would be a better fit over a soon-to-be-MVP international player that would’ve not only most likely led the Kings to the postseason, but would’ve turned a profit for the Kings business, yeah, you shouldn’t be pointing the finger at fans that are salty over one of the worst transactions ever made by this team.
I hate to break it to you, but until this front office/ownership starts actually making good decisions and leads this team to the postseason, fans have a right to be unhappy about blown franchise-altering decisions. They’ve stuck around for 14 years of losing season, so they should be the last people you should be getting mad about.
Fans have the right to be salty. But you don’t make a trade decision because you are salty. Period.
4 thumbs down on first post. You’re fitting right in champ keep it up
No reason at all to move Bagley.
Only if the deal is right.
Agreed – assessing what the “right” deal comes down to determining his value.
I think it’s fair to say that he currently does not possess “#2 pick in the 2018 draft” value. Arguably he would have difficulty cracking top 7 status right now, behind Doncic, Young, Ayton, Jackson, Gilgeous-Alexander, Porter and Robinson, and perhaps one or two others. The only person (excluding parents) that values him as the #2 pick in that draft is currently collecting on a very nice severance package.
He is an ’18 lottery pick that has unfulfilled promise and only two years left on what is not an inexpensive rookie deal ($9m & $11m). There is undetermined upside for sure, that may or may not ever be fulfilled. And there is some baggage that cannot be ignored – through no fault of his own, he is here instead of what appears to be a potential generational player.
So, what’s the right deal?
But how will we be able to tell since he’ll still be in other shadows?
I don’t think I would. Who are you going to draft? Edwards? If he was a deadly shooter, I would do it. But he shot 40% from the field and 29% from 3. Wiseman? Are we going to play Holms and Wiseman? Wiseman has even less of of a developed shot than Bagley. I am all for trading Buddy Hield for something. I am just not sure what.
Not sure you can worry about Holmes when you’re making your draft pick, since he’s probably more valuable as a trade piece than a piece of the next really good Kings roster.
Yes. Draft Wiseman. Draft best fit at 12. Most like Bey at 12. I think Nesmith fits our team better. And he could provide some elite shooting off the bench. Keep that kid in the gym…he’s is nice with it. Send Barnes & Bjelly to Philly for Harris and their 21st pick. I think Achiawa drops, so we grab him at 21. I was thinking about the same deal with Orlando for Gordon, but I don’t think that deal gives us a pick in return. Plus I believe Harris will provide better spacing. We send our 34 pick to Milwaukee for Divenchenzo. Pick up Josh Jackson on a 1 yr deal. The kid was the 4th pick. He can provide scoring and defense. He was looking pretty rounded toward the end of the Grizzlies’ season. I think the kid wants another chance. We should give it to him and he fits our timeline. Send both our last 2nd last round picks, Cojo, and James to Chicago for Kris Dunn. Maybe cash considerations as well.
Resign Bogi. Resign Bazemore. Resign Jeffries. TRY to keep Giles. I think Parker will opt in and could be an above average role player. Bring Wiseman and watch him block 7 shots in one quarter. Facilitate our offense through Giles as needed.
We roll with…
Fox, Dunn, Guy
Bogi, Divenchenzo, Nesmith
Jackson/Bazemore, Jeffries
Harris, Parker, Achiawa
Holmes, Giles/Wiseman
Send Guy and Achiawa to G-League.
2021 – Playoffs or Lottery???
Outside of trading the 1st for multiple top 20 picks/young player(s), I just don’t think its good value on the traded assets (even if it were best they were both not on the team).
I would do it if I were confident of being able to work out a trade with someone like Boston, multiple picks and maybe a player (R. Williams maybe if they want Wiseman).
I have to say, the idea of trading Bagley and Hield for the 1st is still interesting just to see what McNair does with it when there is no true #1.
I might do that for a 2021 1st, but at that point Fox is on the block and Bogi walks as well since this year’s team wouldn’t stand a chance of making the playoffs without Hield but also may not be bad enough to get a top lottery pick with Fox + Bogi + vets.
While Buddy is unhappy and has his faults, he is also an extremely valuable NBA player on a very fair contract. On his own, with no sweetener, he could bring a huge cache of assets from the right team – vastly more in both the short and long term than a 1st overall in a weak draft class and that should be the target.
Oh boy. Welp, I for one do not hate this idea at all. I have to agree with Richard’s points.
The big risk is that we are underselling the long term value of our stock in Buddy and Bagley for a player that MIGHT not be any better than either one of them in the long run. Plenty of #1 picks have been busts. In that case you lose assets that you could trade later on. I agree that is a dicey risk. And I am perfectly ok with it.
So you sell off a stock too soon that is going to go up one day. That would be bad but that said, I don’t see any indication that Bagley is going to be anything special at all. I’m not a believer, and I think Vlade was a FOOL to take him. I would just like him to go away. As for Buddy, I’m pretty sick of his antics and his turnovers. He can go away too. I like the idea of blowing the whole thing up. I mean ALL of it. Why not? The team sucks as it is.
Winning 20whatever games sucks, and I’d actually rather win zero and get #1 pick and just be the last place team. At least we win at being the worst.
With this (admittedly pretty extreme and more than a little crazy) idea, we can just start fresh and get a #1 pick, who COULD actually be pretty good. Probably not franchise altering good… probably not Luca or Lebron good… but pretty good. Next to Fox… who knows. At this point I’d be willing to take just about any wild chance- because nothing they have done in the last 15 years has been worth a crap and I have already given up all hope quite a while ago. If the kings were a race car, they would be one that got relegated to a demolition derby.
I’d have fun seeing just how nutz the new GM could get. At least THAT would be entertaining, which is more that I can say for most of the games I attended last year.
I am not emotionally tied to ANYONE or ANYTHING that the Kings have at this point. I’d trade Slamson, get pink and yellow jerseys, and freaking rename the team the Jesters at this point if I thought it would help us not suck anymore. You can get rid of the 916 crew too while you’re at it.
But… it is well known that I am a fool, and should probably be ignored when it comes to basketball armchair GM’ing. So there you go. 🙂
I’m on team Greg.
Still single, I guess?
Two puppy crap players in a puppy crap draft. Either option is incredibly unexciting.
Upon sleeping on my original instincts to pass on this trade, I thought of the ancillary aspects of not getting the #1 but removing Buddy and Bagley’s contracts. The Kings immediately take $35M off of the books while possibly adding the #1 pick salary (roughly $10M). I say possibly, because there is nothing stopping the Kings from flipping the #1 as well. If the Kings chose to keep the #1 pick, they’d save $25M in cap space. I’m not for spending in free agency, but would rather eat a bad deal or two for future assets.
From what I gather, the T-Wolves likely have no interest in picking Wiseman or Ball because the don’t fit with what they have invested in Towns and Russell. That leaves them with Edwards. Other teams, however, may really like Ball or Wiseman at #1 (Hello Knicks).
From this, while the T-Wolves want immediate impact now with Towns and Russell as their core, the Kings may be able to to take time. They could flip that #1 to NY for a trove of other assets like Robinson Ntilikina, and NY’s 2021 first rounder, while also creating ample space to eat other teams’ bad deals for future assets. The T-Wolves may not want to take that kind of course of action with the #1 because they want to compete now.
All in all, however, I do think if the Wolves want to move that #1, they could do a lot better than Buddy and Bagley. They should be calling Indy about Turner and Oladipo
They could theoretically both get a useful player or two AND draft a top 10 prospect. Something like (just as an example) #1 + Johnson for #4 + Rozier. Draft Okongwu at 4. Then use the #17 + Culver + something for Oladipo or another useful vet at a key position. Or see if they can get Otto Porter basically for free for taking on his money (I think they have space. I haven’t really looked).
Yup, when you look at it outside the box and beyond just getting the #1 pick for Buddy and Bagley, the sky really is the limit. It would be a true test for McNair and his staff, but it really could be something special and fun.
The short story is having elite assets like a #1 pick (yes, even in this draft) always offers great flexibility.
I like the logic of the offer but I’m interested to see what a competent front office does with this roster of mismatched toys
Question if, this draft is so bad and T Wolves and Warriors are trying to trade out,, if the Kings were to make this hypothetical offer, to get the salaries to match why not actually ask for a player on the Wolves roster the Kings might actually want.
I don’t think Buddy is going anywhere right now. I think McNair will get Buddy and Walton in the same room to air out their grievances. I would imagine to conversation to start like this.
Buddy:” I feel that you’re singling me out for all that is wrong with the team”. Walton responds: ” I need you to play defense and be more well rounded, there’s more to the game than shooting”.
The conversation would go from there and Buddy will still be on the kings next season.
I wouldn’t trade Bagley. If I were Walton or Gentry, at the beginning of training camp I would pull him aside and tell him “Okay kid, show me what you got.”
That’s if Bagley can even play. Since he hurt his foot, we’ve heard nothing about his recovery.
I agree. We have heard nothing, makes me wonder if his foot issues are chronic.
He’s also been close to silent on social media since hurting his foot.
With him off social media, I have no idea how many MVP votes he expects to get this season?!
TBH, it reminds me of Keith Smart deciding to play Tyreke off-ball his second season. I mean from the coach’s perspective, it sounds like he just wants to make Tyreke more well rounded, switchable defender, etc. But what it did was take away his strength advantage which helped lead to most of his rookie success.
In a perfect world, if Buddy was to embrace coming off the bench he would be a sixth man candidate. The dude can shoot and would be just as effective as Kyle Korver, JJ Redick, those kind of players.
He’s already just as effective as those guys. If not moreso.
Agreed. The dude can shoot, hope the kings can keep him.
Well, the real issue is that both of those guys made about 8-10MM per season most of their career. Redick had one outlier season where the 76ers ponied up like crazy because they wanted it to only be a 1 year deal. Now Redick is in the 12-13MM range. And, of course, neither of those guys have ever won anything without having 2-4 much better players around them.
So the question is, where are the Kings going to get those better players? And with what assets will they acquire them without using Hield?
Long answer: No.
Short answer: N.
Normally I’d be happy w/trading Buddy & Bagley for #1, but this year’s draft is so hard to gauge that I’d hope for a stronger return than that. I don’t think Bagley’s necessarily valuable, but I think trading Buddy could get a stronger return.
You think Buddy could get more than the #1 in this draft?
If he plays well enough to rebuild his value, yes. It feels like trading Buddy now would probably be like trading him when his value is at its lowest. Also, the prospects in this draft are so flawed that I’d consider plenty of young players more valuable than the #1 pick.
Yeah, I disagree. I’d say Buddy of his contract is probably worth a late lottery pick at the most. Even in this draft. And Buddy isn’t really a young player. He’s in his theoretical prime years and his second contract.
OT: Interesting. By the way, have the Kings interviewed or worked out anyone yet?
I’m 100% confident the Kings know they can work players out prior to the draft.
This I’m guessing is a response to whoever is lowballing trade offers for the #2 pick.
This seems like the Warriors trying reeeeeeaaaaalllllyyyyyyyy hard to trade that number 2 pick for a player that can help them win now. And I like Avdija but I’m also convinced the Warriors don’t want to be the ones making that pick.
yes. taking Edwards and no regrets.
If I am the T-wolves damn sure would ! Makes them a lot better quick and a potential playoff team !
Hield and Bagley don’t do a ton for them. They need versatile defenders and ball-handling to put around KAT and DLO. Which are pretty much Bagley and Hield’s primarily weaknesses.
No
Would trade Buddy for a top 4 or 5 pick. I bet Obi Toppin wins rookie of the year, and Deni has the highest ceiling. Try to flip the pick if somehow both are drafted before then. I figure Ball will be a great pure PG that can’t shoot (ala Jason Kidd), then eventually develops a 3 point shot. Anthony Edwards has D-Wade potential but his win rate is a huge red flag. There would be plenty of interest in either.
Yes. For Wiseman. If you’re going to miss, miss big. He’s physically similar to, and statistically falls between, Hassan Whiteside and David Robinson.
“We’ve got to think differently. We are the last dog at the bowl.”
Yes.
It’s a risky move, both players have high ceilings and could make us look foolish. Both also have major question marks and do not appear to be transcendent talents.
There will be one (or more) all stars in this years draft – the question will be can we find them?
As somebody who is firmly in the “blow this thing up and start at zero” camp, I approve of this idea. Buddy is more annoying than anything now, and Bagley’s value is close to zero. Big men with back and leg problems are walking kryptonite. If you can get the #1 pick for them–or even an unprotected top-5 in next year’s draft–you do it.
I do this deal and draft Edwards. Then I sign Christian Wood to a nice contract. Then I re-evaluate.
Badge Legend