The Kings Herald Show returns with two more weeks of bad Sacramento Kings basketball to discuss, along with a healthy dose of new trade rumors as the home team stumbles towards the February 10th trade deadline.
Managing editor of this very website and all-around decent human, Greg Wissinger, joined Jerry Reynolds, Will Griffith, and Tony Xypteras on the podcast this week, so special thanks to Greg for spending a couple of hours with us on a Sunday night.
Timestamps:
- (2:25) Breaking down the last two weeks of Sacramento Kings basketball.
- (4:45) Does Monte McNair still think this is a playoff or play-in team?
- (6:05) Can the Kings still go on a run and salvage the season?
- (8:30) Is Monte McNair or Alvin Gentry on the hot seat?
- (16:00) Would the Kings trade De’Aaron Fox or Tyrese Haliburton?
- (28:00) Should the Kings trade first round picks to bring in Ben Simmons or Domantas Sabonis?
- (32:00) What should the Kings do at the trade deadline this year?
- (59:05) What are you watching?
- (104:15) Patreon Question of the Week
You can find The Kings Herald Show wherever you listen to podcasts, but if we’re missing a platform of your choosing, leave us a note in the comments and we’ll get to work. If you can subscribe, rate, and review the podcast on any and all platforms, that would be greatly appreciated, too. It’s the easiest way you can support the show!
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In addition to our bi-weekly podcast with Jerry Reynolds, we also record a Patreon exclusive Q+A once a month where Patrons at any level can Ask Jerry Anything.
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Thanks for listening!
It
Fun listen ! Need more Jerry stories ! Find fun where you can as it’s about all we have now !
One of the best days ever: During the 2011 NBA lockout, the Kings held a season ticket event at Mercedes Rocklin. I had given up my season tickets after 23 years as the penny-pinching ways of the brothers had become apparent. But Jerry was going to speak at this event, and all-time StR member and good guy Ed Montes talked me into going.
Jerry got up and spoke to the crowd, and afterward he ambled by a standing table that Ed and I were occupying. I think that we asked him something about DeMarcus Cousins and Jerry informed us that he could get fined $250,000 for speaking about any current NBA players during the lockout. So we asked, how about former players? And we were off to the races. Jerry’s story of Larry Bird trying to get into the Kings locker room so that he could beat up Eddie Johnson was Mark Twain-esque in its telling. By the time the evening was over, I had no interest in re-upping on my tickets, but I would have bought a season pass to a series of Jerry lectures.
With apologies to Mitch and C-Webb, Jerry would be my first face on Kings Mt. Rushmore. And Gregg Lukenbill would round out that quartet.
I will use this as an opportunity to tease the Patreon Q&A episode we recorded last night where Jerry shared a wonderful Bob McAdoo story.
Nice! I loved Bob McAdoo.
I wonder if Ed Montes has made the migration from “the former site” to TKH?
can confirm
I know this – my level of respect for Ed is high and unyielding. That guy was a huge part of the save-the-team ground attack. Selfless, generous, and just an all-around good guy. One the absolute unsung heroes of that time.
Barnes and Hield for picks and expirings. Period.
Yep, should have done it a year ago. Clueless leadership strikes again.
It’s imperative that this happens. Period.
I tried posted the whole trade but it messed up on my phone…Bones of the trade works as is but could see smaller pieces added like another vet from Sac to Phi for a younger guy
Sac get: Simmons, Harris, Turner
Phi get: Sabonis, Barnes, Lamb, ’24 kings first (top 5 protected)
Ind get: Fox, Holmes, Bagley, ’22 kings first (top 3 protected)
Ind gets 3 younger pieces, 2 fully established, 1 coming on solidly of late plus a likely 7-12 pick this year.
Phi gets an all-star and 1st for simmons and two solid role players for getting out of Harris contract to facilitate the trade.
Sac gets the big get in Simmons and a perfect compliment at Center for him to space the floor, as well as an upgrade at PF but for a tooooon of money.
Hali, Davion
Buddy, TD
Simmons, Harkless
Harris, Metu
Turner, Len
That whole squad is through contract next season to gel and see where the roster could be improved.
Who says no?
You traded almost everyone….but Buddy! He’s got to go!
Was trying to be realistic with Philly wanting Barnes over him.
Maybe buddy in a separate deal?
Fox plus first plus second for Sabonis. Barnes for Nunn and THT. Heild for Toppin and 2 seconds. Holmes Metu and Mitchell and 2 seconds you get for Heild trade for Bridges and PJ Washington. Bagley for Tyrus Jones.Starters: Nunn, Haliburton, Bridges Washington, Sabonis. Backup: T Jones, Davis, THT, Toppin,D. Jones. You can’t get a really ood player like Sabonis unless you give up a first.
some interesting ones hear. I would modify the Hield trade to this. Hield and Thompson for Toppin, Burks, and a second.
Too much to give up for Sabonis.
You just depleted all our cap space and much of our draft capital for an underachieving big man, the bloated contract of Harris, and the talented but very risky Simmons and we still have Buddy’s contract on our hands. Fox for Simmons straight across or Philly can keep paying him to sit out.
We are known for getting solid guys with our cap space right!?
Turner is better defensively than Holmes and spaces the floor for Simmons. Bloated contract yes, would be the best player on our current team, yes. Buddy is also a compliment to Simmons for spacing.
Fox straight for Simmons isn’t happening
With cap space you can make a trade that takes on a bad contract in exchange for a good young player or draft capital. There’s a reason Harris keeps bumping around the league and why Turner is available. Ones an underachiever, the other is overpaid and Simmons is a loose cannon. So you wiped out our draft capital which is our best avenue to improve the team and build a future and left us with no cap space so we have no flexibility to so anything else for a prima donna, a bloated contract, and a massive underachiever. Patience and you’ll see Philadelphia’s asking price sinking like the Dow Jones is right now as we approach February 10th.
List the amount of times we’ve used the cap space to take on a bad contract and got a good player or draft capital…
Harris isn’t bumping around the league and Turner is available for the same reason our players are, it’s not working there and they are going in a different direction for the right price.
Simmons and Turner would change the defensive mindset and ability on this team, and Harris is an overpaid but still high end talent at and important position.
We would automatically be a playoff team with this trade and really only cost us two draft picks because I could care less about us losing “cap space” that we don’t/can’t really use in Sac until we get better first.
Good luck with that drop in price, Morey is stubborn and willing to wait imo
This is the type of trade (see below) we should be making not one that depletes our draft capital and cap space. True in the short run the team will be marginally better but it’s not sustainable and it’s not enough to compete for a championship and after those moves are made there’s to where to go to improve the team further. It’s a very short sided approach to get a low level playoff seed for maybe a year or two and then the franchise collapses again.
Barnes and Bagley to Boston for
first round pick, Horford, and Romeo
Now we go into the offseason with multiple first round picks and some cap space. This is starting to look like a good draft especially at the top and we want to participate. That’s how you build a winning and sustainable model.
I’m trying to be realistic to what is being reported. Kings don’t seem to be willing to trade for prospects and picks….
Great podcast guys. Although I think it’s generous to say that Greg said much because he didn’t say very much even when he did talk. LOL
Not that I care, or anything, just think it was funny. But I do get it: This team has worn everybody out and sometimes there just isn’t anything left to say other than what there is to say.
Fox for Simmons, please.
Thanks
NO THANKS!
I’m squarely in this camp, also. You can also add Haliburton and picks on top of that. This is Ben Simmons, not LeBron James at 25 we’re talking about here.
I was surprised that Jerry called Simmons a top-15 player in the league. Sue me, but being bad at shooting, and what’s more, not even wanting to shoot? That knocks you down a couple of dozen spots in the rankings.
That’s an example of where I disagree with Jerry. Which isn’t too often, I might add. LOL
I didn’t listen to this Podcast. I am too busy working the Trade Machine. 🙂
The Sixer fans at liberty ballers dot com want Ty for Simmons , NO interest in Hield, NO interest in CJ McCollum and his collapsed lung. Smart fans!
Ty has done something in his second year Simmons has not done in his career: improve.
Ty is 64% TS% in his last 24 games, 16 PPG and 9 APG. The revelation for him has been scoring off the bounce to go with the floater and spot 3. It bodes VERY well many of his 3s are clean looks. It is not just he’s making the shot, a hot streak destined to end, it is that he’s deceptive crafty and patient that he gets away from the defender to laser in from deep. He has all the time he needs to set and drain. Although he squirts the ball, he has beautiful arc to get the shooters roll.
Why do you think Buddy Yield is pure trash? He can’t get open unless the defense is asleep. Ty can get open against anyone. He’s on pace to shoot better than Buddy’s best year, 43.7% vs 42.7%. And when Ty gets into the lane he lets the play develop, waits for the defender to commit before deiciding to pass or shoot. He still makes errors but nothing disconcerting.
Morey sees all this and licking his chops after watching Simmons flatline for FOUR seasons.
Fans would rejoice in Simmons if he can be had without Fox or Ty, that is exactly what our GM is working on, I strongly suspect, yet many have the audacity to suggest the GM’s job is on the line, outrageous!
As an aside Fox should take the road trip off to nurse his “sore ankle”. We want to Ty and TD to stack games. We want Holmes to return from the dead, Barnes return from invisibility, this will be facilitated by letting Ty run the show absent the usage of Fox. And also it may behoove us to pile up losses because we may want to dangle that unprotected #1 pick for Simmons.
Barnes had 29 on 11-18 FG while Holmes had 17 on 8-9 FG vs MIL. We need more games like this as we approach the deadline. Sitting Fox, letting them feed off Ty can help them have more productive outings to bolster their value. Independent of a trade of them, it gives us a better idea of what the team may look like pending a Fox for Jalen Brown deal, since the Cs are allegedly open for business. 🙂
Buddy Yield is DEAD money. His merciful and long overdue departure, like Marvin Bustly, is addition by subtraction. Buddys contract runs same length as Harris. When Harris had Ben Simmons last season he was 60% TS%! Now he is 55% TS%, and PHI fans are booing him.
There is NO chance Simmons returns post deadline, Morey said as much in his interview.
Adding Harris is palpable in spite of the eye popping dollars with anticipation he can return to the effeciency he had with Simmons and we subtract the sunk cost on Buddy. This has to be our thinking.
After this year, Harris is on the books for 37 + 39. Buddy is on the books for 21 +19. In effect the cost of Harris is the difference above a sunk cost, or an extra 16 + 20. This is not chicken feed but palatable. When the reports say the Kings are unwilling to take on Harris, I am not buying it. In exchange for doing we so, we bleed less talent and I think this is a trade off we have to be willing to make.
The proposed trade of TT Marvin Buddy and HB for Simmons and Harris saves PHI 34 million in space next season, and helps carve room for Harden. Morey said he’s a historian and when you trade a star (superstar) for pieces, it never (rarely) works. He’s right about this. He also says he’s not interested in incremental trade, not interested in 7th best to 5th best odds to win the Title, he wants to jump to Top 2 or 3. The proposed offer and the one we have likely made, is incremental. But Morey undermines his negotiating position by alleging Simmons is the perfect piece to take PHI to a title, then admitting NO progress has been made on a return.
Morey talks about mitigation, that is, using the primary bullet you have prudently; what about risk mitigation on the other side? Here you have a player within arms reach of the pinnacle of team success, to be the Robin to the Batman in Embiid, chance for redemption, set aside the hurt and pain and perceived betrayal from teammates coach and fans, and pursue glory and rewrite the narrative on your career, and let the competitive fire become dominant. Instead Simmons wants to stay home, collect checks, and Morey feels justified asking another team to give up the Moon?
LOL.
What about OUR risk mitigation assuming a player with this track record, this grudge holding bitterness, selfishness and hypersensitivity and prima donna complex, what about our extreme level risk should these issues crop up again? What happens when the novelty of a new home wears off?
This is the reality of the situation no matter the rhetoric. And this is why the fans who say you are not getting Simmons without Fox or Ty are misguided. This is why middle ground can be sought close to the deadline if and when Morey settles on incremental progress, in form of Buddy and HB for Harris and a player who won’t play for him ever again, and CHANCE for exponential progress with an unprotected pick and cap space to get his superstar. How is this NOT fair? It is more than fair if we pile up the losses between now and then, which may happen regardless.
Bill Simmons get it:
Vlade would have traded Ty and mutiple 1st for Ben. He would have panicked. Yet this GM is getting grief by most of the fan base?! C’mon! McGenius has got this. And even if a trade does not transpire, it is only because Morey was too stubborn for his own good!
How is Morey going to get Harden this summer? Harden would have to opt in to his option then the Nets choose to trade him for Simmons? Why would they help their rival and take on the inferior player? If Harden opts out and become a free agent where is Morey getting his cap space? The whole thing is fanciful posturing and our GM knows it!
If we are willing to flip HB for Harris, pay the excess over Buddy to do so, then the question boils down to willingness to offer an unprotected pick for Simmons. Would you rather have your pick this summer or Simmons on a max deal until 2025? With our GM keen eye for talent you could readily and likely get a guy who outperforms his contract for 5 years vs a guy likely to underperform his contract and 110M due.
From this standpoint alone is the basis not to include Ty and multiple picks. One is enough. From Sixer point of view, they have the possibility for incremental progress at the deadline, with HB and Buddy (if used properly can maybe help them, though I doubt it) over Harris, with chance for exponential progress this summer with a coveted pick and a chance to get Harden, from NO chance to viable. If the 76ers can do better than this, I will believe it when I see it.
McGenius is in charge and nothing to worry about ! Good times ahead !🤪
McGenius rides again! Nice fucking model, Monte!
Very very solid points on all the financial stuff and posturing by Morey. I too believe that HB, Buddy, Marvin, TT and 2022 unprotected pick for Simmons and Harris is a very good deal for Philly. I would even be willing to throw in a protected 1st in 2024 if that got the deal done. The risk is worth it in my mind.
the only part of your post that I don’t like really is the mcgenius stuff. Lord knows I hope you are right but I have ZERO trust in Monte doing anything. Why? He hasn’t earned any trust AT ALL. In fact all he’s done is disappoint when it comes to transactions. Respect where respect is due, I think he’s done a great job in the draft 2 years in a row. That’s great and I acknowledge that. As for trades and free agents… he’s failed miserably. I wish those words weren’t true but sadly they are. Now, you could say the Bogi deal wasn’t his fault, you could say the Buddy dealwasn’t his fault. I hold out hope in Monte for those reasons. I’m absolutely skeptical though and still have ZERO trust in him making a good move until he actually makes 1 good move. So far, the only deal he’s made in two years is Delon Wright for Tristan Thompson which is pretty freakin bad!! So yeah, I want to have faith in Monte, he’s just making it incredibly hard for me to do that.
I hope you are right though. So much!!
True dat. Morey needs to unload those contracts if he hopes to get Harden or anyone else.
If the pick is a deal-killer, I guess the Kings would give it up. But I could never fathom the arguments that the Kings take on Simmons and Harris’ contract and give up two or three picks.
If the Kings are taking on Harris’ contract, I say we don’t give up any picks. I have huge red flags in my brain when I think of adding Simmons to the team. I think he his not a sure thing. He is a gamble.
He’s been petulant since he came into the league. He should not have been rookie of the year. Donovan Mitchell was the better player.
Simmons does not put in the work (imagine if he worked like Damian). He’s spoiled, has been spoiled, is self-centered and has huge holes in his game.
He is a unique player, but a gamble. What happens if the team flounders in its first year? Dude might shut down or refuse to play.
I doubt the Kings even rebound much after they get Simmons. How long will they have to wait for him to get in game shape, if he does play at all? In other words, the Kings will probably continue to falter in the standings and the value of the pick will increase.
If Morey wants Harden, he has to go through the Kings. So we’ll keep our pick, thank you very much.
I’d rather get Jalen Brown.
Good post, by the way.
I would love to deal with the Celtics: Fox, HB for Jaylen Brown and Nesmith or Pritchard. Maybe add in pick swaps. We need 3 & D players!!!
I don’t think there is anyway Boston trades Brown in a Fox package. I’d love to get Brown, but it would take a Boston implosion, Fox, and multiple picks to get Brown…and that still might not be enough.
Man, a Brown and Hali backcourt would be beautiful though.
Nesmith is not a 3 and D player.
The reality is the Celtics should try to get Fox. Not for Brown but to create a big three with Brown, Fox and Tatum. Fox and Tatum are good friends and have played together when they were younger. That trio has a recipe for something beautiful in Boston.
So what could the Celtics give the kings for Fox that isn’t Brown? What could they deal that makes them better right now but also allows them to get even better this summer with an additional piece from free agency?
Fox and Barnes for Marcus Smart, Al Horford, Neasmith or any other filler to match salaries plus 2 first round picks from Boston is in my opinion a pretty sweet deal for both teams. Marcus Smart would give the kings an identity right away and be the on court leader this team needs desperately. Horford is still good but functions more as salary matching than anything.
to me, this is an equa trade for both teams. There’s risk for both and potential huge reward for both. It helps both teams in different ways and makes a ton of sense for both teams in different ways. With no Fox and 2 additional first round picks the kings would have money, cap space and assets to acquire a stud wing player to make this team a serious playoff contender while setting themselves up for getting better in the future.
Smart, Mitchell
Hali, Davis
SF ?
PF?
Holmes
Boston makes a bet that Fox, Tatum and Brown are their next big three. It’s a good gamble, I think.
Smart is only 1 of 3 that would help this team. Horford is basically over the hill and Hesmith hasn’t come close to doing anything. You still haven’t addressed the SF PF slots and we have lost Fox and Barnes are best trade chips.
Yes, go for picks and salary relief. Build for the future.
The only way I go for Simmons at this point is if Morey becomes desperate enough to attach Harris, allowing us to trade the kitchen sink (minus Fox and Hali) with no picks attached. We would be doing them a huge favor letting them out of Harris’ deal, and the return should reflect that. If the sticking point is a first round pick, I’d concede a later pick but not this years pick.
Keep Fox and Hali, trade for Simmons and let him sit/get into game shape for next season, complete the tank this year and get a high draft pick. This is my dream scenario. And yes, I’m aware of the likelihood of dreams coming true lol.
Yes, no picks attached.
Morey is on the record now as being willing to wait until summer and go after Harden, so that buys him six months where he doesn’t have to make a move, unless it absolutely works for him. He’s not going to be pressured by the trade deadline, and that’s a typically smart play.
Das cool. go ahead and waste a season of Embiid in his prime. Have fun signing Harden with Harris still on the team.
Again, I’d rather the Kings go after other targets or draft picks anyway.
See, I think you are right and the Kings have more leverage than people think. Who says they have to trade for Simmons? Who says anyone has to? Teams aren’t just going to wait around for Morey to accept their deals. They will move on, which is what the Kings should do if the asking price is too high. Let Philly deal with the fallout of not facilitating a trade.
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