The NBA Trade Deadline is February 10th. As we near the deadline, urgency will increase and trade activity should pick up. We’ve seen the beginning of that already. Today the Atlanta Hawks traded Cam Reddish to the New York Knicks in one of the more significant deals we’ve seen so far this season.
The Reddish deal was of particular note to Kings fans. It had been rumored all season that Reddish would likely be traded by the deadline. A 22-year old wing who can score and play defense seems to fit the bill of both fitting a need for the Kings while also being a piece that could help the Kings build for the future. So when the price tag was a heavily protected first round pick and a player who was out of New York’s rotation, it irked some Kings fans, myself included.
The Hawks wanted a first round pick, but got a first rounder that is heavily protected and may end up eventually converting to a pair of second round picks. I don’t consider that a high price for a player of Reddish’s ability and upside. We can argue whether the Kings should have traded one of their own firsts for Reddish and what kinds of protections they could have added and how long you want your draft assets tied up by protections. We all lived through the drawn out protections of the infamous Vlade Divac trade with the 76ers. We know the risks. But we also know that the draft and trades are the two biggest avenues for the Kings to acquire talent, and there was an opportunity for the Kings to acquire a young, talented player at Sacramento’s biggest areas of weakness, and the Kings didn’t do it. The Athletic doesn’t even list the Kings as one of the teams that Atlanta was in talks with.
But I’m not writing this to talk just about Cam Reddish. I’m writing this because I think it’s important to discuss how we evaluate Monte McNair’s front office as we approach the deadline. Whenever we complain about the Kings not making a move, there are two common and predictable responses.
- What if the Kings are saving those assets for something else?
- You don’t know what offers the Kings made or what offers the Kings received.
Let’s address those two ideas.
I firmly believe the Kings are saving their assets for something. What they’re saving them for is anyone’s guess. Ben Simmons? Maybe. Some surprise star that we don’t even know is on the market? Your guess is as good as mine. But I know that the Kings have been holding their assets ever since Monte got the job. Maximizing your assets is obviously difficult. But holding an asset longer doesn’t make it increase in value. Is Buddy Hield worth more this deadline than he was last deadline? What about Harrison Barnes? We don’t know, but it feels unlikely to me.
But that brings us to the second and I believe more important point. We don’t know what discussions the Kings are having. And that is absolutely true. The Athletic doesn’t mention the Kings as being in talks for Reddish, but that just means that the Athletic’s sources didn’t name the Kings as a suitor. It doesn’t mean McNair didn’t do his due diligence. It doesn’t mean he didn’t try.
But that’s also not an excuse.
At the end of the day it is Monte McNair’s job to improve this team. We know his marching orders are to make the playoffs. Whether I agree or disagree with that strategy doesn’t matter, we know that’s the goal. And since Monte took over we haven’t seen the Kings make a significant move to swing the odds towards the Kings being a real playoff team. The goal isn’t (or shouldn’t be) the play-in. It’s the playoffs.
We don’t know what deals Monte has offered. We don’t know what deals he’s been offered. But we know that Monte has had the shortened offseason when he took over, up through his first trade deadline, all of last offseason, and up to this point and time to find a deal. If nobody is offering him what he thinks a player is worth, over that period of time, then it likely means the player isn’t worth what Monte is asking for.
The job is to improve the team and make the best deals possible. And sure, there are times that means holding an asset. But choosing not to take an action is an action unto itself, and should be judged just the same.
I say all of this because I don’t feel like repeating it all endlessly in the comments and on twitter for the next month. I’m going to judge the moves that the Kings make or don’t make. I’m going to judge them based on all possible information I have available. I understand that I may be missing information. Dear god I hope I’m missing information. I hope Monte McNair is operating with more intel than I am, and I am hoping that time proves his actions or inactions to be wise. Because at the end of the day Monte’s goal is to make this team better and I want him to succeed in that goal. But as a fan and a blog boy I am going to judge actions or inactions that I see as running counter to that goal. I do so knowing full well that I might be missing key information or that I could end up being very wrong.
I’m going to be critical until the Kings give me reason to stop. Because until then I’m not sure what the Kings have done to make anyone think they still deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Please give me reason to stop doubting you, Monte.
My prediction: minor moves that do nothing significant. Enter the offseason rutterless yet again.
rudderless
When you lose your rudder the boat is going to crash or go in circles…..when you lose your rutter your only destination is up shit creek
Utter?
Sad but probably accurate.
My comment… is ‘no comment needed’. You got it Greg. As a corollary, I promise to not be a critic of trades if Monte actually does them. Trade somebody Monte. Maybe one of your three point guards. Maybe Buddy. Maybe Barnes. Just do it…
I make no such promise.
Blog Boy prerogative strikes again!
But it’s happening!
https://twitter.com/YahooSports/status/1482043393983320069
Puke
Ugh. Not a fan if this happens.
I’d actually be for Simmons for Fox, straight up. I think that Simmons is the better baseline-to-baseline player, I think that the hyperbole over the playoffs actually has him a bit underrated offensively, and that he would fill the wing void (especially defensively!) while opening up the backcourt for Hali / Mitchell.
There would still be work to be done – a Hali / Mitchell / Simmons lineup would need some scoring punch up front, for sure.
Given that the Sixers are looking to unload Harris, I wonder how amenable they would be to Simmons/Harris for Fox/Hield/Barnes. Harris actually played a lot better when Simmons was on the floor with him. Again, far from perfect – your bench would be sorely lacking in scoring punch and overall depth – but Holmes / Harris / Simmons / Mitchell / Hali would be an interesting starting five. Much more fun to watch on the defensive end, and a mixed bag on offense.
Yep, I’m for it. Fox has hit his ceiling and is now dropping. This team is going nowhere as it is.
And 1 – If you could figure out a way to add Simmons and Myles Turner while giving up no more than Fox and a protected pick (along with anyone not named Tyrese Haliburton), you could be a lighter version of the Griz, especially if you retained Mitchell. That would be a rather dynamic team on defense.
You could probably achieve that by giving up our 2022 and 2023 draft but i’m not sure that’s wise although a starting lineup of Hali, Simmons, Harris, Mitchell and Turner would be the best staring lineup we’d have in 15 years. I just don’t see how you improve from there with no draft picks and cap space.
Agreed Fox for Simmons looks pretty good right now. Especially with Mitchell staying. I can’t help but wonder what that squad could look like, defensively with Ty, Davion, and Ben. Trying not to hope.
not sure I understand the hype surrounding Simmons. He has the opportunity to play for a championship with his current team. Instead, he is sulking. If you trade him to the Warriors, Steph and Draymond might set him straight (turns out Mr Wiggins is pretty good after all). But on a team like the Kiings? Where does your optimism come from that he will give 110% every evening for a team that fights for the 10th place? Fox is still a good asset, wouldn’t a high character guy make more sense if he’s traded at all?
Would be willing to give this a try, but it would be a team that can’t shoot straight. Would definitely have to add shooting (which is doable).
I’ve jumped around this and I am now 100% on board for the Simmons and Harris deal.
Simmons > Fox. Harris > Hb. That is a significant change up!
Agreed 100%
Yea I could be wrong but I’m guessing Philadelphia is not getting offers anywhere near the haul they were expecting for Simmons. I suspect as we move closer to February 10th, Fox for Simmons will be the best offer they have. I’m not sure however if I’d want to take on the big Harris contract. I’ve been advocating Fox for Simmons straight across but vehemently oppose adding our 2022 first round pick as some have suggested. I would love to also move Barnes and Buddy hoping to get some draft capital and cap space. Taking on Harris will greatly reduce our flexibility to make other moves IMO.
Can anyone confirm for me that Richaun Holmes cannot be traded until summer because he was signed using his bird rights? I think I read that on Twitter and hadn’t heard of that restriction.
I checked. He can’t be traded until 1/15/22. So Saturday.
Might be a busy weekend then?
On terms of leaks, possibly. But when the league actually stamps and signs off on the deal won’t take place until Monday at the earliest.
And that assumes, too, there won’t be a failed physical by a team on a player. Like there was in the failed Bol Bol trade to Detroit.
As Elron pointed out, due to resigning with EBRs (early bird rights), you are not eligible to be traded until at least January 15th.
Which is Saturday here in 2022.
Live from Vivek’s Office:
I have come to a sad reality that since the bottom of the West is so bad and Portland has basically just thrown in the towel. The Kings can do absolutely nothing with this roster and would still be the favorites to get the 10th spot and reach the play-in tournament. They can stumble their way into it. It’s that easy.
It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if that is the plan and they then hope an opponent’s twisted ankle or protocols gets them to advance.
Look at the standings, it may just be their plan.
The old “better to be lucky than good” scenario.
Or failing and believing it’s success ! Which is what 10th spot is !
Can’t they just give everybody a trophy at the end of the season?
That would be a “participant” ribbon
Exactly why I was so bummed about Lilard injury.
I am quite convinced that this is their plan; the window of opportunity to stumble ass backwards into the play-in has never been bigger.
“Success” is within our grasp!
Poop or get off the pot, Mr. McNair. Attendance is dismal, the fanbase is past frustration and well into apathy, and nobody in town is getting excited by a play-in appearance. Nobody. it’s a pathetically weak goal that, even if reached, will signal nothing about the current team’s long-term prospects, and everyone knows it. It’s time to exit the spreadsheet and just Get. Something. Done. Ben Simmons? John Collins? Domantas Sabonis? Nobody really gives a rip anymore WHO, or WHAT (picks?) you acquire. Just acquire SOMETHING, anything, that completely re-sets this sad excuse for a table. If it doesn’t work in 2 years, that’s FINE. Seriously. Just try. I haven’t even watched a full game (in person OR on TV) in years now. Give me a reason to tune in again.
THIS! At this point, what’s the worst that can happen? We miss the playoffs again? We’ve been missing them the last 15 years.
Yeah the seemingly lack of urgency to do something is perplexing and frustrating. We do however have to wait until February 10th unit we pass final judgment. Having said that not getting Reddish in a deal similar to the Knicks deal isn’t a great loss to me. I want deals that bring back draft capital and open up cap space. I think it’s pretty clear a significant almost total rebuild is necessary.
Agreed, wait until Feb 10 for a final judgment… but at that time, render the final judgment. I’m not at all upset about not making a play for Reddish; in the all-too-well-known parlance, he does not “move the needle” in either direction (toward legitimate playoff contention or the top of the lottery). He’s a “nice player,” and depending on “nice players” to play above themselves is a recipe for 32-50 basketball. We in Sac know this very well by now!
Agree and well put.
I think Vivek believes he’s smarter than everyone and that this team is talented enough to win in the playoffs and win big.
Soneine needs to distract him like a string pulled around in front of a cat, and makes moves.
Vivek’s playoff mandate is an issue. And it’s not even real playoffs. Fucking playin
Vivek is the problem
That’s why I’m reluctant to “just do something.” I think a rebuild is necessary and the Reddish deal would have fit well in that scenario.
If we package Fox (or any of our value players) with picks for a “star,” I don’t see that changing much. Maybe it adds a few wins, but a lower playoff seed at most.
Then we’d be stuck with no picks to fortify the team. We can trade, but that likely won’t change fortunes that much as we would not want to trade any of the value players we have left.
Unfortunately, I think this team needs a rebuild from the ground up. Keep Fox, Hali, Damian and trade everyone else for any kind of picks or young players possible. Tank and keep building through the draft.
It will take a long time, but Vlade screwed everything when he passed on Doncic.
I know the FO doesn’t want to do this.
They are “saving their assets” for Viveks cheapass. Guy is a penny pincher who won’t invest in the team yet blows money on stupid gm/coaches hires
Vivek may be an idiot, but he’s not cheap.
Isn’t he?
We were one of the first franchises to furlough a sizeable part of the employees.
The Kings shareholders were also confronted with a capital call not too long ago.
This year is the largest payroll the team has had in years, he has paid multiple coaches/GMs simultaneously for years, the team had to pay a sizable overage on the arena costs, its reported the team lost at least $100M during the pandemic, etc..
I would say his incredibly poor decision-making has been a much bigger problem than his lack of spending.
He is not willing to do what it takes to build a winning team. The payroll and paying old coaches/gm’s are due to dumb decisions not because the owner isn’t cheap. All teams suffered through covid. Why doesn’t he drop money on a real gm instead of rookies? I’ll tell you why, because rookies cost less just like rookie nba players cost less. I don’t see Vivek investing much into the team beyond what the minimum is. If he would invest and step away we wouldn’t be in this situation 8 years after he bought the damn team.
Reddish will be eligible for a rookie-scale extension this summer, which is one of the reasons the Hawks, who already have several sizable contracts in place, were willing to move him. Also the protections on the first round pick from Charlotte are top 18 2022, top 16 2023, and top 14 2024. There really is no reason to assume the pick will convert to two second rounders. Lastly, Reddish is not a good defender yet as you mentioned. He can score and is shooting a fairly impressive percentage but I don’t see a great deal of ability yet for him to create his own shot. Also, I’m not impressed with his court sense and vision which may likely improve with time. I don’t think the trade was necessarily a slam dunk and I not sure a Kings first rounder only somewhat protected due to the Kings ineptitude would be a good move for the Kings. I do however share the fan base frustration that the Kings still have failed to do something. I guess to be fair however we have to wait until February 10th to pass definitive judgment.
Agree with this. And that Monte will be judged only on what he does, not how hard he does or doesn’t try. He should get until the start of next season. If that team starts slow, he should be out.
Ah the old, “we have to wait and see if ____ can integrate into the new system.” Insert coaches, gms, players, 916 crew, etc.
Agree with this timeline. He’s waiting and waiting and waiting for a trade to come along that will improve the team. I certainly hope he doesn’t think (and doesn’t get) three years to make one trade that actually improves the team.
Yet he will make the Knicks better and likely a 15-20 point scorer sooner than later ! Kings pick not likely to be as good !
Kings pick will be 8-10. Hawks would go for that. Hawks got Knicks second first rounder at around 20. Reddish MIGHT be worth that. Might.
If he averages 15, it is 30 one night and zero the next.
A Kings first rounder is too high for Reddish. Knicks gave up a Charlotte pick protected but not enough that it will not probably convey.
So this is not their own first rounder.
Redish not a good defender and never met his potential. I see a taller B-Mac.
and he is inconsistent. Sabonis is a good player but cannot spread the floor- Redundant with Holmes. Collins is fine but at what price?
I suspect only minor deals if any and lots of “we had a better deal yesterday stuff”
Sabonis is better than any King and why is an All Star !
Do the Kings have two superstars? No.
No hope.
Arrange what you need. Without two superstars it will never be anything but a night out.
That’s why you accumulate a bunch of draft capital and hope you get lucky with a couple. First step is to move expensive veterans like Barnes and Buddy and I think Holmes when eligible for draft picks and cap space. I’d also move Fox if I can get a couple of firsts and some longer term cap space but it have to be a pretty decent haul. Once, I’ve done that, I use the cap space to pickup a bad contract no more than two years in exchange for more draft picks. If you get to the point a couple years down the road where you think you’re just a piece or two away then consider sacrificing some draft capital for a NBA ready player. I’d be very reluctant to give up any first round picks for marginal gambles like Reddish at this point.
Your strategy is fine except that 4 teams have a head start- OKC, Detroit, Houston and Orlando. Look at teams with multiple first round picks- they acquired them with this strategy and do not want to give them up for middle aged vets.
The teams that want middle aged vets- the contending teams -have little left in the cupboard – very few picks except late first round picks and very few young players who might make a difference.
at this point, no one is giving up a potential high lottery pick and the Kings need that + a ton of luck to get a player. They could get enough ping pong balls to get a #2 !!!!! and, oh yes, pick a Bagley
Holmes is eligible to be traded tomorrow, January 15th.
I agree with your plan. The Kings front office definitely have to find suitors for Buddy, Barnes and possibly Holmes. I think you’re right on at least dangling Fox to see what the market offers. If the payback is big enough, go for it.
The Kings have to go big, or go home. I know it’s not always possible, but just doing minor moves ain’t gonna cut it this time.
Pistons and Spurs had long, successful runs without 2 stars, in my book. But they required elite coaching and player leadership – neither of which has been here since Adelman.
I mean when you talk about the Spurs did you consider, Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Genobli, Tony Parker, KL. I’m not sure what era your referring to but there was plenty of talent there.
To me Ginobli and Parker weren’t stars. Robinson was declining when Duncan became a star. Duncan was declining when Kawhi became a star. I saw them as always having one star, and then some very good players.
I guess it depends on how you define a star. To me there was a good window of time where Tony Parker was perhaps the most complete back court player in the game.
Put them on another team and what would do they do? That’s how I’d measure a star. Of course, it’s theoretical, because it doesn’t often happen. But I don’t think Parker, Ginobli, old Duncan, or old Robinson would’ve turned the Kings into anything. LeBron, Durant, Curry, Kawhi, etc would have.
It is theoretical, but I believe that, given the mostly slow pace and deliberate, team-oriented play of the Spurs, Manu and Parker would have been able to play a bigger role on different teams. Their efficiency might have dropped a little, but they would make it up with bigger raw numbers (and that is what most people would still look at).
In their best seasons, they averaged 22 points and 6.9 assists (Parker) and 19.5 points, 4.8 rebs and 4.5 assists (Manu).
And then think about the fact that they averaged relatively low minutes, and would play longer as the main man on another team (Manu highest season 31.3 minutes per game, Parker 34.4).
For comparison, Lillard averages 36.3 minutes over his whole career. Manu 25.4 and Parker 30.5.
I don’t think Tony Parker’s Sacramento Kings or Manu Ginobli’s Orlando Magic scare anyone. Put Duncan on those teams, however.
Ginobli will be an early Hall of Famer and Parker later !
Ehhhhh. Robinson was still a top 10 player the first few years of Duncan’s career. He was a top 25 or so player 5 of the 6 seasons they played together. There is absolutely zero rationale that supports the idea those Duncan/Robinson teams didn’t have two stars. As for Ginobili, well, if he wasn’t a star I’m not sure what is. He put up top 20 level production for 7-8 straight seasons, top 10 in many of those, and even fringe MVP consideration level in a few. Even those good Pistons teams had two top 20 producers in Wallace and Billups. Then added in like 3-4 top 50 producers.
Well reasoned and well stated Greg. +1.
welcome to the kings Russell Westbrook and Tobias Harris!
&ct=g
Either Haliburton or Fox will have to get moved for any trade that moves the needle. Otherwise, it’s all nibbling around the edges.
That should be the only discussion internally.
Which player makes the most sense going forward.
IDK, it depends on what you can get for Barnes, Buddy and Holmes. Start there and then maybe move Fox.
Role players are going to bring back role players. This team can no longer make minor moves hoping they pay off big.
Need to make big moves that guarantee a big change.
Which maybe the reason they haven’t done anything yet. Trading for a superstar is not the only way to build/improve a team. Depending on who you listen to there are no more than 5 superstars in the league. Small market teams usually improve by drafting and developing well and by making smart trades to improve the team’s roster position by position.
Hoping for one or two great players who will magically turn the team instantly into a chip contender is a fantasy.
Milwaukee disagrees with you
Really hoping for a Barnes/Holmes/2 FRPs for John Collins type of deal. Maybe Atlanta says no especially if they want Simmons. But that’s my favorite potential deal the Kings COULD make.
Yep. Maybe more than I give up for Collins, but something like that might be as good as this team can do. I don’t think that move shifts the team into playoff contention, but maybe it improves you from an asset perspective. Win incremental deals like this and keep making them until you actually get better. I wouldn’t complain too much about this even if I think it’s too much. It’s better than sitting around not getting anything done with Vlade Divac’s core until you get fired.
Don’t need a superstar. We need a core that works at this point. We have proven that the core we have does not work.
Significant move is moving on from this core.
Just role players of a different type ! Think Delon Wright for T Thompson !
At this point Tristan is all role, no player.
Unfortunately, I think the play-in is what Vivek is looking at, as if that should somehow be considered a great accomplishment that’ll placate the fanbase. IF the goal were truly to get to the playoffs, we should have seen some significant moves from Monte over the past 1+ year. Instead, he’s just been polishing the same turd, and there’s nothing that’s happened so far to convince me that there’s a plan to make any significant moves. A desperate “he’s got the green light” leak to the press doesn’t count for anything. I’ve got a bleak feeling about this trade deadline, and the foreseeable future.
10 seed = one postseason road game, right? As if all of Sacramento is going to lose their minds over that.
I see more minor moves. Maybe, something hideous, like Wiggens, Hart, Bazemore, or Okogie.
I did see a pretty cool trade for Fox on Fansided:
Toronto Trades: Scottie Barnes, Goran Dragic, Precious, and Toronto’s 22 pick for Fox.
Some other moves I like, that won’t Happen: Trading for D’Andre Hunter(Was playing well before the injury), Christian Wood, John Collins, If the Kings trade one of Fox/Hali, I like the KIngs going after Coby WHite or Colin Sexton. Nic Claxton, Patrick Williams, Derrick Jones Jr, I would take THT and Nunn for Hield(That would be great), Fox to the Knicks for Barrett/Toppin.
No way in Hell are the Raptors giving up Barnes for Fox. That dude will be the face of their franchise by this time next year and a multi-year all-star the way he is trending.
I’m not exaggerating when I feel he’s one of those Paul George/Kawhi Leonard type players you build around for a decade.
Barnes can be the next Scottie Pippen ! A potential Hall of Famer ! Fox not close to that !
So the Raptors are trading a versatile, exciting guy having an exceptional rookie season as the absolute prototype of a modern NBA wing in order to pick up a max player that plays the same position as their best player. Oh, and they’re throwing in a 1st round pick for the pleasure of doing it.
https://twitter.com/CarmichaelDave/status/1481809407570632706?s=20
So it’s the Hail Mary with the backup QB strategy?
No, it’s the green light for bolstering our postseason chances in the present while giving us a runway for sustained success in the future.
And that runway is darned short, it seems.
So he’s basically made very clear that the team will suck in perpetuity. Great way to inspire confidence in the fans.
Neither is any other strategy. He’s not doing anything.
Its clear what’s going on
the poor ownership cant afford this team
keeping Walton was a financial move
this poor ownership has been hit with a tidal wave of covid reeking havoc on franchise sales and their projects downtown
they cant afford several more years of bad ticket prices
Too bad
Keep thowin’ things at the wall…
Ham proposed this deal on his podcast: Bagley to PDX for Covington. Trade Covington, buddy, Barnes and 2 unprotected 1s to philly for Simmons and Tobias.
I would not do that. If Simmons craps out like he has in Philadelphia you now have no draft, no cap space, no roster and your hole is one they may never get out of. Simmons for Fox straight across would be a reasonable gamble and at this point I don’t think Philadelphia is going to do much better for Simmons.
Very constructive
I’d be OK with that, minus the “unprotected” part.
I don’t believe you can package a newly acquired player in a new trade. Isn’t there some kind timespan that newly acquired player needs to be on the new team before he can be packaged again. From that, I think Covington would have to be traded independently from Buddy and Barnes, which wouldn’t work salary wise.
Also why does PDX do that trade and it doesn’t even work in the trade machine as a 3 team trade. More salary would be needed to be exchanged
60 days Adam. That’s what you’re thinking of.
Thanks, I knew there was some kind of rule like that.
He can still be traded by himself, just not traded with another player on the roster. Welcome to the rules of salary aggregation!
My issue with Simmons is he has quit on one team, a playoff team. How confident are you that a Klutch client gets sent to the Kings is going great lets get to work. I can seem him pulling the same crap. Then where does that leave the team?
It’s not Reddish, it’s the inaction. Also the Hawks to get something in the general realm of what they were asking for.
So I get the frustration. But, that’s why there’s still almost a month until the deadline. There’s time. Not forever. Be interesting to see what this deadline brings if anything.
Inaction is a sign of this team’s unwillingness to accept reality.
you cannot fox this team with one or two trades two minutes before the deadline.
There are decent players moving now. Kings must start participating in the NBA at a professional level.
Here’s my question. Suppose the Kangz next year make the 8th seed but lose the play-in? Does that count as ending the playoff drought? It would by the old rules, but not by the new rules. So by the new rules, do the TKH literati accept that the playoff drought is broken if they get the 10th seed, then win two in a row and end up in the first round? Enquiring mind over here. 🤣
No. It’s always going to be a failure unless it’s absolute perfection every second of the franchises entire existence.
Failure is not being a playoff team or a legit effort to build one ! Not happening so far !
Or maybe making the legit playoffs at anything near the NBA average (53%) instead of roughly 28% of the time and 0 for the past 16 seasons?
Think you missed the joke. But yes, this is one of the 3 worst franchises in NBA history without a doubt.
Nate takes me out back for a catch –
Sandlot is an auto rec. Well played.
The drought ends when the Kings play a game beyond the play-in. A game with the Kings listed as 8 vs 1, or 7 vs 2, but an actual playoff series.
By the NBA’s definition, the play-in is considered “postseason” but is not considered playoffs.
That’s such a dumb definition IMO. But whatever.
The 11th worst team in the NBA will make the play-in. Not seeing the accomplishment here.
Making the actual playoffs is actually not that much of an accomplishment, anywhere other than Sacramento, at least. More teams make than miss the actual playoffs every year, sometimes without winning even half of their games.
Give me a team that consistently competes for a 50 win season. I don’t need a world champion, and I don’t need a 33-49 team that backs into the 10th seed. I’d like a team that puts a decent NBA product on the floor on most nights, figuring out a way to win somewhere close to 6 out of every 10 games.
Hell, I’d take a young 15 win team if they played hard every night and got us a top-4 draft pick for a few years.
This is exactly what the organization should have done back when they saved the team for Sacramento and were granted an easy four years of goodwill.
That said, you need look back no further than last year, when they reportedly were offered a young player (Nesmith? Pritchard?) and Boston’s pick for Barnes. That pick became Sengun. The additional loss(es) from dealing Barnes could have led to Scottie Barnes or at least Franz Wagner. That’s a fun, young team that would get you another decent pick this year.
Do not be surprised if/when Houston and OKC leave us in the dust in the next few years, the same way that Phoenix and Chicago have.
100%. We were cursed with Vivek running every aspect of bball ops for many years (hell, he might still be) and his lack of knowledge in anything basketball-related has set this org back years.
The point of how a few more losses could have netted us a Wagner, not to mention potentially some cap space. I have never really thought about it that way… maybe we will get lucky and do something like that this year…
I give Houston and OKC 2 years to bypass Kings.
Add Twolves, Memphis and the Cavs to your list.
The play-in is a chance to enter the playoffs, it’s not that hard.
I get the definition but still think it’s dumb Marty. It’s like game 163 in MLB. A tiebreaker game should not count as postseason IMO. Period.
An 8th seed loss in the play-in does not equal a playoff appearance, as defined by the NBA. Warriors already missed the playoffs that way because of LeBron.
Greg said 8-1 or 7-2, not 8-9.
In other words, 7-10 are in the play-in to see who secures the 7-8 seeds in the playoffs.
The team will probably spin it the same way Carmichael does, where they say they “broke the post-season drought”.
I am thinking Buddy will be done. To facilitate this
Lakers send Westbrook to Indiana
Kings send Buddy and Tristan to La La Land
Indiana sends Turner and Levert to Sacramento
(A future 1st trade might have to be included to Indiana from Sacramento though)
LA gets their shooter and clear up 12 Million in space this year and 22 million next year
Indiana gets value in return for Turner (With Sabonis coming on so strong, and unhappy, you need to put players around him)and to get him we are basically taking on Levert and his Injuries. They take on more salary, but this is all about keep Sabonis Happy
Kings get more of a true defensive center to either split time or take over for a traded Holmes) and another shooter. We take on slightly more salary after this trade for 1 less year and that’s before any other trades.
This is an interesting idea.
There is no way the Lakers give up Westbrook for Buddy and Thompson. I do however feel Indiana is one of the available trade suitors if the Kings are trying to win now. I don’t think that is the appropriate way to go, I instead think a total rebuild is necessary.
IMV to put it bluntly, Westbrook’s game is $44 million (for 21/22 + $47 millon for 22/23) trash … he is a turnover machine. Russel’s stats compare overall to Fox this season, BUT one can (still) reasonably hope that this season is just an off-year/slump for young-ish Fox (who costs $28 million this year) whereas 33 year-old Westbrook’s numbers fit into a long steady decline since was 28. I think LA would be straight up better without Westbrook (addition by subtraction). Whether Buddy adds something for LA or they are meanwhile happy with Monk’s development is another question.
It’s already been very much rumored out there they are just will to get rid of him for nothing more than a salary dump and a shooter. The cap spaces this saves them over this and next year is pretty huge to be able to sign other players.
I think Indy would want a lot more than just a future first as sweetener. Why would they want to take on Westbrook’s deal while giving up two assets?
Agreed with Adam. If IN takes Westbrook’s garbage deal, they would be the team needing add’l assets included as well.
They missed the playoffs last season for the first time since 2015. Nate Bjorkgren was fired after one season and replaced with Rick Carlisle due to this. They are hungry to get back into the playoff picture, and If the Pacers are looking for a star name at the point guard position, Russell Westbrook would probably be the one to be had for trade not including draft picks.
Indiana was involved in some trade talks with the Philadelphia 76ers for Ben Simmons but no deal was made. The Pacers tend to favor making a playoff push as opposed to fully tearing it down. In this scenario, the team would build around Sabonis with Russell Westbrook bringing a more dynamic point guard presence. While that may seem short-sighted, it’s intriguing to think about.
How about Turner AND Buddy to LA, Westbrook to Indy, Sac gets LaVert,. No picks involved.
I mean that works for me too. Saves us 5 million but the lakers don’t save nearly as much money and I don’t know if that’s enough for them for Westbrook
But but the CondescendingDave interview
How was it? Not sure I can stand listening to it…
Not sure if there’s a way to listen to the whole interview right now, but Dave posted a few clips. The only part I heard is basically “We’re having talks all the time, most aren’t public, and as soon as I find a trade that improves the team, I’ll do it.”
I’ll certainly be interested in what happens this trade deadline and offseason. I think the front office is capable. But if the result is more of the same, where McNair can’t find any trade that improves this team, then he isn’t good at his job and shouldn’t be doing it. Not that Vivek is capable of hiring anyone better, but that there should be some accountablilty, including Vivek, for endless failure.
My bet is that McNair isn’t making it to the next trade deadline with the same core players or without adding any wins.
McGenius said something along the lines that he doesn’t see a need to blow up the roster and the goal is still the playoffs. Either he is a complete idiot, which I don’t think he is, or this all reeks of a meddling owner (even if monte says otherwise). My guess is the latter.
When he says the goal is the “playoffs,” does he mean the goal is “fall into the 10th seed, then get lucky and win the play-in games”? Because that’s not a true playoff team. Finish the season in the top 8, and play a full first-round best-of-7 series. That’s the definition of “playoff team.” Anything less than that, you’re just a bad team that benefited from movable goalposts.
Any good interviewer would have asked that follow-up question…Dave?
To Monte’s credit, J Ross said “postseason” and Monte said “playoffs” in his response.
If McNair’s job is to take a paycheck to do nothing and publicly lie for the owner, he can’t be fired soon enough, on the off chance the owner accidentally picks someone with a backbone and a shred of integrity.
If he says he’s in charge, I’m going to believe him. With the understanding that the owner is ultimately the issue, whatever is or isn’t happening in the front office.
Monte doesn’t have even a shred ? Really?
I see McNair navigating a difficult situation (and it hasn’t been flawless). I think spineless may be a bit harsh
Way to take that completely out of context. You should be a political reporter.
The No. 1 key to surviving a Kings trade deadline:
To quote the wise Kyle Draper just a couple weeks back, “they are building something special here!”
Yes, an all-time record for playoff futility!
As much as I see and understand the pessimism, and I FEEL the PAIN!, I still see optimism as well. There are ways to tank in plain sight , and ways to do it covertly, maybe even on accident! We’ll find out because they aren’t going to take their foot off the gas pedal, even though everyone knows you can’t win a race without using the brakes here and there. And your likely to get into a wreck!
As far as acquiring talent, there’s the draft , trades, or free agency. IMO, McNair’s draft record, although small is very strong. Trades can be explored, but, you’ve got to give something to get something, Let’s ignore the last because there’s nothing to see there.
Drafting well over time is a winning formula. It may not get you to elite status by itself, but if you make good picks in every draft it will, in time, produce a winner.
I would be hesitant myself to give draft picks when, so far, picking drafts is the only thing our FO has shown it can do well.
I know it’s been 15 years and I’m worn down by the futility also, but I don’t want to see them chase desperate trades.
Agree with most of this. His draft record is an A-/B+, his trade record grade is an F and his use of free agency is a C- and only that high because he hasn’t made any stupid over payments yet. If February 10th passes by with no significant move I think a fan mutiny will and should occur.
One man’s pessimism is another man’s realism. To wit, I was thought to be a pessimist with my prediction that the team would go 35-47. The way the team is tracking, I am actually an optimist. See how that works? The labels are completely reliant on the performance of the team. Weird!
And McNair did great with the Hali pick, but the jury is still out on Mitchell, whom I like. If the all rookie teams were announce today, Mitchell would not crack the top ten. And if the strategy is to turn this team around on the smoke generated by mid-lottery picks, well, let’s just say that’s a bold strategy. But with that said, if the strength of the organization is its drafting acumen, one would think that obtaining picks – any picks – for the likes of Barnes and Hield would be a solid strategy.
I didn’t mean to make you a pessimist. And yes it is a bold strategy. I can’t name anyone else trying it. That said they refuse to “tear it down.” And I know the jury is still out on most, if not all, of McNair’s draft picks.
I’m also pessimistic about this season. In fact, I almost would like to see things go even further south maybe just so Vivek can learn (yeah right!) his lesson about holding his GM’s feet to the fire instead of letting him build.
If history repeats, Vivek will fire McNair after the season, despite his draft record, for failing to get the team to the play-in (ha-ha!). He’ll hire Joe Schmoe and order him to off-load Ty and Mitchell, and a 1st for a Randolph style washed-up has-been so we can get the 10 spot next season.
If you just want a playoff contender (and you should), then you just keep the GM who makes solid draft choices. Also, I think Vivek has already humiliated himself enough times to have learned his lesson about meddling in drafts. He hasn’t learned those lessons concerning trades. You know he wants to be involved!
If I’m an opposing GM, that fact alone makes me not want to transact with Sacramento.
If McNair doesn’t do anything, I don’t know how he can justify keeping his job beyond the offseason anyway, with the caveat the Vivek is ultimately the problem, even if it’s limited to bad hiring.
I disagree Carl
Haliburton
I like Tyrese. How many wins has Monte McNair added to this team in the two offseasons and going on his second trade deadline? How much cap space? How many of the current top MPG players were the top MPG players on Vlade Divac’s 2019-20 team?
I’d like to see an evaluation of McNair’s draft picks relative to the rest of the league
It’s hard to evaluate 1.5 years in. I think it’s fair to say Haliburton was a great pick. Otherwise, they’re all wait and see. Though personally, I wouldn’t worry too much about jettisoning Ramsey and Woodard if we needed the roster spots.
Great thoughts! I hadn’t considered trading assets for picks which would seem the smart way to go given everything we’ve said here, only because it’s been stated the current regime will not listen to any strategy that involves taking a step back. It’s always “Win Now! At All Cost!”
I think it’s this win now focus that has me the most pessimistic. Fans want to believe their team will do whatever it takes to improve over time. Even if that means taking a step back in the short term. This team has basically made a public stance that they are not willing to do that. It makes it feel like a runaway train.
yes Kyle- you nailed it- just like the rest of your analysis
This team is on a pace to finish with 32-33 wins, which would likely place them 3 games out of 10th, 10 games out of 8th, and over 30(!) games behind whoever wins the West. But hey, we’re “competing” for a play-in spot. And what is this future that the organization sees that I lack the vision to envision? The team continues to struggle, continues to draft in the mid-lottery, continues to wear out the little talent that it does possess…maybe it’s just me. I can get cranky when I predict that this team will win 35 games and they fall short of such a tempered expectation.
yeah making a playin in game is really a poor benchmark as an evaluation tool. Credibility is when they can achieve a plus 500 season with a young and improving roster. A tenth spot may give management something to crow about and hoodwink the fans into thinking something relevant has been achieved.
Well stated:
Truth. Young and improving is the key. Currently there are only 2 young core pieces that I think could still show significant growth going forward and they are Hali and Mitchell. Barnes, Buddy, Holmes are at their peak or even past it. Fox is who he is and I don’t really see much growth left in him. I can’t think of too many players who took it to another level going into their 6th season and beyond. Kyle Lowry comes to mind, but his growth cam with more opportunity and minutes, where as Fox has had the keys to the car since his 2nd season. If anything, Fox has regressed this season.
If the Kings can continue to wildly under-perform, they can tank without giving up any assets. The Warriors launched their dynasty this way by having Steph Curry on IR for the better part of two seasons and built a powerhouse out of mid-lottery picks. It’s admittedly a little more difficult to explain how the kings are hiding major talent in plain sight. We don’t have Steph, but I do see a mis-matching talent pool gathering.
Of McNair’s 2 first rounders, and three seconds, you’ve got Tyrese, Davion, Woodard, Ramsey, and Queta. I only see 1 miss there. Queta looks like a steal!
Not seeing how Woodard or Ramsey qualify as anything at this point. I am encouraged by what I saw in Queta, but man, talk about small sample size. I think that Mitchell will ultimately be a top ten player in his draft class, but as of 1/14/22 he does not warrant his draft pick status – he’s probably the 12th best rookie as we speak.
Without some ping pong ball luck, the Kings will finish this season once again in no-man’s land: not a .500 team, not a bottom five team.
Oh, and the saddest part of this? The Kings are not “wildly underperforming.” They pretty much are performing to the coaching and player talent level that the organization has assembled.
I said 1 miss (Woodard). Ramsey is about neutral for his draft spot. All this is obviously subjective, but I’m saying my opinion is Queta looks great! Ramsey looks pretty good. I agree with your assessment of Mitchell, although you still seem pessimistically optimistic about him. Maybe because good enough isn’t. We all wanted a higher pick, and this team is obviously mis-managed. Take stock in what the Knicks are doing in spite of their ownership.
Lastly, Tyrese is still the home-run swing that puts McNair way ahead of the curve, and it’s gonna take a Bagley sized dud to out weigh his impact. I think an unbiased evaluation of his draft resume looks mostly positive and I think your comments agree.
I hope they can come up with a trade that helps the team since that’s what they’re hellbent on doing, but I don’t feel confident making a lot of suggestions. These players value going forward is difficult to quantify. I’d probably defer to McNair’s decision. Hopefully we don’t get Vivek’s decision.
I’m all for giving credit where credit is due, but Hali was a highly ranked prospect that fell to 12. Again, credit to McNair for not passing on him – there are quite a few GMs that picked between 5-11 that may be kicking themselves right now. So I give him full credit for the pick, but I’m going to stop short of calling him a draft savant.
I liked Moses Moody when the Kings pick came up this year. I’m also wrong at least half the time. There were other options like Sengun and Zaire Williams, among a few others. I think that Mitchell will go on and have a solid 10 year or better career if he stays healthy, on a Patrick Beverley arc. He will be better than some players that were chosen before him, and not as good as some players chosen after him. After the dust settles on his career, I think that he will be a perfectly fine 9 pick, but not a needle mover. The Jason Thompson or Willie Cauley-Stein of his draft, in Kings terms. Neither cause nor cure. Not a blown pick, but not a Dirk or T-Mac or Amar’e or Marion or DeRozan or Iggy or Kemba, the guys that make up the upper tier of #9 picks. And to be clear, I like Mitchell and I like watching him play. But in the here and the now, he is roughly a B-/C+ pick. And that’s OK – Fox did not make all rookie and Dennis Smith Jr. did, so it is premature to label Mitchell as anything. Which is sort of my point – I don’t see how we give McNair credits or debits for the selection of Mitchell.
McNair did well to take advantage of Hali being on the board. And Mitchell looks like a career NBA guy, level to be determined. And that’s about it, until/unless some of these players take much-needed next steps in their respective games.
I liked Sengun at 9. Over Davion and Duarte and Moody.
Does not matter who I liked.
Mitchell will be ok, is fading now and will be better than Beverely.
The only guy who has really shown anything at this point is Halliburton. Mitchell is certainly an excellent defender, but if he can’t shoot, his impact is going to be pretty limited. It’s obviously still early in his career.
The other players are fringe roster players today. Being an above average drafter at the 8 to 12 spot every year, which is in no way a foregone conclusion based on two drafts, isn’t going to get this team anywhere. They would need to hit a Kawhi/Klay/Steph/Ginnnis mid to late lottery pick. That’s always possible, but hope is not a plan.
well said.
The 9 and 10 slots are not the playoffs and the 10 is almost a default with Blazers spiraling.
Unless SAS or NOP rally.
Reddish is trash and is not the type of player you want to lock up a first round pick with when you’re looking to trade for a player who could really make a difference.
This dude has been one of the worst players in the league since he got drafted. The idea of what he is and what he actually is are miles apart.
I wouldn’t refer to him as trash and I don’t share the glowing appraisal by the author. Something in between IMO.
Kings just beat the Lakers and have a soft schedule for the next few games. Just enough for mgmt to go into win-now mode. IMO, Holmes, Barnes, and Buddy have some trade value and young assets or picks need to be gotten for these players. Fox needs to be on the table as well and a shiny keychain needs to be acquired to hand to Haliburton.
We need the next 3 games to go very poorly to force Monte’s hand even more.
I don’t think that it will matter one bit. You’re talking about a team that is currently on pace to finish the season with 31-32 wins and 50-51 losses. If that isn’t enough of a wake up call for the organization, three bad games won’t move the needle.
If the Pels stumble at all the Kings could easily dog paddle into the 10th seed with 31 wins. That’s my darkest timeline.
The big problem, as always, is that Vivek is not giving Monte free reign. Vivek is telling him to go get the 8 seed (I think it’s 10 or better). So Monte is sitting there looking at a roster that needs to be completely torn down and rebuilt but he can’t do it. So he waits for a good return on MEDIOCRE talent, I’m not sold on the production/talent of Barnes, Holmes, or any of them (easy to put up numbers on bad teams) except maybe Hali but at this point who cares we need a change. Not sure who Monte is as a GM, kinda hard when you can’t do the thing this franchise needs, again, rebuild. Also, no one wants to come here, so I doubt that helps trying to trade for or sign anyone good. Get picks until you find a superstar or two.
The lack of communication and action makes one wonder and surmise that Vivek is not allowing McNair to essentially do his job. We really don’t know however what’s creating this paralysis by the organization. All we can do is to exert fan pressure for them to do something. The best way to do that is to not attend games. Empty seats are a powerful statement to management.
McNair himself keeps saying he has control. Vivek is ultimately the problem here, but I don’t agree with the idea that Vivek is making McNair hostage videos. If McNair says he has control over and over, I’m going to believe him, and still hold Vivek responsible if nothing gets done and McNair gets fired.
Given all our back and forths on this topic alone Spackler, I’ve been thinking it’s possible the leak to Amick was Monte telling the rest of the NBA: ‘All negotiations go through me.’ It seems plausible even if atypical of this org’s recent MO since 2013. Especially since it’s been said in the past how often other FOs don’t know who to talk to in the Kings FO.
Food for thought.
That is a huge concern, the Kings front office overestimating the talent of our tradeable assets. Meanwhile, no major moves are made and we continue the pipedream of standing pat, making minor tweaks year after year.
That I think is very true. Good post.
Question, Monte has been given free reign to or is it free reign to make the playoffs. I suspect its the latter, as if it were up to Monte he’d remake the roster. But thats not the mandate he has been given correct. Its a distinction but a subtle one yes?
McNair has never been for a rebuild that I’ve heard. I think (based on no evidence) that’s part of why he was hired.
It looks to me like the Kings may have drafted the two best defensive prospects available to them in this last draft.
Trey Murphey, Herbert Jones, Robinson-Earl has been pretty good.
Man, I have been lazy lurking since before Christmas. This what-if trade stuff looks like the Nextdoor users talking about what kind of specialty store they want to go into the old mall. All the yakking in the world changes nothing. I realize that is the purpose of this site, but man a lot of you need to change your avatars to Eeyore. Or Glum from Gulliver’s travels. (It’ll never work!!)
Can we have a little discourse on what we aren’t f’ing up? small yes but damn the Kangz of the court are bad enough without beating every detail of their shittiness to death here.
Back to Lurking till the deadline is over.
Well, let’s start. What aren’t they f’ing up? I can’t think of much…
Well, there is Tyrese Haliburton. Let’s see after that…
24 minutes of Queta. After that…
Easy in and out at G1C?
I’m tryin’
You first.
Hey, Monte…
I don’t mean to sound ungrateful, seeing as you haven’t necessarily torpedoed this team or mortgaged its future or anything like that but if you haven’t noticed, us Kings fans are over here like
Thread jack: I posted this in a another article, but I think its worth re-posting. Jason Jones (I know…) was on Dlo and KC a couple days back and talked 10-15 mins about Fox’s lack of aggression/effort which has been an issue for years. Pretty scathing. Start at 21 mins:
Nearly a thousand words of speculation, floating with no visible means of support.
If we just stop at the part where you concede that you don’t have all of the information, then we’d have a fun, fully speculative piece about possible trades.
The assumption that no trades have happened because McNair is overvaluing his assets is a large one. Grand Canyon large. I suppose I would ask whether you think fair value has been offered for, say, Fox, Barnes, Hield, or anyone else, alone or in combo.
We all suffer in varying degrees from the overwhelmingly toxic nature that this essential site has taken on, and that includes the columnists. Fans of other teams fully understand the value of players like Fox, Barnes, Hield, Holmes and Haliburton, whereas the consensus here is that they’re all some degree of terrible, and should be moved for damned near anything that can be had. This is why none of us work in the front office of an NBA team.
Changes do need to be made, and that is undeniable, but certainly not to make a noisy contingent of armchair GMs happy. I do not understand the panic, particularly with nearly a month left until the window slams shut. The Kings have assets, some very good ones, as a matter of fact, and just because they may have worn out their welcomes with you, it doesn’t diminish their value on the trade market.
Cam Reddish would have been a good get, and the Knicks got him for basically nothing. My read is that Atlanta absolutely hosed themselves for almost nothing in return. I’ve not bothered to look, but I’d not be surprised to learn that Hawks’ fans are scratching their heads and wondering why their team gave up a budding star, in order to get a non-lottery pick, and Kevin Farking Knox. Looking at it from their point of view, this seems worse than having done nothing, particularly with so much time left before the deadline. Atlanta is having a terrible season, and this trade does nothing to alleviate their problems.
I’ll refer you to the Hield/Harrell-Kuzma trade that almost happened. That deal would have improved both teams, and the Lakers decided that it would be better to acquire Westbrook instead. We can blather about McNair’s “inability to close the deal,” but to my knowledge, it’s not possible to force another team to do business with you, no matter how fair your offer happens to be.
If I’m in McNair’s shoes, and Ranadive is on the record as giving him full control, I’m doing whatever I think is best, and living or dying with the results. There is absolutely nothing in it for McNair to maintain the status quo, unless the only actual options are those that would further damage the organization.
LOL, what does this even mean?
It’s perfectly straightforward, and uncomplicated.
Fox value is soaring as we speak. When did teams “fully understand the value of Fox”, before or after he was playing like crap?
I’m actually surprised to see such an inane question from you. I don’t agree with all of your takes, but you don’t lack for knowledge at all.
Based on the second sentence, I’m reading the first sentence under the impression that it’s meant to be ironic.
And it’s good that you acknowledged at the end that Fox isn’t playing like crap, since we are in the “after” portion of your question.
How long is too long then? What if all the other GMs see the Kings as desperate and never offer fair value? Since he’s not committed to a rebuild, what if Monte just isn’t capable of landing that star he has bet his career on getting? Panic will justifiably continue to rise around here the longer this goes on. 16 years and counting.
Every team in the NBA is desperate when the deadline rolls around. Bad teams want to eventually get better, and good teams want as much talent and depth as they can handle for the playoffs. There are no perfect teams that are definitely standing pat. Even great teams get exposed in the playoffs if the matchups are bad.
I’m not familiar with this oath that McNair took to land a star, lest his career be ruled a failure, but stars are good to get, when they can be had. Geoff Petrie’s career as GM is pretty solid, by all accounts, but was he able to acquire any actual stars after Brad Miller. or Ron Artest? It’s not as if he didn’t know how, and he didn’t suddenly become stupid after that. Petrie had a bunch of years in the wilderness before being replaced by new ownership.
If you simply need to panic, by all means, have at it. To thine own self be true, now and always. I expect that if there are deals to be had, and trade partners don’t renege like the idiot Lakers, then McNair will execute them.
I suppose I would ask for reasonable trade scenarios where you feel the Kings would definitely be getting the short end. For example, it appears that both Simmons and Harris can be had. Which combination of Sacramento assets do you feel would fall in that Goldilocks zone, where we didn’t overpay too much, and didn’t give up too much?
So, five years? Ten? Man, I wish you were my boss.
I’m saddened that you’ve never worked for anyone objective.
Acknowledging the facts on the ground, rather than shouting “me wantee” is hardly an unlimited leash for McNair. He needs to produce results, but if the consensus is to be believed, all he has to offer is hot garbage.
I can’t square the notion that the Kings’ players are terrible and that the GM should also be able to spin them into a superstar. If you’re aware of any business in operation that does swaps of this nature, I think we’d all love to know the details.
So which is it? Do the Kings have a number of highly desirable players who are coveted by other NBA teams, thus making trades a breeze? Or is McNair saddled with a bunch of stiffs who couldn’t find their own asses with both hands and a road map? Or hell, is the roster loaded with absolute gems, and McNair doesn’t know how to use a telephone?
I’ll argue about anything you want, but get yourself a position first.
The roster has been almost entirely loaded with bad to mediocre players, and absent an unlikely star trade, the task is to replace them with progressively better players.
It’s not going well.
That is 100% true, unless you consider the draft, trades, and free agent signings.
No less than Jerry Reynolds is on the record stating that this is the most talented roster that the Kings have had in years. That’s hardly the same thing as saying that it’s a great team, but do you feel that you’re a better talent evaluator than our beloved silver fox?
I guess I’m not going to get an answer.
Yep.
Yep, again.
Yep, thrice.
The grass is greener on the other side. Dontcha know the only grass in Sac is brown, ugly and uglier? Unless it’s fake grass, that is. Or you’re a water hog who likes grass, but whatever, details are stupid.
It’s ironic that many fans complaining about the organization not picking a lane and clear direction are often just as rudderless and lost as the organization they are complaining about.
Incidentally, I prefer the right lane on longer drives. Since picking a lane seems to be a thing around here now.
They are decent players on a bad team. Let them play somewhere else and then we will see if they are good players.
I’d rather have the 20th pick than Reddish right now. I’m not sure where “budding star” is coming from.
Neither the 20th pick or Reddish excites me in any way. Most of this trade, IMO, was PR for Schlenk to cover the fact the Hawks are underperforming worse than any team outside of the good ship Sacramento Kings (who aren’t considered nationally to be disappointing).
No more than the assumption that the reason for McNair doing nothing is because he’s been offered nothing. And the results matter more than the reasons.
“Overwhelmingly” is doing a lot of work here. And to whatever degree this is true, it is not an accident, and is based on people’s toxic behavior. I’d wager most commenters here don’t believe the columnists are the problem.
I said that the columnists also suffer from the toxicity, not that they were responsible for all of it.
A simple misunderstanding on your part. Don’t fret about it.
If Monte is obliged to operate inside the Vivek mandate of success as discribed, i feel very unconfident on how exactly he will meet these criteria. In other words the only way to succeed is by rebuilding, every trade, even one that includes Ben Simmons, won’t help unless a generous tankathon is preceded
Reddish is 38.5% FG% in 3100 NBA minutes with more TOs than assists, 160 to 174. Is this your idea of a player “fitting the bill”? His block rate is poor for a long wing, 11 blocks in 34 games. This suggests his anticipation and reaction speed is not where you would like it for someone of his physical profile.
Oh noes, we did not land a 38% shooter with mediocre handles and floor game in exchange for a protected 1st, which would remove us from contention for Simmons, Siakam, Sabonis or Brown, what an egregious calamity by our do-nothing GM!
McGenius forgot more about what this collectivee forum knows about basketball and I have the receipts to prove it. Read on.
It is good we have a GM who thinks big, who thinks in terms of homeruns instead of singles or bunt or sacrfice fly, because impetuousness and small-minded thinking is not conducive to success.
Cam Reddish is small-mindedness. Just like Aaron Nesmith was thinking small. Oh he’s a wing? Sign him now! Nevermind if he can create space or thinks the game like Marvin instead of Ty or Davion.
Being a GM is a high stakes game of poker. It is not for the weak-willed and weak-minded.
It is not based on an immature impulse “we need to do something and do it yesterday!”
There is an opportunity cost with any move, like there is a potential missed opportunity when you do not make a move, saying no to proposal from a counterpart who wants to rip you off. Just based on this basic concept you refute the idea of doing something for sake of doing so, action because you are tired of idling, and because you are 10 games under .500, and rationalize your way into delusion of prudency.
This is why you ned an emotionally detached automaton at the helm, and McNair has the nature that qualifies.
This emotionalism seeping throught this post, “make me feel better, assauge my emotions, do something to make me a believer again, dull the pain of SAC fandom”, is a sad and weak and flawed because (1) it is baskebtall, it is a game, it is a diversion, lighten up and (2) you run risk of digging yourself a deeper hole or stagnating further, especially when compelled by impatience and desperation.
Fans pleading with the GM out of desperation and pain is futile. Guess what, this GM ain’t hearing it! Any effort at showing empathy as the GM showed on Carmichael Dave is PR.
He knows emotion getting in the way of personnel decisions that have to be objectively and dispassionately arrived upon is death for the team and his career.
Taking smart bold action is rooted in proper risk (to reward) assessment, taking calculated risk within a dynamic context with dynamic variables. You have to set aside all emotion and sentimentality.
NO one is in position to do a better risk to reward assessment than the guy working the phones and in the hot seat as we speak. It is comically presumptuous to suggest otherwise:
You are implying you may know more or equal to him? What trade discussion are you privvy to? Who is in your rolodex of league excutive contacts to acertain trade interest and status of negotiation?
It is embarassing to toss out all forms of logic and reason for this emotionalism, and I say this as an emotional but also logical and well – reasoned fan.
Reddish’s splits are equal to Buddy’s, and his year has been trash. Buddy is shooting 38% from 3s, and 42% from 2s. Reddish is shooting is 38% from 3s and 42% from 2s, identical.
If only we had another player with the identical shooting effeciency of Buddy we would be playoff bound….said NO one who knows anything!
Maybe Reddish will put it togather in NY but lets not pretend like sacrifing a protected 1st for him was a no-brainer. Do you not recall this GM using the term “optionality”, being able to be flexible and predatory when conditions arise. Conditioning your 1st round pick for this year and possibly many more thereafter is the opposite of optionality, it is tieing your hands.
In other words, it is BAD business. Unless you think Cam is this repressed star in wait and clearly that is NOT the case or we would have likey won the auction for his services.
Meanwhille, the guy our GM tried to trade Buddy for, Kyle Kuzma, has been racking monster performances lately, further validating his discernment and potential abiity to turn trash into treasure
****
Speaking of ATL, the biggest complaint of our GM is that he chose not to match on Bogi.
This puts the critics in a bit of a catch-22, because they will also tell you this roster is more or less Vlade’s roster. You cannot have it both ways. You want him to keep Vlade’s roster or turn it over, pick a lane.
ATL season has been so disapointing everyone on their roster is allegedly available except for Trae and Capella. This suggests Bogi can be had in a trade.
Where are the fans who ripped our GM for not retaining Bogi clammering for his return? Maybe they checked his performance.
When Bogi was RFA, the high end on his value was limited due to durability and sub 40% from 3. In fact one of the main reason we did not make the playoffs his last year with us he missed too many wide open shots. Additionally, his best attribute as a player, savviness and being able to create out of the pick and roll, was a strength of the guy you just drafted (Ty).
I can recite these points in my sleep because I made them so many times before and after his free agency. As Ty fluorishes, Bogi is hurt again and only 53% TS% in 26 games, not so lethal and injury bug rearing its head.
Our GM has been completlel vindicated in his assessment.
The critics have been silenced, the same critics bemoaning the job of the GM now.
The development of Ty would have been inhibited had Bogi been retained.
Ty is the better shooter and playmaker, and more than 5 years younger.
Until disproven, the 44% from 3s last year for Bogi was the outlier. He’s a career 38% from deep, good but hardly lethal.
Fans say “well, you should’ve matched on Bogi, even as trade asset.” Aging vet who can’t stay healthy, creaky ahtleticism, choked in the playoffs, outclassed by Huerter and owed 36 million after this year is going to have a lot of suitors? And just because Bogi is better than Buddy does not mean he was worth retaining. Again, what Bogi does well, slice and dice out of the pick and roll, Ty does better. Bogi has a 3.4 to 1.5 assist to turnover for 2.2:1. Ty is 6.0 to 1.9 assist to turnover for 3.1:1.
I do think there is a valid criticism of this GM. I am not a defender of his every move if he makes a move not readily defensible. I will not get into it other than say the readers of my commentary know what I am referring to.
The main point is however that fans want to consensusly pretend that the GM is at a cross roads, do or die, this deadline is his last stand, get us an impact player or adios muchacho.
Wrong! McGenius job has never been safer. Vivek may be a nusiance but he’s not stupid. Queta is a feather in his cap. Bogi and his underwhelming play this season, aligned with reasonable concerns before he was allowed to walk, is a feather in his cap. Old Man is not, but I suspect he never claimed coaching decisions to be a speciality. He has a keen eye for talent on the floor, maybe not so much off the floor.
The only criticism I have of this GM is he should have hired Doug or B-Jax. I was adamant about this before Fluke was fired, NOT to give the Old Man a final futile hoorah. This decision looks worse now since it is apparent there is little to NO difference between the Interim and his predecessor. This is the primary and the only mistake this GM made. Nothing else he has done or tried to do so far gives me real pause for consternation, and this should give fans confidence as we head towards the deadline.
If and when a trade is announced, it is going to be good to great. I have NO doubt of this. 🙂
Fox for Simmons.
I disagree only about hiring DC or Jackson. I want McNair to finally choose the person he actually wants to be head coach.
So much truth about Bobo, his hard limitations, his fragility, his inferiority to Haliburton, just all of it. His cost and complete redundancy with this roster would have considerably worsened the current situation, on the court, and on the cap. It would have been nice had the deal for DiVincenzo gone through, but regardless, I’m happy that he isn’t our problem.
He chose Luke. He also said the roster was in a good place and believed they were a playoff team.
And the Iraqis chose Saddam.
And for the fifteenth time, what do you expect him to say about the roster other than to stick with the positives? There are plenty of bad teams out there. Are you hearing a lot of GMs shitting on the players?
Remind me again, when did McNair hire Walton? If your boss tells you that you can’t fire one of your subordinates, it’s your feeling that that would equate to your choosing to keep this person?
The team should go with a grey color scheme so the Kings fans can learn that the world isn’t black and white.
I expect him to be held responsible for the things he said, just like anybody else. Also, I’d love to have your window into the all the secret, conspiratorial ongoings of this front office. You must have friends in high places.
Funny, I hadn’t noticed many people being held responsible for what they say. And if you can’t recognize a hostage video when you see one, that seems consistent with the willful blindness that has become the cover charge for Kings fans.
And there’s no secret information that I’m aware of. I’m making logical inferences based on circumstances, mainly related to how ownership has meddled in the basketball operations. McNair didn’t hire Walton, but if he wasn’t free to fire him, he says exactly what he said, and you know that.
Keep changing the subject, though!
I’d rather have Bogi for his price than Buddy for his. Having said that I would not have paid Bogi what Atlanta did. GM’s should however know before hand if they want to pay a player what they’ll be asking and if the answer is no, trade him and get something for him before his contract expires.
Perhaps trade Bogi to Milwaukee for DiVincenzo? Something like that? And then just hope your player isn’t a snake that reneges on the deal?
Good points about Bogi, but I’ve generally been saying that since McNair chose not to match (and it was his choice I’m sure).
I’ll somewhat agree and disagree about DC13 and B Jax, but that’s only because I’m not convinced they are the right hires because of the way this ownership group operates. Vivek Ranadive, and other owners, aren’t just a hindrance, they are an outright obstacle to improving this team. Sometimes, anyway.
The biggest obstacle to improving this team was that Vlade Divac had too much control for too long and badly mismanaged a lot of things that have set this franchise a ways back. It takes time to fix those things.
Top Five MPG players on the 35 win 2019 Kings:
Top Five MPG players on the 32 win (projected) 2022 Kings:
This is not progress, and yeah, that’s Vlade’s team.
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